You might as well stop playin MMO's if you think there is ever going to be one released without bugs at launch. Sorry it just won't happen. Some bugs wont even show up until they put the massive amount of people on their servers that a launch entails. Every single MMO in history has bugs, that is just an accepted part of the genre. You will never ever have a launch with absolutely no bugs. Blizzard which is known for not releasing their product until it is completely done still had tons of bugs on release. Some were minor bugs, but some were game crashing major bugs, because Blizzard didn't know how the game and the servers would actually run until they were placed under a massive load of people.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
OP: So sorry to hear it did not go well for you. I to have a hardtime atm I only run well enough to play in off peek and out of town. I am upgraing right now and then i hope to be full on. Even the code must be improving as I have friends that say its getting better each time they go to play. I think if you shelf it wait upgrade it might suit you more at that time. All I can really say is that it seems to run well for the big rigs witch I hope to be here soon.
Also, I don't feel ripped off. I just bought the game last night and I have run into one bug so far. (Mob dissapearing while fighitng it.) The game reminds me of a mix of WoW and EQ2. I think it has a decent shot of being successful. I won't say yet if this will be my new game of the future, but I need something to replace WoW, which has just gotten stale and boring.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the new age where the consumer pays to debug the game. It's how this industry works, so keep that in the back of your mind when you are thinking of dropping that cash to purchase a new game. I think what most most people are forgetting is that when WoW came out it was 'state of the art'. That was several years ago, so of course it plays on most computers (those that are built for gaming), because most computers were built AFTER the game was released. Now that Vanguard is out, it is the current 'state of the art' game. It's using the latested technology available to run the game. And why shouldn't it? Why make a game that uses old and outdated technology? If you feel ripped off then I suggest playing another game, and selling your copy to someone else. But to be honest, any game that gets released will have bugs, so be prepared to be dissapointed everytime something new come out...
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the new age where the consumer pays to debug the game. It's how this industry works, so keep that in the back of your mind when you are thinking of dropping that cash to purchase a new game. I think what most most people are forgetting is that when WoW came out it was 'state of the art'. That was several years ago, so of course it plays on most computers (those that are built for gaming), because most computers were built AFTER the game was released. Now that Vanguard is out, it is the current 'state of the art' game. It's using the latested technology available to run the game. And why shouldn't it? Why make a game that uses old and outdated technology? If you feel ripped off then I suggest playing another game, and selling your copy to someone else. But to be honest, any game that gets released will have bugs, so be prepared to be dissapointed everytime something new come out...
I have read posts in this forum from Graphic Artists who point out where Sigil screwed up with rendering and how less would have actually been more when it comes to performance. I am not buying into the whole, "State of the Art" argument because that is just another excuse for its performance issues.
My raidleader in EQ1 has a saying whenever the raid starts "shortbusing" something. She says "what are you Lemmings doing"? I am asking that as well, what are the people who go out and buy games knowing they are unfinished doing? Things will not change until consumers quit being Lemmings and stop buying crap that is forced out the door.
I followed Vanguard since November of 2005. I had high hopes for its success because at the time I had left EQ and was in WOW and was already getting bored. My hopes were high up until the weekend prior to E3 when Sigil announced Microsoft had backed out and SOE moved in. However someone might feel about Microsoft, the company is not run by idiots. Something must have been wrong with Vanguard back then because Microsoft wanted Vanguard to be the next big MMO that would be the first to run on Vista and harness the full power of their new OS. Obviously, looking at Beta 1 and Beta 2 at that time Microsoft realized that this product needed far more development time and would not be ready.
Sigil had over five DAMN years to get this thing done. What happened???
I do not agree that consumers have to assume that a MMO will be released in this condition.
I couldn't feel more ripped off than I do now. Not only did I pay up for a subscription to get into beta early but I also ended up buying this half-assed game. Hype and my stupidity has beaten me this time.
I am not going to turn this into a review but simply say that if Sigil took more time finishing this product and at least created some official forums they would turned the so many disapointed who are basicly going to leave within a months time and those who have left already into long term suscribers.
I don't care what financial strain this company was in. Forcing a release on such a half-assed product shows poor time/money management by sigil.
I only hope other developers and sigil themselves learn from their tragic mistake. They will make a quick buck but in the long run the suscriber base will die to better upcomming releases. Such a shame since I was looking forward to this game.
Also I feel sorry for anyone thinking that the patches sigil is releasing are significant improvements to the game. So far the only difference has been some spells in different order. Crap spell effects updated to poor spell effects and a 2% performance increase. Far from making any significant progress.
Maybe 3-4 years ago a game like this would have been acceptable, but take away the enviromental graphics and you got yourself a huge disapointment.
... it feels hot here lol.. flame away suckers, but stop lying to yourself and take a good look and comparison to whats infront of you.
thats it..
R.I.P Vanguard.
ROFLMAO....
Thank GOD you're here to tell us all what we think, lol...
So I guess the constantly growing pop's and people I keep meeting who think it's an amazing game are ALL wrong. I guess the High Server Loads on ALL Servers during Primetime are wrong, or the hundreds of people in / around the main cities. How about the 20-50 people constantly crafting, or doing Dip in those cities, or how about the 8 other groups we had in EVERY dungeon we did. OR maybe it's all of the online game-sellers and local stores that ran out of the game to ship / sell, that must be bad.
Yup, this game is dead, no reason for you to here... bye, bye!
YES, the game was released too early. YES, it has bugs. YES, it IS VERY playable now, so move on.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
My raidleader in EQ1 has a saying whenever the raid starts "shortbusing" something. She says "what are you Lemmings doing"? I am asking that as well, what are the people who go out and buy games knowing they are unfinished doing? Things will not change until consumers quit being Lemmings and stop buying crap that is forced out the door.
I do not agree that consumers have to assume that a MMO will be released in this condition.
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the new age where the consumer pays to debug the game. It's how this industry works, so keep that in the back of your mind when you are thinking of dropping that cash to purchase a new game. I think what most most people are forgetting is that when WoW came out it was 'state of the art'. That was several years ago, so of course it plays on most computers (those that are built for gaming), because most computers were built AFTER the game was released. Now that Vanguard is out, it is the current 'state of the art' game. It's using the latested technology available to run the game. And why shouldn't it? Why make a game that uses old and outdated technology? If you feel ripped off then I suggest playing another game, and selling your copy to someone else. But to be honest, any game that gets released will have bugs, so be prepared to be dissapointed everytime something new come out...
I have read posts in this forum from Graphic Artists who point out where Sigil screwed up with rendering and how less would have actually been more when it comes to performance. I am not buying into the whole, "State of the Art" argument because that is just another excuse for its performance issues.
My raidleader in EQ1 has a saying whenever the raid starts "shortbusing" something. She says "what are you Lemmings doing"? I am asking that as well, what are the people who go out and buy games knowing they are unfinished doing? Things will not change until consumers quit being Lemmings and stop buying crap that is forced out the door.
I followed Vanguard since November of 2005. I had high hopes for its success because at the time I had left EQ and was in WOW and was already getting bored. My hopes were high up until the weekend prior to E3 when Sigil announced Microsoft had backed out and SOE moved in. However someone might feel about Microsoft, the company is not run by idiots. Something must have been wrong with Vanguard back then because Microsoft wanted Vanguard to be the next big MMO that would be the first to run on Vista and harness the full power of their new OS. Obviously, looking at Beta 1 and Beta 2 at that time Microsoft realized that this product needed far more development time and would not be ready.
Sigil had over five DAMN years to get this thing done. What happened???
I do not agree that consumers have to assume that a MMO will be released in this condition.
When a game is released that is not buggy, then we can assume that MMOs do not need to be released in this condition. I work in the Navy and even the software that is used to run our systems is buggy when we get it half the time. That means the techs from the civilian company coming out and patching it while it is running our systems. Software is buggy and will always be buggy.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I think if anyone in here doesn't have the good sense through experience with MMOs should know that none of these games are anywhere near complete at launch. The more things they offer the less complete it will be when it launches.
If you experienced MMO'ers want a more complete product you should know by now that you need to wait a few months after release. . .
They forced their release, you gave them your money; either play the game - now, later or not at all but please stop whining if you are not going to play.
Until all of us gamers get to a point where we can feasibly and actively protest games that release in a pitiful manner, with those protests actually being meaningful this stuff is just going to continue. Many developers are lax nowadays and I think see us as people that should be grateful to them that we are playing their game. . .and we are not being looked at as customers.
I couldn't feel more ripped off than I do now. Not only did I pay up for a subscription to get into beta early but I also ended up buying this half-assed game. Hype and my stupidity has beaten me this time.
I am not going to turn this into a review but simply say that if Sigil took more time finishing this product and at least created some official forums they would turned the so many disapointed who are basicly going to leave within a months time and those who have left already into long term suscribers.
I don't care what financial strain this company was in. Forcing a release on such a half-assed product shows poor time/money management by sigil.
I only hope other developers and sigil themselves learn from their tragic mistake. They will make a quick buck but in the long run the suscriber base will die to better upcomming releases. Such a shame since I was looking forward to this game.
Also I feel sorry for anyone thinking that the patches sigil is releasing are significant improvements to the game. So far the only difference has been some spells in different order. Crap spell effects updated to poor spell effects and a 2% performance increase. Far from making any significant progress.
Maybe 3-4 years ago a game like this would have been acceptable, but take away the enviromental graphics and you got yourself a huge disapointment.
... it feels hot here lol.. flame away suckers, but stop lying to yourself and take a good look and comparison to whats infront of you.
thats it..
R.I.P Vanguard.
Sorry you feel ripped off but there's alot of others out there who think it was well worth the price. Sure it could've used a month or two in beta to polish up before release but things happen, All mmo's or released prematurely unfortunetly due to the nature of the fact they can easily patch it after release. This is just the way the industry seems to work whether we like it or not. Don't get me wrong I love vanguard and will play it for awhile to come don't see any other mmo coming out that has my interest. So i'll be playing for awhile to come along with many others.
can i have your stuff? just email in game to Sorryufeel Rippedoff of hathor zi, or die in my area and i'd gladly harvest your corpse for some extra usable parts.
When will people stop making excuses for Game companies releasing 1/2 finished products ? , Sigil is the current in a long line of game companies that release a product that is not ready for the market and expect subscribers to stump up money whilst paying for an incomplete game, in the past at least some companies had the courage to apologize for the state of the game. But now its become the 'norm' people need to stop allowing this sort if thing to happen by either cancelling subscriptions and demanding money back on the box purchase or by filing reports with the FTC.
This is not aimed specifically at SIGIL, but they ARE the latest company to adopt this cynical business practice and it needs to STOP.
To you it may seem as people like me are making excuses, but to me it's just reality. For one there isn't one bug in vanguard that i've ran into that would have caused me to say it wasn't ready for release. none of the bugs are game breaking and they are pretty minor at that. Most peoples complaints are due to performance issues, but i don't have any with my system so i can't comment on that.
so in short if you don't like it, don't play. but don't make people try to listen to your point of view as a hater. people need to try for themselves by that i'm not meaning fork over the money to play but wait for a trial, or get a buddy key from someone.
When a game is released that is not buggy, then we can assume that MMOs do not need to be released in this condition. I work in the Navy and even the software that is used to run our systems is buggy when we get it half the time. That means the techs from the civilian company coming out and patching it while it is running our systems. Software is buggy and will always be buggy.
I know bugs will be there. But being in an unfinished and not a release candidate state are unacceptable.
A bug would be like buying a new Car and then having a recall on a headlight problem or something. Unfinished would be like buying a car and missing the rear axle.
Maybe, I am missing something? I have only been playing for a day or so and my friend for 2 days, but we haven't seen any of this incomplete game that people are talking about. Yes I have seen some glitches, but nothing I haven't seen in every other MMO released. I mean geez, DAoC released with Hibernia's dungeons not even being itemized. Talk about game breaking, We couldn't even compete in RvR when it started because our level 30+ dungeons only dropped money and nothing else at all.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the new age where the consumer pays to debug the game. It's how this industry works, so keep that in the back of your mind when you are thinking of dropping that cash to purchase a new game. I think what most most people are forgetting is that when WoW came out it was 'state of the art'. That was several years ago, so of course it plays on most computers (those that are built for gaming), because most computers were built AFTER the game was released. Now that Vanguard is out, it is the current 'state of the art' game. It's using the latested technology available to run the game. And why shouldn't it? Why make a game that uses old and outdated technology? If you feel ripped off then I suggest playing another game, and selling your copy to someone else. But to be honest, any game that gets released will have bugs, so be prepared to be dissapointed everytime something new come out...
I have read posts in this forum from Graphic Artists who point out where Sigil screwed up with rendering and how less would have actually been more when it comes to performance. I am not buying into the whole, "State of the Art" argument because that is just another excuse for its performance issues.
My raidleader in EQ1 has a saying whenever the raid starts "shortbusing" something. She says "what are you Lemmings doing"? I am asking that as well, what are the people who go out and buy games knowing they are unfinished doing? Things will not change until consumers quit being Lemmings and stop buying crap that is forced out the door.
I followed Vanguard since November of 2005. I had high hopes for its success because at the time I had left EQ and was in WOW and was already getting bored. My hopes were high up until the weekend prior to E3 when Sigil announced Microsoft had backed out and SOE moved in. However someone might feel about Microsoft, the company is not run by idiots. Something must have been wrong with Vanguard back then because Microsoft wanted Vanguard to be the next big MMO that would be the first to run on Vista and harness the full power of their new OS. Obviously, looking at Beta 1 and Beta 2 at that time Microsoft realized that this product needed far more development time and would not be ready.
Sigil had over five DAMN years to get this thing done. What happened???
I do not agree that consumers have to assume that a MMO will be released in this condition.
Ya blizzard had what how many years to make there game and 2 years to make there xpac Burning Crusade and its got bugs too instances that are totally bugged and unable to be finished , bugged quests i seen more bugs in blizzards game just spending one afternoon playing there bgs like falling through the earth been feared through walls in the horde base in wsg that was there the whole time i played and many ,many more. Like get off your high horse and open your eyes buddy all games have bugs they get fixed unless your blizzard seems like they let them slide for way to long
I think part of the problem here is that the people complaining about the "incomplete" state of the game had probably tested it a month or two ago. Any current bugs in the game are not "game-breakers". The only things that are really MISSING are:
1. Helms don't show.
2. Berzerker and Inquisitor classes were not implimented for release.
Other bugs/problems are minor inconveniences that most games possess upon launch. Things like broken quests/spells/items are always present, and there aren't that many of them. While it's not in the best possible state for release, it's certainly good enough to play while they deal with the remainder of the existing issues.
And to the OP: If the game was so "incomplete" and horrible at the end of open beta, WHY THE HELL DID YOU BUY IT?!?!? I mean, if you don't like it, then great, move on to something else... But don't come on and suppose to tell us what we all should think. You say there are "major flaws" and such, but you have no proof to back up your claims. I bet people who were in beta 4 or 5 could tell you what WAS wrong before release, but you'd be harder pressed to do that now. I was one of the people who complained when they moved us from beta 4 to 5 so quickly, but their changes were just enough to satisfy me that things were completed enough to start playing the game... And up through now, at level 15 adventuring and level 11 crafting, I have only had 1 quest that couldn't be completed. And they fixed that 2 days later.
(Looks at the Horizons box gathering dust on the shelf)
Oh, yeah, that's the one! Horizons was a gem in the rough that never got poished, too.
Sure, there are still people defending that game, too and look where things stand with it now. David Bowman, aided in no small part by a similar rabid legion of "fans", had all kinds of glowing promises to make. In the end, it was all smoke. At least this time, I didn't get snookered into dropping money on wishware.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
I'm feeling a real sense of deja' vu. (Looks at the Horizons box gathering dust on the shelf) Oh, yeah, that's the one! Horizons was a gem in the rough that never got poished, too. Sure, there are still people defending that game, too and look where things stand with it now. David Bowman, aided in no small part by a similar rabid legion of "fans", had all kinds of glowing promises to make. In the end, it was all smoke. At least this time, I didn't get snookered into dropping money on wishware.
Horizons was a complete piece of trash from the start. Their adventuring system was worthless and the only thing interesting in the game was crafting. And their graphics were 5 years behind the times. It should have been released around the time of the original EQ. No one wants to play a game where the only worth-while thing to do is craft (at least not anyone who plays typical MMOs).
When a game is released that is not buggy, then we can assume that MMOs do not need to be released in this condition. I work in the Navy and even the software that is used to run our systems is buggy when we get it half the time. That means the techs from the civilian company coming out and patching it while it is running our systems. Software is buggy and will always be buggy.
Wierd been playing wow for 2 years and managed to complete every instance. Yes wow has some bugs but not exaggerating as some others out there.
I did play wow since the stress tests started, when wow went gold it was unplayable NOT because of Huge amounts of bugs, but because wow was a victim of its own success. There were few servers for the amount of people who started to play. 2 years later and still blizzard has to make servers.
I have high hopes for Vanguard because i see it as a different game, one i can explore. However im gonna wait till Sigil gets it right before investing. I read the sigil forums before they closed em down, before and after they allowed info to be posted.
It was bad to see how everything just changed, pity that sigil prefered to kill the official fourms instead of listening to player feedback.
ill give the game 4 months before i join.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
Markn12's post makes my point. Here is a person who really loved the game but did not buy and is waiting since performance issues got in the way of enjoying the true experience Sigil tried to offer. WoW changed everything including the budget needed to create a great mmorpg. If you do not have the funds to develope fully stay out of the market. It may suck that smaller companies have a hard time in today market place but WoW changed that forever. Even with a smaller budget you would think Sigil with 4 to 5 years development could have released a polished game. Companies can no longer expect players to foot the bill for months of beta testing those days are gone.
QFT. It's a new day and MMOs are big budget now. It's kinda like when Star Wars came out and you wanted to make a cheap sci-fi movie like what was done in the 50s.... nada, doesn't work anymore. One MUST finish the game before release. There is no way around that anymore.
But then some may counter... "well, WoW had bugs and a crappy release, what about that?!" .... not the same thing as what is happening with VG.... I was there. WoW's problems were because they oversold and underestimated server requirements, and they had some agreement with a third party to provide hosting, and that third party was dragging their feet for a month (maybe... or they were just overwhelmed). All resulting in lag. But VG? Final day of closed beta.... crashing out of game due to a graphics/engine glich of some kind? mobs dissappearing yet still hitting you? Those are real major kinds of bugs that I never saw in WoW's closed beta, except at the very beginning. Those kinds of things were removed 5+ months before WoW's release.
But it is SUCH a barren wasteland now.... WoW is old and boring, and there are no other MMOs worth playing imo. I almost tear up seeing everyone defend VG so hard in the forums here.... so I would never blame the fanbois. Keep preaching fanbois, maybe you will setup a stronghold of subscribers that will gut it out, and hopefully the real powers that be (soe/sigil) will work their ass off to clean it up, or at least LEARN from it and stop releasing unfinished games.
Sad to hear you feel ripped off. However, many many people feel different, and are actually enjoying the game. Maybe the game just wasn't for you, which is fair enough. I can tell you're quite upset and may be exaggerating things. Personally I find the game to be making signifigant improvements, as well as being generally well made. Obviously the game has work to do, but I would argue that it's not as bad as you claim. Feel free to move on to another game where you'll have fun. If you're just going to be angry about the game, there's no sense in having you play it. We will continue to enjoy our game and thank you for trying it. Have fun!
SO let me get this straight......"You find the game making signifigant improvments" as a good thing right now? You also claim the game has "Work to do"????
Now I'm going out on a limb here.... but this product just got released??????? POLISH... is the way it should start...
The last thing you want to hear when you buy a bran new car is "They are fixing it", or "They have work to do on it"....lol.
Understand that most consumers expect a working or at least somthing that is more "POLISHED" when you first get it...(Based on what YOU said)... this product is not polished and has work to do on it?????
I have had my share of experience with MMOs from the old BBS days, to present... I can safely tell you that releasing a product in the condition you mention will cause most gamers, players or people that judge things for what they are may have a issue with this.
Pie in the sky program fixes and ASSUMING things will get better is somewhat bold..... if the product is so good then why does it need to be fixed??? Type thought.
Not calling you out man... but just think about it for a second.... because the OP has a very valid point about a product being launched with more POLISH then fodder or the premise of "Oh we will fix it, we promise".....But like you said.... " The game has work to do ".
I'm not sure what's worse.... accepting a sub-par product now (on launch) or expecting them to fix it after release in a timely manner?
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
When a game is released that is not buggy, then we can assume that MMOs do not need to be released in this condition. I work in the Navy and even the software that is used to run our systems is buggy when we get it half the time. That means the techs from the civilian company coming out and patching it while it is running our systems. Software is buggy and will always be buggy.
Wierd been playing wow for 2 years and managed to complete every instance. Yes wow has some bugs but not exaggerating as some others out there.
I did play wow since the stress tests started, when wow went gold it was unplayable NOT because of Huge amounts of bugs, but because wow was a victim of its own success. There were few servers for the amount of people who started to play. 2 years later and still blizzard has to make servers.
I have high hopes for Vanguard because i see it as a different game, one i can explore. However im gonna wait till Sigil gets it right before investing. I read the sigil forums before they closed em down, before and after they allowed info to be posted.
It was bad to see how everything just changed, pity that sigil prefered to kill the official fourms instead of listening to player feedback.
ill give the game 4 months before i join.
I would not wait too long before playing if you still want to play. Vanguard is a 1999 game released in the year 2007. Even without the bugs it is a piss poor game that not worthy of playing. Horizons had the same type of people proclaiming "how much of a blast" the game is. The only thing that Vanguard will succeed in is being an example to future game developers how NOT to make a MMO.
As I said before Vanguard is the same as Horizons however, Sony will keep it on life support like the rest of their collection of games with the exception of EQ2 which is actually pretty good.
Mostly a lurker but felt compeled to point something out. When you buy a "normal" computer game you get: some cardboard, some paper and a fancy bit of plastic. Putting that plastic into your computer you get a few ones a couple zeros and a lisance to run them in that spacific order. That is the product. If that product is an mmo, running that binary is useless without a server to connect to. Generally those servers are subscription only. (when you buy the box you typiclly also get a 1month free subscription) So you are not in fact playing a product, you are playing a service.(hey you even agree to terms of service!) You don't pay for digital cable and just watch the recever(cable box). MMO's are services, not products. No service will ever be running at 100%, because there are always ways to better it. That said it is logical to assume it will be at it's worst when it is first available. Early adopters always help shape the service in some way or another(depends on the company as to how). ehh my thought train just died it's 10am and I haven't slept yet. Just guess what I ment my point to be.
I agree with the original post. Though I didn't pick up my preorder. I waited till they required the key. Which was three days after launch, basically saying, "screw you" to all the online orders that didn't pay for two day shipping. That is one of the issues I am having with this game. That was just wrong but, SOE wants that dolla dolla bill. Why this is a crappy issue for me is because MxO gave us a month to enter our keys so our euro buddies could paly with us till they got theirs.
The real issues I had are....
Couldn't recieve tells from people outside my guild over 50% of the time.
Getting kicked from groups while crossing chunks.
Crossing a chunk just to have the server teleport me 1 km away to a lvl 32 mob zone.
Having to relog to accept an invite.
Not showing up in the LFG window.
(all the issues above would not let me advance in adventuring past what I soloed to which was 14 due to the fact that i could rarily communicate with people and, even if I did find a group getting in and staying in was impossible)
Kojans loot drop is much lower than the other two continients.
Evertime I got a new piece of gear, say a robe. It was the same robe just a different color. This was for all my equipment besides the staff ( I was a druid, after 14 levels I expect some variety).
Enemy NPC camping corpes.
Diplomacy quest bugged. I was to the point that i had two quest. One was to difficult to do yet and the quest that would advance me so I may have the skill to start the other quest. Well the quest I needed to advance was the horse quest. I failed due to the timer and no directions in the quest. Now I cannot retry the quest so I can continue. (So that is two spheres I can't advance in)
0 solo-ability. Yea the game is group-centric but damn, if you can't find a group to do your quest, your screwed. I spent 3 days at the same level grinding of wandering NPC trying to find a group. Also if you don't get to do your quest you don't get good gear.
Being a druid I had cloudwalk. It's pretty lame when melee ranged NPC can hit me with their weapon when I am 30 meters away from them in the air.
Enemies teleporting directy infront of me after my first attack ala SWG. The only difference is in SWG they didn't attack, it was visual. In vanguard they actually glitch infront of you. (yes monks have the ability to telport to a foe and attack. They wheren't monks)
Not being able to loot corpse underwater.
Crafting area is way to congested in Tanvu, Kojan. Just a 5FPS lagfest and I run the game on high settings and it's fine everywhere else. They should have made multiple building containing the crafting tables like the lesser giant starter city.
I could continue but, I need to wrap this up. Basically this launch was a failure for me. And I have beta and preordered every popular MMO since SWG. This was the worst launch for me yet. My guess is my character was bugged. I'm not going to start over because they can't fix there problems. I would prefer keep my money. I have actually retired from all MMOs (not CoH/V for social reason, all my friends play). I have gone back to consoles. I will wait for Huxley (a FPS MMO) on 360 this summer. Age of Conan (hack and slash M rated MMO) is going to be on the 360 as well. Also either the Marvel or DC MMO. I for get which was which. I this DC is going to the PS3 and Marvel in 360. I hope.
Atleast with consoles there will be no spec issues. It's a lot easier to develop a game when everyone has the exact same setup.
This isn't a rant or an overexageration. These are my experience with Vanguard. In 6 months I'm sure it will rock but, I will be in Huxley by then. I hope . All my friends have 360s anyways. :P
Don't blaim Sigil though. It's SOE pushing it out early. I have reinstated my Sony boycott. hehe. Which is hard working a video game retailer.
I found it amusing that this post was preceeded by one titled "I really love this game" or something to that effect.
Seems people have different experiences with the game. Mine have been mostly positive...so I continue to play. Sounds like some folks had a nightmare experience, hence their displeasure.
I'll make no excuses, games "should" be releases complete and relatively bug free....but this one isn't. I knew that going in... and chose to buy it anyway. The OP knew it as well... and bought it for some unknown reason.......
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
You might as well stop playin MMO's if you think there is ever going to be one released without bugs at launch. Sorry it just won't happen. Some bugs wont even show up until they put the massive amount of people on their servers that a launch entails. Every single MMO in history has bugs, that is just an accepted part of the genre. You will never ever have a launch with absolutely no bugs. Blizzard which is known for not releasing their product until it is completely done still had tons of bugs on release. Some were minor bugs, but some were game crashing major bugs, because Blizzard didn't know how the game and the servers would actually run until they were placed under a massive load of people.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
OP: So sorry to hear it did not go well for you. I to have a hardtime atm I only run well enough to play in off peek and out of town. I am upgraing right now and then i hope to be full on. Even the code must be improving as I have friends that say its getting better each time they go to play. I think if you shelf it wait upgrade it might suit you more at that time. All I can really say is that it seems to run well for the big rigs witch I hope to be here soon.
Also, I don't feel ripped off. I just bought the game last night and I have run into one bug so far. (Mob dissapearing while fighitng it.) The game reminds me of a mix of WoW and EQ2. I think it has a decent shot of being successful. I won't say yet if this will be my new game of the future, but I need something to replace WoW, which has just gotten stale and boring.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I have read posts in this forum from Graphic Artists who point out where Sigil screwed up with rendering and how less would have actually been more when it comes to performance. I am not buying into the whole, "State of the Art" argument because that is just another excuse for its performance issues.
My raidleader in EQ1 has a saying whenever the raid starts "shortbusing" something. She says "what are you Lemmings doing"? I am asking that as well, what are the people who go out and buy games knowing they are unfinished doing? Things will not change until consumers quit being Lemmings and stop buying crap that is forced out the door.
I followed Vanguard since November of 2005. I had high hopes for its success because at the time I had left EQ and was in WOW and was already getting bored. My hopes were high up until the weekend prior to E3 when Sigil announced Microsoft had backed out and SOE moved in. However someone might feel about Microsoft, the company is not run by idiots. Something must have been wrong with Vanguard back then because Microsoft wanted Vanguard to be the next big MMO that would be the first to run on Vista and harness the full power of their new OS. Obviously, looking at Beta 1 and Beta 2 at that time Microsoft realized that this product needed far more development time and would not be ready.
Sigil had over five DAMN years to get this thing done. What happened???
I do not agree that consumers have to assume that a MMO will be released in this condition.
ROFLMAO....
Thank GOD you're here to tell us all what we think, lol...
So I guess the constantly growing pop's and people I keep meeting who think it's an amazing game are ALL wrong. I guess the High Server Loads on ALL Servers during Primetime are wrong, or the hundreds of people in / around the main cities. How about the 20-50 people constantly crafting, or doing Dip in those cities, or how about the 8 other groups we had in EVERY dungeon we did. OR maybe it's all of the online game-sellers and local stores that ran out of the game to ship / sell, that must be bad.
YES, the game was released too early. YES, it has bugs. YES, it IS VERY playable now, so move on.
I'll start my own SWG... with Black Jack... and Hookers!!!
In fact, forget the SWG!!!!
"One word, Thundercougarfalconbird."
I have read posts in this forum from Graphic Artists who point out where Sigil screwed up with rendering and how less would have actually been more when it comes to performance. I am not buying into the whole, "State of the Art" argument because that is just another excuse for its performance issues.
When a game is released that is not buggy, then we can assume that MMOs do not need to be released in this condition. I work in the Navy and even the software that is used to run our systems is buggy when we get it half the time. That means the techs from the civilian company coming out and patching it while it is running our systems. Software is buggy and will always be buggy.My raidleader in EQ1 has a saying whenever the raid starts "shortbusing" something. She says "what are you Lemmings doing"? I am asking that as well, what are the people who go out and buy games knowing they are unfinished doing? Things will not change until consumers quit being Lemmings and stop buying crap that is forced out the door.
I followed Vanguard since November of 2005. I had high hopes for its success because at the time I had left EQ and was in WOW and was already getting bored. My hopes were high up until the weekend prior to E3 when Sigil announced Microsoft had backed out and SOE moved in. However someone might feel about Microsoft, the company is not run by idiots. Something must have been wrong with Vanguard back then because Microsoft wanted Vanguard to be the next big MMO that would be the first to run on Vista and harness the full power of their new OS. Obviously, looking at Beta 1 and Beta 2 at that time Microsoft realized that this product needed far more development time and would not be ready.
Sigil had over five DAMN years to get this thing done. What happened???
I do not agree that consumers have to assume that a MMO will be released in this condition.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I think if anyone in here doesn't have the good sense through experience with MMOs should know that none of these games are anywhere near complete at launch. The more things they offer the less complete it will be when it launches.
If you experienced MMO'ers want a more complete product you should know by now that you need to wait a few months after release. . .
They forced their release, you gave them your money; either play the game - now, later or not at all but please stop whining if you are not going to play.
Until all of us gamers get to a point where we can feasibly and actively protest games that release in a pitiful manner, with those protests actually being meaningful this stuff is just going to continue. Many developers are lax nowadays and I think see us as people that should be grateful to them that we are playing their game. . .and we are not being looked at as customers.
http://mentaltruancy.guildportal.com - Friendly Vanguard:Saga of Heroes Qalia based Guild.
Sorry you feel ripped off but there's alot of others out there who think it was well worth the price. Sure it could've used a month or two in beta to polish up before release but things happen, All mmo's or released prematurely unfortunetly due to the nature of the fact they can easily patch it after release. This is just the way the industry seems to work whether we like it or not. Don't get me wrong I love vanguard and will play it for awhile to come don't see any other mmo coming out that has my interest. So i'll be playing for awhile to come along with many others.
can i have your stuff? just email in game to Sorryufeel Rippedoff of hathor zi, or die in my area and i'd gladly harvest your corpse for some extra usable parts.
When will people stop making excuses for Game companies releasing 1/2 finished products ? , Sigil is the current in a long line of game companies that release a product that is not ready for the market and expect subscribers to stump up money whilst paying for an incomplete game, in the past at least some companies had the courage to apologize for the state of the game. But now its become the 'norm' people need to stop allowing this sort if thing to happen by either cancelling subscriptions and demanding money back on the box purchase or by filing reports with the FTC.
This is not aimed specifically at SIGIL, but they ARE the latest company to adopt this cynical business practice and it needs to STOP.
To you it may seem as people like me are making excuses, but to me it's just reality. For one there isn't one bug in vanguard that i've ran into that would have caused me to say it wasn't ready for release. none of the bugs are game breaking and they are pretty minor at that. Most peoples complaints are due to performance issues, but i don't have any with my system so i can't comment on that.
so in short if you don't like it, don't play. but don't make people try to listen to your point of view as a hater. people need to try for themselves by that i'm not meaning fork over the money to play but wait for a trial, or get a buddy key from someone.
I know bugs will be there. But being in an unfinished and not a release candidate state are unacceptable.
A bug would be like buying a new Car and then having a recall on a headlight problem or something. Unfinished would be like buying a car and missing the rear axle.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
I have read posts in this forum from Graphic Artists who point out where Sigil screwed up with rendering and how less would have actually been more when it comes to performance. I am not buying into the whole, "State of the Art" argument because that is just another excuse for its performance issues.
My raidleader in EQ1 has a saying whenever the raid starts "shortbusing" something. She says "what are you Lemmings doing"? I am asking that as well, what are the people who go out and buy games knowing they are unfinished doing? Things will not change until consumers quit being Lemmings and stop buying crap that is forced out the door.
I followed Vanguard since November of 2005. I had high hopes for its success because at the time I had left EQ and was in WOW and was already getting bored. My hopes were high up until the weekend prior to E3 when Sigil announced Microsoft had backed out and SOE moved in. However someone might feel about Microsoft, the company is not run by idiots. Something must have been wrong with Vanguard back then because Microsoft wanted Vanguard to be the next big MMO that would be the first to run on Vista and harness the full power of their new OS. Obviously, looking at Beta 1 and Beta 2 at that time Microsoft realized that this product needed far more development time and would not be ready.
Sigil had over five DAMN years to get this thing done. What happened???
I do not agree that consumers have to assume that a MMO will be released in this condition.
Ya blizzard had what how many years to make there game and 2 years to make there xpac Burning Crusade and its got bugs too instances that are totally bugged and unable to be finished , bugged quests i seen more bugs in blizzards game just spending one afternoon playing there bgs like falling through the earth been feared through walls in the horde base in wsg that was there the whole time i played and many ,many more. Like get off your high horse and open your eyes buddy all games have bugs they get fixed unless your blizzard seems like they let them slide for way to long
I think part of the problem here is that the people complaining about the "incomplete" state of the game had probably tested it a month or two ago. Any current bugs in the game are not "game-breakers". The only things that are really MISSING are:
1. Helms don't show.
2. Berzerker and Inquisitor classes were not implimented for release.
Other bugs/problems are minor inconveniences that most games possess upon launch. Things like broken quests/spells/items are always present, and there aren't that many of them. While it's not in the best possible state for release, it's certainly good enough to play while they deal with the remainder of the existing issues.
And to the OP: If the game was so "incomplete" and horrible at the end of open beta, WHY THE HELL DID YOU BUY IT?!?!? I mean, if you don't like it, then great, move on to something else... But don't come on and suppose to tell us what we all should think. You say there are "major flaws" and such, but you have no proof to back up your claims. I bet people who were in beta 4 or 5 could tell you what WAS wrong before release, but you'd be harder pressed to do that now. I was one of the people who complained when they moved us from beta 4 to 5 so quickly, but their changes were just enough to satisfy me that things were completed enough to start playing the game... And up through now, at level 15 adventuring and level 11 crafting, I have only had 1 quest that couldn't be completed. And they fixed that 2 days later.
I'm feeling a real sense of deja' vu.
(Looks at the Horizons box gathering dust on the shelf)
Oh, yeah, that's the one! Horizons was a gem in the rough that never got poished, too.
Sure, there are still people defending that game, too and look where things stand with it now. David Bowman, aided in no small part by a similar rabid legion of "fans", had all kinds of glowing promises to make. In the end, it was all smoke. At least this time, I didn't get snookered into dropping money on wishware.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Wierd been playing wow for 2 years and managed to complete every instance. Yes wow has some bugs but not exaggerating as some others out there.
I did play wow since the stress tests started, when wow went gold it was unplayable NOT because of Huge amounts of bugs, but because wow was a victim of its own success. There were few servers for the amount of people who started to play. 2 years later and still blizzard has to make servers.
I have high hopes for Vanguard because i see it as a different game, one i can explore. However im gonna wait till Sigil gets it right before investing. I read the sigil forums before they closed em down, before and after they allowed info to be posted.
It was bad to see how everything just changed, pity that sigil prefered to kill the official fourms instead of listening to player feedback.
ill give the game 4 months before i join.
Watching Fanbois drop their soap in a prison full of desperate men.
But then some may counter... "well, WoW had bugs and a crappy release, what about that?!" .... not the same thing as what is happening with VG.... I was there. WoW's problems were because they oversold and underestimated server requirements, and they had some agreement with a third party to provide hosting, and that third party was dragging their feet for a month (maybe... or they were just overwhelmed). All resulting in lag. But VG? Final day of closed beta.... crashing out of game due to a graphics/engine glich of some kind? mobs dissappearing yet still hitting you? Those are real major kinds of bugs that I never saw in WoW's closed beta, except at the very beginning. Those kinds of things were removed 5+ months before WoW's release.
But it is SUCH a barren wasteland now.... WoW is old and boring, and there are no other MMOs worth playing imo. I almost tear up seeing everyone defend VG so hard in the forums here.... so I would never blame the fanbois. Keep preaching fanbois, maybe you will setup a stronghold of subscribers that will gut it out, and hopefully the real powers that be (soe/sigil) will work their ass off to clean it up, or at least LEARN from it and stop releasing unfinished games.
SO let me get this straight......"You find the game making signifigant improvments" as a good thing right now? You also claim the game has "Work to do"????
Now I'm going out on a limb here.... but this product just got released??????? POLISH... is the way it should start...
The last thing you want to hear when you buy a bran new car is "They are fixing it", or "They have work to do on it"....lol.
Understand that most consumers expect a working or at least somthing that is more "POLISHED" when you first get it...(Based on what YOU said)... this product is not polished and has work to do on it?????
I have had my share of experience with MMOs from the old BBS days, to present... I can safely tell you that releasing a product in the condition you mention will cause most gamers, players or people that judge things for what they are may have a issue with this.
Pie in the sky program fixes and ASSUMING things will get better is somewhat bold..... if the product is so good then why does it need to be fixed??? Type thought.
Not calling you out man... but just think about it for a second.... because the OP has a very valid point about a product being launched with more POLISH then fodder or the premise of "Oh we will fix it, we promise".....But like you said.... " The game has work to do ".
I'm not sure what's worse.... accepting a sub-par product now (on launch) or expecting them to fix it after release in a timely manner?
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Wierd been playing wow for 2 years and managed to complete every instance. Yes wow has some bugs but not exaggerating as some others out there.
I did play wow since the stress tests started, when wow went gold it was unplayable NOT because of Huge amounts of bugs, but because wow was a victim of its own success. There were few servers for the amount of people who started to play. 2 years later and still blizzard has to make servers.
I have high hopes for Vanguard because i see it as a different game, one i can explore. However im gonna wait till Sigil gets it right before investing. I read the sigil forums before they closed em down, before and after they allowed info to be posted.
It was bad to see how everything just changed, pity that sigil prefered to kill the official fourms instead of listening to player feedback.
ill give the game 4 months before i join.
I would not wait too long before playing if you still want to play. Vanguard is a 1999 game released in the year 2007. Even without the bugs it is a piss poor game that not worthy of playing. Horizons had the same type of people proclaiming "how much of a blast" the game is. The only thing that Vanguard will succeed in is being an example to future game developers how NOT to make a MMO.
As I said before Vanguard is the same as Horizons however, Sony will keep it on life support like the rest of their collection of games with the exception of EQ2 which is actually pretty good.
This time next year this forum will look like this --> http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/category/103
Mostly a lurker but felt compeled to point something out.
When you buy a "normal" computer game you get: some cardboard, some paper and a fancy bit of plastic.
Putting that plastic into your computer you get a few ones a couple zeros and a lisance to run them in that spacific order.
That is the product.
If that product is an mmo, running that binary is useless without a server to connect to.
Generally those servers are subscription only.
(when you buy the box you typiclly also get a 1month free subscription)
So you are not in fact playing a product, you are playing a service.(hey you even agree to terms of service!)
You don't pay for digital cable and just watch the recever(cable box).
MMO's are services, not products. No service will ever be running at 100%, because there are always ways to better it. That said it is logical to assume it will be at it's worst when it is first available. Early adopters always help shape the service in some way or another(depends on the company as to how).
ehh my thought train just died it's 10am and I haven't slept yet. Just guess what I ment my point to be.
I agree with the original post. Though I didn't pick up my preorder. I waited till they required the key. Which was three days after launch, basically saying, "screw you" to all the online orders that didn't pay for two day shipping. That is one of the issues I am having with this game. That was just wrong but, SOE wants that dolla dolla bill. Why this is a crappy issue for me is because MxO gave us a month to enter our keys so our euro buddies could paly with us till they got theirs.
The real issues I had are....
Couldn't recieve tells from people outside my guild over 50% of the time.
Getting kicked from groups while crossing chunks.
Crossing a chunk just to have the server teleport me 1 km away to a lvl 32 mob zone.
Having to relog to accept an invite.
Not showing up in the LFG window.
(all the issues above would not let me advance in adventuring past what I soloed to which was 14 due to the fact that i could rarily communicate with people and, even if I did find a group getting in and staying in was impossible)
Kojans loot drop is much lower than the other two continients.
Evertime I got a new piece of gear, say a robe. It was the same robe just a different color. This was for all my equipment besides the staff ( I was a druid, after 14 levels I expect some variety).
Enemy NPC camping corpes.
Diplomacy quest bugged. I was to the point that i had two quest. One was to difficult to do yet and the quest that would advance me so I may have the skill to start the other quest. Well the quest I needed to advance was the horse quest. I failed due to the timer and no directions in the quest. Now I cannot retry the quest so I can continue. (So that is two spheres I can't advance in)
0 solo-ability. Yea the game is group-centric but damn, if you can't find a group to do your quest, your screwed. I spent 3 days at the same level grinding of wandering NPC trying to find a group. Also if you don't get to do your quest you don't get good gear.
Being a druid I had cloudwalk. It's pretty lame when melee ranged NPC can hit me with their weapon when I am 30 meters away from them in the air.
Enemies teleporting directy infront of me after my first attack ala SWG. The only difference is in SWG they didn't attack, it was visual. In vanguard they actually glitch infront of you. (yes monks have the ability to telport to a foe and attack. They wheren't monks)
Not being able to loot corpse underwater.
Crafting area is way to congested in Tanvu, Kojan. Just a 5FPS lagfest and I run the game on high settings and it's fine everywhere else. They should have made multiple building containing the crafting tables like the lesser giant starter city.
I could continue but, I need to wrap this up. Basically this launch was a failure for me. And I have beta and preordered every popular MMO since SWG. This was the worst launch for me yet. My guess is my character was bugged. I'm not going to start over because they can't fix there problems. I would prefer keep my money. I have actually retired from all MMOs (not CoH/V for social reason, all my friends play). I have gone back to consoles. I will wait for Huxley (a FPS MMO) on 360 this summer. Age of Conan (hack and slash M rated MMO) is going to be on the 360 as well. Also either the Marvel or DC MMO. I for get which was which. I this DC is going to the PS3 and Marvel in 360. I hope.
Atleast with consoles there will be no spec issues. It's a lot easier to develop a game when everyone has the exact same setup.
This isn't a rant or an overexageration. These are my experience with Vanguard. In 6 months I'm sure it will rock but, I will be in Huxley by then. I hope
. All my friends have 360s anyways. :P
Don't blaim Sigil though. It's SOE pushing it out early. I have reinstated my Sony boycott. hehe. Which is hard working a video game retailer.
I found it amusing that this post was preceeded by one titled "I really love this game" or something to that effect.
Seems people have different experiences with the game. Mine have been mostly positive...so I continue to play. Sounds like some folks had a nightmare experience, hence their displeasure.
I'll make no excuses, games "should" be releases complete and relatively bug free....but this one isn't. I knew that going in... and chose to buy it anyway. The OP knew it as well... and bought it for some unknown reason.......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Sigil was running out of money, so they had to release. I can understand that.
What I can't accept is the way they've completely cut off any feedback from their customers.