Whoever says that double XP this weekend and a founder's title is a way to lure people in is ... naive. Following that logic, any type of appreciation shown by the developer (even a simple thank you) would be considered a way to lure people in. Dont be silly, its just a way to say "Thank you" to current subscribers. Sure it maybe considered as a way of retaining those current subscribers, so does anything positive added to the game, even patches and bugfixes.
Originally posted by Thamoris Lets see here...It costs the average gamer playing 20 ish hours a week less than 10 CENTS AN HOUR ! ( over the span of a year )....to play an online game that cost 30 MILLION dollars and counting...to produce! I don't think there is alot of wiggle room to bitch with a value as great as that ! A cup of coffee costs ALOT more. If that $15 is worth so much that one has to be soooo careful how they spend it...than in all likelyhood...that person should not be playing online games at all ! They should instead invest that money into a new tie, newpaper, and a cup of coffee in an attempt to find a better job ! Please note..cost of game goes down dramaticaly after the first year unless you buy any expansions....closer to 5 Cents an hour ...please note many play more than 20 ish hours a week and hence...pay even LESS per hour !
Good, they we are in agreement, it would cost Sigil next to nothing to give players 2 additional weeks of free play time as a reward for subscribing through a diificult period, rather than resort to a cheap marketing gimmick of giving out a title and double experience. Wonder why they chose the cheap marketing gimmick then?
If they gave a free trial now...then all the flame throwers would be saying " look! they soooo desparate they need to do a free trial already !! " You can't win either way on these forums.
A free trial is not a RIGHT of ours anyways...online gamers have just become spoiled by that recent trend.
I think you will see a free trial once the game is ready to put its best foot forward.
None have denied the game is still rough around the edges. I firmly believe that it will get fixed up real nice and pretty...and soon too. They have too....too much money at stake not too. It's business 101. Wait about 3 months and I bet you will get your free trial.
State of game as it is now? ...it's 90% playable..and for 10 cents an hour...I can tolerate that 10 % for awhile.
Exactly where in my post does it say "free trial". I am talking about Sigil stepping up and taking responsibility for the problems at launch and giving subscribers an additional 2 weeks of free playing time as compensation. I am not saying a free month, as each and every one of those players has received something from the game in compensation for their subscription. I am saying Sigil should compromise, split the first month down the middle, step up, and take responsibility. Why is taking responsibility for their product such a diificult concept for a company?
Im not talking about just Vanguard either....same can apply to any mmo you enjoy. Bottom line is..if ya don't like..then don't play it, but let those that enjoy it have fun ! Let them tell others about how much fun the are having ! If they end up not likeing it ? They can go play a different game. Thats fine..to each his own! But all the " self proclaimed consumer watchdogs" ..spewing their venom of hate and discontent for absolutely not good reason at all cept to to find others equally hatefull and discontent in order to validate their misery....its simply uncalled for and over the top on these boards. I prefer to spread the joy that I have found playing Vanguard and will continue to campaign on its behalf ....knowing..there are others out there that will share with me..the fun I am having. Knowing that some will disagree and thats fine..they can go play THEIR favorite game and share their joy about that !!
Plus, if they follow your advice, and find that the game is of a quality beneath their expectations, at least their contribution will go towards keeping your game up a little longer... Win win I'd say.
Let Sigil provide the obligation free trial. That way, they really earn their money. And they could really hit the big time!! We all believe in the free-market now don't we?
You are incorrect.
I was beneath YOUR expectations maybe..but you can't speak for others expectations. It's not YOUR job to state it's below their expectations. All YOU can do is give your experience and let people judge for themselves. My experience in Vanguard has been a very POSITIVE one. I can only share my experience and let people play for themselves
Play Vanguard ! It sucks less than the rest !
But you can speak for them (cause you are indoctrinated and all, did they give you a sword and magic helmet to wear whilst you are on crusade), give the free trial out already... oh wait, they gotta pay their fee first on a hit and miss game (you will find my statement leads to an obligation free choice)... Or take the word from a self-professed fanboi who is going on crusade with this game (proselytizer ftl, "Smite me oh mighty smiter!!").
As for the person that stated a free trial would convince the haters that this game is going down, who cares what they think... they've already made up their minds... they won't pay. And who cares what the currently paying customer thinks, they've already got your money (not saying they should change the game in such a way to alienate the current happy customer mind you). You want to reach the fence-sitters. At the end of the day who cares really, Sony doesn't listen to its fanbois, they certainly ain't going to listen to me.
Im not talking about just Vanguard either....same can apply to any mmo you enjoy. Bottom line is..if ya don't like..then don't play it, but let those that enjoy it have fun ! Let them tell others about how much fun the are having ! If they end up not likeing it ? They can go play a different game. Thats fine..to each his own! But all the " self proclaimed consumer watchdogs" ..spewing their venom of hate and discontent for absolutely not good reason at all cept to to find others equally hatefull and discontent in order to validate their misery....its simply uncalled for and over the top on these boards. I prefer to spread the joy that I have found playing Vanguard and will continue to campaign on its behalf ....knowing..there are others out there that will share with me..the fun I am having. Knowing that some will disagree and thats fine..they can go play THEIR favorite game and share their joy about that !!
Plus, if they follow your advice, and find that the game is of a quality beneath their expectations, at least their contribution will go towards keeping your game up a little longer... Win win I'd say.
Let Sigil provide the obligation free trial. That way, they really earn their money. And they could really hit the big time!! We all believe in the free-market now don't we?
You are incorrect.
I was beneath YOUR expectations maybe..but you can't speak for others expectations. It's not YOUR job to state it's below their expectations. All YOU can do is give your experience and let people judge for themselves. My experience in Vanguard has been a very POSITIVE one. I can only share my experience and let people play for themselves
Play Vanguard ! It sucks less than the rest !
Then give the free trial out already... oh wait, they gotta pay their fee first on a hit and miss game (you will find my statement leads to an obligation free choice)... Or take the word from a self-professed fanboi who is going on crusade with this game (proselytizer ftl, "Smite me oh might smighter!!").
As for the person that stated a free trial would convince the haters that this game is going down, who cares what they think... they've already made up their minds... they won't pay. And who cares what the currently paying customer thinks, they've already got your money (not saying they should change the game in such a way to alienate the current happy customer mind you). You want to reach the fence-sitters.
You have already stated that the cost of providing 2 free weeks to current subscribers is minimal. I have already stated in the above post that I am not talking about a free trial, I am talking about 2 free weeks to current customers to compensate them for a difficult launch, and allow them to stay and experience the game revisions over the next 2 weeks. Supposedly a big patch is coming out next week, let the current players that have dropped their subscription have an extension to evaluate the new patch. Why is this such a difficult concept?
The offering of a title and double experience is not conducive to reaching the fence sitters, as you are pointing out Sigil needs to do. Sigil absorbing a two week extension of their subscription just may. You are arguing circle logic that comes back to short term profit goals, not long term subscription retention.
When your mom told you "If you don't have anything nice to say about someone, don't say anything at all." really doesn't pertain here. When a customer has something negative to say about a product, MOST people want to hear it and why. And everyone that thinks negatively about Vanguard have very good reasons for doing so. Personally I wish I waited a couple weeks so I could have read more of the "self proclaimed consumer watchdog" posts. That way I would have saved myself $50 bucks rather than blowing it on this garbage. To be honest, after playing the game for two weeks I see ALOT more truth coming from the flamers than the vanbois. I've been telling everyone to stay away from this game right now, maybe look into it in about 2-3 months, but right now it's garbage, and I will continue to tell people that.
Originally posted by Thamoris You know ..if the value of the car equals the value of online mmos ...then that care would cost me about $20 and YES ..I would buy it ! I could sell the parts for more than $500 ! doh! Weak dude..very weak comeback. Push yor face in the mud ?! You are talking about an online game ! How is charging someone 10 cents an hour to play a multi million dollar production ...pushing your face in the mud ?? When you got spend $10 to see a movie that is an hour and a half long....90% of the time it totally sucks...and they charge you $8 for popcorn and $5 for a large soda 3/4 ths full of ice...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Buying a fancy coffee at Starbucks for $5 ..THAT is pushing your face in the mud. Paying 32 % of my income in taxes only to fatten the pockets of the politicians who could care less about our well being ...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Paying 10 cents an hour to play a massive game, deep and involved..that cost millions to produce ..THAT is a great value !
And this is a prime example of why different things shouldn't be compared on equal levels. This thought process is flawed. It's not whether paying 10 cents an hour is better than watching a movie. It comes down to whether the game is worth the $15/month and currently it doesn't seem like it does.
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
Originally posted by Thamoris You know ..if the value of the car equals the value of online mmos ...then that care would cost me about $20 and YES ..I would buy it ! I could sell the parts for more than $500 ! doh! Weak dude..very weak comeback. Push yor face in the mud ?! You are talking about an online game ! How is charging someone 10 cents an hour to play a multi million dollar production ...pushing your face in the mud ?? When you got spend $10 to see a movie that is an hour and a half long....90% of the time it totally sucks...and they charge you $8 for popcorn and $5 for a large soda 3/4 ths full of ice...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Buying a fancy coffee at Starbucks for $5 ..THAT is pushing your face in the mud. Paying 32 % of my income in taxes only to fatten the pockets of the politicians who could care less about our well being ...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Paying 10 cents an hour to play a massive game, deep and involved..that cost millions to produce ..THAT is a great value !
And this is a prime example of why different things shouldn't be compared on equal levels. This thought process is flawed. It's not whether paying 10 cents an hour is better than watching a movie. It comes down to whether the game is worth the $15/month and currently it doesn't seem like it does.
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
For that matter, using Thamoris' circle logic, masturbation is a better bargain than MMORPGs. Maybe we have an new idea for a circle of fanboi MMORPG'ers here?
Im not talking about just Vanguard either....same can apply to any mmo you enjoy. Bottom line is..if ya don't like..then don't play it, but let those that enjoy it have fun ! Let them tell others about how much fun the are having ! If they end up not likeing it ? They can go play a different game. Thats fine..to each his own! But all the " self proclaimed consumer watchdogs" ..spewing their venom of hate and discontent for absolutely not good reason at all cept to to find others equally hatefull and discontent in order to validate their misery....its simply uncalled for and over the top on these boards. I prefer to spread the joy that I have found playing Vanguard and will continue to campaign on its behalf ....knowing..there are others out there that will share with me..the fun I am having. Knowing that some will disagree and thats fine..they can go play THEIR favorite game and share their joy about that !!
I am confused. Are the people who are enjoying the game having fun or not ? Cause your post
seems to indicate that they can only have fun if no one says anything bad about the game on the
forum. If you are really enjoying the game, what does it matter what other people say and where
they say it ?
It would seem that you have decided that this forum is designated as a positive experience only
zone. Others don't see it that way and view it as a shared experience zone (good and bad).
Everyone has not found joy in Telon and you are demanding that this forum only be used for those
who have. Just because you categorize those with dissenting opinions as spewing the venom of
hate and discontent does not make it so. That is strictly your opinion.
So the question is : Is the game ready for prime time or not ?
For you the answer is yes. For others the answer is no.
In your opinion, the new promotion is a token of fan appreciation.
Others who are a little more skeptical, are of the opinion that it is a desperate attempt to get people
to subscribe.
Can two different people see the same action and infer different things from the event ? Absolutely.
Happens all the time.
What you don't see is one person trying to tell the other that he can not express his opinion or where
he can express that opinion.
You are going to be sorely frustrated if you think you can dictate what opinions people can or
Im not talking about just Vanguard either....same can apply to any mmo you enjoy. Bottom line is..if ya don't like..then don't play it, but let those that enjoy it have fun ! Let them tell others about how much fun the are having ! If they end up not likeing it ? They can go play a different game. Thats fine..to each his own! But all the " self proclaimed consumer watchdogs" ..spewing their venom of hate and discontent for absolutely not good reason at all cept to to find others equally hatefull and discontent in order to validate their misery....its simply uncalled for and over the top on these boards. I prefer to spread the joy that I have found playing Vanguard and will continue to campaign on its behalf ....knowing..there are others out there that will share with me..the fun I am having. Knowing that some will disagree and thats fine..they can go play THEIR favorite game and share their joy about that !!
I am confused. Are the people who are enjoying the game having fun or not ? Cause your post seems to indicate that they can only have fun if no one says anything bad about the game on the forum. If you are really enjoying the game, what does it matter what other people say and where they say it ?
It would seem that you have decided that this forum is designated as a positive experience only zone. Others don't see it that way and view it as a shared experience zone (good and bad).
Everyone has not found joy in Telon and you are demanding that this forum only be used for those who have. Just because you categorize those with dissenting opinions as spewing the venom of hate and discontent does not make it so. That is strictly your opinion.
So the question is : Is the game ready for prime time or not ? For you the answer is yes. For others the answer is no. In your opinion, the new promotion is a token of fan appreciation. Others who are a little more skeptical, are of the opinion that it is a desperate attempt to get people to subscribe.
Can two different people see the same action and infer different things from the event ? Absolutely. Happens all the time.
What you don't see is one person trying to tell the other that he can not express his opinion or where he can express that opinion.
You are going to be sorely frustrated if you think you can dictate what opinions people can or cannot express on this board.
There's expressing a negative opinion. See olddaddy, or aurelyn(sorry if I misspelled either of your names) for a perfect example of expressing a negative opinion. EDIT: In a mature and rational way, that's actually about having a discussion, rather than "ZOMG, SOE Zombies came out of my monitor when I installed the game, and ate my brainz!", or "ZOMG, VG cured my acne!" at the other end of the spectrum.
Then there's making a negative post simply for the sake of being an annoying jackass in a place where no one can punch you in the throat for acting like a jackass. We all know who those people are by now. Or the tinfoil hat crew, claiming that SOE are really aliens herding us into MMO's to fatten us up for eating, or whatever the current theory is.
The problem lies in some people having fallen for the trolling, and now overreacting any time someone posts something that shows the game in a negative light, and then they post something inflammatory about the people that don't like it, and then it all spirals down the toilet from there.
I don't think anyone is advocating not voicing a negative opinion about the game in a mature, or rational way, but all the flamebait from both camps is really getting a bit tiresome.
Originally posted by Thamoris You know ..if the value of the car equals the value of online mmos ...then that care would cost me about $20 and YES ..I would buy it ! I could sell the parts for more than $500 ! doh! Weak dude..very weak comeback. Push yor face in the mud ?! You are talking about an online game ! How is charging someone 10 cents an hour to play a multi million dollar production ...pushing your face in the mud ?? When you got spend $10 to see a movie that is an hour and a half long....90% of the time it totally sucks...and they charge you $8 for popcorn and $5 for a large soda 3/4 ths full of ice...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Buying a fancy coffee at Starbucks for $5 ..THAT is pushing your face in the mud. Paying 32 % of my income in taxes only to fatten the pockets of the politicians who could care less about our well being ...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Paying 10 cents an hour to play a massive game, deep and involved..that cost millions to produce ..THAT is a great value !
And this is a prime example of why different things shouldn't be compared on equal levels. This thought process is flawed. It's not whether paying 10 cents an hour is better than watching a movie. It comes down to whether the game is worth the $15/month and currently it doesn't seem like it does.
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
My logic is not flawed. Ten cents an hour is ten cents an hour. What else can you do in an hour for ten cents? Perhaps sex with your spouse..maybe..but you pay in other ways...lol..trust me on that one. That costs alot more than ten cents an hour in the long run.
By the time a movie makes it to DVD status they have already had their run in the theaters..sucking people dry. The sales the get off DVD is all bonus money. Besides...I hardly call watching the same movie 50x value entertainment...save a very few films that may be good enough to entertain at that level....a very..very few films. Most DVDS are bought..watched a few times and never touched again.
Fifteen dollars a month for an average of 80 hours of gameplay...gameplay that is different each and every time you log in is not comparable to watching the same movie over and over again. THAT movie plays exactly the same...each and every time you watch it. You can watch it a 1000x ..and guess what...its the exact same movie.
So, if the monthly fee suddenly was 40x more than a DVD costs, we should not complain, since we gets 50x more entertainment out of it than from the DVD?
Enough said, everyone should have your "logic" clear, i guess
Originally posted by Thamoris My logic is not flawed. By the time a movie makes it to DVD status they have already had their run in the theaters..sucking people dry. The sales the get off DVD is all bonus money. Besides...I hardly call watching the same movie 50x value entertainment...save a very few films that may be good enough to entertain at that level....a very..very few films. Most DVDS are bought..watched a few times and never touched again. Fifteen dollars a month for an average of 80 hours of gameplay...gameplay that is different each and every time you log in is not comparable to watching the same movie over and over again. THAT movie plays exactly the same...each and every time you watch it. You can watch it a 1000x ..and guess what...its the exact same movie. Weak... Play Vanguard !
The game that sucks less than the rest !
*sigh* I'm going to try to explain to you one last time hoping you'll understand and remove your rose-colored glasses.
Does a DVD provide entertainment value? Yes they do. Whether or not it's the same movie over and over again is not a consideration. People buy movies for entertainment.
And you can go to the park and play basketball or some other sport for free and it costs you nothing. And what a surprise, every game will be different.
Do you see my point now? You cannot compare two completely different forms of entertainment to prove your point. You did that earlier. The real question is opportunity cost. Is VG worth the money and time investment on it's own merits? That depends on the person. For you the $15/month is worth it, to others, they'd rather go see a movie because to them a good 2 hour movie with popcorn is worth more than 80+ hours of VG.
So again, stop comparing and just leave it as "I think VG is worth my $15/month on it's own merits."
Originally posted by Thamoris You know ..if the value of the car equals the value of online mmos ...then that care would cost me about $20 and YES ..I would buy it ! I could sell the parts for more than $500 ! doh! Weak dude..very weak comeback. Push yor face in the mud ?! You are talking about an online game ! How is charging someone 10 cents an hour to play a multi million dollar production ...pushing your face in the mud ?? When you got spend $10 to see a movie that is an hour and a half long....90% of the time it totally sucks...and they charge you $8 for popcorn and $5 for a large soda 3/4 ths full of ice...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Buying a fancy coffee at Starbucks for $5 ..THAT is pushing your face in the mud. Paying 32 % of my income in taxes only to fatten the pockets of the politicians who could care less about our well being ...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Paying 10 cents an hour to play a massive game, deep and involved..that cost millions to produce ..THAT is a great value !
And this is a prime example of why different things shouldn't be compared on equal levels. This thought process is flawed. It's not whether paying 10 cents an hour is better than watching a movie. It comes down to whether the game is worth the $15/month and currently it doesn't seem like it does.
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
My logic is not flawed. Ten cents an hour is ten cents an hour. What else can you do in an hour for ten cents? Perhaps sex with your spouse..maybe..but you pay in other ways...lol..trust me on that one. That costs alot more than ten cents an hour in the long run.
By the time a movie makes it to DVD status they have already had their run in the theaters..sucking people dry. The sales the get off DVD is all bonus money. Besides...I hardly call watching the same movie 50x value entertainment...save a very few films that may be good enough to entertain at that level....a very..very few films. Most DVDS are bought..watched a few times and never touched again.
Fifteen dollars a month for an average of 80 hours of gameplay...gameplay that is different each and every time you log in is not comparable to watching the same movie over and over again. THAT movie plays exactly the same...each and every time you watch it. You can watch it a 1000x ..and guess what...its the exact same movie.
Weak...
Play Vanguard !
The game that sucks less than the rest !
The only thing that is weak is the fact you think positive posts on the game are different to negative ones. I am glad you love VSoH so much, good on you, but I doubt your feeling will last long, the repetitive nature of the game will certainly get to you one way or another when it is mixed with all the bugs/poor animations and lack of innovation in one big stew of salty crapness.
That being said this is a sad marketing gimmick indeed, nothing more, nothing less. If people actually buy into this crap that is their own problem I guess. Sigil don't appreciate the customers, they appreciate money and will do anything to get more of it.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Well, despite the fact that this was done as much as an attempt to retain customers as it was to thank the player base, it was much appreciated by my guildmates who are really enjoying playing Vanguard.
However it did nothing to convince me not to stand by my cancellation order which I put into effect last Monday night....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, despite the fact that this was done as much as an attempt to retain customers as it was to thank the player base, it was much appreciated by my guildmates who are really enjoying playing Vanguard.
However it did nothing to convince me not to stand by my cancellation order which I put into effect last Monday night....
The more I think about it, I keep wondering who the double xp target was...
I mean, the hardcore VG players don't like it because it seems too easy. People who didn't like the game in the first place weren't convinced because it seemed like a gimmick to retain customers. Those who like double xp will ultimately have to return to the old grind after this weekend so not much will have changed for them in the long run. And yes, even though it is possible Sigil did this for appreciation, the perception is, it looks like a shallow gimmick. And perception is critical when you are in retail.
It would have been best if they just gave everyone a few extra free days. That would have been perceived as a showing of good faith that things will improve.
I'm glad they are giving us the founder title and double Exp. I would rather have that than a month free.
I totally doubt that the free month will affect me long enough to see the benefits a year from now.
However, I do see the benefit of the title a year from now when all these Anti-VG gamers drop their VG HATE. Once they REALLY do get a system that handles more than WoW. Then we all can call them NEWBIES, NEWBS, NUBS or whatever you want, depending on what generation you are from.
They just hate it that when they do eventually get a system that can handle VG we will be acclaimed as GODS compared to them NON-FOUNDERS.
And to think the Big 3 were offering only rebates on new car purchases, when all the customer base really wanted was a vanity license plate bracket that gave them a title, and coupon for a free oil change. Yes, the average American consumer is always looking to strike a hard bargain, holding out for substantive incentives. Look, right now I can walk into a store and purchase the original WOW for $19.99, which includes a "free" $15 monthly subscription. That's called a marketing incentive to grab subsciber base, and compared to Vanguards $49.99 is very substantive. What I would like to see from Sigil is something along the lines of, "We understand our first month of launch was rocky, and, as a way to show our appreciating to our customer base, we wish to offer all of you that subscribed prior to March 1st an additional two weeks free. In the upcoming two weeks we intend to introduce more content, fixes and performance upgrades, that we believe will put the game further along the right track, and with these improvements you will be convinced that Vanguard is a game worth staying with." Instead, we get a cheap marketing hype trick.
Lets see here...It costs the average gamer playing 20 ish hours a week less than 10 CENTS AN HOUR ! ( over the span of a year )....to play an online game that cost 30 MILLION dollars and counting...to produce!
I don't think there is alot of wiggle room to bitch with a value as great as that ! A cup of coffee costs ALOT more. If that $15 is worth so much that one has to be soooo careful how they spend it...than in all likelyhood...that person should not be playing online games at all ! They should instead invest that money into a new tie, newpaper, and a cup of coffee in an attempt to find a better job !
And you also like to buy broken cars with no wheels.. because you can afford them. In repsonse to your little stab there, some people need to get a flipping backbone so they can stand up for themselves, instead of being oh so proud when people push their face into the mud.
You know ..if the value of the car equals the value of online mmos ...then that care would cost me about $20 and YES ..I would buy it !
I could sell the parts for more than $500 ! doh!
Weak dude..very weak comeback.
Push yor face in the mud ?! You are talking about an online game ! How is charging someone 10 cents an hour to play a multi million dollar production ...pushing your face in the mud ??
When you got spend $10 to see a movie that is an hour and a half long....90% of the time it totally sucks...and they charge you $8 for popcorn and $5 for a large soda 3/4 ths full of ice...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Buying a fancy coffee at Starbucks for $5 ..THAT is pushing your face in the mud. Paying 32 % of my income in taxes only to fatten the pockets of the politicians who could care less about our well being ...THAT is pushing your face in the mud !
Paying 10 cents an hour to play a massive game, deep and involved..that cost millions to produce ..THAT is a great value !
Great post Thamoris.
MMO's are very good value for money and I'm sorry but anyone who really wants to play the outrage card over the cost of MMO's considering their content to cost ratio, really needs to go start a campaign to see all movies for free, then make a voluntary donation at the end, it would frankly be more credible.
And to think the Big 3 were offering only rebates on new car purchases, when all the customer base really wanted was a vanity license plate bracket that gave them a title, and coupon for a free oil change. Yes, the average American consumer is always looking to strike a hard bargain, holding out for substantive incentives. Look, right now I can walk into a store and purchase the original WOW for $19.99, which includes a "free" $15 monthly subscription. That's called a marketing incentive to grab subsciber base, and compared to Vanguards $49.99 is very substantive. What I would like to see from Sigil is something along the lines of, "We understand our first month of launch was rocky, and, as a way to show our appreciating to our customer base, we wish to offer all of you that subscribed prior to March 1st an additional two weeks free. In the upcoming two weeks we intend to introduce more content, fixes and performance upgrades, that we believe will put the game further along the right track, and with these improvements you will be convinced that Vanguard is a game worth staying with." Instead, we get a cheap marketing hype trick.
Lets see here...It costs the average gamer playing 20 ish hours a week less than 10 CENTS AN HOUR ! ( over the span of a year )....to play an online game that cost 30 MILLION dollars and counting...to produce!
I don't think there is alot of wiggle room to bitch with a value as great as that ! A cup of coffee costs ALOT more. If that $15 is worth so much that one has to be soooo careful how they spend it...than in all likelyhood...that person should not be playing online games at all ! They should instead invest that money into a new tie, newpaper, and a cup of coffee in an attempt to find a better job !
Please note..cost of game goes down dramaticaly after the first year unless you buy any expansions....closer to 5 Cents an hour ...please note many play more than 20 ish hours a week and hence...pay even LESS per hour !
I've just heard talk about a really special deal. You will be able to pay $100 a month and get the special title of True Supporter. There is also talk about an Executive Supporter at $500 a month as well. Sounds cool don't you think.
And to think the Big 3 were offering only rebates on new car purchases, when all the customer base really wanted was a vanity license plate bracket that gave them a title, and coupon for a free oil change. Yes, the average American consumer is always looking to strike a hard bargain, holding out for substantive incentives. Look, right now I can walk into a store and purchase the original WOW for $19.99, which includes a "free" $15 monthly subscription. That's called a marketing incentive to grab subsciber base, and compared to Vanguards $49.99 is very substantive. What I would like to see from Sigil is something along the lines of, "We understand our first month of launch was rocky, and, as a way to show our appreciating to our customer base, we wish to offer all of you that subscribed prior to March 1st an additional two weeks free. In the upcoming two weeks we intend to introduce more content, fixes and performance upgrades, that we believe will put the game further along the right track, and with these improvements you will be convinced that Vanguard is a game worth staying with." Instead, we get a cheap marketing hype trick.
I came to the conclusion that Sigil would have to pay SoE to do this; they are only hiring the servers, CS and so forth. Probably means that they feel they cannot afford to do so.
I'm glad they are giving us the founder title and double Exp. I would rather have that than a month free. I totally doubt that the free month will affect me long enough to see the benefits a year from now. However, I do see the benefit of the title a year from now when all these Anti-VG gamers drop their VG HATE. Once they REALLY do get a system that handles more than WoW. Then we all can call them NEWBIES, NEWBS, NUBS or whatever you want, depending on what generation you are from. They just hate it that when they do eventually get a system that can handle VG we will be acclaimed as GODS compared to them NON-FOUNDERS.
Funny, but I cancelled my subscription after the initial month of play, I am entitled to the title also, so worship me as a God too.
SOE gave out plenty of this tripe in EQ2, I never bothered to cash it in, it was worthless, as eventually everybody and their brother was running around with it. That, an all it really is is an e-peen item. I play these games to enjoy my free time, not to flash my e-peen in public.
And to think the Big 3 were offering only rebates on new car purchases, when all the customer base really wanted was a vanity license plate bracket that gave them a title, and coupon for a free oil change. Yes, the average American consumer is always looking to strike a hard bargain, holding out for substantive incentives. Look, right now I can walk into a store and purchase the original WOW for $19.99, which includes a "free" $15 monthly subscription. That's called a marketing incentive to grab subsciber base, and compared to Vanguards $49.99 is very substantive. What I would like to see from Sigil is something along the lines of, "We understand our first month of launch was rocky, and, as a way to show our appreciating to our customer base, we wish to offer all of you that subscribed prior to March 1st an additional two weeks free. In the upcoming two weeks we intend to introduce more content, fixes and performance upgrades, that we believe will put the game further along the right track, and with these improvements you will be convinced that Vanguard is a game worth staying with." Instead, we get a cheap marketing hype trick.
I came to the conclusion that Sigil would have to pay SoE to do this; they are only hiring the servers, CS and so forth. Probably means that they feel they cannot afford to do so.
Actually, SOE has provided financial support, programmers, and designers to help Sigil out so far. All it would mean is that Sigil gets a little further in debt to SOE. 2 additional free weeks of play is not unheard of to SOE, they did it in EQ 2 just post launch to compensate people for launch problems and a server rollback. It is a very feasible solution for a company that desires to maintain customer goodwill, and thereby subscriptions. If Sigil management is thinking of short term desperation cashflow, they are harming their long term customer relations.
Comments
lol, this is SWG all over again, prepare for NGE
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Good, they we are in agreement, it would cost Sigil next to nothing to give players 2 additional weeks of free play time as a reward for subscribing through a diificult period, rather than resort to a cheap marketing gimmick of giving out a title and double experience. Wonder why they chose the cheap marketing gimmick then?
If they gave a free trial now...then all the flame throwers would be saying " look! they soooo desparate they need to do a free trial already !! " You can't win either way on these forums.
A free trial is not a RIGHT of ours anyways...online gamers have just become spoiled by that recent trend.
I think you will see a free trial once the game is ready to put its best foot forward.
None have denied the game is still rough around the edges. I firmly believe that it will get fixed up real nice and pretty...and soon too. They have too....too much money at stake not too. It's business 101. Wait about 3 months and I bet you will get your free trial.
State of game as it is now? ...it's 90% playable..and for 10 cents an hour...I can tolerate that 10 % for awhile.
Exactly where in my post does it say "free trial". I am talking about Sigil stepping up and taking responsibility for the problems at launch and giving subscribers an additional 2 weeks of free playing time as compensation. I am not saying a free month, as each and every one of those players has received something from the game in compensation for their subscription. I am saying Sigil should compromise, split the first month down the middle, step up, and take responsibility. Why is taking responsibility for their product such a diificult concept for a company?
Let Sigil provide the obligation free trial. That way, they really earn their money. And they could really hit the big time!! We all believe in the free-market now don't we?
You are incorrect.
I was beneath YOUR expectations maybe..but you can't speak for others expectations. It's not YOUR job to state it's below their expectations. All YOU can do is give your experience and let people judge for themselves. My experience in Vanguard has been a very POSITIVE one. I can only share my experience and let people play for themselves
Play Vanguard ! It sucks less than the rest !
But you can speak for them (cause you are indoctrinated and all, did they give you a sword and magic helmet to wear whilst you are on crusade), give the free trial out already... oh wait, they gotta pay their fee first on a hit and miss game (you will find my statement leads to an obligation free choice)... Or take the word from a self-professed fanboi who is going on crusade with this game (proselytizer ftl, "Smite me oh mighty smiter!!").As for the person that stated a free trial would convince the haters that this game is going down, who cares what they think... they've already made up their minds... they won't pay. And who cares what the currently paying customer thinks, they've already got your money (not saying they should change the game in such a way to alienate the current happy customer mind you). You want to reach the fence-sitters. At the end of the day who cares really, Sony doesn't listen to its fanbois, they certainly ain't going to listen to me.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Let Sigil provide the obligation free trial. That way, they really earn their money. And they could really hit the big time!! We all believe in the free-market now don't we?
You are incorrect.
I was beneath YOUR expectations maybe..but you can't speak for others expectations. It's not YOUR job to state it's below their expectations. All YOU can do is give your experience and let people judge for themselves. My experience in Vanguard has been a very POSITIVE one. I can only share my experience and let people play for themselves
Play Vanguard ! It sucks less than the rest !
Then give the free trial out already... oh wait, they gotta pay their fee first on a hit and miss game (you will find my statement leads to an obligation free choice)... Or take the word from a self-professed fanboi who is going on crusade with this game (proselytizer ftl, "Smite me oh might smighter!!").As for the person that stated a free trial would convince the haters that this game is going down, who cares what they think... they've already made up their minds... they won't pay. And who cares what the currently paying customer thinks, they've already got your money (not saying they should change the game in such a way to alienate the current happy customer mind you). You want to reach the fence-sitters.
The offering of a title and double experience is not conducive to reaching the fence sitters, as you are pointing out Sigil needs to do. Sigil absorbing a two week extension of their subscription just may. You are arguing circle logic that comes back to short term profit goals, not long term subscription retention.
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
For that matter, using Thamoris' circle logic, masturbation is a better bargain than MMORPGs. Maybe we have an new idea for a circle of fanboi MMORPG'ers here?
seems to indicate that they can only have fun if no one says anything bad about the game on the
forum. If you are really enjoying the game, what does it matter what other people say and where
they say it ?
It would seem that you have decided that this forum is designated as a positive experience only
zone. Others don't see it that way and view it as a shared experience zone (good and bad).
Everyone has not found joy in Telon and you are demanding that this forum only be used for those
who have. Just because you categorize those with dissenting opinions as spewing the venom of
hate and discontent does not make it so. That is strictly your opinion.
So the question is : Is the game ready for prime time or not ?
For you the answer is yes. For others the answer is no.
In your opinion, the new promotion is a token of fan appreciation.
Others who are a little more skeptical, are of the opinion that it is a desperate attempt to get people
to subscribe.
Can two different people see the same action and infer different things from the event ? Absolutely.
Happens all the time.
What you don't see is one person trying to tell the other that he can not express his opinion or where
he can express that opinion.
You are going to be sorely frustrated if you think you can dictate what opinions people can or
cannot express on this board.
If I've learned anything, it's that if you are hot, they will listen.
Even if you have absolutely nothing at all worth saying.
See: Anna Nichole Smith, Paris Hilton, et all.
So, uh, are ya hawt?
For the record, I don't find ANS, or Hilton, or any of their ilk attractive on any level.
That's it for my derail attempt.
There's expressing a negative opinion. See olddaddy, or aurelyn(sorry if I misspelled either of your names) for a perfect example of expressing a negative opinion. EDIT: In a mature and rational way, that's actually about having a discussion, rather than "ZOMG, SOE Zombies came out of my monitor when I installed the game, and ate my brainz!", or "ZOMG, VG cured my acne!" at the other end of the spectrum.
Then there's making a negative post simply for the sake of being an annoying jackass in a place where no one can punch you in the throat for acting like a jackass. We all know who those people are by now. Or the tinfoil hat crew, claiming that SOE are really aliens herding us into MMO's to fatten us up for eating, or whatever the current theory is.
The problem lies in some people having fallen for the trolling, and now overreacting any time someone posts something that shows the game in a negative light, and then they post something inflammatory about the people that don't like it, and then it all spirals down the toilet from there.
I don't think anyone is advocating not voicing a negative opinion about the game in a mature, or rational way, but all the flamebait from both camps is really getting a bit tiresome.
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
My logic is not flawed. Ten cents an hour is ten cents an hour. What else can you do in an hour for ten cents? Perhaps sex with your spouse..maybe..but you pay in other ways...lol..trust me on that one. That costs alot more than ten cents an hour in the long run.
By the time a movie makes it to DVD status they have already had their run in the theaters..sucking people dry. The sales the get off DVD is all bonus money. Besides...I hardly call watching the same movie 50x value entertainment...save a very few films that may be good enough to entertain at that level....a very..very few films. Most DVDS are bought..watched a few times and never touched again.
Fifteen dollars a month for an average of 80 hours of gameplay...gameplay that is different each and every time you log in is not comparable to watching the same movie over and over again. THAT movie plays exactly the same...each and every time you watch it. You can watch it a 1000x ..and guess what...its the exact same movie.
Weak...
Play Vanguard !
The game that sucks less than the rest !
Thamoris:
So, if the monthly fee suddenly was 40x more than a DVD costs, we should not complain, since we gets 50x more entertainment out of it than from the DVD?
Enough said, everyone should have your "logic" clear, i guess
Does a DVD provide entertainment value? Yes they do. Whether or not it's the same movie over and over again is not a consideration. People buy movies for entertainment.
And you can go to the park and play basketball or some other sport for free and it costs you nothing. And what a surprise, every game will be different.
Do you see my point now? You cannot compare two completely different forms of entertainment to prove your point. You did that earlier. The real question is opportunity cost. Is VG worth the money and time investment on it's own merits? That depends on the person. For you the $15/month is worth it, to others, they'd rather go see a movie because to them a good 2 hour movie with popcorn is worth more than 80+ hours of VG.
So again, stop comparing and just leave it as "I think VG is worth my $15/month on it's own merits."
Your examples are biased. I could use say DVDs as a counter example. Buy a $20 DVD movie (which could have a budget well over $100 million) and you can watch it forever and not pay another dime. Surely that's a better entertainment value than VG, right? Heck, even the initial cost of the box is cheaper. "Well, movies get repetitious and boring if you watch it over and over again." And many would argue MMOs are equally repetitious.
So please, no more comparisons. The question should always be: Is VG worth my $50 initial investment and $15/month and all the time I put into it?
But this isn't the main topic of this thread. My personal thought: All the little bonuses right now seem like gimmicks. It would have been much better if Sigil/SOE gave players a few free days.
My logic is not flawed. Ten cents an hour is ten cents an hour. What else can you do in an hour for ten cents? Perhaps sex with your spouse..maybe..but you pay in other ways...lol..trust me on that one. That costs alot more than ten cents an hour in the long run.
By the time a movie makes it to DVD status they have already had their run in the theaters..sucking people dry. The sales the get off DVD is all bonus money. Besides...I hardly call watching the same movie 50x value entertainment...save a very few films that may be good enough to entertain at that level....a very..very few films. Most DVDS are bought..watched a few times and never touched again.
Fifteen dollars a month for an average of 80 hours of gameplay...gameplay that is different each and every time you log in is not comparable to watching the same movie over and over again. THAT movie plays exactly the same...each and every time you watch it. You can watch it a 1000x ..and guess what...its the exact same movie.
Weak...
Play Vanguard !
The game that sucks less than the rest !
The only thing that is weak is the fact you think positive posts on the game are different to negative ones. I am glad you love VSoH so much, good on you, but I doubt your feeling will last long, the repetitive nature of the game will certainly get to you one way or another when it is mixed with all the bugs/poor animations and lack of innovation in one big stew of salty crapness.
That being said this is a sad marketing gimmick indeed, nothing more, nothing less. If people actually buy into this crap that is their own problem I guess. Sigil don't appreciate the customers, they appreciate money and will do anything to get more of it.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
However it did nothing to convince me not to stand by my cancellation order which I put into effect last Monday night....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I mean, the hardcore VG players don't like it because it seems too easy. People who didn't like the game in the first place weren't convinced because it seemed like a gimmick to retain customers. Those who like double xp will ultimately have to return to the old grind after this weekend so not much will have changed for them in the long run. And yes, even though it is possible Sigil did this for appreciation, the perception is, it looks like a shallow gimmick. And perception is critical when you are in retail.
It would have been best if they just gave everyone a few extra free days. That would have been perceived as a showing of good faith that things will improve.
==========================
I'm glad they are giving us the founder title and double Exp. I would rather have that than a month free.
I totally doubt that the free month will affect me long enough to see the benefits a year from now.
However, I do see the benefit of the title a year from now when all these Anti-VG gamers drop their VG HATE. Once they REALLY do get a system that handles more than WoW. Then we all can call them NEWBIES, NEWBS, NUBS or whatever you want, depending on what generation you are from.
They just hate it that when they do eventually get a system that can handle VG we will be acclaimed as GODS compared to them NON-FOUNDERS.
Lets see here...It costs the average gamer playing 20 ish hours a week less than 10 CENTS AN HOUR ! ( over the span of a year )....to play an online game that cost 30 MILLION dollars and counting...to produce!
I don't think there is alot of wiggle room to bitch with a value as great as that ! A cup of coffee costs ALOT more. If that $15 is worth so much that one has to be soooo careful how they spend it...than in all likelyhood...that person should not be playing online games at all ! They should instead invest that money into a new tie, newpaper, and a cup of coffee in an attempt to find a better job !
And you also like to buy broken cars with no wheels.. because you can afford them. In repsonse to your little stab there, some people need to get a flipping backbone so they can stand up for themselves, instead of being oh so proud when people push their face into the mud.
You know ..if the value of the car equals the value of online mmos ...then that care would cost me about $20 and YES ..I would buy it !
I could sell the parts for more than $500 ! doh!
Weak dude..very weak comeback.
Push yor face in the mud ?! You are talking about an online game ! How is charging someone 10 cents an hour to play a multi million dollar production ...pushing your face in the mud ??
When you got spend $10 to see a movie that is an hour and a half long....90% of the time it totally sucks...and they charge you $8 for popcorn and $5 for a large soda 3/4 ths full of ice...THAT is pushing your face in the mud ! Buying a fancy coffee at Starbucks for $5 ..THAT is pushing your face in the mud. Paying 32 % of my income in taxes only to fatten the pockets of the politicians who could care less about our well being ...THAT is pushing your face in the mud !
Paying 10 cents an hour to play a massive game, deep and involved..that cost millions to produce ..THAT is a great value !
Great post Thamoris.MMO's are very good value for money and I'm sorry but anyone who really wants to play the outrage card over the cost of MMO's considering their content to cost ratio, really needs to go start a campaign to see all movies for free, then make a voluntary donation at the end, it would frankly be more credible.
Double XP week... Oh man I just had a scary flash-back somewhere from the past.
Sorry.. Carry on.
Lets see here...It costs the average gamer playing 20 ish hours a week less than 10 CENTS AN HOUR ! ( over the span of a year )....to play an online game that cost 30 MILLION dollars and counting...to produce!
I don't think there is alot of wiggle room to bitch with a value as great as that ! A cup of coffee costs ALOT more. If that $15 is worth so much that one has to be soooo careful how they spend it...than in all likelyhood...that person should not be playing online games at all ! They should instead invest that money into a new tie, newpaper, and a cup of coffee in an attempt to find a better job !
Please note..cost of game goes down dramaticaly after the first year unless you buy any expansions....closer to 5 Cents an hour ...please note many play more than 20 ish hours a week and hence...pay even LESS per hour !
I've just heard talk about a really special deal. You will be able to pay $100 a month and get the special title of True Supporter. There is also talk about an Executive Supporter at $500 a month as well. Sounds cool don't you think.Funny, but I cancelled my subscription after the initial month of play, I am entitled to the title also, so worship me as a God too.
SOE gave out plenty of this tripe in EQ2, I never bothered to cash it in, it was worthless, as eventually everybody and their brother was running around with it. That, an all it really is is an e-peen item. I play these games to enjoy my free time, not to flash my e-peen in public.
Actually, SOE has provided financial support, programmers, and designers to help Sigil out so far. All it would mean is that Sigil gets a little further in debt to SOE. 2 additional free weeks of play is not unheard of to SOE, they did it in EQ 2 just post launch to compensate people for launch problems and a server rollback. It is a very feasible solution for a company that desires to maintain customer goodwill, and thereby subscriptions. If Sigil management is thinking of short term desperation cashflow, they are harming their long term customer relations.