Originally posted by Shadrak ROFL yep got me! Thats one of the better ones Ive seen today. Oh well. My statement holds true anyway.. I wouldnt take gameadvice/reviews from someone that would spend 22 hours playing Pigs In Space: The Muppets Take Mars . anyway you shouldnt be so hostile..its not good for your health.
DuraHells is better, but I don't remember what it is at the moment.
And being here as long as you have you should know I'm always hostile. Hell, I spent a year playing a Dwarf Priest on a PvP server in WoW doing PuGs for many months. It's a surprise I haven't killed someone.
to all the 'VG is dying posts', back that with something real. to all the 'VG doesn't have 8 million players posts', tell me why I care as a player wether the game has 10 servers or 100 as long as they are populated. I doubt I agree with that many people on anything else, why should I on games? If your answer involves Brad or Vision- save, because neither I or most people playing the game give a shit about either- while they may come up a hundred times a day here on these forums, I have NEVER seen brad or vision refered to in game, about anything, ever. different games work for different people, thats obvious, and VG is a awesome game for me.
You posted it too early for April Fools day. Besides, I hate April Fools Pranks.
thre is already talks and rumors in the Vanguard chat channels of "server consolidation" aka mergers. which is first of many bad signs. i pretty much canceled for numerous reasons which already been addressed in countless posts. i think the game has potential, but as of now its mediocre, and too unstable and buggy. perhaps i another 4-6 months it iwll be worth venturing back into again for a retry to see how it has progressed. until then there is not much saving this game as people are currently leaving, heck in fact to give an example we have like 56 people in our guild perhaps 4-7 are on at any given time, more than half havent been on since 3/10 or 3/19 i got the game til the 7th so ill play til then, but i see the guild going down the drain in the coming months or barely operating on minimum resources and players. florendyl is starting to get harder to get groups overtime which is another red flag the server isnt doing great. but oh well its not a huge issue as Im gonna save a bit of money this way. lets hope this game cleans up, if not VAnguard will go under.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
Why single out McQuaid? Not as if he's the only designer that's promised the Sun, Moon, and Stars, only to not deliver. Bowman, Raph, Jacobs, Garriott, all guilty of the same things. But for some reason, they're given a free pass, where I'm pretty sure there's more than a few folks here that are rapidly approaching borderline psychosis that would, given the opportunity, relish doing harm to McQuaid personally.
The difference is that McQuaid blatantly "lied". Not "spinned". "Lied", in order to rob people of their gaming dollars. The jury is still out on Garriott. However, show me where Garriott is hyping up Tabula Rasa like Brad was trash talking before Vanguard came out.
Now I don't mind trash talking. However if you do it you have to back it up. Deon Sanders and Michael Jordan used to trash talk and back it up with their gameplay.
Brad trashed many other games including EQ1 during the time period that led up to the release of Vanguard. What we see is a shell of a 1st generation game that is buggy and barely playable. His trash talk brought a lot of dysfunctional, WoW-hating, Vanbois out of the wood work to support him. Now he is trying to change his tone and say "All Players are Welcome" in order to keep this abortion afloat.
He even recently trashed DDO by Turbine. It is now very interesting to see Turbine getting the last laugh with LoTR. LoTR will outsell VG by at least 5 times. And yes Vanbois, sells do matter. If VG only cost 25k to make and was a free MMO like the one at the bottom of this page it would not matter but VG is a $30 million abortion that will affect our gaming in the future.
Exactly, Garriott and Jacobs at least are NOTHING like Brad when it comes to presenting themselves.
A snippet from that post that differentiates Mark Jacobs a world apart from Brad:
" As to taking what developers say with a grain of salt, I have always said never to trust *any* developer or game till you see the results. As those who have been here for a while know, I said the same things during DAoC's development. Listen, contribute, play and then decide for yourself whether the game/developer is any good 30 days or so after launch. As any of the Warhammer Aliiance guys can tell you, I said the same thing over there day one. I'll leave the cult of personality for other people (no offense intended to them just different ways of doing things) and let them have the adoration/love/etc. as all I want to do is make great games for EA Mythic just as I did for Mythic or A.U.S.I. (my previous company). Again, trust the game first, the developer second. "
That's an absolute world of difference from Brad who STILL is selling his game based upon the potential of future hardware, the potential that people will tire of Burning Crusades. He sells his game by constantly talking about things that aren't in-game; flying, mounted combat; chunking being reduced to nill; RTS style player cities; etc. etc.
Rarely does Brad ever talk about the present, and rarely does he poise Vanguard as "worth it" for what it is today. All he does is talking about 5-7 years of planned content Sigil has in store for Vanguard despite being behind as is.
Brad would bury his whole persona, the 'Vision' and all the 'potential talk' he uses to tote his game if he were to ever utter such words as, "trust the game first, the developer second", and to overall judge the game based on the present.
And as Tnice mentioned, Mr. Lord British isn't off doing anything similar to Brad when it comes to Tabula Rasa. He isn't calling it the "spiritual successor to UO", he isn't flaunting any large budget NCSoft affords him, nor is he promising Tabula Rasa to be the premier 3rd-generation MMO of 2007. More importantly, he cemented himself a position to be able to take care of his game after a six year development cycle, and not be threatened with the 'financial realities' and forced to release an incomplete, awkwardly published mess.
There are likenesses to be pointed out between some of the star developers of the industry; but Brad and Sigil have more in common with your Bowman and Artifact than your Garriott and Destination, Jacob and Mythic.
Originally posted by sepher There are likenesses to be pointed out between some of the star developers of the industry; but Brad and Sigil have more in common with your Bowman and Artifact than your Garriott and Destination, Jacob and Mythic.
Ok, Garriott may not have been the best example, as he does a very good job of being very reclusive, and all. Though, I do remember reading something on F13 about him making some comments about ArenaNet and GW's revenue model, or something. Can't find the bloody post right now, though.
Jacobs, however... I remember back in the day when Mythic hired Lum and Tweety. I remember all the stupid conspiracy crap that they were hired not for their particular skill sets, but to keep their mouths shut. I remember alot of stuff on SND.com that mirrors some of what's gone on with McQuaid and VG. People going from legit criticism of the game to just badmouthing the game for the sake of being an ass, to personal attacks on Jacobs and the devs. At which point he made a post basically saying "Fuck you, I'm taking my ball, and going home." But now, it's all water under the bridge, along with the many posts he made throughout DAoC's life spinning this or that, and some would say "lieing", I'm sure.
Personally, I like Jacobs. And Raph, and Garriott(though, the Lord British thing is a bit weird/creepy at this point). Hell, I even like McQuaid. While I may disagree with some of his design philosophies, I am able to do so without resorting to personal attacks on the guy. I don't really care much for VG, though I don't hate the game either, but I can divorce my criticism of the game from getting personal about McQuaid, or the devs as a whole.
Frankly, I feel somewhat sorry for McQuaid. He's in a pretty shitty position right now, tap dancing in a mine field while being shot at by those that just want to see him fail. Or die, in some cases. While it is a bed of his own making, it's not a position I would wish on anyone. He's just a bad mouthpiece due to his being too much of a "just one of the guys" type, rather than a professional talking head type. He tries to be too upfront on some things, which bites him in the can, and on other things, he's not upfront enough. Doesn't help that he seems to have a tendency to use the wrong word or phrase a lot. Especially since he has a legion of people just waiting to nitpick and over analyze every thing he says. Like the viral marketing thing. If he'd just said positive word of mouth, like he meant, it would have saved him a truckload of grief.
I wonder, though. If it'd been Raph, or Jacobs, or anyone other than McQuaid at the helm of Sigil, and VG, would there be a different reaction from the community? Not so much in the fact that the game was panned, but the hatred, vehemence, and near violence with which it has been panned. Do people tear the game down further because it's Brads baby?
I have not see even 1 blockbuster followup mmorpg from any company thus far in mmo history.
I dont care who you are, all your experience in mmo "design" means nothing. Look at eq2, look at Vanguard, look at SWG... is this what "experience" counts for?
Originally posted by rungard I have not see even 1 blockbuster followup mmorpg from any company thus far in mmo history. I dont care who you are, all your experience in mmo "design" means nothing. Look at eq2, look at Vanguard, look at SWG... is this what "experience" counts for? ill take my chances on the new guy.
I dunno, I think WAR will do better numbers than DAoC, though I suppose it's not truly a follow up to DAoC.
Deeper content would of been nice as well . Things like creating a shop, kind of like second life where you could build the physical shop and then build up a inventory and have goods on display in real time. With in that store you could have a thief player come in and try to steal something or you get robbed and you have o track down the robber. Deeper content was what I was looking for, but if I can''t have really deep content then I would rather play something that is a lot of fun, and runs superbly with a very well thought out game concept and design .
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Deeper content would of been nice as well . Things like creating a shop, kind of like second life where you could build the physical shop and then build up a inventory and have goods on display in real time. With in that store you could have a thief player come in and try to steal something or you get robbed and you have o track down the robber. Deeper content was what I was looking for, but if I can''t have really deep content then I would rather play something that is a lot of fun, and runs superbly with a very well thought out game concept and design .
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.
Why single out McQuaid? Not as if he's the only designer that's promised the Sun, Moon, and Stars, only to not deliver. Bowman, Raph, Jacobs, Garriott, all guilty of the same things. But for some reason, they're given a free pass, where I'm pretty sure there's more than a few folks here that are rapidly approaching borderline psychosis that would, given the opportunity, relish doing harm to McQuaid personally.
Because Brad had the credentials to be the person behind 3rd gen MMORPG game. EQ1 was (at a time) a real breakthrough and when someone behind EQ1 creation comes up with a wonderful (in theory) idea behind next gen game people are half way sold already. The final product, however, did not come out as it was expected. Main reason? Believe it or not, finances. If someone starts a business and his money are gone half way through, that person has no rights being in one.
Those other guys (as far as I know) didnt realy create anything great to start with, so they didnt have a card deck full of wild cards to show to the public as proof of their credibility. Brad did have a few, but he lost it now. Of all those people, Brad disappointed people the most, hence why Brad is being singled out. He deserves it too.
RL is not a Monopoly. If you screw up, you will make people mad. You cant re-roll dice or start a new game.
Deeper content would of been nice as well . Things like creating a shop, kind of like second life where you could build the physical shop and then build up a inventory and have goods on display in real time. With in that store you could have a thief player come in and try to steal something or you get robbed and you have o track down the robber. Deeper content was what I was looking for, but if I can''t have really deep content then I would rather play something that is a lot of fun, and runs superbly with a very well thought out game concept and design .
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
Deeper content would of been nice as well . Things like creating a shop, kind of like second life where you could build the physical shop and then build up a inventory and have goods on display in real time. With in that store you could have a thief player come in and try to steal something or you get robbed and you have o track down the robber. Deeper content was what I was looking for, but if I can''t have really deep content then I would rather play something that is a lot of fun, and runs superbly with a very well thought out game concept and design .
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
What problem?
That is why i pay a monthly fee... To have extra features. I was not frustrated by it with SWG... i'm not with VG.
I have not see even 1 blockbuster followup mmorpg from any company thus far in mmo history. I dont care who you are, all your experience in mmo "design" means nothing. Look at eq2, look at Vanguard, look at SWG... is this what "experience" counts for? ill take my chances on the new guy.
Lineage II didn't do bad at all. I don't think it ever once exceeded Lineage I's subscriptions; but both are above one million subscribers, so who's to complain? Lineage II also did better than Lineage I.
With two canceled Ultima Online sequels though, Everquest II failing to recreate the original's success, and of course the disaster that was Asheron's Call 2...I know what you mean.
I think other faults were at play on all accounts though other than the fact that the games were 'sequel'. Origin cancelled the Ultima Onlines because they felt the sequel would compete with the prequel. The aforementioned Lineages though exhibited that two connected games needn't necessarily cannibalize one another.
Sounds like you're talking about specific developers following up their earlier successes though, not just sequels. We're about to see a whole crop of attempts over this year, and the next few years...Jack Emmert's use of the Marvel license for a City of Heroes follow up, Mark Jacob's attempt at RvR in the Warhammer World, Garriott's Tabula Rasa...etc.
Deeper content would of been nice as well . Things like creating a shop, kind of like second life where you could build the physical shop and then build up a inventory and have goods on display in real time. With in that store you could have a thief player come in and try to steal something or you get robbed and you have o track down the robber. Deeper content was what I was looking for, but if I can''t have really deep content then I would rather play something that is a lot of fun, and runs superbly with a very well thought out game concept and design .
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
What problem?
That is why i pay a monthly fee... To have extra features. I was not frustrated by it with SWG... i'm not with VG.
ok - i'll spell it out for you ONE....................MORE..............................TIME
you are the problem
if it wasn't for people like you, game developers/producers would not give us half the game they were promising - these things were not considered extra features
now we know MMOs will have added content after release - that is part of what your monthly fee is paying for - it keeps the old timers around among other things
Deeper content would of been nice as well . Things like creating a shop, kind of like second life where you could build the physical shop and then build up a inventory and have goods on display in real time. With in that store you could have a thief player come in and try to steal something or you get robbed and you have o track down the robber. Deeper content was what I was looking for, but if I can''t have really deep content then I would rather play something that is a lot of fun, and runs superbly with a very well thought out game concept and design .
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
What problem?
That is why i pay a monthly fee... To have extra features. I was not frustrated by it with SWG... i'm not with VG.
ok - i'll spell it out for you ONE....................MORE..............................TIME
you are the problem
if it wasn't for people like you, game developers/producers would not give us half the game they were promising - these things were not considered extra features
now we know MMOs will have added content after release - that is part of what your monthly fee is paying for - it keeps the old timers around among other things
there - that should be enough explanation
Non sense.
People will buy games no matter what. If i took a look at VG in beta and liked what i saw without having deep knowledge of what was supposed to be in there, i'm allowed to purchase the game.
I pay a monthly fee. As long as they work on the game, i'm fine. Promise or not? I don't give a shit. I'll play whatever game i want in whatever shape. As long as I AM having fun.
That is what you just don't get. People are having fun. It frustrate you and it pisses you off. If you're not having fun in your online world,
I think you would be incredibly surprised at just how close Vanguard is to the edge. It does have redeeming qualities for sure. But Sigil's recent behavior leads me to believe the game is about to get some severe changes. They're driving away a lot vanbois even now with these changes...and the changes aren't drastic enough to bring in more mainstreamers, just enough to keep the ones already there.
Originally posted by Coldmeat
Frankly, I feel somewhat sorry for McQuaid. He's in a pretty shitty position right now, tap dancing in a mine field while being shot at by those that just want to see him fail. Or die, in some cases. While it is a bed of his own making, it's not a position I would wish on anyone. He's just a bad mouthpiece due to his being too much of a "just one of the guys" type, rather than a professional talking head type. He tries to be too upfront on some things, which bites him in the can, and on other things, he's not upfront enough. Doesn't help that he seems to have a tendency to use the wrong word or phrase a lot. Especially since he has a legion of people just waiting to nitpick and over analyze every thing he says. Like the viral marketing thing. If he'd just said positive word of mouth, like he meant, it would have saved him a truckload of grief.
Heh, well said. I certainly don't envy the man. I think he suffers from idealism, while maybe not being in the best position to see those ideas through. He really is a fish out water as CEO of Sigil.
to all the 'VG is dying posts', back that with something real. to all the 'VG doesn't have 8 million players posts', tell me why I care as a player wether the game has 10 servers or 100 as long as they are populated. I doubt I agree with that many people on anything else, why should I on games? If your answer involves Brad or Vision- save, because neither I or most people playing the game give a shit about either- while they may come up a hundred times a day here on these forums, I have NEVER seen brad or vision refered to in game, about anything, ever. different games work for different people, thats obvious, and VG is a awesome game for me.
My problem with VG is that it is nothing that it was supposed to be. it is mediocre at best. This does not mean some people or many people will find it fun. It just means that it is not cracked up to be what brad said it would be. One mans garbage is another mans treasure you want my old boxers ?
Too many WoW fanboys. Only reason people play WoW is because of the name-history it had. And because 99% of them are monkeys who follow, with absolutely no opinion of their own other than: "WoW ownz u, u n00b."
People need to stop comparing apples with oranges. WoW is some lame ass cartoon, and Vanguard is some game too hard for the players of such lame ass cartoon. One is meant for people to log in for 1 hour a day and complete some quests, while only 3-4% of the 6 million+ people will actually play the content that requires a "raid" of 25 people, pfff. While Vanguard is meant for people in ALL stages to log in for many hours a day to become high level in months and not weeks.
Now you kids see the difference? If anything, compare EQ/EQII with Vanguard. But not cartoons with games. Like the guy above said, who the hell cares if the game has 1000 or 5 servers as long as each server is well-balanced and populated without polarizations (horde/alliance). Vanguard players don't need WoW players to complain for them, WoW players need to go back to their cesspool of forums and complain/cry there.
You're the only fanboi that has tried to compare WoW to Vanguard in this thread. In fact, I've failed to see that comparison in any thread I've read, but I don't roam this forum much due to imbeciles like you. Got that, kid?
to all the 'VG is dying posts', back that with something real. to all the 'VG doesn't have 8 million players posts', tell me why I care as a player wether the game has 10 servers or 100 as long as they are populated. I doubt I agree with that many people on anything else, why should I on games? If your answer involves Brad or Vision- save, because neither I or most people playing the game give a shit about either- while they may come up a hundred times a day here on these forums, I have NEVER seen brad or vision refered to in game, about anything, ever. different games work for different people, thats obvious, and VG is a awesome game for me.
The reasons people are starting to believe that it is dying IS because of the subscription numbers. Didn't they get 35 million dollars to make this game? Having only 100k subscription of active accounts does not really help. Over time it will not pay for their employees, server upkeep, or expansions. No, the game will likely not die because how many MMOs have been canceled compared to how many are still around, statistically show us that more often than not even the worst of MMOs has a hardcore fanbase that will keep the game going. At the same time, having such a small amount of players makes it hard for them to afford to be able to keep trying to fix the game, add content, or advertise for more players. It is the player base that is hurting the game just as much as the shitty development that went into it. They bought furniture for the office, when they could have spent it better elsewhere. There are a lot of people working on the game who do not have much experience and it is showing. Also I must ask you now, did you think that playing mr.big shot or the hero was going to stop flame wars just because you made 1 topic that has already been done a thousand times over?
I forgot to mention that the game did not deliver on all of what they said it would have. Also, it will be hard to gain more and more players with all the new games coming out. Continuing with the new games, do you think that some people aren't going to go back to WoW/Eq2 or even leave Vanguard for new games like Lord of the Rings Online, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Chronicles of Spellborn, Gods and Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, and Warhammer: Age of Reckoning?
I forgot to mention that the game did not deliver on all of what they said it would have. Also, it will be hard to gain more and more players with all the new games coming out. Continuing with the new games, do you think that some people aren't going to go back to WoW/Eq2 or even leave Vanguard for new games like Lord of the Rings Online, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Pirates of the Caribbean, The Chronicles of Spellborn, Gods and Heroes, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan, and Warhammer: Age of Reckoning?
QFT
Vanbois love to talk about how the game will continue to gain subscribers. Not only am I immensely skeptical that the game is doing so now, but anyone with half a brain can see that it will never be able to stand up against the games coming out, many of which are already getting far better reviews than VG ever did.
At least a few of them are bound to deliver a playable, professional product (something Vanguard never could), and those games WILL take all the new business (along with some of the old).
Comments
DuraHells is better, but I don't remember what it is at the moment.
And being here as long as you have you should know I'm always hostile. Hell, I spent a year playing a Dwarf Priest on a PvP server in WoW doing PuGs for many months. It's a surprise I haven't killed someone.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
The difference is that McQuaid blatantly "lied". Not "spinned". "Lied", in order to rob people of their gaming dollars. The jury is still out on Garriott. However, show me where Garriott is hyping up Tabula Rasa like Brad was trash talking before Vanguard came out.
Now I don't mind trash talking. However if you do it you have to back it up. Deon Sanders and Michael Jordan used to trash talk and back it up with their gameplay.
Brad trashed many other games including EQ1 during the time period that led up to the release of Vanguard. What we see is a shell of a 1st generation game that is buggy and barely playable. His trash talk brought a lot of dysfunctional, WoW-hating, Vanbois out of the wood work to support him. Now he is trying to change his tone and say "All Players are Welcome" in order to keep this abortion afloat.
He even recently trashed DDO by Turbine. It is now very interesting to see Turbine getting the last laugh with LoTR. LoTR will outsell VG by at least 5 times. And yes Vanbois, sells do matter. If VG only cost 25k to make and was a free MMO like the one at the bottom of this page it would not matter but VG is a $30 million abortion that will affect our gaming in the future.
Exactly, Garriott and Jacobs at least are NOTHING like Brad when it comes to presenting themselves.Case point: http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=8924.msg255692#msg255692
A snippet from that post that differentiates Mark Jacobs a world apart from Brad:
" As to taking what developers say with a grain of salt, I have always said never to trust *any* developer or game till you see the results. As those who have been here for a while know, I said the same things during DAoC's development. Listen, contribute, play and then decide for yourself whether the game/developer is any good 30 days or so after launch. As any of the Warhammer Aliiance guys can tell you, I said the same thing over there day one. I'll leave the cult of personality for other people (no offense intended to them just different ways of doing things) and let them have the adoration/love/etc. as all I want to do is make great games for EA Mythic just as I did for Mythic or A.U.S.I. (my previous company). Again, trust the game first, the developer second.
That's an absolute world of difference from Brad who STILL is selling his game based upon the potential of future hardware, the potential that people will tire of Burning Crusades. He sells his game by constantly talking about things that aren't in-game; flying, mounted combat; chunking being reduced to nill; RTS style player cities; etc. etc.
Rarely does Brad ever talk about the present, and rarely does he poise Vanguard as "worth it" for what it is today. All he does is talking about 5-7 years of planned content Sigil has in store for Vanguard despite being behind as is.
Brad would bury his whole persona, the 'Vision' and all the 'potential talk' he uses to tote his game if he were to ever utter such words as, "trust the game first, the developer second", and to overall judge the game based on the present.
And as Tnice mentioned, Mr. Lord British isn't off doing anything similar to Brad when it comes to Tabula Rasa. He isn't calling it the "spiritual successor to UO", he isn't flaunting any large budget NCSoft affords him, nor is he promising Tabula Rasa to be the premier 3rd-generation MMO of 2007. More importantly, he cemented himself a position to be able to take care of his game after a six year development cycle, and not be threatened with the 'financial realities' and forced to release an incomplete, awkwardly published mess.
There are likenesses to be pointed out between some of the star developers of the industry; but Brad and Sigil have more in common with your Bowman and Artifact than your Garriott and Destination, Jacob and Mythic.
Ok, Garriott may not have been the best example, as he does a very good job of being very reclusive, and all. Though, I do remember reading something on F13 about him making some comments about ArenaNet and GW's revenue model, or something. Can't find the bloody post right now, though.
Jacobs, however... I remember back in the day when Mythic hired Lum and Tweety. I remember all the stupid conspiracy crap that they were hired not for their particular skill sets, but to keep their mouths shut. I remember alot of stuff on SND.com that mirrors some of what's gone on with McQuaid and VG. People going from legit criticism of the game to just badmouthing the game for the sake of being an ass, to personal attacks on Jacobs and the devs. At which point he made a post basically saying "Fuck you, I'm taking my ball, and going home." But now, it's all water under the bridge, along with the many posts he made throughout DAoC's life spinning this or that, and some would say "lieing", I'm sure.
Personally, I like Jacobs. And Raph, and Garriott(though, the Lord British thing is a bit weird/creepy at this point). Hell, I even like McQuaid. While I may disagree with some of his design philosophies, I am able to do so without resorting to personal attacks on the guy. I don't really care much for VG, though I don't hate the game either, but I can divorce my criticism of the game from getting personal about McQuaid, or the devs as a whole.
Frankly, I feel somewhat sorry for McQuaid. He's in a pretty shitty position right now, tap dancing in a mine field while being shot at by those that just want to see him fail. Or die, in some cases. While it is a bed of his own making, it's not a position I would wish on anyone. He's just a bad mouthpiece due to his being too much of a "just one of the guys" type, rather than a professional talking head type. He tries to be too upfront on some things, which bites him in the can, and on other things, he's not upfront enough. Doesn't help that he seems to have a tendency to use the wrong word or phrase a lot. Especially since he has a legion of people just waiting to nitpick and over analyze every thing he says. Like the viral marketing thing. If he'd just said positive word of mouth, like he meant, it would have saved him a truckload of grief.
I wonder, though. If it'd been Raph, or Jacobs, or anyone other than McQuaid at the helm of Sigil, and VG, would there be a different reaction from the community? Not so much in the fact that the game was panned, but the hatred, vehemence, and near violence with which it has been panned. Do people tear the game down further because it's Brads baby?
I have not see even 1 blockbuster followup mmorpg from any company thus far in mmo history.
I dont care who you are, all your experience in mmo "design" means nothing. Look at eq2, look at Vanguard, look at SWG... is this what "experience" counts for?
ill take my chances on the new guy.
I dunno, I think WAR will do better numbers than DAoC, though I suppose it's not truly a follow up to DAoC.
I wonder if you would have liked the game that Vanguard was supposed to be, because that Vanguard and this Vanguard are two very different games.
No matter how you guys try to twist the gameplay/features, the FAQ pointed out VERY CLEARLY that what you saw in the FAQ was not set in stone.eqnext.wikia.com
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.
eqnext.wikia.com
Those other guys (as far as I know) didnt realy create anything great to start with, so they didnt have a card deck full of wild cards to show to the public as proof of their credibility. Brad did have a few, but he lost it now. Of all those people, Brad disappointed people the most, hence why Brad is being singled out. He deserves it too.
RL is not a Monopoly. If you screw up, you will make people mad. You cant re-roll dice or start a new game.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
What problem?
That is why i pay a monthly fee... To have extra features. I was not frustrated by it with SWG... i'm not with VG.
eqnext.wikia.com
With two canceled Ultima Online sequels though, Everquest II failing to recreate the original's success, and of course the disaster that was Asheron's Call 2...I know what you mean.
I think other faults were at play on all accounts though other than the fact that the games were 'sequel'. Origin cancelled the Ultima Onlines because they felt the sequel would compete with the prequel. The aforementioned Lineages though exhibited that two connected games needn't necessarily cannibalize one another.
Sounds like you're talking about specific developers following up their earlier successes though, not just sequels. We're about to see a whole crop of attempts over this year, and the next few years...Jack Emmert's use of the Marvel license for a City of Heroes follow up, Mark Jacob's attempt at RvR in the Warhammer World, Garriott's Tabula Rasa...etc.
I hope they all work out.
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
What problem?
That is why i pay a monthly fee... To have extra features. I was not frustrated by it with SWG... i'm not with VG.
ok - i'll spell it out for you ONE....................MORE..............................TIME
you are the problem
if it wasn't for people like you, game developers/producers would not give us half the game they were promising - these things were not considered extra features
now we know MMOs will have added content after release - that is part of what your monthly fee is paying for - it keeps the old timers around among other things
there - that should be enough explanation
Nothing wrong with this concept except that you can't hold it against VG, very few other games out there have this. WoW doesn't, EQ2 doesn't. All MMOG's out there need deeper content by your description here.
the really sad thing is, you were suppose to be able have your own shop in vanguard
Hmm... ok. SWG was supposed to be released with Player Cities, Mount, Speeder and space. Got added later. Same will happen with VG. I don't see anything wrong with that.and there ladies and gentlemen, is the problem in a nutshell
What problem?
That is why i pay a monthly fee... To have extra features. I was not frustrated by it with SWG... i'm not with VG.
ok - i'll spell it out for you ONE....................MORE..............................TIME
you are the problem
if it wasn't for people like you, game developers/producers would not give us half the game they were promising - these things were not considered extra features
now we know MMOs will have added content after release - that is part of what your monthly fee is paying for - it keeps the old timers around among other things
there - that should be enough explanation
Non sense.People will buy games no matter what. If i took a look at VG in beta and liked what i saw without having deep knowledge of what was supposed to be in there, i'm allowed to purchase the game.
I pay a monthly fee. As long as they work on the game, i'm fine. Promise or not? I don't give a shit. I'll play whatever game i want in whatever shape. As long as I AM having fun.
That is what you just don't get. People are having fun. It frustrate you and it pisses you off. If you're not having fun in your online world,
You are the problem.
Stop blaming others for having fun.
eqnext.wikia.com
Heh, well said. I certainly don't envy the man. I think he suffers from idealism, while maybe not being in the best position to see those ideas through. He really is a fish out water as CEO of Sigil.
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Life sucks, buy a helmet.
I like pie !
QFT
Vanbois love to talk about how the game will continue to gain subscribers. Not only am I immensely skeptical that the game is doing so now, but anyone with half a brain can see that it will never be able to stand up against the games coming out, many of which are already getting far better reviews than VG ever did.
At least a few of them are bound to deliver a playable, professional product (something Vanguard never could), and those games WILL take all the new business (along with some of the old).