I think it's a little unfair to suggest that KeeperofKeb hates gays because of his views. He clearly states that he doesn't hate them, but is against their lifesyle. So, kind of in the same way as if your friend picked up a heroin addiction, you wouldn't hate him, but you would probably hate what the drugs were doing to him.
The Old Testiment also talks about how eating pigs makes you unclean. Now, both this and gay sex were big health risks at the time of writing. I think God was just trying to look after us in the same way as a parent might smack their child for walking into a road. If homosexuality is something that is biological, I can't really see God being quite as angry about his own creation and something that a person has no choice over, as is suggested.
My own take is that I'm not in any position to judge. I'm not gay, which fortunately means I don't need to struggle with whether it's right or wrong for me, but not knowing that, means I'm not going to judge those that are in that position. I'd prefer that my gay friends didn't tell me the details, but that's not any different from my straight friends.
As far as the law goes, I wouldn't want a government of a different morality to mine forcing that morality on me, and so I wouldn't support forcing my morality on everyone else (even if I knew I was right ).
The overwhelming majority of gays don't want to come up to you at the bus stop and scream they are gay at you just for the heck of it.
Yeah, that was just a scaled down analogy to help illustrate my feelings about the role of gay and lesbian organizations and self appointed gay or lesbian spokespersons in society.
Most of us just want to live a life with the same respect that heterosexuals receive. You get to put a picture of your wife/girlfriend up on your desk at work without any fear. If I were to put a picture of me and my boyfriend on my desk at work, I run the risk of alienation to even getting fired.
Ok, but I can't help you with that. I doubt that anybody could help you with that unless your boss was stupid enough to tell you he was firing you because you are gay, in which case you could take legal action. We already have laws to cover this sort of thing. Beyond that what more do you want?
Some people will never be comfortable knowing that you are gay and you can't change that. I can't change it either. That's just the way it is and the way it will always be. And you know, we all sometimes have to accomodate other people just for the sake of getting along. Unless you live alone in the wilderness somewhere.
Is there anyone in this world who has never been around other people for whom they had to feign an interest in something they weren't really interested in or to refrain from mentioning something which they knew would create conflict? I doubt it.
I'm not welcome in certain careers simply because of who I am capable of loving.
Which careers? The military is the only thing I can think of and then only if you point out the fact that you are gay.
And am certainly not welcome in many places because of the mindset of a lot of people.
Why would you want to be around those people in the first place? If a group of people don't like you because you are gay is it really so important to you to force them to let you hang out with them?
We're simply trying to change that. Of course, some homosexuals take it to an extreme, but that extreme goes both ways. I bet that for every gay person who offends you there are 10 times as many straight people who have no problem throwing out a gay slur with no remorse.
In all honesty I can say that I have never once been personally offended by a gay person in my personal life. I mean by a gay person who I was actually physically near. I'm not saying it couldn't happen but up to this point it hasn't.
You may not like a gay person coming up to you at the bus stop screaming they are gay, but I wonder if you would feel that same anger and resentment at someone coming up to you at the bus stop and throwing a gay slur around.
Again, that bus stop thing was just an analogy. But ok. If someone came up and tossed off a gay slur the truth is that I probably wouldn't care at all, depending on the situation. But if he kept going on and on and on about then, yes, I would get annoyed.
Or even someone on the street by that bus stop screaming about how all of us gays are undeserving of rights and freedoms because of something we have no control over.
What rights and freedoms? I know about the whole gay marriage issue but setting that aside for the moment, what rights and freedoms are you being denied? I don't think there is any big movement to deny gays the vote or to have them all locked up in prison camps or anything like that.
Or would you be the person that steps up and tells that person they are wrong?
Again it depends on the situation. I don't like to see anyone being bullied. If there was some little scrawny guy standing there and a bigger guy came up and started calling him a fag and pushing him around...I would side with the little guy whether he was actually gay or not. Now I can't say for sure what I would do. It would depend a lot on just how big the bigger guy is and how brave I'm feeling on that particular day.
Okay, so when he says "Gays are an abomination!" that isnt hate? Imagine if he called black people an abomination and a perversion of God's will... would you dare say that he wasnt a racist?
His worst crime might be that he was indoctrinated to hate homosexuals from an early age. That is understandable, but it is not forgiveable. Maybe people are indoctrinated to be white supremecists, or black supremecists, or jihadists... but that doesnt make it excusable. If he was really a man of God as he claims, he should know the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus never said "Thou shall hate the fagz0rs!"
Okay, so when he says "Gays are an abomination!" that isnt hate? Imagine if he called black people an abomination and a perversion of God's will... would you dare say that he wasnt a racist? His worst crime might be that he was indoctrinated to hate homosexuals from an early age. That is understandable, but it is not forgiveable. Maybe people are indoctrinated to be white supremecists, or black supremecists, or jihadists... but that doesnt make it excusable. If he was really a man of God as he claims, he should know the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus never said "Thou shall hate the fagz0rs!"
You're misquoting him. He said homosexuality is an abomination - not homosexuals. Hate the sin, love the sinner and all that... Being black is something you are, not something you do, so I don't think that's a reasonable comparison (I'm giving Keeperof Keb the benefit of the doubt that he's referring to a homosexual acting and not just being).
You're quite right though, we have no reference of Jesus talking about homosexuality at all, but He hammered on a lot with the "don't judge" and "love your neighbour" a fair bit.
I wish people would leave the churches out of this stuff already. Eating meat on the wrong day used to be a hell-worthy trespass.
The world used to be flat, disease was caused by gnomes living in your belly and your king was god-sent.
X number of years from now, there won't even be gay or straight. The taboo and fear will fade. Almost anything some of you would consider deviant will be the norm.
They came from the sea and they came from the sky, Captain America is going to die!
Okay, so when he says "Gays are an abomination!" that isnt hate? Imagine if he called black people an abomination and a perversion of God's will... would you dare say that he wasnt a racist? His worst crime might be that he was indoctrinated to hate homosexuals from an early age. That is understandable, but it is not forgiveable. Maybe people are indoctrinated to be white supremecists, or black supremecists, or jihadists... but that doesnt make it excusable. If he was really a man of God as he claims, he should know the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus never said "Thou shall hate the fagz0rs!"
You're misquoting him. He said homosexuality is an abomination - not homosexuals. Hate the sin, love the sinner and all that... Being black is something you are, not something you do, so I don't think that's a reasonable comparison (I'm giving Keeperof Keb the benefit of the doubt that he's referring to a homosexual acting and not just being).
You're quite right though, we have no reference of Jesus talking about homosexuality at all, but He hammered on a lot with the "don't judge" and "love your neighbour" a fair bit.
your absolutely right eggftegg the act of homosexuality is an abomination. amazing how people want to twist my words. What is really happening here is more than what homosexuals experience, some people in this discussion forum call me a homosexual racist and say that my beliefs are wrong to impose on the gay population being a hatemonger and spreading hate, but the truth is in this discussion already people have expressed their hatred against christianity it has become a stench to the world, any attempt to bring God into any conversation is treated with active aggression against the faith. I don't hate anyone but love all praying and hoping that people will know the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is far better than anything the world has to offer. God throughout the ages has been an activist against all forms of sin, but also greatly giving grace and mercy to those who turn from the error of their ways to live a life of honor and dignity and walking in the truth and love that God will give freely to all those that want it. this will be my last posting on this topic.
Quick question, and this is not intended as a put down in any way. This is a question asked out of ignorance, not out of hate, so no flaming, if you don't mind.
Could Draenor or any other bible scholars out there tell me exactly why God cares about Homosexuals?
The only answer I can think of is the fact that Homosexuals don't breed, and you should "Be fruitful", but I gotta think its deeper than that. I always thought most of Gods Commandments were reasonable rules, that are based off the qualities of fairness, or equality of one man to another (I.E. Don't kill, because it isn't fair to take another's life, or don't steal, because its unfair to take another's things).
Any answer would be appreciated.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment; We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Quick question, and this is not intended as a put down in any way. This is a question asked out of ignorance, not out of hate, so no flaming, if you don't mind. Could Draenor or any other bible scholars out there tell me exactly why God cares about Homosexuals? The only answer I can think of is the fact that Homosexuals don't breed, and you should "Be fruitful", but I gotta think its deeper than that. I always thought most of Gods Commandments were reasonable rules, that are based off the qualities of fairness, or equality of one man to another (I.E. Don't kill, because it isn't fair to take another's life, or don't steal, because its unfair to take another's things). Any answer would be appreciated.
Passages:
Leviticus 18:22, 18:29
1 Kings 14:24
Romans 1:18-27
Romans 1.
Romans 2.
Short Answer:
Because God's plan for sex is not for men to have sex with one another, or for women to have sex with one another. It is something that is supposed to be reserved for a man and a woman. Christians believe that our bodies are not our own, but rather that they belong to God, because they were "bought" from us when Jesus died on the cross. Therefore when two men have sex with eachother, they defile their bodies(which belong to God) by going against God's plan for sex.
Before you say it, yes, I realize that I said in a previous thread that Christians are not subject to "the law" as given to the Jews by Moses in Leviticus. Since Homosexuality is preached as wrong in both the new and old testament, Christians are to assume the same as Jews regarding homosexuality, but due to the fact that we are not subject to the law, the consequences for something like homosexuality are not nearly as severe. Christians have Jesus to forgive us, we don't need to do things to pass judgment on our fellow man as it is described in Leviticus.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
As i'm sure there are a lot of people out there that hate homosexuals i think the hate is being severely misinterpreted by homosexuals simply because people don't agree with the lifestyle. If our society gives in to homosexual wants,ideas, and desires concerning relationships and marriages these ideas will be pushed into our schools,churches and general public life. For example if homosexuals gain the right to be recognized for marriage by the government, whats to stop someone from wanting to marry their pet or wanting to have multiple wives or husbands. What will happen is it will open pandora's box to a whole avenue of immoral practices that will be forced to be condoned by the government as a recognizeable covenant. Another fact remains is that homosexual and lesbian lifestyles carry higher risks of STD's and other various types of diseases like HIV because apart from what conventional homosexual belief is, the act of homosexual activity is a perversion against the body. here is some information i copied and pasted from a site that did statistical research on sexually transmitted diseases and other various diseases that occur with homosexual activity.
There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with homosexuality being pushed into school to a certain degree, as they learn that there are also males who love each the same gender, as well as females. It would only come for the best, maybe children will finally stop using the words "Fag" and "Gay" as insults. in the part below you talk about standards. America preaches how its the land of freedom, and how everyone gets equal rights, But don't you dare to be diffrent,Even if its something that can't be helped, because that means no equal rights for you. What kind of standards are that?
The other things you mentioned are complete diffrent subects.
Now i know what your thinking your thinking i'm wrong i'm a hatemonger and that i'm complete whacko but the truth of the matter is what kind of people are we? do we have standards of living? how long before we completely break down our moral structure to where there is nothing left of our dignity, thats why we fight for the rights of marriage thats why we fight for the right for freedom of speach when it is being taken away year after year There is only one BUT. There is no "OUR" Moral structure. there is YOUR moral structure. If you think Marrying another man is wrong, then fine, don't marry another man, that is your right and that is your choice. But your morals should NOT have any influence on someone else's life. Just becaue you see it as a lack of dignity does not mean someone else also sees it a a lack of dignity. If a man wants to marry another man, then that is none of your damn bussiness. its how THEY want to live their life, it doesn't affect ANYONE but them, it doesn't harm anything or anyone.
. Did you know that pastors can't preach politics in their pulpits, that if they do their 501c3 non profit statis will be removed from them because officials running for office that were under par from morality were losing votes cause churches were standing up for whats right. where's our freedom of speech? Did you know pastors in Canada can't preach against homosexuality if they do they will go to jail for hate speech. How much longer before that becomes a law here. Homosexuals want all the rights in the world to continue what they want to do and want to take our rights away i'll even give you a prime example. your very own Elton John wants to ban religion. That is the truth of the matter we fight to keep our morals we are against it cause as a whole we need hold a level of morality or all hell breaks loose and then it becomes total anarchy, it starts with these basic principles. There are no set basic principles. There are no set morals, everyone has their own morals, and your morals, And I don't care if they are brought to you by your parents, your religion, or anything else, should NOT be pushed onto someone else. Just because your convinced that its wrong does NOT mean that someone else agrees with you.
KeeperofKeb
the difference between you and I is that I believe that there is Right and Wrong, Moral and Immoral practices that are dictated by my beliefs in God. You don't have those beliefs so your not guided by anything except your fleshly instinct. My point of view is if God sees it as wrong then its wrong, homosexuality is perverse it takes the love for a man and a woman and an intimacy that is supposed to be sacred and turns it into an abomination against the foundation upon which relationships were made and that just because you or someone else thinks its right doesn't make it right for them its still wrong. The fact of the matter is we are created beings, we have a God that wants a relationship with us, he gives us rules to live by not because he's evil but because he loves us, Sin is the road to death when we (christians) preach that homosexuality is wrong we are delivering what God is saying to the people from his word, although i admit some preachers do it hatefully it should never be done that way. I understand there are people here that don't uphold to these beliefs but just because you don't believe them doesn't make you right, you're still wrong. I"ll give you a basic example there are many truths in this world that are absolutes like the sky is blue or 2+2=4 or and object in motion tends to stay in motion. We (christians) have truths like this that are immoveable,unchanging that are very precise and distinct. Now someone else comes along with a perverted sense of perception and says the sky is Red! no 2+2=5 or objects don't stay in motion when in motion. What has happened within our society is men are born knowing right from wrong but lust after the things of the world and do those things violating their consciousness until they can't tell right from wrong anymore and choose to live in them and love them. All christians are doing is trying to help those that sit in darkness trying to show the path to truth and salvation and if they choose not to except it, then thats their own choice but there is one ultimate judge who has to judge all the sins of the world and ultimately justice has to be served and God is giving mankind a chance at Grace and Mercy and Restoration, that my friend is why we preach.
KeeperofKeb
Your giving christianity way too much credit.
Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
I wasn't going to reply to this until I read you claiming that the BIble says that the Earth is flat...no it doesn't. You can have your opinions, however absurd I believe them to be...but I won't tolerate you lying about the Bible.
Did Bible Writers believe the earth was flat?
No—this false idea is not taught in Scripture!
In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space—the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. By 150 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes had already measured the 25,000-mile circumference of the earth. The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. Some people may have thought the earth was flat, but certainly not the great explorers. Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Okay, so when he says "Gays are an abomination!" that isnt hate? Imagine if he called black people an abomination and a perversion of God's will... would you dare say that he wasnt a racist? His worst crime might be that he was indoctrinated to hate homosexuals from an early age. That is understandable, but it is not forgiveable. Maybe people are indoctrinated to be white supremecists, or black supremecists, or jihadists... but that doesnt make it excusable. If he was really a man of God as he claims, he should know the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus never said "Thou shall hate the fagz0rs!"
You're misquoting him. He said homosexuality is an abomination - not homosexuals. Hate the sin, love the sinner and all that... Being black is something you are, not something you do, so I don't think that's a reasonable comparison (I'm giving Keeperof Keb the benefit of the doubt that he's referring to a homosexual acting and not just being).
You're quite right though, we have no reference of Jesus talking about homosexuality at all, but He hammered on a lot with the "don't judge" and "love your neighbour" a fair bit.
your absolutely right eggftegg the act of homosexuality is an abomination. amazing how people want to twist my words. What is really happening here is more than what homosexuals experience, some people in this discussion forum call me a homosexual racist and say that my beliefs are wrong to impose on the gay population being a hatemonger and spreading hate, but the truth is in this discussion already people have expressed their hatred against christianity it has become a stench to the world, any attempt to bring God into any conversation is treated with active aggression against the faith. I don't hate anyone but love all praying and hoping that people will know the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is far better than anything the world has to offer. God throughout the ages has been an activist against all forms of sin, but also greatly giving grace and mercy to those who turn from the error of their ways to live a life of honor and dignity and walking in the truth and love that God will give freely to all those that want it. this will be my last posting on this topic.
KeeperofKeb
Saying "He said homosexuality is an abomination, not homosexuals!" is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. A person is a homosexual because their sexual orientation is homosexuality. The fact that they are a homosexual is dependant on their acting out of sexual acts with a member of the same sex. So by saying that homosexuality is an abomination, he is saying that homosexuals are an abomination since the only thing identifying them as homosexuals is their homosexuality.
To clarify: a homosexual is someone who engages in homosexual activity. To say "I dont hate homosexuals, I hate homosexual activity" is like saying "I dont hate teachers, I just hate people teaching!"
And KeeperofKeb, I am not acting aggressively towards Christianity which you would've realized if you used that brain God gave you and read my posts. You would see that I am speaking aggressively towards those who pervert the religion, like yourself, not people who try to live their lives according to the words of Jesus Christ. You obviously have not read the teachings of Jesus Christ because he teaches love, acceptance, patience etc which are not values that people of your kind possess. You follow a twisted form of Christianity which has more of Satan in it than of God.
Your words towards homosexuals are so wrathful, so why not take the advice of Jesus, and if your tongue causes you to sin... why not rip it out?
Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
I wasn't going to reply to this until I read you claiming that the BIble says that the Earth is flat...no it doesn't.
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
I wasn't going to reply to this until I read you claiming that the BIble says that the Earth is flat...no it doesn't.
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Leviticus 18:22, 18:29 1 Kings 14:24 Romans 1:18-27 Romans 1. Romans 2. Short Answer: Because God's plan for sex is not for men to have sex with one another, or for women to have sex with one another. It is something that is supposed to be reserved for a man and a woman. Christians believe that our bodies are not our own, but rather that they belong to God, because they were "bought" from us when Jesus died on the cross. Therefore when two men have sex with eachother, they defile their bodies(which belong to God) by going against God's plan for sex. Before you say it, yes, I realize that I said in a previous thread that Christians are not subject to "the law" as given to the Jews by Moses in Leviticus. Since Homosexuality is preached as wrong in both the new and old testament, Christians are to assume the same as Jews regarding homosexuality, but due to the fact that we are not subject to the law, the consequences for something like homosexuality are not nearly as severe. Christians have Jesus to forgive us, we don't need to do things to pass judgment on our fellow man as it is described in Leviticus.
Thanks. Thats sort of what I thought, but I understand it a little clearer.
My position is this:
I'm agnostic, but my side that says that there is the possibility of a God would like to believe that God is a bit less restrictive than as versed in other religions. I'm by no means a Christian in any religious beliefs I might have, but lots of things in the good book make sense. However, I think that most of the rules God sent down were first and foremost for the safety of his creation, and not in any way meant to be held against someone eternally. However, us humans seem to disreguard most rules if they don't have consequences, and what bigger consequence is there but eternal damnation?
Basically, I think that if a God exists, he is quite a bit more benevolent than depected in any religion. I figure if he is a supreme being, he understands all the temptations and problems with modern-day faith. He, above all, should be accepting and forgiving towards the things he created. Of course, this could almost be attributed to wishful thinking, but I figure a supreme being has a lot of time to think about these things, and this is the only logical conclusion I can come to in only a couple of years of thinking about it. Still, he probably knows a lot I don't.
Still, thanks for the reply, I'm glad for the information (especially the part about Homosexuals being elegible for forgivness and such, I had always thought that that type of thing was supposed to be unforgiveable, you learn something new everyday).
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment; We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
I wasn't going to reply to this until I read you claiming that the BIble says that the Earth is flat...no it doesn't.
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.
ah yes, the good old excuse that we should not take it "Litteral". When the Bible is wrong, it is a "Metaphor" haha. Note that not ONE of those links brings hard evidence that the examples I gave have a diffrent meaning then what is clearly written. we only have some "Theories".
But lets look at creationists most favorite counter arguement.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22
A circle is not a ball ,sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is FLAT.
Isaiah could have meant two things:
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
next your going to try to disprove the biblic claim that the sun moves around the earth. Or is that a "metaphor" as well?
Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
I wasn't going to reply to this until I read you claiming that the BIble says that the Earth is flat...no it doesn't.
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.
ah yes, the good old excuse that we should not take it "Litteral". When the Bible is wrong, it is a "Metaphor" haha. Note that not ONE of those links brings hard evidence that the examples I gave have a diffrent meaning then what is clearly written. we only have some "Theories".
But lets look at creationists most favorite counter arguement.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22
A circle is not a ball ,sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is FLAT.
Isaiah could have meant two things:
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
next your going to try to disprove the biblic claim that the sun moves around the earth. Or is that a "metaphor" as well?
Astronomers refer to pictures of planets as the "disk of the planet" Does the Bible not get that same privelage? Also, you refered to the part of the Bible that refers to the four corners of the world(refering to the four cardinal directions) does a circle have edges? Of course not...You were proven wrong so you went to the next most convenient argument, cute.
You can purposefully misinterpret it all that you wish, anyone who is reading it without the expressed purpose of trying to find something wrong with it isn't going to interpret "to the end of the world" as the Bible saying that the Earth is flat...the next Pirates of the Carribean movie is called "at world's end" that doesn't mean that the writers believe that the world is flat.
The notion that the Earth is flat was a product of the Dark Ages, astronomers have known for millenia that the Earth is not flat.
also: yay for you ignoring the post that I made with half a dozen links to answers to the questions that you are posing. I don't know why I bother debating you sometimes Gameloading, you never let logic and reason get a foothold, you simple stick to your atheist guns and don't let go no matter who is telling you a different story. You have biblical scholars telling you otherwise, yet you think you know better, that's a level of arrogance that I can't even fathom.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
I wasn't going to reply to this until I read you claiming that the BIble says that the Earth is flat...no it doesn't.
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.
ah yes, the good old excuse that we should not take it "Litteral". When the Bible is wrong, it is a "Metaphor" haha. Note that not ONE of those links brings hard evidence that the examples I gave have a diffrent meaning then what is clearly written. we only have some "Theories".
But lets look at creationists most favorite counter arguement.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22
A circle is not a ball ,sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is FLAT.
Isaiah could have meant two things:
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
next your going to try to disprove the biblic claim that the sun moves around the earth. Or is that a "metaphor" as well?
Astronomers refer to pictures of planets as the "disk of the planet" Does the Bible not get that same privelage? Also, you refered to the part of the Bible that refers to the four corners of the world(refering to the four cardinal directions) does a circle have edges? Of course not...You were proven wrong so you went to the next most convenient argument, cute.
Actually I was not proven wrong at all. What, you think a few christians comming up with theories actually qualifies as proven wrong? Then you are deeply mistaken. The Bible clearly points at a flat earth, and you can jump up and down and from left to right, but only desperate christians come up with excuses for the things that are clearly stated in the bible.
I gave you two examples as to why the bible is wrong (of which one you simply ignored because you REALLY need a lot of imagination to come up with the "misinterpret" for that) and you give me few articles saying "nonono! this is what they meant! don't take it literal! don't take it literal!"? please.
You can purposefully misinterpret it all that you wish, anyone who is reading it without the expressed purpose of trying to find something wrong with it isn't going to interpret "to the end of the world" as the Bible saying that the Earth is flat...the next Pirates of the Carribean movie is called "at world's end" that doesn't mean that the writers believe that the world is flat.
The notion that the Earth is flat was a product of the Dark Ages, astronomers have known for millenia that the Earth is not flat.
en links to answers to the questions that you are posing. I don't know why I bother debating you sometimes Gameloading, you never let logic and reason get a foothold, you simple stick to your atheist guns and don't let go no matter who is telling you a different story. You have biblical scholars telling you otherwise, yet you think you know better, that's a level of arrogance that I can't even fathom.
Thats deep irony right there. you doing the exact same thing, so its pointless to point the finger at me. You of all people shouldn't even use the word "logic".
But I agree with you somewhat, I don't even know why we are still debating over things like this, all these debates turn into a "who can post the most website links" anyway, and after..what, 6 months of arguing about religion, evolution, creationism, big bang theory and whatnot, we're still right where we left off, neither of us is going to convince the other. I'm going to back out of this subject all together, Its really starting to get tiresome, and above all, repetive.
I will have to say that most of the scripture that you quoted, Gameloading, seems to be more of figures of speech than literal statements.
If you want to argue things that the Bible states which we clearly know are incorrect you should argue about the creation story. We know that it is false. Anyone who says otherwise is unreasonable and probably have been so heavily indoctrinated that they will not be able to be persuaded (much like Socrates in the Apology).
the reason people hate them is for many reasons and I resent people who do. I mean there not hurting anyone. Anyway most cristains hate them because it's a sin wich I think is hypocratic because this is appaerntly the only "sin" people think is wrong. In all fairness they should ban fat people and long haired people then. And also they only think of what happens in bead so they don't think of a guy ass-fucking a girl wich is the same thing.
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.
Comments
I think it's a little unfair to suggest that KeeperofKeb hates gays because of his views. He clearly states that he doesn't hate them, but is against their lifesyle. So, kind of in the same way as if your friend picked up a heroin addiction, you wouldn't hate him, but you would probably hate what the drugs were doing to him.
The Old Testiment also talks about how eating pigs makes you unclean. Now, both this and gay sex were big health risks at the time of writing. I think God was just trying to look after us in the same way as a parent might smack their child for walking into a road. If homosexuality is something that is biological, I can't really see God being quite as angry about his own creation and something that a person has no choice over, as is suggested.
My own take is that I'm not in any position to judge. I'm not gay, which fortunately means I don't need to struggle with whether it's right or wrong for me, but not knowing that, means I'm not going to judge those that are in that position. I'd prefer that my gay friends didn't tell me the details, but that's not any different from my straight friends.
As far as the law goes, I wouldn't want a government of a different morality to mine forcing that morality on me, and so I wouldn't support forcing my morality on everyone else (even if I knew I was right
).
Okay, so when he says "Gays are an abomination!" that isnt hate? Imagine if he called black people an abomination and a perversion of God's will... would you dare say that he wasnt a racist?
His worst crime might be that he was indoctrinated to hate homosexuals from an early age. That is understandable, but it is not forgiveable. Maybe people are indoctrinated to be white supremecists, or black supremecists, or jihadists... but that doesnt make it excusable. If he was really a man of God as he claims, he should know the words of Jesus Christ. Jesus never said "Thou shall hate the fagz0rs!"
You're misquoting him. He said homosexuality is an abomination - not homosexuals. Hate the sin, love the sinner and all that... Being black is something you are, not something you do, so I don't think that's a reasonable comparison (I'm giving Keeperof Keb the benefit of the doubt that he's referring to a homosexual acting and not just being).
You're quite right though, we have no reference of Jesus talking about homosexuality at all, but He hammered on a lot with the "don't judge" and "love your neighbour" a fair bit.
The world used to be flat, disease was caused by gnomes living in your belly and your king was god-sent.
X number of years from now, there won't even be gay or straight. The taboo and fear will fade. Almost anything some of you would consider deviant will be the norm.
They came from the sea and they came from the sky, Captain America is going to die!
You're misquoting him. He said homosexuality is an abomination - not homosexuals. Hate the sin, love the sinner and all that... Being black is something you are, not something you do, so I don't think that's a reasonable comparison (I'm giving Keeperof Keb the benefit of the doubt that he's referring to a homosexual acting and not just being).
You're quite right though, we have no reference of Jesus talking about homosexuality at all, but He hammered on a lot with the "don't judge" and "love your neighbour" a fair bit.
your absolutely right eggftegg the act of homosexuality is an abomination. amazing how people want to twist my words. What is really happening here is more than what homosexuals experience, some people in this discussion forum call me a homosexual racist and say that my beliefs are wrong to impose on the gay population being a hatemonger and spreading hate, but the truth is in this discussion already people have expressed their hatred against christianity it has become a stench to the world, any attempt to bring God into any conversation is treated with active aggression against the faith. I don't hate anyone but love all praying and hoping that people will know the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is far better than anything the world has to offer. God throughout the ages has been an activist against all forms of sin, but also greatly giving grace and mercy to those who turn from the error of their ways to live a life of honor and dignity and walking in the truth and love that God will give freely to all those that want it. this will be my last posting on this topic.
KeeperofKeb
Quick question, and this is not intended as a put down in any way. This is a question asked out of ignorance, not out of hate, so no flaming, if you don't mind.
Could Draenor or any other bible scholars out there tell me exactly why God cares about Homosexuals?
The only answer I can think of is the fact that Homosexuals don't breed, and you should "Be fruitful", but I gotta think its deeper than that. I always thought most of Gods Commandments were reasonable rules, that are based off the qualities of fairness, or equality of one man to another (I.E. Don't kill, because it isn't fair to take another's life, or don't steal, because its unfair to take another's things).
Any answer would be appreciated.
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Passages:
Leviticus 18:22, 18:29
1 Kings 14:24
Romans 1:18-27
Romans 1.
Romans 2.
Short Answer:
Because God's plan for sex is not for men to have sex with one another, or for women to have sex with one another. It is something that is supposed to be reserved for a man and a woman. Christians believe that our bodies are not our own, but rather that they belong to God, because they were "bought" from us when Jesus died on the cross. Therefore when two men have sex with eachother, they defile their bodies(which belong to God) by going against God's plan for sex.
Before you say it, yes, I realize that I said in a previous thread that Christians are not subject to "the law" as given to the Jews by Moses in Leviticus. Since Homosexuality is preached as wrong in both the new and old testament, Christians are to assume the same as Jews regarding homosexuality, but due to the fact that we are not subject to the law, the consequences for something like homosexuality are not nearly as severe. Christians have Jesus to forgive us, we don't need to do things to pass judgment on our fellow man as it is described in Leviticus.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
the difference between you and I is that I believe that there is Right and Wrong, Moral and Immoral practices that are dictated by my beliefs in God. You don't have those beliefs so your not guided by anything except your fleshly instinct. My point of view is if God sees it as wrong then its wrong, homosexuality is perverse it takes the love for a man and a woman and an intimacy that is supposed to be sacred and turns it into an abomination against the foundation upon which relationships were made and that just because you or someone else thinks its right doesn't make it right for them its still wrong. The fact of the matter is we are created beings, we have a God that wants a relationship with us, he gives us rules to live by not because he's evil but because he loves us, Sin is the road to death when we (christians) preach that homosexuality is wrong we are delivering what God is saying to the people from his word, although i admit some preachers do it hatefully it should never be done that way. I understand there are people here that don't uphold to these beliefs but just because you don't believe them doesn't make you right, you're still wrong. I"ll give you a basic example there are many truths in this world that are absolutes like the sky is blue or 2+2=4 or and object in motion tends to stay in motion. We (christians) have truths like this that are immoveable,unchanging that are very precise and distinct. Now someone else comes along with a perverted sense of perception and says the sky is Red! no 2+2=5 or objects don't stay in motion when in motion. What has happened within our society is men are born knowing right from wrong but lust after the things of the world and do those things violating their consciousness until they can't tell right from wrong anymore and choose to live in them and love them. All christians are doing is trying to help those that sit in darkness trying to show the path to truth and salvation and if they choose not to except it, then thats their own choice but there is one ultimate judge who has to judge all the sins of the world and ultimately justice has to be served and God is giving mankind a chance at Grace and Mercy and Restoration, that my friend is why we preach.
KeeperofKeb
Your giving christianity way too much credit.Basing society on christianity (or any religion for that matter) is wrong. Religion is incredbly shallow, and has never been proven. it has NEVER been proven that all the events claimed in the bible actually happened. In fact, there is not a single bit of evidence that there even is a god. Ever wondered why creationism is never taught in school, besides religion class? Because religion is too flawed.
For example, the Earth is NOT flat, the earth does NOT have edges, like the bible claims.
You are, right here and now, shoving your belief (which is unproven, and the only reason you belief it is because you are told to believe it, without a shred of evidence) onto someone else. even when its none of your bussiness.
When you claim something to be the truth, you need to bring evidence, and a simple book of 2000 years old is not going to cut it.
I wasn't going to reply to this until I read you claiming that the BIble says that the Earth is flat...no it doesn't. You can have your opinions, however absurd I believe them to be...but I won't tolerate you lying about the Bible.
Did Bible Writers believe the earth was flat?
No—this false idea is not taught in Scripture!
In the Old Testament, Job 26:7 explains that the earth is suspended in space—the obvious comparison being with the spherical sun and moon. By 150 B.C., the Greek astronomer Eratosthenes had already measured the 25,000-mile circumference of the earth. The round shape of our planet was a conclusion easily drawn by watching ships disappear over the horizon and also by observing eclipse shadows, and we can assume that such information was well known to New Testament writers. Earth's spherical shape was, of course, also understood by Christopher Columbus. Some people may have thought the earth was flat, but certainly not the great explorers. Some Bible critics have claimed that Revelation 7:1 assumes a flat earth since the verse refers to angels standing at the "four corners" of the earth. Actually, the reference is to the cardinal directions: north, south, east, and west. Similar terminology is often used today when we speak of the sun's rising and setting, even though the earth, not the sun, is doing the moving. Bible writers used the "language of appearance," just as people always have. Without it, the intended message would be awkward at best and probably not understood clearly. When the Bible touches on scientific subjects, it is entirely accurate.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
You're misquoting him. He said homosexuality is an abomination - not homosexuals. Hate the sin, love the sinner and all that... Being black is something you are, not something you do, so I don't think that's a reasonable comparison (I'm giving Keeperof Keb the benefit of the doubt that he's referring to a homosexual acting and not just being).
You're quite right though, we have no reference of Jesus talking about homosexuality at all, but He hammered on a lot with the "don't judge" and "love your neighbour" a fair bit.
your absolutely right eggftegg the act of homosexuality is an abomination. amazing how people want to twist my words. What is really happening here is more than what homosexuals experience, some people in this discussion forum call me a homosexual racist and say that my beliefs are wrong to impose on the gay population being a hatemonger and spreading hate, but the truth is in this discussion already people have expressed their hatred against christianity it has become a stench to the world, any attempt to bring God into any conversation is treated with active aggression against the faith. I don't hate anyone but love all praying and hoping that people will know the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ for it is far better than anything the world has to offer. God throughout the ages has been an activist against all forms of sin, but also greatly giving grace and mercy to those who turn from the error of their ways to live a life of honor and dignity and walking in the truth and love that God will give freely to all those that want it. this will be my last posting on this topic.
KeeperofKeb
Saying "He said homosexuality is an abomination, not homosexuals!" is probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard in my life. A person is a homosexual because their sexual orientation is homosexuality. The fact that they are a homosexual is dependant on their acting out of sexual acts with a member of the same sex. So by saying that homosexuality is an abomination, he is saying that homosexuals are an abomination since the only thing identifying them as homosexuals is their homosexuality.
To clarify: a homosexual is someone who engages in homosexual activity. To say "I dont hate homosexuals, I hate homosexual activity" is like saying "I dont hate teachers, I just hate people teaching!"
And KeeperofKeb, I am not acting aggressively towards Christianity which you would've realized if you used that brain God gave you and read my posts. You would see that I am speaking aggressively towards those who pervert the religion, like yourself, not people who try to live their lives according to the words of Jesus Christ. You obviously have not read the teachings of Jesus Christ because he teaches love, acceptance, patience etc which are not values that people of your kind possess. You follow a twisted form of Christianity which has more of Satan in it than of God.
Your words towards homosexuals are so wrathful, so why not take the advice of Jesus, and if your tongue causes you to sin... why not rip it out?
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Thanks. Thats sort of what I thought, but I understand it a little clearer.
My position is this:
I'm agnostic, but my side that says that there is the possibility of a God would like to believe that God is a bit less restrictive than as versed in other religions. I'm by no means a Christian in any religious beliefs I might have, but lots of things in the good book make sense. However, I think that most of the rules God sent down were first and foremost for the safety of his creation, and not in any way meant to be held against someone eternally. However, us humans seem to disreguard most rules if they don't have consequences, and what bigger consequence is there but eternal damnation?
Basically, I think that if a God exists, he is quite a bit more benevolent than depected in any religion. I figure if he is a supreme being, he understands all the temptations and problems with modern-day faith. He, above all, should be accepting and forgiving towards the things he created. Of course, this could almost be attributed to wishful thinking, but I figure a supreme being has a lot of time to think about these things, and this is the only logical conclusion I can come to in only a couple of years of thinking about it. Still, he probably knows a lot I don't.
Still, thanks for the reply, I'm glad for the information (especially the part about Homosexuals being elegible for forgivness and such, I had always thought that that type of thing was supposed to be unforgiveable, you learn something new everyday).
We barely remember who or what came before this precious moment;
We are choosing to be here right now -Tool, Parabola
Are (biblical) creationists ‘cornered’?—a response to Dr J.P. Moreland (The Bible talks of ‘the four corners of the earth’. Does this mean the days of creation could be non-literal, too?) ‘Pillars of the Earth’ — Does the Bible teach a mythological cosmology?
What Shape is the Earth In? An Evaluation of Biblical Cosmology (Tekton Apologetics Ministries)
Is the ’erets (earth) flat? Equivocal language in the geography of Genesis 1 and the Old Testament: a response to professing evangelical Paul Seely (Semi-technical)
Seely’s response to above, plus author’s reply
Who Invented the Flat Earth? (Flat earth myth revisited)
Creation and the Flat Earth (Dr Danny Faukner, Creation Matters, 1997)
Is Earth Really Round? (ICR Dr. John’s Q&A article)
Not that you'll really read any of this, but just to cover my bases...here you go Gameloading, now you can stop perpetuating your misconceptions!
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.ah yes, the good old excuse that we should not take it "Litteral". When the Bible is wrong, it is a "Metaphor" haha. Note that not ONE of those links brings hard evidence that the examples I gave have a diffrent meaning then what is clearly written. we only have some "Theories".
But lets look at creationists most favorite counter arguement.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22
A circle is not a ball ,sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is FLAT.
Isaiah could have meant two things:
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
next your going to try to disprove the biblic claim that the sun moves around the earth. Or is that a "metaphor" as well?
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.ah yes, the good old excuse that we should not take it "Litteral". When the Bible is wrong, it is a "Metaphor" haha. Note that not ONE of those links brings hard evidence that the examples I gave have a diffrent meaning then what is clearly written. we only have some "Theories".
But lets look at creationists most favorite counter arguement.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22
A circle is not a ball ,sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is FLAT.
Isaiah could have meant two things:
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
next your going to try to disprove the biblic claim that the sun moves around the earth. Or is that a "metaphor" as well?
Astronomers refer to pictures of planets as the "disk of the planet" Does the Bible not get that same privelage? Also, you refered to the part of the Bible that refers to the four corners of the world(refering to the four cardinal directions) does a circle have edges? Of course not...You were proven wrong so you went to the next most convenient argument, cute.
You can purposefully misinterpret it all that you wish, anyone who is reading it without the expressed purpose of trying to find something wrong with it isn't going to interpret "to the end of the world" as the Bible saying that the Earth is flat...the next Pirates of the Carribean movie is called "at world's end" that doesn't mean that the writers believe that the world is flat.
The notion that the Earth is flat was a product of the Dark Ages, astronomers have known for millenia that the Earth is not flat.
also: yay for you ignoring the post that I made with half a dozen links to answers to the questions that you are posing. I don't know why I bother debating you sometimes Gameloading, you never let logic and reason get a foothold, you simple stick to your atheist guns and don't let go no matter who is telling you a different story. You have biblical scholars telling you otherwise, yet you think you know better, that's a level of arrogance that I can't even fathom.
Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.
And so forth, all good.
Why do people hate bestiality?
I CREATED MYSELF!
"<Claus|Dev> i r pk"
SW:TOR|War40K:DMO|GW2
Never give up and never surrender!
I should ask... why did beastiality (or zoophilia... I think that is an entertaining term for banging animals) come up anyway?
Yes it does.
Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH.
Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit.
Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
"that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it? (From the NIV Bible, Job 38:13)"
"He unleashes his lightning beneath the whole heaven and sends it to the ends of the earth. (From the NIV Bible, Job 37:3)"
"for he views the ends of the earth and sees everything under the heavens. (From the NIV Bible, Job 28:24)"
"Their measure is longer than the earth and wider than the sea. (From the NIV Bible, Job 11:9)"
Just like bibles also like to claim the earth can never be moved.
"He set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 104:5)"
"The LORD reigns, he is robed in majesty; the LORD is robed in majesty and is armed with strength. The world [The deceiving translators should've said "earth", not "world"] is firmly established; it cannot be moved. (From the NIV Bible, Psalm 93:1)"
"The sun rises and the sun sets, and hurries back to where it rises. (From the NIV Bible, Ecclesiastes 1:5)"
Already refuted above.ah yes, the good old excuse that we should not take it "Litteral". When the Bible is wrong, it is a "Metaphor" haha. Note that not ONE of those links brings hard evidence that the examples I gave have a diffrent meaning then what is clearly written. we only have some "Theories".
But lets look at creationists most favorite counter arguement.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Isaiah 40:22
A circle is not a ball ,sphere or an egg-shaped object. A circle is FLAT.
Isaiah could have meant two things:
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth is a flat circle.
Isaiah is claiming that the Earth has a circle above it.
next your going to try to disprove the biblic claim that the sun moves around the earth. Or is that a "metaphor" as well?
Astronomers refer to pictures of planets as the "disk of the planet" Does the Bible not get that same privelage? Also, you refered to the part of the Bible that refers to the four corners of the world(refering to the four cardinal directions) does a circle have edges? Of course not...You were proven wrong so you went to the next most convenient argument, cute.
Actually I was not proven wrong at all. What, you think a few christians comming up with theories actually qualifies as proven wrong? Then you are deeply mistaken. The Bible clearly points at a flat earth, and you can jump up and down and from left to right, but only desperate christians come up with excuses for the things that are clearly stated in the bible.
I gave you two examples as to why the bible is wrong (of which one you simply ignored because you REALLY need a lot of imagination to come up with the "misinterpret" for that) and you give me few articles saying "nonono! this is what they meant! don't take it literal! don't take it literal!"? please.
You can purposefully misinterpret it all that you wish, anyone who is reading it without the expressed purpose of trying to find something wrong with it isn't going to interpret "to the end of the world" as the Bible saying that the Earth is flat...the next Pirates of the Carribean movie is called "at world's end" that doesn't mean that the writers believe that the world is flat.
Like these people.
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society
The notion that the Earth is flat was a product of the Dark Ages, astronomers have known for millenia that the Earth is not flat.
en links to answers to the questions that you are posing. I don't know why I bother debating you sometimes Gameloading, you never let logic and reason get a foothold, you simple stick to your atheist guns and don't let go no matter who is telling you a different story. You have biblical scholars telling you otherwise, yet you think you know better, that's a level of arrogance that I can't even fathom.
Thats deep irony right there. you doing the exact same thing, so its pointless to point the finger at me. You of all people shouldn't even use the word "logic".
But I agree with you somewhat, I don't even know why we are still debating over things like this, all these debates turn into a "who can post the most website links" anyway, and after..what, 6 months of arguing about religion, evolution, creationism, big bang theory and whatnot, we're still right where we left off, neither of us is going to convince the other. I'm going to back out of this subject all together, Its really starting to get tiresome, and above all, repetive.
I will have to say that most of the scripture that you quoted, Gameloading, seems to be more of figures of speech than literal statements.
If you want to argue things that the Bible states which we clearly know are incorrect you should argue about the creation story. We know that it is false. Anyone who says otherwise is unreasonable and probably have been so heavily indoctrinated that they will not be able to be persuaded (much like Socrates in the Apology).
My mind has changed so much. Yet I'm still acting like I'm the same.