Why u (mmorpg.com) hate wow?

AutemOx

I thought WoW was okay, I played it up to level 50 before stopping.  The world felt really smooth and friendly, even if most of the players werent.  My brother kept playing it after me, and I am just so glad I stopped, because all he does at level 60 is raids and it looks terribly boring, and he has me log on his character and jump up and down in battlegrounds so he can get honor points and buy the best armors.  Now with the expansion, hes thrown out all those items hes worked so hard to get within a few days of playing...  I have no idea how any WoW players are willing to put up with that.  I would never play a mmorpg that destroys hard to get rewards.

Ithuriel

I'll say this.  WoW is the Camry of mmo's.  Not necessarily that attractive, or appealing, or really special in very many ways.  But it works, it's reliable, it's popular, and now everything is starting to look like it.

Seriously, I play WoW, and so far I have enjoyed my time there.  I won't sing its praises or hammer its deficiencies, of which I see a lot of both.  But the fact is, while it may not be that great in any one area, it has something that works for everyone.  You can be a casual gamer, log in an hour a night or so, and find stuff to do.  Or you can be one of the hardcore crazy raiding bastards who hit lvl 70 within a day of TBC's release and now run around Outlands ganking everyone and making everyone drool over your flying mount.  I've played SWG, CoV, EVE, and Lineage 2, it just so happens that right now I'm playing WoW.  Overall, I think it's a solid game, and I'll probably continue playing it for a while, at least until something new strikes my fancy.

It's amazing success does bother me just  a bit though.  MMO's used to thrive on uniqueness, individuality, bringing a new system or skill set to the table, finding a previously untapped audience.  I am worried that devs will start to get lax, however.  When someone puts out a blueprint like this and sees returns previously unheard of in an industry, oftentimes it becomes easier just to copy that business model rather than invest the time, effort, and capital into a new one.  I will not sit here and say that WoW is the nail in the coffin of the mmo industry, but it has certainly changed the landscape to a great degree.

Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn




Nice speech, too bad it doesn't apply at all bub
[Insert game name here] offered nothing for me, from the very beginning I was highly disappointed, bored out of my mind, wanting to go back to [Insert game name here] or one of the other niche games that actually did appeal to me, offered some challenge, and didn't look like I was playing inside a [Insert type of graphics here]. No, [Insert game name here] was not the first MMORPG I played, no it did not inspire me in any way. And for the record, I tried it before I started frequenting forums like these and found out what the general opinion of [Insert game name here] actually was.
What good times were you reffering to? Perhaps the time I spent adding to my ignore list, untill finally the chat channels were eerily silent, but at least not filled with highly childish comments. Perhaps the time I spent deciding over what skills and attributes would benifit me the most, that is to say none at all, since its decided for you. Or maybe the time I spent grinding mobs exactly one level lower than me, each mob of course being a slight variation of the last one I faced. Or perhaps the craptastic quests with their highly innovative and dynamic storylines, all requesting that I do something as simplistically retarded as going out to kill 10 more of the same stupic creatures I just got done grinding on.


Everything you speak of here can be applied to just about every MMORPG here, which is why I change the name from WoW to insert name.
Any developers looking to [Insert game name here] for inspiration are taking a step backwards in development, the current harvest of MMORPGs proves that, nearly all of the games that were released since WOW were heavily "inspired" by it. Whenever a game comes out, I want it to have as little as possible in common with WOW, having niether the features, nor the massive crowd of immature subscribers.


And how is this WoW's fault? Because a company decides to copy WoW doesn't make it WoW's fault. WoW didn't inspire unoriginality, those companies don't care about their players enough to deliever something original. So you hate WoW for all the wrong reasons.

A.) Not true, for the above I am speaking from my personal experiences.

So am I, but they are both refer to as opinions since they are from subjective point of views.

B.) Plenty of games do not have, embody, or allow the poor qualities I spoke of.

Actually, they do, but as I said, they are opinions and they don't matter, just like yours.

C.) In praising WOW, you stated that future game developers should look to it as the standard for development.

Nope, I never said that or indicated it should be standard for development, but a new standard company should be reaching for, which is making games more general than exclusive. They don't have to bite WoW, but surely do need to make the games for everyone to enjoy than to make them for a small group of people.

D.) At no point in time, have I ever stated that I hate WOW. I personally dislike the game, and will seriously urge a brand new gamer to have a look around before buying it. In discussions like this, I will even strenuously argue against people like yourself who refuse to see the inherent flaws in the game you love. You like the game, sure, thats perfectly fine. But by damn, don't come in and tell the rest of us that we are collectively comeplete idiots for not enjoying the kind of game experience WOW offers.

I can apply the same statement, to every other MMORPG I've played. It's called perspective. Perspective and opinions are are empty statement from bias views that can't be used as facts to say a game is flaw or bad. I could say the same thing about Eve Online or Anarchy Online, but it would an opinion and nothing more. The same rule appeals to you and your statement.

So what we use to determined what a good game and bad is? We use factor on how well it appeals to a general audience. Seeing as the game appeal to a wide audience of people of various backgrounds, genders, races and ages, WoW is success and far from a bad game. Same could be said about GW since it players style was easy to pick up. Now any game that excludes other types of players only appeal to a certain of people like hardcore player than you have distaster. Look at their populations of Eve and AC1, they have 100,000 or less players playing them currently and games like GW, WoW and EQ2 have at least 200,000 or more players because their games try to appeal to a mass audience.

In your eyes and in your opinion, MMORPGs who appeal to an exclusive group are successful, but thank God not everybody buys into that bullcrap. And no, your your opinion (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't superside the 8 million people playing no matter what their background of gaming is. You're not a specialist, a gaming expert nor do you have more experience than any other gamer here (I care less how many games you played because frankly all the games are the same on some level or another.) Every MMORPG is the same game with a different skin. They all offer grinding, they all offer meaningless quest, they all offer a boss, some offer PvP and some don't. However, they have elements we've seen in other MMORPGs before. WoW may have not started the fantasy MMORPG genre, but it did something different...by making the games player-friending and appealing. If exclusive and hardcore games were the real deal then they wouldn't be racking up such low numbers and they would be the games with 8 millions players. Although, the MMORPG genre has exist for nearly 10 years, you have to remember, this genre didn't beome mainstream to the rest of the world until WoW and EQ2 commericalized their games. But before than, the game appeal to a small market of people and they rarely evolved due to the lack of competition.

I'm sorry your WoW experience was terrible, but I'm having fun and so are 8 million other people. Don't go making up imaginary stasitics like all the people playing WoW haven't other MMORPGs or every WoW player is less 17 or younger. You have no prove, no numbers and just pure BS and lies on your part to steer people away from the game so they come play more unpopular games with you. You believe that each person you steer away from WoW, that'll WoW will become less powerful and popular, but that simply isn't true. WoW will keep getting bigger and more mainstream while that person misses out on a good gaming experience because he or she listen to you. But you don't care, it's about pride, not about facts.

 

Aelfinn

Originally posted by Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn


A.) Not true, for the above I am speaking from my personal experiences.


So am I, but they are both refer to as opinions since they are from subjective point of views.


B.) Plenty of games do not have, embody, or allow the poor qualities I spoke of.


Actually, they do, but as I said, they are opinions and they don't matter, just like yours.


C.) In praising WOW, you stated that future game developers should look to it as the standard for development.


Nope, I never said that or indicated it should be standard for development, but a new standard company should be reaching for, which is making games more general than exclusive. They don't have to bite WoW, but surely do need to make the games for everyone to enjoy than to make them for a small group of people.


D.) At no point in time, have I ever stated that I hate WOW. I personally dislike the game, and will seriously urge a brand new gamer to have a look around before buying it. In discussions like this, I will even strenuously argue against people like yourself who refuse to see the inherent flaws in the game you love. You like the game, sure, thats perfectly fine. But by damn, don't come in and tell the rest of us that we are collectively comeplete idiots for not enjoying the kind of game experience WOW offers.


I can apply the same statement, to every other MMORPG I've played. It's called perspective. Perspective and opinions are are empty statement from bias views that can't be used as facts to say a game is flaw or bad. I could say the same thing about Eve Online or Anarchy Online, but it would an opinion and nothing more. The same rule appeals to you and your statement.


So what we use to determined what a good game and bad is? We use factor on how well it appeals to a general audience. Seeing as the game appeal to a wide audience of people of various backgrounds, genders, races and ages, WoW is success and far from a bad game. Same could be said about GW since it players style was easy to pick up. Now any game that excludes other types of players only appeal to a certain of people like hardcore player than you have distaster. Look at their populations of Eve and AC1, they have 100,000 or less players playing them currently and games like GW, WoW and EQ2 have at least 200,000 or more players because their games try to appeal to a mass audience.


In your eyes and in your opinion, MMORPGs who appeal to an exclusive group are successful, but thank God not everybody buys into that bullcrap. And no, your your opinion (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't superside the 8 million people playing no matter what their background of gaming is. You're not a specialist, a gaming expert nor do you have more experience than any other gamer here (I care less how many games you played because frankly all the games are the same on some level or another.) Every MMORPG is the same game with a different skin. They all offer grinding, they all offer meaningless quest, they all offer a boss, some offer PvP and some don't. However, they have elements we've seen in other MMORPGs before. WoW may have not started the fantasy MMORPG genre, but it did something different...by making the games player-friending and appealing. If exclusive and hardcore games were the real deal then they wouldn't be racking up such low numbers and they would be the games with 8 millions players. Although, the MMORPG genre has exist for nearly 10 years, you have to remember, this genre didn't beome mainstream to the rest of the world until WoW and EQ2 commericalized their games. But before than, the game appeal to a small market of people and they rarely evolved due to the lack of competition.


I'm sorry your WoW experience was terrible, but I'm having fun and so are 8 million other people. Don't go making up imaginary stasitics like all the people playing WoW haven't other MMORPGs or every WoW player is less 17 or younger. You have no prove, no numbers and just pure BS and lies on your part to steer people away from the game so they come play more unpopular games with you. You believe that each person you steer away from WoW, that'll WoW will become less powerful and popular, but that simply isn't true. WoW will keep getting bigger and more mainstream while that person misses out on a good gaming experience because he or she listen to you. But you don't care, it's about pride, not about facts.

 

Oh, goody, someone pulled the "it has more players, so it must be good" card, pure bullshit, as nearly anyone will tell you as it applies in any walk of life... Popularity does not, and has never, equaled quality. This is a fact of life, whether you are talking about a product line, a store, or anything else.

I do not at all like the gameplay offered by WOW, and I enjoy even less the games that were poorly made or altered by developers hoping to appeal to WOW's massive fanbase. You talk about evolution of the MMORPG genre when the facts show that WOW's influence has all but halted foward development, once again, I refer you to the list of games released since WOW.

I never made up any such statistics, I know perfectly well that older players subscribe to WOW. I do know that the community tends to act less mature than some other games, which highly suggests a greater tendancy to include younger players, but that is the most I will say on the subject, sticking to the facts. The facts also show that WOW brings a great number of players into the MMORPG genre that have never played any other MMO before, I personally know of several WOW players that couldn't even name another one. Perhaps you were talking to some other poor sucker with that last paragraph? Get your facts straight. Oh, and heres another fact, half of that vaunted 8 million are over in Asia, only 2 million Americans play, go ahead and call the Blizzard teams themselves liars on that one.

No one I know defines how good a game is by how popular it becomes, the only reasonable and sane way to judge a game is whether or not you enjoy playing it. I do not enjoy playing WOW, therefore I miss out on nothing at all by not playing it.

The player to whom I suggest looks around loses nothing either, if he prefers WOW, he will stick to it, if not, he will play a game he enjoys more. Would you suggest that he plays a game he doesn't like as much as one he never heard of before, just so you can keep your pride? I don't steer anyone away from WOW, I give people the facts so that they can make an informed decision, can you say the same by falsely claiming that every MMORPG is the same?

In any case, which would you honestly prefer? 25 niche games with players that are esctatically happy because the game's focus is on what they enjoy, or one in which everyone is lumped having only a bit of fun. It sounds like you would want the latter, which makes no sense at all from the standpoint of the general opinion that games are played for the sake of fun.

Emmeric

WOW has its good and its bad...

Found leveling pretty simple anyone with a few hours a night like me could find something to kill or people to group with do more harder quest for the decent items you got doing it.

I didnt find the pvp enjoyable at all wait 2 hours in a que get ported in a bg just to find out there was 4 on my side 10 on the other then u get message Game will end in 3 minutes...get ported back in que for hours more...

Pathetic at best..

I played Daoc since game release to bad all the x-pac's and countless hours farming drops for weeks on end as in WoW when u hit 60..

PvP in this game is more fun fast paced tower/keep to siege/defend...

Only problem i had was those who play 40 hours a week like it was a job had a Massive advantage to those who couldnt..

Im rr10 and your rr3 i have purge and ip you dont thxs for the realm points sucka..

If you could take Some of the better games out there with a little of Daoc's PvP system/format youd have a pretty good game.

Havent played many mmo's to see what there pvp is liek i have played UO/AC/AC2/Daoc/GW/DDO/WOW/SWG .... im sure i misse done or 2

Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn


A.) Not true, for the above I am speaking from my personal experiences.


So am I, but they are both refer to as opinions since they are from subjective point of views.


B.) Plenty of games do not have, embody, or allow the poor qualities I spoke of.


Actually, they do, but as I said, they are opinions and they don't matter, just like yours.


C.) In praising WOW, you stated that future game developers should look to it as the standard for development.


Nope, I never said that or indicated it should be standard for development, but a new standard company should be reaching for, which is making games more general than exclusive. They don't have to bite WoW, but surely do need to make the games for everyone to enjoy than to make them for a small group of people.


D.) At no point in time, have I ever stated that I hate WOW. I personally dislike the game, and will seriously urge a brand new gamer to have a look around before buying it. In discussions like this, I will even strenuously argue against people like yourself who refuse to see the inherent flaws in the game you love. You like the game, sure, thats perfectly fine. But by damn, don't come in and tell the rest of us that we are collectively comeplete idiots for not enjoying the kind of game experience WOW offers.


I can apply the same statement, to every other MMORPG I've played. It's called perspective. Perspective and opinions are are empty statement from bias views that can't be used as facts to say a game is flaw or bad. I could say the same thing about Eve Online or Anarchy Online, but it would an opinion and nothing more. The same rule appeals to you and your statement.


So what we use to determined what a good game and bad is? We use factor on how well it appeals to a general audience. Seeing as the game appeal to a wide audience of people of various backgrounds, genders, races and ages, WoW is success and far from a bad game. Same could be said about GW since it players style was easy to pick up. Now any game that excludes other types of players only appeal to a certain of people like hardcore player than you have distaster. Look at their populations of Eve and AC1, they have 100,000 or less players playing them currently and games like GW, WoW and EQ2 have at least 200,000 or more players because their games try to appeal to a mass audience.


In your eyes and in your opinion, MMORPGs who appeal to an exclusive group are successful, but thank God not everybody buys into that bullcrap. And no, your your opinion (or anyone else for that matter) doesn't superside the 8 million people playing no matter what their background of gaming is. You're not a specialist, a gaming expert nor do you have more experience than any other gamer here (I care less how many games you played because frankly all the games are the same on some level or another.) Every MMORPG is the same game with a different skin. They all offer grinding, they all offer meaningless quest, they all offer a boss, some offer PvP and some don't. However, they have elements we've seen in other MMORPGs before. WoW may have not started the fantasy MMORPG genre, but it did something different...by making the games player-friending and appealing. If exclusive and hardcore games were the real deal then they wouldn't be racking up such low numbers and they would be the games with 8 millions players. Although, the MMORPG genre has exist for nearly 10 years, you have to remember, this genre didn't beome mainstream to the rest of the world until WoW and EQ2 commericalized their games. But before than, the game appeal to a small market of people and they rarely evolved due to the lack of competition.


I'm sorry your WoW experience was terrible, but I'm having fun and so are 8 million other people. Don't go making up imaginary stasitics like all the people playing WoW haven't other MMORPGs or every WoW player is less 17 or younger. You have no prove, no numbers and just pure BS and lies on your part to steer people away from the game so they come play more unpopular games with you. You believe that each person you steer away from WoW, that'll WoW will become less powerful and popular, but that simply isn't true. WoW will keep getting bigger and more mainstream while that person misses out on a good gaming experience because he or she listen to you. But you don't care, it's about pride, not about facts.

 

Oh, goody, someone pulled the "it has more players, so it must be good" card, pure bullshit, as nearly anyone will tell you as it applies in any walk of life... Popularity does not, and has never, equaled quality. This is a fact of life, whether you are talking about a product line, a store, or anything else.

Dude, who are you talking to? I think what you mean is the majority isn't politically correct. You're the one who pretends that youspeak for the majority. When say anyone are talking about everyone? Again, this more of your opinion supersides anything, anyone says to you. Get over yourself.

I do not at all like the gameplay offered by WOW,

You've said THIS several times now. We KNOW, but you have to remember your opinion doesn't superside anyone else opinion.

and I enjoy even less the games that were poorly made or altered by developers hoping to appeal to WOW's massive fanbase. You talk about evolution of the MMORPG genre when the facts show that WOW's influence has all but halted foward development, once again, I refer you to the list of games released since WOW.

Please, present those facts.

I never made up any such statistics, I know perfectly well that older players subscribe to WOW. I do know that the community tends to act less mature than some other games, which highly suggests a greater tendancy to include younger players, but that is the most I will say on the subject, sticking to the facts. The facts also show that WOW brings a great number of players into the MMORPG genre that have never played any other MMO before, I personally know of several WOW players that couldn't even name another one

Let's see those numbers, please.

Perhaps you were talking to some other poor sucker with that last paragraph? Get your facts straight. Oh, and heres another fact, half of that vaunted 8 million are over in Asia, only 2 million Americans play, go ahead and call the Blizzard teams themselves liars on that one.

2.5 million American plays, between 1.5 to 2 million Europeans play and over 3 million Asian play this game, but stastistic are sckewed because many players in alll three countries have multiple accounts.

No one I know defines how good a game is by how popular it becomes, the only reasonable and sane way to judge a game is whether or not you enjoy playing it. I do not enjoy playing WOW, therefore I miss out on nothing at all by not playing it.

But this does not mean, WoW is a bad game overall because YOU don't like it. Lead him/her to reviews area and let him or her peer into the site reviews and see for themselves.

The player to whom I suggest looks around loses nothing either, if he prefers WOW, he will stick to it, if not, he will play a game he enjoys more. Would you suggest that he plays a game he doesn't like as much as one he never heard of before, just so you can keep your pride? I don't steer anyone away from WOW, I give people the facts so that they can make an informed decision, can you say the same by falsely claiming that every MMORPG is the same?

Facts of what? You haven't given any numbers, your stastistic are wrong and you're basing statements on your opinions of your gameplay experience. And yes, that person would lose out if he or she listen to you.

In any case, which would you honestly prefer? 25 niche games with players that are esctatically happy because the game's focus is on what they enjoy, or one in which everyone is lumped having only a bit of fun. It sounds like you would want the latter, which makes no sense at all from the standpoint of the general opinion that games are played for the sake of fun.

That didn't make any sense considering which choice does WoW fall under and what underrates MMORPG falls under.

Flemmonthang

If this were the WoW forums then we'd be bashing every other mmo for being "work" and "no fun whatsoever", but these are the MMORPG.com forums...Therefore it is meant to be a broader look at mmos.  Granted there are a lot of people on here that are Eve maniacs and that is fine, but honestly WoW was not and never was the first mmo to do something special.  If it weren't for EQ we wouldn't have a WoW.  There were other games that were probably the precursor to EQ, but  the mass improvements it made on the genre are undeniable.  Don't even get me started on what DAoC did for a lot of people, or the first versions of SWG.  All these were before WoW.  The problem with 8 million people playing WoW is that for most of them it is their first mmo, and just like any other first loves any other mmo pales in comparison.  People on here bash WoW because they can, and they will because everyone is in this for something different.  Tolerance and diversity people!  MMORPG staff are biased as much as we all are and if we want to hop on their bandwagon then great, if not then that is great too, but don't go pointing fingers when you are just looking for a reason to bash the rest of the MMO world other than WoW.  Heck I play CoH and love it, and take slack for it everyttime I post so......whatever.  My 2 cents.

Lastera

Originally posted by Flemmonthang

If this were the WoW forums then we'd be bashing every other mmo for being "work" and "no fun whatsoever", but these are the MMORPG.com forums...Therefore it is meant to be a broader look at mmos.  Granted there are a lot of people on here that are Eve maniacs and that is fine, but honestly WoW was not and never was the first mmo to do something special.  If it weren't for EQ we wouldn't have a WoW.  There were other games that were probably the precursor to EQ, but  the mass improvements it made on the genre are undeniable.  Don't even get me started on what DAoC did for a lot of people, or the first versions of SWG.  All these were before WoW.  The problem with 8 million people playing WoW is that for most of them it is their first mmo, and just like any other first loves any other mmo pales in comparison.  People on here bash WoW because they can, and they will because everyone is in this for something different.  Tolerance and diversity people!  MMORPG staff are biased as much as we all are and if we want to hop on their bandwagon then great, if not then that is great too, but don't go pointing fingers when you are just looking for a reason to bash the rest of the MMO world other than WoW.  Heck I play CoH and love it, and take slack for it everyttime I post so......whatever.  My 2 cents.

What you said didn't make sene.

vajuras

The real WoW players are too busy having fun they dont post here. Blizzard already has a great forum for them to post on that has way better features (shows your avatar, easy to copy/paste, supports that HTML standard that uses [url][/url] type tags, etC). ev1 I know that plays WoW only surfs the WoW forums and play it 24/7 even at work. Thats the plain simple truth there is documented evidence WoW has detrimented game sales. why would u come to this site if u had an MMO u loved? I know my WoW buddy wont play anything else evn if i offer to pay

Rodzilla

  I just dont like 100% loot based games. 

Flemmonthang

What about my post did not make any sense....seemed pretty clear to me.  Oh well.

Lastera

Okay that was unnecessary, I didn't throw any flame, troll or harass the guy/gal and I still got my post erased. My post gets erased because I ask the guy to show proof about the game he claims most people hate or haven't played any other MMORPGs. Why not just lock the thread because this whole thread has become heated dicussion.

wolffin

Originally posted by csthao

Originally posted by w175jab

I agree... I hope developers have the sense to not 'copy' WOW.



I have played it, I enjoyed it, I stopped enjoying it; so I stopped playing it.



I can break down the entire programming/marketing strategy used by Blizzard for you, but it's not worth my time.  With the incredible amount of money that Blizzard has generated and the current/future resources for MMO development they have at hand now will be interesting to see in the future.



However, I'm looking forward to future MMO productions in hopes that something new and revolutionary arises from companies such as SOE, CCP, Blizzard, Sigil, ECT.  Developers, large and small, deserve appreciation regardless of anyones opinions.



Cheers!

to me every mmo "copies" a little bit from one another even though the storyline is different they all got the same theme (kill, grind, quest,craft) and thats jsut how games are...i've played WoW like it for a bit and stopped playing, but i agree that they should make something new instead of copying from other mmo's...

but to me most haters seem to hate it due to its population...even though its 8 million strong that doesnt mean they dont play other mmo's while they play WoW...i can tell you that while UO was great back in its day i played EQ as well when it got boring...and switched on and off...everyone gets tired of playing one mmo, thats why theres so much variety you can alternate between...

but if they try to compete with WoW i can tell you that no one's going to break that record for a good couple years, but hey i bet thats what all those money bugging company will always try to do...hell WoW is probably in the guiness book of records for getting that much people to play, and i can also tell you that UO is in the book of records for the longest lasting mmo as well...so which game is better? who knows, people got thier own opinions...

i hate wow but not because its populations, i hate it because some great mmo's will never be noticed and shut down because they arent competing too well against WoW...

 

Can you name them or at least one of thease great MMO's that are getting shut down for us please?  The only games I have found that were good besides WoW were DAoC(great till they shot themselves in the foot) and Eve (growing better n bigger everyday). And more older players should be happy about WoW's success. If it weren't for WoW's success the market would not be drawing so many to make MMOG's for PC's they would be making games for consoles.

Ithuriel

Originally posted by vajuras

Blizzard already has a great forum for them to post on that has way better features

I would agree that their forums are well constructed, but I generally don't get called a stoopid nub who should lrn2play on this site, so i cruise around here lol.  Here you can often have a dissenting or differing opinion without your mother being dragged into the equation, whereas on their forums you can't step out of the box at all without having an encyclopedia of half-witted insults tossed at you.  I play WoW, I have fun in WoW, but that doesn't mean I don't hate the a large chunk of the community.  In fact the community is probably what's stopping me from having the most fun I've ever had in an mmo.  Just once after being beaten in a good pvp fight I'd like to have someone bow to me, instead of being spit on and teabagged.  WoW players, you know exactly what I would hear if I said this in-game, "QQ nub, roll pve server".

Lastera

Originally posted by wolffin

Originally posted by csthao

Originally posted by w175jab

I agree... I hope developers have the sense to not 'copy' WOW.



I have played it, I enjoyed it, I stopped enjoying it; so I stopped playing it.



I can break down the entire programming/marketing strategy used by Blizzard for you, but it's not worth my time.  With the incredible amount of money that Blizzard has generated and the current/future resources for MMO development they have at hand now will be interesting to see in the future.



However, I'm looking forward to future MMO productions in hopes that something new and revolutionary arises from companies such as SOE, CCP, Blizzard, Sigil, ECT.  Developers, large and small, deserve appreciation regardless of anyones opinions.



Cheers!

to me every mmo "copies" a little bit from one another even though the storyline is different they all got the same theme (kill, grind, quest,craft) and thats jsut how games are...i've played WoW like it for a bit and stopped playing, but i agree that they should make something new instead of copying from other mmo's...

but to me most haters seem to hate it due to its population...even though its 8 million strong that doesnt mean they dont play other mmo's while they play WoW...i can tell you that while UO was great back in its day i played EQ as well when it got boring...and switched on and off...everyone gets tired of playing one mmo, thats why theres so much variety you can alternate between...

but if they try to compete with WoW i can tell you that no one's going to break that record for a good couple years, but hey i bet thats what all those money bugging company will always try to do...hell WoW is probably in the guiness book of records for getting that much people to play, and i can also tell you that UO is in the book of records for the longest lasting mmo as well...so which game is better? who knows, people got thier own opinions...

i hate wow but not because its populations, i hate it because some great mmo's will never be noticed and shut down because they arent competing too well against WoW...

 

Can you name them or at least one of thease great MMO's that are getting shut down for us please?  The only games I have found that were good besides WoW were DAoC(great till they shot themselves in the foot) and Eve (growing better n bigger everyday). And more older players should be happy about WoW's success. If it weren't for WoW's success the market would not be drawing so many to make MMOG's for PC's they would be making games for consoles.

Going from 90k to 150k in one year isn't what I call get bigger or better considering games like GW took one years to amass 1 million players. If anything Eve was critical failure, not a success. These days a game that can't get 500,000 isn't a really good game. Again, WoW has set a new standard in gaming.

Brainy

Originally posted by Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn


In any case, which would you honestly prefer? 25 niche games with players that are esctatically happy because the game's focus is on what they enjoy, or one in which everyone is lumped having only a bit of fun. It sounds like you would want the latter, which makes no sense at all from the standpoint of the general opinion that games are played for the sake of fun.


That didn't make any sense considering which choice does WoW fall under and what underrates MMORPG falls under.

Well personally I think both of you are making very valid points.  I am still trying to decide which side I agree with most, but its very hard choice because you both are making a good case.

Anyways, I am a bit confused with this notion of niche games.  What exactly is that?  Would D&D pen and paper be niche?  Its sold millions of copies of its books.  UO a niche market?  It was most popular MMO at one point.  Is Daoc niche?  Because it got very popular at one point also.  I think this concept of niche games being better is a fallacy.  You said people are happy playing these Niche games.  I disagree, because if they were, then they wouldnt be playing WoW.  I dont think most people are perfectly happy playing WoW either.

I think most people would agree to rate just about any area in WoW a Top 10 concept/developed part of all MMO's.  Take the Economy, not very good imo, but then its not as bad as DAOC.  Take PVP, not as good as at least 4 MMO's but certainly not below top 10.  PVE raiding/groups somewhere in top 10.  PVE solo probably top 5.   Graphics is not the best, but not the worst again at least top 10. So on ..... 

My problem with WoW is that it doesnt have anything GREAT, except maybe bug free/smooth play.  Its a jack of all trades MMO.  I dont mind that exactly, but I really want an MMO that is decent in most things, but great in a few area.  Sorta like UO was.

To me is seems all games coming out just want to be great in Graphics, and nothing else.  These niche games, are those going to just have one great thing like crafting but suck at everything else?  Because I just dont see how people could be happy with that.

Aelfinn

Originally posted by Lastera

Okay that was unnecessary, I didn't throw any flame, troll or harass the guy/gal and I still got my post erased. My post gets erased because I ask the guy to show proof about the game he claims most people hate or haven't played any other MMORPGs. Why not just lock the thread because this whole thread has become heated dicussion.

You're quite bad about incorrect generalizations, I never once claimed most, or for that matter, that anyone hates WOW, even though I could have just as easily said so.

The most that can be drawn from my posts is that not everyone enjoys playing WOW, which is quite true, and can easily be proven just by looking around on these boards.

The second statement I made is also easily proven (once again, I never used the word most or all) , have a look at the total population of MMORPG subscribers before and after WOW's release. Those players didn't come out of nowhere, a significant portion of them are simply people who have not ever played a MMORPG before, which is why they don't appear on the charts before then.  The Blizzard name combined with the Warcraft IP brought in a lot of new blood into a genre that used to be nearly the sole province of hardcore computer gamers.

 

I will agree with you on one point though, our above posts getting deleted had no point

Shazzel

WoW Burning Crusade > all

 

Ive lost 3 stars just since it came out !

Aelfinn

Originally posted by Shazzel

WoW Burning Crusade > all

Congratulations on your opinion, I had no idea people felt that way

Lastera

Originally posted by Brainy

Originally posted by Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn


In any case, which would you honestly prefer? 25 niche games with players that are esctatically happy because the game's focus is on what they enjoy, or one in which everyone is lumped having only a bit of fun. It sounds like you would want the latter, which makes no sense at all from the standpoint of the general opinion that games are played for the sake of fun.


That didn't make any sense considering which choice does WoW fall under and what underrates MMORPG falls under.

Well personally I think both of you are making very valid points.  I am still trying to decide which side I agree with most, but its very hard choice because you both are making a good case.

Anyways, I am a bit confused with this notion of niche games.  What exactly is that?  Would D&D pen and paper be niche?  Its sold millions of copies of its books.  UO a niche market?  It was most popular MMO at one point.  Is Daoc niche?  Because it got very popular at one point also.  I think this concept of niche games being better is a fallacy.  You said people are happy playing these Niche games.  I disagree, because if they were, then they wouldnt be playing WoW.  I dont think most people are perfectly happy playing WoW either.

I think most people would agree to rate just about any area in WoW a Top 10 concept/developed part of all MMO's.  Take the Economy, not very good imo, but then its not as bad as DAOC.  Take PVP, not as good as at least 4 MMO's but certainly not below top 10.  PVE raiding/groups somewhere in top 10.  PVE solo probably top 5.   Graphics is not the best, but not the worst again at least top 10. So on ..... 

My problem with WoW is that it doesnt have anything GREAT, except maybe bug free/smooth play.  Its a jack of all trades MMO.  I dont mind that exactly, but I really want an MMO that is decent in most things, but great in a few area.  Sorta like UO was.

To me is seems all games coming out just want to be great in Graphics, and nothing else.  These niche games, are those going to just have one great thing like crafting but suck at everything else?  Because I just dont see how people could be happy with that.

Niche games are games that one style of playing fore example Eve Online is more of FFA PvP game than anything else. AC1 is hardcore MMORPG PvP with PvP looting. However, such games alienate every other player for one style of play and it's reason why most of those game have a population of 100k to 200k with the population either dwindling (AC1) or slowly rising. (EvE Online) They aren't smashing hits, but have enough players to keep the game going.

Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by Lastera

Okay that was unnecessary, I didn't throw any flame, troll or harass the guy/gal and I still got my post erased. My post gets erased because I ask the guy to show proof about the game he claims most people hate or haven't played any other MMORPGs. Why not just lock the thread because this whole thread has become heated dicussion.

You're quite bad about incorrect generalizations,...

What generalizations? What proof? Everything was erased. Your last post didn't have any evidence or numbers to back up your claims. You didn't prove it was most people's first game who were playing WoW because you based this on uncertified survey over the internet. You couldn't prove how many kids were playing WoW and somehow, your thousands of friends opinions superside the opinions of 8 million people.

You didn't prove anything that you and other hates have no real case and bash WoW for the hell of it.

Aelfinn

Originally posted by Lastera

Originally posted by Aelfinn

Originally posted by Lastera

Okay that was unnecessary, I didn't throw any flame, troll or harass the guy/gal and I still got my post erased. My post gets erased because I ask the guy to show proof about the game he claims most people hate or haven't played any other MMORPGs. Why not just lock the thread because this whole thread has become heated dicussion.

You're quite bad about incorrect generalizations,...

What generalizations? What proof? Everything was erased. Your last post didn't have any evidence or numbers to back up your claims. You didn't prove it was most people's first game who were playing WoW because you based this on uncertified survey over the internet. You couldn't prove how many kids were playing WoW and somehow, your thousands of friends opinions superside the opinions of 8 million people.

You didn't prove anything that you and other hates have no real case and bash WoW for the hell of it.

The incorrect generalization in the above quoted post, the one where you say that I claim that "people hate or haven't played any other MMORPGs"

The proof of MMORPG population can easily be seen from MMOGchart and other sites, which in turn are taken from gaming companies own published information.  That, and just about every single chart done on the subject confirms that a heck of a lot of people came into the genre at WOW's release that had never played any other game.

Incidently, I'm not talking about any of my "freinds", a significant portion of the people I mentioned as sources are quite happily playing WOW right this minute. Unlike you, they are quite willing to admit and talk about the poorer aspects of the game, including the community. In spite of this honesty to oneself and others, they enjoy the game regardless.

Thamoris

Why do so many assume that just because WoW has so many players ..it has to be good ?

American Idol had 8 million + viewers..thats no good

Rap music has 8 million listeners...90% of that is no good

Your local news gets 8+ million viewers...that actualy believe what is " reported "...and it's all mostly lies by omission / bias

Take that little old man in Alabama that plays the blues to 20 people on a friday night in some dive club in a dive town. Does he suck because he only has an audience of 20 people? ...likely to be the best damn blues you'll ever hear !!! is my bet

What about that independant film that released in 100 theaters...?? Often they beat the crap out of any King Kong block busters Hollywood comes out with.

Think about Britney Spears ...Spice Girls...Backstreet Boys...(back in their days...yes..im old )..Were the good because they were popular and made lots of money?

It has been my life experience...that 90% of the time...the " popular " entertainment is far from the best.

Baaaaaa...look daddy..!! Sheeple !!

" save the cheerleader...save the world "

twiztid19

I hope they make a Diablo 3.. 3d.. continue the storyline.. make it a bit better interfacing but just as fast gameplay.. might just be me but i love fast gameplay.

vajuras

Originally posted by Thamoris


Why do so many assume that just because WoW has so many players ..it has to be good ?
American Idol had 8 million + viewers..thats no good
Rap music has 8 million listeners...90% of that is no good
Your local news gets 8+ million viewers...that actualy believe what is " reported "...and it's all mostly lies by omission / bias
Take that little old man in Alabama that plays the blues to 20 people on a friday night in some dive club in a dive town. Does he suck because he only has an audience of 20 people? ...likely to be the best damn blues you'll ever hear !!! is my bet
What about that independant film that released in 100 theaters...?? Often they beat the crap out of any King Kong block busters Hollywood comes out with.
Think about Britney Spears ...Spice Girls...Backstreet Boys...(back in their days...yes..im old )..Were the good because they were popular and made lots of money?
It has been my life experience...that 90% of the time...the " popular " entertainment is far from the best.
Baaaaaa...look daddy..!! Sheeple !!
" save the cheerleader...save the world "

I dont know bout you but I have at least 4 coworkers on my team of 13 that plays WoW every chance they seem to get. if its not good well for sure its addictive. Ive never seen an MMO sweep ppl up like this. when you go to a resturant and you overhear a table of mid age women talking bout WoW you know somethings amiss. so anyway its cool to give your personal opinion but let's not be dense here- that game obviously has something good about it just go read the game reviews that MMO gets its higher then most any other out there. just noticed gametrailers gave burning crusade like 9.0