There is no evidence that player taste has changed at all since the UO player base jumped ship to get away from the open PvP you want to see. Every game that attempted unrestricted PvP since then has failed utterly and even the restricted PvP in WoW had to be reworked to keep the player base happy.
EvE. Done talking to you- you're full of shit. You probably weren't even there asshole. (in UO before the split- watching the arguments back and forth on the stratics boards- it looked like a pretty even fucking division amongst the community to me dildo.)
You loose again.
EVE has high security areas and they are the most populated areas in the game.
Real EVE PvP is based around POS/alliance warfare so even if the structure is player defined it still follows the model of structured PvP rather then open PvP
EVE is post UO so it kind of defeats the premise that games lost track after UO.
lol. So why are games throughout time PvP games? If fighting MOBs is so great- why aren't the games with proxy make-believe opponents that people band together and celebreate their all winning?
lol. So why are games throughout time PvP games? If fighting MOBs is so great- why aren't the games with proxy make-believe opponents that people band together and celebreate their all winning? Life is about conflict with others. ; ) Wake up.
Because it's easier to make games that pit two humans against each other, especially if you can't create graphics, which has been the case for most of human history.
Well if you guys want open pvp with looting, xp, loss and jacking people over. Go join Asherons Call the server Darktide. You guys havent mentioned AC and I honestly think its better than UO. Its been around just about as long as UO. you want to pvp by your definition. Go play it.
lol. So why are games throughout time PvP games? If fighting MOBs is so great- why aren't the games with proxy make-believe opponents that people band together and celebreate their all winning? Life is about conflict with others. ; ) Wake up.
Why don't you take up full contact karate? Oh wait you won't. It isn't real pvp because you can't loot....
Anyway you'll all see someday. 10 years is a literal fart in the grand scheme thing of things. All of this can and will be turned upside down the more it gets played out and dry like it is right now. Watch and wait friends. Then you'll see what it's like to get the short end of the stick for a decade.
If you get the short end of the stick you choose to do so. Now griefers wanting to be a "victim"? ROFLMAO.. That is the funniest comment I have seen in a long time.
Again the point is: what can be crafted as a world design that doesn't fall flat on its face?
I think it's important to be clear about definitions as well, for purposes of the discussion. People are using the term "open PvP" to mean different things.
To me, "open PvP" means anyone can be attached virtually anywhere outside towns and a small newbie area, and their corpses can be looted for items, cash and inventory, and full death penalties for dying (exp loss, clone loss, etc.).
"Modified open PvP" means the same as "open PvP", but without looting or death penalties, or where there are significant restrictions or consequences to PvPing in substantial areas of the game.
I think that the market for "open PvP" as I have defined it here is very small, while the market for "modified open PvP" is significantly larger because while it permits nonconsensual PvP, it mitigates the consequences. Both markets are smaller than the non-PvP market, but to be honest the "open PvP" per my definition is really the smallest market. Every game that featured it has fallen flat on its face. So the question goes over to you advocates of it: what design would work so that the game doesn't fall flat on its face? I don't think that the Devs know, and I think to a large degree they have given up on the issue due to all the failures, and have moved on to either no PvP worlds, RvR-PvP worlds, or "modified open PvP" worlds.
Oh and EVE is "modified open PvP" because there are significant consequences (negative ones) for ganking people in much of the game space. EVE is only "open PvP" in 0.0, and if you open the map and look to see how many people are there compared with how many people are in the non-ganking space, well ... there you are with the number of people who really prefer "open PvP".
I tend to agree with your definitions. The big thing to me is player freedom. While the people who support full open PvP tend to rally around that banner in practice if you don’t set rules people will use that freedom to force themselves on others. The result is that these other people are no longer free to do the things they want to do. No matter what the context real freedom requires a context of rules to prevent one person from taking away the freedom of another.
This is why PvP types other then full open PvP can be successful, but if you take away that structure all you end up with are the people looking to grief and things fall apart. Again I wish the people looking for this type of true open PvP the best but I doubt it’s ever going to happen.
Anyway you'll all see someday. 10 years is a literal fart in the grand scheme thing of things. All of this can and will be turned upside down the more it gets played out and dry like it is right now. Watch and wait friends. Then you'll see what it's like to get the short end of the stick for a decade.
Haha, as if PvE games will go away for a decade. Sheesh.
What you don’t seem to get is that 97% of people play other things because 97% of people have no interest in playing a UO style game and insulting the games they do want to play isn’t going to change this.
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.
The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you.
Me and my then friend from highschool got into UO together when it launched. We had an absolutely amazing time those first couple of years. One day though; I came over to find him playing EverQuest. The conversation went something like this: Me: So is that the new MMORPG I've been hearing about? Him: Yeah it's EverQuest. Me: Uhm, so what do you do in it? Him: Quests and stuff. Me: Do you get to fight other people and loot them and stuff? Him: Not really, no. Me: So what's the fun of it? Him: You can make friends; join a guild; and do group stuff. Me: We can do that stuff in UO. Him: Yeah, but EverQuest is simple. It's a lot easier to play. Me: I see... (backing away absolutely horrified) When's something genuninely GOOD going to happen with this genre? When are design principles and gameplay formulas going to EVOLVE? Someone wake me up when DarkFall comes out; i'll be in my cryogenic storage unit.
A lot of good things happened to the genre, but playerlooting is not one of them. Most people don't enjoy playerlooting, its not fun.
What you don’t seem to get is that 97% of people play other things because 97% of people have no interest in playing a UO style game and insulting the games they do want to play isn’t going to change this.
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.
The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you. OWE.. That was a bit harsh bro
I tend to agree with your definitions. The big thing to me is player freedom. While the people who support full open PvP tend to rally around that banner in practice if you don’t set rules people will use that freedom to force themselves on others. The result is that these other people are no longer free to do the things they want to do. No matter what the context real freedom requires a context of rules to prevent one person from taking away the freedom of another.
This is why PvP types other then full open PvP can be successful, but if you take away that structure all you end up with are the people looking to grief and things fall apart. Again I wish the people looking for this type of true open PvP the best but I doubt it’s ever going to happen.
It's very true, as Thomas Hobbes noted in "Leviathan". A war of all against all with no rules is not freedom, but a tyranny of the bullies. And most people really don't like that, if they have a choice in the matter. Well written post.
What you don’t seem to get is that 97% of people play other things because 97% of people have no interest in playing a UO style game and insulting the games they do want to play isn’t going to change this.
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.
The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you. OWE.. That was a bit harsh bro Maybe, but as the OP doesn't want to accept other peoples opinions (I've read through all 7 pages) I feel it's justified.
I remember making up a data cable so that my friend and I could play populous against each other on Amiga's. I've seen alot of changes in the computer world over the years. If something is good and well liked it stays around, justifiably so. If people get fed up with it they move on and play something new. This is evolution, this is what has happened to MMO's. Like I said, gaming is a social activity now, not for the lifeless geek sitting in his dark bedroom.
I used to be known as a geek for online gaming, now the younger generation think I'm "cool" to be playing at my age! There's hope for us all, well, the majority at least
What you don’t seem to get is that 97% of people play other things because 97% of people have no interest in playing a UO style game and insulting the games they do want to play isn’t going to change this.
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.
The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you. OWE.. That was a bit harsh bro
Actually, I thought he was nicer than this guy deserves.
...and while people couldn't kill each other, they could STEAL kill raid mobs which happened frequently. Through such tactics enemies were made.
Mmm hmmm- and then what'd did you do once you had this enemy? Taunt them by saying I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
?
I eventually tried these faggy pointless MMORPGs- I did. Couldn't stand them.
Sometimes it hurts much worse to have your entire guilds reputation RUINED for years then having some idiot PK you once. It's called politics.
You know, I enjoyed UO prior to the age of shadows. I never pk'd anyone, but was more than willing to kill a pk if they showed their face. I always lived in Felucca. My guild got bored and went full PK, they got quite the reputation. I was really embarrassed that I was friends with them.
The nice thing about full pvp, if someone is being a jerk, you have a solution, while in most games, all you can do is move on.
There is a problem with completely open pvp, it just does not work. Every game that has tried has flopped badly. The reason there is no consequence for being an asshat, those that incessantly pick on low level players. UO tried to have consequence by allowing you to kill a certain number before you went red and you could over time clear that kill count. That was not the most perfect solution, but it was better than some of the recent tries at open pvp.
Unless they build consequence into the game, they will not be successful. And none of the upcoming full pvp games do that.
Oh and Darkfall is strictly vaporware. I think most of us will be genuinely shocked if it ever gets published.
Why is it when i posted this everyone thought i was only talking about the pvp? UO had a lot more going for it than just the pvp. I understand a lot of players never experienced UO when it was new. So let me explain what people like myself miss other than just the pvp. Number one the skill system was fantastic you could be whatever you wanted to be there werent set classes. You could be anything from a tailor to a mage or both at the same time. Crafting was actually useful and needed. The big meeting place was the forge cus thats where u got all your armor and weapons. Everyone had the same gear so losing it was not a big deal but even though ppl had the same gear everyone looked different because of dye tubs and customization. You could tell who your friends were by how they looked not just the name over their head. People went as far as to build their own communities because you could have your own houses. There were rare items you could actually collect and save up for. Unlike some games where after you buy an epic mount money is pretty much useless. The closest relationships i have ever formed in a game were in UO because it wasn't 40 people fighting over gear. It was more personal freindships of people helping each other against their enemies. I still hate u TB but the most fun I have ever had in a game was the massive fights we used to have outside Trinsic. Another great thing was the fact that i could advance my character by myself or with other people if i chose 2. We didnt have to wait for 30 other people to get on. Your time was your own and there was always something to do. This isnt about being a loner I love playing with other people but I like more personal relationships and not having to wait for a specific raid time to become better is always nice. Its hard to put everything into words but I hope I at least shed some light on some of the things that were great and that we miss. Feel free to flame away or post some of the things you miss that i forgot.
Me and my then friend from highschool got into UO together when it launched. We had an absolutely amazing time those first couple of years. One day though; I came over to find him playing EverQuest. The conversation went something like this: Me: So is that the new MMORPG I've been hearing about? Him: Yeah it's EverQuest. Me: Uhm, so what do you do in it? Him: Quests and stuff. Me: Do you get to fight other people and loot them and stuff? Him: Not really, no. Me: So what's the fun of it? Him: You can make friends; join a guild; and do group stuff. Me: We can do that stuff in UO. Him: Yeah, but EverQuest is simple. It's a lot easier to play. Me: I see... (backing away absolutely horrified) When's something genuninely GOOD going to happen with this genre? When are design principles and gameplay formulas going to EVOLVE? Someone wake me up when DarkFall comes out; i'll be in my cryogenic storage unit.
I agree to 100%.
I also need a reason for the world to spin in a MMO.
The full PvP and full loot is what will glue the Darkfall world togeather.
Dont get me wrong, I dont PvP..but i dont want to play in a MMO there there is no chance of combat. Thats just sems so lame.
Crafters need the PvP element to sell there stuff, wich people accually need, starting a city really means something in the world..people can find a place to heal up in or trade or get scared.
The full PvP makes all other things work.
People just think there will be a mass slaughter every second in every place..thats wrong. It will be like any other MMO...but the risk will always be there
I liked Tezcat's post. He got it all backwards though... You can't move on from love. UO was a beauty, even though the games today may look farily good, they have no passion, no heat! Now why would you want to move on from that?
I don't see how people are happy with the road we're on. As I see it we're taking 14 steps back and 1 step foward with today's games.
Am not at all surprised why people can't get over UO, as I can't myself. Make something as fun again and I'll start thinking about it.
And lastly: Gaming are now, more than ever, for geeks. Geeks without style =oD
I got into games specifically because they were for nerds. As far as I know I'm still considered a geek by a majority of people I know in RL because I play rpg games. If I'm considered cool by anyone for playing games then that anyone is probably a fellow geek, nerd, etc. I'm personally 'antisocial' but that has nothing to do with being a nerd. I remember, PnP, muds, mmos were available to geeks so that they could get together and be SOCIAL with other like minded...that's right...geeks! Many fantasy geeks are as social as you can get, roleplaying with others using intricate storylines and characters.
Anyway, I wouldn't mind a niche open pvp game and I don't even pvp. I'm probably considered a carebear and yet I think it would be exciting to be in that kind of world. Lots of consequences, lots of heartaches and lots of meaning. At the end of the day it is just a game and I'm not going to have a nervous breakdown or kill someone because someone stole my uber sword (yes there was a guy that did that in China) and coin. Oh and Skill based! Skill based!
Nothing wrong with creating a niche game, AC is still alive after all and if I remember correctly fantasy mmorpg's are niche. At least they used to be.
I havn't played any MMORPG for more than a few months since UO. I quit UO after AoS when they added uber gear. The uber gear not only screwed over pvp but, also pvm. Anyway not going to go on a rant about AoS.
I really miss the awesome animal taming in that game. Also, the custimization. That's one reason so many new games piss me off is I look the same as everyone else. Also, the looting in pvp added so much. You not only had fun but, you actually felt as though you were progressing your character because you were at least gaining something from pvp. Unlike most games where the pvp is just there and doesn't help your character out. Why would someone want to pvp and not advance their character any more than someone doing pvm and not gaining xp or drops? If you take out the character advancement then it is no longer an RPG and you might as well play shooters. Usually when I was playing my pker I was really sitting in a house talking to my friend's for 90% of the time until we decided where we wanted to hunt or we would sit around and duel for hours. People that talk about pkers being anti-social have no idea what they are talking about. Half of the friends I made in UO resulted from fighting them. We had a fun fight and so we would talk about it say like "good fight" or something and often times became friends. There were people that were asses as well but, they were a minority. Just don't take games too seriously and don't take it personally and you will have fun in open pvp.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open. Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
2) Go to the Help Wanted section of the Developer's Corner on this site and recruit a netcode monkey, an artist, and possibly a scripter.
3) Do a search on Sourceforge for UO emulators and download one. There are really only two choices, so whatever floats your boat.
4) Now have the netcode monkey modify the Torque client's net routines to plug into the UO emulator, have your artist(s) make a bunch of models and a large custom map, and don't forget tell your scripter to set up the emulator for classic UO gameplay.
5) Rent a server for a month ($400) for a beta.
6) Track down any bugs that occurred during the beta and fix them (duh!)
7) set the server back up permanently and charge players $5 per month to keep the server up.
8) Profit!!! Sorry.... Couldn't help it.....
Personally, I prefer to enjoy games for what they are rather than be pissed about what they are not. I generally don't like MMORPGs. Despite that, I enjoyed playing Guild Wars, City of Heroes, and Eve Online. All three of those games are very different, but they bring something unique to the table. Guild Wars combines the best elements of Diablo and Magic: The Gathering to create some of the best arena based PvP you can find. City of Heroes has an awesome player search feature that allows you to form a party in seconds flat and a sidekick system so you can just jump in and play without worrying about being over or under a certain level. Eve Online was basically an RPG retelling of Elite. All of these games were good on their own their own terms. UO on the other hand....
All the towns in UO were packed from one end to the other with beggars and pickpockets. All the areas outside of towns were filled l33t speaking gankster asshats. The justice system was so broken that the town guards would only respond if someone got killed. This meant that a pickpocket could clean you out with no consequences but if you caught him in the act and killed him, the town guards would kill you on the spot. Throw in the shitty interface and you can see why I fled to Asheron's Call the minute it hit the shelves.
My advice to the OP is to "grow some balls" (as well as brains), and DO IT YOURSELF!!! This is the same tune I was singing when I started posting on this forum, and I'm still singing it now. Back then, I would get buried under a bunch of "mere mortals can't make MMORPGs" responses. I think that time has proven me right since we now have scores of private servers, Realm Crafter games, Player Worlds, and indie MMOs like Minions of Mirth. Long story short, stop bitching and actually do something yourself for a change.
Comments
EvE. Done talking to you- you're full of shit. You probably weren't even there asshole. (in UO before the split- watching the arguments back and forth on the stratics boards- it looked like a pretty even fucking division amongst the community to me dildo.)
lol. So why are games throughout time PvP games? If fighting MOBs is so great- why aren't the games with proxy make-believe opponents that people band together and celebreate their all winning?
Life is about conflict with others. ; ) Wake up.
l2understandhistorybeforementioningitinapost
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you.
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you. OWE.. That was a bit harsh bro
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you. OWE.. That was a bit harsh bro Maybe, but as the OP doesn't want to accept other peoples opinions (I've read through all 7 pages) I feel it's justified.
I remember making up a data cable so that my friend and I could play populous against each other on Amiga's. I've seen alot of changes in the computer world over the years. If something is good and well liked it stays around, justifiably so. If people get fed up with it they move on and play something new. This is evolution, this is what has happened to MMO's. Like I said, gaming is a social activity now, not for the lifeless geek sitting in his dark bedroom.
I used to be known as a geek for online gaming, now the younger generation think I'm "cool" to be playing at my age! There's hope for us all, well, the majority at least
http://aerirprown.blogspot.com/
Pfft. I'd be willing to falaciously say 97% of MMORPG slaves today don't know what the fuck Ultima Online is- but I can faithfully say whatever the real figure is it can't be too far off. How many times over has the total market grown in size since shortly after the release of EverQuest? That's how many people don't know what UO is or what's about it- and I can tell you that's a solid majority without even zipping over to mmorpgchart.com.
Most may not have played UO (I did, but then I'm a bit older than most of the people who are playing today) and at the time there wasn't really much choice in MMO's. The market has evolved, the games are easier to play now but that has led to a bigger audience and more players, to me that equates to making MMO's a success. The problems with games like UO is that it was a haven for geeks without social skills who could get into a game, play 24/7 to become the strongest players then just constantly pk the more casual players.The majority of players when I played were fine but there were plenty who were just out to pick on easy targets, kind of like MMO bullies really.
Looking at your profile, which I see you've just made a new account, makes me think that you were one of these lifeless geeks. If you're so interested in gaming, how come you've only just joined this site? Seems to me that you still haven't got round to growing up, probably without friends and just basically want to whinge.
Grow up and evolve. Everyone else has adjusted to progress and found themselves a new and most likeliy better game and challenge to play, and hopefully left the lifeless geeks behind.
New games require social skills, interaction with others, teamwork. These concepts I doubt are in your vocabulary.
The rest of us have moved on, gaming is no longer for geeks. I guess its just not for you. OWE.. That was a bit harsh bro
Actually, I thought he was nicer than this guy deserves.
Mmm hmmm- and then what'd did you do once you had this enemy? Taunt them by saying I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
?
I eventually tried these faggy pointless MMORPGs- I did. Couldn't stand them.
Sometimes it hurts much worse to have your entire guilds reputation RUINED for years then having some idiot PK you once. It's called politics.
You know, I enjoyed UO prior to the age of shadows. I never pk'd anyone, but was more than willing to kill a pk if they showed their face. I always lived in Felucca. My guild got bored and went full PK, they got quite the reputation. I was really embarrassed that I was friends with them.
The nice thing about full pvp, if someone is being a jerk, you have a solution, while in most games, all you can do is move on.
There is a problem with completely open pvp, it just does not work. Every game that has tried has flopped badly. The reason there is no consequence for being an asshat, those that incessantly pick on low level players. UO tried to have consequence by allowing you to kill a certain number before you went red and you could over time clear that kill count. That was not the most perfect solution, but it was better than some of the recent tries at open pvp.
Unless they build consequence into the game, they will not be successful. And none of the upcoming full pvp games do that.
Oh and Darkfall is strictly vaporware. I think most of us will be genuinely shocked if it ever gets published.
Was this topic just placed as troll bait?
I agree to 100%.
I also need a reason for the world to spin in a MMO.
The full PvP and full loot is what will glue the Darkfall world togeather.
Dont get me wrong, I dont PvP..but i dont want to play in a MMO there there is no chance of combat. Thats just sems so lame.
Crafters need the PvP element to sell there stuff, wich people accually need, starting a city really means something in the world..people can find a place to heal up in or trade or get scared.
The full PvP makes all other things work.
People just think there will be a mass slaughter every second in every place..thats wrong. It will be like any other MMO...but the risk will always be there
I liked Tezcat's post. He got it all backwards though... You can't move on from love. UO was a beauty, even though the games today may look farily good, they have no passion, no heat! Now why would you want to move on from that?
I don't see how people are happy with the road we're on. As I see it we're taking 14 steps back and 1 step foward with today's games.
Am not at all surprised why people can't get over UO, as I can't myself. Make something as fun again and I'll start thinking about it.
And lastly: Gaming are now, more than ever, for geeks. Geeks without style =oD
Anyway, I wouldn't mind a niche open pvp game and I don't even pvp. I'm probably considered a carebear and yet I think it would be exciting to be in that kind of world. Lots of consequences, lots of heartaches and lots of meaning. At the end of the day it is just a game and I'm not going to have a nervous breakdown or kill someone because someone stole my uber sword (yes there was a guy that did that in China) and coin. Oh and Skill based! Skill based!
Nothing wrong with creating a niche game, AC is still alive after all and if I remember correctly fantasy mmorpg's are niche. At least they used to be.
I havn't played any MMORPG for more than a few months since UO. I quit UO after AoS when they added uber gear. The uber gear not only screwed over pvp but, also pvm. Anyway not going to go on a rant about AoS.
I really miss the awesome animal taming in that game. Also, the custimization. That's one reason so many new games piss me off is I look the same as everyone else. Also, the looting in pvp added so much. You not only had fun but, you actually felt as though you were progressing your character because you were at least gaining something from pvp. Unlike most games where the pvp is just there and doesn't help your character out. Why would someone want to pvp and not advance their character any more than someone doing pvm and not gaining xp or drops? If you take out the character advancement then it is no longer an RPG and you might as well play shooters. Usually when I was playing my pker I was really sitting in a house talking to my friend's for 90% of the time until we decided where we wanted to hunt or we would sit around and duel for hours. People that talk about pkers being anti-social have no idea what they are talking about. Half of the friends I made in UO resulted from fighting them. We had a fun fight and so we would talk about it say like "good fight" or something and often times became friends. There were people that were asses as well but, they were a minority. Just don't take games too seriously and don't take it personally and you will have fun in open pvp.
Your mind is like a parachute, it's only useful when it's open.
Don't forget, you can use the block function on trolls.
You want UO back? Just follow my simple program:
1) go buy an indie license for the Torque Game Engine: Advanced.
2) Go to the Help Wanted section of the Developer's Corner on this site and recruit a netcode monkey, an artist, and possibly a scripter.
3) Do a search on Sourceforge for UO emulators and download one. There are really only two choices, so whatever floats your boat.
4) Now have the netcode monkey modify the Torque client's net routines to plug into the UO emulator, have your artist(s) make a bunch of models and a large custom map, and don't forget tell your scripter to set up the emulator for classic UO gameplay.
5) Rent a server for a month ($400) for a beta.
6) Track down any bugs that occurred during the beta and fix them (duh!)
7) set the server back up permanently and charge players $5 per month to keep the server up.
8) Profit!!! Sorry.... Couldn't help it.....
Personally, I prefer to enjoy games for what they are rather than be pissed about what they are not. I generally don't like MMORPGs. Despite that, I enjoyed playing Guild Wars, City of Heroes, and Eve Online. All three of those games are very different, but they bring something unique to the table. Guild Wars combines the best elements of Diablo and Magic: The Gathering to create some of the best arena based PvP you can find. City of Heroes has an awesome player search feature that allows you to form a party in seconds flat and a sidekick system so you can just jump in and play without worrying about being over or under a certain level. Eve Online was basically an RPG retelling of Elite. All of these games were good on their own their own terms. UO on the other hand....
All the towns in UO were packed from one end to the other with beggars and pickpockets. All the areas outside of towns were filled l33t speaking gankster asshats. The justice system was so broken that the town guards would only respond if someone got killed. This meant that a pickpocket could clean you out with no consequences but if you caught him in the act and killed him, the town guards would kill you on the spot. Throw in the shitty interface and you can see why I fled to Asheron's Call the minute it hit the shelves.
My advice to the OP is to "grow some balls" (as well as brains), and DO IT YOURSELF!!! This is the same tune I was singing when I started posting on this forum, and I'm still singing it now. Back then, I would get buried under a bunch of "mere mortals can't make MMORPGs" responses. I think that time has proven me right since we now have scores of private servers, Realm Crafter games, Player Worlds, and indie MMOs like Minions of Mirth. Long story short, stop bitching and actually do something yourself for a change.