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How Long Before Vanguard Hits 500k Subs?

TraelinTraelin Member Posts: 109
in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

I'm just curious to see what you folks think about this...obviously the more people playing, the better the chances of VG becoming more polished and stable.  Of course other problems arise with more people, but I'm not really concerned with addressing them.  So what do you all think?

 

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Comments

  • BalisidarBalisidar Member Posts: 164

    Simple. The answer is never.  This is a niche game and will appeal to some but not a majority. The bad press this game has gotten upon it's release will also scare a lot of people away.

    Hopefully, it will be profitable.  The more games that hit Woody's "Game Zapper" the worse off we ALL are.

     

    Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.

  • mehhemmehhem Member Posts: 653
    Its not a niche game.  Who would you think it would be a niche for?  Hardcore people?  Its not hard to solo.  Players that only want to fight?  What about the crafting system or diplomacy?  People that only want to craft?  Sure why not, you don't have to fight. 



    As far as I'm concerned, you don't have a clue what the game is about Balisidar.  You haven't played, all you do is flame.
  • matraquematraque Member Posts: 1,431
    Originally posted by Balisidar


    Simple. The answer is never.  This is a niche game and will appeal to some but not a majority. The bad press this game has gotten upon it's release will also scare a lot of people away.
    Hopefully, it will be profitable.  The more games that hit Woody's "Game Zapper" the worse off we ALL are.
     
    Show me the bad press please.  I'm dying to read it.  What i have seen is fair reviews or totally biased reviews.



    Thanks :)

    eqnext.wikia.com

  • TraelinTraelin Member Posts: 109
    Please guys (and girls), try to keep it aboveboard as much as possible. I really want to see the results of this poll. :)
  • Veiled_lightVeiled_light Member UncommonPosts: 855

    I think he's right it's a very niche game.... most people wont stand to play a game will sooo many faults and bugs + the graphics are very generic and none of my friends think it looks good. The mediocre reviews also wont help it and theres no attension on the game or any adverts....

    I say the game will max out at 100k subs and if things don't improve it'll drop down to 50k and SOE will stop funding like Planetside.

  • parmenionparmenion Member Posts: 260
    All the flames & hate have been said about every MMO release to date to varying degrees. VG may not be for everyone, but once the big bugs are fixed it will hold steady numbers of the people who want something like VG, lets face it there are no new options coming for them. First VG expansion will probably pick up alot of numbers after people have had a chance to be underwhelmed by a few week's bland uninspired gameplay wrapped in a shiny cover from upcoming alternatives.
  • matraquematraque Member Posts: 1,431
    Originally posted by Veiled_light


    I think he's right it's a very niche game.... most people wont stand to play a game will sooo many faults and bugs + the graphics are very generic and none of my friends think it looks good. The mediocre reviews also wont help it and theres no attension on the game or any adverts....
    I say the game will max out at 100k subs and if things don't improve it'll drop down to 50k and SOE will stop funding like Planetside.
    Show me the reviews!!!!!111!!!

    eqnext.wikia.com

  • HorusgirlHorusgirl Member Posts: 120
    This must be the most ironic poll I have seen in a while

    Good job!


    image
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."
    ~J. Krishnamurti
  • snipergsniperg Member Posts: 863
    Well i have voted that it may reach that many subs after more than a year.

    Reason for that is that i believe it made a lukewarm impression at it's start and the fame it has in general has many contrasts since most people either tell the worst about it or the best. So in my opinion i doubt new subscribers will come flocking since they most likely wait till the game settles to either good for playing or not good for playing.

    And let's face it so far just by reading most forum there is not a definite impression of how the game actually plays.

    Some say you can solo, some say you can't. Others say it has too many bugs, others say that's not the case.

    So really unless there is  a definite resolution of what this game is and what is not i don't think it can reach that many subs.

    A friend is not him who provides support during your failures.A friend is the one that cheers you during your successes.

  • DijonCyanideDijonCyanide Member UncommonPosts: 586

     

      If I remember correctly a Sigil &/or SOE employee even stated that the intentions for Vanguard were going to be about:  20% soloable, 20% raidish, & remaining 60% there abouts for parties.  However, Mr. Aradune Mithara & others have stated a lot of great ideas about Vanguard which, so far, haven't all been true.  EQ3, I mean Vanguard, is still a great concept, but had a piss poor execution for it's launch.  I voted that Vanguard will eventually assume about 500K players/customers over a year.  Not sure if it will achieve this, but I hope it does succeed.  There are enough people that have to try the newest shiniest thing no matter what & hopefully in time Sigil & SOE will make amends for their disservice & have Vanguard playing how they stated it would be.  I'm sure both negative & positive reviews about Vanguard have merit, so far it does seem there's been more dissapointment though about Vanguard so far. 

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    ummm never, I think 100K might be a good long term goal but they better get their stuff together soon for that  even happen

    I miss DAoC

  • sephersepher Member Posts: 3,561
    Probably never.



    And for those questioning whether or not it's 'niche'; you and most reviews are the ones advocating "this game is not for everyone." You're the same ones calling this game difficult, too much for WoW carebears, so on and so on.



    Yeah it's niche, but for reasons completely different from anything positive; such as the sheer performance requirements and basis of the community being founded in those willing to pay for a beta (me apparently).



    But yeah, 500k? Nah. Vanguard levelling out at a stable 200k would surprise me at this point, but half that or less wouldn't surprise me.
  • Unknown
    I agree that this is mostly a niche game.  And the niche is nostalgic EQers.
  • ViktaalViktaal Member Posts: 78
    How many subs does Horizons have? There's your answer. 500k subs will never happen.
  • parmenionparmenion Member Posts: 260
    I think it will do far better than EQ2 in the long run, it's core design dynamics are far superior, and the hardware will catch upto the level they expected hardware to be at around release time.
  • MikeyRheinMikeyRhein Member Posts: 10

    In my opinion never. But I think everyone will agree with me when I say that this game is ugly if the graphic settings are low (because of our PC's Hardware) and if we set them to high....we can't play the game without performance being effected and lowered badly.

    I have a PC which isn't that bad....can handle any game you install on it, and meets nearly every game's recommended system recommendations....it just can't hand Vanguard SOH at high and I hate it at low graphic settings. Very ugly. Besides that its not really in anyway different from most other western MMOs (I have to say them sorry) WoW, and EQ. I mean it has some interesting ideas and some great new features in design, but its nothing out of this world. I still enjoyed it, but not enough to purchase it.



    The major problem is, they released the game too early. Way too early, and thats mainly why never. Because any game that is released early, gets negative reviews. The people who don't stick to the game, may never go back to it unless new servers are put up, cause they won't want to start at the bottom with very few players at low levels. I had that problem with WoW when I lost my account and had to make a new one. Didn't enjoy it at all being one of the very few on a server at such a low level. If you want to play a game you play it as soon as you can, you don't wait for it to get better. Cause then if you wait for it to get better you end up being one of the few who's low lvl and has to wait for a new server to go up so you can start with many other people at that same level.

    Anyway, thats mostly from my past experiences and from what people have had to say. I  can't see an unfinished game like Vanguard ever reach 500k subscribers, mainly because of the system requirements, and even the system recommendations are too low for the game to have high graphic settings and smooth performance. Its just not a game that can have 500,000 subscribers.

    Lastly, it is kind of aimed at the hardcore PvP/PvE players, who enjoy a challenge. Well thats what I remember reading about Vanguard SOH when it was first announced. Now I'm not so sure anymore. Keep in mind, a lot of people are more satisfied with World of Warcraft at the moment because of burning crusade. Its going to be a while of Vanguard SOH.

  • Unknown
    Originally posted by gestalt11

    I agree that this is mostly a niche game.  And the niche is nostalgic EQers.



    That I think is it's biggest niche. And that is probably hurting the game sales more than anything else.

    Personally I hated early EQ - I think it is much much better now than before McQuaid left.

    And because it is mainly a nostalgic throwback to the "good old days", it's subscriber base will be pretty limited. And once the nostalgia freaks learn that you can't go back, I wonder how many of those will stick around.

    That may not have been Sigil's intent, but the fanbois have decreed it so, and the reputation has stuck.

  • FreddyNoNoseFreddyNoNose Member Posts: 1,558
    Originally posted by Laiina

    Originally posted by gestalt11

    I agree that this is mostly a niche game.  And the niche is nostalgic EQers.



    That I think is it's biggest niche. And that is probably hurting the game sales more than anything else.

    Personally I hated early EQ - I think it is much much better now than before McQuaid left.

    And because it is mainly a nostalgic throwback to the "good old days", it's subscriber base will be pretty limited. And once the nostalgia freaks learn that you can't go back, I wonder how many of those will stick around.

    That may not have been Sigil's intent, but the fanbois have decreed it so, and the reputation has stuck.

    Was it the fan bois? I thought early on the devs wanted "core" games like old school EQers until that point at which their definition of core changed or "was better defined".  That is how I remember it.
  • Unknown
    Originally posted by parmenion

    I think it will do far better than EQ2 in the long run, it's core design dynamics are far superior, and the hardware will catch upto the level they expected hardware to be at around release time.
    The last expansion of EQ2 has sold more copies than VG so far, so don't be too sure.
  • cupertinocupertino Member Posts: 1,094
    Originally posted by matraque

    Originally posted by Balisidar


    Simple. The answer is never.  This is a niche game and will appeal to some but not a majority. The bad press this game has gotten upon it's release will also scare a lot of people away.
    Hopefully, it will be profitable.  The more games that hit Woody's "Game Zapper" the worse off we ALL are.
     
    Show me the bad press please.  I'm dying to read it.  What i have seen is fair reviews or totally biased reviews.



    Thanks :)

    reviews (average score 72%): uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vanguard/review.html



    High system requirments for minimal gfx enjoyment is enough to push most away.



    I noticed the other day my local PCWorld had about 10 copies and had redice the price to £24.99 from the initial £32.99 (which i paid for it 3 weeks back).

    image

  • StoneysilencStoneysilenc Member Posts: 369
    Originally posted by cupertino

    Originally posted by matraque

    Originally posted by Balisidar


    Simple. The answer is never.  This is a niche game and will appeal to some but not a majority. The bad press this game has gotten upon it's release will also scare a lot of people away.
    Hopefully, it will be profitable.  The more games that hit Woody's "Game Zapper" the worse off we ALL are.
     
    Show me the bad press please.  I'm dying to read it.  What i have seen is fair reviews or totally biased reviews.



    Thanks :)

    reviews (average score 72%): uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vanguard/review.html



    High system requirments for minimal gfx enjoyment is enough to push most away.



    I noticed the other day my local PCWorld had about 10 copies and had redice the price to £24.99 from the initial £32.99 (which i paid for it 3 weeks back). Niche and will never reach 500k.  By the time Vanguard does get good (if it does) other big name games will be released and have stolen all of Vanguard's thunder.  It will get lost in the shuffle of LOTRO, AOC, and Warhammer.



    A 70% average on reviews isn't that good, and if you read many of the reviews they say they boosted the score because of "potential" which they shouldn't do for a "review".  I think the Eurogamer Review is the best one, they say it has lots of potential but the actual review score is based on how it is TODAY, not what it could be.

    image

  • matraquematraque Member Posts: 1,431
    Originally posted by Stoneysilenc

    Originally posted by cupertino

    Originally posted by matraque

    Originally posted by Balisidar


    Simple. The answer is never.  This is a niche game and will appeal to some but not a majority. The bad press this game has gotten upon it's release will also scare a lot of people away.
    Hopefully, it will be profitable.  The more games that hit Woody's "Game Zapper" the worse off we ALL are.
     
    Show me the bad press please.  I'm dying to read it.  What i have seen is fair reviews or totally biased reviews.



    Thanks :)

    reviews (average score 72%): uk.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vanguard/review.html



    High system requirments for minimal gfx enjoyment is enough to push most away.



    I noticed the other day my local PCWorld had about 10 copies and had redice the price to £24.99 from the initial £32.99 (which i paid for it 3 weeks back). Niche and will never reach 500k.  By the time Vanguard does get good (if it does) other big name games will be released and have stolen all of Vanguard's thunder.  It will get lost in the shuffle of LOTRO, AOC, and Warhammer.



    A 70% average on reviews isn't that good, and if you read many of the reviews they say they boosted the score because of "potential" which they shouldn't do for a "review".  I think the Eurogamer Review is the best one, they say it has lots of potential but the actual review score is based on how it is TODAY, not what it could be. 70% does not mean it's a bad game.  It does not mean it got "destroyed" by the critics like some are saying.



    I'm going to play now, take care all.

    eqnext.wikia.com

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    Originally posted by parmenion

    I think it will do far better than EQ2 in the long run, it's core design dynamics are far superior, and the hardware will catch upto the level they expected hardware to be at around release time.
    it's core design is a matter of opinion, and most people I know don't want to go back to EQ. By the time the hardware catches up their will be otrehr games out that still have the shiny on them.

    I miss DAoC

  • BalisidarBalisidar Member Posts: 164
    Originally posted by mehhem

    Its not a niche game.  Who would you think it would be a niche for?  Hardcore people?  Its not hard to solo.  Players that only want to fight?  What about the crafting system or diplomacy?  People that only want to craft?  Sure why not, you don't have to fight. 



    As far as I'm concerned, you don't have a clue what the game is about Balisidar.  You haven't played, all you do is flame.



    My friend it is a "Niche" game.  Does that mean it's bad?  No, it means that it appeals to a certain set of people.  Mainly nostalgic EQ players.  I myself played EQ for four years until I decided that SOE didn't give a crap about their players or the game.  Brad himself said this game would NOT appeal to all players. That is a niche.  He also said that he did'nt expect any more than 200K subscriptions to keep the game profitable. 

    I most certainly do have a "clue" as to what the game is about.  I've played MMORPG's since "The Realm" and "Ultima Online".  I've also been jaded and highly critical of MMORPG's since I left Everquest.  That critical and unforgiving outlook has caused me to avoid stinkers like "Horizons", "Dark and Light", "Shadowbane", "DDO" ...and also Star Wars:Galaxies because of the promises that were unfulfilled at launch.  Games that met my expectations at launch were "City of Heroes" and "World of Warcraft" to name two.

    Now...did you also get the part where I said I wanted this game to be profitable?  Heck, I wanted DNL and the other games to succeed as well.  Because when a game fails then the whole genre suffers.  Businesses start thinking that it's un-profitable.  That gives you and I less choices.  Less choices means that the Horror MMORPG I've been dreaming of for years might never see the light of day.  However, I don't pay for unfinished and unpolished products. I honestly expected much better from Brad.

    So, if you consider me to just flame. That's your prerogative.  Just like it's mine to say your wrong.

    Now here's your reviews. Not extremely bad...but they certainly don't scream "Buy me".

    http://www.gamedaily.com/vanguard-saga-of-heroes/pc/game-reviews/2780?articleID=40942

    http://videogames.yahoo.com/gamereview?cid=1991400893&tab=reviews&page=0&eid=503133

    http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/vanguard/review.html?page=1&sid=6166043&part=rss&subj=6166043

    http://pc.gamezone.com/gamesell/reviews/r23701.htm

    http://www.trustedreviews.com/gaming/review/2007/02/14/Vanguard-Saga-of-Heroes/p1

    http://www.gamestats.com/objects/666/666602/#reviews

    http://www.atomicgamer.com/article.php?id=376

    http://www.driverheaven.net/gamingreviews/vanguard/

    http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/vanguardsagaofheroes

    http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/920083.asp

    http://reviews.cnet.com/Vanguard_Saga_of_Heroes_PC/4505-9696_7-31572962.html

    http://game-spectrum.com/content/view/622/151/1/0/

    enjoy.  And yes. I read every single word of these and most of the comments on the reviews.  I don't NEED to play a game to see if I like it or not.  Although, I've said many many many times that I WILL try this game in 6 months to a year.  When theres a free trial. I've already been offered 6 buddy keys from various people on this site and from friends.  I refused them..Why?  Because I don't think it would be fair to try the game in it's current state.

     

    Never be afraid of choices. More choices are always good things.

  • KhaunsharKhaunshar Member UncommonPosts: 349
    Vanguard gets bad press, LotR:O gets bad press, every post-WoW MMO aside from guild wars is getting bad press and mediocre reviews, as people expect a change in the genre, a deviation from WoW and the old EQ sort, and it doesnt happen, or doesnt keep people long enough.



    By now, you have an avid hater community to any major game design element out there.

    You got the PvE haters who demand FFA pvp, preferably full looting.

    You got the PvP haters who dont want PvP due to the immature community it creates.

    You got the raid-haters who, usually coming from Molten Core and Blackwing Lair, got tired of the task of organizing large numbers of ppl.

    You got the solo-haters who consider soloing a threat to the social aspect (which it is) of MMOs.

    You got class-design haters who dont want the tank/heal/DPS concepts anymore, usually wanting an all-DPS game.

    You got levelspeed haters who will always say its slow to level, even in games like WoW or Vanguard where 1 month to max is doable.



    In the end, there are so many vocal minorities out there trying to scream each other down, MMO boards have become the worst way to get a picture of an MMO you want to try, and barely a review is unbiased anymore.



    Best way is to give it a whirl and see for yourself. Anything else, ESPECIALLY on message boards, is utter crap
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