So who will you believe? Redneck Radio or Science (the magazine)? I suggest you READ the article.
Yes, they can be wrong.... But for the time being, untill they are disproven I would say reforming the global economy, saving a lot of species, opening up new ways to infinite (or at least abundant) energy, helping kids not to get astma, reducing the number of cancer deaths, negating the selfish and destructive power of big corporations should be one of mankind's priorities.
I won't be believing either until someone comes up with better evidence. As I said fasahion is fashion. The fashion in the scientific community used to be the world is flat. Now it's global warming. Only time will tell.
I don't blindly believe in stories until they are disproven, I withhold belief until they are proven. Sorry if I haven't bothered to read you article. Nor will I be, the internet is full of articles as isd the TV, the newspapers etc. I think I already get the gist.
As for the dangers of big industry to mankind, big industry is saving more lives, curing more diseases than eco-science ever will or ever has. Blaming all the ill's of the world on global warming is ridiculous.
There are more immediate problems in the world than global warming, I'm damned if I will listen to some idiot hippy fashion promote a return to the dark ages in the name of enviromentalism. Tell it to the Chinese. See how hard they laugh at you. Big corps are pulling millions of their people out of starvation and poverty every year.
What total nonsense that they shoulf give that all up for some unproven theory. What nonsense that we should either.
If the climate changes, it changes, predict and adapt.
For the record, I am actively involved in the conservation of endangered species, I own my own sanction. I entirely fail to see what this has to do with global warming or big corporations. It's just more boring nonsence from people who have no idea or practical experience of what they are talking about.
I also own and have planetd 61 acres of woodland, 30 acres commercial 31 conservational. All of this only made possible by investment in "big corporations". Go figure.
So who will you believe? Redneck Radio or Science (the magazine)? I suggest you READ the article.
Yes, they can be wrong.... But for the time being, untill they are disproven I would say reforming the global economy, saving a lot of species, opening up new ways to infinite (or at least abundant) energy, helping kids not to get astma, reducing the number of cancer deaths, negating the selfish and destructive power of big corporations should be one of mankind's priorities.
I won't be believing either until someone comes up with better evidence. As I said fasahion is fashion. The fashion in the scientific community used to be the world is flat. Now it's global warming. Only time will tell.
So what is the point at which you day "this is proof" or "this is fashion"? Seems that you have little or no idea at all about the abundance (hundreds of articles by the most respected and experienced scientists mankind has ever known) of proof that there is about.
I don't blindly believe in stories until they are disproven, I withhold belief until they are proven. Sorry if I haven't bothered to read you article. Nor will I be, the internet is full of articles as isd the TV, the newspapers etc. I think I already get the gist.
Yes, the internet is full of articles... Why have internet access if you will not believe (or even read) the most credable and most funded research available? The only reason why I choose to belive in man-aided global warming is because of the proof and because of personal experience.
As for the dangers of big industry to mankind, big industry is saving more lives, curing more diseases than eco-science ever will or ever has. Blaming all the ill's of the world on global warming is ridiculous.
That's pure bullshit. For one, big coroporations aren't all afraid of their image and spend millions (a fraction of what they make) on public relations. For example the holdings that own most of the massive corporations do not have to answer to the people, or even many governments.
If you're interested: Big corporations have killed more people in the second half of the twentieth century than people died in the second world war.
And I'm not blaming all ill's of the world on global warming, or big coporations, or Bush, or the big giant potatoe. Nor do the scientists I refer to.
It's just as simple as this: Problem, find source, eliminate source. It's called adapting.
There are more immediate problems in the world than global warming, I'm damned if I will listen to some idiot hippy fashion promote a return to the dark ages in the name of enviromentalism. Tell it to the Chinese. See how hard they laugh at you. Big corps are pulling millions of their people out of starvation and poverty every year.
Global warming causes famine, desertification, dying forrests, diseases, sinking islands, civil war and mass erosion. It's not our main problem, but mankind has more than enough resources (easily) to take care of this.
In your arrogance you are asuming that getting rid of fossil fuels means getting rid of those 2 (or even 3) cars per family we all desperatly need. Bullshit. The alternatives have been developed for decades, and if anything fossil fuels are holding us back like the katholic church did in medievel times. And yea, blame it on someone else. Take your responsability like a sentient being.
What total nonsense that they shoulf give that all up for some unproven theory. What nonsense that we should either.
It's proven. I don't see how it can be proven any more. The large majority of all meteorological institutes and scientists support the existence of man-aided global warming and have conclusive research to back it up.
If the climate changes, it changes, predict and adapt.
No kidding. What the hell do you think all this is about? "The climate is changing, we know in a large degree how it will evolve from here and we have the means to adapt and improve the global economy at the same time."
For the record, I am actively involved in the conservation of endangered species, I own my own sanction. I entirely fail to see what this has to do with global warming or big corporations. It's just more boring nonsence from people who have no idea or practical experience of what they are talking about.
I entirely fail to see what saving a few trees has to do with GLOBAL warming.
I also own and have planetd 61 acres of woodland, 30 acres commercial 31 conservational. All of this only made possible by investment in "big corporations". Go figure.
That's about the amount of forrest that has been cut in the last hour. Go figure.
I really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really Hope that you're joking. Please be, I already hate you, you Xbox worshipper, but this is out of line.
I like it to be warm as much as the next guy, but not in fucking January. It should be snowing in January, not 70 degrees. If you actually think that, then I will smile when you complain that you can't play Xbox anymore b/c it got ruined when your house flooded
You know what really kills me in certain of these responces, especially the rantings of you outfctrl, you buy into the same crock and bull stories that certian corporations, mostly the biggest polluters, have stuffed you full of. After decades of the tobacco industry putting out their "it's safe to smoke" propaganda, even hiring fake "doctors" to back up their fake findings, you idiots, especially you outfctrl, get sucked right into the same "payed for" opinions.
I use to wonder how Joseph Goebbels could have sucked in so many of the German people during WWII, now I see how, they were just like you. Just your average bunch of schmucks who have been fooled into thinking they're actually smarter than the rest of the world, some of you (as with them) actually are intelligent (except maybe of course outfctrl, but then he may have just bounced off the asphalt a few to many times so we'll just think of him as "special"), that's the saddest part.
You've been fooled into thinking that it's nothing but that "hippie liberal garbage", and that you have secret knowledge above and beyond everyone else. You've been conned into believing that the scientific community is close minded and wrong, despite the fact that it takes an open mind to progress as far as we have.
Year by year changes take effect, yes the earth has changed over the years, usually those changes were not gradual but brought on by catastrophic events, massive meteorites, super volcanos (Yellowstone Park, for instance is just a part of one of the smaller calderas of a couple massive expolsions from ONE volcano who's largest caldera stretches over a couple states and there's belived to be about 40 total on this planet). Changes have historically been violent, not gradual. Some of these catastrophes have lead to the extinction of nearly all life on this planet, some have lead to our being the dominant species on this planet. If things go as they are we may wind up being the next catastrophe.
out, I'm sure you'll retort with the same gusto and stupidity as you usually do, I know you'll never "get it", you don't want to. I think I do have you figgured out though, I use to have a friend like you, note: use to, he just loved to argue about anything. I didn't matter what proof you showed him, dictionaries, encyclopedias, scientific documentation, he'd argue that reality itself was wrong and should conform to what he believed. Someone like this may be entertaining for a while but eventually is just annoying, hence the "use to". You're just like him, you post only to indulge your own need for an argument. My friend would do this because he thought it would make him look smart, he actually was fairly intelligent but was too young to be self confident about it, he hadn't learned one of life's little facts, one that at your age you should have learned by now. Some things in life you have to go out, look, and learn for yourself, not just take the word of others for. I hope you learn that youself someday.
Some things in life you have to go out, look, and learn for yourself, not just take the word of others for. I hope you learn that youself someday.
There is no positive proof. You are just gullible, I am not. It is a waste of money doing research on this crap. The earth changes, the climate changes, thats a fact. Do we change it....no proof, just speculation. Sorry, I am not convinced.
My My...it is getting warmer...OMG..we are causing it. BS
The earth goes through stages. global warming is not happeneing!
i heard that too, christ i actually agree with you about something. but on the other hand can we honestly stand here and say that we are not contributing to the effect when we are pumping so much crap into the atmosphere ??
If you are concerned about global warming as me. you will understand that we can do something about it. Start off by going to these websites and realizing that we need to take action before this planet is ruined. Below are a list of websites you can go to, to save the world from global warming. Please consider. Write me back if you have any questions. I am at junifx@yahoo.com
Some things in life you have to go out, look, and learn for yourself, not just take the word of others for. I hope you learn that youself someday.
There is no positive proof. You are just gullible, I am not. It is a waste of money doing research on this crap. The earth changes, the climate changes, thats a fact. Do we change it....no proof, just speculation. Sorry, I am not convinced.
My My...it is getting warmer...OMG..we are causing it. BS
That there is global warming is a fact, denying that would be as absurd as denying our very existence.
In case someone is in doubt: THERE IS PROOF, WHICH IS ALMOST INDESPUTABLE. MAN-AIDED GLOBAL WARMING IS AS WELL PROVEN AS THE THEORY OF RELATIVITY (actually better since there was more research on man-aided global warming).
The proof is there, there is a scientific concencus and dozens of governments have been spending considerable sums of money for the past 2 decades to right the wrong.
What amazes me is that reacting against man-aided global warming is beneficial, whether it exists or not.
MadAce, he argues for the sake of arguing, proof doesn't matter to him, he along with others obviously just suck up to the corporate flag and will follow it like lemmings forever more. Big business relies on people like him, they always have, they do as they're told, deny any proof you offer and do their master's bidding. Notice that he never responds to any question or statement except with an absurdity that has nothing to do with any question you ask him, one of the reasons he chops down any post to single sentances to use as quotes. I could have a more intellectual conversation with a piece of wood. He's been brainwashed into thinking that anyone who does the least little thing to stop polluting is, "a communist", or "a hippie", I'm sure he'd add in a few others except he can't use those words here without being reported. It was amusing for a while to listen to a pseudointellectual claim any proof is pseudoscience, now he's just another annoyance (his usual goal, not to actually be right but just to annoy anyone who is right until they leave). He and others like him don't wish to discuss anything, they just want to grunt and parrot the rants they've been taught, a sad replacement for actually using their brains.
And while you ignore the problem while waiting for the data that no one can give you since the human race hasn't been keeping records for the millions of years you need to give said data the world dies, Ever read Catch 22? Being ignorant is bad enough but educated ignorance is even more brain dead. It was people like you who kept the world in darkness for years, why not deny that the earth is not the center of the universe, how much data do we really have on the universe to prove that we are not the center? Anyway I'm done with this argument, wallow in your self satisfied ignorance all you want.
You're right! We better kill off all those damn cows causign our obliteration by expelling methane! Who cares if we destroy the ecosystem balance and cause the death of other grazing animals which will destry sustainable food sources! It matters not for methane might be destroying ozone!
Cut your nose off despite your face. Obviously you never read my posts so I will ignore you now. If you can't take the time to read about a topic you care about then you must live off buzz word media for everythign else. There are plenty of reasons to stop "possible causes" but why stand on the weakest argument when there are so many strong ones? Simple, you don't understand what is happening.
Everytime has two sides and just because there is two sides des not mean there is a right and wrong.
Read up on the ppk, In These Times, The Economist, Society for Sane Statistics and other proper resources before you make more of a fool of yourself.
By the way: You better start killing off those cows before they pollute more!
Hey Guess what buddy WE DO KILL THE F**KING COWS!!! AND IT'S CUT OFF YOUR NOSE TO SPITE YOUR FACE DUMBASS
ALSO we kill the majority of grazing animalsin the world because we raise them on farms for food, if we didn't do that they would be more spread out and there would also be less of them to fart more! It's ALL and I mean ALL humanity's fault. We've been setting ourselves up for these times since our race left Babylon.
When are you guys going to accept it as facts!!! THERE ARE FACTS!!!!! PROVEN FACTS!!!!! Are you going to finally accept it when your yard is underwater?! Is oil really that important to you?! We had an Electric Car, except oil companies paid to have it destroyed so they could keep making money! Mankind will end all b/c some people are afraid to lose a few dollars.
OH NO! I sound like a crazy Liberal Hippie, That's because I AM!! Hippies live in peace with each other and the enviroment, just like buddhists, it's not hard, but I don't expect you guys to give it a chance. You're afraid of change only you don't realize without change, we'll bring the most drastic change our race has ever seen.
Oh well....I live near a river and I'm a swimmer Maybe I'll turn into a Merman or a shark or something cool like that. I'll eat all of you guys who didn't believe us when you come swimmng too
Hey genius above me...where did the energy come from to power those electric cars? They had to be charged from some source...yeah, that's kinda what I thought.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Hey genius above me...where did the energy come from to power those electric cars? They had to be charged from some source...yeah, that's kinda what I thought.
And the only option for that is Oil?
What about using sun, wind, bio and nuclear energy for producing that electricity? Or why not make it even easier, just tank your diesel car with Ethanol or other similar bio fuels.
Did you know that the country of Sweden will most likely be totally independent of oil for warming, and transport by the year of 2020? And they are achieving this by relative low investments. Why aren't more countries doing this? What is the big evil of doing this? The end effects are only positive.
I find it interesting, you believe you can save the world by visiting websites. Maybe not using your car will help the world a little more than using up the planets energy to power up your computer. Just a thought of mine ...
The earth goes through stages. global warming is not happeneing!
i heard that too, christ i actually agree with you about something. but on the other hand can we honestly stand here and say that we are not contributing to the effect when we are pumping so much crap into the atmosphere ??
The question is not whether we are contributing to it, but whether we can afford to stop contributing to it.
Hippies would have you believe that a return to the dark ages is the way forward, or that science can miraculously create energy out of thin air that not only creates no pollution but also will not be used to heat the planet. As if somehow the human race is sustainable at this level of population without mass industrialisation. (Oooo big business is sooo bad. I hate it because I am a student and don't know anything about anything that isn't school).
Renewable energy sources, don't cut it. They are very expensive and don't produce sod all power. If you cover your roof in Solar panels you still won't have enough KW power to boil a kettle. You maybe be able to power a lightbulb, but only in daylight hours which kind of defeats the object. Likewise on a stormy day one of those little windmills can also run a lightbulb. This is the reality of Green energy. It doesn't cut it. It's a pipe dream. Take note that enything that is expensive to make is inherantly enviromentally unfriendly. Wind farms and solar farms are made industrially. Their very production effects the climate. As does their operation.
I believe in Energy Diversity as a strategic necessity but not as a solution to global warming.
In WW2 the government asked people to gather up their scrap iron to aid to war effort. People were encouraged to hand in their pots and pans, rip the metal railings out of their gardens etc. Everyone was pleased to do their part. It is of historical record that none of this scrap metal was used. Recycling it cost more than mining and smelting the raw stuff.
Today we have recycled glass points, and recycled knappy services. All to save the enviroment. The government has nationalised the recycled glass industry, and now instead of you returning your glass bottles to your place of purchase to receive back your deposit of 10pence, and the same delivery truck that brought the fresh ones taking the old ones back to the plant; every single person gets in their car and drives to the recycle point. The government charges us for this service. More money for them, more pollution for the enviroment, less money for us. Once again the (green) glass cost more to reclaim than it does to smelt from raw. The bulk of it is not used.
So go for it if you will, drive your little electric cars around. Die in your first car crash, crushed under a lorry as your dangerously underpowered car could not accelerate out of it's path and it's lightweight frame could not protect your body from physical impact. I will be sticking with my 4 litre marvel of engineering. Efficient, powerful, clean.
The reason why wind farms and nuclear power are so expensive, is because they are so useless. Inefficient. Green oil which is also very expensive, doesn't lower the carbon content of the atmoshere, it is at best neutral. Why shoot yourself in the foot for no practical gain? Better to use the cheap oil and spend the money researching serious industrial methods of atmosphere control. Better still to use the money to live the good life. By cheap Chinese goods, and keep the world poor fed through commercialisation.
Let the Hippies build their arcs. I'm not a sheep, I won't be following. I'll chose my own path. I'd rather swim.
The earth goes through stages. global warming is not happeneing!
i heard that too, christ i actually agree with you about something. but on the other hand can we honestly stand here and say that we are not contributing to the effect when we are pumping so much crap into the atmosphere ??
The question is not whether we are contributing to it, but whether we can afford to stop contributing to it.
Hippies would have you believe that a return to the dark ages is the way forward, or that science can miraculously create energy out of thin air that not only creates no pollution but also will not be used to heat the planet. As if somehow the human race is sustainable at this level of population without mass industrialisation. (Oooo big business is sooo bad. I hate it because I am a student and don't know anything about anything that isn't school).
Renewable energy sources, don't cut it. They are very expensive and don't produce sod all power. If you cover your roof in Solar panels you still won't have enough KW power to boil a kettle. You maybe be able to power a lightbulb, but only in daylight hours which kind of defeats the object. Likewise on a stormy day one of those little windmills can also run a lightbulb. This is the reality of Green energy. It doesn't cut it. It's a pipe dream. Take note that enything that is expensive to make is inherantly enviromentally unfriendly. Wind farms and solar farms are made industrially. Their very production effects the climate. As does their operation.
I believe in Energy Diversity as a strategic necessity but not as a solution to global warming.
In WW2 the government asked people to gather up their scrap iron to aid to war effort. People were encouraged to hand in their pots and pans, rip the metal railings out of their gardens etc. Everyone was pleased to do their part. It is of historical record that none of this scrap metal was used. Recycling it cost more than mining and smelting the raw stuff.
Today we have recycled glass points, and recycled knappy services. All to save the enviroment. The government has nationalised the recycled glass industry, and now instead of you returning your glass bottles to your place of purchase to receive back your deposit of 10pence, and the same delivery truck that brought the fresh ones taking the old ones back to the plant; every single person gets in their car and drives to the recycle point. The government charges us for this service. More money for them, more pollution for the enviroment, less money for us. Once again the (green) glass cost more to reclaim than it does to smelt from raw. The bulk of it is not used.
So go for it if you will, drive your little electric cars around. Die in your first car crash, crushed under a lorry as your dangerously underpowered car could not accelerate out of it's path and it's lightweight frame could not protect your body from physical impact. I will be sticking with my 4 litre marvel of engineering. Efficient, powerful, clean.
The reason why wind farms and nuclear power are so expensive, is because they are so useless. Inefficient. Green oil which is also very expensive, doesn't lower the carbon content of the atmoshere, it is at best neutral. Why shoot yourself in the foot for no practical gain? Better to use the cheap oil and spend the money researching serious industrial methods of atmosphere control. Better still to use the money to live the good life. By cheap Chinese goods, and keep the world poor fed through commercialisation.
Let the Hippies build their arcs. I'm not a sheep, I won't be following. I'll chose my own path. I'd rather swim.
Nice to see you're admiting your ignorance by not replying to my previous reply.
But I'll try to be polite and point out some flaws in your (lack off) reasoning.
I'll also try to intriduce a nice novelty: facts. Don't be startled as they sometimes may cause harm, but nothing denyal won't easily fix.
First of all, I was surprised to see you live in the UK. After all, it's the home of the influential and respected Stern Review.
Of course science can creat energy from "nothing". Mankind has been doing so for thousands of years. Or did you think (think... hahaha) that mills used to work on burning trees or something? Not at all.
You seem to think that photovoltaic (or the countless other ways to harnest solar energy) haven't evolved since... The twenties...
A bit arrogant and of course completely wrong.
A 1kW instalation will be able to produce about half of the energy daily consumed by the average family, on a normal day under normal light conditions (you of course knew that photovoltaic cells mainly operate on light, not on direct solar light) and in the average western European country.
If you were wondering, these instalations aren't manufactered by hippie communities but by large corporations (such as BP).
And "those little wind mills" produce a quarter of Denmark's energy, Globally, wind power generation more than quadrupled between 1999 and 2005.
The cost of wind-generated electric power has dropped substantially. Since 2004, according to some sources, the price in the United States is now lower than the cost of fuel-generated electric power, even without taking externalities into account. In 2005, wind energy cost one-fifth as much as it did in the late 1990s, and that downward trend is expected to continue as larger multi-megawatt turbines are mass-produced.A British Wind Energy Association report gives an average generation cost of onshore wind power of around 3.2 pence per kilowatt hour.Wind power is growing quickly, at about 38% in 2003,up from 25% growth in 2002. In the United States, as of 2003, wind power was the fastest growing form of electricity generation on a percentage basis.
Yes, those windmills are "expensive" but are low-cost on maintanance. Of course the life-span of a windmill will easily negate the negative effects of its production (which would be non-existent in a completely green economy).
Your comments on glass (and iron ore in WW2, which doesnt makes sense since anyone can name examples of recycling efforts in those days that DID work out) are unfunded and should be disproven.
Why do you asume electric cars are underpowered compared to fossil fuel fueled cars? That's a bit absurd considering many of the high yeld electric engines in our daily lives are using electricity. Why not? They're more silent, they have 98% energy conversion efficiency, are just as powerful as other cars, and despite their slightly higher purchasing price they are cheaper in maintanance and fueling.
Green oil? Is that how would-be rednecks are calling it these days? I hope you do know that according to EU laws most of the diesel has to be mixed with bio-diesel? Nah, you don't.
Wind farms are more efficient than fossil fuel based plants, with ease. So if I understand you correctly you would rather have the world cling to a nearly depleted, highly inefficient, highly dangerous, hard to come by (*cough* Iraq *cough*), and polluting energy source than have home-grown, efficient, undepletable, constantly evolving and easy-to)come-by energy?
Good luck defending that to your kids. Any of them have astma or alergies?
So please wake up. Smell the coffee and realize that you as a human being have the responsability to protect your species. Also...
It's gonna happen anyways, whether you like it or not.
If you are concerned about global warming as me. you will understand that we can do something about it. Start off by going to these websites and realizing that we need to take action before this planet is ruined. Below are a list of websites you can go to, to save the world from global warming. Please consider. Write me back if you have any questions. I am at junifx@yahoo.com
Since global warming will impact coastal areas most heavily, and since coastal areas have the highest concentrations of Leftist nutcakes, I can only conclude that global warming is a solution, not a problem. Face it, the coasts need a good dunking.
In fact, it makes me want to get out the cans of aerosol and spray some flourocarbons into the atmosphere. The sooner, the better.
Originally posted by Fugnudz Originally posted by junie If you are concerned about global warming as me. you will understand that we can do something about it. Start off by going to these websites and realizing that we need to take action before this planet is ruined. Below are a list of websites you can go to, to save the world from global warming. Please consider. Write me back if you have any questions. I am at junifx@yahoo.com www.epa.gov/climatechange/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming
Since global warming will impact coastal areas most heavily, and since coastal areas have the highest concentrations of Leftist nutcakes, I can only conclude that global warming is a solution, not a problem. Face it, the coasts need a good dunking. In fact, it makes me want to get out the cans of aerosol and spray some flourocarbons into the atmosphere. The sooner, the better.
i'm hoping this is complete sarcasm? yea..you never know on the internet..
I don't blindly believe in stories until they are disproven, I withhold belief until they are proven.
You are using the same fallacious argument you see every time some proto-mystic wants to reject science and hold their unsupported opinions as fact. You insist that because science has yet to “prove” something that we should proceed as if it isn’t true.
First of all it’s blatantly fallacious to suggest that something be treated as false because it hasn’t been proven as true. Second, the scientific process doesn’t prove anything and it doesn’t claim to so. By demanding that it “prove” before you take it seriously what you are really doing is rejecting the scientific process, and only a completely gullible fool would do so.
For those interested this is how the scientific method works
1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.
2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.
3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.
4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.
A Hypothesis that survives repeated testing and peer review gets elevated to the level of a theory, which is in fact the strongest statement ever made by science. If, in the context of a discussion involving science, you ever hear someone use the phrase “just a theory” or see someone insist that science needs to “prove” something before they will take it seriously you can disregard them out of hand. They don’t know how science works and are knowingly or unknowingly trying to reject science altogether.
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I won't be believing either until someone comes up with better evidence. As I said fasahion is fashion. The fashion in the scientific community used to be the world is flat. Now it's global warming. Only time will tell.
I don't blindly believe in stories until they are disproven, I withhold belief until they are proven. Sorry if I haven't bothered to read you article. Nor will I be, the internet is full of articles as isd the TV, the newspapers etc. I think I already get the gist.
As for the dangers of big industry to mankind, big industry is saving more lives, curing more diseases than eco-science ever will or ever has. Blaming all the ill's of the world on global warming is ridiculous.
There are more immediate problems in the world than global warming, I'm damned if I will listen to some idiot hippy fashion promote a return to the dark ages in the name of enviromentalism. Tell it to the Chinese. See how hard they laugh at you. Big corps are pulling millions of their people out of starvation and poverty every year.
What total nonsense that they shoulf give that all up for some unproven theory. What nonsense that we should either.
If the climate changes, it changes, predict and adapt.
For the record, I am actively involved in the conservation of endangered species, I own my own sanction. I entirely fail to see what this has to do with global warming or big corporations. It's just more boring nonsence from people who have no idea or practical experience of what they are talking about.
I also own and have planetd 61 acres of woodland, 30 acres commercial 31 conservational. All of this only made possible by investment in "big corporations". Go figure.
I won't be believing either until someone comes up with better evidence. As I said fasahion is fashion. The fashion in the scientific community used to be the world is flat. Now it's global warming. Only time will tell.
So what is the point at which you day "this is proof" or "this is fashion"? Seems that you have little or no idea at all about the abundance (hundreds of articles by the most respected and experienced scientists mankind has ever known) of proof that there is about.
I don't blindly believe in stories until they are disproven, I withhold belief until they are proven. Sorry if I haven't bothered to read you article. Nor will I be, the internet is full of articles as isd the TV, the newspapers etc. I think I already get the gist.
Yes, the internet is full of articles... Why have internet access if you will not believe (or even read) the most credable and most funded research available? The only reason why I choose to belive in man-aided global warming is because of the proof and because of personal experience.
As for the dangers of big industry to mankind, big industry is saving more lives, curing more diseases than eco-science ever will or ever has. Blaming all the ill's of the world on global warming is ridiculous.
That's pure bullshit. For one, big coroporations aren't all afraid of their image and spend millions (a fraction of what they make) on public relations. For example the holdings that own most of the massive corporations do not have to answer to the people, or even many governments.
If you're interested: Big corporations have killed more people in the second half of the twentieth century than people died in the second world war.
And I'm not blaming all ill's of the world on global warming, or big coporations, or Bush, or the big giant potatoe. Nor do the scientists I refer to.
It's just as simple as this: Problem, find source, eliminate source. It's called adapting.
There are more immediate problems in the world than global warming, I'm damned if I will listen to some idiot hippy fashion promote a return to the dark ages in the name of enviromentalism. Tell it to the Chinese. See how hard they laugh at you. Big corps are pulling millions of their people out of starvation and poverty every year.
Global warming causes famine, desertification, dying forrests, diseases, sinking islands, civil war and mass erosion. It's not our main problem, but mankind has more than enough resources (easily) to take care of this.
In your arrogance you are asuming that getting rid of fossil fuels means getting rid of those 2 (or even 3) cars per family we all desperatly need. Bullshit. The alternatives have been developed for decades, and if anything fossil fuels are holding us back like the katholic church did in medievel times. And yea, blame it on someone else. Take your responsability like a sentient being.
What total nonsense that they shoulf give that all up for some unproven theory. What nonsense that we should either.
It's proven. I don't see how it can be proven any more. The large majority of all meteorological institutes and scientists support the existence of man-aided global warming and have conclusive research to back it up.
If the climate changes, it changes, predict and adapt.
No kidding. What the hell do you think all this is about? "The climate is changing, we know in a large degree how it will evolve from here and we have the means to adapt and improve the global economy at the same time."
For the record, I am actively involved in the conservation of endangered species, I own my own sanction. I entirely fail to see what this has to do with global warming or big corporations. It's just more boring nonsence from people who have no idea or practical experience of what they are talking about.
I entirely fail to see what saving a few trees has to do with GLOBAL warming.
I also own and have planetd 61 acres of woodland, 30 acres commercial 31 conservational. All of this only made possible by investment in "big corporations". Go figure.
That's about the amount of forrest that has been cut in the last hour. Go figure.
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I really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really Hope that you're joking. Please be, I already hate you, you Xbox worshipper, but this is out of line.
I like it to be warm as much as the next guy, but not in fucking January. It should be snowing in January, not 70 degrees. If you actually think that, then I will smile when you complain that you can't play Xbox anymore b/c it got ruined when your house flooded
You know what really kills me in certain of these responces, especially the rantings of you outfctrl, you buy into the same crock and bull stories that certian corporations, mostly the biggest polluters, have stuffed you full of. After decades of the tobacco industry putting out their "it's safe to smoke" propaganda, even hiring fake "doctors" to back up their fake findings, you idiots, especially you outfctrl, get sucked right into the same "payed for" opinions.
I use to wonder how Joseph Goebbels could have sucked in so many of the German people during WWII, now I see how, they were just like you. Just your average bunch of schmucks who have been fooled into thinking they're actually smarter than the rest of the world, some of you (as with them) actually are intelligent (except maybe of course outfctrl, but then he may have just bounced off the asphalt a few to many times so we'll just think of him as "special"), that's the saddest part.
You've been fooled into thinking that it's nothing but that "hippie liberal garbage", and that you have secret knowledge above and beyond everyone else. You've been conned into believing that the scientific community is close minded and wrong, despite the fact that it takes an open mind to progress as far as we have.
Year by year changes take effect, yes the earth has changed over the years, usually those changes were not gradual but brought on by catastrophic events, massive meteorites, super volcanos (Yellowstone Park, for instance is just a part of one of the smaller calderas of a couple massive expolsions from ONE volcano who's largest caldera stretches over a couple states and there's belived to be about 40 total on this planet). Changes have historically been violent, not gradual. Some of these catastrophes have lead to the extinction of nearly all life on this planet, some have lead to our being the dominant species on this planet. If things go as they are we may wind up being the next catastrophe.
out, I'm sure you'll retort with the same gusto and stupidity as you usually do, I know you'll never "get it", you don't want to. I think I do have you figgured out though, I use to have a friend like you, note: use to, he just loved to argue about anything. I didn't matter what proof you showed him, dictionaries, encyclopedias, scientific documentation, he'd argue that reality itself was wrong and should conform to what he believed. Someone like this may be entertaining for a while but eventually is just annoying, hence the "use to". You're just like him, you post only to indulge your own need for an argument. My friend would do this because he thought it would make him look smart, he actually was fairly intelligent but was too young to be self confident about it, he hadn't learned one of life's little facts, one that at your age you should have learned by now. Some things in life you have to go out, look, and learn for yourself, not just take the word of others for. I hope you learn that youself someday.
µV
My My...it is getting warmer...OMG..we are causing it. BS
I live in Alaska. It is very freaking cold up here. Global warming is my friend
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Junk Science
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
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An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
My My...it is getting warmer...OMG..we are causing it. BS
That there is global warming is a fact, denying that would be as absurd as denying our very existence.
In case someone is in doubt: THERE IS PROOF, WHICH IS ALMOST INDESPUTABLE. MAN-AIDED GLOBAL WARMING IS AS WELL PROVEN AS THE THEORY OF RELATIVITY (actually better since there was more research on man-aided global warming).
The proof is there, there is a scientific concencus and dozens of governments have been spending considerable sums of money for the past 2 decades to right the wrong.
What amazes me is that reacting against man-aided global warming is beneficial, whether it exists or not.
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µV
You're right! We better kill off all those damn cows causign our obliteration by expelling methane! Who cares if we destroy the ecosystem balance and cause the death of other grazing animals which will destry sustainable food sources! It matters not for methane might be destroying ozone!
Cut your nose off despite your face. Obviously you never read my posts so I will ignore you now. If you can't take the time to read about a topic you care about then you must live off buzz word media for everythign else. There are plenty of reasons to stop "possible causes" but why stand on the weakest argument when there are so many strong ones? Simple, you don't understand what is happening.
Everytime has two sides and just because there is two sides des not mean there is a right and wrong.
Read up on the ppk, In These Times, The Economist, Society for Sane Statistics and other proper resources before you make more of a fool of yourself.
By the way: You better start killing off those cows before they pollute more!
Hey Guess what buddy WE DO KILL THE F**KING COWS!!! AND IT'S CUT OFF YOUR NOSE TO SPITE YOUR FACE DUMBASS
ALSO we kill the majority of grazing animals in the world because we raise them on farms for food, if we didn't do that they would be more spread out and there would also be less of them to fart more! It's ALL and I mean ALL humanity's fault. We've been setting ourselves up for these times since our race left Babylon.
When are you guys going to accept it as facts!!! THERE ARE FACTS!!!!! PROVEN FACTS!!!!! Are you going to finally accept it when your yard is underwater?! Is oil really that important to you?! We had an Electric Car, except oil companies paid to have it destroyed so they could keep making money! Mankind will end all b/c some people are afraid to lose a few dollars.
OH NO! I sound like a crazy Liberal Hippie, That's because I AM!! Hippies live in peace with each other and the enviroment, just like buddhists, it's not hard, but I don't expect you guys to give it a chance. You're afraid of change only you don't realize without change, we'll bring the most drastic change our race has ever seen.
Oh well....I live near a river and I'm a swimmer Maybe I'll turn into a Merman or a shark or something cool like that. I'll eat all of you guys who didn't believe us when you come swimmng too
Hey genius above me...where did the energy come from to power those electric cars? They had to be charged from some source...yeah, that's kinda what I thought.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
What about using sun, wind, bio and nuclear energy for producing that electricity? Or why not make it even easier, just tank your diesel car with Ethanol or other similar bio fuels.
Did you know that the country of Sweden will most likely be totally independent of oil for warming, and transport by the year of 2020? And they are achieving this by relative low investments. Why aren't more countries doing this? What is the big evil of doing this? The end effects are only positive.
The question is not whether we are contributing to it, but whether we can afford to stop contributing to it.
Hippies would have you believe that a return to the dark ages is the way forward, or that science can miraculously create energy out of thin air that not only creates no pollution but also will not be used to heat the planet. As if somehow the human race is sustainable at this level of population without mass industrialisation. (Oooo big business is sooo bad. I hate it because I am a student and don't know anything about anything that isn't school).
Renewable energy sources, don't cut it. They are very expensive and don't produce sod all power. If you cover your roof in Solar panels you still won't have enough KW power to boil a kettle. You maybe be able to power a lightbulb, but only in daylight hours which kind of defeats the object. Likewise on a stormy day one of those little windmills can also run a lightbulb. This is the reality of Green energy. It doesn't cut it. It's a pipe dream. Take note that enything that is expensive to make is inherantly enviromentally unfriendly. Wind farms and solar farms are made industrially. Their very production effects the climate. As does their operation.
I believe in Energy Diversity as a strategic necessity but not as a solution to global warming.
In WW2 the government asked people to gather up their scrap iron to aid to war effort. People were encouraged to hand in their pots and pans, rip the metal railings out of their gardens etc. Everyone was pleased to do their part. It is of historical record that none of this scrap metal was used. Recycling it cost more than mining and smelting the raw stuff.
Today we have recycled glass points, and recycled knappy services. All to save the enviroment. The government has nationalised the recycled glass industry, and now instead of you returning your glass bottles to your place of purchase to receive back your deposit of 10pence, and the same delivery truck that brought the fresh ones taking the old ones back to the plant; every single person gets in their car and drives to the recycle point. The government charges us for this service. More money for them, more pollution for the enviroment, less money for us. Once again the (green) glass cost more to reclaim than it does to smelt from raw. The bulk of it is not used.
So go for it if you will, drive your little electric cars around. Die in your first car crash, crushed under a lorry as your dangerously underpowered car could not accelerate out of it's path and it's lightweight frame could not protect your body from physical impact. I will be sticking with my 4 litre marvel of engineering. Efficient, powerful, clean.
The reason why wind farms and nuclear power are so expensive, is because they are so useless. Inefficient. Green oil which is also very expensive, doesn't lower the carbon content of the atmoshere, it is at best neutral. Why shoot yourself in the foot for no practical gain? Better to use the cheap oil and spend the money researching serious industrial methods of atmosphere control. Better still to use the money to live the good life. By cheap Chinese goods, and keep the world poor fed through commercialisation.
Let the Hippies build their arcs. I'm not a sheep, I won't be following. I'll chose my own path. I'd rather swim.
The question is not whether we are contributing to it, but whether we can afford to stop contributing to it.
Hippies would have you believe that a return to the dark ages is the way forward, or that science can miraculously create energy out of thin air that not only creates no pollution but also will not be used to heat the planet. As if somehow the human race is sustainable at this level of population without mass industrialisation. (Oooo big business is sooo bad. I hate it because I am a student and don't know anything about anything that isn't school).
Renewable energy sources, don't cut it. They are very expensive and don't produce sod all power. If you cover your roof in Solar panels you still won't have enough KW power to boil a kettle. You maybe be able to power a lightbulb, but only in daylight hours which kind of defeats the object. Likewise on a stormy day one of those little windmills can also run a lightbulb. This is the reality of Green energy. It doesn't cut it. It's a pipe dream. Take note that enything that is expensive to make is inherantly enviromentally unfriendly. Wind farms and solar farms are made industrially. Their very production effects the climate. As does their operation.
I believe in Energy Diversity as a strategic necessity but not as a solution to global warming.
In WW2 the government asked people to gather up their scrap iron to aid to war effort. People were encouraged to hand in their pots and pans, rip the metal railings out of their gardens etc. Everyone was pleased to do their part. It is of historical record that none of this scrap metal was used. Recycling it cost more than mining and smelting the raw stuff.
Today we have recycled glass points, and recycled knappy services. All to save the enviroment. The government has nationalised the recycled glass industry, and now instead of you returning your glass bottles to your place of purchase to receive back your deposit of 10pence, and the same delivery truck that brought the fresh ones taking the old ones back to the plant; every single person gets in their car and drives to the recycle point. The government charges us for this service. More money for them, more pollution for the enviroment, less money for us. Once again the (green) glass cost more to reclaim than it does to smelt from raw. The bulk of it is not used.
So go for it if you will, drive your little electric cars around. Die in your first car crash, crushed under a lorry as your dangerously underpowered car could not accelerate out of it's path and it's lightweight frame could not protect your body from physical impact. I will be sticking with my 4 litre marvel of engineering. Efficient, powerful, clean.
The reason why wind farms and nuclear power are so expensive, is because they are so useless. Inefficient. Green oil which is also very expensive, doesn't lower the carbon content of the atmoshere, it is at best neutral. Why shoot yourself in the foot for no practical gain? Better to use the cheap oil and spend the money researching serious industrial methods of atmosphere control. Better still to use the money to live the good life. By cheap Chinese goods, and keep the world poor fed through commercialisation.
Let the Hippies build their arcs. I'm not a sheep, I won't be following. I'll chose my own path. I'd rather swim.
Nice to see you're admiting your ignorance by not replying to my previous reply.But I'll try to be polite and point out some flaws in your (lack off) reasoning.
I'll also try to intriduce a nice novelty: facts. Don't be startled as they sometimes may cause harm, but nothing denyal won't easily fix.
First of all, I was surprised to see you live in the UK. After all, it's the home of the influential and respected Stern Review.
Of course science can creat energy from "nothing". Mankind has been doing so for thousands of years. Or did you think (think... hahaha) that mills used to work on burning trees or something? Not at all.
You seem to think that photovoltaic (or the countless other ways to harnest solar energy) haven't evolved since... The twenties...
A bit arrogant and of course completely wrong.
A 1kW instalation will be able to produce about half of the energy daily consumed by the average family, on a normal day under normal light conditions (you of course knew that photovoltaic cells mainly operate on light, not on direct solar light) and in the average western European country.
If you were wondering, these instalations aren't manufactered by hippie communities but by large corporations (such as BP).
And "those little wind mills" produce a quarter of Denmark's energy, Globally, wind power generation more than quadrupled between 1999 and 2005.
The cost of wind-generated electric power has dropped substantially. Since 2004, according to some sources, the price in the United States is now lower than the cost of fuel-generated electric power, even without taking externalities into account. In 2005, wind energy cost one-fifth as much as it did in the late 1990s, and that downward trend is expected to continue as larger multi-megawatt turbines are mass-produced. A British Wind Energy Association report gives an average generation cost of onshore wind power of around 3.2 pence per kilowatt hour. Wind power is growing quickly, at about 38% in 2003, up from 25% growth in 2002. In the United States, as of 2003, wind power was the fastest growing form of electricity generation on a percentage basis.
Yes, those windmills are "expensive" but are low-cost on maintanance. Of course the life-span of a windmill will easily negate the negative effects of its production (which would be non-existent in a completely green economy).
Your comments on glass (and iron ore in WW2, which doesnt makes sense since anyone can name examples of recycling efforts in those days that DID work out) are unfunded and should be disproven.
Why do you asume electric cars are underpowered compared to fossil fuel fueled cars? That's a bit absurd considering many of the high yeld electric engines in our daily lives are using electricity. Why not? They're more silent, they have 98% energy conversion efficiency, are just as powerful as other cars, and despite their slightly higher purchasing price they are cheaper in maintanance and fueling.
Green oil? Is that how would-be rednecks are calling it these days? I hope you do know that according to EU laws most of the diesel has to be mixed with bio-diesel? Nah, you don't.
Wind farms are more efficient than fossil fuel based plants, with ease. So if I understand you correctly you would rather have the world cling to a nearly depleted, highly inefficient, highly dangerous, hard to come by (*cough* Iraq *cough*), and polluting energy source than have home-grown, efficient, undepletable, constantly evolving and easy-to)come-by energy?
Good luck defending that to your kids. Any of them have astma or alergies?
So please wake up. Smell the coffee and realize that you as a human being have the responsability to protect your species. Also...
It's gonna happen anyways, whether you like it or not.
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Since global warming will impact coastal areas most heavily, and since coastal areas have the highest concentrations of Leftist nutcakes, I can only conclude that global warming is a solution, not a problem. Face it, the coasts need a good dunking.
In fact, it makes me want to get out the cans of aerosol and spray some flourocarbons into the atmosphere. The sooner, the better.
Since global warming will impact coastal areas most heavily, and since coastal areas have the highest concentrations of Leftist nutcakes, I can only conclude that global warming is a solution, not a problem. Face it, the coasts need a good dunking.
In fact, it makes me want to get out the cans of aerosol and spray some flourocarbons into the atmosphere. The sooner, the better.
i'm hoping this is complete sarcasm?
yea..you never know on the internet..
You are using the same fallacious argument you see every time some proto-mystic wants to reject science and hold their unsupported opinions as fact. You insist that because science has yet to “prove” something that we should proceed as if it isn’t true.
First of all it’s blatantly fallacious to suggest that something be treated as false because it hasn’t been proven as true. Second, the scientific process doesn’t prove anything and it doesn’t claim to so. By demanding that it “prove” before you take it seriously what you are really doing is rejecting the scientific process, and only a completely gullible fool would do so.
For those interested this is how the scientific method works
1. Observation and description of a phenomenon or group of phenomena.
2. Formulation of an hypothesis to explain the phenomena. In physics, the hypothesis often takes the form of a causal mechanism or a mathematical relation.
3. Use of the hypothesis to predict the existence of other phenomena, or to predict quantitatively the results of new observations.
4. Performance of experimental tests of the predictions by several independent experimenters and properly performed experiments.
A Hypothesis that survives repeated testing and peer review gets elevated to the level of a theory, which is in fact the strongest statement ever made by science. If, in the context of a discussion involving science, you ever hear someone use the phrase “just a theory” or see someone insist that science needs to “prove” something before they will take it seriously you can disregard them out of hand. They don’t know how science works and are knowingly or unknowingly trying to reject science altogether.