Oh, dear... where to begin... 1. It's a violation of the rules, for several MMORPGs. Companies like Square-Enix and Blizzard are very clear about this in their game terms, which you are accepting when you play. Which again makes it illegal. Companies like e-bay has accepted that game companies own all the rights, and has therefore forbidden selling gold, items/equips and game accounts. 2. Even if it "doesn't exist" as you say, it's a digital property, legally owned by the companies. That could be said about EVERY computer game/program in existance, since only the CD, DVD or whatever it's stored on, is the physical item. 3. It's cheating. Do you think it's fair that you are able to beat others in PvP because you have the most expensive equips? Honest players use hours/days/weeks to get what they want or need, and you will still beat them with equips it took you seconds to buy. So it DOES hurt, or at least affect, others. And you support an industry most players hate to be bothered with in-game. 4. If you (and those other you talk about, which you know) don't have the time to play the games, it doesn't mean you're allowed to break laws + cheating. 5. If everyone bought in-game money, there wouldn't be any others than the RMTs (money sellers) farming. I'm saying farming, not EXPing. So buying gold does NOT increase activity. It increase lazyness. I have NEVER bought in-game money, items, etc, and I never will! Buying such is for losers, who can't make anything out of a game without cheating.
I can tell that you are black/white, right/wrong kinda guy. That's fine but the reality is that rules and laws are only as good as their level of enforcement. I'm not saying that 'gold selling' is justifiable but I think it's wishful thinking to use the argument that it is against the rules. With the current profit to penalty ratio, gold sellers and their customers are just not going to care what you, as a subscriber, say about the legalities of the practice.
It may not be ethical but I don't share your view that it is cheating. If the game design allows for some players to have a more powerful character than others is it really relevant how they got there as long as they are not violating the game mechanics? Is it reasonable that an independently wealthy individual can play 24/7 and obtain a numerical advantage over someone who has to work six day per week? Instead of the gold buyer being a cheater, maybe the game is just discriminatory against those with a lack of free time. I have never seen disclaimers on the game box stating that XX amount of time per day is required to remain numerically competitive with other players. You call gold buyers losers. Others might call them enterprising if they can pay somebody a nominal fee to perform a mundane task while they dedicate the same time to more lucrative activities.
IMO the bottom line is that the MMO studios are to blame. They are the ones who have fostered an environment that promotes RMT and try to plug the leaks with conditions in their TOSs with questionable legitimacy. The grinds and item dependency in these MMOs are like a taxation where the currency is time and with high taxes come evasion and black markets. We could debate the morality of 3rd party RMTs for years but as long as the studios continue to pump out these game models there will always be a supply and demand for them.
Originally posted by Momokogo Okay, here's where you're wrong. Just being "against the rules" of a game doesn't make it punishible by united states law. standing on top of buildings and shooting at NPCs on the ground is against the rules in World of Warcraft, but that doesn't mean the police can come to your house and arrest you for it. Unless i'm mistaken, selling gold CANNOT be punishible outside of Blizzard's sphere (e.g. they can ban you from the game, take all your phat lootz, or whatever).
I don't buy gold. But i do sell it.
Rest of the post is not interesting for my response, so I deleted it. From Blizzard's EULA, I underlined some interesting facts: 3. Ownership. A. All title, ownership rights and intellectual property rights in and to the Game and all copies thereof (including without limitation any titles, computer code, themes, objects, characters, character names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, locations, concepts, artwork, character inventories, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, audio-visual effects, storylines, character likenesses, methods of operation, moral rights, and any related documentation) are owned or licensed by Blizzard. The Game is protected by the copyright laws of the United States, international treaties and conventions, and other laws. The Game may contain materials licensed by third parties, and the licensors of those materials may enforce their rights in the event of any violation of this License Agreement. Last section of the EULA: I hereby acknowledge that I have read and understand the foregoing License Agreement and agree that by clicking Accept or installing the Game Client I am acknowledging my agreement to be bound by the terms and conditions of this License Agreement. It not just "against the rules" - you ARE breaking copyright laws, you have accepted the terms, and therefore you are bound by them. You cannot sell what others own, and you know it! You will probably never see any cops investigating your case, but someday you might be arrested for it, and if you increase your "business" to a large scale, Blizzard will probably be aware of you and take proper actions. If you browse FBI's site (http://www.fbi.gov/cyberinvest/cyberhome.htm) you will find plenty of stories they have posted about cases involving copyrighted goods. And, you will see the penalties are up to 5 years in a federal prison, and $250,000 fine. Not including the amount Blizzard could sue you for. Source for Blizzard's EULA: http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/eula.html btw, it's on the US site.
Yeh, Yeh, Yeh, shut up already dude. Blizzard or any other mmo companys is NOT about to sue Joe Bloe for buying or selling some virtual gold. Maybe some huge company that sells it and makes a million dollars or more a year, sure. But if I go to eBay and buy or sell 200 gold twice a year for WoW, trust me, I ain't gonna get frickin' sued. The worst that would happen to me is a ban or suspension of my account... but then again, Blizzard probably is searching for more then 200 gold sent between characters in the game.
Sure, it's against the rules. So is copying a music CD for your buddy and handing it to him. So is recording a movie you rent on a blank DVD. So is speeding 2 mph over the speed limit while driving your car. So is a million other things.
In the end, it all comes down to a personal decision. Is breaking rule X and facing a potential Y consequence worth it? If yes, then break said rule X. If not worth the risk, then don't break it.
I've bought WoW gold for my nephews who play WoW regularly and love to spend it on stupid crap in the Auction House that they couldn't have afforded without buying the gold. I think I've bought a total of 500 gold for both of them in 2+ years now. Uh oh. Call the cops big mighty holier then thou Netspook. While you're at it, call Blizzard and tell them I did it too. Hell, I'll even give you my account name if you like. Oh yeh, and while you got Blizzard on the phone, will you ask them to make a server or two with some actual consequences for dying and stuff so that I myself might enjoy their pussified game more?
Thanks dude. And thanks for warning us all of how we'll all go to jail for 5 years and pay $250,000 or whatever if we ever buy or sell some WoW gold. I'll be sure and remember your big warnings this May when my nephews birthday comes up again, and he asks me for some more gold and I pull up eBay. I'll remember your big self-righteous warnings against such a horrid crime. Click. {Buy it Now} Click. {Pay Now with Paypal} Easiest damn gift I ever bought and pretty happy little nephews for very little trouble and cost. Oh, damn I forgot your warnings. I'll call the cops on myself later okay? Right now my TV show is on.
Ohaan, if you don't have the time to farm or whatever, since you work 6 days a week, then you have bought the wrong game. Most MMORPGs, at least the major ones (WoW, EQ2, FFXI, etc) are designed to keep ppl playing. If you lack the time, then such games are not for you. Blaming on being to busy, is not a good reason to buy gold, etc - it's just a bad excuse.
bobbler: To put it in terms even you could understand: You're not important enough! Let me guess: that's something you often hear? Aelfinn: I have only checked the first link, but very interesting!
what am i to say to your superrior ruling with such great facts. i am stumped. im not important enough? haha i havent heard that one yet. actually i never will. maybe you should get back ontopic. It seems you need some guidelines to what you should say and the topic would help you. So if its breaking the law why can you not enforce it on me right now and call the FBI because they care about me buying virtual assets lol...
Ok. Your post may be interesting, but I never know since i stopped reading immediately. This is the last attention you get from me. If you can't debate without telling ppl to shut up, then go back to kindergarten and argue with your equals!
Personally, whats the point, I understand the powerleveling, say your account gets hacked and you wanna play with your friends again, but paying for gold is nonsense, actually pl is too, sry to be a contradicter but basically anyone who is paying someone else to play a game for them is pretty lame, if your too lazy to make some gold, sure buy it, if you dont have the time, but its just weird, you pay to play this game, your paying monthly, then you pay someone else to basically cheat.....l2p
Here's one hypothetical scenario:
Dark Age of Camelot has a highly rated RvR system. Unfortunate reality is that you have to be at max level in order to be evenly matched with 99% of your opponents. That means you have to level before you can RvR the problem is that you find levelling in DAoC extremely boring. So you can either kill boars for two months, RvR as a level one toon (and spend all your time dieing) , or you can hire a PL service or buy an account with a pre-existing max level character. That is why you would pay someone else to 'play' for you, because you do not find a particular aspect of a game enjoyable.
bobbler: To put it in terms even you could understand: You're not important enough! Let me guess: that's something you often hear? Aelfinn: I have only checked the first link, but very interesting!
what am i to say to your superrior ruling with such great facts. i am stumped. im not important enough? haha i havent heard that one yet. actually i never will. maybe you should get back ontopic. It seems you need some guidelines to what you should say and the topic would help you. So if its breaking the law why can you not enforce it on me right now and call the FBI because they care about me buying virtual assets lol... A.) No one is saying the FBI gives a rat's ass about it... yet
B.) They would never care anyways, its not their field. The IRS would be covering this one.
C.) Hmm, lets make a choice between going after the multimillion dollar corporation based in China, or this random kid making a few bucks. That is what he meant about importance.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee. Hemingway
Originally posted by Netspook Originally posted by zaxtor99
Yeh, Yeh, Yeh, shut up already dude.
Ok. Your post may be interesting, but I never know since i stopped reading immediately. This is the last attention you get from me. If you can't debate without telling ppl to shut up, then go back to kindergarten and argue with your equals!
Whew. I tell you what. The angels must be looking out for me, cuz' if he woulda read my whole post then I'd surely be going to prison for 5 years and paying out a quarter of a million dollars!
Ok. Your post may be interesting, but I never know since i stopped reading immediately. This is the last attention you get from me. If you can't debate without telling ppl to shut up, then go back to kindergarten and argue with your equals!
O wow i just had the largest problem understanding that. your telling him his post is inadequate to your standards of debate because of how he opened it. look at the last one you addressed to me and rethink your policy. dont post if your not going to add anything to the debate.
bobbler: To put it in terms even you could understand: You're not important enough! Let me guess: that's something you often hear? Aelfinn: I have only checked the first link, but very interesting!
what am i to say to your superrior ruling with such great facts. i am stumped. im not important enough? haha i havent heard that one yet. actually i never will. maybe you should get back ontopic. It seems you need some guidelines to what you should say and the topic would help you. So if its breaking the law why can you not enforce it on me right now and call the FBI because they care about me buying virtual assets lol...A.) No one is saying the FBI gives a rat's ass about it... yet
B.) They would never care anyways, its not their field. The IRS would be covering this one.
C.) Hmm, lets make a choice between going after the multimillion dollar corporation based in China, or this random kid making a few bucks. That is what he meant about importance.i dont see why i should be introuble then = as i said before this guy is saying that this is breaking the law. i havent seen anyone jailed for buying anything yet.
Ohaan, if you don't have the time to farm or whatever, since you work 6 days a week, then you have bought the wrong game. Most MMORPGs, at least the major ones (WoW, EQ2, FFXI, etc) are designed to keep ppl playing. If you lack the time, then such games are not for you. Blaming on being to busy, is not a good reason to buy gold, etc - it's just a bad excuse.
Doesnt hold water for me. Particularly WoW which made extensive reference to being 'casual player friendly' yet, especially at end game, is anything but. You said it yourself - these games are designed to keep people playing. I think you are trying to simplify a complex system of cause and effect.
You need to differentiate between civil and criminal law. Breach of contract is a civil wrong. You are not punished by the State for that. The other contractual party sues for any damages they suffer. You sell gold? What damage does Blizzard suffer? How can you quantify that? It is nothing.
Check your local Criminal Codes to work out what offences interest the State. These are the offences which have custodial sentences.
''98-''99 UO (Golden days!) ''00-''02 CS; SB beta ''03-''04 MODO ''04-''07 WoW ''07 - SB Waiting for Darkfall and PoBS
Sure, it's against the rules. So is copying a music CD for your buddy and handing it to him. So is recording a movie you rent on a blank DVD. So is speeding 2 mph over the speed limit while driving your car. So is a million other things.
Well, so far the polls is running with 50% of the respondents supporting the buying and/or selling of online items or gold. Since people who admit to this practice face heavy persecution, many won't even respond to such a query, but I'd guesstimate that in most games at least 50% of the player base has done this, even if they won't admit it.
What always gets left out of surveys like this is account selling. Many players who curse on-line gold selling and buying see nothing wrong with selling their accounts for a grand once they are done with them.
And I doubt there's more than a handful of people posting against gold selling here that don't have an illegally burned CD, DVD or game in their posession right now. (or hasn't driven faster than the posted speed limit for that matter)
So let's knock off the hypocracy. People only care because this is a game...and people hate cheating in games... especially when it created a disadvantage for them. They normally have no problem breaking the rules in other situations, so they have no right to cast stones here.
And to those of you who "never" have broken any rules or laws in their lives (or games for that matter)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I sold my pair of 6 year old UO accounts for $500US. Couldnt really believe anyone would pay that much.
But surely the all time suckers of buying virtual stuffs, would have to be the people who paid like $2K - $3500 for Jedi in SWG before they became as common as Banther crap
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Just being "against the rules" of a game doesn't make it punishible by united states law. standing on top of buildings and shooting at NPCs on the ground is against the rules in World of Warcraft, but that doesn't mean the police can come to your house and arrest you for it. Unless i'm mistaken, selling gold CANNOT be punishible outside of Blizzard's sphere (e.g. they can ban you from the game, take all your phat lootz, or whatever).
I don't buy gold. But i do sell it. Why? Because i'm a kid. I'm in high school. I don't have a job. I have time to play computer games. Some people don't. Some people have real jobs and are productive members of society. We NEED them to do other things, like grow crops, defend people in court, run big companies. So because they don't have the time of a teenager to play games, they shouldn't have a fair shot?
The way I look at it, is you have the people who can play the game through and through, and others who just want to experience the parts they enjoy without laboring through others that they don't. If everyone decided to quit their jobs to stay home and play WoW all day, our country would FALL APART. Look at Japan and China and Korea with their LAWS regarding how many hours you can play video games. We don't need that.
So what's the big deal if someone wants to turn some real-life productivity into in-game productivity? Personally, i've never had trouble identifying people who buy their stuff, because they suck regardless of their purchased phat loot.
No here's where you're wrong. Its doesn't matter if it's currently not against the law. You are breaking an agreement you've signed with the game provider. You can try to justify it all you want but it is still wrong.
Doesn't matter if you're a kid. Make extra spending money mowing lawns. And RMT are not keeping our country from falling apart.
Breaking an illegal and immoral agreement is not wrong.
Advocating it's validity is.
Agreeing to something under duress, does not count as either agreement or contractual obligation. If he doesn't click I agree the product he paid for does not functon. Similarly if under threat of torture I confess to a crime, it doesn't mean I did it. It might just mean I will say anything to stop being tortured.
This is called "Duress" it invalidates all contractual obligation. Things signed under duress should not be mistaken for "agreement".
You're going to argue that your agreement to play a game was made under duress? If you don't agree to the terms of a EULA of a game don't play it and find one you can.
Breaking an illegal and immoral agreement is not wrong. Advocating it's validity is.
Agreeing to something under duress, does not count as either agreement or contractual obligation. If he doesn't click I agree the product he paid for does not functon. Similarly if under threat of torture I confess to a crime, it doesn't mean I did it. It might just mean I will say anything to stop being tortured. This is called "Duress" it invalidates all contractual obligation. Things signed under duress should not be mistaken for "agreement".
To an extent I agree with you. Most of the EULA's that come with shrink-wrapped software are not legally binding. You have already agreed a contract when you have brought the game - hence the MMO company has no right to try to change the terms after the event. Especially when they are offering you nothing in return beyond what you have already paid for.
However your terminology is dodgy. The agreements are not "Illegal" - they are just not legally binding - very different. You have also not given the slightest evidence that they are immoral.
Personally I find in game currency selling to be a form of cheating. I would like to issue a challenge to anyone who supports currency trading:
Do you recognize the concept of cheating and can you describe what it is?
I personally don't believe that without choosing bizarre and arbitrary definitions (e.g. everything I do is fine, what other people do is cheating), it isn't even possible to define the concept of cheating without either excluding gold buying or including activities that almost everyone considers to be completely immoral e.g. hacking to get advantages in game.
The concepts expressed so far in this thread most certainly fail in this regard. People have said "I am money rich and time poor and so it is ok for me to buy gold so I can be competitive".
Consider replacing a few words "I am computer savvy and time poor so it is ok for me to hack the game so I can be competetive".
How is one concept morally different from the other. Why is one cheating and the other not cheating?
Answer this. Or I will forever consider you a cheat.
Comments
bobbler:
To put it in terms even you could understand: You're not important enough! Let me guess: that's something you often hear?
Aelfinn:
I have only checked the first link, but very interesting!
I find it amazing that by 2020 first world countries will be competing to get immigrants.
It may not be ethical but I don't share your view that it is cheating. If the game design allows for some players to have a more powerful character than others is it really relevant how they got there as long as they are not violating the game mechanics? Is it reasonable that an independently wealthy individual can play 24/7 and obtain a numerical advantage over someone who has to work six day per week? Instead of the gold buyer being a cheater, maybe the game is just discriminatory against those with a lack of free time. I have never seen disclaimers on the game box stating that XX amount of time per day is required to remain numerically competitive with other players. You call gold buyers losers. Others might call them enterprising if they can pay somebody a nominal fee to perform a mundane task while they dedicate the same time to more lucrative activities.
IMO the bottom line is that the MMO studios are to blame. They are the ones who have fostered an environment that promotes RMT and try to plug the leaks with conditions in their TOSs with questionable legitimacy. The grinds and item dependency in these MMOs are like a taxation where the currency is time and with high taxes come evasion and black markets. We could debate the morality of 3rd party RMTs for years but as long as the studios continue to pump out these game models there will always be a supply and demand for them.
Yeh, Yeh, Yeh, shut up already dude. Blizzard or any other mmo companys is NOT about to sue Joe Bloe for buying or selling some virtual gold. Maybe some huge company that sells it and makes a million dollars or more a year, sure. But if I go to eBay and buy or sell 200 gold twice a year for WoW, trust me, I ain't gonna get frickin' sued. The worst that would happen to me is a ban or suspension of my account... but then again, Blizzard probably is searching for more then 200 gold sent between characters in the game.
Sure, it's against the rules. So is copying a music CD for your buddy and handing it to him. So is recording a movie you rent on a blank DVD. So is speeding 2 mph over the speed limit while driving your car. So is a million other things.
In the end, it all comes down to a personal decision. Is breaking rule X and facing a potential Y consequence worth it? If yes, then break said rule X. If not worth the risk, then don't break it.
I've bought WoW gold for my nephews who play WoW regularly and love to spend it on stupid crap in the Auction House that they couldn't have afforded without buying the gold. I think I've bought a total of 500 gold for both of them in 2+ years now. Uh oh. Call the cops big mighty holier then thou Netspook. While you're at it, call Blizzard and tell them I did it too. Hell, I'll even give you my account name if you like. Oh yeh, and while you got Blizzard on the phone, will you ask them to make a server or two with some actual consequences for dying and stuff so that I myself might enjoy their pussified game more?
Thanks dude. And thanks for warning us all of how we'll all go to jail for 5 years and pay $250,000 or whatever if we ever buy or sell some WoW gold. I'll be sure and remember your big warnings this May when my nephews birthday comes up again, and he asks me for some more gold and I pull up eBay. I'll remember your big self-righteous warnings against such a horrid crime. Click. {Buy it Now} Click. {Pay Now with Paypal} Easiest damn gift I ever bought and pretty happy little nephews for very little trouble and cost. Oh, damn I forgot your warnings. I'll call the cops on myself later okay? Right now my TV show is on.
- Zaxx
Ohaan, if you don't have the time to farm or whatever, since you work 6 days a week, then you have bought the wrong game. Most MMORPGs, at least the major ones (WoW, EQ2, FFXI, etc) are designed to keep ppl playing. If you lack the time, then such games are not for you. Blaming on being to busy, is not a good reason to buy gold, etc - it's just a bad excuse.
Dark Age of Camelot has a highly rated RvR system. Unfortunate reality is that you have to be at max level in order to be evenly matched with 99% of your opponents. That means you have to level before you can RvR the problem is that you find levelling in DAoC extremely boring. So you can either kill boars for two months, RvR as a level one toon (and spend all your time dieing) , or you can hire a PL service or buy an account with a pre-existing max level character. That is why you would pay someone else to 'play' for you, because you do not find a particular aspect of a game enjoyable.
B.) They would never care anyways, its not their field. The IRS would be covering this one.
C.) Hmm, lets make a choice between going after the multimillion dollar corporation based in China, or this random kid making a few bucks. That is what he meant about importance.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
Whew. I tell you what. The angels must be looking out for me, cuz' if he woulda read my whole post then I'd surely be going to prison for 5 years and paying out a quarter of a million dollars!
{looks up to heaven..} Saved again.
- Zaxx
Netspook:
The EULA is a contract prepared by Blizzard. Contracts often have clauses that are unenforcable. Eg penalty clauses in a loan agreement.
Wasn't there a case about the selling of characters online in which the Court determined that players were selling their time?
''98-''99 UO (Golden days!)
''00-''02 CS; SB beta
''03-''04 MODO
''04-''07 WoW
''07 - SB
Waiting for Darkfall and PoBS
O wow i just had the largest problem understanding that. your telling him his post is inadequate to your standards of debate because of how he opened it. look at the last one you addressed to me and rethink your policy. dont post if your not going to add anything to the debate.
B.) They would never care anyways, its not their field. The IRS would be covering this one.
C.) Hmm, lets make a choice between going after the multimillion dollar corporation based in China, or this random kid making a few bucks. That is what he meant about importance.i dont see why i should be introuble then = as i said before this guy is saying that this is breaking the law. i havent seen anyone jailed for buying anything yet.
Netspook *throw* ----> [] ----> (common sense)
******************** ***********************
****************** Window ********************
- Zaxx
You need to differentiate between civil and criminal law. Breach of contract is a civil wrong. You are not punished by the State for that. The other contractual party sues for any damages they suffer. You sell gold? What damage does Blizzard suffer? How can you quantify that? It is nothing.
Check your local Criminal Codes to work out what offences interest the State. These are the offences which have custodial sentences.
''98-''99 UO (Golden days!)
''00-''02 CS; SB beta
''03-''04 MODO
''04-''07 WoW
''07 - SB
Waiting for Darkfall and PoBS
Never bought any gold or Items, but I've always wanted to sell some.
I'm not shy, I'll take the money.
Well, so far the polls is running with 50% of the respondents supporting the buying and/or selling of online items or gold. Since people who admit to this practice face heavy persecution, many won't even respond to such a query, but I'd guesstimate that in most games at least 50% of the player base has done this, even if they won't admit it.
What always gets left out of surveys like this is account selling. Many players who curse on-line gold selling and buying see nothing wrong with selling their accounts for a grand once they are done with them.
And I doubt there's more than a handful of people posting against gold selling here that don't have an illegally burned CD, DVD or game in their posession right now. (or hasn't driven faster than the posted speed limit for that matter)
So let's knock off the hypocracy. People only care because this is a game...and people hate cheating in games... especially when it created a disadvantage for them. They normally have no problem breaking the rules in other situations, so they have no right to cast stones here.
And to those of you who "never" have broken any rules or laws in their lives (or games for that matter)
Welcome back Lord....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I sold my pair of 6 year old UO accounts for $500US. Couldnt really believe anyone would pay that much.
But surely the all time suckers of buying virtual stuffs, would have to be the people who paid like $2K - $3500 for Jedi in SWG before they became as common as Banther crap
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
No here's where you're wrong. Its doesn't matter if it's currently not against the law. You are breaking an agreement you've signed with the game provider. You can try to justify it all you want but it is still wrong.
Doesn't matter if you're a kid. Make extra spending money mowing lawns. And RMT are not keeping our country from falling apart.
Breaking an illegal and immoral agreement is not wrong.
Advocating it's validity is.
Agreeing to something under duress, does not count as either agreement or contractual obligation. If he doesn't click I agree the product he paid for does not functon. Similarly if under threat of torture I confess to a crime, it doesn't mean I did it. It might just mean I will say anything to stop being tortured.
This is called "Duress" it invalidates all contractual obligation. Things signed under duress should not be mistaken for "agreement".
You're going to argue that your agreement to play a game was made under duress? If you don't agree to the terms of a EULA of a game don't play it and find one you can.
However your terminology is dodgy. The agreements are not "Illegal" - they are just not legally binding - very different. You have also not given the slightest evidence that they are immoral.
edit - split the post up for clarity
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Do you recognize the concept of cheating and can you describe what it is?
I personally don't believe that without choosing bizarre and arbitrary definitions (e.g. everything I do is fine, what other people do is cheating), it isn't even possible to define the concept of cheating without either excluding gold buying or including activities that almost everyone considers to be completely immoral e.g. hacking to get advantages in game.
The concepts expressed so far in this thread most certainly fail in this regard. People have said "I am money rich and time poor and so it is ok for me to buy gold so I can be competitive".
Consider replacing a few words "I am computer savvy and time poor so it is ok for me to hack the game so I can be competetive".
How is one concept morally different from the other. Why is one cheating and the other not cheating?
Answer this. Or I will forever consider you a cheat.
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