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Saddam vs. Bush
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"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Yeah that's true but we live in modern western democratic societies and i am convinced that teachers try to give an as good as possible objective look at how things are going, of course there is always a more western look at things but you can't change that.
A teacher may barely give his opinion (especially with politics) and a student is old enough to form his own opinion with the information he was given
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
I dont really feel that way, why? Because its like places like rome or ancient babylon. They were corrupt, bloated, immoral nations. But to themselves they were perfect and always righteous. Which is the way I feel about this country, they think of themselves as the pinnacle of good, but they're just an evil bloated monster.
Its propaganda; if they spoke the truth about what they were, they're power would be overthrown, and they're all about power.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Oh, you are all so abhorrently ignorant. No offense, but this country needs to get its head out of its ass.
Allow me to share with you an e-mail I recieved from a friend that served in Iraq:
As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home.
And just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you.
This is the list of things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends and compare it to the version that your paper is producing):
· Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
· Over 400,000 kids have up to date immunizations.
· Over 1500 schools have been renovated and ridded of the weapons that were stored there so education can occur.
· The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off loaded from ships faster.
· School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
· The country had it's first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
· The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
· 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed compared to 35% before the war.
· Elections are taking place in every major city and city councils are in place.
· Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
· Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
· Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
· Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with
· US soldiers.
· Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
· Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
· An interim constitution has been signed.
· Girls are allowed to attend school for the first time ever in Iraq.
· Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.
Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have met many, many people from Iraq that want us there and in a bad way.
They say they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know there are good things happening.
Ray Reynolds, SFC
Iowa Army National Guard
234th Signal Battalion
This man spoke at my school, and he told us stories from his times in Iraq. Some were funny, some were tragic. One particular story I will never forget is this: He said that an Iraqi man brought him into a large room. The room had photos of people pasted from floor to ceiling. The Iraqi man said that all of these photos (about 450 of them) were the people that Saddam had killed in a small town during a two year period. The way these people died was horrifying: they were taken out in a public area and their own family was forced to kill them. For those of you sick enough to think that these victims may have deserved death, perhaps you should know that there were children up there.
So don't presume to tell me that you know what goes on in Iraq, and don't presume to say that we shouldn't be there and that this is just George W. getting back at Saddam for attempting to kill his daddy. That is BS and I hope your eyes are opened.
Some could say for those that voted yes.
Yes, Iraq was a crap pile.
Yes its in bad shape.
Ya saddam hussein was a thug.
We still shouldnt be over there. We arent the governing force of the planet.
Societies work themselves out; there is a time and a season for everything. Sooner or later if they were really sick of the tyranny, there would of been an uprising, and an overthrow of the Saddam Hussein dictatorship. If there were really that many people that hated him, sooner or later he would be overthrown.
Ya, some Iraqi's want the U.S., but according to a poll, alot want them to leave very soon, some want them to stay, some say they're really no better off then before. And then you have others that want their head on a bayonet.
Repeat after me.....
The U.S. is not the one world government police force.
Then think about this, before they go around telling other governments to do, maybe they should fix their own, because its in a pile of rotting crap, and they're only digging deeper into it.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Some could say for those that voted yes.
Yes, Iraq was a crap pile.
Yes its in bad shape.
Ya saddam hussein was a thug.
We still shouldnt be over there. We arent the governing force of the planet.
Societies work themselves out; there is a time and a season for everything. Sooner or later if they were really sick of the tyranny, there would of been an uprising, and an overthrow of the Saddam Hussein dictatorship. If there were really that many people that hated him, sooner or later he would be overthrown.
Ya, some Iraqi's want the U.S., but according to a poll, alot want them to leave very soon, some want them to stay, some say they're really no better off then before. And then you have others that want their head on a bayonet.
Repeat after me.....
The U.S. is not the one world government police force.
Then think about this, before they go around telling other governments to do, maybe they should fix their own, because its in a pile of rotting crap, and they're only digging deeper into it.
Yep, you should wait until countries who are breaking their treaties build up their militaries, gather their weapons, and take over most of Europe before you act. That is the only way to save lives and guarantee international popularity (which we all know is more important than peace or security).
Saddam Hussein invades Kuwait in the Gulf War, as allies, the U.S. helps Kuwait, and kicks him out, and then was the time to strike, and end Saddam Husseins regime. But instead they wait 10 years, say he was WMD's, and attacks him. He had no WMD's, he was no threat to the world, and he wasnt planning on takeing over any countries.
Point is, if they wanted him out, they should of taken him out in the Gulf War, then it would of been the right thing to do.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
He violated the terms of the cease fire agreement. He didn't comply with a single one of the seventeen resolutions over twelve years. Durring that time, he had ties with, and even paid terrorists, he tortured and killed his own people (funny, that was enough reason to go to Kosovo without UN approval, and Milosevic didn't even get seventeen chances and twelve years), cheated his own people and the UN with his illegal oil deals, and he fired on US planes many times while they were upholding those seventeen resolutions. I think the US was simply over generous with him.
People like to say the US discreditted the UN by going into Iraq, but the UN has done that to itself with twelve years and seventeen resolutions saying, "comply with this resolution or we shall pass another resolution demanding that you comply," and by running what could turn out to be one of the largest fraud deals in history in the so called "oil for food" program. The UN was put into place to take out people like Saddam, and in the end, they ended up funding his palace building programs while his people starved.
I'm not exactly the most informed on these resolutions and cease fire agreement. So if you could give me any links or whatnot. I'd appreciate it. As for terrorist's, people keep on sayin it, but there still seems to be no proof, and just speculation like the WMD's.
Cheating your own people, or stealing from your own people, the U.S. does the same thing, so its just rather hippocritical, may not be right, but that is that way. So bringing that up doesnt merit much.
Fired on what U.S. planes?
Bringing up the UN is pointless, its a corrupt, controlling monster, that overall should of never existed. And all it wants is power and domination.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
Saddam was no more a threat to the world like some others are now. Don't say think about the people because in Rwanda there are more then 4 million dead in a few years time and no one did anything.
There is still no more proof then rumors and most of them have been proved to be wrong.
When you say yes I don't think you are fighting there, very good that there is oil being pumped just sorry that the population can't use it.
They fired on US planes because US and UK were bombing daily in Iraq before even the war started.
There are a lot of countries that ignore UN resolutions so pls don't use that as a reason why it was allowed to attack.
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
"Saddam was no more a threat to the world like some others are now"
So in your attempt to minimize a threat you come up with the "everybody does it" excuse? How typical. He had already fired SCUD missiles at Saudi Arabia. Israel and a few others. He openly funded terrorists. Attacked one country and invaded another. But that's no big deal because "Everyone does it".
"There is still no more proof then rumors and most of them have been proved to be wrong."
Nothing has been proven one way or the other. If you have solid proof put it up.
"When you say yes I don't think you are fighting there, very good that there is oil being pumped just sorry that the population can't use it."
Oh yes, unlike the rest of the world, Iraqis have no need to stay warm during the cooler months and they drive around in solar powered cars and trucks.
"They fired on US planes because US and UK were bombing daily in Iraq before even the war started."
They've been firing on US and UK aircraft since shortly after the Gulf war ended. Is this another example of how the media in your country keeps you "informed"?
"There are a lot of countries that ignore UN resolutions so pls don't use that as a reason why it was allowed to attack."
Oh yeah another "everyone does it". Well then that begs the question, what good is the UN?
"I'm not exactly the most informed on these resolutions and cease fire agreement. So if you could give me any links or whatnot. I'd appreciate it."
So it's not just the USA who say Iraq had WMD
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3639977.stm
Iraq steps up nuclear efforts, experts say
http://www.dallasnews.com/latestnews/stories/090702dnintiraqnuke.ad822.html
How much of this is true? I don't know but only a fool would ignore it.
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/shows/saddam/index.html
THE IRAQI CONNECTION:Saddam Controlled The Camps
http://www.observer.co.uk/waronterrorism/story10,1373,591514,00.html
Saddam Hussein and Bin Laden: A Match Made Up in Propaganda?
http://www.worldthreats.com/al-qaeda_terrorism/iraq_terror.htm
Saddam's Ambassador to al-Qaeda
http://frontpagemagazine.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=12292
Atta/Prague new information
http://www.edwardjayepstein.com/PragueApril2004.htm
1998 Bin Laden Indictment cites AL QAEDA - IRAQ ARRANGEMENT
http://www.fas.org/irp/news/1998/11/98110602_nlt.html
Report Details Saddam's Support for Terrorists Who Killed Americans
http://www.hudson.org/files/publications/murdocksaddamarticle.pdf
Evidence links Saddam to 9-11, Inhofe says
http://www.newsok.com/cgi-bin/show_article?ID=1220183&pic=none&TP=getarticle
http://cnn.community.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=CNN.com+-+Laurie+Mylroie:+Is+Iraq+involved+with+U.S.+terror+attacks?+-+October+29,+2001&expire=-1&urlID=1566064&fb=Y&url=http://www.cnn.com/2001/COMMUNITY/10/29/
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=8887
http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,314700,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/alqaida/story/0,12469,798270,00.html
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/889jldct.asp
http://tennessean.com/nation-world/archives/03/06/34908297.shtml?Element_ID=34908297
http://www.nationalreview.com/robbins/robbins091903.asp
http://globalspecops.com/view.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/0,,SB106419196848988400,00.html?mod=opinion%5Fmain%5Freview%5Fand%5Foutlooks
http://www.washtimes.com/world/20030912-012437-3992r.htm
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/04/27/walq27.xml
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/033jgqyi.asp
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/003/296fmttq.asp
http://usinfo.state.gov/topical/pol/terror/98110402.htm
http://www.techcentralstation.com/092503F.html
UN resolution 687. Google is your friend.
http://www.fas.org/news/un/iraq/sres/sres0687.htm
Now you are wrong in my opinion, because you are to extreme about it. Saddam did fire that but that's more then 10 years ago then you should have reacted and not when the son came in charge and finished what his father started. In iran they are openly supporting terrorists but he we don't attack that because they might be more dangerous then Saddam who did these things earlier.
that's what I say there is no proof so no reason to attack, i don't understand what yoy are meanig perhaps i don't understand your sentence.
You are to extreme because when i said the Iraqi people can't use it that doesn't mean they don't use it. Where did you read that they are driving in solar powered cars, I never wrote something like that? The oil that is being pumped is used for export, it is very difficult for the local population to get fuel while your living on a godd*mn oil-field.
What do you mean is this how well you are informed in your country? I said the Iraqi fired back because the US and UK were constantly bombing Iraqi targets? How informed are you?
Oh yeah another "everyone does it". Yeah but they are doing it today and saddam did most of it back when he was powerful more then 10 years ago. and Us doesn't do anything about them, just pick the weakest and don't listen to other nations and then be mad when these other nations are not so happy when you ask for help.
One day all will die, surely you but never I.
"One day all will die, surely you but never I." Wheel of Time
"Now you are wrong in my opinion, because you are to extreme about it. Saddam did fire that but that's more then 10 years ago then you should have reacted and not when the son came in charge and finished what his father started."
So you were in favor of letting another 11 years go by. Maybe pass a few more resolutions, talk really really tough, posture in front of the world press, debate debate debate, threaten some more, talk really really tough again, posture some more, pass a few more resolutions, puff out our chest for the world press to talk about, count to ten and warn that we're really serious this time, pass a few more resolutions, pass a resolution at the EU saying that you may really get serious about this, praise Kofi Annon for his courageous leadership, and then publicly scold Saddam?
Ok that's what I thought. Just like the first 11 years.
"not when the son came in charge and finished what his father started."
Who just happens to be the president. Sorry you don't like my president but I'll take him to anyone you have in office.
"that's what I say there is no proof so no reason to attack, i don't understand what yoy are meanig perhaps i don't understand your sentence."
They you don't want any proof. You're just looking for any to oppose it. I even explained the meaning of 1441 which shows that Iraq was and has been in material breach. Now either you want the UN to mean something, or you don't. You can't have it both ways.
"You are to extreme because when i said the Iraqi people can't use it that doesn't mean they don't use it. Where did you read that they are driving in solar powered cars,"
It's called sarcasm. Make up your mind, can they or can they not use it?
"The oil that is being pumped is used for export, it is very difficult for the local population to get fuel while your living on a godd*mn oil-field."
Ummm do you realize how ridiculous that statement is? If it is all being exported just what are they using in their cars and trucks? What are they using to heat their homes?
And OF COURSE SOME OF THE OIL IS BEING EXPORTED. What is new about that? That is what oil producing nations do. Crude oil is pumped out of the ground and either shipped out or refined. As I said yesterday THEIR refineries are in disrepair thanks to years of neglect. It takes a long time rebuild or repair them.
"What do you mean is this how well you are informed in your country? I said the Iraqi fired back because the US and UK were constantly bombing Iraqi targets? How informed are you?
Because as I said, and i quote:"They've been firing on US and UK aircraft since shortly after the Gulf war ended."
You see they were not being bombed because us big bad Yanks and Brits thought it would be fun to see things go boom. IT WAS BECAUSE THEY WERE FIRING ANTI-AIRCRAFT MISSILES AT US. More commonly known as a hostile act. For which they would take out the anti-aircraft missile launchers.
"Oh yeah another "everyone does it". Yeah but they are doing it today and saddam did most of it back when he was powerful more then 10 years ago. and Us doesn't do anything about them, just pick the weakest and don't listen to other nations and then be mad when these other nations are not so happy when you ask for help."
My first answer covers this quite nicely. Sorry that you just started paying attention to that area.
(1) Wow, you mean EVERY intelligence agency in the free world were wrong? And UNSCOM too?
(2) You just eliminated any credibility you hoped you had.
(3) What's that you've been smoking? You should sell it and make a killing.
(4) Then it's very obvious that you should stick to gaming and leave the heavy lifting to adults because you sure don't have a grasp of what is really going on.
(5) yeah so was hitler. We should have just left him alone. After all who are we to judge? Look at all the nazis we killed. I bet the Germans, the French, Poles and Jews were all better off under him....right?
1. OUR OWN GOVERNMENT ADMITTED IT WAS WRONG!
2. nice argument /sarcasm
3. hmm very informative /sarcasm
4. wow u have all the facts /sarcasm
5. BAHAHAHAHHHA
"1. OUR OWN GOVERNMENT ADMITTED IT WAS WRONG!"
No they didn't.
stupid thred..but nuke america...my country can do it
so im happy they can bomb me..and send losy soldiers wich cant fight without airstikes
What?! Your from Ukraine?
Okay IF you had the guts to nuke America- 1. An AA-Missile would hopefully blow your shitty-ass nuke out of the sky- 2. If you did land one on our soil their would be serious political back-lash and 3.
...Wait...I bet you were kidding, right?
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What?! Your from Ukraine?
Okay IF you had the guts to nuke America- 1. An AA-Missile would hopefully blow your shitty-ass nuke out of the sky- 2. If you did land one on our soil their would be serious political back-lash and 3.
...Wait...I bet you were kidding, right?
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I'm pretty sure those AA's are still under construction, and they arent even positive if they'll work. Anyhow, get a backpack nuke and it sort of eliminates that protection, lol.
And zent, who were you mocking, me or the other dude?
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
No, it seems to be the anti-war types who are using one line thinking to say the war was unjustified. Before the war, they challenged Iraq's ties to terrorism. They claimed the war wasn't justified because there were no terrorist ties there. They made that argument because everyone knows Iraq had WMD, and everyone expected they would be used or easily found. But now that ties to terrorists have been proven, but no stockpiles of WMDs have been found yet (although small bits of WMD have been found and the fact there were programs has been established), the anti-war types have changed their arguments against the war to WMD.
And for proof your assertion is wrong, this was from the 2003 state of the union speech made in Jan 2003 (made months before the war).
well the amusing thing is, even president bush is starting to make jokes about not being able to find WMD's. So I dont think they'll be found anytime soon.
And ya, those torture things are pretty sick and twisted. But in America they pretty much do the same thing to the unborn.
"The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didn't exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis
"If a mother can kill her own child, what is left before I kill you and you kill me?" -Mother Teresa when talking about abortion after accepting the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979
I fully believe there are WMD there. Just cause they can't find them does not mean there not there.
Saddam was in a hole in the ground under a house. What else could the bury like that.
I fully support all there doing, because if we did not do something now it would be allot worse then it is now.
And with ppl that think, "O were are the bombs!" Who cares. They don't have to have them to be a threat. Look at 9/11.
But on a side note for those who think Bush maybe off a little there might be a reason.
HEhe..
"My precious...."
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