EQ2 gave me my hope back in SOE, it's not a bunch of retards running the show and they probably learned alot from their mistakes.. There are a few of them..
So, yeah, hopefully Vanguard will be as sweet as I wawnt it to be *cough* More solo content and an acrive dev team.
I also hope Brad learned ALOT from this. He's a visionary without the obviously needed experience in certain areas Good luck to him and I hope his next project will fulfill his dream.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW... It all sucked.
You know, i was also thinking about another statement, about how SoE let people go and rehired the ones they wanted. Any info on how much of a pay cut they had to take to keep their jobs? I bet it was HUGE, which is a pretty slezy tactic if you ask me. I'm sure they are trying to spin it that they are the saviors of peoples jobs, but they don't mention how much of a pay cut those employees took to make sure they can still feed their families Then again it is Soe we're talking about....
You know, i was also thinking about another statement, about how SoE let people go and rehired the ones they wanted. Any info on how much of a pay cut they had to take to keep their jobs? I bet it was HUGE, which is a pretty slezy tactic if you ask me. I'm sure they are trying to spin it that they are the saviors of peoples jobs, but they don't mention how much of a pay cut those employees took to make sure they can still feed their families Then again it is Soe we're talking about....
Haha, you start off by saying "I heard" which means this is an assumption, and you end being upset at something you now believe is a fact.
Originally posted by Ironman2000 You know, i was also thinking about another statement, about how SoE let people go and rehired the ones they wanted. Any info on how much of a pay cut they had to take to keep their jobs? I bet it was HUGE, which is a pretty slezy tactic if you ask me. I'm sure they are trying to spin it that they are the saviors of peoples jobs, but they don't mention how much of a pay cut those employees took to make sure they can still feed their families Then again it is Soe we're talking about....
Pay cut or no, SOE is doing them a favor and they should be glad about it. Having Vanguard on your resume will probably not get you many call backs when you're looking for work.
Brad's little paycheck as a consultant, "barely enough to eat" as someone suggested, is more than any of you make per year, stop kidding yourself. Also Brad paid himself a lot of money during the 4-5 years of Vanguard's production, money he didn't earn or deserve based on the results. I think the plan was to milk it all along, defrauding the public with an incomplete release. It has been reported that Brad was not even coming to work on a regular basis which supports this scheme.
Those of you who keep saying if SOE had not picked up Vanguard, it would have never been released, are probably right. That would have been a good thing. As it stands now, thousands have been ripped off $50 for a crappy product which was falsely marketed by both SOE and Sigil as complete and ready for release. Brad publicly admitted the game was incomplete after release and monies were collected, but no one is offering refunds?! Both companies have engaged in fraud.
Now some of you are saying SOE will turn Vanguard around because they have turned EQ2 around. What the hell are you smoking?!
EQ2 was and is a failure. It has lost 50% of it's subscriber base since release, dropping from a high of about 350k to currently 175K or so. It has never been the success SOE desired. SOE had a successful product in EQ1, and years of experience to experiment with design and poll customers prior to designing EQ2. SOE produced EQ2, a game which most players did not like, and SOE spent over two years changing every fundamental detail, even though they marketed EQ2 originally as the game players were asking for. What a load of crap! SOE is freakin clueless!
Hehe, this seems oddly familiar. Oh yeah, Verant makes EQ, SOE publishes. SOE takes over EQ. Fast forward, most Verant employees have left, and a core group form Sigil. Sigil games makes Vanguard, SOE publishes.
I wonder what they will be making when SOE is developing Vanguard 2?
I think I hit it pretty close to the mark. Give Mr. McQuaid a couple of years and he'll announce THE VISION mark 3, coming soon to a PC near you!
Agent_X7 AKA J Star [/URL] Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
You know, i was also thinking about another statement, about how SoE let people go and rehired the ones they wanted. Any info on how much of a pay cut they had to take to keep their jobs? I bet it was HUGE, which is a pretty slezy tactic if you ask me. I'm sure they are trying to spin it that they are the saviors of peoples jobs, but they don't mention how much of a pay cut those employees took to make sure they can still feed their families Then again it is Soe we're talking about....
Haha, you start off by saying "I heard" which means this is an assumption, and you end being upset at something you now believe is a fact.
Um... WHERE exactly did he say 'I heard'?
Anyway, I'm dropping Vanguard. No, it's not because I'm a SOE hater or Brad supporter; it's primarily because the friends I was playing with all unsubscribed at the beginning of May over some bit of news. If it hadn't been that news, this surely would have done it.
I had my problems with the game: lag, solo play not much of an option, couldn't get through big cities without lagging severely (which sucked moreso since that's where my trainer was), constantly getting complications while crafting (sometimes 5 or 6 in a row when i'm doing a god damn recipe that's 10 levels below my crafting level), and lag. But, there were things I liked. The settings for Qalia and Kojan (except for the damn wood elf city) were nice and new changes of pace. I like the Arabian setting and Asian setting, along with the style of armor and weapons from those areas reflecting the setting instead of just cookie cutter designs. I loved diplomacy being done in a CCG style, and doing diplomacy stuff.
Oh, another thing that I'm not sure whether I liked or didn't: the glaring similarities between the Vanguard UI and WoW UI set-ups. It felt too much like WoW's controls, yet made it easy to adapt to, having played WoW for about 2 years.
Maybe Sigil should have went to Blizzard to have them publish the game (and later buyout Sigil)?
Sooooo, the only word that comes to my mind when I read this is simply : .................AGAIN ?!
Yep, Sigil sold out and well it can only be good for Vanguard.... as I think with time spent playing WoW, Sigil forgot how to code and totally made this game possible by using the fact they were the ones who made EQ.
So to conclude : How to win in 3 steps :
1 - Make an awesome game.
2 - Sell out and be remembered as the good guys.
3 - Make a crappy game and tell people "Remember... we made (step 1 game)!!!"
You can add a loop to that if you want, cause that's what's happening.
Maybe will have to try the game again in a while. I only got the game to start with because of my wife telling me I had to have a game to play. I enjoyed lots of the game but not enough to play it enough to warrant a subscription. Maybe SOE will do something that will bring me back.
In regards to my previous post, they are bringing back 50 people, how many were on the team? My previous comment was made in regards to the way the MXO buyout went down, with the termination of the employees and then rehiring them at a much lower wage. This seems to be the standard practice at SoE, along with many lies and other deceptive practices. I mean can you all remember the froglok fiasco? the NGE? the arguments and fights over laying out their $39.99 for "The Trials of Obi Wan" expansion two weeks before they announced the NGE? Combat upgrades, updates and completely redone systems in almost EVERY game they branded as SoE? People keep telling other people give SoE the benefit of the doubt, when they don't deserve it. They have proven time after time they can NOT be trusted, and after their behavior in the past with the mishandling of almost all their games (particularly the way they want people to PAY to play games in beta) why oh why do you all keep blinding following them? I just can't believe the people that keep saying "Oh this is going to be for the best", I can't believe they can be that simple minded, blinded or just plan feeling helpless and stuck, with the way SoE has treated them, because they have put in too much time playing SoE games to go elsewhere and have to start over. I think most of those poor souls are in pure denial about the way SoE treats them for their money. It would be hilarious to me, because I used to be one of them, till I wised up and moved on, but I keep seeing them post in forums about how things are getting better, well DUH, they can't really get much worse now can they?
Honestly, we all seen this coming (at least most of us did anyway).
It is really a good thing, I don't see how the game could be any worse than what it is now and I am glad Brad isn't calling anymore shots and that they fired incompetent employees.
Where the game goes from here is anyone's guess, I doubt it will be improved to the point of becoming an enjoyable, complex, innovative mmo, which is what it was meant to be.
SOE could just surprise us all and make the game something truly great. I don't see that happening however.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
It is really a good thing, I don't see how the game could be any worse than what it is now and I am glad Brad isn't calling anymore shots and that they fired incompetent employees.
hehe NGE anyone? You have no Idea of what SOE can do Lol, and yeah It can and Will get worse .
It is really a good thing, I don't see how the game could be any worse than what it is now and I am glad Brad isn't calling anymore shots and that they fired incompetent employees.
hehe NGE anyone? You have no Idea of what SOE can do Lol, and yeah It can and Will get worse .
That's my point, VG is already an NGE. VG will proberly just crawl along with MxO and SWG if it doesn't improve. It won't die if MxO is still breathing therefore it has no where to go but up from here.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
SoE is a company that usually improve existing titles.
Look at EQ and at EQ2. They are games that where improve a LOT, based on their strong marketing team. Of course, they did a few mistakes, like SWG, or fail to improve significantly some titles like Matrix. But this is what they do best. With SWG they learn they must be carefull to not upset the existing playerbase, let's hope they don't overdo it such as in EQ. There is a fine line between respecting existing players and removing the interest from new potential players.
Will Vanguard improves? Probably.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
*Actually rolls on the floor laughing* Oh my god!!! hahahahaha i knew this day would come..well actually we all did. Today marks the day VG is officially announced for MMORPG execution by the world leading game killers....
Good job Sigil...you really do listen to the fans lol
Its dead...go play a different game...in a year it will be empty servers ran by the bugs they never fixed
I hope for the Vanguard players that this will turn out good. Personally I like how they changed EQII. I hope for you guys that they can pull it of with Vanguard too.
Dont listen to the SOE/Brad haters. People who have such a problem of letting go of something (especially the NGEhaters) are better off seeking some professional help imo. Wanting so badly for people or companies to fail is simply not normal. You dont even know the people from those companies. And this over a game!
I think SOE is a little more competent than some dreamers startup company. I never heard of this "brad" guy before I started playing this but appearently he's next to the throne of god to some people. On a different note I'm sad I wasted $50 on this game and hopefully it will be worth it in the future. Buying it was my fault though. Kind of just bought it cause it had player housing and boats... someone remind me not to buy into these bogus hypes in the future.
Personally I hope that SOE might actually be able to make Vanguard an enjoyable game. Sigil seemed to create as many bugs as they were fixing. Hopefully it doesnt take 2 years to make Vanguard enjoyable like it took SOE to make EQ2 enjoyable.
Oh and I believe it is spelled Acquires, not Aquires.
Well all I can say is game over SOE. I knew that this was always on the cards, but I had hoped that Sigil might actually hold things together. Oh well, that's that, time to go back to WoW and wait for Warhammer Online
And the bit that got me is not actually SOE. It's that they fired everyone then only kept some. Vanguard has been making good changes, but without a full team that just can't continue.
I hope for the Vanguard players that this will turn out good. Personally I like how they changed EQII. I hope for you guys that they can pull it of with Vanguard too.
Dont listen to the SOE/Brad haters. People who have such a problem of letting go of something (especially the NGEhaters) are better off seeking some professional help imo. Wanting so badly for people or companies to fail is simply not normal. You dont even know the people from those companies. And this over a game!
Seriously, yes it is normal for people to hold a grudge against a company that offered a product (in this case products) and completely changed the item to something no one wanted or payed for. Its like if someone came to your house in the middle of the night and changed your 2007 Hummer H2 into a 1998 Hundai and said to you, its ok we just helped you out with your gas problem. You would be pretty ticked off and thats why people are still mad about the NGE and similar patterns in other SoE games. The NGE litterally RIPPED apart communities of players that had played together since the game started, and not slowly, they did it OVERNIGHT. So don't go telling people not to HATE on SoE. They have good reason to hate on SoE and now Brad. Considering for 2 years of subscription fees on SWG amounted to about 400 dollars invested in a game that they enjoyed and not to mention the time invested in creating and leveling a character that were completely wiped out by one stupid idea that everyone at SoE apparently thought was a winner. SO DON'T YOU GO TELLING THE REST OF US, TO LIGHTEN UP ON SoE, I REALLY HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE TRY TO MINIMALIZE OTHER PEOPLES FEELINGS AND VIEWS, WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE ANY CLUE WHAT WAS INVOLVED AND WHAT WAS DONE. SO BEFORE YOU GO SPOUTING OFF, REMEMBER, I CAN COME OVER TO YOUR HOUSE AND EASILY SWAP A 10 SPEED BIKE FOR YOUR CAR AND SEE HOW YOU LIKE IT. Yes, its that big a deal, when people try to tell other people that SoE isn't that bad, they now and always will screw people over. Things might seem to get better, but as soon as numbers start to slip a little, they'll jump in and screw you all over again, with no consideration for the time or cash invested in what ever SoE game you play. SOE JUST DOES NOT GET IT AND APPARENTLY NEITHER DO YOU someforumguy!!!!
Comments
EQ2 gave me my hope back in SOE,
it's not a bunch of retards running the show and they probably learned alot from their mistakes.. There are a few of them..
So, yeah, hopefully Vanguard will be as sweet as I wawnt it to be *cough*
More solo content and an acrive dev team.
I also hope Brad learned ALOT from this. He's a visionary without the obviously needed experience in certain areas
Good luck to him and I hope his next project will fulfill his dream.
Played so far: 9Dragons, AO, AC, AC2, CoX, DAoC, DF, DnL, DR, DDO, Ent, EvE, EQ, EQ2, FoMK, FFO, Fury, GW, HG:L, HZ, L1, L2, M59, MU, NC1, NC2, PS, PT, R:O, RF:O, RYL, Ryzom, SL, SB, SW:G, TR, TCoS, MX:O, UO, VG, WAR, WoW...
It all sucked.
Haha, you start off by saying "I heard" which means this is an assumption, and you end being upset at something you now believe is a fact.
Pay cut or no, SOE is doing them a favor and they should be glad about it. Having Vanguard on your resume will probably not get you many call backs when you're looking for work.
WoW where do I begin?
Brad's little paycheck as a consultant, "barely enough to eat" as someone suggested, is more than any of you make per year, stop kidding yourself. Also Brad paid himself a lot of money during the 4-5 years of Vanguard's production, money he didn't earn or deserve based on the results. I think the plan was to milk it all along, defrauding the public with an incomplete release. It has been reported that Brad was not even coming to work on a regular basis which supports this scheme.
Those of you who keep saying if SOE had not picked up Vanguard, it would have never been released, are probably right. That would have been a good thing. As it stands now, thousands have been ripped off $50 for a crappy product which was falsely marketed by both SOE and Sigil as complete and ready for release. Brad publicly admitted the game was incomplete after release and monies were collected, but no one is offering refunds?! Both companies have engaged in fraud.
Now some of you are saying SOE will turn Vanguard around because they have turned EQ2 around. What the hell are you smoking?!
EQ2 was and is a failure. It has lost 50% of it's subscriber base since release, dropping from a high of about 350k to currently 175K or so. It has never been the success SOE desired. SOE had a successful product in EQ1, and years of experience to experiment with design and poll customers prior to designing EQ2. SOE produced EQ2, a game which most players did not like, and SOE spent over two years changing every fundamental detail, even though they marketed EQ2 originally as the game players were asking for. What a load of crap! SOE is freakin clueless!
I wonder what they will be making when SOE is developing Vanguard 2?
I think I hit it pretty close to the mark.
Agent_X7 AKA J Star
[/URL]
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Haha, you start off by saying "I heard" which means this is an assumption, and you end being upset at something you now believe is a fact.
Um... WHERE exactly did he say 'I heard'?Anyway, I'm dropping Vanguard. No, it's not because I'm a SOE hater or Brad supporter; it's primarily because the friends I was playing with all unsubscribed at the beginning of May over some bit of news. If it hadn't been that news, this surely would have done it.
I had my problems with the game: lag, solo play not much of an option, couldn't get through big cities without lagging severely (which sucked moreso since that's where my trainer was), constantly getting complications while crafting (sometimes 5 or 6 in a row when i'm doing a god damn recipe that's 10 levels below my crafting level), and lag. But, there were things I liked. The settings for Qalia and Kojan (except for the damn wood elf city) were nice and new changes of pace. I like the Arabian setting and Asian setting, along with the style of armor and weapons from those areas reflecting the setting instead of just cookie cutter designs. I loved diplomacy being done in a CCG style, and doing diplomacy stuff.
Oh, another thing that I'm not sure whether I liked or didn't: the glaring similarities between the Vanguard UI and WoW UI set-ups. It felt too much like WoW's controls, yet made it easy to adapt to, having played WoW for about 2 years.
Maybe Sigil should have went to Blizzard to have them publish the game (and later buyout Sigil)?
Sooooo, the only word that comes to my mind when I read this is simply : .................AGAIN ?!
Yep, Sigil sold out and well it can only be good for Vanguard.... as I think with time spent playing WoW, Sigil forgot how to code and totally made this game possible by using the fact they were the ones who made EQ.
So to conclude : How to win in 3 steps :
1 - Make an awesome game.
2 - Sell out and be remembered as the good guys.
3 - Make a crappy game and tell people "Remember... we made (step 1 game)!!!"
You can add a loop to that if you want, cause that's what's happening.
Quote from knowbrainer :
Maybe Sigil should have went to Blizzard to have them publish the game (and later buyout Sigil)?
Well yeah they should've done that, then World of Starcraft would be delayed by a couple decades... AND WE DO NOT WANT THAT!
hey! VG fanbois! I TOLD YOU SO! Muhahahaha.
It is really a good thing, I don't see how the game could be any worse than what it is now and I am glad Brad isn't calling anymore shots and that they fired incompetent employees.
Where the game goes from here is anyone's guess, I doubt it will be improved to the point of becoming an enjoyable, complex, innovative mmo, which is what it was meant to be.
SOE could just surprise us all and make the game something truly great. I don't see that happening however.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
That's my point, VG is already an NGE. VG will proberly just crawl along with MxO and SWG if it doesn't improve. It won't die if MxO is still breathing therefore it has no where to go but up from here.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
SoE is a company that usually improve existing titles.
Look at EQ and at EQ2. They are games that where improve a LOT, based on their strong marketing team. Of course, they did a few mistakes, like SWG, or fail to improve significantly some titles like Matrix. But this is what they do best. With SWG they learn they must be carefull to not upset the existing playerbase, let's hope they don't overdo it such as in EQ. There is a fine line between respecting existing players and removing the interest from new potential players.
Will Vanguard improves? Probably.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
*Actually rolls on the floor laughing* Oh my god!!! hahahahaha i knew this day would come..well actually we all did. Today marks the day VG is officially announced for MMORPG execution by the world leading game killers....
Good job Sigil...you really do listen to the fans lol
Its dead...go play a different game...in a year it will be empty servers ran by the bugs they never fixed
Dont listen to the SOE/Brad haters. People who have such a problem of letting go of something (especially the NGEhaters) are better off seeking some professional help imo. Wanting so badly for people or companies to fail is simply not normal. You dont even know the people from those companies. And this over a game!
Oh and I believe it is spelled Acquires, not Aquires.
Warp
And the bit that got me is not actually SOE. It's that they fired everyone then only kept some. Vanguard has been making good changes, but without a full team that just can't continue.
Flute.