Just my 2cents but V:SoH will have a limited player base unless Sigil fixes some main problems with Sigil itself.
First, those that say Sigil developers are living 8 years in the past when they were King is absolutly totally RIGHT. Sigil has the absolute WORST customer support ever. If the game is to ever become a long lasting game then Sigil needs to come back to the customer level; answering player complaints, answering emails, and opening communication between the developers and the players. This crap about not having an official forum goes to show that the Devs really do feel that they are the decision maker and that the players will eat whatever the devs decide to dishup, it shows extreme indifference towards the players which will bite them in the ass.
The other main problem with the game is the horrible community, people would rather spit in your face then help you out. This will eventually level itself out as people come and go but currently the community sucks. Other successful mmo's have great communies. Yes there are immature players in every mmo, but V:SoH seems to have mroe than average which makes players want to leave the game.
The bugs with the game and lag is simply startup problems, EQ2 was impossible to play at launch b/c the lag between zones, and how many of those basic quest were broke and WoW zonning wasn't much better (remember Ironforge being the only center of commerce, what was the lag there to load in 3minutes?) Give the game 3 months to iron out server issues nad the game will run smooth.
This crap about not having an official forum goes to show that the Devs really do feel that they are the decision maker and that the players will eat whatever the devs decide to dishup, it shows extreme indifference towards the players which will bite them in the ass.
I do agree that there should be official "satellite" sites for specific classes, crafters, diplomacy, etc. There are some already but I dont know if every class is represented.
I don't agree that there should be one official forum. The players should not dictate how a game evolves but should be left to the developers. When a player community starts to control a game nurf bats get swung in every direction until eventually you need a complete overhaul to fix the mess. I doubt the forum runners of any game would be considered the majority voice.
Aside from a healthy customer support (I have had no problems yet) I hope that VG has various GM's in game to help people out and say hello.
If the game is to ever become a long lasting game then Sigil needs to come back to the customer level; answering player complaints, answering emails, and opening communication between the developers and the players.
LOL, Customer Support is 4 n00bs! H4rdc0re players can fend for themselves. It's a part of the challenge of the game ... if you need CS holding your hand, go back to WoW, n00b!
This crap about not having an official forum goes to show that the Devs really do feel that they are the decision maker and that the players will eat whatever the devs decide to dishup, it shows extreme indifference towards the players which will bite them in the ass.
LOL, forums are 4 teh n00bs! WoW has forums. I hate WoW. So I hate forums. Capiche? Go back to WoW now, n00b! /sarcasm off
Seriously, they do not care. Between the elitism of Sigil and the moar ubar than u krew from EQ and the oblivious and obnoxious SOE, anyone can read the writing on the wall.
It's a pity, really, because there are some aspects of the game that are quite fun, and I have played it quite a bit over the past few days and had fun with it but ... I dunno ... something is just missing. I'll have to think some more about what that exactly is. but it just is, and it's irritating.
This is about what I thought -- less than 100k at the moment spread among the servers. Not surprising in light of what I have seen in the game during peak hours.
Neither WoW or CoH had buggy launches. Both were very smooth. The problems WoW suffered was that it was so popular that the servers were flooded and you had to wait in queue to get on but the game ran great. CoH ran great at launch as well. I didn't play EQ or EQ2 at launch, but SWG was a major disaster.
I love this argument:
WoW wasn't buggy at launch, you just couldn't play it....
Oh now I see, I guess it was a flawless release, how silly of me.
Because without 200-250k there will be no profit which means no game. You gotta have a decent sub base. They could always sell it to SOE altogether but thats another story. but one which is possible and could happen.
Right, because AC has ever had that many subscribers? Or even close. DAoC at its peak did not have that many subscribers, and certainly doesn't now. I'm willing to wager most MMOs on the market do not have 125k subscribers. MMOs are very cheap to maintain.
They might have lots starting but i think let it settle down and after a year everyone will be tired with it and would not be playing anymore or quit on the first day. The rest will enjoy the game but i think it's going to eb a very small player base more like PS rather than EQ2. I think what's hurt Vanguard the most is releasing too early and not being ready + it's going to take Sigil longer than a year to get upto standards. People generally don't give games a 2nd chance so thats why it's hurt sooo much.
90% of people i know who tried it arn't playing anymore and most people do not like it. With everyother game out there and most people on WOW then Vanguard doesn't have anywhere to go. People who play EQ wont leave for this game on the whole too and people who loved pre cu SWG wont be drawn in tooo much with the game. With games coming out like AOC and WAR, even more people will be drawn away too in the near future.
I didn't want to post this here because of the vanbois but id be flamed for posting in general forums lol, i'm going to be flamed here anyways.
I told Sigil on beta forums releasing early would really limit their customers and cause servers to be empty + kill Vanguard for the long terms. Even games like EQ2 has loadsa empty servers and that has 250kish players "so SOE said a long time ago" though i don't see evidence of this.
To bad your comments don't mean much. I don't think VSoH will miss your one friend that decided to quit playing.
Um yall got it little wrong they already got the station acess subs .Soon as it went live it had all those even if it didnt sale one download or retail box they can claim those 200k + numbers.
Station access has 200k people? Hard to beleive. I would think around 55-60k at the very most.
About a year ago a SOE Dev slipped up in a interview and said that Station Access had about 50k subs. It probably went up a bit due to Vanguard but probably is still in the 50-60k range.
Because without 200-250k there will be no profit which means no game. You gotta have a decent sub base. They could always sell it to SOE altogether but thats another story. but one which is possible and could happen.
Right, because AC has ever had that many subscribers? Or even close. DAoC at its peak did not have that many subscribers, and certainly doesn't now. I'm willing to wager most MMOs on the market do not have 125k subscribers. MMOs are very cheap to maintain.
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Hm, I think at this time it is impossible to say for sure. I see however, servers are not really full. Most are low or medium at best. Some areas are really empty and many times. Try Kurashasa or Dwarf. I mean, empty for a start. A MMO should head for high numbers fast, because you cant expect peaking numbers after months.+
I know it is all very subjective, and since I like a lot of aspects of the game, I hope it survives and gets better. My big comparision to whom I judge VG is mainly pre-NGE SWG. I loved the sandbox part, the player cities and hoped to create a player city with my community. But, I see to many obstacles. The entire KOS thing prevents a lot of ppl to come together. Some just want to play Orc or Barbarian and not Dwarf or human as main, and they are far away and need that faction grind; sure, nothing that cant be overcome, but it makes those early days, where player weave networks of feeling they belong together difficult. And that is what a long-term game with long-term goals needs. The funny thing is, all those WOW bashers play VG exactly with WOW-ecpectations: fast pathed combat and zero sense for building something that lasts, a community. WOW is exactly that: fastfood for homeless characters. For me the question is, do I build a lasting life of many years with my house, my player city in this game or not? That is what I expect of VG. I want to stay many years and build my characters life there. But what I see atm are obstacles everywhere. Sure, they can be overcome. But what if that new guildie just loves to make a Goblin shaman, and you have to tell him he needs half a year levelling and faction grinding in all the various area before he even reaches us in our player city in Thestra?
When I entered SWG, I could just go to my new guildies, meet them, see the player city they just had begun to create... it was so wonderful. Now, people are spread all over the world. Sure, someday, they can get together. The question is how many will hold out months of being seperated. Some just dont want to buy a game with 19 races and then being forced to play Dwarf. I dont want to make it all easy-peacy, but it is a bit unwelcoming atm. Not to mention there is no world-spanning story arc which catches new players and makes them part of a world conflict or world-story where they have a place. They are tossed in a world. I maybe have the patience to follow that path, but I am quite sure a lot do not. Those are the big questions Sigil has to answer fast. 2007 will face many big MMOs, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan, Warhammer, to name just the most prominent. The buggy premature launch didnt help either, as the aggressive fan base on many sites. It MAY be the big hit at the end of year if Sigil gets to the core player's desires pronto. But I wonder how long they can pay 100 people who now assumingly work on VG when they obviously went out of funds? And as I said, servers do not appear pretty full to me.
We have to face one thing: VG servers need to be full. There are too many places which need groups. And nothing is a more likely suicide than starting to merge servers in the first year.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Hm, I think at this time it is impossible to say for sure. I see however, servers are not really full. Most are low or medium at best. Some areas are really empty and many times. Try Kurashasa or Dwarf. I mean, empty for a start. A MMO should head for high numbers fast, because you cant expect peaking numbers after months.+ I know it is all very subjective, and since I like a lot of aspects of the game, I hope it survives and gets better. My big comparision to whom I judge VG is mainly pre-NGE SWG. I loved the sandbox part, the player cities and hoped to create a player city with my community. But, I see to many obstacles. The entire KOS thing prevents a lot of ppl to come together. Some just want to play Orc or Barbarian and not Dwarf or human as main, and they are far away and need that faction grind; sure, nothing that cant be overcome, but it makes those early days, where player weave networks of feeling they belong together difficult. And that is what a long-term game with long-term goals needs. The funny thing is, all those WOW bashers play VG exactly with WOW-ecpectations: fast pathed combat and zero sense for building something that lasts, a community. WOW is exactly that: fastfood for homeless characters. For me the question is, do I build a lasting life of many years with my house, my player city in this game or not? That is what I expect of VG. I want to stay many years and build my characters life there. But what I see atm are obstacles everywhere. Sure, they can be overcome. But what if that new guildie just loves to make a Goblin shaman, and you have to tell him he needs half a year levelling and faction grinding in all the various area before he even reaches us in our player city in Thestra? When I entered SWG, I could just go to my new guildies, meet them, see the player city they just had begun to create... it was so wonderful. Now, people are spread all over the world. Sure, someday, they can get together. The question is how many will hold out months of being seperated. Some just dont want to buy a game with 19 races and then being forced to play Dwarf. I dont want to make it all easy-peacy, but it is a bit unwelcoming atm. Not to mention there is no world-spanning story arc which catches new players and makes them part of a world conflict or world-story where they have a place. They are tossed in a world. I maybe have the patience to follow that path, but I am quite sure a lot do not. Those are the big questions Sigil has to answer fast. 2007 will face many big MMOs, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan, Warhammer, to name just the most prominent. The buggy premature launch didnt help either, as the aggressive fan base on many sites. It MAY be the big hit at the end of year if Sigil gets to the core player's desires pronto. But I wonder how long they can pay 100 people who now assumingly work on VG when they obviously went out of funds? And as I said, servers do not appear pretty full to me. We have to face one thing: VG servers need to be full. There are too many places which need groups. And nothing is a more likely suicide than starting to merge servers in the first year.
dude. its only been out for a few days give it a little time.. people actually have to go to the store and buy it or have to wait for it to be shipped to their house or have to wait 8 god damn hours for it to DL on their computer..people arnt just going to magically apear the first minute the game launches.
Because without 200-250k there will be no profit which means no game. You gotta have a decent sub base. They could always sell it to SOE altogether but thats another story. but one which is possible and could happen.
Right, because AC has ever had that many subscribers? Or even close. DAoC at its peak did not have that many subscribers, and certainly doesn't now. I'm willing to wager most MMOs on the market do not have 125k subscribers. MMOs are very cheap to maintain.
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Station pass is this games only hope. The should have started with half the servers than they did. That way at least the populations would look better. It is easier toi add servers athan consolodate, that is the kiss of death for a game.
They might have lots starting but i think let it settle down and after a year everyone will be tired with it and would not be playing anymore or quit on the first day. The rest will enjoy the game but i think it's going to eb a very small player base more like PS rather than EQ2. I think what's hurt Vanguard the most is releasing too early and not being ready + it's going to take Sigil longer than a year to get upto standards. People generally don't give games a 2nd chance so thats why it's hurt sooo much.
90% of people i know who tried it arn't playing anymore and most people do not like it. With everyother game out there and most people on WOW then Vanguard doesn't have anywhere to go. People who play EQ wont leave for this game on the whole too and people who loved pre cu SWG wont be drawn in tooo much with the game. With games coming out like AOC and WAR, even more people will be drawn away too in the near future.
I didn't want to post this here because of the vanbois but id be flamed for posting in general forums lol, i'm going to be flamed here anyways.
I told Sigil on beta forums releasing early would really limit their customers and cause servers to be empty + kill Vanguard for the long terms. Even games like EQ2 has loadsa empty servers and that has 250kish players "so SOE said a long time ago" though i don't see evidence of this.
I predict oh wait just let me look in my crystal ball ok got got it , you dont want to know your future looks pretty grim indeeed
Just so those of you complaining about customter service know, I and several other people have had questions answered by brad himself on the affiliate forums. silky venom in particular seems to be one of the major hubs of dev activity.
I'm not sure if you can get higher up on the CS chain then speaking personally with the CEO of the company making the game.
Because without 200-250k there will be no profit which means no game. You gotta have a decent sub base. They could always sell it to SOE altogether but thats another story. but one which is possible and could happen.
Right, because AC has ever had that many subscribers? Or even close. DAoC at its peak did not have that many subscribers, and certainly doesn't now. I'm willing to wager most MMOs on the market do not have 125k subscribers. MMOs are very cheap to maintain.
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Station pass is this games only hope. The should have started with half the servers than they did. That way at least the populations would look better. It is easier toi add servers athan consolodate, that is the kiss of death for a game.
Uh, they already had to add a server, and the populations are getting to the point where they have another one waiting in the wings. At prime time, there aren't any low pop servers anymore.
Because without 200-250k there will be no profit which means no game. You gotta have a decent sub base. They could always sell it to SOE altogether but thats another story. but one which is possible and could happen.
Right, because AC has ever had that many subscribers? Or even close. DAoC at its peak did not have that many subscribers, and certainly doesn't now. I'm willing to wager most MMOs on the market do not have 125k subscribers. MMOs are very cheap to maintain.
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Station pass is this games only hope. The should have started with half the servers than they did. That way at least the populations would look better. It is easier toi add servers athan consolodate, that is the kiss of death for a game.
Uh, they already had to add a server, and the populations are getting to the point where they have another one waiting in the wings. At prime time, there aren't any low pop servers anymore.
I have seen no annoucement saying they opened a new servers and according to Station Players:
All the servers were created on the same day. However I did hear a rumor that there was a new one ready to go but I have seen no info that it has been released.
lets hope they get there 250k. as more mmo's fail, it limits the variety of the games to come in the future as less will be willing to invest in them.
I disagree.
1st, Vanguard needs 100k to be successfull, it won't be a failure at 100k! Second, we need to encourage games that are actually worth it, and a must-raid game is certainly not qualifying, especially not if they advertise about freedom and keep saying they focus about grouping and the core, while you still have to raid.
I said that they will get around 50K and I maintain these numbers, it will take them quite sometimes to make any profit if they run around these numbers; especially if it decline with time as it prolly will.
250k? Well, that would make it tremendously successfull from an economic point of view; and since they refuse to make the game group-oriented despite claiming it would be/is, I don't think it would be fair for game developpers around that are fair and honest. I know we live in a big world, but I do believe a little in Karma, and Vanguard has a very dark Karma atm.
50K is what they will get IMO, and it will take them YEARS to make it a profitable venture; which is a fine price to pay for peoples to stubborn to make a good grouping game while advertising around that. If BC wasn't release, maybe... but look like FoH cut the grass under their feet by helping Blizzard in the raiding department, too bad they screw WoW at the same time.
50K subscribtions is hard enough to make them understand, without drawing any blood. Yet, it would hurt and be painful, which would lead to them learning and making better games in the future, which is what we all want. Their ego are too huge, it has to be taken into the ego reducer!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Yes a new one has been added, Aldric, that atm moment is locked. There are now 14 total: 2 EU
1 Listed as RP
3 PVP (EU PVP, Team PVP and normal PVP)
8 Normal
More PvP variations for a game attracting PvE players? Wouldn't it be normal to have only 1 PvP set of rules and 4 variations of PvE instead? Look like these devs do what they enjoy doing, not what the players enjoy playing. A division of 10-1-2-1, that doesn't seem a balanced way of making specific servers. You should have bigger groups, to follow the mood and the desire of the players...not the mood of the devs.
(RP, "Normal", PvP1, PvP2...and that is it...so you have 1 PvE variation, and 2 PvP variations, since we don't count the "normal" starting basic; nor the location of the server...and RP isn't really a huge PvE consideration IMO, and RP is the ONLY PvE variation available...kinda lack).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
lets hope they get there 250k. as more mmo's fail, it limits the variety of the games to come in the future as less will be willing to invest in them.
I disagree.
1st, Vanguard needs 100k to be successfull, it won't be a failure at 100k! Second, we need to encourage games that are actually worth it, and a must-raid game is certainly not qualifying, especially not if they advertise about freedom and keep saying they focus about grouping and the core, while you still have to raid.
I said that they will get around 50K and I maintain these numbers, it will take them quite sometimes to make any profit if they run around these numbers; especially if it decline with time as it prolly will.
250k? Well, that would make it tremendously successfull from an economic point of view; and since they refuse to make the game group-oriented despite claiming it would be/is, I don't think it would be fair for game developpers around that are fair and honest. I know we live in a big world, but I do believe a little in Karma, and Vanguard has a very dark Karma atm.
50K is what they will get IMO, and it will take them YEARS to make it a profitable venture; which is a fine price to pay for peoples to stubborn to make a good grouping game while advertising around that. If BC wasn't release, maybe... but look like FoH cut the grass under their feet by helping Blizzard in the raiding department, too bad they screw WoW at the same time.
50K subscribtions is hard enough to make them understand, without drawing any blood. Yet, it would hurt and be painful, which would lead to them learning and making better games in the future, which is what we all want. Their ego are too huge, it has to be taken into the ego reducer!
Do you even play Vanguard? The game is group oriented.
If you do not play vanguard then you are just assuming based on your own biased view of the game.
I do play Vanguard and it has tons of group content. The dungeons are down right awesome to run. Haven't seen any raids yet. So, Can't speak on those. Other then to say Since I've been playing since Beta 4 I havnen't raided once or did I HAVE to raid. So it is hardley a must-raid game.
Anofalye, I used to consider you a pretty good poster but, lately you have been saying this type of stuff over and over and yet none of it is based on acctual fact. Why?
Do you even play Vanguard? The game is group oriented. If you do not play vanguard then you are just assuming based on your own biased view of the game. I do play Vanguard and it has tons of group content. The dungeons are down right awesome to run. Haven't seen any raids yet. So, Can't speak on those. Other then to say Since I've been playing since Beta 4 I havnen't raided once or did I HAVE to raid. So it is hardley a must-raid game. Anofalye, I used to consider you a pretty good poster but, lately you have been saying this type of stuff over and over and yet none of it is based on acctual fact. Why?
20% of the END GEAR is raid-only. Of course you won't see any raid for at least sometimes, but it doesn't change how it end. The path means nothing if the destination is hell. Any "grouping" that end poorly is useless, and worthless. The ending matter as much as the path. EQ teaches me that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Yes a new one has been added, Aldric, that atm moment is locked. There are now 14 total: 2 EU
1 Listed as RP
3 PVP (EU PVP, Team PVP and normal PVP)
8 Normal
More PvP variations for a game attracting PvE players? Wouldn't it be normal to have only 1 PvP set of rules and 4 variations of PvE instead? Look like these devs do what they enjoy doing, not what the players enjoy playing. A division of 10-1-2-1, that doesn't seem a balanced way of making specific servers. You should have bigger groups, to follow the mood and the desire of the players...not the mood of the devs.
(RP, "Normal", PvP1, PvP2...and that is it...so you have 1 PvE variation, and 2 PvP variations, since we don't count the "normal" starting basic; nor the location of the server...and RP isn't really a huge PvE consideration IMO, and RP is the ONLY PvE variation available...kinda lack).
What?
PvE is PvE...how many variations can there be? RP server is an RP server...
It has two different types of PvP rule sets..team and ffa.....
Do you even play Vanguard? The game is group oriented. If you do not play vanguard then you are just assuming based on your own biased view of the game. I do play Vanguard and it has tons of group content. The dungeons are down right awesome to run. Haven't seen any raids yet. So, Can't speak on those. Other then to say Since I've been playing since Beta 4 I havnen't raided once or did I HAVE to raid. So it is hardley a must-raid game. Anofalye, I used to consider you a pretty good poster but, lately you have been saying this type of stuff over and over and yet none of it is based on acctual fact. Why?
20% of the END GEAR is raid-only. Of course you won't see any raid for at least sometimes, but it doesn't change how it end. The path means nothing if the destination is hell. Any "grouping" that end poorly is useless, and worthless. The ending matter as much as the path. EQ teaches me that.
20% of ALL the best gear is raid...so...what your saying is you don't HAVE to raid to get good gear?!?!?! Since only 20% of the gear is gotten from raids that means that there is still 80% of it out there that isn't raid...Personally I like that. I mean at least I am not forced to raid to get good gear I can get it other ways...
I would also like to say that the Journey is half the fun. With only 20% of the game being raids..that leaves me a 80% end game that isn't raiding.
Comments
Just my 2cents but V:SoH will have a limited player base unless Sigil fixes some main problems with Sigil itself.
First, those that say Sigil developers are living 8 years in the past when they were King is absolutly totally RIGHT. Sigil has the absolute WORST customer support ever. If the game is to ever become a long lasting game then Sigil needs to come back to the customer level; answering player complaints, answering emails, and opening communication between the developers and the players. This crap about not having an official forum goes to show that the Devs really do feel that they are the decision maker and that the players will eat whatever the devs decide to dishup, it shows extreme indifference towards the players which will bite them in the ass.
The other main problem with the game is the horrible community, people would rather spit in your face then help you out. This will eventually level itself out as people come and go but currently the community sucks. Other successful mmo's have great communies. Yes there are immature players in every mmo, but V:SoH seems to have mroe than average which makes players want to leave the game.
The bugs with the game and lag is simply startup problems, EQ2 was impossible to play at launch b/c the lag between zones, and how many of those basic quest were broke and WoW zonning wasn't much better (remember Ironforge being the only center of commerce, what was the lag there to load in 3minutes?) Give the game 3 months to iron out server issues nad the game will run smooth.
I do agree that there should be official "satellite" sites for specific classes, crafters, diplomacy, etc. There are some already but I dont know if every class is represented.
I don't agree that there should be one official forum. The players should not dictate how a game evolves but should be left to the developers. When a player community starts to control a game nurf bats get swung in every direction until eventually you need a complete overhaul to fix the mess. I doubt the forum runners of any game would be considered the majority voice.
Aside from a healthy customer support (I have had no problems yet) I hope that VG has various GM's in game to help people out and say hello.
Just not worth my time anymore.
Vanguard population information
I love this argument:
WoW wasn't buggy at launch, you just couldn't play it....
Oh now I see, I guess it was a flawless release, how silly of me.
==================================================
Happy! Happy! Joy! Joy!
About a year ago a SOE Dev slipped up in a interview and said that Station Access had about 50k subs. It probably went up a bit due to Vanguard but probably is still in the 50-60k range.
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Hm, I think at this time it is impossible to say for sure. I see however, servers are not really full. Most are low or medium at best. Some areas are really empty and many times. Try Kurashasa or Dwarf. I mean, empty for a start. A MMO should head for high numbers fast, because you cant expect peaking numbers after months.+
I know it is all very subjective, and since I like a lot of aspects of the game, I hope it survives and gets better. My big comparision to whom I judge VG is mainly pre-NGE SWG. I loved the sandbox part, the player cities and hoped to create a player city with my community. But, I see to many obstacles. The entire KOS thing prevents a lot of ppl to come together. Some just want to play Orc or Barbarian and not Dwarf or human as main, and they are far away and need that faction grind; sure, nothing that cant be overcome, but it makes those early days, where player weave networks of feeling they belong together difficult. And that is what a long-term game with long-term goals needs. The funny thing is, all those WOW bashers play VG exactly with WOW-ecpectations: fast pathed combat and zero sense for building something that lasts, a community. WOW is exactly that: fastfood for homeless characters. For me the question is, do I build a lasting life of many years with my house, my player city in this game or not? That is what I expect of VG. I want to stay many years and build my characters life there. But what I see atm are obstacles everywhere. Sure, they can be overcome. But what if that new guildie just loves to make a Goblin shaman, and you have to tell him he needs half a year levelling and faction grinding in all the various area before he even reaches us in our player city in Thestra?
When I entered SWG, I could just go to my new guildies, meet them, see the player city they just had begun to create... it was so wonderful. Now, people are spread all over the world. Sure, someday, they can get together. The question is how many will hold out months of being seperated. Some just dont want to buy a game with 19 races and then being forced to play Dwarf. I dont want to make it all easy-peacy, but it is a bit unwelcoming atm. Not to mention there is no world-spanning story arc which catches new players and makes them part of a world conflict or world-story where they have a place. They are tossed in a world. I maybe have the patience to follow that path, but I am quite sure a lot do not. Those are the big questions Sigil has to answer fast. 2007 will face many big MMOs, Lord of the Rings, Age of Conan, Warhammer, to name just the most prominent. The buggy premature launch didnt help either, as the aggressive fan base on many sites. It MAY be the big hit at the end of year if Sigil gets to the core player's desires pronto. But I wonder how long they can pay 100 people who now assumingly work on VG when they obviously went out of funds? And as I said, servers do not appear pretty full to me.
We have to face one thing: VG servers need to be full. There are too many places which need groups. And nothing is a more likely suicide than starting to merge servers in the first year.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Station pass is this games only hope. The should have started with half the servers than they did. That way at least the populations would look better. It is easier toi add servers athan consolodate, that is the kiss of death for a game.
I miss DAoC
Just so those of you complaining about customter service know, I and several other people have had questions answered by brad himself on the affiliate forums. silky venom in particular seems to be one of the major hubs of dev activity.
I'm not sure if you can get higher up on the CS chain then speaking personally with the CEO of the company making the game.
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Station pass is this games only hope. The should have started with half the servers than they did. That way at least the populations would look better. It is easier toi add servers athan consolodate, that is the kiss of death for a game.
Uh, they already had to add a server, and the populations are getting to the point where they have another one waiting in the wings. At prime time, there aren't any low pop servers anymore.
But those games didn't start out with a $45 (EQ2's cost) to $75 (WoW's cost) million dollar deficit that they have to pay off. The higher the cost of the game the longer it will take to pay off or the more subs they need. Plus they have to pay SOE for their Servers, billing and CS, and pay their 100 developers that work for Sigil, rent and all the rest of the stuff.
Station pass is this games only hope. The should have started with half the servers than they did. That way at least the populations would look better. It is easier toi add servers athan consolodate, that is the kiss of death for a game.
Uh, they already had to add a server, and the populations are getting to the point where they have another one waiting in the wings. At prime time, there aren't any low pop servers anymore.
I have seen no annoucement saying they opened a new servers and according to Station Players:
http://vgplayers.station.sony.com/servers.vm
All the servers were created on the same day. However I did hear a rumor that there was a new one ready to go but I have seen no info that it has been released.
Yes a new one has been added, Aldric, that atm moment is locked. There are now 14 total:
2 EU
1 Listed as RP
3 PVP (EU PVP, Team PVP and normal PVP)
8 Normal
Just not worth my time anymore.
I disagree.
1st, Vanguard needs 100k to be successfull, it won't be a failure at 100k! Second, we need to encourage games that are actually worth it, and a must-raid game is certainly not qualifying, especially not if they advertise about freedom and keep saying they focus about grouping and the core, while you still have to raid.
I said that they will get around 50K and I maintain these numbers, it will take them quite sometimes to make any profit if they run around these numbers; especially if it decline with time as it prolly will.
250k? Well, that would make it tremendously successfull from an economic point of view; and since they refuse to make the game group-oriented despite claiming it would be/is, I don't think it would be fair for game developpers around that are fair and honest. I know we live in a big world, but I do believe a little in Karma, and Vanguard has a very dark Karma atm.
50K is what they will get IMO, and it will take them YEARS to make it a profitable venture; which is a fine price to pay for peoples to stubborn to make a good grouping game while advertising around that. If BC wasn't release, maybe... but look like FoH cut the grass under their feet by helping Blizzard in the raiding department, too bad they screw WoW at the same time.
50K subscribtions is hard enough to make them understand, without drawing any blood. Yet, it would hurt and be painful, which would lead to them learning and making better games in the future, which is what we all want. Their ego are too huge, it has to be taken into the ego reducer!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
More PvP variations for a game attracting PvE players? Wouldn't it be normal to have only 1 PvP set of rules and 4 variations of PvE instead? Look like these devs do what they enjoy doing, not what the players enjoy playing. A division of 10-1-2-1, that doesn't seem a balanced way of making specific servers. You should have bigger groups, to follow the mood and the desire of the players...not the mood of the devs.
(RP, "Normal", PvP1, PvP2...and that is it...so you have 1 PvE variation, and 2 PvP variations, since we don't count the "normal" starting basic; nor the location of the server...and RP isn't really a huge PvE consideration IMO, and RP is the ONLY PvE variation available...kinda lack).
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I disagree.
1st, Vanguard needs 100k to be successfull, it won't be a failure at 100k! Second, we need to encourage games that are actually worth it, and a must-raid game is certainly not qualifying, especially not if they advertise about freedom and keep saying they focus about grouping and the core, while you still have to raid.
I said that they will get around 50K and I maintain these numbers, it will take them quite sometimes to make any profit if they run around these numbers; especially if it decline with time as it prolly will.
250k? Well, that would make it tremendously successfull from an economic point of view; and since they refuse to make the game group-oriented despite claiming it would be/is, I don't think it would be fair for game developpers around that are fair and honest. I know we live in a big world, but I do believe a little in Karma, and Vanguard has a very dark Karma atm.
50K is what they will get IMO, and it will take them YEARS to make it a profitable venture; which is a fine price to pay for peoples to stubborn to make a good grouping game while advertising around that. If BC wasn't release, maybe... but look like FoH cut the grass under their feet by helping Blizzard in the raiding department, too bad they screw WoW at the same time.
50K subscribtions is hard enough to make them understand, without drawing any blood. Yet, it would hurt and be painful, which would lead to them learning and making better games in the future, which is what we all want. Their ego are too huge, it has to be taken into the ego reducer!
Do you even play Vanguard? The game is group oriented.
If you do not play vanguard then you are just assuming based on your own biased view of the game.
I do play Vanguard and it has tons of group content. The dungeons are down right awesome to run. Haven't seen any raids yet. So, Can't speak on those. Other then to say Since I've been playing since Beta 4 I havnen't raided once or did I HAVE to raid. So it is hardley a must-raid game.
Anofalye, I used to consider you a pretty good poster but, lately you have been saying this type of stuff over and over and yet none of it is based on acctual fact. Why?
20% of the END GEAR is raid-only. Of course you won't see any raid for at least sometimes, but it doesn't change how it end. The path means nothing if the destination is hell. Any "grouping" that end poorly is useless, and worthless. The ending matter as much as the path. EQ teaches me that.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
More PvP variations for a game attracting PvE players? Wouldn't it be normal to have only 1 PvP set of rules and 4 variations of PvE instead? Look like these devs do what they enjoy doing, not what the players enjoy playing. A division of 10-1-2-1, that doesn't seem a balanced way of making specific servers. You should have bigger groups, to follow the mood and the desire of the players...not the mood of the devs.
(RP, "Normal", PvP1, PvP2...and that is it...so you have 1 PvE variation, and 2 PvP variations, since we don't count the "normal" starting basic; nor the location of the server...and RP isn't really a huge PvE consideration IMO, and RP is the ONLY PvE variation available...kinda lack).
What?
PvE is PvE...how many variations can there be? RP server is an RP server...
It has two different types of PvP rule sets..team and ffa.....
/shakes head
20% of ALL the best gear is raid...so...what your saying is you don't HAVE to raid to get good gear?!?!?! Since only 20% of the gear is gotten from raids that means that there is still 80% of it out there that isn't raid...Personally I like that. I mean at least I am not forced to raid to get good gear I can get it other ways...20% of the END GEAR is raid-only. Of course you won't see any raid for at least sometimes, but it doesn't change how it end. The path means nothing if the destination is hell. Any "grouping" that end poorly is useless, and worthless. The ending matter as much as the path. EQ teaches me that.
I would also like to say that the Journey is half the fun. With only 20% of the game being raids..that leaves me a 80% end game that isn't raiding.