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Interesting quotes from Sigil co-founder and executive producer Brad McQuaid

245

Comments

  • flynnkdflynnkd Member UncommonPosts: 25

    No large software project in history has EVER been finsihed at the time of its launch. Anyone who works in the industry knows this. At some point in any project you make a decision that enough has been done/is working, and you launch it. Knowing full well that you will be bug fixing for some time to come. The cost of finishing the last 5% is almost equal to the first 95%, and it just doesnt make business sense to do it. If you want a MMO that is 100% complete at launch then you will be istting on your behind for another 3-4 years waiting.

    The only arguement here is whether VG is complete ENOUGH to launch or whether it wasnt. That was their call, if you dont like it then dont pay for it.

    WOW was not complete, they had major server crashes at launch due to load. WOW is still not complete, 100%, because it is mostly impossible to do economically.

    At least Brad came out and said what we all know, MONEY is the issue, the people with the money put on the pressure, take up your complaints with them.

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by Adrisa


    So, this is what a company get for being honest? At least there not liars like some games I know. 
     So far they have been upfront in everything . I cant believe after all Brad has said and if any of you just open your ears. All the complaints so far is simply people who refuse to read and look into the game. 
    Thats why people dont listen to your whine cause we all like to sit back eat popcorn and enjoy the entertainment of people who refuse to listen to what is said. I love the reading into it also. Hey ever heard of trying to have a positive out look.
    You people should thank god the games arent closing themselves off so no one can copy anything. Is that what you want ??  Patents, copyrights, and trademarks ? so what if every game is like eq or like WOW its all about moving forward making games better enjoying them.  Look how far everything has come since eq days its great enjoy and stop eating all the damn cheese and drinking so much wine.


    It's the way they attempt to be honest, Adrisa. If you say MMOs are never finished, then you imply all are worthy of shipping whenever developers deem them 'good'. Any disgruntled customers arguments over missing content can simply be rebuked with a "silly you, MMOs are never finished. It's beautiful that the piece of content you read about in FAQs and other marketed hype leading up to the game isn't there".



    Additionally, Brad has said plenty that panned out to not be 'true'. At most, you can be lenient and say some ideas have to change if better ones come along. Like item durability being added late in beta when Brad having always plainly spoke against item durability and repair, and said it wouldn't be in-game; but went on to say Silius or someone talked him into it.



    Again, when you surround your words with loopholes out of them incase they turn out to not be entirely true, or completely change the definition of what you're phrasing and impose it upon others to think the same; of course you're always honest.



    There's a such thing as having a positive outlook, but it's unhealthy to have it without a dose of skepticism too, don't you think?



    What if every game is like EQ or like WoW...what? You sure you're playing Vanguard? It IS just like those games, moreso than games that have branched outside of the mold like the original SWG, City of Heroes, Eve Online, and forthcoming Age of Conan. Vanguard is the wrong game to poise as something that's come 'far' since EQ days; everyone has their own perspective of it, but I'd place Vanguard 'effectively' somewhere between 1st and 2nd-gen MMOs in terms of implementation of ideas. Certainly the graphics could be considered above 2nd-gen though.
  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc



    You know I could try to do the nice thing and try to have a rational conversation w/ you, but you are apparently just anti-sigil/soe.  So I'll skip to the part where we just agree to disagree.

    So becuase I have identified flaws in all your debated points, the arguement becomes irrational? Interesting.



    No you haven't actually shown a single flaw.  You have just shown that you ddin't play WoW at release or in the last 2 years for that matter.  You have shown however that you are a wow fanboi and they can do no wrong but Sigil/SOE are the devil and not to be trusted.  So once again, lets just agree that you won't listen to anything or accept any proof because as you said in the other thread, "You can't trust your own eyes with Photoshop and Truth in Marketing".

     

    Maybe one day you'll grow up and start to play big boy games like the rest of us.  =)

    Read my reply to your "WoW bugs" post.



    I played WoW from US Beta phase 3, US retail on the Archimonde server for a year, and I played Bloodhoof EU server for a year... I recently quit.



    Call me a fanboi all you like, It doesnt really bother me. I give credit where it is due and I argue invalid points where necessary.



    Btw it wasRPGBeech  who said: "Of course, in these days of Photoshop and truth in marketing, you most certainly can believe everything you see.

    Right ...."

    Not me.

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    image

  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc



    You know I could try to do the nice thing and try to have a rational conversation w/ you, but you are apparently just anti-sigil/soe.  So I'll skip to the part where we just agree to disagree.

    So becuase I have identified flaws in all your debated points, the arguement becomes irrational? Interesting.



    No you haven't actually shown a single flaw.  You have just shown that you ddin't play WoW at release or in the last 2 years for that matter.  You have shown however that you are a wow fanboi and they can do no wrong but Sigil/SOE are the devil and not to be trusted.  So once again, lets just agree that you won't listen to anything or accept any proof because as you said in the other thread, "You can't trust your own eyes with Photoshop and Truth in Marketing".

     

    Maybe one day you'll grow up and start to play big boy games like the rest of us.  =)

    Read my reply to your "WoW bugs" post.



    I played WoW from US Beta phase 3, US retail on the Archimonde server for a year, and I played Bloodhoof EU server for a year... I recently quit.



    Call me a fanboi all you like, It doesnt really bother me. I give credit where it is due and I argue invalid points where necessary.



    Btw it wasRPGBeech  who said: "Of course, in these days of Photoshop and truth in marketing, you most certainly can believe everything you see.

    Right ...."

    Not me.



    Right and I edited that part before you actually posted this reply.

     

    No you didn't show any valid points.  You simply said you never saw them.  Plain and Simple.  So if you didn't see them they don't exist?  Well half of the problems you seem to have talked about in VG I haven't actually seen. So that must mean they don't exist right?

    As far as to what was actually happening w/ the mage spells since you just want to argue for whatever reason, is that in AM you would channel the spell but wouldn't actually cast anything and it would still consume your mana.  With Blink if there was the tiniest glitch  in the terrain you would be stopped by it even if you were only one foot from it when you blinked.  Then there was always the great possiblity of blinking backwards right into what was chasing you to begin with.  The nefarion bug was introduced by the devs.  While it wasn't intentionaly, they put it there, not the players.

    Server stability is still a huge issue on older servers.  Stormrage is almost empty now because of the horrible server stability (They have since upgraded that server but the damage was already done). 

    Over the course of the first month of release, you couldn't even connect to the game half the time and when you did, you had about a 70% chance of getting booted out and have to sit in another Queue for an hour.  Mobs were under the ground and warping all over the place, events weren't working, spells weren't fully working and talents were broke.  Half of what Blizzard did to fix this was just to remove them from the game and re-introdue them later and label them as 'new content'.

    It's funny how you played at release but you didn't seem to notice any of this but yet it's glaring in another game.

     

    And why are my posts being deleted?  Oh nvm, checked my mail.  Seems calling people who subscribe to Vg idiots is fine but calling someone a fanboi isn't.  *boggle*

  • Deathstrike2Deathstrike2 Member UncommonPosts: 1,777
    Originally posted by flynnkd


    No large software project in history has EVER been finsihed at the time of its launch. Anyone who works in the industry knows this. At some point in any project you make a decision that enough has been done/is working, and you launch it. Knowing full well that you will be bug fixing for some time to come. The cost of finishing the last 5% is almost equal to the first 95%, and it just doesnt make business sense to do it. If you want a MMO that is 100% complete at launch then you will be istting on your behind for another 3-4 years waiting.
    The only arguement here is whether VG is complete ENOUGH to launch or whether it wasnt. That was their call, if you dont like it then dont pay for it.
    WOW was not complete, they had major server crashes at launch due to load. WOW is still not complete, 100%, because it is mostly impossible to do economically.
    At least Brad came out and said what we all know, MONEY is the issue, the people with the money put on the pressure, take up your complaints with them.



    At this point, I don't even care.  I'm playing the game, and if it gets too frustrating, I'll leave.  However, it's pretty funny that everyone keeps refering back to WoW's launch and comparing.  How long is this going to happen?  I have the feeling that 30 years from now, a new MMO will come out buggy, and some crotchity old guy on a forum is going to say, "Don't be too hard on this new MMO!  I remember 32 years ago when WoW came out, it was buggy too!"   LoL!  Who Cares about WoW?!?  Heck, there's more talk about WoW in this forum than there is on the official WoW boards!  This is the Vanguard Forum, so let's talk about Vanguard! 

     

     

  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by DMEnoc


    Right and I edited that part before you actually posted this reply.
     
    No you didn't show any valid points.  You simply said you never saw them.  Plain and Simple.  So if you didn't see them they don't exist?  Well half of the problems you seem to have talked about in VG I haven't actually seen. So that must mean they don't exist right?
    As far as to what was actually happening w/ the mage spells since you just want to argue for whatever reason, is that in AM you would channel the spell but wouldn't actually cast anything and it would still consume your mana.  With Blink if there was the tiniest glitch  in the terrain you would be stopped by it even if you were only one foot from it when you blinked.  Then there was always the great possiblity of blinking backwards right into what was chasing you to begin with.  The nefarion bug was introduced by the devs.  While it wasn't intentionaly, they put it there, not the players.
    Server stability is still a huge issue on older servers.  Stormrage is almost empty now because of the horrible server stability (They have since upgraded that server but the damage was already done). 
    Over the course of the first month of release, you couldn't even connect to the game half the time and when you did, you had about a 70% chance of getting booted out and have to sit in another Queue for an hour.  Mobs were under the ground and warping all over the place, events weren't working, spells weren't fully working and talents were broke.  Half of what Blizzard did to fix this was just to remove them from the game and re-introdue them later and label them as 'new content'.
    It's funny how you played at release but you didn't seem to notice any of this but yet it's glaring in another game.
     
    And why are my posts being deleted?
    Why should I back up my defense with evidence, if your not even going to bother elaborating a full description of said bugs, how and when they occur, then back them up with your own evidence.



    I experienced a bug with arcane not showing, but the damage was being done as it showed in combat logs. As for Blink, never had any troubles, backward teleports, nor have I heard of any mages complaining about them. When did you experience these issues?



    Do you have evidence to backup your hypothesis that Blizzard intentionally bugged Nefarion?



    This claim to consistant lagg (now) I find it hard to believe, I played US retail, YES it was laggy, but it was resolved with 2-3 months. I played on a medium pop server and I rarely lagged. However, ive played on the high pop servers on EU and noticed lagg. There is a solution, one where you dont need to delve into .ini files... Just switch servers



    As for the retail lagg, yeah that was pretty bad. But it doesnt hold to your original point. You still havent pointed out what bugs WoW had from day 1 (or development phases).



    What makes you assume I havent experienced it?





    Your posts are being deleted becuase they are inflamitory and against the rules... Happens when you use personal insults in threads.

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  • takaris7takaris7 Member Posts: 145
    Originally posted by Shayde

    WoW was finished. CoH was finished.



    He's basically telling us to all lower the bar so they can jump it without effort.



    Screw you Brad. Give us a complete game... unless we can just pay you when it's done.


    Wow was finished in what regard?  Are you telling me that they didnt nerf over powered class? Close off some zones? are you telling me there are no server downtime for patches and repairs? Are you telling me their entire code is working as indented without exploit? Are you telling me there is no lag or server wait lines? Are you telling me there is no issue with PVP? Are you telling me that no one is complaining that warrior is overpowered? Are you telling me some quests are not broken?



    Are you telling me that COH didnt change the COH classes? nerf them all to hell? Are you telling me that some quests are not broken? there isnt a cape bug? That their isnt a problem with some power sets? crafting was borked? (its kinda alright now) Your telling me they didnt have issues at launch?



    HA.



    Ive seen you around though and i know you are bitter about SWG so ill let it go ... we will never get over that one.



    But overall COH/COV .... great game.

  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc


    Right and I edited that part before you actually posted this reply.
     
    No you didn't show any valid points.  You simply said you never saw them.  Plain and Simple.  So if you didn't see them they don't exist?  Well half of the problems you seem to have talked about in VG I haven't actually seen. So that must mean they don't exist right?
    As far as to what was actually happening w/ the mage spells since you just want to argue for whatever reason, is that in AM you would channel the spell but wouldn't actually cast anything and it would still consume your mana.  With Blink if there was the tiniest glitch  in the terrain you would be stopped by it even if you were only one foot from it when you blinked.  Then there was always the great possiblity of blinking backwards right into what was chasing you to begin with.  The nefarion bug was introduced by the devs.  While it wasn't intentionaly, they put it there, not the players.
    Server stability is still a huge issue on older servers.  Stormrage is almost empty now because of the horrible server stability (They have since upgraded that server but the damage was already done). 
    Over the course of the first month of release, you couldn't even connect to the game half the time and when you did, you had about a 70% chance of getting booted out and have to sit in another Queue for an hour.  Mobs were under the ground and warping all over the place, events weren't working, spells weren't fully working and talents were broke.  Half of what Blizzard did to fix this was just to remove them from the game and re-introdue them later and label them as 'new content'.
    It's funny how you played at release but you didn't seem to notice any of this but yet it's glaring in another game.
     
    And why are my posts being deleted?
    Why should I back up my defense with evidence, if your not even going to bother elaborating a full description of said bugs, how and when they occur, then back them up with your own evidence.



    I experienced a bug with arcane not showing, but the damage was being done as it showed in combat logs. As for Blink, never had any troubles, backward teleports, nor have I heard of any mages complaining about them. When did you experience these issues?



    Do you have evidence to backup your hypothesis that Blizzard intentionally bugged Nefarion?



    This claim to consistant lagg (now) I find it hard to believe, I played US retail, YES it was laggy, but it was resolved with 2-3 months. I played on a medium pop server and I rarely lagged. However, ive played on the high pop servers on EU and noticed lagg. There is a solution, one where you dont need to delve into .ini files... Just switch servers



    As for the retail lagg, yeah that was pretty bad. But it doesnt hold to your original point. You still havent pointed out what bugs WoW had from day 1 (or development phases).



    What makes you assume I havent experienced it?





    Your posts are being deleted becuase they are inflamitory and against the rules... Happens when you use personal insults in threads.

    Re-read my post and then read your and reply again thanks. To help you with said proof, http://www.worldofwarcraft.com go to the forums, release notes and patch fixes.  And here is a thread about the nef. bug http://www.primaldevolution.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4242#30070 .
  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    So where in your links does it prove the Nefarion bug was intentionally placed their by devs?

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  • takaris7takaris7 Member Posts: 145
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc


    Right and I edited that part before you actually posted this reply.
     
    No you didn't show any valid points.  You simply said you never saw them.  Plain and Simple.  So if you didn't see them they don't exist?  Well half of the problems you seem to have talked about in VG I haven't actually seen. So that must mean they don't exist right?
    As far as to what was actually happening w/ the mage spells since you just want to argue for whatever reason, is that in AM you would channel the spell but wouldn't actually cast anything and it would still consume your mana.  With Blink if there was the tiniest glitch  in the terrain you would be stopped by it even if you were only one foot from it when you blinked.  Then there was always the great possiblity of blinking backwards right into what was chasing you to begin with.  The nefarion bug was introduced by the devs.  While it wasn't intentionaly, they put it there, not the players.
    Server stability is still a huge issue on older servers.  Stormrage is almost empty now because of the horrible server stability (They have since upgraded that server but the damage was already done). 
    Over the course of the first month of release, you couldn't even connect to the game half the time and when you did, you had about a 70% chance of getting booted out and have to sit in another Queue for an hour.  Mobs were under the ground and warping all over the place, events weren't working, spells weren't fully working and talents were broke.  Half of what Blizzard did to fix this was just to remove them from the game and re-introdue them later and label them as 'new content'.
    It's funny how you played at release but you didn't seem to notice any of this but yet it's glaring in another game.
     
    And why are my posts being deleted?
    Why should I back up my defense with evidence, if your not even going to bother elaborating a full description of said bugs, how and when they occur, then back them up with your own evidence.



    I experienced a bug with arcane not showing, but the damage was being done as it showed in combat logs. As for Blink, never had any troubles, backward teleports, nor have I heard of any mages complaining about them. When did you experience these issues?



    Do you have evidence to backup your hypothesis that Blizzard intentionally bugged Nefarion?



    This claim to consistant lagg (now) I find it hard to believe, I played US retail, YES it was laggy, but it was resolved with 2-3 months. I played on a medium pop server and I rarely lagged. However, ive played on the high pop servers on EU and noticed lagg. There is a solution, one where you dont need to delve into .ini files... Just switch servers





    Actually I was dealing with alot of lag in Vanguard for a bit .... after a little research i discovered that for at least 60% of the time it was not Sigil's/SOE fault but my wireless connection was borked by VISTA.



    There is a issue with a chunk or two and the large amounts of people in one area that i have experienced ... but nothing i have never experienced before in any other game ... during the morning the chunk is fine and i can move about it without problem ... its strange cause i didnt get that problem when i was in BETA.





    As for the retail lagg, yeah that was pretty bad. But it doesnt hold to your original point. You still havent pointed out what bugs WoW had from day 1 (or development phases).



    WOw had alot of bugs at start but they just dont want to admit it .... Finished game? well it had cartoon graphics and the chat rooms were operating some times ... or did they crash ? I think they crashed a lot when i started playing. Hummm.







    What makes you assume I havent experienced it?





    Your posts are being deleted becuase they are inflamitory and against the rules... Happens when you use personal insults in threads.
  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc


    Right and I edited that part before you actually posted this reply.
     
    No you didn't show any valid points.  You simply said you never saw them.  Plain and Simple.  So if you didn't see them they don't exist?  Well half of the problems you seem to have talked about in VG I haven't actually seen. So that must mean they don't exist right?
    As far as to what was actually happening w/ the mage spells since you just want to argue for whatever reason, is that in AM you would channel the spell but wouldn't actually cast anything and it would still consume your mana.  With Blink if there was the tiniest glitch  in the terrain you would be stopped by it even if you were only one foot from it when you blinked.  Then there was always the great possiblity of blinking backwards right into what was chasing you to begin with.  The nefarion bug was introduced by the devs.  While it wasn't intentionaly, they put it there, not the players.
    Server stability is still a huge issue on older servers.  Stormrage is almost empty now because of the horrible server stability (They have since upgraded that server but the damage was already done). 
    Over the course of the first month of release, you couldn't even connect to the game half the time and when you did, you had about a 70% chance of getting booted out and have to sit in another Queue for an hour.  Mobs were under the ground and warping all over the place, events weren't working, spells weren't fully working and talents were broke.  Half of what Blizzard did to fix this was just to remove them from the game and re-introdue them later and label them as 'new content'.
    It's funny how you played at release but you didn't seem to notice any of this but yet it's glaring in another game.
     
    And why are my posts being deleted?
    Why should I back up my defense with evidence, if your not even going to bother elaborating a full description of said bugs, how and when they occur, then back them up with your own evidence.



    I experienced a bug with arcane not showing, but the damage was being done as it showed in combat logs. As for Blink, never had any troubles, backward teleports, nor have I heard of any mages complaining about them. When did you experience these issues?



    Do you have evidence to backup your hypothesis that Blizzard intentionally bugged Nefarion?



    This claim to consistant lagg (now) I find it hard to believe, I played US retail, YES it was laggy, but it was resolved with 2-3 months. I played on a medium pop server and I rarely lagged. However, ive played on the high pop servers on EU and noticed lagg. There is a solution, one where you dont need to delve into .ini files... Just switch servers



    As for the retail lagg, yeah that was pretty bad. But it doesnt hold to your original point. You still havent pointed out what bugs WoW had from day 1 (or development phases).



    What makes you assume I havent experienced it?





    Your posts are being deleted becuase they are inflamitory and against the rules... Happens when you use personal insults in threads.

    Re-read my post and then read your and reply again thanks.OK



    Why should I back up my defense with evidence, if your not even going to bother elaborating a full description of said bugs, how and when they occur, then back them up with your own evidence.



    I experienced a bug with arcane not showing, but the damage was being done as it showed in combat logs. As for Blink, never had any troubles, backward teleports, nor have I heard of any mages complaining about them. When did you experience these issues?



    Do you have evidence to backup your hypothesis that Blizzard intentionally bugged Nefarion?



    This claim to consistant lagg (now) I find it hard to believe, I played US retail, YES it was laggy, but it was resolved with 2-3 months. I played on a medium pop server and I rarely lagged. However, ive played on the high pop servers on EU and noticed lagg. There is a solution, one where you dont need to delve into .ini files... Just switch servers



    As for the retail lagg, yeah that was pretty bad. But it doesnt hold to your original point. You still havent pointed out what bugs WoW had from day 1 (or development phases).



    What makes you assume I havent experienced it?





    Your posts are being deleted becuase they are inflamitory and against the rules... Happens when you use personal insults in threads.



    Ok.  Lets play this game  =)

    Show me evidence in my post where I said they did it intentionally.

    I would post the screen shots of the bugs but just never thought I would need them.

    Here are some links to help you w/ the proof you so desire: http://www.primaldevolution.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4242#30070

    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com go to patch notes, fixes, known issues, then go to the forums (specially the mage forums).  It would be easier but it would appear that Blizzard decided to delete everything from the forums a couple months ago so most of the stuff from release is gone now.

  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Eep, Wireless is awful, get rid of it fast!



    As for WoW bugs, ive discussed this with a few people and all ive ever heard on the "WoW was released buggy" front is totem icons that dont look correct and lagg.

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  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by DMEnoc


    Ok.  Lets play this game  =)
    Show me evidence in my post where I said they did it intentionally.
    I would post the screen shots of the bugs but just never thought I would need them.
    Here are some links to help you w/ the proof you so desire: http://www.primaldevolution.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4242#30070
    http://www.worldofwarcraft.com go to patch notes, fixes, known issues, then go to the forums (specially the mage forums).  It would be easier but it would appear that Blizzard decided to delete everything from the forums a couple months ago so most of the stuff from release is gone now.
    "Blizzard devs just introduced a whole new bug into the game not that long ago that turns every member of a raid into a warrior during the Nefarion fight. "



    The word "Introduced", suggests, it was intentionally put there by Blizzard.

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  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Eep, Wireless is awful, get rid of it fast!



    As for WoW bugs, ive discussed this with a few people and all ive ever heard on the "WoW was released buggy" front is totem icons that dont look correct and lagg.

    Must have been pretty short conversations.  I can get a list together tomorrow if you like, it'll take me several hours to compile the list from the people I know who have played wow.

  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Eep, Wireless is awful, get rid of it fast!



    As for WoW bugs, ive discussed this with a few people and all ive ever heard on the "WoW was released buggy" front is totem icons that dont look correct and lagg.

    Must have been pretty short conversations.  I can get a list together tomorrow if you like, it'll take me several hours to compile the list from the people I know who have played wow.

    Go for it, list the bugs, with evidence, a blizzard forums post with a Dev acknowledging the bug would do. What I dont want to see is opinion.



    Also if you manage to find any bugs that have been there since day 1. You will have succeeded in stopping me arguing this point forever.

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  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Eep, Wireless is awful, get rid of it fast!



    As for WoW bugs, ive discussed this with a few people and all ive ever heard on the "WoW was released buggy" front is totem icons that dont look correct and lagg.

    Must have been pretty short conversations.  I can get a list together tomorrow if you like, it'll take me several hours to compile the list from the people I know who have played wow.

    Go for it, list the bugs, with evidence, a blizzard forums post with a Dev acknowledging the bug would do. What I dont want to see is opinion.



    Also if you manage to find any bugs that have been there since day 1. You will have succeeded in stopping me arguing this point forever.



    will do  =)  BTW, So they have to be bugs that have been in the game for over 2 years while we are comparing this to a game that has been out for 3 weeks? Thats fair  =).  Showing you the forum posts will be hard though cause like I said.  They deleted 99% of the posts a few months ago when they redesigned the boards.

     

    BTW here are some definitions of the word introduce.




    in·tro·duce  (ntr-ds, -dys)
    tr.v. in·tro·duced, in·tro·duc·ing, in·tro·duc·es
    1.  To present (a performer, for example) to the public for the first time.

    2.To provide (someone) with a beginning knowledge or first experience of something: introduced me to weightlifting.

    3. To bring in and establish in a new place or environment: exotic plants that had been introduced from the jungle.
    4. To put inside or into; insert or inject.






  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Eep, Wireless is awful, get rid of it fast!



    As for WoW bugs, ive discussed this with a few people and all ive ever heard on the "WoW was released buggy" front is totem icons that dont look correct and lagg.

    Must have been pretty short conversations.  I can get a list together tomorrow if you like, it'll take me several hours to compile the list from the people I know who have played wow.

    Go for it, list the bugs, with evidence, a blizzard forums post with a Dev acknowledging the bug would do. What I dont want to see is opinion.



    Also if you manage to find any bugs that have been there since day 1. You will have succeeded in stopping me arguing this point forever.

    will do  =)  BTW, So they have to be bugs that have been in the game for over 2 years while we are comparing this to a game that has been out for 3 weeks? Thats fair  =).  Showing you the forum posts will be hard though cause like I said.  They deleted 99% of the posts a few months ago when they redesigned the boards. I dont care, YOU said this game had bugs from day 1. Be prepared to backup what you say, or dont say it at all.



    Anyway, im going to bed, its 2am. o/

    ---
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  • cbascbas Member Posts: 111

    Game was several months from being finished, it was released because they ran out of money.  Microsoft got rid of them because they were behind and SEO came along and picked them up and most likely "saved" the game (feels strange to write that).  My guess is they were probably given an ultimatum by Sony to put out their game or it would never see the light of day (and along with it Sigil would have gone down the tubes).

    Anything they say contray to that is just damage control to ensure that the cash keeps coming in.  Had they not started getting some revenue into their company it would have gone bankrupt and Brad would be eating noodles and  k-dinner with the guys from Interplay (pretty sure they under at the moment??) right now. 

    With that said I've played VG and like it a lot.  Hope it survives this tough period.

    Also though I liked what he said about the game not being finished, and appreciate that, he could have done without the cheese dick line that ".. and that's why I love these games: because they should never be finished" 

    To me that just reeks of corporate smarminess.  Perhaps he's been hanging out with Smedley too long.

  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153
    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Eep, Wireless is awful, get rid of it fast!



    As for WoW bugs, ive discussed this with a few people and all ive ever heard on the "WoW was released buggy" front is totem icons that dont look correct and lagg.

    Must have been pretty short conversations.  I can get a list together tomorrow if you like, it'll take me several hours to compile the list from the people I know who have played wow.

    Go for it, list the bugs, with evidence, a blizzard forums post with a Dev acknowledging the bug would do. What I dont want to see is opinion.



    Also if you manage to find any bugs that have been there since day 1. You will have succeeded in stopping me arguing this point forever.

    will do  =)  BTW, So they have to be bugs that have been in the game for over 2 years while we are comparing this to a game that has been out for 3 weeks? Thats fair  =).  Showing you the forum posts will be hard though cause like I said.  They deleted 99% of the posts a few months ago when they redesigned the boards.I dont care, YOU said this game had bugs from day 1. Be prepared to backup what you say, or dont say it at all.



    Anyway, im going to bed, its 2am. o/

    Point out where I said that please.
  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

    Originally posted by godpuppet

    Eep, Wireless is awful, get rid of it fast!



    As for WoW bugs, ive discussed this with a few people and all ive ever heard on the "WoW was released buggy" front is totem icons that dont look correct and lagg.

    Must have been pretty short conversations.  I can get a list together tomorrow if you like, it'll take me several hours to compile the list from the people I know who have played wow.

    Go for it, list the bugs, with evidence, a blizzard forums post with a Dev acknowledging the bug would do. What I dont want to see is opinion.



    Also if you manage to find any bugs that have been there since day 1. You will have succeeded in stopping me arguing this point forever.

    will do  =)  BTW, So they have to be bugs that have been in the game for over 2 years while we are comparing this to a game that has been out for 3 weeks? Thats fair  =).  Showing you the forum posts will be hard though cause like I said.  They deleted 99% of the posts a few months ago when they redesigned the boards.I dont care, YOU said this game had bugs from day 1. Be prepared to backup what you say, or dont say it at all.



    Anyway, im going to bed, its 2am. o/

    Point out where I said that please. 'vylo' said there were bugs day 1, godpuppet responded with a simple "Such as?", you responded backing vylo's claims up.



    *throws a barrel of gasoline on the fire*
  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153
    Oh..missed that.  Oh well shouldn't be that hard.  I'm sure the mage bugs are still in the game as they have been since day 1.
  • SpectralHunterSpectralHunter Member UncommonPosts: 455
    Just want to add my 2 cents.



    Like others have said, MMOs evolve and grow but they should be finished at launch.  Brad's quote makes me sick.  Why didn't he just launch with the basic code?  Surely it's not finished then either.  Heck, then the paying customers could debug from the start.  I have no respect for Brad anymore.
  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153


    Originally posted by SpectralHunt
    Just want to add my 2 cents.Like others have said, MMOs evolve and grow but they should be finished at launch.  Brad's quote makes me sick.  Why didn't he just launch with the basic code?  Surely it's not finished then either.  Heck, then the paying customers could debug from the start.  I have no respect for Brad anymore.

    Funny thing is, I remember everyone saying that about WoW too, cept the Brad part.

  • SpectralHunterSpectralHunter Member UncommonPosts: 455
    Originally posted by DMEnoc


     

    Originally posted by SpectralHunt

    Just want to add my 2 cents.
    Like others have said, MMOs evolve and grow but they should be finished at launch.  Brad's quote makes me sick.  Why didn't he just launch with the basic code?  Surely it's not finished then either.  Heck, then the paying customers could debug from the start.  I have no respect for Brad anymore.

    Funny thing is, I remember everyone saying that about WoW too, cept the Brad part.

    Well if Blizzard was quoted the same way as Brad, then they are insane too.  But I don't remember the devs in Blizzard saying something like this but it's not like I keep track of all these things.
  • DMEnocDMEnoc Member Posts: 153


    Originally posted by SpectralHunt

    Originally posted by DMEnoc

     



    Originally posted by SpectralHunt
    Just want to add my 2 cents.
    Like others have said, MMOs evolve and grow but they should be finished at launch.  Brad's quote makes me sick.  Why didn't he just launch with the basic code?  Surely it's not finished then either.  Heck, then the paying customers could debug from the start.  I have no respect for Brad anymore.


    Funny thing is, I remember everyone saying that about WoW too, cept the Brad part.

    Well if Blizzard was quoted the same way as Brad, then they are insane too.  But I don't remember the devs in Blizzard saying something like this but it's not like I keep track of all these things.

    I was referring to his statement about paying to test the game, not Brad's statement which I actually pointed out in my post.

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