I like Vanguard, i used to love it at release, but I keep experiencing bugs more and more as I venture into hte wild and keep pumping in hours and hours of gameplay. in comparison, WoW did have almost flawless release, barely any bugs at all. Server instability doesnt count, its not a bug, its technical support. Vanguard is plagued by bugs, most are cosmetic, but some are nasty. I havent realy encountered any bugs that would stop me from playing, but some were close:
- flying island bug that locks zones, so that I am unable to finish that damned Taint of the Yukianna quest... for 2 weeks now.
- falling under the world, while not critical it can be annoying if u haveto "/stuck yes" it and appear far from where u were and where u were trying to get.
- grouping bugs, annoying as hell, a group member shows to be in group but in fact isnt.
- looting bug. I lose a few juicy loot becuase of this.
- other wierd bugs like crashing to desktop, coming back and finding yourself in a totaly different locations with some of your equipment missing (luckily my equipment appeared in my inventory several logins later). Those are just a few bugs. They dont happen all that often, but the annoyance factor does stack in. There will come a point when someone says F!@#K it, im going to play <insert your MMORPG drug here>. I realy hope Vanguard will survive this and is gonna be fixed. but I dont believe in Sigil and Brad anymore. All his words are just...words. I dont know what the devs are doing, they were showing a realy amazing development speed in beta, but after release - nothing. Several patches even nerfed some of the key components of the game (Crafting and diplomacy), crafting used to be so bad u couldnt finish easy task half the time at grade B. Diplomacy is still bad, its either too easy or too hard. I bought Vanguard but I dont consider myself an idiot. I was in beta so i saw the level of patching and updates. I truly believed that things will be well in a few weeks. But i guess it was all a marketing ploy - show half of what you have, then in a matter of weeks bring that other half in in a form of patches and updates, thus duping people into thinking u actualy developed that other half in such a short term. This is a whole new marketing trick. For that, hats down Brad. And for that, your name will be used as a curse for many years. Welcome to the dark side, Brad. EDIT: some spelling errors.. its late, im drunk, forgive me
Here is a partial list of the bugs from release that I promised.
These are from the patch notes at worldofwar.net and official site.
Using the spell Blink could cause you to fall through the world
If you clicked on an item while disenchanting another, you would lose the item.
Group members of one group could remove members from another
Database Queries (for items or mobs) could crash to desktop
Players being locked out of their guilds isntances
NPC's getting stuck in evade mode
Onyxia would teleport from one point to another (causing you to lose target)
Group loot permission bug that was telling players they did not have permission to loot.
Scrolling through the auction house window causing the game to freeze
Warriors charge would path you through an entire dungeon
Several zones like Azshara, Loch Modan, Ashenvale had many places where you could become stuck
Alt tabbing could screw up your character graphics
As of patch 1.4.1 they were still working on disconnect issues (this patch was released 5/4/05)
If a caster went LD while casting, other players nearby would lock up
Crashing if a chat channel had too many members in it
If you died in lava, your release spirit box would pop up
LUA errors when linking items into chat
In large fights, using projectiles (spells or or otherwise) could cause you to crash
If you used an instant cast ability while jumping you could get stuck
German client crashes weren't fixed until 1.8.3
Still workin on disconnect issues as of patch 1.9.3
Warriors charge could desync you from server if you charged from water to land
(translation: you weren't actually on the server anymore but still able to play)
Client crashes when you recieved some friendslist notifications
Crashing when you create a guild tabard while shapeshifted/in-costume
Lockup bugs from being near ships, zepplins or the tram
This list shows at least one instance of everything you just said. I took that from WoW's own patch notes.
I am not sure about those bugs...not saying they dont exist, but I havent experienced them in my play time. I played WoW for over a year (on and off) and Ive only seen a handfull of bugs, Arcane missile bug, Evade monster bug, loot bug. With vanguard, im beginning to experience many more bugs in the first few weeks. At first, I didnt seem to experience many bugs, but as soon as i reached level 5 and started wondering in different areas I started experiencing those bugs people keep talking about. Judging from the number of people complaining, ive concluded that those bugs are not an exception, but rather common.
I can still deal with most of those bugs, if they dont occur too often, and they dont. During 3-4 hours of gameplay ill have my group bugged once or twice (easy to fix), ill crash to desktop maybe once, and maybe fall through the ground... its annoying, but im handling it so far. What im not handling too well is lack of support and development. I petitioned a bug yesterday (lost some items after crashing to desktop) but 1 day later - no reply. A friend of mine petitioned bugged floating island (earth island) 2 days ago... petition is still open. This lack of support (combined with no official forums to complain/report/suggest bugs) is troubling me. It feels like Sigil doesnt care about their customers. And customers like to be cared about. And on occasion pampered.
WoW, wasn't finished, and still isn't. It was more polished, that is all. There are still bugs in the game that were there from day 1.
Such as?
This is a joke right? Guess you never played a rogue. How many times did they try to fix vanish? I lost count, and as of BC, it still didn't work. Hasn't worked since day one. Then there are fun "working as intended" bugs, like pets seeing through stealth from 900 miles away. Oh, and last time they tried to fix vanish, they made this bug applied to it. Not much more is frustrating then vanishing, having a pet hit, you, prep, vanish, and then having the pet hit you AGAIN. Considering how important stealth is to that class, you would think they could get that skill right, but more then 2 years later its still broken.
We had a bug with our special attacks that took 6 months for them to fix. Then when they actually fixed it, they nerfed the class. Paladins had a skill bugged long enough for me to get to 56 before they finally fixed it, and it was a bug that broke the class.
If you want less invasive bugs you can always go with the "name the size of ironforge" bug.
Then there is the bug where you get stuck on the griffin.
There are still the same pathing exploits in ZF and DM that people have used since the beginning.
At least with BC they finally corrected the 18 month old bug where the bloodelves had no animation.
Last I checked the horde quest just inside ashenvale is STILL bugged. Everytime I tried to do that thing I had to do it 2-3 times to complete it.
You can go on and try to make big deals out of spilled milk bugs of WoW that apparently weren't systemic or gamebreaking enough to keep people from playing it, but fact of the matter is you weren't using Vanish and losing levels, didn't have to tweak your .ini settings for Arcane Missile to work, or you Charge and lose items during your claymation animations; it isn't comparable.
In terms of number of bugs, and severity of bugs, Vanguard is far worse. World of Warcraft HAVING bugs is not the same. No two games with bugs in them are equal. Gothic 3 and Oblivion were not of the same quality at release just because both contained bugs. That's a point you're refusing to get because WITHOUT getting it you're able to insist World of Warcraft and Vanguard should be viewed exactly the same and judged the same.
No, you're going out on a limb further and totally disavowing the existence of Vanguard's bugs simply because you haven't experienced them. Yet you'll go and dredge up old WoW patch notes from a time you probably didn't even play, from classes you certainly hadn't played all of concurrently? Right, no scent of a biased agenda there.
And that's exactly what this is, an agenda to not speak constructively on the state of two games during comparable time periods and thusly raise the bar of what you want in a quality product; no, it's realizing inside that Vanguard has lowered the bar, and for its launch to be seen as legitimately 'good', everything else preceding it must have sucked.
Ok then, you go on and believe Vanguard was good enough to launch just because Sigil told you to. And the bugs that you experience everyday don't matter just because Sigil avows their existence. You were gonna do that anyway, but I get the feeling being on these boards will continue to be quite miserable for you if you're taking it upon yourself to disavow the existence of any problems in Vanguard while perpetuating the claim that over 8 million people are totally clueless than they're playing a game just as buggy today as Vanguard is.
You can go on and try to make big deals out of spilled milk bugs of WoW that apparently weren't systemic or gamebreaking enough to keep people from playing it, but fact of the matter is you weren't using Vanish and losing levels, didn't have to tweak your .ini settings for Arcane Missile to work, or you Charge and lose items during your claymation animations; it isn't comparable.
In terms of number of bugs, and severity of bugs, Vanguard is far worse. World of Warcraft HAVING bugs is not the same. No two games with bugs in them are equal. Gothic 3 and Oblivion were not of the same quality at release just because both contained bugs. That's a point you're refusing to get because WITHOUT getting it you're able to insist World of Warcraft and Vanguard should be viewed exactly the same and judged the same.
No, you're going out on a limb further and totally disavowing the existence of Vanguard's bugs simply because you haven't experienced them. Yet you'll go and dredge up old WoW patch notes from a time you probably didn't even play, from classes you certainly hadn't played all of concurrently? Right, no scent of a biased agenda there.
And that's exactly what this is, an agenda to not speak constructively on the state of two games during comparable time periods and thusly raise the bar of what you want in a quality product; no, it's realizing inside that Vanguard has lowered the bar, and for its launch to be seen as legitimately 'good', everything else preceding it must have sucked.
Ok then, you go on and believe Vanguard was good enough to launch just because Sigil told you to. And the bugs that you experience everyday don't matter just because Sigil avows their existence. You were gonna do that anyway, but I get the feeling being on these boards will continue to be quite miserable for you if you're taking it upon yourself to disavow the existence of any problems in Vanguard while perpetuating the claim that over 8 million people are totally clueless than they're playing a game just as buggy today as Vanguard is.
I don't think anyone here is denying that MMORPGS at launch don't have some quantity of bugs / lack of polish at release, its just that for many here (me included) Vanguard has a higher level of inadequacy than what we've come to (or should) expect as paying customers.
And Mr McQuaid spewing his rhetoric this late in the day also makes me a little sour. WoW at launch was a (mostly) a victim of it's own success. Vanguard has fallen short (in my own expectations) to the over-bloated egos of it's developers.
Well lets see Vanguard is extremely buggy and has been out for less then 1 month. Wow is extremely buggy and has been out for over 2 years. So I guess the only way we can compare is to see how Vanguard looks 2 years from now.
For all of the people saying they never experienced WoW's bugs and saying they aren't a big deal, then neither are Vanguard's. There are plenty of people playing who don't have their play experience interupted by either games bugs.
But to say WoW doesnt have any game breaking bugs still in the game. That were in the game from Day 1. Is just a flat out liar and true fanboy. Rogues were broken at release, are still broken, and will probably always be broken. Blizzard just can't seem to get their vanish to work correctly. Also, the loot bug is still in this game 2 years later. Even after their first expansion was released.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
And also for the person that said the loot bug is just a minor bug. No! Any bug that makes you log out of the game because you can't play otherwise is a MAJOR bug.
Vanguard I hear has some MAJOR bugs as well. I haven't expierenced them yet. I have seen the minor bugs of a mob dissapearing and then you have to back up for it to reappear. Yes it is really annoying. Currently im not playing either WoW or Vanguard. I am playing the Beta for LOTRO. Which I think will show both games how to properly launch. LOTRO in its Beta 2 is a more polished game with less bugs then Vanguard and WoW.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
You can go on and try to make big deals out of spilled milk bugs of WoW that apparently weren't systemic or gamebreaking enough to keep people from playing it, but fact of the matter is you weren't using Vanish and losing levels, didn't have to tweak your .ini settings for Arcane Missile to work, or you Charge and lose items during your claymation animations; it isn't comparable.
In terms of number of bugs, and severity of bugs, Vanguard is far worse. World of Warcraft HAVING bugs is not the same. No two games with bugs in them are equal. Gothic 3 and Oblivion were not of the same quality at release just because both contained bugs. That's a point you're refusing to get because WITHOUT getting it you're able to insist World of Warcraft and Vanguard should be viewed exactly the same and judged the same.
No, you're going out on a limb further and totally disavowing the existence of Vanguard's bugs simply because you haven't experienced them. Yet you'll go and dredge up old WoW patch notes from a time you probably didn't even play, from classes you certainly hadn't played all of concurrently? Right, no scent of a biased agenda there.
And that's exactly what this is, an agenda to not speak constructively on the state of two games during comparable time periods and thusly raise the bar of what you want in a quality product; no, it's realizing inside that Vanguard has lowered the bar, and for its launch to be seen as legitimately 'good', everything else preceding it must have sucked.
Ok then, you go on and believe Vanguard was good enough to launch just because Sigil told you to. And the bugs that you experience everyday don't matter just because Sigil avows their existence. You were gonna do that anyway, but I get the feeling being on these boards will continue to be quite miserable for you if you're taking it upon yourself to disavow the existence of any problems in Vanguard while perpetuating the claim that over 8 million people are totally clueless than they're playing a game just as buggy today as Vanguard is.
May you succeed!
QFT
That's one of my biggest gripes with this board. The downright, adamant refusal to admit that Vanguard is a broken, buggy game which has broken the damn bar in half.
WoW had plenty of bugs, and it still has bugs. HOWEVER, with WoW:
- I did NOT have to use tweaks to get the game to perform above 10 FPS.
- I never had problems with equipment disappearing, or being re-equipped elsewhere
- No one I knew was banned for crafting too much and being a suspected gold-seller (ridiculous!)
- Levels weren't randomly reset
- I didn't log-in to find myself on a completely different continent then where I last logged out
- The game played better in beta than Vanguard does now, 3 weeks after release.
- Even though WoW had monotonous quests, at LEAST it went from "Kill 10 boars" to "Kill 10 Orcs". With Vanguard, you're killing the same damn thing, over and over and over.
Sepher, you said it best. Far too many users here have a damned agenda. I know many have labeled me as an anti-Vanguard person, which I might be currently, but not because I'm just bored and feel like hating to hate. This game warrants the hatred by it's lack of performance and the sheer ineptitude of the Sigil development team.
Perhaps I wouldn't be so negative if the game had some positive aspects. Perhaps I wouldn't condescend the people calling this "the best MMORPG out there" if it wasn't poorly beta tested and released prematurely with game-breaking bugs. Perhaps if some of the core promised elements had been delivered at release, such as functional player boats, or the Diplomat classes, I wouldn't be so critical about McQuaid and his empty promises. Finally, perhaps if Sigil fixed performance issues and critical bugs before they started to swing the nerf bat, I'd be more sympathetic towards the glaring problems noticed in this game. Perhaps if the community's attitude wasn't "I don't care if it's broken and buggy, I'm having fun and I'll pay for it" wasn't sending the message to MMO devs everywhere that it's ok to release incomplete products, than I'd be more open-minded. However, I can't do that, not until Sigil and Mcquaid show me some dramatic improvements.
Oh, and the first person who points out "But Cymdai, they've been working around the clock fixing problems!"
Well, here's a little fact. They wouldn't have been in this situation in the first place if they had managed their prolonged beta stages more effectively, and utilized their time more appropriately over the last year and some change. So I don't really care about their lack of sleep; this is a result of their own incompetence, and now they're working triple-time to compensate for their own inadequacies.
I had hoped Vanguard would become more stable and more promising once it released, but in my opinion, it's gotten worse. Sigil lost my faith awhile ago, and if they want it back, they'll have to EARN it through gameplay advancement and improvements, not on what will be there, and what they hope to incorporate, but what IS presented to me.
I wish people would stop trying to tear down other games, especially WoW, to try and justify the lack of perfomance in Vanguard. Vanguard and WoW are on two completely different levels, period.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Well lets see Vanguard is extremely buggy and has been out for less then 1 month. Wow is extremely buggy and has been out for over 2 years. So I guess the only way we can compare is to see how Vanguard looks 2 years from now.
For all of the people saying they never experienced WoW's bugs and saying they aren't a big deal, then neither are Vanguard's. There are plenty of people playing who don't have their play experience interupted by either games bugs.
But to say WoW doesnt have any game breaking bugs still in the game. That were in the game from Day 1. Is just a flat out liar and true fanboy. Rogues were broken at release, are still broken, and will probably always be broken. Blizzard just can't seem to get their vanish to work correctly. Also, the loot bug is still in this game 2 years later. Even after their first expansion was released.
Il ltry to clarify this as clearly as possible. WoW has bugs, Vanguard has bugs.
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Mind you, the amount of bugs are NOT unique bugs, but rather separate occasions of bugs interfering my gameplay. Some times its easy to fix, leaving group, doing /stuck yes or something else. But sometimes it is more severe, forcing me to relog, losing items or crashing to desktop.
There is NO doubt that WoW WAS much more polished then Vanguard at release. There is no doubt that Vanguard has much more bugs and they are more severe then WoW. But I still play Vanguard. Im a big less enthusiastic about it, but I still enjoy it. Why? Becuase regardless of all the bugs, the deep gameplay, various activities give me enough enjoyment to overcompensate frustration from the bugs... so far.
I dont trust Sigil and Brad anymore, but I still like Vanguard.
I could careless if vanguard has bugs myself every game ive ever played had bugs even World of warcraft and thier bugs. They where far more game breakng for me than anything ive seen in vanguard ,I played a grand Marshal rogue so i lived with bugs the whole time i played wow
My hats off to brad Mcquaid all pay sigil double the monthly fee before i play any other mmo out there even if they offered them free The game is f---ing sweet .
I could careless if vanguard has bugs myself every game ive ever played had bugs even World of warcraft and thier bugs. They where far more game breakng for me than anything ive seen in vanguard ,I played a grand Marshal rogue so i lived with bugs the whole time i played wow My hats off to brad Mcquaid all pay sigil double the monthly fee before i play any other mmo out there even if they offered them free The game is f---ing sweet .
In simple terms as this man stated ... we all have our bugs ... and depending on our ability to enjoy the game often live with these bugs...as the man stated here as well ... there are bugs in Wow ... regardless of what many say here ... some major that cause graphical errors to class ability and item bugs ... and Wow has been out for a bit .... (just check the Wow technical service forum) ... I am not saying that Wow is not a great game ... to each is own ...
Yes we compare cames because we need benchmarks ... something to base from ... Wow happens to be a good choice because it has its share of blind unseeing cult followers as well ... so with that i like to point out things that are similar ..
I am saying that yes...vanguard has bugs...yes...vanguard needs patching...yes...give vanguard its dues and chance to shine with the people that love it or some that have yet to love it... People with their expert coding experience ...MMO experience come on here and often state that "the devs dont know what they are doing" "devs are idiots" "WTF, how come they cant fix that yesterday" ...have no idea of the complex nature of these games...how they work ...or never even seen DOS ...yet they are experts in all things programming and MMO. Often times i read alot of the posts and they are not true ... just lies ... well not lies possibly ... just stunted opinions ...
Its quite strange.
These developers put in more time into these games then some major movies ... these games (yes even Wow) are a work of art worthy of our praise and attention. (not Dark and Light) If you dont want these kinda of issues ... even in single player PC games ... go play an xbox 360 ...well they get patched too dont they?
Well lets see Vanguard is extremely buggy and has been out for less then 1 month. Wow is extremely buggy and has been out for over 2 years. So I guess the only way we can compare is to see how Vanguard looks 2 years from now.
For all of the people saying they never experienced WoW's bugs and saying they aren't a big deal, then neither are Vanguard's. There are plenty of people playing who don't have their play experience interupted by either games bugs.
But to say WoW doesnt have any game breaking bugs still in the game. That were in the game from Day 1. Is just a flat out liar and true fanboy. Rogues were broken at release, are still broken, and will probably always be broken. Blizzard just can't seem to get their vanish to work correctly. Also, the loot bug is still in this game 2 years later. Even after their first expansion was released.
Il ltry to clarify this as clearly as possible. WoW has bugs, Vanguard has bugs.
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Hummm....bugs in beta? really....I would have never thought that was possible. Wow. I may have to rethink my whole idea about beta's and what they are for....geee...
OK now you are comparing vanguard (which just came out and is only weeks old) to Wow ...(that you just started playing a year ago) ...which has been out longer and has become a stable platform? Is that fair? EQ2 was pretty much unstable when it launched ...server issues .... Wow as well....EQ2 had this nasty habit of dropping me out of the planet cause of more reason then one .... Wow just recently had a black screen issue with me and downloading last patch issue ... which took a bit to resolve.
Mind you, the amount of bugs are NOT unique bugs, but rather separate occasions of bugs interfering my gameplay. Some times its easy to fix, leaving group, doing /stuck yes or something else. But sometimes it is more severe, forcing me to relog, losing items or crashing to desktop.
There is NO doubt that WoW WAS much more polished then Vanguard at release. There is no doubt that Vanguard has much more bugs and they are more severe then WoW. But I still play Vanguard. Im a big less enthusiastic about it, but I still enjoy it. Why? Becuase regardless of all the bugs, the deep gameplay, various activities give me enough enjoyment to overcompensate frustration from the bugs... so far.
Housing, crafting, boats, unwired flying mounts, no inviso server barriers, no true zones (though it still has zones), interesting combat abilities, more classes to play with, large land masses... that is keeping me interested.
I dont trust Sigil and Brad anymore, but I still like Vanguard.
Dont trust any of them but they run a bizz and they do have to make sound judgements ... If they make a mistake its on them. I hope they take the correct path ... that is all you should worry about.
I could careless if vanguard has bugs myself every game ive ever played had bugs even World of warcraft and thier bugs. They where far more game breakng for me than anything ive seen in vanguard ,I played a grand Marshal rogue so i lived with bugs the whole time i played wow My hats off to brad Mcquaid all pay sigil double the monthly fee before i play any other mmo out there even if they offered them free The game is f---ing sweet .
Yes. Every game has had bugs and will continue to have bugs. No surprise there.
The problem is one of pervasiveness. If only a relative few people experience a problem and its
impact is not that severe, it can be tolerated. If the impact is severe, all bets are off. Who decides
the impact ? The customer.
Many of the bugs in WoW that have been described earlier were not felt by a significant percentage of the
WoW population. If you did not play a rogue, mage, or warlock under the right conditions, you did not have the
problems. Contrast that with Vanguard where you could lose levels and items regardless of class, you
could crash to desktop regardless of class, you could experience tremendous lag regardless of class.
The bottom line is that no one expects a perfect game. WoW was certainly not perfect. However, WoW
was good enough to attract and hold the largest player base that has ever been held for almost two
years. Vanguard was not good enough to hold on to its most devoted fans for the trial month.
Originally posted by Fariic 2 months and you've never blinked backwards or stayed in the same spot? Try blinking over texture changes. My mage is 2 years old and blink has been broke since I created him. You should take a look at the mage forums to. And when you have to complete overhaul every class in the game then you can't call it polished. WoW spent 2 years completely redoing each class.
TBH, im glad Blizzard do overhauls, leaving the classes as they were, would have killed interest in this game for me, each time I come back im delighted with the interesting changes and discovering how to play my class... Fortunately, Blizzard is careful with their nerf stick.
I don't play WoW or CoH but apparently you do. So name some areas that aren't finished. As far as tweaks and refinements go no MMO is ever finished but we have a different situation with VG. It's not finished. Last I checked there are areas that are in complete lockdown. The areas that are open are so full of glitches and bugs that it's almost frustrating to play. I've never read about WoW or CoH having the problems that VG has. No, I'm not a "hater". I've been playing since Jan. 26 but in all likelihood I won't continue playing when my "free" month runs out on March 1. VG could be a very good game. Right now it isn't and all we have right now is the promise from Brad/Sigil that things will get better. I take that promise with a grain of salt because a company that releases a product unfinished for monetary reasons never seems to be able to come up with the money to fix it. I find it very interesting that there were "offiicial" forums when they wanted everyone to buy but as soon as the game went live the forums were shut down. Reminds me of some type of scam artist type thing.
Well lets see Vanguard is extremely buggy and has been out for less then 1 month. Wow is extremely buggy and has been out for over 2 years. So I guess the only way we can compare is to see how Vanguard looks 2 years from now.
For all of the people saying they never experienced WoW's bugs and saying they aren't a big deal, then neither are Vanguard's. There are plenty of people playing who don't have their play experience interupted by either games bugs.
But to say WoW doesnt have any game breaking bugs still in the game. That were in the game from Day 1. Is just a flat out liar and true fanboy. Rogues were broken at release, are still broken, and will probably always be broken. Blizzard just can't seem to get their vanish to work correctly. Also, the loot bug is still in this game 2 years later. Even after their first expansion was released.
Il ltry to clarify this as clearly as possible. WoW has bugs, Vanguard has bugs.
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Hummm....bugs in beta? really....I would have never thought that was possible. Wow. I may have to rethink my whole idea about beta's and what they are for....geee...
OK now you are comparing vanguard (which just came out and is only weeks old) to Wow ...(that you just started playing a year ago) ...which has been out longer and has become a stable platform? Is that fair? EQ2 was pretty much unstable when it launched ...server issues .... Wow as well....EQ2 had this nasty habit of dropping me out of the planet cause of more reason then one .... Wow just recently had a black screen issue with me and downloading last patch issue ... which took a bit to resolve.
I am comparing 1 year of WoW since release and 1 month of Vanguard since release. WoW in 1 year was about 5-10 times less buggy then Vanguard in 1 month. U misread my sentence, Im not comparing WoW since 1 year ago. Im comparing WoW since It released, and after playing it for a whole year - with playing Vanguard since release for a few weeks.
Mind you, the amount of bugs are NOT unique bugs, but rather separate occasions of bugs interfering my gameplay. Some times its easy to fix, leaving group, doing /stuck yes or something else. But sometimes it is more severe, forcing me to relog, losing items or crashing to desktop.
There is NO doubt that WoW WAS much more polished then Vanguard at release. There is no doubt that Vanguard has much more bugs and they are more severe then WoW. But I still play Vanguard. Im a big less enthusiastic about it, but I still enjoy it. Why? Becuase regardless of all the bugs, the deep gameplay, various activities give me enough enjoyment to overcompensate frustration from the bugs... so far.
Housing, crafting, boats, unwired flying mounts, no inviso server barriers, no true zones (though it still has zones), interesting combat abilities, more classes to play with, large land masses... that is keeping me interested.
Same here, except for housing, too expencive for me yet.
I dont trust Sigil and Brad anymore, but I still like Vanguard.
Dont trust any of them but they run a bizz and they do have to make sound judgements ... If they make a mistake its on them. I hope they take the correct path ... that is all you should worry about.
Yes, they have a business, but they arent supporting it as they should. CS is almost non existant. Petitions are unanswered for 2 days (still arent, might take more days before they get answered). There is no official forum, so we have to rely on 3rd party forums and player help. I dont worry much about bugs as they are, what I worry about is that they wont be fixed any time soon and theres no direct way to communicate with the development team.
You can go on and try to make big deals out of spilled milk bugs of WoW that apparently weren't systemic or gamebreaking enough to keep people from playing it, but fact of the matter is you weren't using Vanish and losing levels, didn't have to tweak your .ini settings for Arcane Missile to work, or you Charge and lose items during your claymation animations; it isn't comparable.
In terms of number of bugs, and severity of bugs, Vanguard is far worse. World of Warcraft HAVING bugs is not the same. No two games with bugs in them are equal. Gothic 3 and Oblivion were not of the same quality at release just because both contained bugs. That's a point you're refusing to get because WITHOUT getting it you're able to insist World of Warcraft and Vanguard should be viewed exactly the same and judged the same.
No, you're going out on a limb further and totally disavowing the existence of Vanguard's bugs simply because you haven't experienced them. Yet you'll go and dredge up old WoW patch notes from a time you probably didn't even play, from classes you certainly hadn't played all of concurrently? Right, no scent of a biased agenda there.
And that's exactly what this is, an agenda to not speak constructively on the state of two games during comparable time periods and thusly raise the bar of what you want in a quality product; no, it's realizing inside that Vanguard has lowered the bar, and for its launch to be seen as legitimately 'good', everything else preceding it must have sucked.
Ok then, you go on and believe Vanguard was good enough to launch just because Sigil told you to. And the bugs that you experience everyday don't matter just because Sigil avows their existence. You were gonna do that anyway, but I get the feeling being on these boards will continue to be quite miserable for you if you're taking it upon yourself to disavow the existence of any problems in Vanguard while perpetuating the claim that over 8 million people are totally clueless than they're playing a game just as buggy today as Vanguard is.
May you succeed!
Fallacy. Moving the goalposts.
Besides, the worst bug I ran into in VG was a NPC corpse dissappearing. I got stuck 3 times total in the game, and /stuck took care of that.
I already said WoW was more polished, but it wasn't complete. A similar bug to attack bonus one I listed existed in VG, but they already fixed it.
I'm not disavowing the problems VG has, nor did I ever say it was "good enough for launch", even the CEO of Sigil doesn't claim that.
Here's the thing. I'm not suffering from bugs that are even remotely game breaking. I'm getting good performance in the game that is improving. So why should I hate a game that is effectively working as intended for me? You seem overly driven to get me to hate it for no good reason.
You can go on and try to make big deals out of spilled milk bugs of WoW that apparently weren't systemic or gamebreaking enough to keep people from playing it, but fact of the matter is you weren't using Vanish and losing levels, didn't have to tweak your .ini settings for Arcane Missile to work, or you Charge and lose items during your claymation animations; it isn't comparable.
In terms of number of bugs, and severity of bugs, Vanguard is far worse. World of Warcraft HAVING bugs is not the same. No two games with bugs in them are equal. Gothic 3 and Oblivion were not of the same quality at release just because both contained bugs. That's a point you're refusing to get because WITHOUT getting it you're able to insist World of Warcraft and Vanguard should be viewed exactly the same and judged the same.
No, you're going out on a limb further and totally disavowing the existence of Vanguard's bugs simply because you haven't experienced them. Yet you'll go and dredge up old WoW patch notes from a time you probably didn't even play, from classes you certainly hadn't played all of concurrently? Right, no scent of a biased agenda there.
And that's exactly what this is, an agenda to not speak constructively on the state of two games during comparable time periods and thusly raise the bar of what you want in a quality product; no, it's realizing inside that Vanguard has lowered the bar, and for its launch to be seen as legitimately 'good', everything else preceding it must have sucked.
Ok then, you go on and believe Vanguard was good enough to launch just because Sigil told you to. And the bugs that you experience everyday don't matter just because Sigil avows their existence. You were gonna do that anyway, but I get the feeling being on these boards will continue to be quite miserable for you if you're taking it upon yourself to disavow the existence of any problems in Vanguard while perpetuating the claim that over 8 million people are totally clueless than they're playing a game just as buggy today as Vanguard is.
May you succeed!
Fallacy. Moving the goalposts.
Besides, the worst bug I ran into in VG was a NPC corpse dissappearing. I got stuck 3 times total in the game, and /stuck took care of that.
I already said WoW was more polished, but it wasn't complete. A similar bug to attack bonus one I listed existed in VG, but they already fixed it.
I'm not disavowing the problems VG has, nor did I ever say it was "good enough for launch", even the CEO of Sigil doesn't claim that.
Here's the thing. I'm not suffering from bugs that are even remotely game breaking. I'm getting good performance in the game that is improving. So why should I hate a game that is effectively working as intended for me? You seem overly driven to get me to hate it for no good reason.
Nope, just interested in the facts. If it's a fact that you aren't experiencing very many bugs, I obviously wouldn't see why you should hate the bugs unless you're sympathizing with others, as I do. I wish I weren't experiencing gamebreaking bugs, but I do. It is a fact that Vanguard is very much a bug-filled game, and it seems we agree its buggy to a level exceeding where WoW was during it's own launch. Thusly a product not 'good enough' to launch according to new standards set in the industry if you fancy those, but better yet your own standards about a game. If yours are met, I'm not trying to convince you of otherwise...just refuting any claims that others like me are nothing more than whiners who should treat Vanguard the same as WoW or any other MMO just because Sigil insinuates we should.
Also, you might've missed exactly what sparked all the conversation in this thread in the first place:
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was recently profiled in the New York Times with some interesting quotes from Sigil co-founder and executive producer Brad McQuaid. "People ask me, 'are you launching a finished game?' and the answer is 'no, we're launching a game that is good enough to launch, but it's not finished.' And that's why I love these games: because they should never be finished."
Originally posted by Fariic 2 months and you've never blinked backwards or stayed in the same spot? Try blinking over texture changes. My mage is 2 years old and blink has been broke since I created him. You should take a look at the mage forums to. And when you have to complete overhaul every class in the game then you can't call it polished. WoW spent 2 years completely redoing each class.
TBH, im glad Blizzard do overhauls, leaving the classes as they were, would have killed interest in this game for me, each time I come back im delighted with the interesting changes and discovering how to play my class... Fortunately, Blizzard is careful with their nerf stick.
Hahahahaha careful with their neft stick. Ah man good one.
If your system is good as mine or better.. YOU SHOULD HAVE NO problem running VG what so ever. So go away and check what crap you have running on your own machines.
Nice word "SHOULD". Means there are no guarantees. It might run, then again, it might not.
However, people ARE taking your advice and going away.
Sooner or later you will understand why you NEVER tell your customers or prospective customers to go
away. They might just take your advice and tell their friends.
Hope you enjoy playing a game where grouping is required and where there is no one to group with.
Fallacy. Moving the goalposts. Besides, the worst bug I ran into in VG was a NPC corpse dissappearing. I got stuck 3 times total in the game, and /stuck took care of that. I already said WoW was more polished, but it wasn't complete. A similar bug to attack bonus one I listed existed in VG, but they already fixed it. I'm not disavowing the problems VG has, nor did I ever say it was "good enough for launch", even the CEO of Sigil doesn't claim that. Here's the thing. I'm not suffering from bugs that are even remotely game breaking. I'm getting good performance in the game that is improving. So why should I hate a game that is effectively working as intended for me? You seem overly driven to get me to hate it for no good reason.
If you are one of the fortunate few having NO issues with VG, kudos to you. However, you can't be so blind as to see the tidal wave of legitimate gripes and complaints about the current state of VG.
Keep one thing in mind. Just because the state of the game is something you are willing to endure does NOT mean the next person who walks into a store and purchases VG will feel the same way. The problem (for you) is that since VG is a group oriented game, every single person who quits or doesn't log back in due to game-stopping or plain irritating bugs is going to be one less person you can group with. If things don't change, it's going to be a pretty lonely place for the people who stick it out.
Nice word "SHOULD". Means there are no guarantees. It might run, then again, it might not.
However, people ARE taking your advice and going away.
Sooner or later you will understand why you NEVER tell your customers or prospective customers to go
away. They might just take your advice and tell their friends.
Hope you enjoy playing a game where grouping is required and where there is no one to group with.
In fact I am seeing that already. Zones that used to be heavily populated no longer are, getting harder to get groups in many areas for many of the quests. I see in our guild that while not many have actually quit, quite a few are logging on a lot less (inlcluding me).
But I figure since so many of the fans want me to go away, maybe I will.
Well lets see Vanguard is extremely buggy and has been out for less then 1 month. Wow is extremely buggy and has been out for over 2 years. So I guess the only way we can compare is to see how Vanguard looks 2 years from now.
For all of the people saying they never experienced WoW's bugs and saying they aren't a big deal, then neither are Vanguard's. There are plenty of people playing who don't have their play experience interupted by either games bugs.
But to say WoW doesnt have any game breaking bugs still in the game. That were in the game from Day 1. Is just a flat out liar and true fanboy. Rogues were broken at release, are still broken, and will probably always be broken. Blizzard just can't seem to get their vanish to work correctly. Also, the loot bug is still in this game 2 years later. Even after their first expansion was released.
Il ltry to clarify this as clearly as possible. WoW has bugs, Vanguard has bugs.
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Hummm....bugs in beta? really....I would have never thought that was possible. Wow. I may have to rethink my whole idea about beta's and what they are for....geee...
OK now you are comparing vanguard (which just came out and is only weeks old) to Wow ...(that you just started playing a year ago) ...which has been out longer and has become a stable platform? Is that fair? EQ2 was pretty much unstable when it launched ...server issues .... Wow as well....EQ2 had this nasty habit of dropping me out of the planet cause of more reason then one .... Wow just recently had a black screen issue with me and downloading last patch issue ... which took a bit to resolve.
I am comparing 1 year of WoW since release and 1 month of Vanguard since release. WoW in 1 year was about 5-10 times less buggy then Vanguard in 1 month. U misread my sentence, Im not comparing WoW since 1 year ago. Im comparing WoW since It released, and after playing it for a whole year - with playing Vanguard since release for a few weeks.
Mind you, the amount of bugs are NOT unique bugs, but rather separate occasions of bugs interfering my gameplay. Some times its easy to fix, leaving group, doing /stuck yes or something else. But sometimes it is more severe, forcing me to relog, losing items or crashing to desktop.
There is NO doubt that WoW WAS much more polished then Vanguard at release. There is no doubt that Vanguard has much more bugs and they are more severe then WoW. But I still play Vanguard. Im a big less enthusiastic about it, but I still enjoy it. Why? Becuase regardless of all the bugs, the deep gameplay, various activities give me enough enjoyment to overcompensate frustration from the bugs... so far.
Housing, crafting, boats, unwired flying mounts, no inviso server barriers, no true zones (though it still has zones), interesting combat abilities, more classes to play with, large land masses... that is keeping me interested.
Same here, except for housing, too expencive for me yet.
I dont trust Sigil and Brad anymore, but I still like Vanguard.
Dont trust any of them but they run a bizz and they do have to make sound judgements ... If they make a mistake its on them. I hope they take the correct path ... that is all you should worry about.
Yes, they have a business, but they arent supporting it as they should. CS is almost non existant. Petitions are unanswered for 2 days (still arent, might take more days before they get answered). There is no official forum, so we have to rely on 3rd party forums and player help. I dont worry much about bugs as they are, what I worry about is that they wont be fixed any time soon and theres no direct way to communicate with the development team.
Sorry for the mis-read.
Though do try silky Venom forums ... or stratics the Dev do write there quite often. SOE customer support is something to be desired but they also have an official forum for technical problems.
The Devs did say something about petitions on Silky venom ... that they are swamped ... so i can see that happening ... EQ1 i waited two entire days to get out of a freaking wall ... though at times i was lucky and got one right away. Never petitioned in Vanugard so i dont know how they react.
Tweaking the .ini file isn't as big a deal as most want others to believe.
In the .ini file are options that are not yet available through the UI. Things like Vsync, triple buffering and such. These are much the same EXACT options that weren't available when WoW was released. If your system is having trouble running VG then tweaking the .ini file MIGHT help. The magority of performance problems aren't VG's fault, it's the systems trying to run the game.
I do believe Mcquaid explains why the game is so demanding on the system. It's not that VG has state of the art graphics. It's because VG has to load gigs of information onto your system and process it as well as render it at any given time. The world is HUGE and seemless and that means that slower systems will feel the brunt of it.
VG isn't the only game that is demanding on your PC. Wanna play the latest rainbow six game? Guess what? You have to have a vid card that supports shader model 3.0. Know how many cards support that? One, and it's $400 on the low end.
It's your responcibility to upgrade your system if you want to continue playing the lastest games; not the job of software developers to ensure that the game runs on every system. You can disagree with that FACT all you want, but it's an undeniable TRUTH about PC gaming. Upgrading is REQUIRED to keep up with the games. Just as the consoles upgrade so to must your PC.
If VG was broken then no one would be able to play it. It's no more broken then WoW was at release or Lineage 2 or EQ2. If the game runs for the magority of people playing it then it wouldn't be broken, and that's were VG is at. The few people that post about the game being broken here represent the smallest fraction of people who experience VG. Unfortunetly you people are also some of the most vocal, and some of you the most unreasonable even.
Sometimes reality sets in and Capitol lenders start to demand a return for thier investments. Sometimes those lenders aren't very flexible and may not be willing to wait. Sometimes you have to release or find another solution to making your lenders happy. In a lot of cases when it comes to games and dept the IP will get sold off and someone else will take over production, or eventualy sell themselves or just squash the IP altogether.
At least Mcquaid was man enough to say the game was released early because money ran out.
And he's right. No mmo is ever finished. They all Nerf, buff, bug fix, add content, and when they stop doing most of these things it ususally means the game is dead.
Nice word "SHOULD". Means there are no guarantees. It might run, then again, it might not.
However, people ARE taking your advice and going away.
Sooner or later you will understand why you NEVER tell your customers or prospective customers to go
away. They might just take your advice and tell their friends.
Hope you enjoy playing a game where grouping is required and where there is no one to group with.
In fact I am seeing that already. Zones that used to be heavily populated no longer are, getting harder to get groups in many areas for many of the quests. I see in our guild that while not many have actually quit, quite a few are logging on a lot less (inlcluding me).
Again I can tell what server you are on ... but yesterday my wife made a character and all the servers were med to heavy....then i should admit that i dont really know what that means .... could mean 20 people.
Town of three rivers are always busy, spider cave has spurts of activity, renton keep has some spurts of activity ... have an alt on Qalia and in the chunk i was in had about 40 people in it...
As you can tell I cant be everywhere at once so i dont know what the rest of the server world looks like ... but from what i have seen ... its got people in it. There is a town in Qalia that was quiet but walking up the road a bit i discovered another town in heavy use ...
So I dont know what problems you are having grouping ... I have no such problems. The only problem i have is that some people are just doing other things and dont have time to help me out ... so i might go some time without a group but i after awile i get some people and off i go.
Ive been in alot of pick up groups just helping other people out ... with the nice "share quest" option it turns out all good.
I guess i could be just crazy and just be dreaming.
But I figure since so many of the fans want me to go away, maybe I will.
Oh please dont cry.
Join a guild or get a group of friends to hang out with ... I usually put people in my friends list and see if they need any help for the day ... usually they are near the same level and in the same area i am in.
Comments
Here is a partial list of the bugs from release that I promised.
These are from the patch notes at worldofwar.net and official site.
Using the spell Blink could cause you to fall through the world
If you clicked on an item while disenchanting another, you would lose the item.
Group members of one group could remove members from another
Database Queries (for items or mobs) could crash to desktop
Players being locked out of their guilds isntances
NPC's getting stuck in evade mode
Onyxia would teleport from one point to another (causing you to lose target)
Group loot permission bug that was telling players they did not have permission to loot.
Scrolling through the auction house window causing the game to freeze
Warriors charge would path you through an entire dungeon
Several zones like Azshara, Loch Modan, Ashenvale had many places where you could become stuck
Alt tabbing could screw up your character graphics
As of patch 1.4.1 they were still working on disconnect issues (this patch was released 5/4/05)
If a caster went LD while casting, other players nearby would lock up
Crashing if a chat channel had too many members in it
If you died in lava, your release spirit box would pop up
LUA errors when linking items into chat
In large fights, using projectiles (spells or or otherwise) could cause you to crash
If you used an instant cast ability while jumping you could get stuck
German client crashes weren't fixed until 1.8.3
Still workin on disconnect issues as of patch 1.9.3
Warriors charge could desync you from server if you charged from water to land
(translation: you weren't actually on the server anymore but still able to play)
Client crashes when you recieved some friendslist notifications
Crashing when you create a guild tabard while shapeshifted/in-costume
Lockup bugs from being near ships, zepplins or the tram
I am not sure about those bugs...not saying they dont exist, but I havent experienced them in my play time. I played WoW for over a year (on and off) and Ive only seen a handfull of bugs, Arcane missile bug, Evade monster bug, loot bug. With vanguard, im beginning to experience many more bugs in the first few weeks. At first, I didnt seem to experience many bugs, but as soon as i reached level 5 and started wondering in different areas I started experiencing those bugs people keep talking about. Judging from the number of people complaining, ive concluded that those bugs are not an exception, but rather common.This list shows at least one instance of everything you just said. I took that from WoW's own patch notes.
I can still deal with most of those bugs, if they dont occur too often, and they dont. During 3-4 hours of gameplay ill have my group bugged once or twice (easy to fix), ill crash to desktop maybe once, and maybe fall through the ground... its annoying, but im handling it so far. What im not handling too well is lack of support and development. I petitioned a bug yesterday (lost some items after crashing to desktop) but 1 day later - no reply. A friend of mine petitioned bugged floating island (earth island) 2 days ago... petition is still open. This lack of support (combined with no official forums to complain/report/suggest bugs) is troubling me. It feels like Sigil doesnt care about their customers. And customers like to be cared about. And on occasion pampered.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
This is a joke right? Guess you never played a rogue. How many times did they try to fix vanish? I lost count, and as of BC, it still didn't work. Hasn't worked since day one. Then there are fun "working as intended" bugs, like pets seeing through stealth from 900 miles away. Oh, and last time they tried to fix vanish, they made this bug applied to it. Not much more is frustrating then vanishing, having a pet hit, you, prep, vanish, and then having the pet hit you AGAIN. Considering how important stealth is to that class, you would think they could get that skill right, but more then 2 years later its still broken.
We had a bug with our special attacks that took 6 months for them to fix. Then when they actually fixed it, they nerfed the class. Paladins had a skill bugged long enough for me to get to 56 before they finally fixed it, and it was a bug that broke the class.
If you want less invasive bugs you can always go with the "name the size of ironforge" bug.
Then there is the bug where you get stuck on the griffin.
There are still the same pathing exploits in ZF and DM that people have used since the beginning.
At least with BC they finally corrected the 18 month old bug where the bloodelves had no animation.
Last I checked the horde quest just inside ashenvale is STILL bugged. Everytime I tried to do that thing I had to do it 2-3 times to complete it.
In terms of number of bugs, and severity of bugs, Vanguard is far worse. World of Warcraft HAVING bugs is not the same. No two games with bugs in them are equal. Gothic 3 and Oblivion were not of the same quality at release just because both contained bugs. That's a point you're refusing to get because WITHOUT getting it you're able to insist World of Warcraft and Vanguard should be viewed exactly the same and judged the same.
No, you're going out on a limb further and totally disavowing the existence of Vanguard's bugs simply because you haven't experienced them. Yet you'll go and dredge up old WoW patch notes from a time you probably didn't even play, from classes you certainly hadn't played all of concurrently? Right, no scent of a biased agenda there.
And that's exactly what this is, an agenda to not speak constructively on the state of two games during comparable time periods and thusly raise the bar of what you want in a quality product; no, it's realizing inside that Vanguard has lowered the bar, and for its launch to be seen as legitimately 'good', everything else preceding it must have sucked.
Ok then, you go on and believe Vanguard was good enough to launch just because Sigil told you to. And the bugs that you experience everyday don't matter just because Sigil avows their existence. You were gonna do that anyway, but I get the feeling being on these boards will continue to be quite miserable for you if you're taking it upon yourself to disavow the existence of any problems in Vanguard while perpetuating the claim that over 8 million people are totally clueless than they're playing a game just as buggy today as Vanguard is.
May you succeed!
Excellent response!
And Mr McQuaid spewing his rhetoric this late in the day also makes me a little sour. WoW at launch was a (mostly) a victim of it's own success. Vanguard has fallen short (in my own expectations) to the over-bloated egos of it's developers.
For all of the people saying they never experienced WoW's bugs and saying they aren't a big deal, then neither are Vanguard's. There are plenty of people playing who don't have their play experience interupted by either games bugs.
But to say WoW doesnt have any game breaking bugs still in the game. That were in the game from Day 1. Is just a flat out liar and true fanboy. Rogues were broken at release, are still broken, and will probably always be broken. Blizzard just can't seem to get their vanish to work correctly. Also, the loot bug is still in this game 2 years later. Even after their first expansion was released.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Vanguard I hear has some MAJOR bugs as well. I haven't expierenced them yet. I have seen the minor bugs of a mob dissapearing and then you have to back up for it to reappear. Yes it is really annoying. Currently im not playing either WoW or Vanguard. I am playing the Beta for LOTRO. Which I think will show both games how to properly launch. LOTRO in its Beta 2 is a more polished game with less bugs then Vanguard and WoW.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
That's one of my biggest gripes with this board. The downright, adamant refusal to admit that Vanguard is a broken, buggy game which has broken the damn bar in half.
WoW had plenty of bugs, and it still has bugs. HOWEVER, with WoW:
- I did NOT have to use tweaks to get the game to perform above 10 FPS.
- I never had problems with equipment disappearing, or being re-equipped elsewhere
- No one I knew was banned for crafting too much and being a suspected gold-seller (ridiculous!)
- Levels weren't randomly reset
- I didn't log-in to find myself on a completely different continent then where I last logged out
- The game played better in beta than Vanguard does now, 3 weeks after release.
- Even though WoW had monotonous quests, at LEAST it went from "Kill 10 boars" to "Kill 10 Orcs". With Vanguard, you're killing the same damn thing, over and over and over.
Sepher, you said it best. Far too many users here have a damned agenda. I know many have labeled me as an anti-Vanguard person, which I might be currently, but not because I'm just bored and feel like hating to hate. This game warrants the hatred by it's lack of performance and the sheer ineptitude of the Sigil development team.
Perhaps I wouldn't be so negative if the game had some positive aspects. Perhaps I wouldn't condescend the people calling this "the best MMORPG out there" if it wasn't poorly beta tested and released prematurely with game-breaking bugs. Perhaps if some of the core promised elements had been delivered at release, such as functional player boats, or the Diplomat classes, I wouldn't be so critical about McQuaid and his empty promises. Finally, perhaps if Sigil fixed performance issues and critical bugs before they started to swing the nerf bat, I'd be more sympathetic towards the glaring problems noticed in this game. Perhaps if the community's attitude wasn't "I don't care if it's broken and buggy, I'm having fun and I'll pay for it" wasn't sending the message to MMO devs everywhere that it's ok to release incomplete products, than I'd be more open-minded. However, I can't do that, not until Sigil and Mcquaid show me some dramatic improvements.
Oh, and the first person who points out "But Cymdai, they've been working around the clock fixing problems!"
Well, here's a little fact. They wouldn't have been in this situation in the first place if they had managed their prolonged beta stages more effectively, and utilized their time more appropriately over the last year and some change. So I don't really care about their lack of sleep; this is a result of their own incompetence, and now they're working triple-time to compensate for their own inadequacies.
I had hoped Vanguard would become more stable and more promising once it released, but in my opinion, it's gotten worse. Sigil lost my faith awhile ago, and if they want it back, they'll have to EARN it through gameplay advancement and improvements, not on what will be there, and what they hope to incorporate, but what IS presented to me.
I wish people would stop trying to tear down other games, especially WoW, to try and justify the lack of perfomance in Vanguard. Vanguard and WoW are on two completely different levels, period.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Mind you, the amount of bugs are NOT unique bugs, but rather separate occasions of bugs interfering my gameplay. Some times its easy to fix, leaving group, doing /stuck yes or something else. But sometimes it is more severe, forcing me to relog, losing items or crashing to desktop.
There is NO doubt that WoW WAS much more polished then Vanguard at release. There is no doubt that Vanguard has much more bugs and they are more severe then WoW. But I still play Vanguard. Im a big less enthusiastic about it, but I still enjoy it. Why? Becuase regardless of all the bugs, the deep gameplay, various activities give me enough enjoyment to overcompensate frustration from the bugs... so far.
I dont trust Sigil and Brad anymore, but I still like Vanguard.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
I could careless if vanguard has bugs myself every game ive ever played had bugs even World of warcraft and thier bugs. They where far more game breakng for me than anything ive seen in vanguard ,I played a grand Marshal rogue so i lived with bugs the whole time i played wow
My hats off to brad Mcquaid all pay sigil double the monthly fee before i play any other mmo out there even if they offered them free The game is f---ing sweet .
In simple terms as this man stated ... we all have our bugs ... and depending on our ability to enjoy the game often live with these bugs...as the man stated here as well ... there are bugs in Wow ... regardless of what many say here ... some major that cause graphical errors to class ability and item bugs ... and Wow has been out for a bit .... (just check the Wow technical service forum) ... I am not saying that Wow is not a great game ... to each is own ...
Yes we compare cames because we need benchmarks ... something to base from ... Wow happens to be a good choice because it has its share of blind unseeing cult followers as well ... so with that i like to point out things that are similar ..
I am saying that yes...vanguard has bugs...yes...vanguard needs patching...yes...give vanguard its dues and chance to shine with the people that love it or some that have yet to love it... People with their expert coding experience ...MMO experience come on here and often state that "the devs dont know what they are doing" "devs are idiots" "WTF, how come they cant fix that yesterday" ...have no idea of the complex nature of these games...how they work ...or never even seen DOS
Its quite strange.
These developers put in more time into these games then some major movies ... these games (yes even Wow) are a work of art worthy of our praise and attention. (not Dark and Light) If you dont want these kinda of issues ... even in single player PC games ... go play an xbox 360 ...well they get patched too dont they?
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Hummm....bugs in beta? really....I would have never thought that was possible. Wow. I may have to rethink my whole idea about beta's and what they are for....geee...
OK now you are comparing vanguard (which just came out and is only weeks old) to Wow ...(that you just started playing a year ago) ...which has been out longer and has become a stable platform? Is that fair? EQ2 was pretty much unstable when it launched ...server issues .... Wow as well....EQ2 had this nasty habit of dropping me out of the planet cause of more reason then one .... Wow just recently had a black screen issue with me and downloading last patch issue ... which took a bit to resolve.
Mind you, the amount of bugs are NOT unique bugs, but rather separate occasions of bugs interfering my gameplay. Some times its easy to fix, leaving group, doing /stuck yes or something else. But sometimes it is more severe, forcing me to relog, losing items or crashing to desktop.
There is NO doubt that WoW WAS much more polished then Vanguard at release. There is no doubt that Vanguard has much more bugs and they are more severe then WoW. But I still play Vanguard. Im a big less enthusiastic about it, but I still enjoy it. Why? Becuase regardless of all the bugs, the deep gameplay, various activities give me enough enjoyment to overcompensate frustration from the bugs... so far.
Housing, crafting, boats, unwired flying mounts, no inviso server barriers, no true zones (though it still has zones), interesting combat abilities, more classes to play with, large land masses... that is keeping me interested.
I dont trust Sigil and Brad anymore, but I still like Vanguard.
Dont trust any of them but they run a bizz and they do have to make sound judgements ... If they make a mistake its on them. I hope they take the correct path ... that is all you should worry about.
The problem is one of pervasiveness. If only a relative few people experience a problem and its
impact is not that severe, it can be tolerated. If the impact is severe, all bets are off. Who decides
the impact ? The customer.
Many of the bugs in WoW that have been described earlier were not felt by a significant percentage of the
WoW population. If you did not play a rogue, mage, or warlock under the right conditions, you did not have the
problems. Contrast that with Vanguard where you could lose levels and items regardless of class, you
could crash to desktop regardless of class, you could experience tremendous lag regardless of class.
The bottom line is that no one expects a perfect game. WoW was certainly not perfect. However, WoW
was good enough to attract and hold the largest player base that has ever been held for almost two
years. Vanguard was not good enough to hold on to its most devoted fans for the trial month.
Enough said.
---
And they still aren't.
I don't play WoW or CoH but apparently you do. So name some areas that aren't finished. As far as tweaks and refinements go no MMO is ever finished but we have a different situation with VG. It's not finished. Last I checked there are areas that are in complete lockdown. The areas that are open are so full of glitches and bugs that it's almost frustrating to play. I've never read about WoW or CoH having the problems that VG has. No, I'm not a "hater". I've been playing since Jan. 26 but in all likelihood I won't continue playing when my "free" month runs out on March 1. VG could be a very good game. Right now it isn't and all we have right now is the promise from Brad/Sigil that things will get better. I take that promise with a grain of salt because a company that releases a product unfinished for monetary reasons never seems to be able to come up with the money to fix it. I find it very interesting that there were "offiicial" forums when they wanted everyone to buy but as soon as the game went live the forums were shut down. Reminds me of some type of scam artist type thing.
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Hummm....bugs in beta? really....I would have never thought that was possible. Wow. I may have to rethink my whole idea about beta's and what they are for....geee...
OK now you are comparing vanguard (which just came out and is only weeks old) to Wow ...(that you just started playing a year ago) ...which has been out longer and has become a stable platform? Is that fair? EQ2 was pretty much unstable when it launched ...server issues .... Wow as well....EQ2 had this nasty habit of dropping me out of the planet cause of more reason then one .... Wow just recently had a black screen issue with me and downloading last patch issue ... which took a bit to resolve.
I am comparing 1 year of WoW since release and 1 month of Vanguard since release. WoW in 1 year was about 5-10 times less buggy then Vanguard in 1 month. U misread my sentence, Im not comparing WoW since 1 year ago. Im comparing WoW since It released, and after playing it for a whole year - with playing Vanguard since release for a few weeks.
Same here, except for housing, too expencive for me yet. Yes, they have a business, but they arent supporting it as they should. CS is almost non existant. Petitions are unanswered for 2 days (still arent, might take more days before they get answered). There is no official forum, so we have to rely on 3rd party forums and player help. I dont worry much about bugs as they are, what I worry about is that they wont be fixed any time soon and theres no direct way to communicate with the development team.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Fallacy. Moving the goalposts.
Besides, the worst bug I ran into in VG was a NPC corpse dissappearing. I got stuck 3 times total in the game, and /stuck took care of that.
I already said WoW was more polished, but it wasn't complete. A similar bug to attack bonus one I listed existed in VG, but they already fixed it.
I'm not disavowing the problems VG has, nor did I ever say it was "good enough for launch", even the CEO of Sigil doesn't claim that.
Here's the thing. I'm not suffering from bugs that are even remotely game breaking. I'm getting good performance in the game that is improving. So why should I hate a game that is effectively working as intended for me? You seem overly driven to get me to hate it for no good reason.
Fallacy. Moving the goalposts.
Besides, the worst bug I ran into in VG was a NPC corpse dissappearing. I got stuck 3 times total in the game, and /stuck took care of that.
I already said WoW was more polished, but it wasn't complete. A similar bug to attack bonus one I listed existed in VG, but they already fixed it.
I'm not disavowing the problems VG has, nor did I ever say it was "good enough for launch", even the CEO of Sigil doesn't claim that.
Here's the thing. I'm not suffering from bugs that are even remotely game breaking. I'm getting good performance in the game that is improving. So why should I hate a game that is effectively working as intended for me? You seem overly driven to get me to hate it for no good reason.
Nope, just interested in the facts. If it's a fact that you aren't experiencing very many bugs, I obviously wouldn't see why you should hate the bugs unless you're sympathizing with others, as I do. I wish I weren't experiencing gamebreaking bugs, but I do. It is a fact that Vanguard is very much a bug-filled game, and it seems we agree its buggy to a level exceeding where WoW was during it's own launch. Thusly a product not 'good enough' to launch according to new standards set in the industry if you fancy those, but better yet your own standards about a game. If yours are met, I'm not trying to convince you of otherwise...just refuting any claims that others like me are nothing more than whiners who should treat Vanguard the same as WoW or any other MMO just because Sigil insinuates we should.Also, you might've missed exactly what sparked all the conversation in this thread in the first place:
Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was recently profiled in the New York Times with some interesting quotes from Sigil co-founder and executive producer Brad McQuaid. "People ask me, 'are you launching a finished game?' and the answer is 'no, we're launching a game that is good enough to launch, but it's not finished.' And that's why I love these games: because they should never be finished."
So yeah, the CEO did claim that.
Hahahahaha careful with their neft stick. Ah man good one.
However, people ARE taking your advice and going away.
Sooner or later you will understand why you NEVER tell your customers or prospective customers to go
away. They might just take your advice and tell their friends.
Hope you enjoy playing a game where grouping is required and where there is no one to group with.
Keep one thing in mind. Just because the state of the game is something you are willing to endure does NOT mean the next person who walks into a store and purchases VG will feel the same way. The problem (for you) is that since VG is a group oriented game, every single person who quits or doesn't log back in due to game-stopping or plain irritating bugs is going to be one less person you can group with. If things don't change, it's going to be a pretty lonely place for the people who stick it out.
In fact I am seeing that already. Zones that used to be heavily populated no longer are, getting harder to get groups in many areas for many of the quests. I see in our guild that while not many have actually quit, quite a few are logging on a lot less (inlcluding me).
But I figure since so many of the fans want me to go away, maybe I will.
When playing WoW for over a year(starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 5-10.
When playing Vanguard for a few weeks (starting with beta AND release), I experienced a total amount of bugs: around 30-40.
Hummm....bugs in beta? really....I would have never thought that was possible. Wow. I may have to rethink my whole idea about beta's and what they are for....geee...
OK now you are comparing vanguard (which just came out and is only weeks old) to Wow ...(that you just started playing a year ago) ...which has been out longer and has become a stable platform? Is that fair? EQ2 was pretty much unstable when it launched ...server issues .... Wow as well....EQ2 had this nasty habit of dropping me out of the planet cause of more reason then one .... Wow just recently had a black screen issue with me and downloading last patch issue ... which took a bit to resolve.
I am comparing 1 year of WoW since release and 1 month of Vanguard since release. WoW in 1 year was about 5-10 times less buggy then Vanguard in 1 month. U misread my sentence, Im not comparing WoW since 1 year ago. Im comparing WoW since It released, and after playing it for a whole year - with playing Vanguard since release for a few weeks.
Same here, except for housing, too expencive for me yet. Yes, they have a business, but they arent supporting it as they should. CS is almost non existant. Petitions are unanswered for 2 days (still arent, might take more days before they get answered). There is no official forum, so we have to rely on 3rd party forums and player help. I dont worry much about bugs as they are, what I worry about is that they wont be fixed any time soon and theres no direct way to communicate with the development team.
Sorry for the mis-read.
Though do try silky Venom forums ... or stratics the Dev do write there quite often. SOE customer support is something to be desired but they also have an official forum for technical problems.
The Devs did say something about petitions on Silky venom ... that they are swamped ... so i can see that happening ... EQ1 i waited two entire days to get out of a freaking wall ... though at times i was lucky and got one right away. Never petitioned in Vanugard so i dont know how they react.
Tweaking the .ini file isn't as big a deal as most want others to believe.
In the .ini file are options that are not yet available through the UI. Things like Vsync, triple buffering and such. These are much the same EXACT options that weren't available when WoW was released. If your system is having trouble running VG then tweaking the .ini file MIGHT help. The magority of performance problems aren't VG's fault, it's the systems trying to run the game.
I do believe Mcquaid explains why the game is so demanding on the system. It's not that VG has state of the art graphics. It's because VG has to load gigs of information onto your system and process it as well as render it at any given time. The world is HUGE and seemless and that means that slower systems will feel the brunt of it.
VG isn't the only game that is demanding on your PC. Wanna play the latest rainbow six game? Guess what? You have to have a vid card that supports shader model 3.0. Know how many cards support that? One, and it's $400 on the low end.
It's your responcibility to upgrade your system if you want to continue playing the lastest games; not the job of software developers to ensure that the game runs on every system. You can disagree with that FACT all you want, but it's an undeniable TRUTH about PC gaming. Upgrading is REQUIRED to keep up with the games. Just as the consoles upgrade so to must your PC.
If VG was broken then no one would be able to play it. It's no more broken then WoW was at release or Lineage 2 or EQ2. If the game runs for the magority of people playing it then it wouldn't be broken, and that's were VG is at. The few people that post about the game being broken here represent the smallest fraction of people who experience VG. Unfortunetly you people are also some of the most vocal, and some of you the most unreasonable even.
Sometimes reality sets in and Capitol lenders start to demand a return for thier investments. Sometimes those lenders aren't very flexible and may not be willing to wait. Sometimes you have to release or find another solution to making your lenders happy. In a lot of cases when it comes to games and dept the IP will get sold off and someone else will take over production, or eventualy sell themselves or just squash the IP altogether.
At least Mcquaid was man enough to say the game was released early because money ran out.
And he's right. No mmo is ever finished. They all Nerf, buff, bug fix, add content, and when they stop doing most of these things it ususally means the game is dead.
In fact I am seeing that already. Zones that used to be heavily populated no longer are, getting harder to get groups in many areas for many of the quests. I see in our guild that while not many have actually quit, quite a few are logging on a lot less (inlcluding me).
Again I can tell what server you are on ... but yesterday my wife made a character and all the servers were med to heavy....then i should admit that i dont really know what that means .... could mean 20 people.
Town of three rivers are always busy, spider cave has spurts of activity, renton keep has some spurts of activity ... have an alt on Qalia and in the chunk i was in had about 40 people in it...
As you can tell I cant be everywhere at once so i dont know what the rest of the server world looks like ... but from what i have seen ... its got people in it. There is a town in Qalia that was quiet but walking up the road a bit i discovered another town in heavy use ...
So I dont know what problems you are having grouping ... I have no such problems. The only problem i have is that some people are just doing other things and dont have time to help me out ... so i might go some time without a group but i after awile i get some people and off i go.
Ive been in alot of pick up groups just helping other people out ... with the nice "share quest" option it turns out all good.
I guess i could be just crazy and just be dreaming.
But I figure since so many of the fans want me to go away, maybe I will.
Oh please dont cry.
Join a guild or get a group of friends to hang out with ... I usually put people in my friends list and see if they need any help for the day ... usually they are near the same level and in the same area i am in.