With a choice to defend himself about not showing up, not being a leader, he wants people to know that he met milestones, that he met those required dates. Want to know what doesnt ring true? If Microsoft had those hard dates, and milestones for a Summer '06 release, and if Sigil was meeting and exceeding them, then how on earth could they still have been as far from release as they ended up being? Are we to believe that MS was so incompetent that they did not set milestones that would see a game released, or are we to believe that this is just more spin from the salesman himself? Those things just dont add up, and if anything, they lend credence to the ex-Sigil employee interview where he suggests that they faked their way thru things with MS for quite a while.
This has got to be a joke, right? Forgot the smileys and /sacasm tags. If it's not a joke, then you are a scary person. A person with balls would have been at the firings, standing up in front of the people who he was supposed to be leading.
I will admit that I was a bit emotional in writing this. It makes me sick how so many people can be so heartless.
So some don't think the game is fun and were disappointed. That gives people the sense that they have a right to say all the extreme and ugly things about a person they don't even know?
Just love how so many people in these forums think they are MMO 'experts' or something.
These forums are like a ghetto full of the most negative assholes ever assembled in one place.
Why is it so hard to believe that a huge corporation like Microsoft screwed him over? And they did! After all they did to him he still has the decency to try and speak well of them. Thats what I call professional.
I know of greed and I know the power money has over people. It's a religion of capital. It's all most people know or even consider.
I have always thought people like Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid are misunderstood and flawed artists. Laugh all you want. You say I'm "scary" because you are so 'shocked' that someone disagrees with something you believe to be a given fact.
Both these visionaries have had major failings. Koster with SWG and McQuaid with VG. Both failing because of huge corporate greed. Neither getting to fully realize their vision. Both projects destroyed due to the pursuit of more money faster.
Whats scary is the level of hate and ignorance in this thread.
Some people lost their jobs and that is terrible - almost as terrible as McQuaid losing his entire company and dream due to corporate greed. I feel sad for all at Sigil.
To McQuaid I would remind him of something Nietzsche wrote - "what can not destroy you can only make you stronger!"
Microsoft screwed HIM over?
By asking for progress on a multi-million dollar investment? By not having scripting tools and other designer tools to make the programmers work easier and faster? Microsoft screwed him by expecting to have milestones met in order to meet a release date? So Brad bears no responsbilitiy then for presenting a false image? Think MS would have bought in if Brad had been honest? If he had said "We dont know when it'll get done, because this is an artistic process". Think MS just got the idea on their own that the game COULD be released summer of '06, with NO input from Sigil?
Brad McQuaid lost his company, and lost the job's of his employees not because of corporate greed, but because he was unfit to be the CEO of the company. At any point during the development, he SHOULD have realized that his ambitions for a game had to be tempered by the money he had available to fund his project. He should have provided adaquate tools and resources for his employees, he did not. At no point did he demonstrate leadership, and that's quite evident based on his own words, actions, and lack of actions, especially lately.
He could be a great idea man, but as far as being the guy who takes the idea, and actually brings it to market (understand, this isnt charity for dreams, this is a business) he's shown very little ability.
I respect your slight frustration at the endless conversation on this subject i really do. It is the high point of many gaming forums at present as its the culmination of months of speculation regarding a product that has disappointed a wide body of gamers and fans alike.
To be fair though mate we're not really discussing SOE in here, nothing to do with them really other than they are the new owner of the vanguard IP.
What and Whom we are discussing is Sigil Games Online and their senior management. (Or lack thereof)
If it bugs you that much my friend then just click on your Web Browser session and ALT-F4.
Thanks and regards.
Mag
Ouch!
I understand exactly what you are speaking of and agree with your statements full heartedly.
Unfortunately I seriously doubt the situation with Sigils management will change in the future.
Petty outlook atm, but such is life.
Cheers I apologise to you for my somewhat curt response. Very Sorry.
I hope for those Vanguard fans that remain and have stayed as dedicated paying customers that SOE will apply to the game the performance increases, optimizations, content and polish they deserve.
Considering SOE have reinstated over fifty of Sigils "Released" employees then that is a considerable statement of intent. Fifty is still a somewhat significant development team. If Vanguard is subject to the same QA now as what Everquest 2 has certainly been placed through in the last 12 months (whilst not globally successful and popular) it should produce a healthy game in the months ahead and i wish them all the best.
With a choice to defend himself about not showing up, not being a leader, he wants people to know that he met milestones, that he met those required dates. Want to know what doesnt ring true? If Microsoft had those hard dates, and milestones for a Summer '06 release, and if Sigil was meeting and exceeding them, then how on earth could they still have been as far from release as they ended up being? Are we to believe that MS was so incompetent that they did not set milestones that would see a game released, or are we to believe that this is just more spin from the salesman himself? Those things just dont add up, and if anything, they lend credence to the ex-Sigil employee interview where he suggests that they faked their way thru things with MS for quite a while.
Glad McQuaid has a handle on what's important.
So sad. Speaks volumes about Brad as a person.
After reading Brad's response I frankly hope he never leads another game again. He may be a great brainstormer, a good ideas person but never let him do a leadership role. He has endless amounts of passion which is a great quality...but god he is gutless. Not being there the day those employees were fired "because he would cry" !? Perhaps it is judgemental but it is true. And someone was having an affair in the office while his wife was there...OMG. This is movie material. I sincerely hope this entire drama does some good to the MMO industry and shows people not what to do when making an MMORPG.
I can't find anymore to say about this crazy soap opera.
Couple points here. I think Microsoft wanted a profitable MMO in their PC games line up. Neither WoW nor EQ2 were released when Microsoft signed Sigil to make their game correct? If so, it doesn't make sense to say they wanted a WoW killer because no one knew what WoW would become two years before it released.
Are you calling Brad a liar?
i think even though we will never know the whole truth of what really happened,Brad did not fail.Brad was the boss and the boss really doesn't do anything.Yes the CEO is 'spose to lead but he really is relying on everyone else working for him.And those same people are the REAL reason i believe Sigil fell apart.
i think simply put Brad didn't get enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.I truly believe for Brad's vision to be realized that he needed at least $75 million. He didn't get half of that.
And when his employees continueosly failed him he was doomed.Why,cause there wasn't enough cash.
I really hope Brad will get a new crew.And get at least $100 million to make a real smash hit.
I really honestly believe Brad didn't fail .....his team failed him.
I have already pointed my finger at who i think is to blame.
But like i said none of us will really know.
Yeah he is a liar
Yes he Failed
No i will never again buy any product he is leading in any way shape or form.
Vanguard is dead. Sigil is dead.
Its over.
toodles !
Aside from the rant i leave you this.
Vanguard even with THE VISION included, was bringing N O T H I N G new to MMOs. So if they gave him another 30 million, why ?
Don't you think that MS at one point saw where the project was going ( ZERO INNOVATION ) and said, well, this isnt going anywhere, we are out.
They couldnt have done it with 100 million.
They ignored the industry, they ignored what gamers really wanted, they didnt know how to deliver it, they didnt get it done in so many ways, from "THE VISION" on down.
When a company invests, or VC invests there has to be "there" there.... or something special about the product that is going to differentiate it to warrant a large investment. vanguard, did nothing in that regard, even if they didnt release yet, it would have brought nothing new to MMOs.
Meanwhile, WoW still dominates, and new titles are coming out that are innovative and different - LOTRO a story driven MMO, AOC, WAR
Couple points here. I think Microsoft wanted a profitable MMO in their PC games line up. Neither WoW nor EQ2 were released when Microsoft signed Sigil to make their game correct? If so, it doesn't make sense to say they wanted a WoW killer because no one knew what WoW would become two years before it released.
Are you calling Brad a liar?
i think even though we will never know the whole truth of what really happened,Brad did not fail.Brad was the boss and the boss really doesn't do anything.Yes the CEO is 'spose to lead but he really is relying on everyone else working for him.And those same people are the REAL reason i believe Sigil fell apart.
i think simply put Brad didn't get enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.I truly believe for Brad's vision to be realized that he needed at least $75 million. He didn't get half of that.
And when his employees continueosly failed him he was doomed.Why,cause there wasn't enough cash.
I really hope Brad will get a new crew.And get at least $100 million to make a real smash hit.
I really honestly believe Brad didn't fail .....his team failed him.
I have already pointed my finger at who i think is to blame.
But like i said none of us will really know.
It's not my place to call him a liar his posts speak for themselves. Any honest, objective look at them reveals something off-kilter despite your hero worship. Is that you Brad?
Brad's vision is for a niche game. A reasonable budget would be $3 million because that's the likely subscriber base that would support and keep such a 'vision' afloat. I hear he has lots of cars and motorbikes so his garage should host the dev team on his next project.
I really believe neither of my statements were disproved by your post. Care to try again?
And I really honestly believe Brad did fail ... his team suffered the consequences.
I have refuted your smelly finger because somewhere, someone does know and it is clearly not you.
Well, the ex-employee who gave that first interview did mention that Brad had hardly been in the office at all for months before the firings. It sounded almost as if he had abandoned the company. Maybe he figured it would seem a bit insensitive to show up to sack everyone after being absent for such a long time. At that point, I'm not sure it really mattered. His reputation with his own company must have been pretty well shot.
i think simply put Brad didn't get enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.I truly believe for Brad's vision to be realized that he needed at least $75 million. He didn't get half of that.
And when his employees continueosly failed him he was doomed.Why,cause there wasn't enough cash.
I'm sorry, but this is total bullshit. The fact is, with the way Microsoft operates, the money would have been there if the game had been there. Period.
If Sigil had been making actual progress on the game, meeting whatever milestones and schedules MS wanted, and if they'd shown a game that was shaping up to be a top-notch title, then Microsoft would have funded it more. They would have kept Sigil on board, and they would have worked alongside them to bring the game to fruition.
Don't blame his team for his crappy management, or for the fact that as CEO, he lacked the balls to crack the whip and get things done on time, and at a quality level. That's like blaming the infantry grunts on the front line when a general loses a battle. It's not their fault if the guy in charge has no idea what he's doing.
I really hope Brad will get a new crew.And get at least $100 million to make a real smash hit.
He got $30+ million and failed because of bad management, poor planning, and a spineless leadership style. The only thing giving him $100 million would accomplish is losing that much more money. It's his lack of leadership skills that is the problem, not the team he had working for him.
I really honestly believe Brad didn't fail .....his team failed him.
You've got it backwards. He failed them by not being there as a CEO, or as a team leader. And he doubly failed them all by not being there when the axe fell.
Originally posted by Supernerd i think simply put Brad didn't get enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.I truly believe for Brad's vision to be realized that he needed at least $75 million. He didn't get half of that. And when his employees continueosly failed him he was doomed.Why,cause there wasn't enough cash.
I'm sorry, but this is total bullshit. The fact is, with the way Microsoft operates, the money would have been there if the game had been there. Period.
If Sigil had been making actual progress on the game, meeting whatever milestones and schedules MS wanted, and if they'd shown a game that was shaping up to be a top-notch title, then Microsoft would have funded it more. They would have kept Sigil on board, and they would have worked alongside them to bring the game to fruition.
Don't blame his team for his crappy management, or for the fact that as CEO, he lacked the balls to crack the whip and get things done on time, and at a quality level. That's like blaming the infantry grunts on the front line when a general loses a battle. It's not their fault if the guy in charge has no idea what he's doing.
I really hope Brad will get a new crew.And get at least $100 million to make a real smash hit.
He got $30+ million and failed because of bad management, poor planning, and a spineless leadership style. The only thing giving him $100 million would accomplish is losing that much more money. It's his lack of leadership skills that is the problem, not the team he had working for him.
I really honestly believe Brad didn't fail .....his team failed him.
You've got it backwards. He failed them by not being there as a CEO, or as a team leader. And he doubly failed them all by not being there when the axe fell.
Totally agree with Lidane as previously posted.
I also strongly believe that whilst brad is at the top of the company and takes a considerable amount of the finger pointing in light of recent events i also believe that the likes of JEFF BUTLER, and ELAM ET AL are all equally to blame for the massive failing of the company as a whole and ultimately the demise of the product itself until its procurement by SOE.
I've just spent the last 10 hours (pausing briefly to work and crap and whatnot) reading the VSoH threads on this site and on FoH. My eyes are dry, my ass is cramped and I simply could not be any happier.
There isn't anough popcorn in the WORLD for this. Seriously.
Just thought I'd let you all know how much this has meant to me on a personal level. I'm going to stop now because I don't want anyone to see me cry.
I've just spent the last 10 hours (pausing briefly to work and crap and whatnot) reading the VSoH threads on this site and on FoH. My eyes are dry, my ass is cramped and I simply could not be any happier. There isn't anough popcorn in the WORLD for this. Seriously. Just thought I'd let you all know how much this has meant to me on a personal level. I'm going to stop now because I don't want anyone to see me cry.
True
I hate people lost their jobs but I also have never seen anything like this before and can't stop watching. I guess when EQI came out no one had blogs and people from FOH weren't minor celebrities who would one day have people work in the industry. The same internet that made EQI possible is now responsible for millions of people being interconnected to talk to old employees, search and quote Brad's speeches, look up old Nino posts, find pictures of the "other woman". Good grief you can't make crap like this up!
And for the record, I think Supernerd is using a bit of reverse tactics just to stir the pot here. Either he is egging people on for fun or he has completely lost it. You are only as good as your weakest link. Even if Brad wasn't that link at Sigil, it was his job to find out who was and kick their butts into gear.
Is Butler to blame? Hell yeah, he was upper management just like Brad. Did he do more than just start inner-office boinkings? I'm not sure because for the most part he kept his freaking mouth shut. Brad is being crucified right now because he couldn't shut his trap. For the last eight months he hasn't been at work. So why is posting about the state of a game he has no clue about. The sheer stupidity of Brad posting about sea battles and winged combat and floating cities from home while the staff churned away just trying to get the basic crap down is astounding.
If I was Smed I would send all of upper management and the PR department packing. Half of them were either cousins, drinking buddies, wives or or some sort of relation anyway.
I beta tested LOTRO and it's a straight up clone of WoW.
"Innovative."
Your full of crap, if you beta tested lotro, or played it, then you know its not a "straight up clonse of WoW" and your statement shows you to be nothing but a liar.
This isn't the forum to get into it, but even if you read about lotro you would know how its differnt
Your full of crap, if you beta tested lotro, or played it, then you know its not a "straight up clonse of WoW" and your statement shows you to be nothing but a liar. This isn't the forum to get into it, but even if you read about lotro you would know how its differnt
Umm, I did beta LOTRO. Check my post history.
In fact, I still have the beta client installed.
Whats innovative about it? It's a WoW clone sorry.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
"SOE for all of their past wrongs regarding the StarWars: Galaxies franchise, have picked up the remnants of a failed business, picked up its broken product with an attempt to give it a future and given to half of the employees of the failed business as many internal jobs as they can operationally allow. Id say good luck to SOE in shaping vanguards future and i hope they manage to make it a successful Niche title in the same scope as their efforts with the Everquest 2 product.
Regards
Mag "
Even if I feel VG is a good game (but should have been even better considering the budget etc.) I think Smedley tells the truth when he said it is the talent they want. That is they buy VG and probably will make a small profit on it long term, but the real reason for buying Sigil is some of the people who worked on the game and who SOE wants to get into their own teams.
WoW still dominates, and new titles are coming out that are innovative and different - LOTRO
LOL
I beta tested LOTRO and it's a straight up clone of WoW.
"Innovative."
However.....
Whether you love or hate LOTRO and whatever may be its more basic ambitions and mechanics it does actually work and provide a polished play experience...regardless of whether it plays similar to WoW and regardless of whether it is too simple and easy for some players, its utterly polished, Stable release ready and fun. It never claimed to reinvent the mechanics of a growing industry...
1. It supports Anti-Antiliasing a six year old graphics hardware technology.
2. Its a "Multithreaded" Application Code Base, it actually utilizes modern technology and supports SLI/Crossfire
3. It Utilizes Shader Model 3,
4. It had a solid Client during its later Beta Life cycle...so good in fact some beta players were willing to buy it as a release product four months before release.
5. In House Engine designed from the ground up with supporting tools for development of MMORPG environments...NOT a First Person Shooter Engine basterdized as a code level with in house compilers and larger than manageable chunk sizes.
6. It had twice as many successful pre order to sales within 2 weeks of launch than Vanguard has seen Complete Box Sales, in its first four months of live.
7. It scales in a way with Existing Hardware, that Vanguard just Doesnt.
8. Turbine ARE NOT the ones selling there only Assett as a business to SOE at this time.
9. These games are black and white examples of how an MMORPG release should be done on a business level and what concepts and concepts of design should be stuck too...for example the QA team at Turbine for the lotro project dev cycle was the size of the design and development teams put together and it "really" does show.
You can sit down now, you have just picked the wrong fight at this time...
Do you think Brad was really gonna break down and cry and that's why he didn't show up for the firing?
Come on.if he had the money he would have fired a lot of theml a long time before and redone his mid-management.
Don't you see what happened?
They all turned on him!his closest friends he trusted..They couldn't get along....
And he even stopped going to the office....
Didn't even goto the launch party!
I believe they all hated him and he hated them;but there was no more money and VG had to go gold.
He gave up a long long time ago.
Brad will be back and he will make a great mmorpg one day.he just needs someone to back him with the unreal amount of money it will take.
Blizzard has enough money to loan Brad so his vision can properly be carried out.
Maybe Blizzard should hire Brad.Imagine what Brad could do with PROS working for him.
It is probably true there were no warm feelings in the end, but he was the CEO and as CEO you are the one responsible for getting the right people on board. I too, hope that he will get another chance to design a new MMO but NOT to lead the company or even the development. I imagine he would be a good leader for the design department.
Whether you love or hate LOTRO and whatever may be its more basic ambitions and mechanics it does actually work and provide a polished play experience...regardless of whether it plays similar to WoW and regardless of whether it is too simple and easy for some players, its utterly polished, Stable release ready and fun. It never claimed to reinvent the mechanics of a growing industry...
I agree that is is indeed polished.
But with such a small game world, I'm sure it was easy to polish. Check my post history. In beta 5 I posted on how small the world was and then proved it:
It took me like 37 seconds to run the supposed "20 miles" from Buckleberry Ferry to Brandywine Bridge.
Case closed.
I'm a LOTR fan but man that game is weak.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
I had this big post all ready to smack ol themanthemantheman in the head for all the things he did wrong, but after reading his post, I don't have to.
He played it by the numbers:
Shop around for a job while your friends sink.
Blame EVERYONE but yourself. The Zoo Tycoon people? *chuckle* come on.
Take absolutely no credit for what happened.
Tell the employees that got royally, rudely, and embarrassingly fired in the PARKING LOT that you're "real sorry" *snicker* that they got the boot, but not sorry enough to give up one dollar of your salary.
Be chickenshit enough not to show up because someone (or maybe a group) would have beaten the shit out of him.
Pull out the "I'm really a Christan and stuff" card. Oh man. I hope hell has a pot and a dog with a pitchfork waiting for your ass.
Contort even believable possibility beyond reason: miker$of DARED to want to know where their $30m went? How dare they? They wanted timelines and planning and stuff? All you wanted was to drive your Ferrari around and look cool, eh?
NEVER EVER associate with the unwashed masses : "I think they had a big hot dog and burger cookout and let everyone go early." What an ass.
Be a super-flake with the depth of filo-dough: "I am a Christian so this probably goes back to me seeing 'Deities and Demigods' and kind of being bummed about that even though I still play [D&D]." Perhaps he'd have hoped that ol' jehova's stats were there?
"I believe very much in spreading the gospel of Christianity through ones actions." such as lie like a bastard, screw over your friends, run like a coward, gorge yourself on their misfortune, spew fake pity, and be a sniveling flake? On second thought he does sound like most Christians I know.
Blabber a bunch of stupid bullshit and never say anything: "I honestly don't know when it started. I probably started using... I think it had to do with something I commented on - why some games - well, you can tell if a development team really had their hearts in it or not, regardless of the type of game it may be. I think for any game, you need a vision. Either a visionary or visionaries and if you don't have that, you kind of meander around and I don't think you get nearly as strong of a game. Or anything. A piece of art. Anything creative. Unless there's a strong vision. My guess is I was doing a long-winded post back in 1999." The translation to this is: "I'm a whiny and flaky little bastard and now everyone is picking on me about the "Vision" thing, and I suck, so I want to try to play that down so the big people won't keep kicking my ass and taking my lunch money."
There really is no end to the amount of stupidity and entertainment and no-speak in the original article. I fail to see how anyone could stand up for themanthemantheman after that.
And I thought about saying that I would personally piss-in-effigy on anyone that would play any game with this idiot attached, but... in foresight, I don't really have to. You'll get what is coming to ya.
And jesus christ, will no one please give this idiot or kunster (the other moron) any other design jobs? Hell, go down to your local gaming (P&P or wargaming) shop and point at some random scruffy looking people. They'll do much better at "Visioning".
Whether you love or hate LOTRO and whatever may be its more basic ambitions and mechanics it does actually work and provide a polished play experience...regardless of whether it plays similar to WoW and regardless of whether it is too simple and easy for some players, its utterly polished, Stable release ready and fun. It never claimed to reinvent the mechanics of a growing industry...
I agree that is is indeed polished.
But with such a small game world, I'm sure it was easy to polish. Check my post history. In beta 5 I posted on how small the world was and then proved it:
It took me like 37 seconds to run the supposed "20 miles" from Buckleberry Ferry to Brandywine Bridge.
Case closed.
I'm a LOTR fan but man that game is weak.
Mmmm the above you have so elequently used a counter point to mine own posting of differences in these products is an astounding display of why i should bow to your forum superiority....
Or This.....
1. It supports Anti-Antiliasing a six year old graphics hardware technology.
2. Its a "Multithreaded" Application Code Base, it actually utilizes modern technology and supports SLI/Crossfire
3. It Utilizes Shader Model 3,
4. It had a solid Client during its later Beta Life cycle...so good in fact some beta players were willing to buy it as a release product four months before release.
5. In House Engine designed from the ground up with supporting tools for development of MMORPG environments...NOT a First Person Shooter Engine basterdized as a code level with in house compilers and larger than manageable chunk sizes.
6. It had twice as many successful pre order to sales within 2 weeks of launch than Vanguard has seen Complete Box Sales, in its first four months of live.
7. It scales in a way with Existing Hardware, that Vanguard just Doesnt.
8. Turbine ARE NOT the ones selling there only Assett as a business to SOE at this time.
9. These games are black and white examples of how an MMORPG release should be done on a business level and what concepts and concepts of design should be stuck too...for example the QA team at Turbine for the lotro project dev cycle was the size of the design and development teams put together and it "really" does show.
Im not a fanboy of either application, i just realise the quality in a product when i see it. I think most of my points stated were facts not opinion...
No, No No my friend....people in glass houses at this time perhaps shouldnt throw stones..."Your Case" has just been closed.
Comments
With a choice to defend himself about not showing up, not being a leader, he wants people to know that he met milestones, that he met those required dates. Want to know what doesnt ring true? If Microsoft had those hard dates, and milestones for a Summer '06 release, and if Sigil was meeting and exceeding them, then how on earth could they still have been as far from release as they ended up being? Are we to believe that MS was so incompetent that they did not set milestones that would see a game released, or are we to believe that this is just more spin from the salesman himself? Those things just dont add up, and if anything, they lend credence to the ex-Sigil employee interview where he suggests that they faked their way thru things with MS for quite a while.
Glad McQuaid has a handle on what's important.
So some don't think the game is fun and were disappointed. That gives people the sense that they have a right to say all the extreme and ugly things about a person they don't even know?
Just love how so many people in these forums think they are MMO 'experts' or something.
These forums are like a ghetto full of the most negative assholes ever assembled in one place.
Why is it so hard to believe that a huge corporation like Microsoft screwed him over? And they did! After all they did to him he still has the decency to try and speak well of them. Thats what I call professional.
I know of greed and I know the power money has over people. It's a religion of capital. It's all most people know or even consider.
I have always thought people like Raph Koster and Brad McQuaid are misunderstood and flawed artists. Laugh all you want. You say I'm "scary" because you are so 'shocked' that someone disagrees with something you believe to be a given fact.
Both these visionaries have had major failings. Koster with SWG and McQuaid with VG. Both failing because of huge corporate greed. Neither getting to fully realize their vision. Both projects destroyed due to the pursuit of more money faster.
Whats scary is the level of hate and ignorance in this thread.
Some people lost their jobs and that is terrible - almost as terrible as McQuaid losing his entire company and dream due to corporate greed. I feel sad for all at Sigil.
To McQuaid I would remind him of something Nietzsche wrote - "what can not destroy you can only make you stronger!"
Microsoft screwed HIM over?
By asking for progress on a multi-million dollar investment? By not having scripting tools and other designer tools to make the programmers work easier and faster? Microsoft screwed him by expecting to have milestones met in order to meet a release date? So Brad bears no responsbilitiy then for presenting a false image? Think MS would have bought in if Brad had been honest? If he had said "We dont know when it'll get done, because this is an artistic process". Think MS just got the idea on their own that the game COULD be released summer of '06, with NO input from Sigil?
Brad McQuaid lost his company, and lost the job's of his employees not because of corporate greed, but because he was unfit to be the CEO of the company. At any point during the development, he SHOULD have realized that his ambitions for a game had to be tempered by the money he had available to fund his project. He should have provided adaquate tools and resources for his employees, he did not. At no point did he demonstrate leadership, and that's quite evident based on his own words, actions, and lack of actions, especially lately.
He could be a great idea man, but as far as being the guy who takes the idea, and actually brings it to market (understand, this isnt charity for dreams, this is a business) he's shown very little ability.
I understand exactly what you are speaking of and agree with your statements full heartedly.
Unfortunately I seriously doubt the situation with Sigils management will change in the future.
Petty outlook atm, but such is life.
Cheers
I hope for those Vanguard fans that remain and have stayed as dedicated paying customers that SOE will apply to the game the performance increases, optimizations, content and polish they deserve.
Considering SOE have reinstated over fifty of Sigils "Released" employees then that is a considerable statement of intent. Fifty is still a somewhat significant development team. If Vanguard is subject to the same QA now as what Everquest 2 has certainly been placed through in the last 12 months (whilst not globally successful and popular) it should produce a healthy game in the months ahead and i wish them all the best.
Regards
Mag
So sad.
After reading Brad's response I frankly hope he never leads another game again. He may be a great brainstormer, a good ideas person but never let him do a leadership role. He has endless amounts of passion which is a great quality...but god he is gutless. Not being there the day those employees were fired "because he would cry" !? Perhaps it is judgemental but it is true. And someone was having an affair in the office while his wife was there...OMG. This is movie material. I sincerely hope this entire drama does some good to the MMO industry and shows people not what to do when making an MMORPG.
I can't find anymore to say about this crazy soap opera.
i think even though we will never know the whole truth of what really happened,Brad did not fail.Brad was the boss and the boss really doesn't do anything.Yes the CEO is 'spose to lead but he really is relying on everyone else working for him.And those same people are the REAL reason i believe Sigil fell apart.
i think simply put Brad didn't get enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.I truly believe for Brad's vision to be realized that he needed at least $75 million. He didn't get half of that.
And when his employees continueosly failed him he was doomed.Why,cause there wasn't enough cash.
I really hope Brad will get a new crew.And get at least $100 million to make a real smash hit.
I really honestly believe Brad didn't fail .....his team failed him.
I have already pointed my finger at who i think is to blame.
But like i said none of us will really know.
Yeah he is a liar
Yes he Failed
No i will never again buy any product he is leading in any way shape or form.
Vanguard is dead. Sigil is dead.
Its over.
toodles !
Aside from the rant i leave you this.
Vanguard even with THE VISION included, was bringing N O T H I N G new to MMOs. So if they gave him another 30 million, why ?
Don't you think that MS at one point saw where the project was going ( ZERO INNOVATION ) and said, well, this isnt going anywhere, we are out.
They couldnt have done it with 100 million.
They ignored the industry, they ignored what gamers really wanted, they didnt know how to deliver it, they didnt get it done in so many ways, from "THE VISION" on down.
When a company invests, or VC invests there has to be "there" there.... or something special about the product that is going to differentiate it to warrant a large investment. vanguard, did nothing in that regard, even if they didnt release yet, it would have brought nothing new to MMOs.
Meanwhile, WoW still dominates, and new titles are coming out that are innovative and different - LOTRO a story driven MMO, AOC, WAR
etc
etc
etc
So what, another 30 million to make eq 1.5 ? lol
-Allegria
Do you think Brad was really gonna break down and cry and that's why he didn't show up for the firing?
Come on.if he had the money he would have fired a lot of theml a long time before and redone his mid-management.
Don't you see what happened?
They all turned on him!his closest friends he trusted..They couldn't get along....
And he even stopped going to the office....
Didn't even goto the launch party!
I believe they all hated him and he hated them;but there was no more money and VG had to go gold.
He gave up a long long time ago.
Brad will be back and he will make a great mmorpg one day.he just needs someone to back him with the unreal amount of money it will take.
Blizzard has enough money to loan Brad so his vision can properly be carried out.
Maybe Blizzard should hire Brad.Imagine what Brad could do with PROS working for him.
i think even though we will never know the whole truth of what really happened,Brad did not fail.Brad was the boss and the boss really doesn't do anything.Yes the CEO is 'spose to lead but he really is relying on everyone else working for him.And those same people are the REAL reason i believe Sigil fell apart.
i think simply put Brad didn't get enough $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.I truly believe for Brad's vision to be realized that he needed at least $75 million. He didn't get half of that.
And when his employees continueosly failed him he was doomed.Why,cause there wasn't enough cash.
I really hope Brad will get a new crew.And get at least $100 million to make a real smash hit.
I really honestly believe Brad didn't fail .....his team failed him.
I have already pointed my finger at who i think is to blame.
But like i said none of us will really know.
It's not my place to call him a liar his posts speak for themselves. Any honest, objective look at them reveals something off-kilter despite your hero worship. Is that you Brad?
Brad's vision is for a niche game. A reasonable budget would be $3 million because that's the likely subscriber base that would support and keep such a 'vision' afloat. I hear he has lots of cars and motorbikes so his garage should host the dev team on his next project.
I really believe neither of my statements were disproved by your post. Care to try again?
And I really honestly believe Brad did fail ... his team suffered the consequences.
I have refuted your smelly finger because somewhere, someone does know and it is clearly not you.
Is Brad going threw with the operation to get Metal Legs? I understand it's pretty risky...
Until death do us part?
You wanted control ,you wanted all the power....
You were best pals,best buds once...
now you are enemies.
You were the right-hand man...
He trusted you.
Why would Blizzard hire Brad? he didnt even play WoW . No wonder his vision was all fracked up.
I'm sorry, but this is total bullshit. The fact is, with the way Microsoft operates, the money would have been there if the game had been there. Period.
If Sigil had been making actual progress on the game, meeting whatever milestones and schedules MS wanted, and if they'd shown a game that was shaping up to be a top-notch title, then Microsoft would have funded it more. They would have kept Sigil on board, and they would have worked alongside them to bring the game to fruition.
Don't blame his team for his crappy management, or for the fact that as CEO, he lacked the balls to crack the whip and get things done on time, and at a quality level. That's like blaming the infantry grunts on the front line when a general loses a battle. It's not their fault if the guy in charge has no idea what he's doing.
He got $30+ million and failed because of bad management, poor planning, and a spineless leadership style. The only thing giving him $100 million would accomplish is losing that much more money. It's his lack of leadership skills that is the problem, not the team he had working for him.
You've got it backwards. He failed them by not being there as a CEO, or as a team leader. And he doubly failed them all by not being there when the axe fell.
I'm sorry, but this is total bullshit. The fact is, with the way Microsoft operates, the money would have been there if the game had been there. Period.
If Sigil had been making actual progress on the game, meeting whatever milestones and schedules MS wanted, and if they'd shown a game that was shaping up to be a top-notch title, then Microsoft would have funded it more. They would have kept Sigil on board, and they would have worked alongside them to bring the game to fruition.
Don't blame his team for his crappy management, or for the fact that as CEO, he lacked the balls to crack the whip and get things done on time, and at a quality level. That's like blaming the infantry grunts on the front line when a general loses a battle. It's not their fault if the guy in charge has no idea what he's doing.
He got $30+ million and failed because of bad management, poor planning, and a spineless leadership style. The only thing giving him $100 million would accomplish is losing that much more money. It's his lack of leadership skills that is the problem, not the team he had working for him.
You've got it backwards. He failed them by not being there as a CEO, or as a team leader. And he doubly failed them all by not being there when the axe fell.
Totally agree with Lidane as previously posted.
I also strongly believe that whilst brad is at the top of the company and takes a considerable amount of the finger pointing in light of recent events i also believe that the likes of JEFF BUTLER, and ELAM ET AL are all equally to blame for the massive failing of the company as a whole and ultimately the demise of the product itself until its procurement by SOE.
Regards
Mag
I've just spent the last 10 hours (pausing briefly to work and crap and whatnot) reading the VSoH threads on this site and on FoH. My eyes are dry, my ass is cramped and I simply could not be any happier.
There isn't anough popcorn in the WORLD for this. Seriously.
Just thought I'd let you all know how much this has meant to me on a personal level. I'm going to stop now because I don't want anyone to see me cry.
True
I hate people lost their jobs but I also have never seen anything like this before and can't stop watching. I guess when EQI came out no one had blogs and people from FOH weren't minor celebrities who would one day have people work in the industry. The same internet that made EQI possible is now responsible for millions of people being interconnected to talk to old employees, search and quote Brad's speeches, look up old Nino posts, find pictures of the "other woman". Good grief you can't make crap like this up!
And for the record, I think Supernerd is using a bit of reverse tactics just to stir the pot here. Either he is egging people on for fun or he has completely lost it. You are only as good as your weakest link. Even if Brad wasn't that link at Sigil, it was his job to find out who was and kick their butts into gear.
Is Butler to blame? Hell yeah, he was upper management just like Brad. Did he do more than just start inner-office boinkings? I'm not sure because for the most part he kept his freaking mouth shut. Brad is being crucified right now because he couldn't shut his trap. For the last eight months he hasn't been at work. So why is posting about the state of a game he has no clue about. The sheer stupidity of Brad posting about sea battles and winged combat and floating cities from home while the staff churned away just trying to get the basic crap down is astounding.
If I was Smed I would send all of upper management and the PR department packing. Half of them were either cousins, drinking buddies, wives or or some sort of relation anyway.
I beta tested LOTRO and it's a straight up clone of WoW.
"Innovative."
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Your full of crap, if you beta tested lotro, or played it, then you know its not a "straight up clonse of WoW" and your statement shows you to be nothing but a liar.
This isn't the forum to get into it, but even if you read about lotro you would know how its differnt
In fact, I still have the beta client installed.
Whats innovative about it? It's a WoW clone sorry.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
Quote:
"SOE for all of their past wrongs regarding the StarWars: Galaxies franchise, have picked up the remnants of a failed business, picked up its broken product with an attempt to give it a future and given to half of the employees of the failed business as many internal jobs as they can operationally allow. Id say good luck to SOE in shaping vanguards future and i hope they manage to make it a successful Niche title in the same scope as their efforts with the Everquest 2 product.
Regards
Mag "
Even if I feel VG is a good game (but should have been even better considering the budget etc.) I think Smedley tells the truth when he said it is the talent they want. That is they buy VG and probably will make a small profit on it long term, but the real reason for buying Sigil is some of the people who worked on the game and who SOE wants to get into their own teams.
I beta tested LOTRO and it's a straight up clone of WoW.
"Innovative."
However.....
Whether you love or hate LOTRO and whatever may be its more basic ambitions and mechanics it does actually work and provide a polished play experience...regardless of whether it plays similar to WoW and regardless of whether it is too simple and easy for some players, its utterly polished, Stable release ready and fun. It never claimed to reinvent the mechanics of a growing industry...
1. It supports Anti-Antiliasing a six year old graphics hardware technology.
2. Its a "Multithreaded" Application Code Base, it actually utilizes modern technology and supports SLI/Crossfire
3. It Utilizes Shader Model 3,
4. It had a solid Client during its later Beta Life cycle...so good in fact some beta players were willing to buy it as a release product four months before release.
5. In House Engine designed from the ground up with supporting tools for development of MMORPG environments...NOT a First Person Shooter Engine basterdized as a code level with in house compilers and larger than manageable chunk sizes.
6. It had twice as many successful pre order to sales within 2 weeks of launch than Vanguard has seen Complete Box Sales, in its first four months of live.
7. It scales in a way with Existing Hardware, that Vanguard just Doesnt.
8. Turbine ARE NOT the ones selling there only Assett as a business to SOE at this time.
9. These games are black and white examples of how an MMORPG release should be done on a business level and what concepts and concepts of design should be stuck too...for example the QA team at Turbine for the lotro project dev cycle was the size of the design and development teams put together and it "really" does show.
You can sit down now, you have just picked the wrong fight at this time...
Regards
Mag
But with such a small game world, I'm sure it was easy to polish. Check my post history. In beta 5 I posted on how small the world was and then proved it:
It took me like 37 seconds to run the supposed "20 miles" from Buckleberry Ferry to Brandywine Bridge.
Case closed.
I'm a LOTR fan but man that game is weak.
I miss the good ol' days when nerds were actually intelligent.
He played it by the numbers:
There really is no end to the amount of stupidity and entertainment and no-speak in the original article. I fail to see how anyone could stand up for themanthemantheman after that.
And I thought about saying that I would personally piss-in-effigy on anyone that would play any game with this idiot attached, but... in foresight, I don't really have to. You'll get what is coming to ya.
And jesus christ, will no one please give this idiot or kunster (the other moron) any other design jobs? Hell, go down to your local gaming (P&P or wargaming) shop and point at some random scruffy looking people. They'll do much better at "Visioning".
I knew Zoo Tycoon 2; Zoo Tycoon 2 was a friend of mine.
Vanguard, you're no Zoo Tycoon 2.
But with such a small game world, I'm sure it was easy to polish. Check my post history. In beta 5 I posted on how small the world was and then proved it:
It took me like 37 seconds to run the supposed "20 miles" from Buckleberry Ferry to Brandywine Bridge.
Case closed.
I'm a LOTR fan but man that game is weak.
Mmmm the above you have so elequently used a counter point to mine own posting of differences in these products is an astounding display of why i should bow to your forum superiority....
Or This.....
1. It supports Anti-Antiliasing a six year old graphics hardware technology.
2. Its a "Multithreaded" Application Code Base, it actually utilizes modern technology and supports SLI/Crossfire
3. It Utilizes Shader Model 3,
4. It had a solid Client during its later Beta Life cycle...so good in fact some beta players were willing to buy it as a release product four months before release.
5. In House Engine designed from the ground up with supporting tools for development of MMORPG environments...NOT a First Person Shooter Engine basterdized as a code level with in house compilers and larger than manageable chunk sizes.
6. It had twice as many successful pre order to sales within 2 weeks of launch than Vanguard has seen Complete Box Sales, in its first four months of live.
7. It scales in a way with Existing Hardware, that Vanguard just Doesnt.
8. Turbine ARE NOT the ones selling there only Assett as a business to SOE at this time.
9. These games are black and white examples of how an MMORPG release should be done on a business level and what concepts and concepts of design should be stuck too...for example the QA team at Turbine for the lotro project dev cycle was the size of the design and development teams put together and it "really" does show.
Im not a fanboy of either application, i just realise the quality in a product when i see it. I think most of my points stated were facts not opinion...
No, No No my friend....people in glass houses at this time perhaps shouldnt throw stones..."Your Case" has just been closed.
Kind Regards
Mag