If only to help the polar bears. I saw on animal planet that the polar icecap might melt and the polar bears could be extinct in the next 10-20 years. Save the polar bears
Originally posted by xpyrofuryx The earth goes through stages. global warming is not happeneing!
i heard that too, christ i actually agree with you about something. but on the other hand can we honestly stand here and say that we are not contributing to the effect when we are pumping so much crap into the atmosphere ??
The question is not whether we are contributing to it, but whether we can afford to stop contributing to it.
I snipped the remainder of your post because it was all based on this opening strawman and therefor of no interest or use to anyone.
No one is suggesting we completely stop pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere either immediately or ever, what is being suggested is that we control and limit these emissions.
@Baff First off we're not all hippies, I eat cows, I hit back, the people you're talking about, ecoterrorists, number in the hundreds at best and are largely ignored as insane by most reasonable people, they're only used as an example to bolster the propaganda you're being spoon fed.
Secondly maybe you should go look for facts before you post, here's a little place in Maine that's been on the web for a while. They use solar energy, which, by the way, the electric companies have to by law buy any excess energy back from the user. They use what they need and export the excess, it balances out to where they have paid no electric bills for a few years now.
New technology is always expensive to begin with. The first users get soaked for development costs until the tech catches on and more people buy it. New technology also doesn't work the best it can until more research is put into it, something that alternatives have been doing for quite a number of years now. Your information may have been correct in, oh say, the early 1980's but time, and technology, has progressed.
As to being crushed by a lorry, there's also new technology being tested that will prevent crashes by electronically forcing the car to keep a set distance from other vehicles.
Energy, on either end, is big business. Coal and the whaling industries fought against gas and oil tooth and nail, people fought against that "dangerous" electricity too, even warring over AC or DC (Edison wanted DC and even went as far as suggesting AC as a form of execution, the electric chair, in hopes that it would scare people away from AC).
Now we have a more high tech, and savvy type of propaganda going on. Oil and gas are fighting to keep control of world energy, even lining up with coal, extracting oil from coal. Even the electric companies are fighting it, do you really think they want to pay you for electricity you generate?
Oh and btw, if as you say, the waters rise it'll be far more than just coasts, most of the earths growing lands are flatlands, areas that will be well below any substantial rise in water and will wipe out all that nice food you enjoy eating every day, as to your U.K. maybe the people in the highlands will be ok but maybe you should check your own elevation before you condemn everyone else... Have fun treading water, shark bait.
Nice to see you're admiting your ignorance by not replying to my previous reply.
But I'll try to be polite and point out some flaws in your (lack off) reasoning.
I'll also try to intriduce a nice novelty: facts. Don't be startled as they sometimes may cause harm, but nothing denyal won't easily fix.
First of all, I was surprised to see you live in the UK. After all, it's the home of the influential and respected Stern Review.
Of course science can creat energy from "nothing". Mankind has been doing so for thousands of years. Or did you think (think... hahaha) that mills used to work on burning trees or something? Not at all.
You seem to think that photovoltaic (or the countless other ways to harnest solar energy) haven't evolved since... The twenties...
A bit arrogant and of course completely wrong.
A 1kW instalation will be able to produce about half of the energy daily consumed by the average family, on a normal day under normal light conditions (you of course knew that photovoltaic cells mainly operate on light, not on direct solar light) and in the average western European country.
If you were wondering, these instalations aren't manufactered by hippie communities but by large corporations (such as BP).
And "those little wind mills" produce a quarter of Denmark's energy, Globally, wind power generation more than quadrupled between 1999 and 2005.
The cost of wind-generated electric power has dropped substantially. Since 2004, according to some sources, the price in the United States is now lower than the cost of fuel-generated electric power, even without taking externalities into account. In 2005, wind energy cost one-fifth as much as it did in the late 1990s, and that downward trend is expected to continue as larger multi-megawatt turbines are mass-produced.A British Wind Energy Association report gives an average generation cost of onshore wind power of around 3.2 pence per kilowatt hour.Wind power is growing quickly, at about 38% in 2003,up from 25% growth in 2002. In the United States, as of 2003, wind power was the fastest growing form of electricity generation on a percentage basis.
Yes, those windmills are "expensive" but are low-cost on maintanance. Of course the life-span of a windmill will easily negate the negative effects of its production (which would be non-existent in a completely green economy).
Your comments on glass (and iron ore in WW2, which doesnt makes sense since anyone can name examples of recycling efforts in those days that DID work out) are unfunded and should be disproven.
Why do you asume electric cars are underpowered compared to fossil fuel fueled cars? That's a bit absurd considering many of the high yeld electric engines in our daily lives are using electricity. Why not? They're more silent, they have 98% energy conversion efficiency, are just as powerful as other cars, and despite their slightly higher purchasing price they are cheaper in maintanance and fueling.
Green oil? Is that how would-be rednecks are calling it these days? I hope you do know that according to EU laws most of the diesel has to be mixed with bio-diesel? Nah, you don't.
Wind farms are more efficient than fossil fuel based plants, with ease. So if I understand you correctly you would rather have the world cling to a nearly depleted, highly inefficient, highly dangerous, hard to come by (*cough* Iraq *cough*), and polluting energy source than have home-grown, efficient, undepletable, constantly evolving and easy-to)come-by energy?
Good luck defending that to your kids. Any of them have astma or alergies?
So please wake up. Smell the coffee and realize that you as a human being have the responsability to protect your species. Also...
It's gonna happen anyways, whether you like it or not.
Sorry I havem't had time to read your previous reply. No need to take offense.
1k w Solar array will provide half the daily usuage for the average family?
It takes 5 KW to boil a kettle. Come on mate, this really is elementry physics. They teach this here to kids aged 13. I know you really want this to be true, we all do, but it just isn't. You have to face up to things as they are.
Astma and allergies are not caused by Global warming.
I'm fully aware that green oil can be mixed with diesal. The Germans used this extensively in WW2 after they lost ehir oil fileds. It is however an expensibe way of doing it.
When oil really is nearlly depleted market forces will raise the price to such a level that green oil is economically preferable. No government legislation is required.
There are no electric cars as powerful as my car. None with the same range. I very much doubt the fuel is cheaper either.
What were all these successful recycling projects in WW2 that anyone can name? I'm not sure what they would disprove exactly, nut since "anyone" being able to name one doesn't seem to include you, your point is moot. Thaks for your recycled glass link to Wiki, my father was a glass recycler as was his father before him. I'm familiar with the process.
Wind farms are not more efficient than fossil fuel. That's why Wind Energy is more expensive than fossil fuel created energy. If it was more efficient it would cost less, not more. Welcome to reality. Wind farm invest factors the shelf life and mainteance costs already. Utterly laughable that you should think this has not been factored into the price from the beginning.
The money to buy these things is lent by a bank. A business plan for repayment and profits factored into the repayment scheme and the overall price of the energy depends on this. They don't just build million pounds worth of equipment and and pray it pays for itself in the long run.
i would just like to point out that windmills are not really a reliable way to produce energy. Sure you can use them to produce energy to warm your house or whatever, but in a large scale windmills are next to uselss. Wind is an uncontrolled energy resource, it blows when it wants and when it doesnt blow, you need other ways to compensate the missing energy in the grid. Statistically, minimum wind occurs on colder days and when its cold you need the most energy.
Nice to see you're admiting your ignorance by not replying to my previous reply.
But I'll try to be polite and point out some flaws in your (lack off) reasoning.
I'll also try to intriduce a nice novelty: facts. Don't be startled as they sometimes may cause harm, but nothing denyal won't easily fix.
First of all, I was surprised to see you live in the UK. After all, it's the home of the influential and respected Stern Review.
Of course science can creat energy from "nothing". Mankind has been doing so for thousands of years. Or did you think (think... hahaha) that mills used to work on burning trees or something? Not at all.
You seem to think that photovoltaic (or the countless other ways to harnest solar energy) haven't evolved since... The twenties...
A bit arrogant and of course completely wrong.
A 1kW instalation will be able to produce about half of the energy daily consumed by the average family, on a normal day under normal light conditions (you of course knew that photovoltaic cells mainly operate on light, not on direct solar light) and in the average western European country.
If you were wondering, these instalations aren't manufactered by hippie communities but by large corporations (such as BP).
And "those little wind mills" produce a quarter of Denmark's energy, Globally, wind power generation more than quadrupled between 1999 and 2005.
The cost of wind-generated electric power has dropped substantially. Since 2004, according to some sources, the price in the United States is now lower than the cost of fuel-generated electric power, even without taking externalities into account. In 2005, wind energy cost one-fifth as much as it did in the late 1990s, and that downward trend is expected to continue as larger multi-megawatt turbines are mass-produced.A British Wind Energy Association report gives an average generation cost of onshore wind power of around 3.2 pence per kilowatt hour.Wind power is growing quickly, at about 38% in 2003,up from 25% growth in 2002. In the United States, as of 2003, wind power was the fastest growing form of electricity generation on a percentage basis.
Yes, those windmills are "expensive" but are low-cost on maintanance. Of course the life-span of a windmill will easily negate the negative effects of its production (which would be non-existent in a completely green economy).
Your comments on glass (and iron ore in WW2, which doesnt makes sense since anyone can name examples of recycling efforts in those days that DID work out) are unfunded and should be disproven.
Why do you asume electric cars are underpowered compared to fossil fuel fueled cars? That's a bit absurd considering many of the high yeld electric engines in our daily lives are using electricity. Why not? They're more silent, they have 98% energy conversion efficiency, are just as powerful as other cars, and despite their slightly higher purchasing price they are cheaper in maintanance and fueling.
Green oil? Is that how would-be rednecks are calling it these days? I hope you do know that according to EU laws most of the diesel has to be mixed with bio-diesel? Nah, you don't.
Wind farms are more efficient than fossil fuel based plants, with ease. So if I understand you correctly you would rather have the world cling to a nearly depleted, highly inefficient, highly dangerous, hard to come by (*cough* Iraq *cough*), and polluting energy source than have home-grown, efficient, undepletable, constantly evolving and easy-to)come-by energy?
Good luck defending that to your kids. Any of them have astma or alergies?
So please wake up. Smell the coffee and realize that you as a human being have the responsability to protect your species. Also...
It's gonna happen anyways, whether you like it or not.
Sorry I havem't had time to read your previous reply. No need to take offense.
1k Solar panels provide half the daily usuage for the average family? It takes 2-5 KW to boil a kettle. Stop talking nonsense.
Ugly site, interesting facts. Question 7's answer is also very interesting. Apparently I forgot a zero there. And I hope you don't use electricity for things like boiling water. Gas is much cheaper.
Astma and allergies are not caused by Global warming.
True. But they're greatly helped by pollution.
I'm fully aware that green oil can be mixed with diesal. The Germans used this extensively in WW2 after they lost ehir oil fileds. It is however an expensibe way of doing it.
And about 1,25% (in 2010 5,75% )of the diesel you use (wait... I know this is true on the continent, dunno about UK for sure) is biodiesel. I think we're talking about a different kind of diesel since this article doesn't mention extensive use in WW2. Note that I'm not saying that biodiesel is a sollution for our energy problem.
When oil really is nearlly depleted market forces will raise the price to such a level that green oil is economically preferable. No government legislation is required.
Thinking ahead and anticipating however is. I think it can only be beneficial to us all if we try to tackle the energy problem BEFORE driving accros the country will cost more than the car itself.
There are no electric cars as powerful as my car. None with the same range. I very much doubt the fuel is cheaper either.
True, there is little reason to develop powerful electric cars, tho the technology is there. The fuel IS cheaper:
Electric vehicles typically cost between two and four cents per mile to operate, while gasoline-powered ICE vehicles currently cost about four to six times as much.[5]
The total cost of ownership for modern BEVs depends primarily on the cost of the batteries, the type and capacity of which determine several factors such as travel range, top speed, battery lifetime and recharging time; several trade-offs exist.
I wonder why one would need more power than the average electric car produces. As it is proven that the "power" of a car does far little to the safety of the car than let's say... The shape of the car does.
What were all these successful recycling projects in WW2 that anyone can name? I'm not sure what they would disprove exactly, nut since "anyone" being able to name one doesn't seem to include you, your point is moot. Thaks for your recycled glass link to Wiki, my father was a glass recycler as was his father before him. I'm familiar with the process. The first project that springs to mind is the collection of nylon. I wasn't sure what you mentioning a WW2 recycling initiative would prove in the first place.
Wind farms are not more efficient than fossil fuel. That's why Wind Energy is more expensive than fossil fuel created energy. If it was more efficient it would cost less, not more. Welcome to reality. Wind farm invest factors the shelf life and mainteance costs already. Utterly laughable that you should think this has not been factored into the price from the beginning. A recent report states: "Further, there is evidence that with new equipment designs and proper plant engineering, system stability in response to a major plant or line outage can actually be improved by the addition of wind generation." Various countries have proven that wind energy can be a sizeable adition to the national output, without directly redusing the cost and the efficiency. Other research is being conducted in tidal power. Namely the UK progresses greatly in this branch of green energy. Especially the low running cost is interesting.
The money to buy these things is lent by a bank. A business plan for repayment and profits factored into the repayment scheme and the overall price of the energy depends on this. They don't just build million pounds worth of equipment and and pray it pays for itself in the long run.
So you admit it's possible to do this, with a 100% repayment over the long term.
I think it's clear that no "green" energy can provide 100% energy independence. I wonder if anyone would really want to be dependant on one source for energy. Thanks to the rising oil price many corporations are putting considerable resources in the develoment of alternatives for fossil fuels and nuclear power (which is actually reasonably safe, cheap and clean). Thus a market is created where competition is fierce, creating a good price climate (together with government incentives) for civilians to buy solar/wind/whatever power instalations.
You can forget linking me to facts, I suggest you try and understand that 1kw will not power a 5kw kettle. No amount of links will change this. Please don't try and convince me either you or the average family has a gas kettle.
Not that burning fossil fuels as a preference to solar powered electricity in anyway supports your argument.
My comparison to the WW2 government initiative to recycle iron is a demonstration that these kind of initiatives are not necessarily practical or useful in anyway.
Various countries have proven that wind energy can be a sizeable adition to the national output, without directly redusing the cost and the efficiency.
Exactly it doesn't reduce the cost. It increases it. It is inefficient.
Air pollution. CO2 might not cause alergies or stma or other lung diseases, but many of the other by-products of burning fossil fuels do.
In stead of just dismissing my links, provide some of your own. From unbiased sources please. Thanks.
I use gas, and so does the large majority of the people I know.
I fail to see how one example of recycling being a watse of time and money will say something about all those initiatives. I fail to see what recycling has to do with this discussion.
My car is clean, and your solar panels providing any serious amount of home electricity are a joke. It would take over 20 years for them to pay for the cost of installation.
0.00000 on the emissions test as usual. My car is clean, and your solar panels are a joke.
It's not my solar pannels. They're solar pannels widely accepted in dozens of countries and contantly built in energy efficient housing and buildings. Or are you saying that corporations (the saviours of mankind) aren't able to produce fairly cheap and competative altrenatives for burning fossil fuels?
You can forget linking me to facts, I suggest you try and understand that 1kw will not power a 5kw kettle. No amount of links will change this. Please don't try and convince me either you or the average family has a gas kettle.
Everyone, please stop trying to confuse him with facts! He simply isnt interested in knowing that hes been heating water with an Arc welder!
You can forget linking me to facts, I suggest you try and understand that 1kw will not power a 5kw kettle. No amount of links will change this. Please don't try and convince me either you or the average family has a gas kettle.
Everyone, please stop trying to confuse him with facts! He simply isn’t interested in knowing that he’s been heating water with an Arc welder!
He's right about the kettle thingy. I simply mistyped something.
I think I know how to fix it now. This has worked before too. I think the solution is.........................................................................................................................................
It's not my solar pannels. They're solar pannels widely accepted in dozens of countries and contantly built in energy efficient housing and buildings. Or are you saying that corporations (the saviours of mankind) aren't able to produce fairly cheap and competative altrenatives for burning fossil fuels?
Widely accepted by muppets who will buy into any old pipe dream.
And yes, I am saying that big corporations aren't able to produce a competative alternative to fossil fuels. Currently there isn't one. Nuclear and renewable energy sources are all subsidised and more expensive. Private energy companies are not investing in these without government intervention. It just isn't as profitable as other investments that can be made with the same money.
The thing about big corporations, is that the people who run them aren't stupid. They don't need to win votes or bow to whatever fads are currently in fashion. They earn up to hundreds of times more money than our politicians because they get things right.
Biased sources?You're the one with all the dodgey links, Mad. I haven't offered you a single one, the bulk of the opinion I have been offering you in this thread has been based on my own personal experience.
Why don't you go down to your local D.I.Y. shop and see how much they cost. Calculate how much electricity they generate and how much that same electricity costs to buy the good old fashioned way. You can keeping linking away to any old thing that supports your imagination here on the internet, but there is no substitute for working it out for yourself.
Do you have solar panels on your house? Do you believe in what you preach enough to actually practice it, or when push comes to shove are you one of those types who talks a good fight but always has some poor excuse as to why they themselves haven't done anything about it?
I don't have a lot of faith in people who just talk the talk.
I can see why you wouldn't want to look at links to facts, they contradict your outdated absurd notions, like the link to solarhouse where they power the entire house with solar energy and pay $0 for electricity. Heavens forbid you should look and see that you're wrong.
So you're also saying that the UK government (and partly the EU) are funding massive reforms that will cost trillions on a simple movie? Yes, sure. Wow, you're making yourself look really smart.
Am I the only EU/UK resident here that sounds EXACTLY like something our collective governments would do?... Frankly, there's no debate here in the UK about whether or not Global Warming is an issue, because the government have been forcing it down our throats since primary school for years... I got sent to my head of sixth form about arguing with 'the facts' again over it (he's the same prick who won't let me consider that we've been lied to somewhat about the Holocaust... But that being the same prick who thinks we should interpret "all of history with a pinch of salt, because facts will always get misconstrued by the victor.").
And lol@ the reforms costing trillions... Dream on... Our annual budget doesn't even reach that! Hahaha!
Oh, and if you want a decent thing to look up that counters Global Warming... Check out the Gaia Hypothesis. As I read more books on it I'm more convinced by it...
So you're also saying that the UK government (and partly the EU) are funding massive reforms that will cost trillions on a simple movie? Yes, sure. Wow, you're making yourself look really smart.
Am I the only EU/UK resident here that sounds EXACTLY like something our collective governments would do?... Frankly, there's no debate here in the UK about whether or not Global Warming is an issue, because the government have been forcing it down our throats since primary school for years... I got sent to my head of sixth form about arguing with 'the facts' again over it (he's the same prick who won't let me consider that we've been lied to somewhat about the Holocaust... But that being the same prick who thinks we should interpret "all of history with a pinch of salt, because facts will always get misconstrued by the victor.").
And lol@ the reforms costing trillions... Dream on... Our annual budget doesn't even reach that! Hahaha!
Oh, and if you want a decent thing to look up that counters Global Warming... Check out the Gaia Hypothesis. As I read more books on it I'm more convinced by it...
Congratulations!!! You've just won the "Biggest Idiot of the Forum" award
You can forget linking me to facts, I suggest you try and understand that 1kw will not power a 5kw kettle. No amount of links will change this. Please don't try and convince me either you or the average family has a gas kettle.
Everyone, please stop trying to confuse him with facts! He simply isnt interested in knowing that hes been heating water with an Arc welder!
He's right about the kettle thingy. I simply mistyped something.
A kettle uses about 0.25kW. You cant even get 5kW without a specialized industrial outlet and heavy duty wiring.
So you're also saying that the UK government (and partly the EU) are funding massive reforms that will cost trillions on a simple movie? Yes, sure. Wow, you're making yourself look really smart.
Am I the only EU/UK resident here that sounds EXACTLY like something our collective governments would do?... Frankly, there's no debate here in the UK about whether or not Global Warming is an issue, because the government have been forcing it down our throats since primary school for years... I got sent to my head of sixth form about arguing with 'the facts' again over it (he's the same prick who won't let me consider that we've been lied to somewhat about the Holocaust... But that being the same prick who thinks we should interpret "all of history with a pinch of salt, because facts will always get misconstrued by the victor.").
And lol@ the reforms costing trillions... Dream on... Our annual budget doesn't even reach that! Hahaha!
Oh, and if you want a decent thing to look up that counters Global Warming... Check out the Gaia Hypothesis. As I read more books on it I'm more convinced by it...
Congratulations!!! You've just won the "Biggest Idiot of the Forum" award
I can see why you wouldn't want to look at links to facts, they contradict your outdated absurd notions, like the link to solarhouse where they power the entire house with solar energy and pay $0 for electricity. Heavens forbid you should look and see that you're wrong.
Saying personal opinions aren't biased is absurd. Those are PERSONAL opinions so they are de facto subjective. Especially if you only base them on your own experiences (which are bound to be limited).
I feel no need to boast planting trees to counter all the world's ecological and economical problems.
I myself do my things to ue energy conciously. But that's not even the issue. I simply do it fo the money. I'm convinced that all the damage done by nature will be irreversible for the coming few hundred years.
So we should focus on damage control and getting rid of that fucking fossil fuel crap which dictates our foreign policies and bankrupts our future.
It seems you are the one unable to adapt or unable to think outside the box. A little rusty are we?
BTW, nuclear power IS cheaper than fossil fueled power and it's NOT motivated by the government with hard cash. Simple as that. You prove once again you have little idea what you're talking about.
Well why don't you tell me then?... I'm fairly sure that after 5 books read and numerous papers written on the subject, I've got a vague idea what I'm talking about. If you wanna dispute that, that's your right, but I'd love to hear your opinions on Gaia Theory before you pass judgement on mine (which you've not even heard yet.).
I'm assuming you meet my mention of the subject with such hostility because you either follow Margulis' theories on it, or because you have interpretted it to mean that we should not be trying to upset the homeostatic state the planet is in. If it's the latter, you're an idiot, because you should know that if something is in homeostatis, anything external condition applied to it will be met with a balancing force to negate any effects. If it's the former, and you believe the planet to be in a homeorhetic state, such that we could speed up any changes that would soon occur regardless, then obviously that is your opinion and mine differs.
Just to give you a tiny bit of the information I base my opinions relating to GT on; there is already substancial evidence to suggest that large areas of ocean are experiencing algal blooms already, which will act to counter the CO2 being emitted to the atmosphere at the moment. The planet will self regulate to keep us alive regardless of whether I drive a Prius+ or a Hummer.
Comments
If only to help the polar bears. I saw on animal planet that the polar icecap might melt and the polar bears could be extinct in the next 10-20 years.
Save the polar bears
I snipped the remainder of your post because it was all based on this opening strawman and therefor of no interest or use to anyone.
No one is suggesting we completely stop pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere either immediately or ever, what is being suggested is that we control and limit these emissions.
@Baff First off we're not all hippies, I eat cows, I hit back, the people you're talking about, ecoterrorists, number in the hundreds at best and are largely ignored as insane by most reasonable people, they're only used as an example to bolster the propaganda you're being spoon fed.
Secondly maybe you should go look for facts before you post, here's a little place in Maine that's been on the web for a while. They use solar energy, which, by the way, the electric companies have to by law buy any excess energy back from the user. They use what they need and export the excess, it balances out to where they have paid no electric bills for a few years now.
www.solarhouse.com/
New technology is always expensive to begin with. The first users get soaked for development costs until the tech catches on and more people buy it. New technology also doesn't work the best it can until more research is put into it, something that alternatives have been doing for quite a number of years now. Your information may have been correct in, oh say, the early 1980's but time, and technology, has progressed.
As to being crushed by a lorry, there's also new technology being tested that will prevent crashes by electronically forcing the car to keep a set distance from other vehicles.
Energy, on either end, is big business. Coal and the whaling industries fought against gas and oil tooth and nail, people fought against that "dangerous" electricity too, even warring over AC or DC (Edison wanted DC and even went as far as suggesting AC as a form of execution, the electric chair, in hopes that it would scare people away from AC).
Now we have a more high tech, and savvy type of propaganda going on. Oil and gas are fighting to keep control of world energy, even lining up with coal, extracting oil from coal. Even the electric companies are fighting it, do you really think they want to pay you for electricity you generate?
Oh and btw, if as you say, the waters rise it'll be far more than just coasts, most of the earths growing lands are flatlands, areas that will be well below any substantial rise in water and will wipe out all that nice food you enjoy eating every day, as to your U.K. maybe the people in the highlands will be ok but maybe you should check your own elevation before you condemn everyone else... Have fun treading water, shark bait.
µV
Sorry I havem't had time to read your previous reply. No need to take offense.
1k w Solar array will provide half the daily usuage for the average family?
It takes 5 KW to boil a kettle. Come on mate, this really is elementry physics. They teach this here to kids aged 13. I know you really want this to be true, we all do, but it just isn't. You have to face up to things as they are.
Astma and allergies are not caused by Global warming.
I'm fully aware that green oil can be mixed with diesal. The Germans used this extensively in WW2 after they lost ehir oil fileds. It is however an expensibe way of doing it.
When oil really is nearlly depleted market forces will raise the price to such a level that green oil is economically preferable. No government legislation is required.
There are no electric cars as powerful as my car. None with the same range. I very much doubt the fuel is cheaper either.
What were all these successful recycling projects in WW2 that anyone can name? I'm not sure what they would disprove exactly, nut since "anyone" being able to name one doesn't seem to include you, your point is moot. Thaks for your recycled glass link to Wiki, my father was a glass recycler as was his father before him. I'm familiar with the process.
Wind farms are not more efficient than fossil fuel. That's why Wind Energy is more expensive than fossil fuel created energy. If it was more efficient it would cost less, not more. Welcome to reality. Wind farm invest factors the shelf life and mainteance costs already. Utterly laughable that you should think this has not been factored into the price from the beginning.
The money to buy these things is lent by a bank. A business plan for repayment and profits factored into the repayment scheme and the overall price of the energy depends on this. They don't just build million pounds worth of equipment and and pray it pays for itself in the long run.
Sorry I havem't had time to read your previous reply. No need to take offense.
1k Solar panels provide half the daily usuage for the average family? It takes 2-5 KW to boil a kettle. Stop talking nonsense.
http://jc-solarhomes.com/solar_energy_facts.htm
Ugly site, interesting facts. Question 7's answer is also very interesting. Apparently I forgot a zero there.Astma and allergies are not caused by Global warming.
True. But they're greatly helped by pollution.
I'm fully aware that green oil can be mixed with diesal. The Germans used this extensively in WW2 after they lost ehir oil fileds. It is however an expensibe way of doing it.
And about 1,25% (in 2010 5,75% )of the diesel you use (wait... I know this is true on the continent, dunno about UK for sure) is biodiesel. I think we're talking about a different kind of diesel since this article doesn't mention extensive use in WW2. Note that I'm not saying that biodiesel is a sollution for our energy problem.
When oil really is nearlly depleted market forces will raise the price to such a level that green oil is economically preferable. No government legislation is required.
Thinking ahead and anticipating however is. I think it can only be beneficial to us all if we try to tackle the energy problem BEFORE driving accros the country will cost more than the car itself.
There are no electric cars as powerful as my car. None with the same range. I very much doubt the fuel is cheaper either.
True, there is little reason to develop powerful electric cars, tho the technology is there. The fuel IS cheaper:
Electric vehicles typically cost between two and four cents per mile to operate, while gasoline-powered ICE vehicles currently cost about four to six times as much.[5]
The total cost of ownership for modern BEVs depends primarily on the cost of the batteries, the type and capacity of which determine several factors such as travel range, top speed, battery lifetime and recharging time; several trade-offs exist.
I wonder why one would need more power than the average electric car produces. As it is proven that the "power" of a car does far little to the safety of the car than let's say... The shape of the car does.
What were all these successful recycling projects in WW2 that anyone can name? I'm not sure what they would disprove exactly, nut since "anyone" being able to name one doesn't seem to include you, your point is moot. Thaks for your recycled glass link to Wiki, my father was a glass recycler as was his father before him. I'm familiar with the process.
The first project that springs to mind is the collection of nylon. I wasn't sure what you mentioning a WW2 recycling initiative would prove in the first place.
Wind farms are not more efficient than fossil fuel. That's why Wind Energy is more expensive than fossil fuel created energy. If it was more efficient it would cost less, not more. Welcome to reality. Wind farm invest factors the shelf life and mainteance costs already. Utterly laughable that you should think this has not been factored into the price from the beginning.
A recent report states: "Further, there is evidence that with new equipment designs and proper plant engineering, system stability in response to a major plant or line outage can actually be improved by the addition of wind generation."
Various countries have proven that wind energy can be a sizeable adition to the national output, without directly redusing the cost and the efficiency.
Other research is being conducted in tidal power. Namely the UK progresses greatly in this branch of green energy. Especially the low running cost is interesting.
The money to buy these things is lent by a bank. A business plan for repayment and profits factored into the repayment scheme and the overall price of the energy depends on this. They don't just build million pounds worth of equipment and and pray it pays for itself in the long run.
So you admit it's possible to do this, with a 100% repayment over the long term.
I think it's clear that no "green" energy can provide 100% energy independence. I wonder if anyone would really want to be dependant on one source for energy. Thanks to the rising oil price many corporations are putting considerable resources in the develoment of alternatives for fossil fuels and nuclear power (which is actually reasonably safe, cheap and clean). Thus a market is created where competition is fierce, creating a good price climate (together with government incentives) for civilians to buy solar/wind/whatever power instalations.
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Co2 pollution does not cause asthma or allergies.
You can forget linking me to facts, I suggest you try and understand that 1kw will not power a 5kw kettle. No amount of links will change this. Please don't try and convince me either you or the average family has a gas kettle.
Not that burning fossil fuels as a preference to solar powered electricity in anyway supports your argument.
My comparison to the WW2 government initiative to recycle iron is a demonstration that these kind of initiatives are not necessarily practical or useful in anyway.
Various countries have proven that wind energy can be a sizeable adition to the national output, without directly redusing the cost and the efficiency.
Exactly it doesn't reduce the cost. It increases it. It is inefficient.
In stead of just dismissing my links, provide some of your own. From unbiased sources please. Thanks.
I use gas, and so does the large majority of the people I know.
I fail to see how one example of recycling being a watse of time and money will say something about all those initiatives. I fail to see what recycling has to do with this discussion.
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Mate, your links aren't even remotely intresting, why on earth would I want to waste my time surfing for more.
My car doesn't produce any other emmisions other than CO2 and water. Neither do clean fosil fuel power stations.
As bad as asthma and allergies maybe, do you truely believe the menace they pose to society outweighs the benefits brought to it by industrialisation?
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Absurd but true. M.O.T. ed last week.
0.00000 on the emissions test as usual.
My car is clean, and your solar panels providing any serious amount of home electricity are a joke. It would take over 20 years for them to pay for the cost of installation.
I'd think the extra instalation cost sounds more than sensible if you're not influenced by biased sources.
BTW, how are you suggesting mankind should solve its dependency on a rapidly depleting source of energy?
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Everyone, please stop trying to confuse him with facts! He simply isnt interested in knowing that hes been heating water with an Arc welder!
Everyone, please stop trying to confuse him with facts! He simply isn’t interested in knowing that he’s been heating water with an Arc welder!
He's right about the kettle thingy. I simply mistyped something.CLICK HERE TO GET A LIST OF FREE MMO LISTS!!!
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................................................................CLUB SODA................................
..............................................a little bit of that stuff fixes anything.
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Widely accepted by muppets who will buy into any old pipe dream.
And yes, I am saying that big corporations aren't able to produce a competative alternative to fossil fuels. Currently there isn't one. Nuclear and renewable energy sources are all subsidised and more expensive. Private energy companies are not investing in these without government intervention. It just isn't as profitable as other investments that can be made with the same money.
The thing about big corporations, is that the people who run them aren't stupid. They don't need to win votes or bow to whatever fads are currently in fashion. They earn up to hundreds of times more money than our politicians because they get things right.
Biased sources? You're the one with all the dodgey links, Mad. I haven't offered you a single one, the bulk of the opinion I have been offering you in this thread has been based on my own personal experience.
Why don't you go down to your local D.I.Y. shop and see how much they cost. Calculate how much electricity they generate and how much that same electricity costs to buy the good old fashioned way. You can keeping linking away to any old thing that supports your imagination here on the internet, but there is no substitute for working it out for yourself.
Do you have solar panels on your house? Do you believe in what you preach enough to actually practice it, or when push comes to shove are you one of those types who talks a good fight but always has some poor excuse as to why they themselves haven't done anything about it?
I don't have a lot of faith in people who just talk the talk.
µV
Am I the only EU/UK resident here that sounds EXACTLY like something our collective governments would do?... Frankly, there's no debate here in the UK about whether or not Global Warming is an issue, because the government have been forcing it down our throats since primary school for years... I got sent to my head of sixth form about arguing with 'the facts' again over it (he's the same prick who won't let me consider that we've been lied to somewhat about the Holocaust... But that being the same prick who thinks we should interpret "all of history with a pinch of salt, because facts will always get misconstrued by the victor.").
And lol@ the reforms costing trillions... Dream on... Our annual budget doesn't even reach that! Hahaha!
Oh, and if you want a decent thing to look up that counters Global Warming... Check out the Gaia Hypothesis. As I read more books on it I'm more convinced by it...
Am I the only EU/UK resident here that sounds EXACTLY like something our collective governments would do?... Frankly, there's no debate here in the UK about whether or not Global Warming is an issue, because the government have been forcing it down our throats since primary school for years... I got sent to my head of sixth form about arguing with 'the facts' again over it (he's the same prick who won't let me consider that we've been lied to somewhat about the Holocaust... But that being the same prick who thinks we should interpret "all of history with a pinch of salt, because facts will always get misconstrued by the victor.").
And lol@ the reforms costing trillions... Dream on... Our annual budget doesn't even reach that! Hahaha!
Oh, and if you want a decent thing to look up that counters Global Warming... Check out the Gaia Hypothesis. As I read more books on it I'm more convinced by it...
Congratulations!!! You've just won the "Biggest Idiot of the Forum" award
µV
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
A kettle uses about 0.25kW. You cant even get 5kW without a specialized industrial outlet and heavy duty wiring.
Am I the only EU/UK resident here that sounds EXACTLY like something our collective governments would do?... Frankly, there's no debate here in the UK about whether or not Global Warming is an issue, because the government have been forcing it down our throats since primary school for years... I got sent to my head of sixth form about arguing with 'the facts' again over it (he's the same prick who won't let me consider that we've been lied to somewhat about the Holocaust... But that being the same prick who thinks we should interpret "all of history with a pinch of salt, because facts will always get misconstrued by the victor.").
And lol@ the reforms costing trillions... Dream on... Our annual budget doesn't even reach that! Hahaha!
Oh, and if you want a decent thing to look up that counters Global Warming... Check out the Gaia Hypothesis. As I read more books on it I'm more convinced by it...
Congratulations!!! You've just won the "Biggest Idiot of the Forum" award
Care to tell me why?
Wait a minute!!!
Thats my award.........Dammit
@Baff:
Saying personal opinions aren't biased is absurd. Those are PERSONAL opinions so they are de facto subjective. Especially if you only base them on your own experiences (which are bound to be limited).
I feel no need to boast planting trees to counter all the world's ecological and economical problems.
I myself do my things to ue energy conciously. But that's not even the issue. I simply do it fo the money. I'm convinced that all the damage done by nature will be irreversible for the coming few hundred years.
So we should focus on damage control and getting rid of that fucking fossil fuel crap which dictates our foreign policies and bankrupts our future.
It seems you are the one unable to adapt or unable to think outside the box. A little rusty are we?
BTW, nuclear power IS cheaper than fossil fueled power and it's NOT motivated by the government with hard cash. Simple as that. You prove once again you have little idea what you're talking about.
@Khuzzarz,
you have no IDEA what the Gaia hypthesis is.
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Well why don't you tell me then?... I'm fairly sure that after 5 books read and numerous papers written on the subject, I've got a vague idea what I'm talking about. If you wanna dispute that, that's your right, but I'd love to hear your opinions on Gaia Theory before you pass judgement on mine (which you've not even heard yet.).
I'm assuming you meet my mention of the subject with such hostility because you either follow Margulis' theories on it, or because you have interpretted it to mean that we should not be trying to upset the homeostatic state the planet is in. If it's the latter, you're an idiot, because you should know that if something is in homeostatis, anything external condition applied to it will be met with a balancing force to negate any effects. If it's the former, and you believe the planet to be in a homeorhetic state, such that we could speed up any changes that would soon occur regardless, then obviously that is your opinion and mine differs.
Just to give you a tiny bit of the information I base my opinions relating to GT on; there is already substancial evidence to suggest that large areas of ocean are experiencing algal blooms already, which will act to counter the CO2 being emitted to the atmosphere at the moment. The planet will self regulate to keep us alive regardless of whether I drive a Prius+ or a Hummer.