I just wish I could understand why so many people have faith in the guy.
It's like the old saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".
But hey, this is why guys like McQuaid will be in this industry for years. As long as people continually give him the benefit of the doubt, corporations will continue to think "Hey, this guy must be doing SOMETHING right".
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
That is an impressive rant Brad spewed. I have to admit I am a card carrying Sony hater and had blamed SOE for all that was wrong with Vanguard. But this...my eyes are open. This flop really wasn’t SOEs fault. Who would have guessed?
I can’t believe Brad could sit there and blame Microsoft for all of Vanguards problems whining about setting schedules and wanting milestones. DUH! You can’t develop good software without them…You can’t develop good ANYTHING without them. It amazes me that Brad could not only try to run a company without understanding this, but worse, not get a clue with all that has happened and understand that HE is responsible because he didn’t understand this. It is amazing.
This article is going to make it into a lot of management and systems engineering courses as a prime example of what NOT to do.
Nice. Did you skim it, or what?
You cannot develop anything as artistic as a modern MMO with the expectations laid out by Microsoft. This is clearly not Microsoft's field. Mythica was cancelled because Microsoft lost interest, considering it a lower priority than their other concerns. When Microsoft decides to cut funding from -- or stop funding -- something that was relying upon them, that thing suffers.
They were dedicated to competing with the lucrative genre, but changed their minds when the Xbox 360, a technological rather than artistic project, looked more lucrative.
Sigil's own mistake was partnering with Microsoft in the first place. I believe they should have anticipated that a company awfully inexperienced with MMOs or other maximally artistic projects would not have sufficient understanding of what such development can and cannot entail. But Vanguard needed Microsoft's riches, and of course passion and necessity outweighed caution and compromise. They were faced with the decision of either risking a partnership with Microsoft for their money and technology or lessening what the project could be, and choosing the former backfired.
One cannot blame Microsoft for their apparent incompatability with the genre, but that is what happened and I doubt that a Microsoft representative would say differently after the experience. There were individuals who were so enthralled by Vanguard that they left Microsoft to work with Sigil when the split occurred, if that tells you anything about what agreement might be found.
The flaw in your statement is that several games right now are succesful and they did it without a 30 million dollar budget. This could indeed be Microsofts fault but I don't think so. I've said this alot in these threads and some people don't get it. No matter what milestones MS asked for, no matter how focused on Xbox 360 they were, no matter how anal they might have become when the Zoo Tycoon commitee took over, the simple fact is that they gave Brad 30 million dollars and five years to complete a game. Here we are almost six years later and the game still isn't ready for release. According to the unknown developer, the games major pushes for content came in the last few months of Beta and before that the game was a total wreck. Microsoft sent a test group into the beta early on and were appalled at what had been accomplished or not accomplished and dumped the game.
You don't have to even compete with WOW, you simply need to get as Brad said 250,000 subscibers to make a profit. Brad expected MS to keep shoveling money at a severely messed up game going into the fifth year and wasn't even close going into Beta 4 of being a smooth playable fun experience. You can blame who you want but the basic premise is that Brad and his upper management team sat around planning crap for seven years down the road and never looked at the fact that the basic things like animations, combat, classes and quests were horrible right before the NDA dropped.
Brad! I never want to see your name in any MMO ever again.
SOE maybe pays you to keep your name involved in their titles, but that wont last long now once everyone realizes what a pos you are.
I dont understand what it was that you did with EverQuest that made you so famous. Prolly just a name that took credit for everyone elses works! Just a lucky guy in the right place at the right time.
They say your passionate and full of crazy ideas. Well A LOT of people are these days much more so than you are when it comes to MMO's.
And we don't need people like that in the upper management. Their place is on the design table. We need people in the management who can make it all happen and get the stuff done. That have all the right connections to get the tools, people and funding.
They say your a great salesman? Well apparently NOT since you failed miserably to convince the higher importance people who could have made a difference. The hypeshow you run on the forums only works for the blind fanbois that follow you to the end.
Now please retire and never waste the skills and resources of people again. Ever.
It's a miracle what Vanguard turned out to be after all this. It's almost a decent game. I can only imagine what it could have been. Grats on the skilled people who did all the hard work with it, but never get the credit.
Brad! I never want to see your name in any MMO ever again.
SOE maybe pays you to keep your name involved in their titles, but that wont last long now once everyone realizes what a pos you are. I dont understand what it was that you did with EverQuest that made you so famous. Prolly just a name that took credit for everyone elses works! Just a lucky guy in the right place at the right time. They say your passionate and full of crazy ideas. Well A LOT of people are these days much more so than you are when it comes to MMO's. And we don't need people like that in the upper management. Their place is on the design table. We need people in the management who can make it all happen and get the stuff done. That have all the right connections to get the tools, people and funding. They say your a great salesman? Well apparently NOT since you failed miserably to convince the higher importance people who could have made a difference. The hypeshow you run on the forums only works for the blind fanbois that follow you to the end. Now please retire and never waste the skills and resources of people again. Ever. It's a miracle what Vanguard turned out to be after all this. It's almost a decent game. I can only imagine what it could have been. Grats on the skilled people who did all the hard work with it, but never get the credit. NOW GO AWAY BRAD!
<Mod edit>
MMO's cant really have set in stone dates and times for things to be done, take a look at all the games that get pushed back nowadays. TCoS, WoW and even warhammer for example.
yes sigil messed up. and its not entirely brads fault. if the game isnt complete and playable, it shouldnt be put out.
stop being closed minded :P, cant really judge if you were NOT there.
and no i dont worship brad. i could careless about him.
Please recognise hat the "Microsoft screwed Vangoo for Vista" theory was oficially invented by Roamie - which IS myself. You may also study my latest addition to this theory: "and then they put a Windows Games Logo on LOTR" somewhere in this forum. I guess what we are witnessing here is a try to clean up bill gates image on the cost of mmorpg community. Its like poluting the environment with devil-may-care mentality and then selling the guilt for it to some third world countries.
The art of not blaming Microsoft while telling us they screw is just affecting me negatively toward Brad and all that is SoE (since they support him).
I buy a 360 and I am extremely happy with my choice even if I only buy Oblivion on it and am waiting to see a second title worthy of my time, this was a great gaming experience for me.
I try Vanguard beta and...no more comments.
Brad admits openly, that on the PAPER, Microsoft respects eachand every part of their written deal. It was also my understanding that EQ would be a nice game for soloers, that grouping and groupers would be the center of the game. Brad let's me down twice for EQ. It was my understanding that Vanguard would be a game for groupers, again Brad let's me down. So Brad fails to respect what he wrote on the net 3 times. And we are talking about 3 major lies here.
Now, I have a well known lier saying that an honorable company which never let's me down isn't fullfilling their end of the bargain, the vocal promises. Well, breakings news, maybe you have 1 employee at Microsoft that was eager with your title and you want to believe him. If that employee stop laying you, that ain't Microsoft fault, get over it.
I am looking forward to anything that Microsoft is releasing, like a starving monkey! I am looking with an interested gaze toward Brad and whatever he does. This isn't bad, but you ought to learn respect and your place unless you want to burn yourself. Microsoft is da evil empire...I know, I was an Amiga fan. That's been said, they do great, they didn't kill the Amiga, they offers something and they interest peoples more, with lower quality stuff at first but...they improve it over time, while Amiga was sitting on their...
PS: How many game developper got half what Sigil got from Microsoft? If anything, you should be scare they come back and sue you for a % of the benefit, they are investors, they deserve it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
MMO's cant really have set in stone dates and times for things to be done, take a look at all the games that get pushed back nowadays. TCoS, WoW and even warhammer for example.
yes sigil messed up. and its not entirely brads fault. if the game isnt complete and playable, it shouldnt be put out.
.... your telling me about set in stone dates.. whaaattfffff?? Yeah like I don't know that.. Of course they cant have set in stone dates.
I have followed the development of vanguard like 4 years of its 5+ years in development!!! YES 5 YEARS IMAGINE THAT.
What I was talking about is the poor management the game had. If you read the ex-employee interview it says the game was literally build in the last 15 months of it's 5 years in development due to the poor management decisions they made. Finally they ran out of money because there was nobody to pay their bills anymore so they HAD TO RELEASE.
Yes im so f**ing dumb. What are you going to tell me next? That Brad can't shit gold bars?
That is an impressive rant Brad spewed. I have to admit I am a card carrying Sony hater and had blamed SOE for all that was wrong with Vanguard. But this...my eyes are open. This flop really wasn’t SOEs fault. Who would have guessed?
I can’t believe Brad could sit there and blame Microsoft for all of Vanguards problems whining about setting schedules and wanting milestones. DUH! You can’t develop good software without them…You can’t develop good ANYTHING without them. It amazes me that Brad could not only try to run a company without understanding this, but worse, not get a clue with all that has happened and understand that HE is responsible because he didn’t understand this. It is amazing.
This article is going to make it into a lot of management and systems engineering courses as a prime example of what NOT to do.
Nice. Did you skim it, or what?
You cannot develop anything as artistic as a modern MMO with the expectations laid out by Microsoft. This is clearly not Microsoft's field. Mythica was cancelled because Microsoft lost interest, considering it a lower priority than their other concerns. When Microsoft decides to cut funding from -- or stop funding -- something that was relying upon them, that thing suffers.
They were dedicated to competing with the lucrative genre, but changed their minds when the Xbox 360, a technological rather than artistic project, looked more lucrative.
Sigil's own mistake was partnering with Microsoft in the first place. I believe they should have anticipated that a company awfully inexperienced with MMOs or other maximally artistic projects would not have sufficient understanding of what such development can and cannot entail. But Vanguard needed Microsoft's riches, and of course passion and necessity outweighed caution and compromise. They were faced with the decision of either risking a partnership with Microsoft for their money and technology or lessening what the project could be, and choosing the former backfired.
One cannot blame Microsoft for their apparent incompatability with the genre, but that is what happened and I doubt that a Microsoft representative would say differently after the experience. There were individuals who were so enthralled by Vanguard that they left Microsoft to work with Sigil when the split occurred, if that tells you anything about what agreement might be found.
EXACTLY which individuals (and the positions they held/hold in both companies) left microsoft to work with sigil?
proof or stfu.
artistic. define what you're talking about here. use precise terms, not a generalization "it's an artistic project" because my pooping on a plate, letting that bake in the sun & then putting it on display is ALSO an artistic project.
how many years exactly was this game funded by microsoft? perhaps mcquaid doesn't have anything bad to say about microsoft because it would be libel?
1.
Law.
a.
defamation by written or printed words, pictures, or in any form other than by spoken words or gestures.
b.
the act or crime of publishing it.
c.
a formal written declaration or statement, as one containing the allegations of a plaintiff or the grounds of a charge.
2.
anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents.
–verb (used with object)
3.
to publish a libel against.
4.
to misrepresent damagingly.
5.
to institute suit against by a libel, as in an admiralty court.
and he would like to be able to get another job in the field and not be digging ditches for the rest of his life. i'm sure microsoft wouldn't take too kindly to him breaking any sort of confidentiality agreements, or badmouthing them because HE was unable to keep his end of the bargain.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
That is an impressive rant Brad spewed. I have to admit I am a card carrying Sony hater and had blamed SOE for all that was wrong with Vanguard. But this...my eyes are open. This flop really wasn’t SOEs fault. Who would have guessed?
I can’t believe Brad could sit there and blame Microsoft for all of Vanguards problems whining about setting schedules and wanting milestones. DUH! You can’t develop good software without them…You can’t develop good ANYTHING without them. It amazes me that Brad could not only try to run a company without understanding this, but worse, not get a clue with all that has happened and understand that HE is responsible because he didn’t understand this. It is amazing.
This article is going to make it into a lot of management and systems engineering courses as a prime example of what NOT to do.
Nice. Did you skim it, or what?
You cannot develop anything as artistic as a modern MMO with the expectations laid out by Microsoft. This is clearly not Microsoft's field. Mythica was cancelled because Microsoft lost interest, considering it a lower priority than their other concerns. When Microsoft decides to cut funding from -- or stop funding -- something that was relying upon them, that thing suffers.
They were dedicated to competing with the lucrative genre, but changed their minds when the Xbox 360, a technological rather than artistic project, looked more lucrative.
So they spent a couple billion dollars on Xbox project and had none left to keep on funding Vanguard? And no executives to oversee the development? Yeah, makes sense.
Your theory would be viable if none of us saw and played Vanguard. Then you could be talking about what a great game they had in their hands, but didn't recognize the potential and made a great mistake. Problem is we did see it and we did play it and we can easily imagine how it must have looked when Microsoft pulled the plug. Congratulations to Microsoft, they still can recognize a POS when they see it.
Originally posted by damian7 Originally posted by Saerain Nice. Did you skim it, or what? You cannot develop anything as artistic as a modern MMO with the expectations laid out by Microsoft. This is clearly not Microsoft's field. Mythica was cancelled because Microsoft lost interest, considering it a lower priority than their other concerns. When Microsoft decides to cut funding from -- or stop funding -- something that was relying upon them, that thing suffers. They were dedicated to competing with the lucrative genre, but changed their minds when the Xbox 360, a technological rather than artistic project, looked more lucrative. Sigil's own mistake was partnering with Microsoft in the first place. I believe they should have anticipated that a company awfully inexperienced with MMOs or other maximally artistic projects would not have sufficient understanding of what such development can and cannot entail. But Vanguard needed Microsoft's riches, and of course passion and necessity outweighed caution and compromise. They were faced with the decision of either risking a partnership with Microsoft for their money and technology or lessening what the project could be, and choosing the former backfired. One cannot blame Microsoft for their apparent incompatability with the genre, but that is what happened and I doubt that a Microsoft representative would say differently after the experience. There were individuals who were so enthralled by Vanguard that they left Microsoft to work with Sigil when the split occurred, if that tells you anything about what agreement might be found.
and he would like to be able to get another job in the field and not be digging ditches for the rest of his life. i'm sure microsoft wouldn't take too kindly to him breaking any sort of confidentiality agreements, or badmouthing them because HE was unable to keep his end of the bargain.
MMO's cant really have set in stone dates and times for things to be done, take a look at all the games that get pushed back nowadays. TCoS, WoW and even warhammer for example.
yes sigil messed up. and its not entirely brads fault. if the game isnt complete and playable, it shouldnt be put out.
stop being closed minded :P, cant really judge if you were NOT there.
and no i dont worship brad. i could careless about him.
No one is expecting any MMO to have a set in stone date. However, no MMO should be given an open-ended time frame and endless bags of money either. Benchmarks make sure that an investor's money isn't wasted and keep the project on a suitable time frame. If Vanguard needed to be pushed back, so be it. But from all indications, Brad and Co. squandered $30+ million due to poor management.
As for the fault not being Brad's, Brad was the CEO and said himself "the buck stops here." He can't have the title and then not assume the responsibilities that go with it.
I think people are misinterpreting his "buck stops here" comment. Many take it to mean he's accepting the blame for Sigil and Vanguard, when in reality it's his way of giving everyone the finger, effectively saying, "Ha ha, the buck stopped here, in my pocket, and now I have all your money!".
I think people are misinterpreting his "buck stops here" comment. Many take it to mean he's accepting the blame for Sigil and Vanguard, when in reality it's his way of giving everyone the finger, effectively saying, "Ha ha, the buck stopped here, in my pocket, and now I have all your money!".
I always wondered what the buck was they were talking about, and why it was always stopping at places.
I think it would suck to lose something that I felt so passionate about. Add on to it being a creative venture, and your company; and I could imagine this is a very diffecult thing to deal with.
It would be like having someone finance you to do the painting of your dreams. Then running out of time and having your painting taken from you.
Irregardelss of the events that unfolded, and as cheesey as it sounds, I imagine that Brad has a broken heart right now.
I think that people forget what common decency and respect is, and simply through out insults, and harsh critisism; forgetting that there is a real person there, with real feelings. Some people feel that it is "not thier problem", or "he deserved it", but the idea isn't to point out the obvious, or to flex an opinion. Being a descent person is about rising above that sort of behavior and showing that no matter how angry or upset you may be, you always remain a respectfull, descent person.
No matter my opinion of events, or who's fautl was what, I am sorry that things turned out this way for the man.
I also found what he said about microsoft interesting. Personally I would like to thank MS for all that loving support they're providing Game's for Windows. I love walking into my locale Best Buy and seeing PC gaming being given the same kind of love the Xbox360 games are given. Hey Bill! I thought you were trying to HELP PC gaming! Way to drop the ball there big guy.
As for the fault not being Brad's, Brad was the CEO and said himself "the buck stops here." He can't have the title and then not assume the responsibilities that go with it.
Brad got most of the credit for EverQuest and he is just one man. As far as I know all the man does is talks bs I wouldnt even call him a dev he doesn't develop the game he's a fracking salesman.
He may as well now take all the blame for Vanguard and after all he was the man in charge and set the course for this game.
I can't blame microsoft for not being convinced I wasn't ever convinced as a player either through the development.
after reading pretty much all the posts in this thread, brad's interview and i guess his reply to his interview.
i have to say that he's the person i pictured him to be. personal lives are no one else's business. having said that, it's no one's business as long as it's their PERSONAL life. when you bring your personal life into the professional office place, it's no longer your personal life. it has a direct influence on everyone around you every day. anyone that believes differently, feel free to explain how you worked in an office and someone ELSE was having an affair while going thru a divorce (supposedly) or just while still married, and in this same office, there was a LOT of nepotism going on and YOU were not involved in the affairs or the nepotism and tell me how none of that had ANY effect on anything you did at work. odds are, quite a few people will call you a liar. CEO of a corporation with 100 people. honestly, i don't know where all these "i would've been there, but i would've cried" statements are coming from or what they're supposed to show. what it sounds like is he's a self centered ass. first off, be a man. a man would be there to apologize to the people in HIS company, for HIS failures. the game is not a success. who exactly is to blame for that? the ceo of the company. why? which department didn't deliver? ok, why didn't he step in and make it better? it's ONLY 100 people. people are being fired, why? who knows, who cares, in this small of a company, without an hr department, why isn't he there to thank these people for all their long hours and hard work? why isn't he there at the release to celebrate? HE knew there would be problems down the road, yet he chose to keep everyone else in the dark? what a total and complete ass. Christian? yeah, this guy is about as Christian as Chuck Manson. Although, he does seem to always believe he's not at fault and it's always someone else's fault. That could go with a "oh everyone persecutes me because i'm a Christian" false/pseudo belief system. More often than not, it's just "you suck" and not "the devil has it in for me". If, 'the buck stops here', then why is it Microsoft's fault? why is it the fault of the former-zoo tycoon guys? why is it everyone's fault BUT mcquaid's? if you start with "the buck stops here"; then you continue with "i failed/messed up, i'm sorry, here's what i believe i could've done better, here's what i plan to do next time". you don't continue with "it was all these other people's fault". "the buck stops here" means that the person making that statement is admitting he, himself, is responsible. that means, you don't point fingers at anyone else. artistic. lotro is pretty artistic. at least as much so as VG. we have an estimate of how long it took to produce and how much money they had? did they have a decade of experience and people who had worked on titles like EQ since it's inception? what REALLY gets me, is how he was talking about they had a second title that could be shortly underway. was this guy born into a rich family and he's never really had to work hard? is his daddy in congress or something?
:: Mod Edited ::
artistic. or, is it more of a matter of their eyes being bigger than their collective stomachs? i'm not sure EXACTLY what the art is here... is it the background scenery? cuz i'm pretty sure brad didn't draw trees. is it how the orcs and goblins look and are animated? again, not so sure brad was drawing these animations either. is a table calculating hit / miss %s considered art? is making a big overall map of the area and drawing some circles and putting names like "joey's cave" considered art? these things he may have had a hand in. if they're considered art, then i'd have to say that meter maids are also artists. it'd make as much sense.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I think that some people invest to much emotion into a video game. They seem to develope a very close emontional tie to a particular game, and when it doesn't turn out how they want it to, they get very upset.
I'll never understand that. I'm just happy to play the games I have, and am gratefull that people put them out.
I'll never understand that. I'm just happy to play the games I have, and am gratefull that people put them out.
Yes some of us are very upset because we are really frustrated so bland games coming out, maybe you are fairly new to the genre but people like me who have played MMO's nearly 10 years now and feel very passionate about them. And we would like to see new things implemented and some lessons learned, but the games that are coming out are incredibly uninnovative. They could be so much more.
They are almost a copy of each other and the devs have seem to have lost a few important points. The games just lack a soul like Vanguard.
I think it would suck to lose something that I felt so passionate about. Add on to it being a creative venture, and your company; and I could imagine this is a very diffecult thing to deal with. It would be like having someone finance you to do the painting of your dreams. Then running out of time and having your painting taken from you. Irregardelss of the events that unfolded, and as cheesey as it sounds, I imagine that Brad has a broken heart right now. I think that people forget what common decency and respect is, and simply through out insults, and harsh critisism; forgetting that there is a real person there, with real feelings. Some people feel that it is "not thier problem", or "he deserved it", but the idea isn't to point out the obvious, or to flex an opinion. Being a descent person is about rising above that sort of behavior and showing that no matter how angry or upset you may be, you always remain a respectfull, descent person. No matter my opinion of events, or who's fautl was what, I am sorry that things turned out this way for the man. I also found what he said about microsoft interesting. Personally I would like to thank MS for all that loving support they're providing Game's for Windows. I love walking into my locale Best Buy and seeing PC gaming being given the same kind of love the Xbox360 games are given. Hey Bill! I thought you were trying to HELP PC gaming! Way to drop the ball there big guy.
Yet even for the painter, he relied on the people who made the canvas and the paint and the brushes to allow him to go on with his dream.
I find it interesting that you are so quick to talk about Brad being a "real person" with "real feelings" and yet no mention of the 50+ employees that worked 18-hour days helping Brad live his dream while Brad was off God-knows-where doing God-knows-what.
Those are real people with real feelings as well and they are now without a paycheck, health insurance and anything else that went along with a stable job.
I am sorry it turned out this way for Brad as well, but he was/is the master of his own destiny. He could have declined being the CEO. He could have been hired an HR guru who would have put a stop to the nepotism and politics in the office. He could have kept Microsoft as a sponsor. But he didn't and now he is paying the price for his short-sightedness.
But take heart. Come next pay period, he will have a nice little check deposited in his bank account and will be able to soothe his hurt feelings with a meager dinner at Ruth's Chris Steak House or The Capital Grille.
I think it would suck to lose something that I felt so passionate about. Add on to it being a creative venture, and your company; and I could imagine this is a very diffecult thing to deal with. It would be like having someone finance you to do the painting of your dreams. Then running out of time and having your painting taken from you. Irregardelss of the events that unfolded, and as cheesey as it sounds, I imagine that Brad has a broken heart right now. I think that people forget what common decency and respect is, and simply through out insults, and harsh critisism; forgetting that there is a real person there, with real feelings. Some people feel that it is "not thier problem", or "he deserved it", but the idea isn't to point out the obvious, or to flex an opinion. Being a descent person is about rising above that sort of behavior and showing that no matter how angry or upset you may be, you always remain a respectfull, descent person. No matter my opinion of events, or who's fautl was what, I am sorry that things turned out this way for the man. I also found what he said about microsoft interesting. Personally I would like to thank MS for all that loving support they're providing Game's for Windows. I love walking into my locale Best Buy and seeing PC gaming being given the same kind of love the Xbox360 games are given. Hey Bill! I thought you were trying to HELP PC gaming! Way to drop the ball there big guy.
Yet even for the painter, he relied on the people who made the canvas and the paint and the brushes to allow him to go on with his dream.
I find it interesting that you are so quick to talk about Brad being a "real person" with "real feelings" and yet no mention of the 50+ employees that worked 18-hour days helping Brad live his dream while Brad was off God-knows-where doing God-knows-what.
Those are real people with real feelings as well and they are now without a paycheck, health insurance and anything else that went along with a stable job.
I am sorry it turned out this way for Brad as well, but he was/is the master of his own destiny. He could have declined being the CEO. He could have been hired an HR guru who would have put a stop to the nepotism and politics in the office. He could have kept Microsoft as a sponsor. But he didn't and now he is paying the price for his short-sightedness.
But take heart. Come next pay period, he will have a nice little check deposited in his bank account and will be able to soothe his hurt feelings with a meager dinner at Ruth's Chris Steak House or The Capital Grille.
Your right. I was being insencetive to the people that lost thier jobs.
My brother is a contract worker for IBM, he just baught his house 3 years ago and about 5 months ago just has his first child. IBM is laying him off. You may have heard about the thousands of people that are losing thier jobs at IBM because it's cheaper to hire outside the country.
A good friend of mine worked for a software company as a debugger for 6 years. They outsourced his job to india, but before letting him go, he had to train the guy to do his job.
People who see me post know I am pretty unbiased and peaceful.
Stepping out of peace pants a second I am gonna step into the pants of truth.
I would insult the guy but it is against MMORPG.com rules. The simple fact is if I have a couple working for me and one of the cheat on the other, his/her ass is fired so quick it will make his/her head spin. To call yourself a christian then allow that type of stuff in your work place is bullshit. Brad can say he is emotional all he wants, he is not emotional. He is worth enough money to retire and he allows his people to get fired. Brad could start a small game company with his wealth and promote a small MMO like Akklaim does and rehire them all.
Simple fact the guy is not worth my insults, and anyone who cheats on there partner is not worth a ziploc bag of rat piss.
The blame goes on a lot of people there but mainly Brads.
Be cool to people, and try and stay cool that way you never have to regret making someone feel bad. Don't take what ya got granted because some people never get to feel happy. We get to play these great MMOs and surf a good site. Be thankful for what ya got and next time ya feel down imagine a fat sea otter waddling with a pillow and a night cap. Bam! smiles!
Of course. I should always remember that when it comes to Brad McQuaid, we have to realize that he is a real person with real feelings and a real vision.
For the rest of the peons who did the grunt work, it's just a job and they will find new ones.
Comments
It's like the old saying goes "Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me".
But hey, this is why guys like McQuaid will be in this industry for years. As long as people continually give him the benefit of the doubt, corporations will continue to think "Hey, this guy must be doing SOMETHING right".
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Nice. Did you skim it, or what?
You cannot develop anything as artistic as a modern MMO with the expectations laid out by Microsoft. This is clearly not Microsoft's field. Mythica was cancelled because Microsoft lost interest, considering it a lower priority than their other concerns. When Microsoft decides to cut funding from -- or stop funding -- something that was relying upon them, that thing suffers.
They were dedicated to competing with the lucrative genre, but changed their minds when the Xbox 360, a technological rather than artistic project, looked more lucrative.
Sigil's own mistake was partnering with Microsoft in the first place. I believe they should have anticipated that a company awfully inexperienced with MMOs or other maximally artistic projects would not have sufficient understanding of what such development can and cannot entail. But Vanguard needed Microsoft's riches, and of course passion and necessity outweighed caution and compromise. They were faced with the decision of either risking a partnership with Microsoft for their money and technology or lessening what the project could be, and choosing the former backfired.
One cannot blame Microsoft for their apparent incompatability with the genre, but that is what happened and I doubt that a Microsoft representative would say differently after the experience. There were individuals who were so enthralled by Vanguard that they left Microsoft to work with Sigil when the split occurred, if that tells you anything about what agreement might be found.
The flaw in your statement is that several games right now are succesful and they did it without a 30 million dollar budget. This could indeed be Microsofts fault but I don't think so. I've said this alot in these threads and some people don't get it. No matter what milestones MS asked for, no matter how focused on Xbox 360 they were, no matter how anal they might have become when the Zoo Tycoon commitee took over, the simple fact is that they gave Brad 30 million dollars and five years to complete a game. Here we are almost six years later and the game still isn't ready for release. According to the unknown developer, the games major pushes for content came in the last few months of Beta and before that the game was a total wreck. Microsoft sent a test group into the beta early on and were appalled at what had been accomplished or not accomplished and dumped the game.
You don't have to even compete with WOW, you simply need to get as Brad said 250,000 subscibers to make a profit. Brad expected MS to keep shoveling money at a severely messed up game going into the fifth year and wasn't even close going into Beta 4 of being a smooth playable fun experience. You can blame who you want but the basic premise is that Brad and his upper management team sat around planning crap for seven years down the road and never looked at the fact that the basic things like animations, combat, classes and quests were horrible right before the NDA dropped.
Brad! I never want to see your name in any MMO ever again.
SOE maybe pays you to keep your name involved in their titles, but that wont last long now once everyone realizes what a pos you are.
I dont understand what it was that you did with EverQuest that made you so famous. Prolly just a name that took credit for everyone elses works! Just a lucky guy in the right place at the right time.
They say your passionate and full of crazy ideas. Well A LOT of people are these days much more so than you are when it comes to MMO's.
And we don't need people like that in the upper management. Their place is on the design table. We need people in the management who can make it all happen and get the stuff done. That have all the right connections to get the tools, people and funding.
They say your a great salesman? Well apparently NOT since you failed miserably to convince the higher importance people who could have made a difference. The hypeshow you run on the forums only works for the blind fanbois that follow you to the end.
Now please retire and never waste the skills and resources of people again. Ever.
It's a miracle what Vanguard turned out to be after all this. It's almost a decent game. I can only imagine what it could have been. Grats on the skilled people who did all the hard work with it, but never get the credit.
NOW GO AWAY BRAD!
MMO's cant really have set in stone dates and times for things to be done, take a look at all the games that get pushed back nowadays. TCoS, WoW and even warhammer for example.
yes sigil messed up. and its not entirely brads fault. if the game isnt complete and playable, it shouldnt be put out.
stop being closed minded :P, cant really judge if you were NOT there.
and no i dont worship brad. i could careless about him.
p.s.
steve jobs isn't better either
The art of not blaming Microsoft while telling us they screw is just affecting me negatively toward Brad and all that is SoE (since they support him).
I buy a 360 and I am extremely happy with my choice even if I only buy Oblivion on it and am waiting to see a second title worthy of my time, this was a great gaming experience for me.
I try Vanguard beta and...no more comments.
Brad admits openly, that on the PAPER, Microsoft respects eachand every part of their written deal. It was also my understanding that EQ would be a nice game for soloers, that grouping and groupers would be the center of the game. Brad let's me down twice for EQ. It was my understanding that Vanguard would be a game for groupers, again Brad let's me down. So Brad fails to respect what he wrote on the net 3 times. And we are talking about 3 major lies here.
Now, I have a well known lier saying that an honorable company which never let's me down isn't fullfilling their end of the bargain, the vocal promises. Well, breakings news, maybe you have 1 employee at Microsoft that was eager with your title and you want to believe him. If that employee stop laying you, that ain't Microsoft fault, get over it.
I am looking forward to anything that Microsoft is releasing, like a starving monkey! I am looking with an interested gaze toward Brad and whatever he does. This isn't bad, but you ought to learn respect and your place unless you want to burn yourself. Microsoft is da evil empire...I know, I was an Amiga fan. That's been said, they do great, they didn't kill the Amiga, they offers something and they interest peoples more, with lower quality stuff at first but...they improve it over time, while Amiga was sitting on their...
PS: How many game developper got half what Sigil got from Microsoft? If anything, you should be scare they come back and sue you for a % of the benefit, they are investors, they deserve it.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Do try to not bleed on the carpet. We just had it steam cleaned.
Ever been cut by the jagged edge of an unpotimized Vanguard polygon? I hear those are much worse!I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
-BarCrow
.... your telling me about set in stone dates.. whaaattfffff?? Yeah like I don't know that.. Of course they cant have set in stone dates.
I have followed the development of vanguard like 4 years of its 5+ years in development!!! YES 5 YEARS IMAGINE THAT.
What I was talking about is the poor management the game had. If you read the ex-employee interview it says the game was literally build in the last 15 months of it's 5 years in development due to the poor management decisions they made. Finally they ran out of money because there was nobody to pay their bills anymore so they HAD TO RELEASE.
Yes im so f**ing dumb. What are you going to tell me next? That Brad can't shit gold bars?
Nice. Did you skim it, or what?
You cannot develop anything as artistic as a modern MMO with the expectations laid out by Microsoft. This is clearly not Microsoft's field. Mythica was cancelled because Microsoft lost interest, considering it a lower priority than their other concerns. When Microsoft decides to cut funding from -- or stop funding -- something that was relying upon them, that thing suffers.
They were dedicated to competing with the lucrative genre, but changed their minds when the Xbox 360, a technological rather than artistic project, looked more lucrative.
Sigil's own mistake was partnering with Microsoft in the first place. I believe they should have anticipated that a company awfully inexperienced with MMOs or other maximally artistic projects would not have sufficient understanding of what such development can and cannot entail. But Vanguard needed Microsoft's riches, and of course passion and necessity outweighed caution and compromise. They were faced with the decision of either risking a partnership with Microsoft for their money and technology or lessening what the project could be, and choosing the former backfired.
One cannot blame Microsoft for their apparent incompatability with the genre, but that is what happened and I doubt that a Microsoft representative would say differently after the experience. There were individuals who were so enthralled by Vanguard that they left Microsoft to work with Sigil when the split occurred, if that tells you anything about what agreement might be found.
EXACTLY which individuals (and the positions they held/hold in both companies) left microsoft to work with sigil?
proof or stfu.
artistic. define what you're talking about here. use precise terms, not a generalization "it's an artistic project" because my pooping on a plate, letting that bake in the sun & then putting it on display is ALSO an artistic project.
how many years exactly was this game funded by microsoft? perhaps mcquaid doesn't have anything bad to say about microsoft because it would be libel?
and he would like to be able to get another job in the field and not be digging ditches for the rest of his life. i'm sure microsoft wouldn't take too kindly to him breaking any sort of confidentiality agreements, or badmouthing them because HE was unable to keep his end of the bargain.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
Nice. Did you skim it, or what?
You cannot develop anything as artistic as a modern MMO with the expectations laid out by Microsoft. This is clearly not Microsoft's field. Mythica was cancelled because Microsoft lost interest, considering it a lower priority than their other concerns. When Microsoft decides to cut funding from -- or stop funding -- something that was relying upon them, that thing suffers.
They were dedicated to competing with the lucrative genre, but changed their minds when the Xbox 360, a technological rather than artistic project, looked more lucrative.
So they spent a couple billion dollars on Xbox project and had none left to keep on funding Vanguard? And no executives to oversee the development? Yeah, makes sense.
Your theory would be viable if none of us saw and played Vanguard. Then you could be talking about what a great game they had in their hands, but didn't recognize the potential and made a great mistake. Problem is we did see it and we did play it and we can easily imagine how it must have looked when Microsoft pulled the plug. Congratulations to Microsoft, they still can recognize a POS when they see it.
and he would like to be able to get another job in the field and not be digging ditches for the rest of his life. i'm sure microsoft wouldn't take too kindly to him breaking any sort of confidentiality agreements, or badmouthing them because HE was unable to keep his end of the bargain.
You know, his posts read better if you apply a pretentious British accent
As for the fault not being Brad's, Brad was the CEO and said himself "the buck stops here." He can't have the title and then not assume the responsibilities that go with it.
I think people are misinterpreting his "buck stops here" comment. Many take it to mean he's accepting the blame for Sigil and Vanguard, when in reality it's his way of giving everyone the finger, effectively saying, "Ha ha, the buck stopped here, in my pocket, and now I have all your money!".
----------
Life sucks, buy a helmet.
I think it would suck to lose something that I felt so passionate about. Add on to it being a creative venture, and your company; and I could imagine this is a very diffecult thing to deal with.
It would be like having someone finance you to do the painting of your dreams. Then running out of time and having your painting taken from you.
Irregardelss of the events that unfolded, and as cheesey as it sounds, I imagine that Brad has a broken heart right now.
I think that people forget what common decency and respect is, and simply through out insults, and harsh critisism; forgetting that there is a real person there, with real feelings. Some people feel that it is "not thier problem", or "he deserved it", but the idea isn't to point out the obvious, or to flex an opinion. Being a descent person is about rising above that sort of behavior and showing that no matter how angry or upset you may be, you always remain a respectfull, descent person.
No matter my opinion of events, or who's fautl was what, I am sorry that things turned out this way for the man.
I also found what he said about microsoft interesting. Personally I would like to thank MS for all that loving support they're providing Game's for Windows. I love walking into my locale Best Buy and seeing PC gaming being given the same kind of love the Xbox360 games are given. Hey Bill! I thought you were trying to HELP PC gaming! Way to drop the ball there big guy.
Wish Darkfall would release.
Brad got most of the credit for EverQuest and he is just one man. As far as I know all the man does is talks bs I wouldnt even call him a dev he doesn't develop the game he's a fracking salesman.
He may as well now take all the blame for Vanguard and after all he was the man in charge and set the course for this game.
I can't blame microsoft for not being convinced I wasn't ever convinced as a player either through the development.
after reading pretty much all the posts in this thread, brad's interview and i guess his reply to his interview.
i have to say that he's the person i pictured him to be.
personal lives are no one else's business. having said that, it's no one's business as long as it's their PERSONAL life. when you bring your personal life into the professional office place, it's no longer your personal life. it has a direct influence on everyone around you every day. anyone that believes differently, feel free to explain how you worked in an office and someone ELSE was having an affair while going thru a divorce (supposedly) or just while still married, and in this same office, there was a LOT of nepotism going on and YOU were not involved in the affairs or the nepotism and tell me how none of that had ANY effect on anything you did at work. odds are, quite a few people will call you a liar.
CEO of a corporation with 100 people. honestly, i don't know where all these "i would've been there, but i would've cried" statements are coming from or what they're supposed to show. what it sounds like is he's a self centered ass. first off, be a man. a man would be there to apologize to the people in HIS company, for HIS failures. the game is not a success. who exactly is to blame for that? the ceo of the company. why? which department didn't deliver? ok, why didn't he step in and make it better? it's ONLY 100 people. people are being fired, why? who knows, who cares, in this small of a company, without an hr department, why isn't he there to thank these people for all their long hours and hard work? why isn't he there at the release to celebrate? HE knew there would be problems down the road, yet he chose to keep everyone else in the dark? what a total and complete ass.
Christian? yeah, this guy is about as Christian as Chuck Manson. Although, he does seem to always believe he's not at fault and it's always someone else's fault. That could go with a "oh everyone persecutes me because i'm a Christian" false/pseudo belief system. More often than not, it's just "you suck" and not "the devil has it in for me".
If, 'the buck stops here', then why is it Microsoft's fault? why is it the fault of the former-zoo tycoon guys? why is it everyone's fault BUT mcquaid's? if you start with "the buck stops here"; then you continue with "i failed/messed up, i'm sorry, here's what i believe i could've done better, here's what i plan to do next time". you don't continue with "it was all these other people's fault". "the buck stops here" means that the person making that statement is admitting he, himself, is responsible. that means, you don't point fingers at anyone else.
artistic.
lotro is pretty artistic. at least as much so as VG. we have an estimate of how long it took to produce and how much money they had? did they have a decade of experience and people who had worked on titles like EQ since it's inception? what REALLY gets me, is how he was talking about they had a second title that could be shortly underway. was this guy born into a rich family and he's never really had to work hard? is his daddy in congress or something?
:: Mod Edited ::
artistic. or, is it more of a matter of their eyes being bigger than their collective stomachs? i'm not sure EXACTLY what the art is here... is it the background scenery? cuz i'm pretty sure brad didn't draw trees. is it how the orcs and goblins look and are animated? again, not so sure brad was drawing these animations either. is a table calculating hit / miss %s considered art? is making a big overall map of the area and drawing some circles and putting names like "joey's cave" considered art? these things he may have had a hand in. if they're considered art, then i'd have to say that meter maids are also artists. it'd make as much sense.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
I think that some people invest to much emotion into a video game. They seem to develope a very close emontional tie to a particular game, and when it doesn't turn out how they want it to, they get very upset.
I'll never understand that. I'm just happy to play the games I have, and am gratefull that people put them out.
Wish Darkfall would release.
Yes some of us are very upset because we are really frustrated so bland games coming out, maybe you are fairly new to the genre but people like me who have played MMO's nearly 10 years now and feel very passionate about them. And we would like to see new things implemented and some lessons learned, but the games that are coming out are incredibly uninnovative. They could be so much more.
They are almost a copy of each other and the devs have seem to have lost a few important points. The games just lack a soul like Vanguard.
I find it interesting that you are so quick to talk about Brad being a "real person" with "real feelings" and yet no mention of the 50+ employees that worked 18-hour days helping Brad live his dream while Brad was off God-knows-where doing God-knows-what.
Those are real people with real feelings as well and they are now without a paycheck, health insurance and anything else that went along with a stable job.
I am sorry it turned out this way for Brad as well, but he was/is the master of his own destiny. He could have declined being the CEO. He could have been hired an HR guru who would have put a stop to the nepotism and politics in the office. He could have kept Microsoft as a sponsor. But he didn't and now he is paying the price for his short-sightedness.
But take heart. Come next pay period, he will have a nice little check deposited in his bank account and will be able to soothe his hurt feelings with a meager dinner at Ruth's Chris Steak House or The Capital Grille.
I find it interesting that you are so quick to talk about Brad being a "real person" with "real feelings" and yet no mention of the 50+ employees that worked 18-hour days helping Brad live his dream while Brad was off God-knows-where doing God-knows-what.
Those are real people with real feelings as well and they are now without a paycheck, health insurance and anything else that went along with a stable job.
I am sorry it turned out this way for Brad as well, but he was/is the master of his own destiny. He could have declined being the CEO. He could have been hired an HR guru who would have put a stop to the nepotism and politics in the office. He could have kept Microsoft as a sponsor. But he didn't and now he is paying the price for his short-sightedness.
But take heart. Come next pay period, he will have a nice little check deposited in his bank account and will be able to soothe his hurt feelings with a meager dinner at Ruth's Chris Steak House or The Capital Grille.
Your right. I was being insencetive to the people that lost thier jobs.
My brother is a contract worker for IBM, he just baught his house 3 years ago and about 5 months ago just has his first child. IBM is laying him off. You may have heard about the thousands of people that are losing thier jobs at IBM because it's cheaper to hire outside the country.
A good friend of mine worked for a software company as a debugger for 6 years. They outsourced his job to india, but before letting him go, he had to train the guy to do his job.
It's a job. They'll find a new one.
Wish Darkfall would release.
From Brad's interview
"After we split from Microsoft - because obviously we couldn't ship the game in an unready state ..."
Hey Brad, irony isn't a type of heavy metal - look up the definition.
Priceless.
Stepping out of peace pants a second I am gonna step into the pants of truth.
I would insult the guy but it is against MMORPG.com rules. The simple fact is if I have a couple working for me and one of the cheat on the other, his/her ass is fired so quick it will make his/her head spin. To call yourself a christian then allow that type of stuff in your work place is bullshit. Brad can say he is emotional all he wants, he is not emotional. He is worth enough money to retire and he allows his people to get fired. Brad could start a small game company with his wealth and promote a small MMO like Akklaim does and rehire them all.
Simple fact the guy is not worth my insults, and anyone who cheats on there partner is not worth a ziploc bag of rat piss.
The blame goes on a lot of people there but mainly Brads.
Be cool to people, and try and stay cool that way you never have to regret making someone feel bad. Don't take what ya got granted because some people never get to feel happy. We get to play these great MMOs and surf a good site. Be thankful for what ya got and next time ya feel down imagine a fat sea otter waddling with a pillow and a night cap. Bam! smiles!
I hope this game excels for the VG community.
It's a job. They'll find a new one.
Of course. I should always remember that when it comes to Brad McQuaid, we have to realize that he is a real person with real feelings and a real vision.
For the rest of the peons who did the grunt work, it's just a job and they will find new ones.