Couldn't recieve tells from people outside my guild over 50% of the time.
Never happened to me and never heard anyone complain of that before.
Getting kicked from groups while crossing chunks.
Again...Never happened to me or any group I have been a part of.
Crossing a chunk just to have the server teleport me 1 km away to a lvl 32 mob zone.
Nope...havent been teleported....
Having to relog to accept an invite.
Invite works fine for me.
Not showing up in the LFG window.
Happened to me one time.
(all the issues above would not let me advance in adventuring past what I soloed to which was 14 due to the fact that i could rarily communicate with people and, even if I did find a group getting in and staying in was impossible)
Kojans loot drop is much lower than the other two continients. Really. Thats interesting almost in a why do I give a f__k knida way. I'm not jthe jealous of the woodelf kinda guy.
Evertime I got a new piece of gear, say a robe. It was the same robe just a different color. This was for all my equipment besides the staff ( I was a druid, after 14 levels I expect some variety).
Humm. you say the color is different on your new robes. I would expect all robes to have a somewhat different hem line at least...lol or maybe slightly longer sleeves... oh i got it.. add little distinct wrinkles...yea thats it. Enemy NPC camping corpes. Theres that damn old challange crap again.
Diplomacy quest bugged. I was to the point that i had two quest. One was to difficult to do yet and the quest that would advance me so I may have the skill to start the other quest. Well the quest I needed to advance was the horse quest. I failed due to the timer and no directions in the quest. Now I cannot retry the quest so I can continue. (So that is two spheres I can't advance in) You failed the quest... Hummm should be automatic winners I think. Failure should never be a option...lol
0 solo-ability. Yea the game is group-centric but damn, if you can't find a group to do your quest, your screwed. I spent 3 days at the same level grinding of wandering NPC trying to find a group. Also if you don't get to do your quest you don't get good gear.
Being a druid I had cloudwalk. It's pretty lame when melee ranged NPC can hit me with their weapon when I am 30 meters away from them in the air. 0 Solo ability but seems no one groups... Please explain how that can be? If if not solo friendly you would think everyone must be LFG.
Enemies teleporting directy infront of me after my first attack ala SWG. The only difference is in SWG they didn't attack, it was visual. In vanguard they actually glitch infront of you. (yes monks have the ability to telport to a foe and attack. They wheren't monks)
Never seen that. Not being able to loot corpse underwater. Worked for me just fine..almost ran out of breath but made it. Love the excitement.
Crafting area is way to congested in Tanvu, Kojan. Just a 5FPS lagfest and I run the game on high settings and it's fine everywhere else. They should have made multiple building containing the crafting tables like the lesser giant starter city.
Next.
Game sucks so bad no one is playing but yet we need more room already?
Sigil was running out of money, so they had to release. I can understand that. What I can't accept is the way they've completely cut off any feedback from their customers.
WHAT are you talking about. This is COMPLETELY untrue... just wow...
Have you tried to talk with them? I chat wit them all the time on the Affiliate Sites, as well as even here. Heck, you can even Petition & Bug things in-game and have a DEV (not a GM, although they're great) contact you to ask you for more info.
This is THE most responsive Dev Team and MMO company I have EVER seen...
Where are the VG forums? I mean, even small games have official ones, what is sigil afraid of?
Exactly! The fact that they don't provide official forums shows that they don't want feedback from their customers. I'd be willing to bet that any future games that are connected to SOE won't have forums.
That is a stupid thing to say.
Every single game run by SOE EXCEPT Vanguard has it's own forum board. That was a SIGIL decision, not SOE
Which is why I said *future* games connected to SOE. Their current forums take a huge amount of spin-control because they have pissed on their customers.
Actually its not really, I might be mistaken but I would expect the game engine to cost around $400,000 in licensing costs alone, and you have at least double or triple that per year in salaries.
Edit: yep was right on the money, just checked and it is $350,000 + $50,000 per platform, which in their case I would assume would be two platforms, so $450K-ish.
Sad to hear you feel ripped off. However, many many people feel different, and are actually enjoying the game. Maybe the game just wasn't for you, which is fair enough. I can tell you're quite upset and may be exaggerating things. Personally I find the game to be making signifigant improvements, as well as being generally well made. Obviously the game has work to do, but I would argue that it's not as bad as you claim. Feel free to move on to another game where you'll have fun. If you're just going to be angry about the game, there's no sense in having you play it. We will continue to enjoy our game and thank you for trying it. Have fun!
I will second this.. Its a shame the OP feels like he does but unfortunately thats the way it goes in MMO's. I for one am enjoying the game and look forward to many years of play time
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there, 80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters. Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior, and he will bring the others home. -Heraclitus 500BC
The thing that gets to most people I think is the exclusion that is synonymous to this game.
It's basically saying to people who haven't spent 1000+ euros or dollars for a games' rig, to p*ss off.
That is a very bad start for building a staple basis for a community.
And without a community, a MMO has nothing to offer.
So to all people refusing to acknowledge the fact that people are leaving because they are fustrated with perfomance issues, and respond with things like 'bye lol' or 'go back to wow, noob', etc, etc: be careful what you ask for.
If everyone leaves (or doesn't join) who are you going to play with in your massive world?
Peace.
PS. I am one of those who cancelled the last moment. Fyi I had 30-40 fps when I was soloing, and that was okay I guess, but the thing that draw the line for me was the thought that If I have 30-40 fps when I solo, how would I fare when the time would come for me to raid?
And this is where i stopped and i'll tell you why...... becuase people really need to stop having this type of attitude, it makes game companies think they can get away with not decently "completing" it. Sure no mmorpg is never finished, but there has to be a certian line that one must stand and say... hey.... this really is ripping people off.... hmmm.... game developers seem to be getting more and more comfortable with releasing incomplete (seemingly more and more with each game released). I would have to say though that FFXI had a pretty solid launch... in japan and in the states... (i played the jap version too.)
Anyway, carry on.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Sad to hear you feel ripped off. However, many many people feel different, and are actually enjoying the game. Maybe the game just wasn't for you, which is fair enough. I can tell you're quite upset and may be exaggerating things. Personally I find the game to be making signifigant improvements, as well as being generally well made. Obviously the game has work to do, but I would argue that it's not as bad as you claim. Feel free to move on to another game where you'll have fun. If you're just going to be angry about the game, there's no sense in having you play it. We will continue to enjoy our game and thank you for trying it. Have fun!
Sad to hear you feel ripped off. However, many many people feel different, and are actually enjoying the game. Maybe the game just wasn't for you, which is fair enough. I can tell you're quite upset and may be exaggerating things. Personally I find the game to be making signifigant improvements, as well as being generally well made. Obviously the game has work to do, but I would argue that it's not as bad as you claim. Feel free to move on to another game where you'll have fun. If you're just going to be angry about the game, there's no sense in having you play it. We will continue to enjoy our game and thank you for trying it. Have fun!
Very well put Blurr.....
I'll Summerize to STFU +GTFO
So um yeah to revisit a post I was in back then... I had to see how it faired now after seeing and hearing about Sigil and it's ... well.... company.
I hate saying this but you do know you can ask to see or what are the sales numbers on some games at a game stops or even Best Buy people can look up what is selling.
I just want to say that from um..... my findings... this is not even on the map.
______________________________ I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process..... SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played Vanguard for just short of a month I have come to the conclusion it isnt a great game but it isnt a bad game, its more or less average So i pretty much canceled the other day. But what makes it a bad game in that respect is the amount of game breaking bugs, lack of content, and other miscellaneous features that were left out but were susposed to be in. yeah i will agree that MMO's tend to be buggy even after they launch but there is a fine line between "slight bugs, and launch hitches" and down right unfinished game that Vanguard was in. Like i said i wouldnt say vanguard isnt a bad game, it has potential i can see it in there.
i think that "good game" is several months off then perhaps they will be worth me spending $15. I understand and I wont judge people who like the game, in fact I am happy for you There is no reason you shouldn't feel like you cant put your money into something you think is worth it. For me i am perhaps a bit pickier I believe developers need to address this overbearing issue of bringing a game to such an unfinished state. I wont invest in it< my intelligence and common sense wont allow me to. thats just me, thats How i think, I do not tolerate certain things from companies and I dont think other people should as well, but I wont stop them from spending their money if their mind is made up.
I think by spending that money on developers who bring such a game to market in such unfinished state is showing to the industry if they can get away with it, hell maybe we can too, consumers will be mad yeah, but they will understand and warm up to it sooner or later.Dont get me wrong, I wont be afraid to plunk $50 down for a game to give it a try $50 for a month worth of playing? sounds like a good deal to me, but if nearing the end of the month i have seen past the smoke and mirrors and realize truly for what the game is, and what the developers havent done, completed or otherwise added in as they should of, I take my wallet elsewhere. I do think in this industry there is always going to be roller coaster of emotions when things dont go the way we planned, developers do after all have to make some money to earn back from the investment they put in, I understand the business side,and to some degree I can empathize with them. but occasionally there is a point where that empathy turns into down right frustration and annoyance where that is no longer an excuse after 5 years of development.
It is not my problem, nor my responsibility. If i pay to play a game I expect it to be finished or at least stable, But it turns out unfinished when i pay for it when it should in fact be ready for launch or at least ina stable enough state and within enough content that the developers can focus on the necessary items that need to be addressed and fixed. But hey thats merely me. As far as I am concerned there are plenty of other companies gunning for my attention and willing to do what is necessary to convince me that they are worth my money. SOE, SIGIL, and BLIZZARD arent the only movers and shakers in town, there are plenty of others out there willing to take the ncessary steps to make my day filled with fun. FUNCOM, NC SOFT, WEBZEN, PERPETUAL all them are doing what it takes to bring me a new taste and feel of this genre, although it is too soon as of yet to bbe sure if they are true to their words with the new MMO's slated for late 2007 up to 2009 but hey time will tell, as it always does.
the mistakes that have transpired with SIGIL, and SOE now coming to bite them on the ass. They had their chance to make a difference, bring something new tot he table, and they messed it up.And it is no ones fault by their own. They made their bed now they gotta lie in it. Time to move on to greener pasture for that new MMO fix lol My point of interest thus far is AOC, TR, and HUXLEY. they are at least worth my attention, only time will tell if they are worth my money.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played LOTR since Beta2 and it is extremely stable. that much i can say, although as time progresses Im not all that much interested in LOTR to some degree, not my cup of tea, but the main thing to point out it is well polished, and is very stable. so i agree you on that.
I play vanguard until the 7th but i am pretty much not going back cause it so hard to get groups, not overly but as time progressed in this month i noticed a decline in my abiulity to get groups, and its not that hard to get groups you merely have to ask nicely and be specifc in your needs. It is apparent that the overall population is dwindling over time.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played LOTR since Beta2 and it is extremely stable. that much i can say, although as time progresses Im not all that much interested in LOTR to some degree, not my cup of tea, but the main thing to point out it is well polished, and is very stable. so i agree you on that.Uh, well, LotRO may have been stable in closed beta, but I've got three corrupted toons already in the Open Beta. I'm not sure it's quite ready for prime time yet.
-- Xix "I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played LOTR since Beta2 and it is extremely stable. that much i can say, although as time progresses Im not all that much interested in LOTR to some degree, not my cup of tea, but the main thing to point out it is well polished, and is very stable. so i agree you on that.Uh, well, LotRO may have been stable in closed beta, but I've got three corrupted toons already in the Open Beta. I'm not sure it's quite ready for prime time yet.
which is probably why it is in beta for another month.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Moral of the Story..... Never buy into the hype of a new game. Wait a while until there's at least a free trial. At least then you would'nt have wasted $40.00 or whatever. MMORPG companies live off hype and expectations.
Great point, most games allow you to try before you buy, take advantage of it. I have tried many games including WOW using the free trial method and found the games did not fit my style. No money wasted and no one gets ripped off.
The only game I bought before trying was City of Villans and only after reading many reviews and a few months after it was released.
I couldn't feel more ripped off than I do now. Not only did I pay up for a subscription to get into beta early but I also ended up buying this half-assed game. Hype and my stupidity has beaten me this time.
I feel the same way you do and not only that, but I was one of the foolish people who paid another $300 to upgrade my video card for this pile of crap AND STILL COULD ONLY PLAY on Balanced mode without painful lag.
QFT. It's a new day and MMOs are big budget now. It's kinda like when Star Wars came out and you wanted to make a cheap sci-fi movie like what was done in the 50s.... nada, doesn't work anymore. One MUST finish the game before release. There is no way around that anymore.
You're right only if you continue to make the same thing. But if you break the mold,
you don't have to out perform or even be on par with what is out there. Look at
the Wii and and the Nintendo DS. Neither cost as much as the competition. If Vanguard
were revolutionary, it wouldn't be such an issue. But it is just taking MMORPGs to
the next level.
I was in the beta and enjoyed the game. But I didn't think it was ready to launch
when it did. Something obviously forced it to go out the door when it did. In a year
I'll give it a whirl. But until then, I thank all of those who couldn't wait and financed
Vanguard was developed by a small company and only had 40 ish million to use. They got what they could out of it.
do you people ever reread what you write??? 40 million freakin dollars AND THE GAME ISNT DONE!? that is simply ridiculous but even moreso is those of you who find that acceptable. so these clowns wasted 40 million bucks and now you guys are gonna pay them for it huh. good grief.
that's a really big prob in this country right now, seems everyone is able to accept mediocrity as ok. gg.
Originally posted by Markn12 Vanguard was developed by a small company and only had 40 ish million to use. They got what they could out of it.
do you people ever reread what you write??? 40 million freakin dollars AND THE GAME ISNT DONE!? that is simply ridiculous but even moreso is those of you who find that acceptable. so these clowns wasted 40 million bucks and now you guys are gonna pay them for it huh. good grief.
that's a really big prob in this country right now, seems everyone is able to accept mediocrity as ok. gg.
Actually its 30 million and WoW cost about 70 million to make. WoW even with the xpac is about half the size of VG and this is even with a large amount of land taken out before the game was released to beta. If Sigil did this with 30 million, imagine what they could have done with 70.
For the haters: Yeah I know, if they had another 40 million, McQuaid would have just taken it and then thrown it into his own personal pocket or the fireplace while he laughed at us.
Vanguard was developed by a small company and only had 40 ish million to use. They got what they could out of it.
do you people ever reread what you write??? 40 million freakin dollars AND THE GAME ISNT DONE!? that is simply ridiculous but even moreso is those of you who find that acceptable. so these clowns wasted 40 million bucks and now you guys are gonna pay them for it huh. good grief.
that's a really big prob in this country right now, seems everyone is able to accept mediocrity as ok. gg.
I didnt spend 40 million , and they get 15 $ a month from me . Who cares what they spent ? Dude it wasnt my money or yours, to me you are just trolling trying to find something new to troll about . and there are way bigger probs with this country
Vanguard was developed by a small company and only had 40 ish million to use. They got what they could out of it.
do you people ever reread what you write??? 40 million freakin dollars AND THE GAME ISNT DONE!? that is simply ridiculous but even moreso is those of you who find that acceptable. so these clowns wasted 40 million bucks and now you guys are gonna pay them for it huh. good grief.
that's a really big prob in this country right now, seems everyone is able to accept mediocrity as ok. gg.
Actually its 30 million and WoW cost about 70 million to make. WoW even with the xpac is about half the size of VG and this is even with a large amount of land taken out before the game was released to beta. If Sigil did this with 30 million, imagine what they could have done with 70.
For the haters: Yeah I know, if they had another 40 million, McQuaid would have just taken it and then thrown it into his own personal pocket or the fireplace while he laughed at us.
I would kill for a link to your numbers. I haven't seen, *anywhere* that WoW cost 70M to create. If EQ2, which was the front runner at launch time cost that much to make, they would have lost out on the bulk of their investment. Yet, EQ2 is considered a success? I challenge your statement here, and overall I believe you are mistaken.
Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Actually the number was pulled directly from the same developer who the OP quoted. However, I shall not leave you disappointed!!! Here is a link to a site that gives the actual value of 62.8 million (sorry the number I quoted was a bit off)
cough-you know what? Vanguard is better then WoW. Better graphics better gameplay. And is a sony game which means station access pass which equals all their other games. Got to understand people, stop hitting on other games, you felt ripped cuase guys dont know how to enjoy it, and just play for a few and cry bout being ripped. Stop complaining and get some life.
So..... Vanguard is better than WoW because you said so... Forget the fact that eight million people disagree with you.
Vanguard is a decent game at best. Ignoring all the bugs and performance issues, it would still only be a mediocre game. Factoring the bugs and performance issues in, it is a flaming pile of crap. In a year or so, when Brad thinks the game will be in a playable state, it will be competing against 4 or 5 other new AAA titles. We'll see how many people feel like it's worth 15 bucks a month at that point. In a month it won't be the newest game out any more, and it has never by any stretch of the imagination been the best game out. IMO, it is a lot closer to being the worst. There are crappier games, but I doubt any of those games took any where close to the same amount of money and time to produce. I will be very surprised in they have 150k legitimate* subscribers a year from now... but then, I have been surprised before
I don't really think enjoying a video game should be such an intricate process that a lot of people wouldn't know how to do it. You either enjoy it or you don't.
* SOE fudges the subscriber numbers with station pass players. There isn't really any way for us to know how many of their subscribers are station pass accounts, or how many of the station pass accounts are primarily for the purpose of playing Vanguard.
I think the general rule is to wait 6 months after launch for a MMORPG. They are ussully released to early, and take 6 months to fix what should have been fixed before launch. If I play VSoH it will be after the 6 month mark, but also wil depend on what I read about the quality of the game at that point.
I think the general rule is to wait 6 months after launch for a MMORPG. They are ussully released to early, and take 6 months to fix what should have been fixed before launch. If I play VSoH it will be after the 6 month mark, but also wil depend on what I read about the quality of the game at that point.
They had five years and over thirty million dollars to make the game. Honestly, what difference is six months going to make for this crappy game?
Comments
Couldn't recieve tells from people outside my guild over 50% of the time.
Never happened to me and never heard anyone complain of that before.
Getting kicked from groups while crossing chunks.
Again...Never happened to me or any group I have been a part of.
Crossing a chunk just to have the server teleport me 1 km away to a lvl 32 mob zone.
Nope...havent been teleported....
Having to relog to accept an invite.
Invite works fine for me.
Not showing up in the LFG window.
Happened to me one time.
(all the issues above would not let me advance in adventuring past what I soloed to which was 14 due to the fact that i could rarily communicate with people and, even if I did find a group getting in and staying in was impossible)
Kojans loot drop is much lower than the other two continients.
Really. Thats interesting almost in a why do I give a f__k knida way. I'm not jthe jealous of the woodelf kinda guy.
Evertime I got a new piece of gear, say a robe. It was the same robe just a different color. This was for all my equipment besides the staff ( I was a druid, after 14 levels I expect some variety).
Humm. you say the color is different on your new robes. I would expect all robes to have a somewhat different hem line at least...lol or maybe slightly longer sleeves... oh i got it.. add little distinct wrinkles...yea thats it.
Enemy NPC camping corpes.
Theres that damn old challange crap again.
Diplomacy quest bugged. I was to the point that i had two quest. One was to difficult to do yet and the quest that would advance me so I may have the skill to start the other quest. Well the quest I needed to advance was the horse quest. I failed due to the timer and no directions in the quest. Now I cannot retry the quest so I can continue. (So that is two spheres I can't advance in)
You failed the quest... Hummm should be automatic winners I think. Failure should never be a option...lol
0 solo-ability. Yea the game is group-centric but damn, if you can't find a group to do your quest, your screwed. I spent 3 days at the same level grinding of wandering NPC trying to find a group. Also if you don't get to do your quest you don't get good gear.
Being a druid I had cloudwalk. It's pretty lame when melee ranged NPC can hit me with their weapon when I am 30 meters away from them in the air.
0 Solo ability but seems no one groups... Please explain how that can be? If if not solo friendly you would think everyone must be LFG.
Enemies teleporting directy infront of me after my first attack ala SWG. The only difference is in SWG they didn't attack, it was visual. In vanguard they actually glitch infront of you. (yes monks have the ability to telport to a foe and attack. They wheren't monks)
Never seen that.
Not being able to loot corpse underwater.
Worked for me just fine..almost ran out of breath but made it. Love the excitement.
Crafting area is way to congested in Tanvu, Kojan. Just a 5FPS lagfest and I run the game on high settings and it's fine everywhere else. They should have made multiple building containing the crafting tables like the lesser giant starter city.
Next.
Game sucks so bad no one is playing but yet we need more room already?
WHAT are you talking about. This is COMPLETELY untrue... just wow...
Have you tried to talk with them? I chat wit them all the time on the Affiliate Sites, as well as even here. Heck, you can even Petition & Bug things in-game and have a DEV (not a GM, although they're great) contact you to ask you for more info.
This is THE most responsive Dev Team and MMO company I have EVER seen...
Where are the VG forums? I mean, even small games have official ones, what is sigil afraid of?Exactly! The fact that they don't provide official forums shows that they don't want feedback from their customers. I'd be willing to bet that any future games that are connected to SOE won't have forums.
That is a stupid thing to say.
Every single game run by SOE EXCEPT Vanguard has it's own forum board. That was a SIGIL decision, not SOE
Which is why I said *future* games connected to SOE. Their current forums take a huge amount of spin-control because they have pissed on their customers."Vanguard was developed by a small company and only had 40 ish million to use. They got what they could out of it. "
That's where you lost me. They ONLY had 40 ish million to use? 40 million is a lot of money....
Most MMOs would kill for that much money......
Edit: yep was right on the money, just checked and it is $350,000 + $50,000 per platform, which in their case I would assume would be two platforms, so $450K-ish.
Out of every 100 men, 10 should not be there,
80 are nothing but targets, 9 are the real fighters.
Ah, but one, ONE of them is a warrior,
and he will bring the others home.
-Heraclitus 500BC
It's basically saying to people who haven't spent 1000+ euros or dollars for a games' rig, to p*ss off.
That is a very bad start for building a staple basis for a community.
And without a community, a MMO has nothing to offer.
So to all people refusing to acknowledge the fact that people are leaving because they are fustrated with perfomance issues, and respond with things like 'bye lol' or 'go back to wow, noob', etc, etc: be careful what you ask for.
If everyone leaves (or doesn't join) who are you going to play with in your massive world?
Peace.
PS. I am one of those who cancelled the last moment. Fyi I had 30-40 fps when I was soloing, and that was okay I guess, but the thing that draw the line for me was the thought that If I have 30-40 fps when I solo, how would I fare when the time would come for me to raid?
And this is where i stopped and i'll tell you why...... becuase people really need to stop having this type of attitude, it makes game companies think they can get away with not decently "completing" it. Sure no mmorpg is never finished, but there has to be a certian line that one must stand and say... hey.... this really is ripping people off.... hmmm.... game developers seem to be getting more and more comfortable with releasing incomplete (seemingly more and more with each game released). I would have to say though that FFXI had a pretty solid launch... in japan and in the states... (i played the jap version too.)
Anyway, carry on.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
I'll Summerize to STFU +GTFO
I'll Summerize to STFU +GTFO
So um yeah to revisit a post I was in back then... I had to see how it faired now after seeing and hearing about Sigil and it's ... well.... company.
I hate saying this but you do know you can ask to see or what are the sales numbers on some games at a game stops or even Best Buy people can look up what is selling.
I just want to say that from um..... my findings... this is not even on the map.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played Vanguard for just short of a month I have come to the conclusion it isnt a great game but it isnt a bad game, its more or less average So i pretty much canceled the other day. But what makes it a bad game in that respect is the amount of game breaking bugs, lack of content, and other miscellaneous features that were left out but were susposed to be in. yeah i will agree that MMO's tend to be buggy even after they launch but there is a fine line between "slight bugs, and launch hitches" and down right unfinished game that Vanguard was in. Like i said i wouldnt say vanguard isnt a bad game, it has potential i can see it in there.
i think that "good game" is several months off then perhaps they will be worth me spending $15. I understand and I wont judge people who like the game, in fact I am happy for you There is no reason you shouldn't feel like you cant put your money into something you think is worth it. For me i am perhaps a bit pickier I believe developers need to address this overbearing issue of bringing a game to such an unfinished state. I wont invest in it< my intelligence and common sense wont allow me to. thats just me, thats How i think, I do not tolerate certain things from companies and I dont think other people should as well, but I wont stop them from spending their money if their mind is made up.
I think by spending that money on developers who bring such a game to market in such unfinished state is showing to the industry if they can get away with it, hell maybe we can too, consumers will be mad yeah, but they will understand and warm up to it sooner or later.Dont get me wrong, I wont be afraid to plunk $50 down for a game to give it a try $50 for a month worth of playing? sounds like a good deal to me, but if nearing the end of the month i have seen past the smoke and mirrors and realize truly for what the game is, and what the developers havent done, completed or otherwise added in as they should of, I take my wallet elsewhere. I do think in this industry there is always going to be roller coaster of emotions when things dont go the way we planned, developers do after all have to make some money to earn back from the investment they put in, I understand the business side,and to some degree I can empathize with them. but occasionally there is a point where that empathy turns into down right frustration and annoyance where that is no longer an excuse after 5 years of development.
It is not my problem, nor my responsibility. If i pay to play a game I expect it to be finished or at least stable, But it turns out unfinished when i pay for it when it should in fact be ready for launch or at least ina stable enough state and within enough content that the developers can focus on the necessary items that need to be addressed and fixed. But hey thats merely me. As far as I am concerned there are plenty of other companies gunning for my attention and willing to do what is necessary to convince me that they are worth my money. SOE, SIGIL, and BLIZZARD arent the only movers and shakers in town, there are plenty of others out there willing to take the ncessary steps to make my day filled with fun. FUNCOM, NC SOFT, WEBZEN, PERPETUAL all them are doing what it takes to bring me a new taste and feel of this genre, although it is too soon as of yet to bbe sure if they are true to their words with the new MMO's slated for late 2007 up to 2009 but hey time will tell, as it always does.
the mistakes that have transpired with SIGIL, and SOE now coming to bite them on the ass. They had their chance to make a difference, bring something new tot he table, and they messed it up.And it is no ones fault by their own. They made their bed now they gotta lie in it. Time to move on to greener pasture for that new MMO fix lol My point of interest thus far is AOC, TR, and HUXLEY. they are at least worth my attention, only time will tell if they are worth my money.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played LOTR since Beta2 and it is extremely stable. that much i can say, although as time progresses Im not all that much interested in LOTR to some degree, not my cup of tea, but the main thing to point out it is well polished, and is very stable. so i agree you on that.
I play vanguard until the 7th but i am pretty much not going back cause it so hard to get groups, not overly but as time progressed in this month i noticed a decline in my abiulity to get groups, and its not that hard to get groups you merely have to ask nicely and be specifc in your needs. It is apparent that the overall population is dwindling over time.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played LOTR since Beta2 and it is extremely stable. that much i can say, although as time progresses Im not all that much interested in LOTR to some degree, not my cup of tea, but the main thing to point out it is well polished, and is very stable. so i agree you on that.Uh, well, LotRO may have been stable in closed beta, but I've got three corrupted toons already in the Open Beta. I'm not sure it's quite ready for prime time yet.
-- Xix
"I know what you're thinking: 'Why, oh WHY, didn't I take the BLUE pill?'"
Um, just plain wrong there Mark. While there definitely weren't enough servers at launch, the code behind WoW was in great shape at launch. DaoC was pretty good, performance wise, the day it came out too. Lineage II, in all is grind fest glory, was at least ready for release when it launched.
As for future games, LOTR is in beta for another month and is already in much better shape than Vanguard (Don't trust me go sign up and try it for yourself). It will be ready for release in a month. And both WAR and AoC have had their release dates pushed back to the end of the year because both companies know that it is suicide for a MMO to release in a beta state these days.
Stop trying to come up with excuses for Vanguard. The team behind this game was the B team from EQ, the A team went on to found Mythic and will release the heir to the thrown in November. And it will be playable at launch.
I played LOTR since Beta2 and it is extremely stable. that much i can say, although as time progresses Im not all that much interested in LOTR to some degree, not my cup of tea, but the main thing to point out it is well polished, and is very stable. so i agree you on that.Uh, well, LotRO may have been stable in closed beta, but I've got three corrupted toons already in the Open Beta. I'm not sure it's quite ready for prime time yet.
which is probably why it is in beta for another month.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Great point, most games allow you to try before you buy, take advantage of it. I have tried many games including WOW using the free trial method and found the games did not fit my style. No money wasted and no one gets ripped off.
The only game I bought before trying was City of Villans and only after reading many reviews and a few months after it was released.
You're right only if you continue to make the same thing. But if you break the mold,
you don't have to out perform or even be on par with what is out there. Look at
the Wii and and the Nintendo DS. Neither cost as much as the competition. If Vanguard
were revolutionary, it wouldn't be such an issue. But it is just taking MMORPGs to
the next level.
I was in the beta and enjoyed the game. But I didn't think it was ready to launch
when it did. Something obviously forced it to go out the door when it did. In a year
I'll give it a whirl. But until then, I thank all of those who couldn't wait and financed
the bug fixes I'll get to enjoy.
do you people ever reread what you write??? 40 million freakin dollars AND THE GAME ISNT DONE!? that is simply ridiculous but even moreso is those of you who find that acceptable. so these clowns wasted 40 million bucks and now you guys are gonna pay them for it huh. good grief.
that's a really big prob in this country right now, seems everyone is able to accept mediocrity as ok. gg.
Actually its 30 million and WoW cost about 70 million to make. WoW even with the xpac is about half the size of VG and this is even with a large amount of land taken out before the game was released to beta. If Sigil did this with 30 million, imagine what they could have done with 70.
For the haters: Yeah I know, if they had another 40 million, McQuaid would have just taken it and then thrown it into his own personal pocket or the fireplace while he laughed at us.
do you people ever reread what you write??? 40 million freakin dollars AND THE GAME ISNT DONE!? that is simply ridiculous but even moreso is those of you who find that acceptable. so these clowns wasted 40 million bucks and now you guys are gonna pay them for it huh. good grief.
that's a really big prob in this country right now, seems everyone is able to accept mediocrity as ok. gg.
I didnt spend 40 million , and they get 15 $ a month from me . Who cares what they spent ? Dude it wasnt my money or yours, to me you are just trolling trying to find something new to troll about . and there are way bigger probs with this country
do you people ever reread what you write??? 40 million freakin dollars AND THE GAME ISNT DONE!? that is simply ridiculous but even moreso is those of you who find that acceptable. so these clowns wasted 40 million bucks and now you guys are gonna pay them for it huh. good grief.
that's a really big prob in this country right now, seems everyone is able to accept mediocrity as ok. gg.
Actually its 30 million and WoW cost about 70 million to make. WoW even with the xpac is about half the size of VG and this is even with a large amount of land taken out before the game was released to beta. If Sigil did this with 30 million, imagine what they could have done with 70.
For the haters: Yeah I know, if they had another 40 million, McQuaid would have just taken it and then thrown it into his own personal pocket or the fireplace while he laughed at us.
I would kill for a link to your numbers. I haven't seen, *anywhere* that WoW cost 70M to create. If EQ2, which was the front runner at launch time cost that much to make, they would have lost out on the bulk of their investment. Yet, EQ2 is considered a success? I challenge your statement here, and overall I believe you are mistaken.Played (more than a month): SWG, Second Life, Tabula Rasa, Lineage 2, Everquest 2, EvE, MxO, Ryzom.
Tried: WoW, Shadowbane, Anarchy Online, Everquest, WWII Online, Planetside
Beta: Lotro, Tabula Rasa, WAR.
Actually the number was pulled directly from the same developer who the OP quoted. However, I shall not leave you disappointed!!! Here is a link to a site that gives the actual value of 62.8 million (sorry the number I quoted was a bit off)
http://www.raphkoster.com/2006/06/13/what-wow-cost/
edit: Also as I was reading through that, not only is production cost mentioned a few times, but also that it took 5 years to make.
So..... Vanguard is better than WoW because you said so... Forget the fact that eight million people disagree with you.
Vanguard is a decent game at best. Ignoring all the bugs and performance issues, it would still only be a mediocre game. Factoring the bugs and performance issues in, it is a flaming pile of crap. In a year or so, when Brad thinks the game will be in a playable state, it will be competing against 4 or 5 other new AAA titles. We'll see how many people feel like it's worth 15 bucks a month at that point. In a month it won't be the newest game out any more, and it has never by any stretch of the imagination been the best game out. IMO, it is a lot closer to being the worst. There are crappier games, but I doubt any of those games took any where close to the same amount of money and time to produce. I will be very surprised in they have 150k legitimate* subscribers a year from now... but then, I have been surprised before
I don't really think enjoying a video game should be such an intricate process that a lot of people wouldn't know how to do it. You either enjoy it or you don't.
* SOE fudges the subscriber numbers with station pass players. There isn't really any way for us to know how many of their subscribers are station pass accounts, or how many of the station pass accounts are primarily for the purpose of playing Vanguard.
-----Zero Punctuation Eve Online Review-----