I'm sorry but something can be truthful and still should not be posted. I can go over to off topic and post "I hate George Bush because he sucks and he went to war and he's republican and stupid." In someone's eyes it might be the truth, but it doesn't belong being posted because A. It is not thought out at all B. Contains no subject matter to discuss C. Has been discussed too many times to count D. Is flamebait for anyone who supports him That is basically what is happening in the Vanguard forum. The same thing is being said over and over again by the same people and it's not even a worthwhile discussion. All it is is "Vanguard sucks!" "I agree lol" "YES VANGUARD IS THE SUCKIEST!!!!1" "but I like Vanguard, it's the bestest" "Stupid fanboy, I bet you work for SOE" "You suck, Vanguard sucks" "Yeah Vanguard sucks lol! Play LOTRO because it is the most awsomest game around because it has hobbits and elves and stuff" Oh and I have followed and beta tested this game for as long as alot of you, so don't try and pull that one on me. I understand that you are pissed that a game that you thought had potential flopped. There is no reason to carry so much baggage and resentment toward something of such little importance and there is definitely no reason to take out your anger on the community since they did not do anything to you. If you are that angry at the development company go bother them, though you might end up with a restraining order.
Your angst balloon has finally exploded! Are you satisfied now? Unfortunately, it will not change anything. If you only would like to hear VG praise and worship, you need to move to a Vansite. Good luck!
Obviously you don't understand what I am saying. There is a difference between discussing the bad qualities of a game and pointless flaming. Though you'll never understand and will continue with your tirade. Good luck with that! Hopefully it will change something or maybe make you feel better or whatever. Either way I hope you find what you are really looking from all of it.
By the way I neither like nor play Vanguard, I just don't see any point in trolling forums all day.
Also since you are done responding to my post and have lowered yourself to insults I am done with this conversation.
So long
Coldmeat: If you have read through the rules and policies you'd notice most of these threads don't follow the guidelines as listed on MMORPG.com
Countless duplicate posts flood the forum along with insults and harrasement as defined by the MMORPG.com's policies. It seems to me they have either given up on trying to moderate this forum or they just don't care. Either way that is no reason to act that way.
Once again if you read my above post I neither care for or play Vanguard. I only posted this because it seems the same people move from new game to new game flooding its forums with the same crap. Then they all find a game which in my opinion is just as horrible if not worse then the ones they hate (i.e. LOTRO) and praise it to no end attacking anyone who has anything else to say. A bit hypocritical if you ask me.
I'm sorry but something can be truthful and still should not be posted. I can go over to off topic and post "I hate George Bush because he sucks and he went to war and he's republican and stupid." In someone's eyes it might be the truth, but it doesn't belong being posted because A. It is not thought out at all B. Contains no subject matter to discuss C. Has been discussed too many times to count D. Is flamebait for anyone who supports him That is basically what is happening in the Vanguard forum. The same thing is being said over and over again by the same people and it's not even a worthwhile discussion. All it is is "Vanguard sucks!" "I agree lol" "YES VANGUARD IS THE SUCKIEST!!!!1" "but I like Vanguard, it's the bestest" "Stupid fanboy, I bet you work for SOE" "You suck, Vanguard sucks" "Yeah Vanguard sucks lol! Play LOTRO because it is the most awsomest game around because it has hobbits and elves and stuff" Oh and I have followed and beta tested this game for as long as alot of you, so don't try and pull that one on me. I understand that you are pissed that a game that you thought had potential flopped. There is no reason to carry so much baggage and resentment toward something of such little importance and there is definitely no reason to take out your anger on the community since they did not do anything to you. If you are that angry at the development company go bother them, though you might end up with a restraining order.
Your angst balloon has finally exploded! Are you satisfied now? Unfortunately, it will not change anything. If you only would like to hear VG praise and worship, you need to move to a Vansite. Good luck!
Once again if you read my above post I neither care for or play Vanguard. I only posted this because it seems the same people move from new game to new game flooding its forums with the same crap. Then they all find a game which in my opinion is just as horrible if not worse then the ones they hate (i.e. LOTRO) and praise it to no end attacking anyone who has anything else to say. A bit hypocritical if you ask me.
It entertains me.
It is entertaining. I see lots of names that post here on the VG board (a game they don't play) posting on LOTRO board. On the LOTRO board, they totally sound like fanboyz. I could name a few guys, but it's not just my type. And they then accuse us (those who play and like VG) to be fanboyz. It makes no sense to me.
Someone post a concern or rant about another game (ie LOTRO) and the crew gets on their high horses. Just like here.
This thread alone, in the 5 to 10 minutes it has taken me to read through it, has offered me more entertainment then 26 Adventure levels, 19 Crafting levels and some weird diplomacy levels ever did.
One has to remember though that there is a LOT at stake here, this aint coffee money being wasted, ( unless you are Columbia or something ), I am fairly sure the border for were they will stop to get that cash back is far beyond what most of us would consider being anywere near morally or ethically defendable.
We shall see, but if you get dumped by SoE for "bad business practice" you are over the top, it would be like Doctor Mengele firing his assistant for being "to cruel".
Not saying that is about to happen at all.
Or am I?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MX13 So let me get this straight: They're claiming Sigil / Brad own TTH, SV & FoH? Or, are they saying they're bribing them, or something like that? I'm confused as to the point of this guy's rant.
Ill try to clear some thngs up for you.
Sigil and Brad does not own TTH and SV, but Brad used to be part of FoH as a Guild officer so clearly, FoH will have heavy censorship on their forums.
TTH and SV are forums that the Developers regularly visit because Vanguard does not have official forums of their own (which is downright retarded imo). When you have Developers visiting your fansite every single day, you're gonna tend to shut up the naysayers. Ive seen it first hand in SilkyVenom. If you don't believe this, go over there right now and browse the general discussion forums.
While Sigil does not own TTH and SV, they sure as hell have an impact on it by using it as their platform to communicate to the remaining players.
Well said, and I do agree. What you're refering to is the reality, which I would agree with & have seen with my own eyes. I was refering to what the OP's point was, which still isn't clear to me.
I love your sig BTW...I wouldnt mind SWG with black Jack and Hookers. Would be nice to Roleplay roflmao
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
It is entertaining. I see lots of names that post here on the VG board (a game they don't play) posting on LOTRO board. On the LOTRO board, they totally sound like fanboyz. I could name a few guys, but it's not just my type. And they then accuse us (those who play and like VG) to be fanboyz. It makes no sense to me.
Someone post a concern or rant about another game (ie LOTRO) and the crew gets on their high horses. Just like here.
Funny indeed
LoTRO forums are like watching paint dry compared to the Vanguard forums. The post referred to by the OP is 140 pages strong now and still growing. That sucker has more drama than all the LoTRO forums on the internet combined. Until LoTRO officially launches Vanguard forums are the best reading on the net and it's free. I have that FOH thread bookmarked.
Anyway the poster above has a good point. I mean if I had sunk 30 million plus into a project I would not want people talking smack about it either. I sure don't envy Smedley or McQuaid when they are reporting to Sonys board of directors. Not that I feel very sorry for them either.
These posts get more and more ridiculous every time I come here.
Next week Brad is actual Satan taking human form, its true, honest.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
It is a fact. Yes. A fact. SIGIL, Brad is in an aggressive campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard.
Brad is a greed-head and an incompetent game designer.
I was a victim of being banned, in fact . Further, from wikipedia to other sites, there is a campaign to censure those critical of Vanguard. I am not aware of any bias whatsoever at mmorpg.com.
Edit: I was banned on ton ten hammer, had several posts of Vanguard edited, moved, and removed until I was banned.
It is also interesting that Ten Ton Hammer just went to a "No Negative post" policy for Vanguard. Post negative stuff over there and it will be deleted or you will be banned.
You are really going to throw up the coincidence card here?
You want the timeline? From a VERY trusted source, and no, Ravenn, it isn't a disgruntled ex employee like your friends at sigil have told you. It's someone working there NOW.
Here it is, in a nice easy to read format:
Why doesn't Brad have his own forums? Because he can direct the traffic to fan sites with ad streaming revenue and make money off it if he has a vested interest.
A shitton of Vanguard threads (Some of which now that have been outright deleted) posting about negative experiences of Vanguard were rickshawed.
I posted some relatively VERY tame facts about how the post 35+ game is not even finished yet, with most of it not even coming until mid april when they plan their 2nd art asset patch, because even the art for most of these areas isn't even f**king done yet.
Rav tells me too cool it and stay out of VG threads.
I PM'd her back. Here is what I wrote.
Quote:
WHAT?? You have to be kidding me? The game is a f**king sh**heap that should have never been released. Is this a place where people can state their opinion or is it now a glorified ad site to attract dollars?
This is f**king ridiculous.
Nothing about this game is even worth a damn thread. The 40+ content isn't even IN THE GAME. The bugs are atrocious. You have people here who work for the company saying the game is quality and posing as actual users. How about we shut those retards down and start using this site to bring in quality posters who can express their opinion without some red handed hammer coming down because this place has turned into a glorfied revenue stream.
I just got a PM from a guy who works at Microsoft. Want to read it?
Here it is.
"I've been lurking on this forum for years. Since I work in the games biz I never felt right posting, but it is a great way to gauge the pulse of the MMO hardcore. I was on the MS side of the VG trainwreck and I have to congradulate you for getting to the core issues. So much so, that I think you must work for someone who makes games.
In any event, Sigil couldn't hit a milestone that they defined themselves, let alone one we asked them to hit. And the responsibility for that lays firmly at the feet of the annointed (read Brad for cultivating the "we made EQ so shut the f**k up" culture and Jeff for being a world class enabler and inept project manager).
For 15 years I've made great, successful, critically acclaimed games and I've never encountered a developer more arrogant, dismissive, and incompetent at the same time. Thank god for folks like you who tell it how it is when NDAs prevent those in the know from sharing our insights."
Show that to the powers at be like Tyen the wonder wallet and let me know whats more important.
After this I was banned. I couldn't even access my PM's.
Brad immediately goes on a posting tirade with more fluff than a pile of down comforters stacked 70 miles, all leaking with flat out conjecture, spin, and lies.
I get unbanned.
Brad vanishes.
You, of course and I wouldn't blame you, have a vested interest in traffic here. Developers threatening to pull the plug on posting here, which has been threatened by Rav's friends many times in the past - she has told me about this - (For example, when I would post something under NDA, yet workers for Sigil would break NDA with positive and not take the negative and try to get me banned because they were friends with her). Kudos to her however. Because she told them to stick it.
For a while.
Why did that tune change? At the same time negative VG threads were getting rickshawed, I got banned, McQuaid starts posting en masse, and grassroots was flying around here like mad?
Coincidence my ass. __________________
Utnayan/Nayantu - Elitist Jerks - Mal'ganis
Edit: Editing out the "bad" words.
Yep...samething over at the VN boards. In all the years I have posted over at VN I have been banned but one other time. This time I was banned on the VG VN boards for some lame ass reason and told that the VG boards over at VN would not be allowed to become a AC2 VN boards all over again. I was like...what the hell? Since when is it wrong for a fan of a game to not be critical of a game they like and want to see succeed. Is posting negative aspects about a game, aspects we know need addressed, worthy of being banned? All they want to hear is how great the game is - forget about the reality of it. Needless to say I'll never post over at VN again as long as the MODs there play the BS game they are playing now. Here is a link to the thread. A very hotly debated thread at that. People were banned for giving an opinion on this "crackdown" of posters. Either you blindly praise the game or you're not wanted there.
Yep...samething over at the VN boards. In all the years I have posted over at VN I have been banned but one other time. This time I was banned on the VG VN boards for some lame ass reason and told that the VG boards over at VN would not be allowed to become a AC2 VN boards all over again. I was like...what the hell? Since when is it wrong for a fan of a game to not be critical of a game they like and want to see succeed. Is posting negative aspects about a game, aspects we know need addressed, worthy of being banned? All they want to hear is how great the game is - forget about the reality of it. Needless to say I'll never post over at VN again as long as the MODs there play the BS game they are playing now. Here is a link to the thread. A very hotly debated thread at that. People were banned for giving an opinion on this "crackdown" of posters. Either you blindly praise the game or you're not wanted there. vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102054715/p1/
Yup, I got hit with the banstick at VN too, about 2 weeks ago now. Never been banned before. Posted a response to one of the VNVault Staff members who is a avid Vanboi and was posting pure vanboi crud. Next thing I knew I was banned. A few days later I got a new "warning" by one of the mods that I would be banned again if I posted on the VG boards again.
Only had been warned once before when I was discussing David Bowman during the Horizons fiasco.
If all the boards started cracking down at the same time I am guessing something caused this to happen.
My bad. Wrong board. I don't frequent those boards. My buddy IM'ed it to me.
Holy shit! Someone that admits to a mistake on the MMORPG.com Vanguard forum. A monumental occasion for both sides of the war, folks.
Just messing with you, btw. Kudos for at least admitting to the goof.
My point still stands though, the only mention of bans/deletions I see in the official forum rules are for people that are obviously trolling, posting personal attacks, etc. At least as far as VN, and TTH. Haven't gotten around to SV's forum guidelines, but from the time I spent there in the past, unless there was some great upheaval in the mods there, they didn't delete constructive criticism, just mindless bash posts. Personally, I'm all for that. Starting a thread that just says VG sux, with no reasoning behind why you felt that it was bad is a waste of bandwidth for the forum, and just ends up being a complete flamefest.
FOHguild.org is a different story, as they're not an affiliate, they're just a private guild board where many devs, including McQuaid happen to post due to their long relationship from back in the EQ days. I will say that things have really gone in the crapper there, though, since Furor stepped down when he got the job at Blizzard.
War? eh, idk if there is any war here. Vanguard is a failure... i mean, its not even a complete game...
Hey btw, holla at me when you hit lvl35 and you start to notice that THERES NO CONTENT... lol.
In regards to bias, all I know for certain is that my posts on TTH were edited, moved, and removed when I was critical of Vanguard until I was banned. I think TTH does not have an official policy of helping SIGIL manage the criticism, but TTH is an affiliated site and people have been victims of its unofficial censorship policy when in regards to Vanguard. Edit: I am not sure how prevalent its policy is, but I am confident they probably do not want it to be too obvious. The effort is not to eliminate criticism but make it appear less than what it truly is. The IGN board, on the other hand, has an official and public censorship policyspecifically related to Vanguard but not for other games to my knowledge.
On the FOH site, which I never really visited although I have played EQ for 8 years, there are now (when I visited early) two ads specifically for Vanguard. I do not know about FOH or care about FOH, all I know is that I was certainly banned from TTH.
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Time for Sigil/SOE to move on to the acceptance stage so they can fix the game. It is way too late for spin control. Anyone who follows these games even casually knows what is up. Banning's and BS reviews will not fix the game and sell more copies. Fixing it and word of mouth may still salvage it to a degree.
I don't think it's very accurate to say that any game that doesn't follow WoW's ease of play is going to fail. It seems fairly obvious to me that even after it was made fairly clear that Vanguard was going to be a more "core player" game (which everyone took to mean harder, and Brad now tries to spin as a misunderstanding) it still had a huge following. A lot of people really wanted to get back to their EQ roots and play a difficult, even sometimes frustrating game. Then again, I think a lot of this stems from people thinking WoW is an easy game just because of it's quick leveling curve. Many of the raids in WoW are extremely difficult and the differences in PvP skill between players is quite obvious.
That being said, Vanguard didn't fail because it tried to be a "hard" game. I'd say the largest reason it's failing, by far, is the piss poor performance and the completely unfinished and unrefined state of the game. The other reasons are a little less obvious.
I was heavily involved in the VG beta from 2.5 onward since I was in the most active guild in the game. The core group of us in the guild got a lot of inside information about how development was going and we often got to see and test content that was either available to other testers or other testers just weren't high enough level for. In my opinion (and I can probably speak for a few other members in my guild who experienced the same things), these are the reasons Vanguard is failing/has failed.
1) Brad was disconnected from the game, almost entirely. I can't speak for pre-beta 2, but from then on Brad rarely spent long actually in-game. This became even more obvious when he would consistently misinform the public in his posts about beta, and even his posts in the beta forums. There was even an incident where someone in my guild asked Brad a question about a recently introduced mechanic into the game and he flat out had no clue what we were talking about. I can't recall what the mechanic was, but it was a fairly important game-changing one. As beta went on it became increasingly obvious, both in game and on the forums, that Brad had no fucking clue what he was talking about half the time. Now, that's understandable in my opinion. You can't expect a CEO of a company to know all the goings-on inside of it, but when it's a CEO like Brad who would constantly make long dissertations about game design and mechanics within Vanguard, it just stank of bullshit.
2) A lot of Sigil's team was completely f**king clueless on how to do game design. If you look through Sigil's employee page at the developers you'll be hard pressed to find many experienced people. I don't mean to bash the employees at Sigil, most were really cool people, but the staffing done at Sigil was atrocious. We had class and mechanic designers that had never worked on a video game before and who's best experience was playing D&D or EQ. I'm no master at design, and maybe this is standard practice in the MMO industry, but a lot of their decisions were just inane and seriously hurt the game. Why do you think most of the classes were being redesigned right up until release with some classes getting complete overhauls 3 and 4 times?
3) Brad's overhype of the game. Granted, some of this was due to the rabid Vanboi population that popped up and would cream their pants over every word Brad said, but a lot of the blame has to be laid at Brad's feet. He always falls back on this lame "well I didn't promise x" cop-out, but the fact remains when the CEO of a company mentions certain things enough times people begin to expect it. He should've known better.
4) The unfinished release, obviously. Like I posted earlier in this thread in response to Brad (which he never responded to), a CEO of a company claiming that the "financial realities" are out of his hands is just f**king hilarious. As the CEO the financial operation of your company is YOUR responsibility. Not to mention after stating, several times, that he would not allow this game to be released until it was ready, he deserves every inflammatory post aimed in his general direction.
5) Finally, and this goes back to the "core player" game design, the total flipflop the designers and Brad tried to pull at the very last minute to make this game more competitive. Once again, being in the position I was in I got to hear about a lot of this straight from the developers mouth. Just months before release every f**king day would bring word that Brad and some other designers were trying to push yet another WoW-clone mechanic into the game. Now I'm not some "UBER HARDCORE" masochist, I enjoyed WoW when I played, but it was obvious that Brad and Co. were scared sh*tless at the lack of involvement in the VG beta. The retention rate in beta was horrible and they were f**king scared. In an effort to stopgap this they started to jam all these mechanics that the game was obviously not built for into the game to try and court back the "casual" player. The result is what you see now, a half-assed unfinished pile of mediocrity that straddles the line between EQ and WoW and just ends up all the shittier because of it.
So there you have it, why Vanguard is failing/has failed, depending on your point of view. If you'll notice, a lot of the onus falls on Brad here, no surprise. I had a lot of respect for Brad when I went into Vanguard and now I have zero. Thankfully with this stinker of a game he probably won't be producing/designing another MMO ever again. At least we can all hope so.
P.S. A big F**K YOU to Brad (and anyone else who was involved) for "letting go" of by far one of their best designers (the only one who actually played the game with real players for any significant amount of time). Apparently Brad doesn't like it when his designers express a difference of opinion about the direction of the game (and look who was right?). For that reason alone I sincerely hope you have to sell off all your cars and become of the laughing stock of the industry.
here you got it, these are the people who work with companies like Sony Online Entertainement...
2 bitch ass companies giving a shit on their customers, I hope they get what they deserve...
beside SOE, Sigil is now on top of my shitlist...
SOE and NGE-Star Wars Galalaxies: Raph Koster: "It's like dumping the girlfriend who has always been patient and loving to chase after the supermodel who probably won't love you back."
it's SOE, they always try this kind of thing, if it has happened then I think MMORPG.com will just flat out say no, I don't think it's flames and stuff they don't like, I think it's just constant bashing of a game without any real proof to back it up, they had a podcast about this awhile ago and they said if people can back up their comments with evidence about the game then they won't do anything, but if it's just "This game sucks" then they'll put a stop to it, basically a little summary of what was said.
All I have to say is it happened to SWG, it will happen to Vanguard as well, nowadays whenever I see a game and think it looks cool I check it for an SOE tag, if it's their I glance at the original Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided box I have sitting on my shelf gathering dust then I'm just reminded of how crap they treated their customers including me and move on. I remember when I tried getting it cancelled it wouldn't cancel properly, me and my dad just had a ridiculous amount of trouble talking to them and when it eventually came to it, they had to just do a complete wipe of the account because the support section probably hadn't been coded properly. It's pathetic, this is one of the many reasons i'm not touching any SOE published, developed or endorsed game with a ten foot pole, it's just not worth the bother and to people who say they have no influence on the way the game is made, publishers always have a say, they decide the release dates, they decide the offices the people can work in, they decide the people that can work and they also decide what kind of content they can have in the game within the designated time.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.
Comments
Obviously you don't understand what I am saying. There is a difference between discussing the bad qualities of a game and pointless flaming. Though you'll never understand and will continue with your tirade. Good luck with that! Hopefully it will change something or maybe make you feel better or whatever. Either way I hope you find what you are really looking from all of it.
By the way I neither like nor play Vanguard, I just don't see any point in trolling forums all day.
Also since you are done responding to my post and have lowered yourself to insults I am done with this conversation.
So long
Coldmeat: If you have read through the rules and policies you'd notice most of these threads don't follow the guidelines as listed on MMORPG.com
Countless duplicate posts flood the forum along with insults and harrasement as defined by the MMORPG.com's policies. It seems to me they have either given up on trying to moderate this forum or they just don't care. Either way that is no reason to act that way.
Once again if you read my above post I neither care for or play Vanguard. I only posted this because it seems the same people move from new game to new game flooding its forums with the same crap. Then they all find a game which in my opinion is just as horrible if not worse then the ones they hate (i.e. LOTRO) and praise it to no end attacking anyone who has anything else to say. A bit hypocritical if you ask me.
It entertains me.
Once again if you read my above post I neither care for or play Vanguard. I only posted this because it seems the same people move from new game to new game flooding its forums with the same crap. Then they all find a game which in my opinion is just as horrible if not worse then the ones they hate (i.e. LOTRO) and praise it to no end attacking anyone who has anything else to say. A bit hypocritical if you ask me.
It entertains me.
It is entertaining. I see lots of names that post here on the VG board (a game they don't play) posting on LOTRO board. On the LOTRO board, they totally sound like fanboyz. I could name a few guys, but it's not just my type. And they then accuse us (those who play and like VG) to be fanboyz. It makes no sense to me.Someone post a concern or rant about another game (ie LOTRO) and the crew gets on their high horses. Just like here.
Funny indeed
eqnext.wikia.com
I will say one thing though.
This thread alone, in the 5 to 10 minutes it has taken me to read through it, has offered me more entertainment then 26 Adventure levels, 19 Crafting levels and some weird diplomacy levels ever did.
One has to remember though that there is a LOT at stake here, this aint coffee money being wasted, ( unless you are Columbia or something ), I am fairly sure the border for were they will stop to get that cash back is far beyond what most of us would consider being anywere near morally or ethically defendable.
We shall see, but if you get dumped by SoE for "bad business practice" you are over the top, it would be like Doctor Mengele firing his assistant for being "to cruel".
Not saying that is about to happen at all.
Or am I?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jerek_
I wonder if you honestly even believe what you type, or if you live in a made up world of facts.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ill try to clear some thngs up for you.
Sigil and Brad does not own TTH and SV, but Brad used to be part of FoH as a Guild officer so clearly, FoH will have heavy censorship on their forums.
TTH and SV are forums that the Developers regularly visit because Vanguard does not have official forums of their own (which is downright retarded imo). When you have Developers visiting your fansite every single day, you're gonna tend to shut up the naysayers. Ive seen it first hand in SilkyVenom. If you don't believe this, go over there right now and browse the general discussion forums.
While Sigil does not own TTH and SV, they sure as hell have an impact on it by using it as their platform to communicate to the remaining players.
Well said, and I do agree. What you're refering to is the reality, which I would agree with & have seen with my own eyes. I was refering to what the OP's point was, which still isn't clear to me.
I love your sig BTW...I wouldnt mind SWG with black Jack and Hookers. Would be nice to Roleplay roflmao
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
LoTRO forums are like watching paint dry compared to the Vanguard forums. The post referred to by the OP is 140 pages strong now and still growing. That sucker has more drama than all the LoTRO forums on the internet combined.
Anyway the poster above has a good point. I mean if I had sunk 30 million plus into a project I would not want people talking smack about it either. I sure don't envy Smedley or McQuaid when they are reporting to Sonys board of directors. Not that I feel very sorry for them either.
I miss DAoC
These posts get more and more ridiculous every time I come here.
Next week Brad is actual Satan taking human form, its true, honest.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Just saw this over at Silky Venom. Neither side of the fence has a monopoly on the tin foil hats
www.silkyvenom.com/forums/showthread.php
I miss DAoC
It is also interesting that Ten Ton Hammer just went to a "No Negative post" policy for Vanguard. Post negative stuff over there and it will be deleted or you will be banned.
http://vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102054715/p1/?143
As it has been said before, the drama surrounding Vanguard is better than a soap opera.
That link doesn't got to TTH, it goes to Vanguard Vault. As far as I know (and I'm an avid community member there), TTH has taken no such stance.
If you read some posts after that he was corrected and admitted he was wrong about where it came from.
At any right, apologies Tnice.
Yep...samething over at the VN boards. In all the years I have posted over at VN I have been banned but one other time. This time I was banned on the VG VN boards for some lame ass reason and told that the VG boards over at VN would not be allowed to become a AC2 VN boards all over again. I was like...what the hell? Since when is it wrong for a fan of a game to not be critical of a game they like and want to see succeed. Is posting negative aspects about a game, aspects we know need addressed, worthy of being banned? All they want to hear is how great the game is - forget about the reality of it. Needless to say I'll never post over at VN again as long as the MODs there play the BS game they are playing now. Here is a link to the thread. A very hotly debated thread at that. People were banned for giving an opinion on this "crackdown" of posters. Either you blindly praise the game or you're not wanted there.
vnboards.ign.com/vanguard_saga_of_heroes_general_board/b22523/102054715/p1/
Only had been warned once before when I was discussing David Bowman during the Horizons fiasco.
If all the boards started cracking down at the same time I am guessing something caused this to happen.
Holy shit! Someone that admits to a mistake on the MMORPG.com Vanguard forum. A monumental occasion for both sides of the war, folks.
Just messing with you, btw. Kudos for at least admitting to the goof.
My point still stands though, the only mention of bans/deletions I see in the official forum rules are for people that are obviously trolling, posting personal attacks, etc. At least as far as VN, and TTH. Haven't gotten around to SV's forum guidelines, but from the time I spent there in the past, unless there was some great upheaval in the mods there, they didn't delete constructive criticism, just mindless bash posts. Personally, I'm all for that. Starting a thread that just says VG sux, with no reasoning behind why you felt that it was bad is a waste of bandwidth for the forum, and just ends up being a complete flamefest.
FOHguild.org is a different story, as they're not an affiliate, they're just a private guild board where many devs, including McQuaid happen to post due to their long relationship from back in the EQ days. I will say that things have really gone in the crapper there, though, since Furor stepped down when he got the job at Blizzard.
War? eh, idk if there is any war here. Vanguard is a failure... i mean, its not even a complete game...
Hey btw, holla at me when you hit lvl35 and you start to notice that THERES NO CONTENT... lol.
Whens Vanguard 2 coming out?
Rites of the Four Horsemen
http://www.rotfh.com
Thank god, someone else gets this besides me. mmorpg has been from the start, been in Sigils pocket. I mean, this is almost as bad as a fan site.
This game is horid, and sets a bad standard for mmos. This website is biased and a complete joke... any questions?
Rites of the Four Horsemen
http://www.rotfh.com
In regards to bias, all I know for certain is that my posts on TTH were edited, moved, and removed when I was critical of Vanguard until I was banned. I think TTH does not have an official policy of helping SIGIL manage the criticism, but TTH is an affiliated site and people have been victims of its unofficial censorship policy when in regards to Vanguard. Edit: I am not sure how prevalent its policy is, but I am confident they probably do not want it to be too obvious. The effort is not to eliminate criticism but make it appear less than what it truly is. The IGN board, on the other hand, has an official and public censorship policy specifically related to Vanguard but not for other games to my knowledge.
On the FOH site, which I never really visited although I have played EQ for 8 years, there are now (when I visited early) two ads specifically for Vanguard. I do not know about FOH or care about FOH, all I know is that I was certainly banned from TTH.
It is not a coincidence.
Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, acceptance. Time for Sigil/SOE to move on to the acceptance stage so they can fix the game. It is way too late for spin control. Anyone who follows these games even casually knows what is up. Banning's and BS reviews will not fix the game and sell more copies. Fixing it and word of mouth may still salvage it to a degree.
I miss DAoC
I always had a thought that Brad did not play the game given the strange spin he was giving out. More evidence that this was true:
http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/27044-why-all-nerd-rage-against-vanguard-143.html#post692589
That being said, Vanguard didn't fail because it tried to be a "hard" game. I'd say the largest reason it's failing, by far, is the piss poor performance and the completely unfinished and unrefined state of the game. The other reasons are a little less obvious.
I was heavily involved in the VG beta from 2.5 onward since I was in the most active guild in the game. The core group of us in the guild got a lot of inside information about how development was going and we often got to see and test content that was either available to other testers or other testers just weren't high enough level for. In my opinion (and I can probably speak for a few other members in my guild who experienced the same things), these are the reasons Vanguard is failing/has failed.
1) Brad was disconnected from the game, almost entirely. I can't speak for pre-beta 2, but from then on Brad rarely spent long actually in-game. This became even more obvious when he would consistently misinform the public in his posts about beta, and even his posts in the beta forums. There was even an incident where someone in my guild asked Brad a question about a recently introduced mechanic into the game and he flat out had no clue what we were talking about. I can't recall what the mechanic was, but it was a fairly important game-changing one. As beta went on it became increasingly obvious, both in game and on the forums, that Brad had no fucking clue what he was talking about half the time. Now, that's understandable in my opinion. You can't expect a CEO of a company to know all the goings-on inside of it, but when it's a CEO like Brad who would constantly make long dissertations about game design and mechanics within Vanguard, it just stank of bullshit.
2) A lot of Sigil's team was completely f**king clueless on how to do game design. If you look through Sigil's employee page at the developers you'll be hard pressed to find many experienced people. I don't mean to bash the employees at Sigil, most were really cool people, but the staffing done at Sigil was atrocious. We had class and mechanic designers that had never worked on a video game before and who's best experience was playing D&D or EQ. I'm no master at design, and maybe this is standard practice in the MMO industry, but a lot of their decisions were just inane and seriously hurt the game. Why do you think most of the classes were being redesigned right up until release with some classes getting complete overhauls 3 and 4 times?
3) Brad's overhype of the game. Granted, some of this was due to the rabid Vanboi population that popped up and would cream their pants over every word Brad said, but a lot of the blame has to be laid at Brad's feet. He always falls back on this lame "well I didn't promise x" cop-out, but the fact remains when the CEO of a company mentions certain things enough times people begin to expect it. He should've known better.
4) The unfinished release, obviously. Like I posted earlier in this thread in response to Brad (which he never responded to), a CEO of a company claiming that the "financial realities" are out of his hands is just f**king hilarious. As the CEO the financial operation of your company is YOUR responsibility. Not to mention after stating, several times, that he would not allow this game to be released until it was ready, he deserves every inflammatory post aimed in his general direction.
5) Finally, and this goes back to the "core player" game design, the total flipflop the designers and Brad tried to pull at the very last minute to make this game more competitive. Once again, being in the position I was in I got to hear about a lot of this straight from the developers mouth. Just months before release every f**king day would bring word that Brad and some other designers were trying to push yet another WoW-clone mechanic into the game. Now I'm not some "UBER HARDCORE" masochist, I enjoyed WoW when I played, but it was obvious that Brad and Co. were scared sh*tless at the lack of involvement in the VG beta. The retention rate in beta was horrible and they were f**king scared. In an effort to stopgap this they started to jam all these mechanics that the game was obviously not built for into the game to try and court back the "casual" player. The result is what you see now, a half-assed unfinished pile of mediocrity that straddles the line between EQ and WoW and just ends up all the shittier because of it.
So there you have it, why Vanguard is failing/has failed, depending on your point of view. If you'll notice, a lot of the onus falls on Brad here, no surprise. I had a lot of respect for Brad when I went into Vanguard and now I have zero. Thankfully with this stinker of a game he probably won't be producing/designing another MMO ever again. At least we can all hope so.
P.S. A big F**K YOU to Brad (and anyone else who was involved) for "letting go" of by far one of their best designers (the only one who actually played the game with real players for any significant amount of time). Apparently Brad doesn't like it when his designers express a difference of opinion about the direction of the game (and look who was right?). For that reason alone I sincerely hope you have to sell off all your cars and become of the laughing stock of the industry.
lol @ sigil and brad
in the end the truth comes out...
here you got it, these are the people who work with companies like Sony Online Entertainement...
2 bitch ass companies giving a shit on their customers, I hope they get what they deserve...
beside SOE, Sigil is now on top of my shitlist...
SOE and NGE-Star Wars Galalaxies:
Raph Koster: "It's like dumping the girlfriend who has always been patient and loving to chase after the supermodel who probably won't love you back."
All I have to say is it happened to SWG, it will happen to Vanguard as well, nowadays whenever I see a game and think it looks cool I check it for an SOE tag, if it's their I glance at the original Star Wars Galaxies: An Empire Divided box I have sitting on my shelf gathering dust then I'm just reminded of how crap they treated their customers including me and move on. I remember when I tried getting it cancelled it wouldn't cancel properly, me and my dad just had a ridiculous amount of trouble talking to them and when it eventually came to it, they had to just do a complete wipe of the account because the support section probably hadn't been coded properly. It's pathetic, this is one of the many reasons i'm not touching any SOE published, developed or endorsed game with a ten foot pole, it's just not worth the bother and to people who say they have no influence on the way the game is made, publishers always have a say, they decide the release dates, they decide the offices the people can work in, they decide the people that can work and they also decide what kind of content they can have in the game within the designated time.
Quoting people doesn't make you clever, in fact, it makes you all the more stupid for not bothering to read the quotes you post in the first place.