One has to wonder when and where the 150K subscribers are playing.
Assuming an even distribution, there would be approximately 10,000 people per server.
Since the bulk of the players are between levels 1 - 5, then the starting areas would be full
when these subscribers were on.
One would have expected the number of servers to increase to accomodate that number of
people.
One must conclude that these subscribers are paying and not playing since the impact of so
many players being online is not seen.
One can only wonder how long 150K players will continue to pay for a game they aren't playing.
One should know that it's 150,000 'registered users', not 'active' subscribers.
So one could reason that the massive low level character population, low server population and empty starting areas (the latter two facts Brad confirms himself) is due to a bulk of those 'registered users' not paying at all.
One has to wonder when and where the 150K subscribers are playing.
Assuming an even distribution, there would be approximately 10,000 people per server.
Since the bulk of the players are between levels 1 - 5, then the starting areas would be full
when these subscribers were on.
One would have expected the number of servers to increase to accomodate that number of
people.
One must conclude that these subscribers are paying and not playing since the impact of so
many players being online is not seen.
One can only wonder how long 150K players will continue to pay for a game they aren't playing.
One should know that it's 150,000 'registered users', not 'active' subscribers.
So one could reason that the massive low level character population, low server population and empty starting areas (the latter two facts Brad confirms himself) is due to a bulk of those 'registered users' not paying at all.Agreed. We keep seeing references to 150K subscribers and not registered users.
The point here is to point out that if there were really 150K subscribers, the impact of those subscribers
would be apparent unless they were paying and not playing.
Originally posted by Shoal Originally posted by Tacola I really have a hard time when reading Brad's statements and seeing populations online, reading people's doomed forcast for VG. With all the bugs and issues in the first month, I think it is a compliment to the gameplay that it has held so many subs and from what I have seen online, VG is doing pretty good. Lots of adventures, crafting, diplomates and harvester. This game is really going to be a force in the MMO world if it stays the coarse. Even with trolls running roughshot all over the VG forums, RAR
You believe all the BS that SoE and Brad are feeding out related to Sub numbers and Current server Pops? Here, I'll save you the trouble : Shoal == Troll Tacola == VanBoi
Exactly. I remember SOE declaring that EQ2 big server mergers were done so because of the great success of EQ2 in the MMO market !
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
You need to read what Brad says very carefully - and then look at the number of characterswho are level 10 and up. Currently there are 179k for all the people who have ever created an account. Current subscribers, past subscribers, people who used buddy keys and decided not to subscribe and maybe one or two people who have gotten a second character to level 10. There are only 81k at level 15 and up as well so there should be lots and lots of grouping options ....
Just look at the numbers as mentioned, read Brad's words and don't read more into Brad's words than he is saying.
This thread is all about subscriptions too, but scroll down and you'll see that he responded with 'registered users'.
Are you not inclined to believe the 150k figure he gave in the thread you linked me to, means registered users as well? I mean in one instance of him responding to a thread about subscriptions, he's said 150k registered users, in another he's said just 150k. You're saying it's more reasonable to believe in a week in a half, they've not only reached 150k registered users, they've maintained a 100% retention rate?
I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I'm being quite logical in the absence of Brad outright saying anything different.
I think if you want to draw any conclusions from that post then the best indicator is the "The game is doing close in terms of growth to what EQ 1 did." check sites like mmorpgchart.com for how EQ1 did in the first 6 months etc (or search for some old interviews from people associated with EQ1at that time if you don't consider mmorpgchart a valid source). I'm sure there will be some updates from people with the actual numbers if there is a big increase in the numbers or growth rate.
This thread is all about subscriptions too, but scroll down and you'll see that he responded with 'registered users'.
Are you not inclined to believe the 150k figure he gave in the thread you linked me to, means registered users as well? I mean in one instance of him responding to a thread about subscriptions, he's said 150k registered users, in another he's said just 150k. You're saying it's more reasonable to believe in a week in a half, they've not only reached 150k registered users, they've maintained a 100% retention rate?
I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I'm being quite logical in the absence of Brad outright saying anything different.
I think if you want to draw any conclusions from that post then the best indicator is the "The game is doing close in terms of growth to what EQ 1 did." check sites like mmorpgchart.com for how EQ1 did in the first 6 months etc (or search for some old interviews from people associated with EQ1at that time if you don't consider mmorpgchart a valid source). I'm sure there will be some updates from people with the actual numbers if there is a big increase in the numbers or growth rate. If you go by mmogchart.com, which some people here like to openly dispute, EQ1 didn't reach 150k subscribers until 6-8 months after release, and was still below or around 50k active subscribers two months after release.
This thread is all about subscriptions too, but scroll down and you'll see that he responded with 'registered users'.
Are you not inclined to believe the 150k figure he gave in the thread you linked me to, means registered users as well? I mean in one instance of him responding to a thread about subscriptions, he's said 150k registered users, in another he's said just 150k. You're saying it's more reasonable to believe in a week in a half, they've not only reached 150k registered users, they've maintained a 100% retention rate?
I don't think I'm being unreasonable. I'm being quite logical in the absence of Brad outright saying anything different.
I think if you want to draw any conclusions from that post then the best indicator is the "The game is doing close in terms of growth to what EQ 1 did." check sites like mmorpgchart.com for how EQ1 did in the first 6 months etc (or search for some old interviews from people associated with EQ1at that time if you don't consider mmorpgchart a valid source). I'm sure there will be some updates from people with the actual numbers if there is a big increase in the numbers or growth rate. If you go by mmogchart.com, which some people here like to openly dispute, EQ1 didn't reach 150k subscribers until 6-8 months after release, and was still below or around 50k active subscribers two months after release. Not to mention that the market for mmorpgs back then was significantly smaller than what we have today. Back then most of the people that play these things anymore weren't even out of elementary school lol. reaching 150k subscribers back then was a feat. Today 150k subscribers is a drop in the bucket, hell doesnt SOE still try to state that there are 100k+ subscribers in star wars galaxies?
Everquest 1 cost how much to make? 500k? maybe a million dollars? and took what? 2.5 years to produce? Vanguard on the other hand took 30million to make + interest and new costs accrued after the switch from msgs to soe, took 5 or 6 years of development time. The numbers required for vanguard to be as successful as EQ1 was are quite a bit heftier.
Also some of the "resubscriptions" from this past month, were people like me. Ones who got scammed into thinking getting the Collector's Edition you get 3 free months. Go ahead, say its "our fault that people should read into what station pass is." Not everyone is going to go into a store, see the game, read the box, and say hmm lets see what this 3 months free of station pass is before i buy it. Then go home and look at the webpage, where it says nothing about it. Now go ahead again, say "hey you should of read up on the forums what it is." Ok, do u think everyone knows what forums even are for all the regular average people or kids who go into a store and just look at the box and say hey this game looks cool!! OR even if they know what forums are, which ones should they go to to read what station pass is?? Ok so now, again, all you brad lovers are going to say... "Well cmon, do the damn math, game costs 50, you get CE for 90, so if u get 3 free months basically they would be losing money (3+15 a month = 45)!!!!! OMG!!!! PLUs THEY GAVE YOU that special box! the map! and the items!!! cmon man their not that stupid they have to make money!!! so do they math!!! Those 3 free months of station pass isnt gameplay, god, use your head" Ok, so what, even if they did make it free 3 months of actual gameplay, they wouldnt be LOSING money. Think about it, ya it becomes a little cheaper but atleast they have u tied into the game for atleast 3 months! So your telling me they would rather have some people get the game for 50, quit after first month cause its buggy, then have someone pay 90, who pays more ahead of time and so that they get to play 3 months AFTER RELEASE, when theres LESS BUGS, MORE FIXES ETC?!?! Doesnt actually making them pay more and give them more free time ahead of time make more sense? And no, im not a troll or a vangaurd hater, i actually liked the game. But when i got billed after the second month and found out what the 3 free months was for, i cancelled right there and then. And the funny part about what i have just said was that i had this pre ordered months ago, and i went in to pick it up and saw they had the CE edition so i read the box and saw 3 free months of station pass, so i figured what the hell it saves me 5 bucks and i get a cool map and box. YAY! Im so upset by this that this month i got billed i havent even played because this has really made me sick to my stomach. Im a manager at Circuit City, so when people ask what games i recommend, which actually gets asked very very much, i will never recommend this game to anyone. And thats including all the other people i work with who i begged to quit WoW to play this AWESOME game I have told them not to get it. So go ahead say im only one person i cant bring down a game omg!!! Ya but i know ive atleast stopped 20-30 people from buying this game. Including people who have had it in there hand at a register. 30x15 = 450 dollars a month ive stopped from sigil. Which also is 5,400 dollars a year. And that number will only rise. Also in which i have informed the Gamestop thats right next door, where i had pre ordered this game what had happened. So those numbers arent even inlcuding when people come into there store and say hey is this game good? In which they will not respond with good things to say. I feel bad for all adults and kids who see this in the store in the future and get suckered like i did
Subscription Name:
Vanguard Subscription
Period:
1 Month
Enabled Features
Collectors Edition 90 Days Free Time
In Game Item: Adventuring Cloak
In Game Item: Guild trophy
In Game Item: Choice: fireworks or horse shoes
In Game Item: Scroll (pre-order retail)
Account Status: Non-Recurring Billing Method or Cancelled*
Orig. Purchase Date: January 26, 2007
Account Open Until: April 5, 2007
Next Billing Date: April 5, 2007
Next Subscription Plan: Vanguard Subscription, 1 Month
LOL even my account states i get 90 days free time, but it doesnt even say what KIND of free time. Once again, one would ASSUME FREE PLAY?????????? A-Fudging-mazing This seriously is a joke now, how can anyone take Sigil seriously anymore.
Also some of the "resubscriptions" from this past month, were people like me. Ones who got scammed into thinking getting the Collector's Edition you get 3 free months. Im a manager at Circuit City, so when people ask what games i recommend, which actually gets asked very very much, i will never recommend this game to anyone. I feel bad for all adults and kids who see this in the store in the future and get suckered like i did
This reminds me of a very wise recent quote from Mark Jacobs from EA Mythic on another MMO site
"- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers"
What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc.
I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
I'd like to add another question: "Why would players dedicate themselves to keeping alive a game where the developers and publisher, on a consistent basis, crap all over them?"
There is an old bit from the creator of Transactual Analysis (Eric Berne): People who want to be crapped on hook up with people who want to crap on them.
I really have a hard time when reading Brad's statements and seeing populations online, reading people's doomed forcast for VG. With all the bugs and issues in the first month, I think it is a compliment to the gameplay that it has held so many subs and from what I have seen online, VG is doing pretty good. Lots of adventures, crafting, diplomates and harvester. This game is really going to be a force in the MMO world if it stays the coarse. Even with trolls running roughshot all over the VG forums, RAR
Not meaning to sound sarcastic or anything, but what course are they staying? The game is changing drastically with each new patch. Some is for the good, some not. It's obvious to me though that Brad's original vision for the game is quickly giving way to the need to up subscriptions and hang on to accounts. In two months, xp has been adjusted up multiple times, we've had 2 double xp weekends, teleporters, etc, etc. So, when you talk about staying the course, are you referring to the stream of changes that make the game easier day by day or the original vision Sigil had for the game?
No matter what his vision is, he has to answer to somebody and the person that pays him truly has the final say in things. He may want to do one thing, and they may be telling him to do another, we are not there, we have no insider information, we have no clue what is going on.
No matter what his vision is, he has to answer to somebody and the person that pays him truly has the final say in things. He may want to do one thing, and they may be telling him to do another, we are not there, we have no insider information, we have no clue what is going on.
Ultimately, he'd answer to the subscribers. They are the ones who are paying him, and if he's listening to anyone, I would hope it would be them.
Comments
wrong thread
I miss DAoC
Assuming an even distribution, there would be approximately 10,000 people per server.
Since the bulk of the players are between levels 1 - 5, then the starting areas would be full
when these subscribers were on.
One would have expected the number of servers to increase to accomodate that number of
people.
One must conclude that these subscribers are paying and not playing since the impact of so
many players being online is not seen.
One can only wonder how long 150K players will continue to pay for a game they aren't playing.
So one could reason that the massive low level character population, low server population and empty starting areas (the latter two facts Brad confirms himself) is due to a bulk of those 'registered users' not paying at all.
So one could reason that the massive low level character population, low server population and empty starting areas (the latter two facts Brad confirms himself) is due to a bulk of those 'registered users' not paying at all.Agreed. We keep seeing references to 150K subscribers and not registered users.
The point here is to point out that if there were really 150K subscribers, the impact of those subscribers
would be apparent unless they were paying and not playing.
You believe all the BS that SoE and Brad are feeding out related to Sub numbers and Current server Pops?
Here, I'll save you the trouble :
Shoal == Troll
Tacola == VanBoi
Exactly. I remember SOE declaring that EQ2 big server mergers were done so because of the great success of EQ2 in the MMO market !
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
If you do not believe the #'s then why not just ignore this topic?
You need to read what Brad says very carefully - and then look at the number of characterswho are level 10 and up. Currently there are 179k for all the people who have ever created an account. Current subscribers, past subscribers, people who used buddy keys and decided not to subscribe and maybe one or two people who have gotten a second character to level 10. There are only 81k at level 15 and up as well so there should be lots and lots of grouping options ....
Just look at the numbers as mentioned, read Brad's words and don't read more into Brad's words than he is saying.
Everquest 1 cost how much to make? 500k? maybe a million dollars? and took what? 2.5 years to produce? Vanguard on the other hand took 30million to make + interest and new costs accrued after the switch from msgs to soe, took 5 or 6 years of development time. The numbers required for vanguard to be as successful as EQ1 was are quite a bit heftier.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012
Account Status:
Non-Recurring Billing Method or Cancelled*
Orig. Purchase Date:
January 26, 2007
Account Open Until:
April 5, 2007
Next Billing Date:
April 5, 2007
Next Subscription Plan:
Vanguard Subscription, 1 Month
LOL even my account states i get 90 days free time, but it doesnt even say what KIND of free time. Once again, one would ASSUME FREE PLAY?????????? A-Fudging-mazing This seriously is a joke now, how can anyone take Sigil seriously anymore.
This reminds me of a very wise recent quote from Mark Jacobs from EA Mythic on another MMO site
"- one game has never killed another game. WoW did not kill any other game. It hurt other games, but it did not kill it. The only ones that generally kill the games are the developers, or the publishers"
What I see when I read these boards is a group of very dedicated players and a publisher that seems to be doing everything in its power to drive them away through stunts like the CE or pushing out the game early etc.
I guess the question is who will win? The players trying to keep the game alive or the publishers trying to kill it?
There is an old bit from the creator of Transactual Analysis (Eric Berne): People who want to be crapped on hook up with people who want to crap on them.I'd like to add another question: "Why would players dedicate themselves to keeping alive a game where the developers and publisher, on a consistent basis, crap all over them?"
Not meaning to sound sarcastic or anything, but what course are they staying? The game is changing drastically with each new patch. Some is for the good, some not. It's obvious to me though that Brad's original vision for the game is quickly giving way to the need to up subscriptions and hang on to accounts. In two months, xp has been adjusted up multiple times, we've had 2 double xp weekends, teleporters, etc, etc. So, when you talk about staying the course, are you referring to the stream of changes that make the game easier day by day or the original vision Sigil had for the game?