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Interesting If True

TniceTnice Member Posts: 563
in Vanguard: Saga of Heroes

Take this for what it is worth but interesting nonetheless:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27044-why-all-nerd-rage-against-vanguard-131.html#post691941

 

 

You are really going to throw up the coincidence card here?



You want the timeline? From a VERY trusted source, and no, Ravenn, it isn't a disgruntled ex employee like your friends at sigil have told you. It's someone working there NOW.



Here it is, in a nice easy to read format:



Why doesn't Brad have his own forums? Because he can direct the traffic to fan sites with ad streaming revenue and make money off it if he has a vested interest.



A shitton of Vanguard threads (Some of which now that have been outright deleted) posting about negative experiences of Vanguard were rickshawed.



I posted some relatively VERY tame facts about how the post 35+ game is not even finished yet, with most of it not even coming until mid april when they plan their 2nd art asset patch, because even the art for most of these areas isn't even f**king done yet.



Rav tells me too cool it and stay out of VG threads.



I PM'd her back. Here is what I wrote.




Quote:
WHAT?? You have to be kidding me? The game is a f**king sh**heap that should have never been released. Is this a place where people can state their opinion or is it now a glorified ad site to attract dollars?



This is f**king ridiculous.



Nothing about this game is even worth a damn thread. The 40+ content isn't even IN THE GAME. The bugs are atrocious. You have people here who work for the company saying the game is quality and posing as actual users. How about we shut those retards down and start using this site to bring in quality posters who can express their opinion without some red handed hammer coming down because this place has turned into a glorfied revenue stream.



I just got a PM from a guy who works at Microsoft. Want to read it?



Here it is.



"I've been lurking on this forum for years. Since I work in the games biz I never felt right posting, but it is a great way to gauge the pulse of the MMO hardcore. I was on the MS side of the VG trainwreck and I have to congradulate you for getting to the core issues. So much so, that I think you must work for someone who makes games.



In any event, Sigil couldn't hit a milestone that they defined themselves, let alone one we asked them to hit. And the responsibility for that lays firmly at the feet of the annointed (read Brad for cultivating the "we made EQ so shut the f**k up" culture and Jeff for being a world class enabler and inept project manager).



For 15 years I've made great, successful, critically acclaimed games and I've never encountered a developer more arrogant, dismissive, and incompetent at the same time. Thank god for folks like you who tell it how it is when NDAs prevent those in the know from sharing our insights."



Show that to the powers at be like Tyen the wonder wallet and let me know whats more important.

After this I was banned. I couldn't even access my PM's.



Brad immediately goes on a posting tirade with more fluff than a pile of down comforters stacked 70 miles, all leaking with flat out conjecture, spin, and lies.



I get unbanned.



Brad vanishes.



You, of course and I wouldn't blame you, have a vested interest in traffic here. Developers threatening to pull the plug on posting here, which has been threatened by Rav's friends many times in the past - she has told me about this - (For example, when I would post something under NDA, yet workers for Sigil would break NDA with positive and not take the negative and try to get me banned because they were friends with her). Kudos to her however. Because she told them to stick it.



For a while.



Why did that tune change? At the same time negative VG threads were getting rickshawed, I got banned, McQuaid starts posting en masse, and grassroots was flying around here like mad?



Coincidence my ass.

__________________

Utnayan/Nayantu - Elitist Jerks - Mal'ganis

 

 

Edit: Editing out the "bad" words.
«134

Comments

  • Drea-merDrea-mer Member Posts: 217

    Nothing new, Silky Venom banned like 200 IP adress ranges from people posting something negative lol.

    Sigil didn't want central forums so there wouldn't be any bad press.

  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321

    If the game ( VGSoH)  was as interesting as the drama on it's forums Blizzard would be doing server consolodations. ~passes the popcorn~

    I miss DAoC

  • xAlrythxxAlrythx Member Posts: 585

    Yeah their plan worked no bad press at all

    Now the bad press is spread everywhere much like SWG.

    And the good press is spread around several forums.

    Anyway VG's end will come, there won't be much talk about when there are better things to talk about like games that have a future.

    Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
    Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
    Looking Forward To: SW:TOR

  • healz4uhealz4u Member Posts: 1,065
    It is a fact.  Yes. A fact.  SIGIL, Brad is in an aggressive campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.





    Brad is a greed-head and an incompetent game designer. 





    I was a victim of being banned, in fact . Further, from wikipedia to other sites, there is a campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.  I am not aware of any bias whatsoever at mmorpg.com.





    Edit: I was banned on ton ten hammer, had several posts of Vanguard edited, moved, and removed until I was banned. 
  • TniceTnice Member Posts: 563
    Originally posted by healz4u

    It is a fact.  Yes. A fact.  SIGIL, Brad is in an aggressive campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.





    Brad is a greed-head and an incompetent game designer. 





    I was a victim of being banned, in fact . Further, from wikipedia to other sites, there is a campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.  I am not aware of any bias whatsoever at mmorpg.com.





    Edit: I was banned on ton ten hammer, had several posts of Vanguard edited, moved, and removed until I was banned. 



    It is also interesting that Ten Ton Hammer just went to a "No Negative post" policy for Vanguard.  Post negative stuff over there and it will be deleted or you will be banned.

    http://vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102054715/p1/?143

    As it has been said before, the drama surrounding Vanguard is better than a soap opera.

  • DarwaDarwa Member UncommonPosts: 2,181
    I love the foh forums. Funniest damn thing on the internet.
  • whitedelightwhitedelight Member Posts: 1,544
    *Waits for Brad to throw MMORPG.com some money and then have them agree to no negative Vanguard post policy which results in the amount of active posters here cut in half*

    image

  • whitedelightwhitedelight Member Posts: 1,544
    Forgot to add, forums are for discussion, wether it be good or bad talk, that is what a forum is for, and having a policy like that is kind of ignorant. If you can only say good things about a game it is not a forum any longer.

    image

  • random11random11 Member UncommonPosts: 765
    Yeah, the really funny part is the fanbase part, them doing exactly what brad had hoped for, but in the end, it's the undoing.



    Every review worth a damn stated that the community has serious problems, I mean even Brad himself realized he created a cult of followers, who are as blind as can get.



    In the end, it will all have worth nothing, MS, as money centric as they might be, bailed for a clear reason: they knew this game would die.



    And it should, and this game dying is a good thing for the industry, small price to pay really.
  • random11random11 Member UncommonPosts: 765
    Originally posted by whitedelight

    Forgot to add, forums are for discussion, wether it be good or bad talk, that is what a forum is for, and having a policy like that is kind of ignorant. If you can only say good things about a game it is not a forum any longer.
    Information is the only real power in the world. If you have lots of information, and proper intellect, you can achieve anything really.



    Now holding information back is also a tool, the tool of those who cannot achieve otherwise. The tool of the likes of Brad. See, either your right, and then most people will aknowledge. Brad is not right, in fact he is a liar, and word shall get around.



    Furthermore, almost all other games coming out this year will get more players from the looks of it, and from the information I received from people in betas.
  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    Originally posted by Tnice
    Originally posted by healz4u
    It is a fact. Yes. A fact. SIGIL, Brad is in an aggressive campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.


    Brad is a greed-head and an incompetent game designer.


    I was a victim of being banned, in fact . Further, from wikipedia to other sites, there is a campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard. I am not aware of any bias whatsoever at mmorpg.com.


    Edit: I was banned on ton ten hammer, had several posts of Vanguard edited, moved, and removed until I was banned.

    It is also interesting that Ten Ton Hammer just went to a "No Negative post" policy for Vanguard. Post negative stuff over there and it will be deleted or you will be banned.
    http://vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102054715/p1/?143
    As it has been said before, the drama surrounding Vanguard is better than a soap opera.

    Talk about spinning shit.

    1) your link is to the VN boards, not TTH. Though a quick perusal of TTH shows nothing stating that any negative posts about VG will be deleted, and the poster banned.

    Here's the quote from the link you gave though.

    Originally posted by Wargasm
    Hey guys, we all have some issues with the game (what game is perfect?), but I would like to remind you all about game and developer bashing. We are always going to allow criticism, but I would like to reiterate that anything you post here needs to be on topic and constructive. Since Vanguard was released we have given all of you an ample chance to speak your mind, and to express how you feel about both Sony, Sigil, and any changes on these forums.

    Anyway, in a effort to get the board back to those who want to see the game grow and get better, I would ask that all posts be on topic, and that any negative feedback be constructive. Posting things only to bash SOE, the Devs, or the game itself will result in warnings or bans as needed. Remember that no matter what happens this is still a fan site and the fans are our priority, and we need to do all that we can in order to keep the posting environment a fun and positive one. There will be zero tolerance for anyone bashing or flaming someone who is just starting the game and has come here to post. In short if you no longer play the game, or can find nothing nice to say about it anymore, then I would ask that you move on to whatever else it is that interests you. DO NOT litter threads asking questions about something in game with your rants about why you feel vanguard sucks.

    I would also add that we do not need everyone who quits the game to post a Good Bye/rant thread. It really does no good, and adds nothing to the forum. This goes for giving us weekly updates that you still are not going to be playing the game as well. Please confine Good Bye threads to your server forum if you feel the need to post one.

    Thanks for reading,

    I colored the pertinent paragraph real pretty. Try reading it again, and tell me how, exactly that says any negative post will be deleted, and the poster banned.

    Here's a hint: the words you're looking for are constructive, and criticism.

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,088
    Well, I'm hoping MMORPG doesn't sell out like apparently  many other forums have... and try to supress negative posting.....



    Sure, excessive bashing w/o making any valid points I understand.... but banning just because you are making negative comments and no longer play the game.... silly, just silly....



    VN Boards mods seemed pretty heavy handed...but I always did hate those forums from my DAOC days...

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • TniceTnice Member Posts: 563
    Originally posted by Coldmeat


     

    Originally posted by Tnice


    Originally posted by healz4u

    It is a fact. Yes. A fact. SIGIL, Brad is in an aggressive campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.
     


    Brad is a greed-head and an incompetent game designer.


    I was a victim of being banned, in fact . Further, from wikipedia to other sites, there is a campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard. I am not aware of any bias whatsoever at mmorpg.com.


    Edit: I was banned on ton ten hammer, had several posts of Vanguard edited, moved, and removed until I was banned.
    It is also interesting that Ten Ton Hammer just went to a "No Negative post" policy for Vanguard. Post negative stuff over there and it will be deleted or you will be banned.

    http://vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102054715/p1/?143

    As it has been said before, the drama surrounding Vanguard is better than a soap opera.

     

    Talk about spinning shit.

    1) your link is to the VN boards, not TTH. Though a quick perusal of TTH shows nothing stating that any negative posts about VG will be deleted, and the poster banned.

    Here's the quote from the link you gave though.

    Originally posted by Wargasm

    Hey guys, we all have some issues with the game (what game is perfect?), but I would like to remind you all about game and developer bashing. We are always going to allow criticism, but I would like to reiterate that anything you post here needs to be on topic and constructive. Since Vanguard was released we have given all of you an ample chance to speak your mind, and to express how you feel about both Sony, Sigil, and any changes on these forums.

    Anyway, in a effort to get the board back to those who want to see the game grow and get better, I would ask that all posts be on topic, and that any negative feedback be constructive. Posting things only to bash SOE, the Devs, or the game itself will result in warnings or bans as needed. Remember that no matter what happens this is still a fan site and the fans are our priority, and we need to do all that we can in order to keep the posting environment a fun and positive one. There will be zero tolerance for anyone bashing or flaming someone who is just starting the game and has come here to post. In short if you no longer play the game, or can find nothing nice to say about it anymore, then I would ask that you move on to whatever else it is that interests you. DO NOT litter threads asking questions about something in game with your rants about why you feel vanguard sucks.

    I would also add that we do not need everyone who quits the game to post a Good Bye/rant thread. It really does no good, and adds nothing to the forum. This goes for giving us weekly updates that you still are not going to be playing the game as well. Please confine Good Bye threads to your server forum if you feel the need to post one.

    Thanks for reading,

     

    I colored the pertinent paragraph real pretty. Try reading it again, and tell me how, exactly that says any negative post will be deleted, and the poster banned.

    Here's a hint: the words you're looking for are constructive, and criticism.

     

    My bad.  Wrong board.   I don't frequent those boards.  My buddy IM'ed it to me.

  • whitedelightwhitedelight Member Posts: 1,544
    Originally posted by Coldmeat


     

    Originally posted by Tnice


    Originally posted by healz4u

    It is a fact. Yes. A fact. SIGIL, Brad is in an aggressive campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.
     


    Brad is a greed-head and an incompetent game designer.


    I was a victim of being banned, in fact . Further, from wikipedia to other sites, there is a campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard. I am not aware of any bias whatsoever at mmorpg.com.


    Edit: I was banned on ton ten hammer, had several posts of Vanguard edited, moved, and removed until I was banned.
    It is also interesting that Ten Ton Hammer just went to a "No Negative post" policy for Vanguard. Post negative stuff over there and it will be deleted or you will be banned.

    http://vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102054715/p1/?143

    As it has been said before, the drama surrounding Vanguard is better than a soap opera.

     

    Talk about spinning shit.

    1) your link is to the VN boards, not TTH. Though a quick perusal of TTH shows nothing stating that any negative posts about VG will be deleted, and the poster banned.

    Here's the quote from the link you gave though.

    Originally posted by Wargasm

    Hey guys, we all have some issues with the game (what game is perfect?), but I would like to remind you all about game and developer bashing. We are always going to allow criticism, but I would like to reiterate that anything you post here needs to be on topic and constructive. Since Vanguard was released we have given all of you an ample chance to speak your mind, and to express how you feel about both Sony, Sigil, and any changes on these forums.

    Anyway, in a effort to get the board back to those who want to see the game grow and get better, I would ask that all posts be on topic, and that any negative feedback be constructive. Posting things only to bash SOE, the Devs, or the game itself will result in warnings or bans as needed. Remember that no matter what happens this is still a fan site and the fans are our priority, and we need to do all that we can in order to keep the posting environment a fun and positive one. There will be zero tolerance for anyone bashing or flaming someone who is just starting the game and has come here to post. In short if you no longer play the game, or can find nothing nice to say about it anymore, then I would ask that you move on to whatever else it is that interests you. DO NOT litter threads asking questions about something in game with your rants about why you feel vanguard sucks.

    I would also add that we do not need everyone who quits the game to post a Good Bye/rant thread. It really does no good, and adds nothing to the forum. This goes for giving us weekly updates that you still are not going to be playing the game as well. Please confine Good Bye threads to your server forum if you feel the need to post one.

    Thanks for reading,

     

    I colored the pertinent paragraph real pretty. Try reading it again, and tell me how, exactly that says any negative post will be deleted, and the poster banned.

    Here's a hint: the words you're looking for are constructive, and criticism.



    See though, most posts are just negative, and are not constructive. Hell, I have seen some of your posts that are borderline just negative. I am sure they would not ban you if you came up with real things, but for people who say "Vanguard sucks because" and just list a bunch of joke reasons, you will be banned.

    It is not the point though, I do not think that a forum should be policed like that to the point that you may want to say something yet you are too scared to post because they may interpret things a different way than you typed it, and now you are banned and may never post there again. Over on the Darkfall forums I got banned for asking the question "A lot of people on other forums claim this is vaporware, is there any proof that you can provide that it isn't for all the naysayers out there?

    Yeah, I was banned for that...I do not want to see this forum turn into the same thinf.

    image

  • random11random11 Member UncommonPosts: 765
    Oh, but to think these boards are unaffected would be childish. These boards are not bought and payed for, but every time a new thread starts about whether the game is good or not, and whether someone should go and buy, loads of people pop up and say these boards are filled with haters and thus should not be trusted. Now that is viral marketing (or consequence) in action right there!
  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    Originally posted by Tnice
    My bad. Wrong board. I don't frequent those boards. My buddy IM'ed it to me.

    Holy shit! Someone that admits to a mistake on the MMORPG.com Vanguard forum. A monumental occasion for both sides of the war, folks.

    Just messing with you, btw. Kudos for at least admitting to the goof.

    My point still stands though, the only mention of bans/deletions I see in the official forum rules are for people that are obviously trolling, posting personal attacks, etc. At least as far as VN, and TTH. Haven't gotten around to SV's forum guidelines, but from the time I spent there in the past, unless there was some great upheaval in the mods there, they didn't delete constructive criticism, just mindless bash posts. Personally, I'm all for that. Starting a thread that just says VG sux, with no reasoning behind why you felt that it was bad is a waste of bandwidth for the forum, and just ends up being a complete flamefest.

    FOHguild.org is a different story, as they're not an affiliate, they're just a private guild board where many devs, including McQuaid happen to post due to their long relationship from back in the EQ days. I will say that things have really gone in the crapper there, though, since Furor stepped down when he got the job at Blizzard.

  • whitedelightwhitedelight Member Posts: 1,544
    Lol, I just admit I was wrong about something in the 150k - 1 topic.

    image

  • TniceTnice Member Posts: 563
    Originally posted by Coldmeat


     

    Originally posted by Tnice

    My bad. Wrong board. I don't frequent those boards. My buddy IM'ed it to me.


     

    Holy shit! Someone that admits to a mistake on the MMORPG.com Vanguard forum. A monumental occasion for both sides of the war, folks.

    Just messing with you, btw. Kudos for at least admitting to the goof.

    My point still stands though, the only mention of bans/deletions I see in the official forum rules are for people that are obviously trolling, posting personal attacks, etc. At least as far as VN, and TTH. Haven't gotten around to SV's forum guidelines, but from the time I spent there in the past, unless there was some great upheaval in the mods there, they didn't delete constructive criticism, just mindless bash posts. Personally, I'm all for that. Starting a thread that just says VG sux, with no reasoning behind why you felt that it was bad is a waste of bandwidth for the forum, and just ends up being a complete flamefest.

    FOHguild.org is a different story, as they're not an affiliate, they're just a private guild board where many devs, including McQuaid happen to post due to their long relationship from back in the EQ days. I will say that things have really gone in the crapper there, though, since Furor stepped down when he got the job at Blizzard.

    I gotca man.  You are ok in my book.

  • SlampigSlampig Member UncommonPosts: 2,342
    Go to work....and clean up those potty fingers...

    That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  • ZarthaineZarthaine Member Posts: 62
    Want easy proof?  Go to the "Official Forums" where for the past few days posts that are negative in nature get quickly responded to and locked with "This is not a discussion board" while any posts that have nothing to do with Tech Support that praise the game are allowed to stay.  If your hear to point out bugs that have you unhappy, go away.  If on the other hand you wish to come to a Tech Forum and tell us how well your game is running on a 5 year old barely able to play pong system, please fee free to do so.
  • ShadrakShadrak Member Posts: 375

     brad and david bowman should get together and make a MMO..would be the BEST GAME EVER im sure.

    brad clearly stated that he/sigil were going to use "viral means" to combat the negative press VG has been getting. You know that sisgil has shills on just about ever mmo forum site. heck most mmo's do. WoW being one of the biggest users of this method of community nudging/control. No big supprise to me from any of this.

     

    Shill


    1. a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc.
    2. a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.
  • JackdogJackdog Member UncommonPosts: 6,321
    I don't think anyone here will ever accuse me of being a Vanguard fan boy, and after reading those posts in the FOH and checking out the TTH forums I can't see any conspiracies here. In fact that dude over at FOH really needs to go for a walk and get some fresh air in my opinion.

    I miss DAoC

  • random11random11 Member UncommonPosts: 765
    Yeah, but not even this can save VG. EQ was a unavoidable evolution of the genre, requiring only an average developer, whilst in this new age of MMOs, only the really good shall thrive ... or at least work off a 30m budget.



    Brad gets what he deserves. K thnx bye Brad, glad you will be soon gone.
  • ColdmeatColdmeat Member UncommonPosts: 3,409

    Originally posted by whitedelight
    Hell, I have seen some of your posts that are borderline just negative. I am sure they would not ban you if you came up with real things, but for people who say "Vanguard sucks because" and just list a bunch of joke reasons, you will be banned.
    It is not the point though, I do not think that a forum should be policed like that to the point that you may want to say something yet you are too scared to post because they may interpret things a different way than you typed it, and now you are banned and may never post there again. Over on the Darkfall forums I got banned for asking the question "A lot of people on other forums claim this is vaporware, is there any proof that you can provide that it isn't for all the naysayers out there?
    Yeah, I was banned for that...I do not want to see this forum turn into the same thinf.

    Yeah, I've posted some things I probably shouldn't have, and there's lots of posts I've had written out that I thought better of, and deleted. And sometimes, I'm just feeling snarky. As I see it, there's a difference between getting annoyed here and there, and letting it get to you, and making a career out of just posting useless nonsense meant only to start a fight.

    Other than that, I think we're agreeing.

    I used to post alot on the old Darkfall forums, and there was some really good conversations there back then. Nowadays, from what I can see it's just leftover zombie fanbois that still think the game will ever see daylight.

  • whitedelightwhitedelight Member Posts: 1,544
    Originally posted by Coldmeat


     

    Originally posted by whitedelight

    Hell, I have seen some of your posts that are borderline just negative. I am sure they would not ban you if you came up with real things, but for people who say "Vanguard sucks because" and just list a bunch of joke reasons, you will be banned.

    It is not the point though, I do not think that a forum should be policed like that to the point that you may want to say something yet you are too scared to post because they may interpret things a different way than you typed it, and now you are banned and may never post there again. Over on the Darkfall forums I got banned for asking the question "A lot of people on other forums claim this is vaporware, is there any proof that you can provide that it isn't for all the naysayers out there?

    Yeah, I was banned for that...I do not want to see this forum turn into the same thinf.

     

    Yeah, I've posted some things I probably shouldn't have, and there's lots of posts I've had written out that I thought better of, and deleted. And sometimes, I'm just feeling snarky. As I see it, there's a difference between getting annoyed here and there, and letting it get to you, and making a career out of just posting useless nonsense meant only to start a fight.

    Other than that, I think we're agreeing.

    I used to post alot on the old Darkfall forums, and there was some really good conversations there back then. Nowadays, from what I can see it's just leftover zombie fanbois that still think the game will ever see daylight.

    Agreed, good sir!

    image

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