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Wow... What the f*** was all the hype about?
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Toon Town looks mighty easy.
Ok, so WoW may be easy.
*What Im going to say next is my opinion*
You have 2 choices. Something like EQ2 (A failure in certain regards), or something like WoW. What would you as the designer of a game who wants to do a nice game but also make money, do?
I remember a discussion here by some writer saying why WoW was successful. He pointed out easy to play, easy on graphics as 2 main things. As obvious as it may seem, it's very true and people dont seem to see it sometimes.
IF, I will repeat, IF what some people are saying is true Vanguard is a game that will challenge most PCs out there and may be a bit "hard-core" to a good number of casual players who just enjoy logging on doing some quests and logging off. If that's the case, then they never learned from EQ2 and may face the same fate. It's very important, IMO, for a game to have success you must make it accesible to everyone. That is one of the major reasons WoW is what it is. But it also provides the long tedious raids for the hard core gamers.
Before anyone starts flaming I will say 2 things: #1-No I have not played the beta. So pelase do note that I have mentioned "If what people are saying si correct".and such because Im basing my opinions on what I read on certain websites.
#2-Kind of linked to #1, but Im basing my opinion on how hard the game may be by the plenty of questions Ive seen on different forums including Vanguards own, where people are having difficulties with the crafting and dont understand how things are done.
I will say this though. No matter what Ive said, I really am interested in this game b/c of the new ideas it has to offer. I beleive I *should* be able to run the game with my PC (or otherwise I would be pretty dissapointed and sorry for the company for making such a game) and I have some experience to try and understand the game. But I know a good % of the fan/customer base cant. And that will eventually hurt them in sales and player base a few months down the road. I'll try this game out.
I blog for GamingWeez. Do you? Discuss everything MMO related in a community that lets YOU be the blogger. www.GamingWeez.com
Lets make a correction here. 8 million people do not play and like WoW. The correct way to put this is, 7-8 million have played it at one time or other and but not all have liked the game. This would be a better and truthful way of putting it and this is if that figure is true to begin with.
Come to think of it, WoW's constant favorite quote of always saying 7-8 million customers is not necessarily true though. That's just a figure Blizzard always puts out but how much of that is really true?
Haha, So you have been playing EQ2 in 2004 ?
Most of the things that was in beta 2004 is only a vague memory, the game is nothing of it's former beta version..Most if not all areas has changed ..you even have a set of "new" and alternative players models if the current ones doesn't suit you..
So go ahead and try the game...again 2 years later..Im sure I will try Vanguard at a later date, when it's ready aswell..
/Thark
World of Warcraft subscribers include individuals who have paid a subscription fee or have an active prepaid card to play World of Warcraft, as well as those who have purchased the game and are within their free month of access. Internet Game Room players who have accessed the game over the last thirty days are also counted as subscribers. The above definition excludes all players under free promotional subscriptions, expired or cancelled subscriptions, and expired prepaid cards. Subscribers in licensees’ territories are defined along the same rules.
Is it really that hard to understand?
Why would a successful company tamper with their financial accounts for shareholders?
Correction, their flying mounts are everywhere now.
Auto Assault died from that, just as an example... an innovative game, plenty of content, but little advertising, badly done trial access, and not enough word-to-mouth propaganda due to low exposure. Those who liked the game, who knew about it, soon found out there were too few players actually playing it. Now, no matter how good a MMO is, it fails as single player game, and without a minimum number of other players, its not fun even to those who love the game itself.
I believe the current drop in popularity, and the bad press Vanguard is getting, are doing more than just keeping money somewhere else, instead of on Sigils bank account: They threaten the fun and success of playing Vanguard for those dying to play it, who love it, those who looked forward to an old-style MMO, a revived 1st gen, for years.
Because no matter how good the game is, if the community isnt able to populate the vast landscape, to make grouping possible, to create a player market etc. etc., then even the most avid fans among us will find it lacking, and not fun to play. MMORPGs live by their community, and I can see the point of a fan trying to praise Vanguard beyond the realistic to counteract the spreading bad press, so that he doesnt end up having to shelf the game not for being a bad game, but for having a bad, or too small to be practical, community.
Lets not fool ourselves, Vanguard will be a niche game, relatively speaking. It wont ever have multiple servers populated with thousands of people. It doesnt need that to be fun, mind you. But the niche has to be big enough to get a working community that actually fills the game world. With a size this huge, and the grouping and raiding focus, you really need a large number of hardcore players to get it alive.
thats nothing Sigil can design.
Hey Ratzor, You wrote WoW 's Subsciber Definition but what exactly does that prove? Not much, that's them saying who the subscribers are and nothing much about anything else. That doesn't prove they in fact have 8 million on board now.
Wow puts these figures out and you have no choice but to believe them because you can't prove them wrong. And even if it's true which I doubt, this would then be a figure of players who have played it at one time or another. Does anyone really believe they have 8 million on there playing now? Please!!!
yes, WoW has had a large number of people who have played it at one time or other but that's mainly because it reaches out to many places around the world unlike most games and naturally there will be more people trying it. But this only means just that and not that it's a whale of a game, it's not. I do admit it's a bit better then most of the games of it's kind but Vanguard if it reaches out to as many places might soon over throw the supposedly king of this type of game. Vanguard has things most people in WoW wish they had, just give it adequate time to get going.
No one can deny that other then SoE, which is a company, Warcraft is the most disliked game in the gaming world, hence all the negative constanly written threads.
Edit: This isn't trolling, this is an opinion from a on-line vet who has been there, done that, WoW included. My opinon, your opinion, their opinions.
Well, who can deny WoW is a cesspool for kids.
Sololoco,
WoW is the most disliked game by the people who POST on forums, because they got bored with the game and going trough mmo withdrawl. Most people who play and enjoy it, dont bother trolling on forums and wasting even more useless time online.
It might be the most hated game on these forums, it might not be the best game around, but it is still the most popular.
However I don't have any reason to believe they are lying about subscription numbers. They have 200+ servers in US, about the same in EU, and not sure how many in Asia, but I'd imagine It'll be a large number. They say specifically where the subscribers are from, and it all ties up with the number they give in each area. Also the rate at which they add more servers is also pretty constant which ties up with a growing population. I personally don't have any reasons for believing they are lying.
I mean... everyone played Warcraft at some proint (hell, i have war 1 on floppy). It's normal that one of the most popular series of game (warcraft) attract TONS of people in a MMO with the warcraft settings.
No matter HOW BAD the game is, people will dig it becase MOST of em dig warcraft.
eqnext.wikia.com
1) Real-world Player housing
2) Player controlled flying mounts
3) Combat on mounts
4) Player-built & controlled ships
5) Fellowship system
6) Caravan system
7) Crafting system
8) Character creation system
9) Unique class abilities (Necro's Abom. & Druid's weather spells for instance)
10) The size of the world!
But yeah, except for all those things and the many more which could be listed. It's EXACTLY the same.
Didnt DnL promise those things also?
"How Bad" the game is? Be realistic. One can argue many things about WoW. But you cannot say it's a "Bad" game. thats just trolling trolling trolling. Or you are just so close minded that you cannot see whats in front of your eyes.
You listen to some music that is not your favorite. Say, for example, Country Music. But the song is actually pretty catchy and good. Even though you dont really like it.. can you say it's BAD song? If you have any idea about music, then the answer is no.
You must be able to be truthful for your opinions to be taken into account. Whether you LIKE somrthing or if that something IS GOOD are 2 COMPLETELY DIFFERENT things.
Want your opinions taken seriously? Accept that the game is good. Then say "I dont like it because of [Insert many reasons here]"
Point #2: Even though World of Warcraft had a big following coming from the whole warcraft RTS series, doesnt mean much. A game must be good in order to survive with a good number of millions of people playing. I know 7 RL family/friends who picked up WoW having asbolutely NO idea what Warcraft was and enjoy the game anyway.
I blog for GamingWeez. Do you? Discuss everything MMO related in a community that lets YOU be the blogger. www.GamingWeez.com
Vanguard is overhyped way too overrated even before its release. And the things people are listing here as revolutionery or different are also promised in many other upcoming MMO"s..hell Conan promises all this and even better stuff but who knows whats going to happen when that game releases. I am not going to buy hype this time. I have bitten twice badly now by DNL and Vanguard.
A MMO can't be successful if it caters to needs and interest to selected few. The reason why WOW is so successful is because it has something to offer to everyone..young or old. Look at the state of RYZOM. Its hardly making money and recently Gameforge took over it to save it from dying. More people means more money and long life of a game.
Amazing thing is that people still saying its just a BETA so things will improve. For God's sake its only 14 days away from release. It can't get any bad then this. EQ-2, GW and COH had a lot better content when launched. In my opinion buy this game and play it. Because more and more people should check this overhyped sorry excuse of MMO on there own and decide.
And dragonace the reason why i didn't come back with a detailed reply is because i am still playing BETA. The moment i am done with it, i will give you reasons why this game is bad and nothing revolutionery like SOE and its fans claimed it to be.
If you like the game then you will play it. If you dont like the game then why linger here or other places and just bad mouth it ? What purpose are you serving ? How are you helping move things forward ?
So what if the game got Over hyped by the Devs. You expect them to put out bad press ? I can see it now " Don't Play Vanguard it is imcomplete and we promised to much, we suggest playing other MMOS like WoW or EQ2 since our vision sucks and so does our game"
You think they should be release this instead of Talking up there game they have worked so hard on ?
I think its Called Taking pride in your work. I know in this day in age taking pride in your achievements is anathema to the standard way of thinking. I guess we all need to punish ourselves instead for being good at something.
Its not about creating hype.. it's about saying things which doesn't exist. Horrible animation, poor game performance, generic quests, crafting which is no better then crafting in EQ-2 and RYZOM, repetitve gameplay and many other reasons which proves that its nothing revolutionery. I have been closely following this game since it was announced and the way SOE marketed it was meant to be JESUS himself packed in a shiny box.
there is difference between good and bad hype. If SOE is really going to open its big mouth to market this game then they should also back it up with that amount of content.
I've pretty much told anyone who asked that vanguard to ME feels more like the successor to EQ1 than EQ2 does... eq2 is really a wholly different game that isn't related to EQ1 in any way shape or form.
Shadus
i'm a sinner plz someone execute i mean wtf is wrong with some ppl
Eye of twilight give us sight take our offer give as might make our power tears of night.
I'm new around here, and thought I might as well jump into the fire pit, just for some fun!
I am and Avvid EQ2 player, and played WOW on and off over the years. Both are great games. WOW always would lose my interest but I can tell its a very well made game so I dont bash it. EQ2 expecially with the new expansion, race, and an entire new world that can take you from level 1-70 is amazing and made the game fresh again. EQ2 has come out with a ton of new content which is making the game world HUGE.
I played Vanguard in closed beta, wasnt very impressed. I then have since played it in open beta hoping for some changes that improved many of the aspects and problems I had with the closed version. To me from the character models, spell effects, environment, everything is bland and last gen. I dont see any improvement over WOW or EQ2 in the graphical and model department. And yes I have a nice system, had everything turned up or maxed. So I played almost every class and gave the game a chance anyways. I mean the hype has been so intense it got me so excited initially and was hoping for the "next" big thing. Maybe Vanguard isnt horrible? Although just the fact they didnt make a leap forward to me kills it. I still am very dissapointed with the overall game. I however have not tried the crafting system, but I'm not much of a crafter and that wouldnt keep me in the game and throwing my monthly fee at this instead of EQ2. I know this thread is now a fire pit of flame, which is silly. Everyone has the right to their opinions and shouldnt be attacked on everything. But its the mmorpg community, cant expect much more intel then that. But I just had to throw my two cents in. This game will have some subscriber based out of pure boardom with whats out on the market, other then that It will die out, expecially with the next wave of promising mmorpgs coming this year.
~Citron~
Haha, So you have been playing EQ2 in 2004 ?
Most of the things that was in beta 2004 is only a vague memory, the game is nothing of it's former beta version..Most if not all areas has changed ..you even have a set of "new" and alternative players models if the current ones doesn't suit you..
So go ahead and try the game...again 2 years later..Im sure I will try Vanguard at a later date, when it's ready aswell..
/Thark
Ya unfortunately..I played EQ2's Beta and pre ordered the game in August. Since SOE first announced EQ2 was in the works baaaaack in what,,2001? I couldn't wait to try it..I followed EQ 2 for years believing it will be even greater than EQ Live.. At release,I only played the game until January 2005 cause I was a Evercrack 2 Junkie lol..But,your right,that game was incredibly broke and flat out horrible..
I tried getting back into it around October of 2005,but It still felt the same to me.From time to time,I'll read the current news and find myself checking out the new content..One thing I admit,EQ2's raid content and lore is still pretty cool to check out.. Maybe If Vanguard wasn't going live in a couple weeks,I'd give EQ2 another try..But personally,I believe VG will surpass EQ2 even at launch.. People have to admit something.. EQ 2 at launch was a disgrace,an embarrassment,a huge pile of bleeehhh..At least Vanguard has a decent class system,good quest system,and you have many different starting areas,not just two like in EQ2...
People who's been hating on VG only played up to level 10 max..They expect the game to jump out and grab them early on,simply because of all the hype surrounding it..What they need to realize is,It's still in Beta an these ppl are experiencing the "early nub levels" It gets so much better after level 12 and personally things don't really start rolling until around level 20,"just like in every other MMO"
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
1) Real-world Player housing
2) Player controlled flying mounts
3) Combat on mounts
4) Player-built & controlled ships
5) Fellowship system
6) Caravan system
7) Crafting system
8) Character creation system
9) Unique class abilities (Necro's Abom. & Druid's weather spells for instance)
10) The size of the world!
So, Getalife; what things DON'T exist? You keep wanting to compare Vanguard to DNL, since your earlier comparisons didn't stick when I pointed out the DIFFERENCES in Vanguard. So, now you're on this crusade to get it linked to DNL.