"impose ones own issues" are you for real man? 'hypocracy".... you need to get out buddy.. this is all way to real for you . Thanks for your totally smartzors contribution though. Im beginning to see why people dont like to stand up against the flow .
/The Kromulance of your speechitude has imbiggened me.
No matter what improvements they make to this game, i will not even contemplate coming back to play me level 42 shaman until they have officially announced that the duping and credit frauds have been fixed and resolved.
In its current state your just looking to get kicked in the nuts once they do fix it . Go to Silky Venom and read all the posts about this and the silence from the devs is deafening.
So yeah forget playing this game till at least that is fixed.
I always get a chuckle out of those kinds of posts...some people just cannot accept that others disagree with their opinions on something. I could very well end up playing this game again in the near future and if I decide that I really like it and post about it I am going to be accused of marketing for the game? LOL, hows that tunnel vision treating you.
Of course when someone tries to dismiss earnestly displeased consumers of complaining about nothing. It's basically summing up Sigil's misfortunes as some unexplainable phenomena, and that Vanguard can't quite possibly have all the problems that people are complaining about.
As far as the marketing accusations goes, "I re-subscribed and to my amazement" does seem to be the new trend, as lethargic as it is. It's silly to believe Sigil is paying anyone out of pocket to post on MMORPG.com, but there are behavior trends that Sigil spark at time that could work for them, but usually bites them in the ass. The whole spiritual successor to EQ, Vision crowd in the past, the whole "good enough for release" crowd after that, and now we're entering a phase of supporters encouraging re-subscriptions due to Vanguard being miraculously better somehow.
You know what's sad is? Vanguard might actually be better after the re-launch and SOE's involvement, but with all the premature encouragement of re-subscriptions without the game having actually changed much, a lot of people are going to re-subscribe to the same disappointments whereas they might've actually liked the game once real overhauls were done to it. So what's the next call going to be after the re-subscriber opportunity is blown by the kind of miraculous mess the OP insinuates about Vanguard? Re-re-subscribe, please?
I see your point Sepher, that makes sense. I can see where it stems from but it always seemed a little overboard to flat out say that someone is marketing for Sigil or the "Hi Brad" when someone says they are trying again and like it.
What you are saying about comments that its "amazing" now compared to launch I do understand though. It just seems like whenever anyone has anything positive to say about Vanguard they are bashed into oblivion and eventually downright insulted.
Hopefully there are changes in the future that make the game better for its players though. Eventhough I tried it and left, I wouldnt wish failure on those involved with the game, even if mistakes were made. Its just a game afterall, and its a business on their end, companies do what they feel they need to promote a game...even if they may not have chosen the best methods
"impose ones own issues" are you for real man? 'hypocracy".... you need to get out buddy.. this is all way to real for you . Thanks for your totally smartzors contribution though. Im beginning to see why people dont like to stand up against the flow .
/The Kromulance of your speechitude has imbiggened me.
What? You thought you had an original thought towards Vanguard completely impersonal to yourself, and there was no chance of yourself being as typical as everyone else around here? Pfft.
I was just saying, your post would've been perceived as neutral had you not attacked the displeased masses in an attempt to discredit their own opinions of the game, simply because you have an unfavorable one. It'd take quite a bit of weeding to get through to the true message of your post, which is, "If you had problems with Vanguard before, it isn't completely outside of the realm of possibility that Sigil has resolved enough issues for you to like the game."
That's always been the positive message, eh? I just personally believe it's too soon to call upon re-subscribers en masse, or do anything to encourage the behavior. Vanguard will benefit much more in the long run if a majority of its' second chances are given after the relaunch.
sepher hit the nail on the head with his comments. I hold the same opinions.
However it seems odd to think a company wouldn't hype a product in places such as this. It's not a conspiracy that some people may have connections with the game who post in places like this. It just seems common sense to get people to hype and defend the game in places like this.
Sure, put my tin foil hat on... heh
Seriously. If you released a product and it was being slagged off in highly visted forums (not just talking about here im talking about lots of different sites). Wouldn't you get people to start defending your product??
For one, do you think nobody from the development of Vanguard has thought?
"Hmm wonder how the game i help create is being taken by the players??"
Sepher is spot on... you fans follow trends and say the same spiel like clockwork... Brad send you a master letter and you guys just run a thesaurus program over it for some degree of variety?
You seem to be spot on about the fact that there are trends but even though being sarcastic, the second part of your statement is probably very off base.
From following this game since its launch (never paid attention before for whatever reason) and seeing the complaints, the fan hype, the issues etc, it is very clear..to me at least...that there are a lot of people playing the game that want to enjoy it. The bashers are taking a toll on them and they are probably getting sick of them which makes them overreact in a lot of situations.
When there are good solid changes in the game (from what I can gather, and have seen briefly, there have been, not earth shattering, but there have been advancements made) the players get excited. They want the people that left, former guild members, friends, to try it again in hopes that they will stay.
Its a pretty common thing to happen, it happens with just about anything people enjoy, how many times have you been told my a friend that "you HAVE to watch this show! Its the BEST! Even if last season sucked, its great now!!"
"impose ones own issues" are you for real man? 'hypocracy".... you need to get out buddy.. this is all way to real for you . Thanks for your totally smartzors contribution though. Im beginning to see why people dont like to stand up against the flow .
/The Kromulance of your speechitude has imbiggened me.
What? You thought you had an original thought towards Vanguard completely impersonal to yourself, and there was no chance of yourself being as typical as everyone else around here? Pfft.
I was just saying, your post would've been perceived as neutral had you not attacked the displeased masses in an attempt to discredit their own opinions of the game, simply because you have an unfavorable one. It'd take quite a bit of weeding to get through to the true message of your post, which is, "If you had problems with Vanguard before, it isn't completely outside of the realm of possibility that Sigil has resolved enough issues for you to like the game."
That's always been the positive message, eh? I just personally believe it's too soon to call upon re-subscribers en masse, or do anything to encourage the behavior. Vanguard will benefit much more in the long run if a majority of its' second chances are given after the relaunch. My OP is what you call an attack? ... grow some skin man ... it was my opinion regarding the negative posts i have read on this board. And my original message says that the game is a lot better then it was .. And it is.
I don't play the game buddy.. So how is my opinion affecting their enjoyment? Not like I am dissing the game in the chat channels.
Oh yeah, wait a minute, you want the whole world to think that shit doesn't stink... I played the Emporer's New Clothes with Vanguard a few months back... Once bitten twice shy. I trust a few folks on this site for their objectivity... Coldmeat is one of them... some proselytizer that just signed up out of the blue to spread the gospel, ain't having one iota of an affect on me.
And it was folks just like you, that said how great the game was...during beta, during release... constantly... So I don't trust one thing you blind folks say... A little less bullshit, and a little more truth, would have done this game a lot of good.
Look on the bright side... Brad now gets to try out real marketing. It is easy as pie to preach to the converted. It takes someone with real talent to convert the heathens... I will say it flat out.
Brad hasn't got what it takes. He is too used to leading the blind. I know this, because of what he has said in the past, and what he continues to say.
The game's not being advertised for one simple reason. The management feel the game is to far from completion/polish. With their limited dollars they don't want to attact new tryers or get people to return when the game will turn them off AGAIN.
A lot of what i read on these boards almost prevented me from returning but im glad common sense prevailed and i decided to ignore what ive read and re-try it out for myself. (Always the best way to determine if a game is right for you)
Have a level 13 Orc Shaman (good soloing choice btw) on the team PvP server (yea i know, still a noob) but im having a ball on him The graphics were choppy at first but the game seams to cache itself as you play or something (yes, it does) it runs smoother as you play/relog into the same areas. (What kind of framerates you seeing?) All in All the performance has improved greatly and i think im gonna stick it out for the long haul =D. (Great news, since I might one day try it again)
If your considering checking it out for the first time or even comming back for a second look I highly recommend you do so. (you should have stopped your post right here)
Ignore all the "pissy hate folk" that are still beating on it. (Here you throw down the gauntlet and invite people to challenge you because you are saying that since they dislike the game they are being "pissy haters"....maybe their complaints were legit?)
I think thier just toting about a grudge from that craptacular release that the game had. (well, no doubt that's the reason)
Felt so strongly about this that i opened an account here just to throw in my 2 bits. Peace =D (But see, we don't want or need you to do this. We're not big fans of people who join the forums just to post like you did...makes your motives suspect. Nothing was interesting enough to participate in the community before your revelation about VG? Also, you are not the first, nor will you be the last to post like this...
I played VG...I left VG... I might one day return to VG hence I read posts like yours to see what might have changed. Best not to bash people who disagree with you...state your opinion and move on...
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"impose ones own issues" are you for real man? 'hypocracy".... you need to get out buddy.. this is all way to real for you . Thanks for your totally smartzors contribution though. Im beginning to see why people dont like to stand up against the flow .
/The Kromulance of your speechitude has imbiggened me.
What? You thought you had an original thought towards Vanguard completely impersonal to yourself, and there was no chance of yourself being as typical as everyone else around here? Pfft.
I was just saying, your post would've been perceived as neutral had you not attacked the displeased masses in an attempt to discredit their own opinions of the game, simply because you have an unfavorable one. It'd take quite a bit of weeding to get through to the true message of your post, which is, "If you had problems with Vanguard before, it isn't completely outside of the realm of possibility that Sigil has resolved enough issues for you to like the game."
That's always been the positive message, eh? I just personally believe it's too soon to call upon re-subscribers en masse, or do anything to encourage the behavior. Vanguard will benefit much more in the long run if a majority of its' second chances are given after the relaunch. My OP is what you call an attack? ... grow some skin man ... it was my opinion regarding the negative posts i have read on this board. And my original message says that the game is a lot better then it was .. And it is. "pissy hate folk"? What would you call that if not an attack, eloquence? You know what these forums are like, but you picked up a stick and poked a bee hive anyway.
I'm not attacking you, I was just commenting on how I understand your deeper message and how it is a good message; just it's apart of a greater, premature trend that's attempting to challenge all the issues Vanguard had at launch. Vanguard isn't ready for that; the game is better in some aspects, worse in others, overall better but still not so much that former and new players alike should be told miracle improvements are already present when Sigil hasn't even detailed their re-launch initiative.
I do not post here often, more of a lurker... I read posts and often judge many of my game choices by the many diverse opinions on game that are on these boards. But I sorta felt this once I need to step in. I am an old timer, played MANY different MMO's ranging from beta testing Meridian 59 (Pre-EQ) to World of Warcraft and now Vanguard. I am not going to say Vanguard is a great game, I do see many flaws in the system, though I would like to say it is a fun game. It has the sense of mystery I have been missing from many games. I understand that many people are upset this game did not ship in working condition, and sadly this is becoming more and more common, I mean I remember the fiasco that was Horizons... believe me it was much worse.. not one thing on the box was implemented. And yet the game in many ways was still fun. I honestly think that if people put away all the hype and just tried the game for what was there, not what you think should be there you might have some fun too.
That having been said, and before I am flamed, no game is for everyone. But why tell people of a differing opinion that they are crazy and that they really don't like the game. In all honestly, you might find a game that many people hate but for some reason it just fills that little spot you've been looking for. Vanguard Fanboi's and Vanguard Haters... you all do the game a disservice. A Fanboi's goes on about how the game is perfect and you are just not playing it right, or your computer sucks.... when a developer listens to this, they make no changes. A Hater does everything they can to ruin the game, get people to stay away. Which then destroys any capital the company may have had to actually move forward and make the game better. Now, I realize all of this has been said many many times. But please, why not just let people decide for themselves. Sometimes fun is to be had where you least expect it.
Right now what we need is for the devs to know that if they do get it right, there will be people to appreciate the results. Not people that will just try to keep people away for what they percieve to be a horrible game. Which again is an opinion. We see games brought out that are simply re-skins of an already existing formula, and we are seeing it more often. This is for one reason, and you all know what it is. When a new project is brought out, even when it is something that is somewhat new, if it is not perfect at release, it is pounced upon by the haters, and DOOOOOOOOM sayers. This does not benefit the MMO Community at all. Nor does the release of only partially finished products. However, our reactions to these new games will determine what companies will do in the future, and if we do not support and "different" style of game we will wind up with 100 WoW clones and nothing new or exiting. Vanguard... new... no... but at least it is not just another WoW.
This all said and done, I play VG because I am having fun. Will I play it forever, no probably not. AoC and WAR have my interest, and perhaps even STO. I yearn for something innovative. Even though it seems games will become overly simplified to the point of complete stagnation. Play yours games, enjoy them, but please stop telling people they are not having fun because you think they shouldn't be.
NOTE: My post is not directed at anyone in particular, just a rant that quite frankly makes me feel better
Greetings, I do not post here often, more of a lurker... I read posts and often judge many of my game choices by the many diverse opinions on game that are on these boards. But I sorta felt this once I need to step in. I am an old timer, played MANY different MMO's ranging from beta testing Meridian 59 (Pre-EQ) to World of Warcraft and now Vanguard. I am not going to say Vanguard is a great game, I do see many flaws in the system, though I would like to say it is a fun game. It has the sense of mystery I have been missing from many games. I understand that many people are upset this game did not ship in working condition, and sadly this is becoming more and more common, I mean I remember the fiasco that was Horizons... believe me it was much worse.. not one thing on the box was implemented. And yet the game in many ways was still fun. I honestly think that if people put away all the hype and just tried the game for what was there, not what you think should be there you might have some fun too. That having been said, and before I am flamed, no game is for everyone. But why tell people of a differing opinion that they are crazy and that they really don't like the game. In all honestly, you might find a game that many people hate but for some reason it just fills that little spot you've been looking for. Vanguard Fanboi's and Vanguard Haters... you all do the game a disservice. A Fanboi's goes on about how the game is perfect and you are just not playing it right, or your computer sucks.... when a developer listens to this, they make no changes. A Hater does everything they can to ruin the game, get people to stay away. Which then destroys any capital the company may have had to actually move forward and make the game better. Now, I realize all of this has been said many many times. But please, why not just let people decide for themselves. Sometimes fun is to be had where you least expect it. Right now what we need is for the devs to know that if they do get it right, there will be people to appreciate the results. Not people that will just try to keep people away for what they percieve to be a horrible game. Which again is an opinion. We see games brought out that are simply re-skins of an already existing formula, and we are seeing it more often. This is for one reason, and you all know what it is. When a new project is brought out, even when it is something that is somewhat new, if it is not perfect at release, it is pounced upon by the haters, and DOOOOOOOOM sayers. This does not benefit the MMO Community at all. Nor does the release of only partially finished products. However, our reactions to these new games will determine what companies will do in the future, and if we do not support and "different" style of game we will wind up with 100 WoW clones and nothing new or exiting. Vanguard... new... no... but at least it is not just another WoW. This all said and done, I play VG because I am having fun. Will I play it forever, no probably not. AoC and WAR have my interest, and perhaps even STO. I yearn for something innovative. Even though it seems games will become overly simplified to the point of complete stagnation. Play yours games, enjoy them, but please stop telling people they are not having fun because you think they shouldn't be. NOTE: My post is not directed at anyone in particular, just a rant that quite frankly makes me feel better This is just my 2 coppers Averros
Why do people who like it. Keep telling those who don't "stop telling us we are not having fun".
Nobody's said you're lieing and the games no fun for you. Just that the game hasn't changed, give it six months then come back and say how great it is. Till then its beta.
Oh and the place where developers listen is called the test server. heh
Greetings, I do not post here often, more of a lurker... I read posts and often judge many of my game choices by the many diverse opinions on game that are on these boards. But I sorta felt this once I need to step in. I am an old timer, played MANY different MMO's ranging from beta testing Meridian 59 (Pre-EQ) to World of Warcraft and now Vanguard. I am not going to say Vanguard is a great game, I do see many flaws in the system, though I would like to say it is a fun game. It has the sense of mystery I have been missing from many games. I understand that many people are upset this game did not ship in working condition, and sadly this is becoming more and more common, I mean I remember the fiasco that was Horizons... believe me it was much worse.. not one thing on the box was implemented. And yet the game in many ways was still fun. I honestly think that if people put away all the hype and just tried the game for what was there, not what you think should be there you might have some fun too. That having been said, and before I am flamed, no game is for everyone. But why tell people of a differing opinion that they are crazy and that they really don't like the game. In all honestly, you might find a game that many people hate but for some reason it just fills that little spot you've been looking for. Vanguard Fanboi's and Vanguard Haters... you all do the game a disservice. A Fanboi's goes on about how the game is perfect and you are just not playing it right, or your computer sucks.... when a developer listens to this, they make no changes. A Hater does everything they can to ruin the game, get people to stay away. Which then destroys any capital the company may have had to actually move forward and make the game better. Now, I realize all of this has been said many many times. But please, why not just let people decide for themselves. Sometimes fun is to be had where you least expect it. Right now what we need is for the devs to know that if they do get it right, there will be people to appreciate the results. Not people that will just try to keep people away for what they percieve to be a horrible game. Which again is an opinion. We see games brought out that are simply re-skins of an already existing formula, and we are seeing it more often. This is for one reason, and you all know what it is. When a new project is brought out, even when it is something that is somewhat new, if it is not perfect at release, it is pounced upon by the haters, and DOOOOOOOOM sayers. This does not benefit the MMO Community at all. Nor does the release of only partially finished products. However, our reactions to these new games will determine what companies will do in the future, and if we do not support and "different" style of game we will wind up with 100 WoW clones and nothing new or exiting. Vanguard... new... no... but at least it is not just another WoW. This all said and done, I play VG because I am having fun. Will I play it forever, no probably not. AoC and WAR have my interest, and perhaps even STO. I yearn for something innovative. Even though it seems games will become overly simplified to the point of complete stagnation. Play yours games, enjoy them, but please stop telling people they are not having fun because you think they shouldn't be. NOTE: My post is not directed at anyone in particular, just a rant that quite frankly makes me feel better This is just my 2 coppers Averros
Why do people who like it. Keep telling those who don't "stop telling us we are not having fun".
Nobody's said you're lieing and the games no fun for you. Just that the game hasn't changed, give it six months then come back and say how great it is. Till then its beta.
Oh and the place where developers listen is called the test server. heh
Well, to be honest, the reason is because we are actually told we are not having fun. I cannot comment on whether or not the game has changed.. but I will note that I do not have the performance issues that everyone claims to have. Honestly in six months I am sure I will come back and won't be playing this game. I have a very low attention span when it comes to MMO's. As for being in Beta, I never said it wasn't.. In fact I can note many places that I see need improvemeny... but I don't mind giving them a little time to work on it. Who knows, maybe in six months I will still be playing.
Note: Sorry, I've been looking for the specific posts where I have seen the "You do not like vG cause it sucks" statements made.
Yup .. just like the title states . Lost it all in one big bang playing eve last week and decided to throw in the towell and re-try Vanguard. Talk about a great decision. A lot of what i read on these boards almost prevented me from returning but im glad common sense prevailed and i decided to ignore what ive read and re-try it out for myself. Have a level 13 Orc Shaman on the team PvP server (yea i know, still a noob) but im having a ball on him . The graphics were choppy at first but the game seams to cache itself as you play or something ,.. it runs smoother as you play/relog into the same areas. All in All the performance has improved greatly and i think im gonna stick it out for the long haul =D. If your considering checking it out for the first time or even comming back for a second look I highly recommend you do so . Ignore all the "pissy hate folk" that are still beating on it. I think thier just toting about a grudge from that craptacular release that the game had. Felt so strongly about this that i opened an account here just to throw in my 2 bits. Peace =D
So.. you made it all the way to 13? Well done. I enjoyed the game to 13 as well.. it still had that "new game" shine and everything was a new experience. Sadly, as you will soon learn for yourself, you are approaching the point where you will no longer experience anything "new" Every encounter will play out exactly like an encounter you've already had ( or more likely 10000 encounters you've already had ).
Despite the common misconception, Vanguard's problems are not it's poor performance and bugs.. it is it's gameplay and content. People are willing to take an amazing amount of abuse from a game as long as it delivers challenge and excitement.. Vanguard simply doesn't.
But enjoy the newness factor while it lasts.. then go find something else to play.
Sadly, I think one of the things that discredits almost ALL positive comments regarding the game is the fact that Brad has repeatedly and openly expressed his use of viral marketing tactics.
Think about it. I'd go out on a limb and say 80% (totally imaginary estimate) of the people who post on this board have at least tried Vanguard at one point or another. Most didn't like it, and are not ashamed to give you detailed lists as to what they disliked about the game. The summarized list is usually...
1) Performance issues.
2) Crap release.
3) Empty worlds/long travel times.
4) Bugs, CTD's.
5) Missing promised content months after release.
6) The fact they nerfed classes before they fixed performance issues.
Those are some of the common ones, but obviously there are plenty more problems I've failed to document.
But, just as sepher said, and even if you just observe the boards enough, you notice certain trends. Every 2 weeks or so, there seems to be some new wave of tactics promoting the game's greatness. At first, it was just the downright, blatant lying (This game has no performance issues, it runs perfect, don't listen to anyone who says it doesn't! Try VG!). Then it went to the try-it-for-yourself. (No one's opinion should matter but your own. That's why you should buy and try before making an opinion on the game). After this, Brad wrote his first apology, similar to a Smedley style thing. (We made some mistakes, but Vanguard is still the best game out there...and you should try it...please?). Then came the discredit approach. (Don't listen to the stupid haters, they're just mad it's not WoW, and bitter SWG vets) Now we've moved onto the convert approach. (Vanguard once sucked, but I've given it another try and welcomed it into my life, and it's absolutely amazing! You should see how much better it's gotten since release!)
It's not so much that people are posting positively, but there are suspect factors. The posting styles seem to mimic one another. They're often done by new accounts (How often do you see a 1000+ poster account preaching of Vanguard's greatness?) or lurkers who have less than 20 posts total. Specific examples are almost never given as to what has improved, but it's just "better" all around. Then, of course, there's the fact Brad announced a more aggressive viral marketing campaign.
So forgive me if I take many positive comments with a grain of salt, but when you know there's someone paying people to hype a game, it's much more difficult to take things for face value. I think the gameplay needs to speak for itself; people will find out on their own from close friends if a game is truly awesome long before they take a completely random, unestablished person's word for it.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Originally posted by Nostaphos Yup .. just like the title states . Lost it all in one big bang playing eve last week and decided to throw in the towell and re-try Vanguard. Talk about a great decision. A lot of what i read on these boards almost prevented me from returning but im glad common sense prevailed and i decided to ignore what ive read and re-try it out for myself. Have a level 13 Orc Shaman on the team PvP server (yea i know, still a noob) but im having a ball on him . The graphics were choppy at first but the game seams to cache itself as you play or something ,.. it runs smoother as you play/relog into the same areas. All in All the performance has improved greatly and i think im gonna stick it out for the long haul =D. If your considering checking it out for the first time or even comming back for a second look I highly recommend you do so . Ignore all the "pissy hate folk" that are still beating on it. I think thier just toting about a grudge from that craptacular release that the game had. Felt so strongly about this that i opened an account here just to throw in my 2 bits. Peace =D
There is a lot of moaners on this forum, they dont like VG cos you have to work for everything.
Hence why games like LOTR where there is no challenge get high ratings.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
There is a lot of moaners on this forum, they dont like VG cos you have to work for everything. Hence why games like LOTR where there is no challenge get high ratings.
And yet Vanguard, which is among the least challenging MMOs out there, consistently gets low ratings. Seems to be a flaw in your theory.
And again, because this confuses so many people... hours of repeating easy, slow motion battles is not challenging or "hardcore." It's time consuming and tedious. Vanguard requires patience.. not skill.
I find it silly for a bunch of people that hate or dislike a game to sit around bashing it. This along with the Star Wars revenge should stop, it is not healthy and it wont help. You can hate about something but it is not gonna make anything better. I would say stop bashing it every few minutes and let people be.
As for all of the people ganging up on the OP, stop if you can muster up enough coolness. Just because someone hypes a game they like does not mean they are working for the company or are tricking anyone or on any trends. If it does then I never want to see a single on of you who lash back at the OP ever hype a game you like. If you do however hype a game you like that someone else feels should have something, maybe it best 30 people come and lob forum grenades at ya?
The simple point being, some people even in this day and age enjoy games and hype them. Some are just bitter and have a very ugly anger that is causing them to lash out at the people enjoying or trying to hype the game. Anger and meanness is very ugly and should not be sitting on your should telling ya what to do.
OP I think i just might try Vanguard when i get my new video card in a month or so. If I am able to get it perhaps I pm ya and we go crush baddies together, maybe my brother will join us and we can crush even more!
Guys just read my big long writing at the bottom, it makes stuff clear. If you hyped a game you truly enjoyed, would ya feel bad if a bunch of people ganged up on ya?
No, it won't and never will feel good, it just goes and helps ruin a persons day. Not cool and never will be cool and will always be fueled by either anger or the mistake of not thinking who your hurting.
Be cool to people, and try and stay cool that way you never have to regret making someone feel bad. Don't take what ya got granted because some people never get to feel happy. We get to play these great MMOs and surf a good site. Be thankful for what ya got and next time ya feel down imagine a fat sea otter waddling with a pillow and a night cap. Bam! smiles!
I find it silly for a bunch of people that hate or dislike a game to sit around bashing it. This along with the Star Wars revenge should stop, it is not healthy and it wont help. You can hate about something but it is not gonna make anything better. I would say stop bashing it every few minutes and let people be.
As for all of the people ganging up on the OP, stop if you can muster up enough coolness. Just because someone hypes a game they like does not mean they are working for the company or are tricking anyone or on any trends. If it does then I never want to see a single on of you who lash back at the OP ever hype a game you like. If you do however hype a game you like that someone else feels should have something, maybe it best 30 people come and lob forum grenades at ya?
The simple point being, some people even in this day and age enjoy games and hype them. Some are just bitter and have a very ugly anger that is causing them to lash out at the people enjoying or trying to hype the game. Anger and meanness is very ugly and should not be sitting on your should telling ya what to do.
OP I think i just might try Vanguard when i get my new video card in a month or so. If I am able to get it perhaps I pm ya and we go crush baddies together, maybe my brother will join us and we can crush even more!
Guys just read my big long writing at the bottom, it makes stuff clear. If you hyped a game you truly enjoyed, would ya feel bad if a bunch of people ganged up on ya?
No, it won't and never will feel good, it just goes and helps ruin a persons day. Not cool and never will be cool and will always be fueled by either anger or the mistake of not thinking who your hurting.
This is a null point. No one really cares if someone is just expressing their joy of the game. But that's not the way it usually goes.
Example 1: I just tried VG, and I love it. It's my favorite game ever. Don't listen to all the stupid WoW kiddies, they're just mad that this game requires skill to play.
Examples 2: I've been playing VG since release, and this game runs perfectly for me. As long as you aren't trying to play this game on some $500 piece of crap computer, it runs awesome.
Example 3: VG isn't the best game out there, but it's still really fun. Try it for yourself, the haters don't even know what they're talking about anyway.
Just because someone bashes this game doesn't mean they truly hate it, or the people playing it. What it does mean is that the current state of the game is dis-satisfactory to the person, and they want to express this to other potential customers.
Sorry, but telling someone not to dislike a game because they might hurt someone's feelings is definitely not going to fly here.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
The irony (and sad thing actually) is that theres probably lots of people who genuinely enjoy playing vanguard,despite all its faults,but their opinion will always be questioned because Brad Mcquaid openly admits he likes viral marketing tactics.
Brads kind of shot himself in the foot by blabbing about it
Cym, I am sorry but you are wrong in saying the bashing and hate is because they did not get a satisfactory experience. Hating on a game for years Star Wars, and over a few months Vanguard on the same old forum is hate.
Also if someone makes a post that says don't believe the haters, they mean haters. If you come to the post and bash him or talk hate on the game, you are a hater.
If I go into a store and steal something I am stealing and it is that simple. I can say "I was just borrowing till i got bored of it then I will send it back." but I am still a thief.
If ya post hate on a game board for months when not many new people show up to it, your just bashing a game. You won't make the hardcore people leave the game its obvious by the posts. So who you making leave with your "unsatisfactory bashing to save people from VG" no one is the answer. Your pushing out more anger and hate wasting more of your emotions and time on something that is so small and trivial. Go enjoy a f2p or an MMO that you don't want to bash or hate on. It is a ton more fun I assure you, it also does not hurt peoples feelings.
The simple truth in the reason why what i say wont fly here is that I am being level headed. I am not bashing, I am not hating and I am not a fan, I am a third party trying to calm all the anger and hate. The rest are clouded by either hate, anger or both. This goes for both sides, the defenders that loose venom and hate and the attackers that do the same.
Be cool to people, and try and stay cool that way you never have to regret making someone feel bad. Don't take what ya got granted because some people never get to feel happy. We get to play these great MMOs and surf a good site. Be thankful for what ya got and next time ya feel down imagine a fat sea otter waddling with a pillow and a night cap. Bam! smiles!
I find it silly for a bunch of people that hate or dislike a game to sit around bashing it.
I find it silly for Sigil to sponser official forums for years where most other mmos and their playerbases were routinely reviled as noobs, casuals, kiddies, people who want things handed to them, dumb, lazy people, etc, and then be surprised they made a lot of opinionated enemies in the process. Sigil and its following of elitist "go back to some easy game" crowd have no standing to cry foul over their game taking a beat down in the arena of public opinion. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Comments
/The Kromulance of your speechitude has imbiggened me.
In its current state your just looking to get kicked in the nuts once they do fix it . Go to Silky Venom and read all the posts about this and the silence from the devs is deafening.
So yeah forget playing this game till at least that is fixed.
As far as the marketing accusations goes, "I re-subscribed and to my amazement" does seem to be the new trend, as lethargic as it is. It's silly to believe Sigil is paying anyone out of pocket to post on MMORPG.com, but there are behavior trends that Sigil spark at time that could work for them, but usually bites them in the ass. The whole spiritual successor to EQ, Vision crowd in the past, the whole "good enough for release" crowd after that, and now we're entering a phase of supporters encouraging re-subscriptions due to Vanguard being miraculously better somehow.
You know what's sad is? Vanguard might actually be better after the re-launch and SOE's involvement, but with all the premature encouragement of re-subscriptions without the game having actually changed much, a lot of people are going to re-subscribe to the same disappointments whereas they might've actually liked the game once real overhauls were done to it. So what's the next call going to be after the re-subscriber opportunity is blown by the kind of miraculous mess the OP insinuates about Vanguard? Re-re-subscribe, please?
What you are saying about comments that its "amazing" now compared to launch I do understand though. It just seems like whenever anyone has anything positive to say about Vanguard they are bashed into oblivion and eventually downright insulted.
Hopefully there are changes in the future that make the game better for its players though. Eventhough I tried it and left, I wouldnt wish failure on those involved with the game, even if mistakes were made. Its just a game afterall, and its a business on their end, companies do what they feel they need to promote a game...even if they may not have chosen the best methods
I was just saying, your post would've been perceived as neutral had you not attacked the displeased masses in an attempt to discredit their own opinions of the game, simply because you have an unfavorable one. It'd take quite a bit of weeding to get through to the true message of your post, which is, "If you had problems with Vanguard before, it isn't completely outside of the realm of possibility that Sigil has resolved enough issues for you to like the game."
That's always been the positive message, eh? I just personally believe it's too soon to call upon re-subscribers en masse, or do anything to encourage the behavior. Vanguard will benefit much more in the long run if a majority of its' second chances are given after the relaunch.
sepher hit the nail on the head with his comments. I hold the same opinions.
However it seems odd to think a company wouldn't hype a product in places such as this. It's not a conspiracy that some people may have connections with the game who post in places like this. It just seems common sense to get people to hype and defend the game in places like this.
Sure, put my tin foil hat on... heh
Seriously. If you released a product and it was being slagged off in highly visted forums (not just talking about here im talking about lots of different sites). Wouldn't you get people to start defending your product??
For one, do you think nobody from the development of Vanguard has thought?
"Hmm wonder how the game i help create is being taken by the players??"
From following this game since its launch (never paid attention before for whatever reason) and seeing the complaints, the fan hype, the issues etc, it is very clear..to me at least...that there are a lot of people playing the game that want to enjoy it. The bashers are taking a toll on them and they are probably getting sick of them which makes them overreact in a lot of situations.
When there are good solid changes in the game (from what I can gather, and have seen briefly, there have been, not earth shattering, but there have been advancements made) the players get excited. They want the people that left, former guild members, friends, to try it again in hopes that they will stay.
Its a pretty common thing to happen, it happens with just about anything people enjoy, how many times have you been told my a friend that "you HAVE to watch this show! Its the BEST! Even if last season sucked, its great now!!"
I was just saying, your post would've been perceived as neutral had you not attacked the displeased masses in an attempt to discredit their own opinions of the game, simply because you have an unfavorable one. It'd take quite a bit of weeding to get through to the true message of your post, which is, "If you had problems with Vanguard before, it isn't completely outside of the realm of possibility that Sigil has resolved enough issues for you to like the game."
That's always been the positive message, eh? I just personally believe it's too soon to call upon re-subscribers en masse, or do anything to encourage the behavior. Vanguard will benefit much more in the long run if a majority of its' second chances are given after the relaunch. My OP is what you call an attack? ... grow some skin man ... it was my opinion regarding the negative posts i have read on this board. And my original message says that the game is a lot better then it was .. And it is.
Oh yeah, wait a minute, you want the whole world to think that shit doesn't stink... I played the Emporer's New Clothes with Vanguard a few months back... Once bitten twice shy. I trust a few folks on this site for their objectivity... Coldmeat is one of them... some proselytizer that just signed up out of the blue to spread the gospel, ain't having one iota of an affect on me.
And it was folks just like you, that said how great the game was...during beta, during release... constantly... So I don't trust one thing you blind folks say... A little less bullshit, and a little more truth, would have done this game a lot of good.
Look on the bright side... Brad now gets to try out real marketing. It is easy as pie to preach to the converted. It takes someone with real talent to convert the heathens... I will say it flat out.
Brad hasn't got what it takes. He is too used to leading the blind. I know this, because of what he has said in the past, and what he continues to say.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I was just saying, your post would've been perceived as neutral had you not attacked the displeased masses in an attempt to discredit their own opinions of the game, simply because you have an unfavorable one. It'd take quite a bit of weeding to get through to the true message of your post, which is, "If you had problems with Vanguard before, it isn't completely outside of the realm of possibility that Sigil has resolved enough issues for you to like the game."
That's always been the positive message, eh? I just personally believe it's too soon to call upon re-subscribers en masse, or do anything to encourage the behavior. Vanguard will benefit much more in the long run if a majority of its' second chances are given after the relaunch. My OP is what you call an attack? ... grow some skin man ... it was my opinion regarding the negative posts i have read on this board. And my original message says that the game is a lot better then it was .. And it is. "pissy hate folk"? What would you call that if not an attack, eloquence? You know what these forums are like, but you picked up a stick and poked a bee hive anyway.
I'm not attacking you, I was just commenting on how I understand your deeper message and how it is a good message; just it's apart of a greater, premature trend that's attempting to challenge all the issues Vanguard had at launch. Vanguard isn't ready for that; the game is better in some aspects, worse in others, overall better but still not so much that former and new players alike should be told miracle improvements are already present when Sigil hasn't even detailed their re-launch initiative.
BLAH - delete
Greetings,
I do not post here often, more of a lurker... I read posts and often judge many of my game choices by the many diverse opinions on game that are on these boards. But I sorta felt this once I need to step in. I am an old timer, played MANY different MMO's ranging from beta testing Meridian 59 (Pre-EQ) to World of Warcraft and now Vanguard. I am not going to say Vanguard is a great game, I do see many flaws in the system, though I would like to say it is a fun game. It has the sense of mystery I have been missing from many games. I understand that many people are upset this game did not ship in working condition, and sadly this is becoming more and more common, I mean I remember the fiasco that was Horizons... believe me it was much worse.. not one thing on the box was implemented. And yet the game in many ways was still fun. I honestly think that if people put away all the hype and just tried the game for what was there, not what you think should be there you might have some fun too.
That having been said, and before I am flamed, no game is for everyone. But why tell people of a differing opinion that they are crazy and that they really don't like the game. In all honestly, you might find a game that many people hate but for some reason it just fills that little spot you've been looking for. Vanguard Fanboi's and Vanguard Haters... you all do the game a disservice. A Fanboi's goes on about how the game is perfect and you are just not playing it right, or your computer sucks.... when a developer listens to this, they make no changes. A Hater does everything they can to ruin the game, get people to stay away. Which then destroys any capital the company may have had to actually move forward and make the game better. Now, I realize all of this has been said many many times. But please, why not just let people decide for themselves. Sometimes fun is to be had where you least expect it.
Right now what we need is for the devs to know that if they do get it right, there will be people to appreciate the results. Not people that will just try to keep people away for what they percieve to be a horrible game. Which again is an opinion. We see games brought out that are simply re-skins of an already existing formula, and we are seeing it more often. This is for one reason, and you all know what it is. When a new project is brought out, even when it is something that is somewhat new, if it is not perfect at release, it is pounced upon by the haters, and DOOOOOOOOM sayers. This does not benefit the MMO Community at all. Nor does the release of only partially finished products. However, our reactions to these new games will determine what companies will do in the future, and if we do not support and "different" style of game we will wind up with 100 WoW clones and nothing new or exiting. Vanguard... new... no... but at least it is not just another WoW.
This all said and done, I play VG because I am having fun. Will I play it forever, no probably not. AoC and WAR have my interest, and perhaps even STO. I yearn for something innovative. Even though it seems games will become overly simplified to the point of complete stagnation. Play yours games, enjoy them, but please stop telling people they are not having fun because you think they shouldn't be.
NOTE: My post is not directed at anyone in particular, just a rant that quite frankly makes me feel better
This is just my 2 coppers
Averros
Why do people who like it. Keep telling those who don't "stop telling us we are not having fun".
Nobody's said you're lieing and the games no fun for you. Just that the game hasn't changed, give it six months then come back and say how great it is. Till then its beta.
Oh and the place where developers listen is called the test server. heh
Why do people who like it. Keep telling those who don't "stop telling us we are not having fun".
Nobody's said you're lieing and the games no fun for you. Just that the game hasn't changed, give it six months then come back and say how great it is. Till then its beta.
Oh and the place where developers listen is called the test server. heh
Well, to be honest, the reason is because we are actually told we are not having fun. I cannot comment on whether or not the game has changed.. but I will note that I do not have the performance issues that everyone claims to have. Honestly in six months I am sure I will come back and won't be playing this game. I have a very low attention span when it comes to MMO's. As for being in Beta, I never said it wasn't.. In fact I can note many places that I see need improvemeny... but I don't mind giving them a little time to work on it. Who knows, maybe in six months I will still be playing.
Note: Sorry, I've been looking for the specific posts where I have seen the "You do not like vG cause it sucks" statements made.
Averros
So.. you made it all the way to 13? Well done. I enjoyed the game to 13 as well.. it still had that "new game" shine and everything was a new experience. Sadly, as you will soon learn for yourself, you are approaching the point where you will no longer experience anything "new" Every encounter will play out exactly like an encounter you've already had ( or more likely 10000 encounters you've already had ).
Despite the common misconception, Vanguard's problems are not it's poor performance and bugs.. it is it's gameplay and content. People are willing to take an amazing amount of abuse from a game as long as it delivers challenge and excitement.. Vanguard simply doesn't.
But enjoy the newness factor while it lasts.. then go find something else to play.
Think about it. I'd go out on a limb and say 80% (totally imaginary estimate) of the people who post on this board have at least tried Vanguard at one point or another. Most didn't like it, and are not ashamed to give you detailed lists as to what they disliked about the game. The summarized list is usually...
1) Performance issues.
2) Crap release.
3) Empty worlds/long travel times.
4) Bugs, CTD's.
5) Missing promised content months after release.
6) The fact they nerfed classes before they fixed performance issues.
Those are some of the common ones, but obviously there are plenty more problems I've failed to document.
But, just as sepher said, and even if you just observe the boards enough, you notice certain trends. Every 2 weeks or so, there seems to be some new wave of tactics promoting the game's greatness. At first, it was just the downright, blatant lying (This game has no performance issues, it runs perfect, don't listen to anyone who says it doesn't! Try VG!). Then it went to the try-it-for-yourself. (No one's opinion should matter but your own. That's why you should buy and try before making an opinion on the game). After this, Brad wrote his first apology, similar to a Smedley style thing. (We made some mistakes, but Vanguard is still the best game out there...and you should try it...please?). Then came the discredit approach. (Don't listen to the stupid haters, they're just mad it's not WoW, and bitter SWG vets) Now we've moved onto the convert approach. (Vanguard once sucked, but I've given it another try and welcomed it into my life, and it's absolutely amazing! You should see how much better it's gotten since release!)
It's not so much that people are posting positively, but there are suspect factors. The posting styles seem to mimic one another. They're often done by new accounts (How often do you see a 1000+ poster account preaching of Vanguard's greatness?) or lurkers who have less than 20 posts total. Specific examples are almost never given as to what has improved, but it's just "better" all around. Then, of course, there's the fact Brad announced a more aggressive viral marketing campaign.
So forgive me if I take many positive comments with a grain of salt, but when you know there's someone paying people to hype a game, it's much more difficult to take things for face value. I think the gameplay needs to speak for itself; people will find out on their own from close friends if a game is truly awesome long before they take a completely random, unestablished person's word for it.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
There is a lot of moaners on this forum, they dont like VG cos you have to work for everything.
Hence why games like LOTR where there is no challenge get high ratings.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
And yet Vanguard, which is among the least challenging MMOs out there, consistently gets low ratings. Seems to be a flaw in your theory.
And again, because this confuses so many people... hours of repeating easy, slow motion battles is not challenging or "hardcore." It's time consuming and tedious. Vanguard requires patience.. not skill.
As for all of the people ganging up on the OP, stop if you can muster up enough coolness. Just because someone hypes a game they like does not mean they are working for the company or are tricking anyone or on any trends. If it does then I never want to see a single on of you who lash back at the OP ever hype a game you like. If you do however hype a game you like that someone else feels should have something, maybe it best 30 people come and lob forum grenades at ya?
The simple point being, some people even in this day and age enjoy games and hype them. Some are just bitter and have a very ugly anger that is causing them to lash out at the people enjoying or trying to hype the game. Anger and meanness is very ugly and should not be sitting on your should telling ya what to do.
OP I think i just might try Vanguard when i get my new video card in a month or so. If I am able to get it perhaps I pm ya and we go crush baddies together, maybe my brother will join us and we can crush even more!
Guys just read my big long writing at the bottom, it makes stuff clear. If you hyped a game you truly enjoyed, would ya feel bad if a bunch of people ganged up on ya?
No, it won't and never will feel good, it just goes and helps ruin a persons day. Not cool and never will be cool and will always be fueled by either anger or the mistake of not thinking who your hurting.
Be cool to people, and try and stay cool that way you never have to regret making someone feel bad. Don't take what ya got granted because some people never get to feel happy. We get to play these great MMOs and surf a good site. Be thankful for what ya got and next time ya feel down imagine a fat sea otter waddling with a pillow and a night cap. Bam! smiles!
Example 1: I just tried VG, and I love it. It's my favorite game ever. Don't listen to all the stupid WoW kiddies, they're just mad that this game requires skill to play.
Examples 2: I've been playing VG since release, and this game runs perfectly for me. As long as you aren't trying to play this game on some $500 piece of crap computer, it runs awesome.
Example 3: VG isn't the best game out there, but it's still really fun. Try it for yourself, the haters don't even know what they're talking about anyway.
Just because someone bashes this game doesn't mean they truly hate it, or the people playing it. What it does mean is that the current state of the game is dis-satisfactory to the person, and they want to express this to other potential customers.
Sorry, but telling someone not to dislike a game because they might hurt someone's feelings is definitely not going to fly here.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
The irony (and sad thing actually) is that theres probably lots of people who genuinely enjoy playing vanguard,despite all its faults,but their opinion will always be questioned because Brad Mcquaid openly admits he likes viral marketing tactics.
Brads kind of shot himself in the foot by blabbing about it
Also if someone makes a post that says don't believe the haters, they mean haters. If you come to the post and bash him or talk hate on the game, you are a hater.
If I go into a store and steal something I am stealing and it is that simple. I can say "I was just borrowing till i got bored of it then I will send it back." but I am still a thief.
If ya post hate on a game board for months when not many new people show up to it, your just bashing a game. You won't make the hardcore people leave the game its obvious by the posts. So who you making leave with your "unsatisfactory bashing to save people from VG" no one is the answer. Your pushing out more anger and hate wasting more of your emotions and time on something that is so small and trivial. Go enjoy a f2p or an MMO that you don't want to bash or hate on. It is a ton more fun I assure you, it also does not hurt peoples feelings.
The simple truth in the reason why what i say wont fly here is that I am being level headed. I am not bashing, I am not hating and I am not a fan, I am a third party trying to calm all the anger and hate. The rest are clouded by either hate, anger or both. This goes for both sides, the defenders that loose venom and hate and the attackers that do the same.
Be cool to people, and try and stay cool that way you never have to regret making someone feel bad. Don't take what ya got granted because some people never get to feel happy. We get to play these great MMOs and surf a good site. Be thankful for what ya got and next time ya feel down imagine a fat sea otter waddling with a pillow and a night cap. Bam! smiles!
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests