About that last bit, even had the game been a resounding financial success the dev team would have been reduced after launch so let's not pretend jobs in this industry are "jobs for life," eh?
If the game had been a resounding financial success, this thread wouldn't exist.
Strange, but I feel reminded of a witch hunt the more posts I do read.
Witch hunt? The guy had $30+ million to spend, the backing of Microsoft, and 4+ years to develop his game. Had Sigil actually had some discipline in running the show, with those nasty schedules and deadlines that Brad seems to hate so much, they might have done two things:
1. Put out a much better, more focused game, since, you know, businesses run much more smoothly when you have a freaking plan,
and
2. If Microsoft had seen results that they felt were on the right track, SOE would never have entered the picture at all. MS is a company that will fund something, regardless of any potential losses, if they feel it is worthwhile. Just look at their consoles-- they're losing hundreds of dollars on each one sold and they don't care, because they believe in them that strongly. Had Vanguard been developed properly, with real progress, real direction and clarity, and a stable operation, then MS probably would have kept them on.
Instead, what did Microsoft get for their time and money? A company that was so disorganized and poorly run that the second in command was openly nailing the marketing director while his wife was in the same office. They got a CEO who's apparently a eunuch, since he lacked the balls to be a real leader when it counted, like when it came to maintaining a production schedule for his game, or hiring and firing people, and who doesn't even have the decency to show up when half his employees are laid off in a freaking parking lot because he might cry. WTF?
The fact that Sigil managed to release a game at all, given the chaos and total mismanagement that clearly plagued them, is a fucking miracle. And Brad McQuaid has done the one thing that I didn't believe possible-- he made Smed and the rest of SOE look even better by all of this than they did before.
If anything, SOE should be given Good Samaritan awards for taking on this project and trying to turn it around. Clearly, Sigil weren't up to the task because their leaders were either screwing around or too weak and spineless to take a stand on anything.
Very well said espeically about SOE! I would have to say, folks, that this about summarizes the state of affairs for the entire time Sigil was under the "wings" of Microsoft.
As alluded to in another post, this seems to be a frightening trend for many of the current MMO's in devlopment.
Poor management
Misguided/misdirected leadership
Wasted time
Wasted money
Stress
Way too much hype
Unattainable/unrealistic expectations
Pressure to release a product make the quick "buck" $$$
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Unlike Lidane, I can appreciate that Brad at the very least created an environment that was a joy to work in, not to mention providing 100+ employees with one hell of a work experience to add to their resume.
Yeah! It was such a joy for people to work 16-20 hours a day for the last year and a half to come up with a game when they'd had 4+ years and $30+ million to spend doing it. Oh, and that game ended up being released "early" because they ran out of time and money, when the reality is, if they'd had a goddamn plan from the start, they would have been in much better shape.
And I'm sure it was a joy to work in a place where management was clearly out of their depths, clueless, and grossly incompetent, and who'd get pissy when Microsoft, who was paying for the damned thing in the first place, started asking questions. Let's not forget the company President nailing the Marketing Director while his soon to be ex-wife was employed at the same company. I'm sure that was a barrel of laughs too.
What on earth was I thinking? Clearly it was Shangri-La instead of a nightmare of incompetence, nepotism, and gross mismanagement.
Some of them are without jobs today, it's true but none of them walk away from this venture with nothing.
I suppose that's true. Half of them walked away without a job, and on their way to the unemployment office. I'm sure that counts for something. And they had the experience of being fired in a parking lot while their CEO was curled up somewhere afraid to face them because he'd cry. I'm sure that makes for great conversation around the dinner table.
Amris?
About that last bit, even had the game been a resounding financial success the dev team would have been reduced after launch so let's not pretend jobs in this industry are "jobs for life," eh?
You have no clue what your talking about there Kari. If the game had been successful they would of kept the staff they felt was good to maintain/expand the game And to began a new project. It's standard to rotate employees in this way in the industry. Brad had even mentioned that there was an intent for sigil to workl on future products.
Unlike Lidane, I can appreciate that Brad at the very least created an environment that was a joy to work in, not to mention providing 100+ employees with one hell of a work experience to add to their resume.
Yeah! It was such a joy for people to work 16-20 hours a day for the last year and a half to come up with a game when they'd had 4+ years and $30+ million to spend doing it. Oh, and that game ended up being released "early" because they ran out of time and money, when the reality is, if they'd had a goddamn plan from the start, they would have been in much better shape.
And I'm sure it was a joy to work in a place where management was clearly out of their depths, clueless, and grossly incompetent, and who'd get pissy when Microsoft, who was paying for the damned thing in the first place, started asking questions. Let's not forget the company President nailing the Marketing Director while his soon to be ex-wife was employed at the same company. I'm sure that was a barrel of laughs too.
What on earth was I thinking? Clearly it was Shangri-La instead of a nightmare of incompetence, nepotism, and gross mismanagement.
Some of them are without jobs today, it's true but none of them walk away from this venture with nothing.
I suppose that's true. Half of them walked away without a job, and on their way to the unemployment office. I'm sure that counts for something. And they had the experience of being fired in a parking lot while their CEO was curled up somewhere afraid to face them because he'd cry. I'm sure that makes for great conversation around the dinner table.
Amris?
About that last bit, even had the game been a resounding financial success the dev team would have been reduced after launch so let's not pretend jobs in this industry are "jobs for life," eh?
Let's not confuse Vanguard's "development team" with Sigil's entire staff, even though you could considering that was the situation at the time. As you can see in the interview though, Sigil was already entertaining the idea of a second product outside of the initial Vanguard, which may or may not have been Vanguard's first expansion which needs to be considered as well. Point being, Sigil would've grew had Vanguard been successful, not shrunk.
You're right about no one's job being a job for life, but why go out on a limb to try and normalize nearly an entire company being fired in a parking lot by a guy they barely knew?
Unlike Lidane, I can appreciate that Brad at the very least created an environment that was a joy to work in, not to mention providing 100+ employees with one hell of a work experience to add to their resume.
Yeah! It was such a joy for people to work 16-20 hours a day for the last year and a half to come up with a game when they'd had 4+ years and $30+ million to spend doing it. Oh, and that game ended up being released "early" because they ran out of time and money, when the reality is, if they'd had a goddamn plan from the start, they would have been in much better shape.
And I'm sure it was a joy to work in a place where management was clearly out of their depths, clueless, and grossly incompetent, and who'd get pissy when Microsoft, who was paying for the damned thing in the first place, started asking questions. Let's not forget the company President nailing the Marketing Director while his soon to be ex-wife was employed at the same company. I'm sure that was a barrel of laughs too.
What on earth was I thinking? Clearly it was Shangri-La instead of a nightmare of incompetence, nepotism, and gross mismanagement.
Some of them are without jobs today, it's true but none of them walk away from this venture with nothing.
I suppose that's true. Half of them walked away without a job, and on their way to the unemployment office. I'm sure that counts for something. And they had the experience of being fired in a parking lot while their CEO was curled up somewhere afraid to face them because he'd cry. I'm sure that makes for great conversation around the dinner table.
Amris?
About that last bit, even had the game been a resounding financial success the dev team would have been reduced after launch so let's not pretend jobs in this industry are "jobs for life," eh?
Let's not confuse Vanguard's "development team" with Sigil's entire staff, even though you could considering that was the situation at the time. As you can see in the interview though, Sigil was already entertaining the idea of a second product outside of the initial Vanguard, which may or may not have been Vanguard's first expansion which needs to be considered as well. Point being, Sigil would've grew had Vanguard been successful, not shrunk.
You're right about no one's job being a job for life, but why go out on a limb to try and normalize nearly an entire company being fired in a parking lot by a guy they barely knew?
I'll say this it is pretty standard in the comp. industry to fire people without any notice and have them leave the workplace immediately because it is so easy to sabbatoge something in the programming/intellectual design industries.
Bottom line they rolled the dice and lost. Yes, Brad absolutely should have been the one to give his people the news, no matter how much that hurt, but that was a mistake he will have to live with. Clearly Sigil made a lot of mistakes on the way up ... and came down hard as a result.
I do respect that Brad did actually front up to the net at least, it would have been all too easy for him to say "you need to talk to SOE now" and leave it at that. But he didn't. Overall, there are some really good things in Vanguard; while I expect SOE will successfully kill the game anyway there were clearly some good people in Sigil, and they are now free to move onwards and upwards to better funded projects. Maybe WoW2?
f13.net: And the next party... god, I am a fucking cynic. Why weren't you at the firing party? Brad McQuaid:: Well, this is going to sound corny but it's true. I would have broken down in tears.
Actually the proper term for this is "cowardice".
I had hopes for this game when it was first announced, but it fairly quickly became clear that it would not be a casual game. It was clear to me anyway, that Brad was out of touch with the gaming comunnity, so I gave up on it.
Reading this interview, it is like watching a train wreck. You know it is bad, you know a lot of people are getting hurt, but you just can't turn away....
Good luck to those who were fired, it is a crying shame you didn't have more mature leadership in your company.
Does it scare you that men are passionate and have feelings?
Maybe you should go to concrete land where we're all robots and women are just meat?
Seriously for the topic though: I fully respect him for that, Brad's been burning for his game so hard and just had it shattered. God I love passion in games
Real passion would be to have enough of a bond with those people to have cried and still given a speech and thanking them. Running away is cowardice. BMQ has been running for so long he thinks everyone else is moving and he is standing still.
Ya, just f'ing perfect. You mean the company that has invested $30 mil in your crappy game actually wants you to set milestones and timelines? You mean they wanted you to try and wrap something up that had been in development for years? You mean they wanted you to stop running your company like a grade-school art project and run it like a business??
This guy is just priceless. The only people who still support anything he says are people who have not worked in the real world. Do you think my company would just allow me to work, doing whatever the h*ll I wanted, and then say, "oh that technology didn't work, we are going to try a new one?" This whole thing is absurd. The game sux. This guy is retarded and is someone who should never have been in charge of a company as he has no idea how the real business world is run.
Microsoft, I applaud you. Sometimes you got to "know when to hold em.......know when to walk away.......know when to run."
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
Ya, just f'ing perfect. You mean the company that has invested $30 mil in your crappy game actually wants you to set milestones and timelines? You mean they wanted you to try and wrap something up that had been in development for years? You mean they wanted you to stop running your company like a grade-school art project and run it like a business??
This guy is just priceless. The only people who still support anything he says are people who have not worked in the real world. Do you think my company would just allow me to work, doing whatever the h*ll I wanted, and then say, "oh that technology didn't work, we are going to try a new one?" This whole thing is absurd. The game sux. This guy is retarded and is someone who should never have been in charge of a company as he has no idea how the real business world is run.
Microsoft, I applaud you. Sometimes you got to "know when to hold em.......know when to walk away.......know when to run."
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
Blizzard also made an entire suite of very good development tools before they even started making content, Sigil had bupkiss. Blizzard is just far more professional, no amount of money could make Sigil competitive with Blizzard.
Ya, just f'ing perfect. You mean the company that has invested $30 mil in your crappy game actually wants you to set milestones and timelines? You mean they wanted you to try and wrap something up that had been in development for years? You mean they wanted you to stop running your company like a grade-school art project and run it like a business??
This guy is just priceless. The only people who still support anything he says are people who have not worked in the real world. Do you think my company would just allow me to work, doing whatever the h*ll I wanted, and then say, "oh that technology didn't work, we are going to try a new one?" This whole thing is absurd. The game sux. This guy is retarded and is someone who should never have been in charge of a company as he has no idea how the real business world is run.
Microsoft, I applaud you. Sometimes you got to "know when to hold em.......know when to walk away.......know when to run."
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
It would have been the same but he would have squandered $80 million instead of $30 million. Plus maybe they would have had more beer bashes or something. If Sigil had the budget of the US Government to make a game they would have failed. It would have just been a bigger failure.
Ya, just f'ing perfect. You mean the company that has invested $30 mil in your crappy game actually wants you to set milestones and timelines? You mean they wanted you to try and wrap something up that had been in development for years? You mean they wanted you to stop running your company like a grade-school art project and run it like a business??
This guy is just priceless. The only people who still support anything he says are people who have not worked in the real world. Do you think my company would just allow me to work, doing whatever the h*ll I wanted, and then say, "oh that technology didn't work, we are going to try a new one?" This whole thing is absurd. The game sux. This guy is retarded and is someone who should never have been in charge of a company as he has no idea how the real business world is run.
Microsoft, I applaud you. Sometimes you got to "know when to hold em.......know when to walk away.......know when to run."
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
It would have been the same but he would have squandered $80 million instead of $30 million. Plus maybe they would have had more beer bashes or something. If Sigil had the budget of the US Government to make a game they would have failed. It would have just been a bigger failure.
Yes, as explained microsoft dropped sigil not because they wouldn't invest more money, but they were unwilling to invest more money when there wasn't anything to show for the 30 million they had already dropped on Vanguard.
Ya, just f'ing perfect. You mean the company that has invested $30 mil in your crappy game actually wants you to set milestones and timelines? You mean they wanted you to try and wrap something up that had been in development for years? You mean they wanted you to stop running your company like a grade-school art project and run it like a business??
This guy is just priceless. The only people who still support anything he says are people who have not worked in the real world. Do you think my company would just allow me to work, doing whatever the h*ll I wanted, and then say, "oh that technology didn't work, we are going to try a new one?" This whole thing is absurd. The game sux. This guy is retarded and is someone who should never have been in charge of a company as he has no idea how the real business world is run.
Microsoft, I applaud you. Sometimes you got to "know when to hold em.......know when to walk away.......know when to run."
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
It would have been the same but he would have squandered $80 million instead of $30 million. Plus maybe they would have had more beer bashes or something. If Sigil had the budget of the US Government to make a game they would have failed. It would have just been a bigger failure.
Yes, as explained microsoft dropped sigil not because they wouldn't invest more money, but they were unwilling to invest more money when there wasn't anything to show for the 30 million they had already dropped on Vanguard.
Yep. It's not like anyone would drop a quarter into a drink machine, the display not increment, and then decide to keep dropping quarters in anyway.
No one can say just how far Microsoft would have gone if they were happy with Sigil's progress with Vanguard, so that's not worth arguing over. Someone could try arguing over whether Microsoft's decision on Sigil's worth was accurate though, but considering Vanguard's current state and the fate of the company...
The War Czar for the Bush Administration. Karl Rove said Brad was a genius at mismanaging clusterf$#*s.
Shayde - SWG (dead) Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled - Some deluded SWG fanboi who pities me. I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too. 09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
What strikes me the most in this interview is that it really seems he, as the boss of the company, had no idea of what was going on! Not the slightest idea of how to lead the work or the company as a whole!
Still I pretty much share Brads vision of what an MMORPG could and maybe should be, but it is quite clear that while he may have a good vision he should find himself someone who can actually lead a company and a dev. team. Even if I have the feeling he really had his chance with VG, if I was a venture capitalist I would sure think twice before giving him money for a project.
wow..I love f13 they utterly and completely spanked Brad. No sugar coating that interview. Brad was home and he was afraid he'll cry...that's why he got someone that no one basically knew to fire them in the parking lot. What a piece of sh*t
Yes I agree. He was the boss and it was his company, so what if he had cried and cried all day long. That is as it should be and would only have proved to the employees that he actually cared, very poor excuse for not being there.
<snip> 1. He passes blame to everyone but himself 2. He couldn't even be around and be a leader because he was unable to emotionally handle it ( becuase of selfishness ) </snip>
Can't agree with those statements. He tries to get away better than he possibly should but declines ANY fault? I didn't read that.
Also emotional stress is not being selfish... not having such strains would be, well, cold.
Where did he accept any responsibility for the failure in his statement.?
And don't reply with, ohh he said the buch stops here. He shot his mouth off with SPECIFICS blaming other ppl.
Leaders should lead period. The guy didnt even lose money, there are people out jobs that came to Sigil for HIM. Because of his reputation and he wasn't even there at the end ?
Its horrible. Read between the lines, its clear what a self consumed wacko the guy is.
Ya, just f'ing perfect. You mean the company that has invested $30 mil in your crappy game actually wants you to set milestones and timelines? You mean they wanted you to try and wrap something up that had been in development for years? You mean they wanted you to stop running your company like a grade-school art project and run it like a business??
This guy is just priceless. The only people who still support anything he says are people who have not worked in the real world. Do you think my company would just allow me to work, doing whatever the h*ll I wanted, and then say, "oh that technology didn't work, we are going to try a new one?" This whole thing is absurd. The game sux. This guy is retarded and is someone who should never have been in charge of a company as he has no idea how the real business world is run.
Microsoft, I applaud you. Sometimes you got to "know when to hold em.......know when to walk away.......know when to run."
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid
It amazes me people can in anyway still support Brad and his never ending flow of bull.
A real CEO would have done the following:
1. Realized early on that MS was not in it for the long haul
2. Made alternate plans to scale back the creativity and get something out and working
3. HIred his own QA staff. The fact they had 1 QA person, before MS was done with the project is a joke in itself. His blame of Microsoft for everything is BS.
4. Not sold the farm to SOE.
They never should have been in that situation in the first place. A real leader finds solutions, doesnt just give up and go home and cry in tears over failure. Real leaders find a way through the tough times.
What strikes me the most in this interview is that it really seems he, as the boss of the company, had no idea of what was going on! Not the slightest idea of how to lead the work or the company as a whole! Still I pretty much share Brads vision of what an MMORPG could and maybe should be, but it is quite clear that while he may have a good vision he should find himself someone who can actually lead a company and a dev. team. Even if I have the feeling he really had his chance with VG, if I was a venture capitalist I would sure think twice before giving him money for a project.
I don't know if it's Brad's vision or not but I also think that a game with a bit more challenge and a seemless living breathing world with no boundaries could succeed. It may not be as massive in subscribers as WOW but if done right it would draw alot of people in and someone would make bank.
The problem with the whole sandbox idea is that generally no one seems capable of saying this is how much we can build and fill with quality content. Instead they do a SWG or a Dark and Light or a Vanguard and have mass empty spaces, long travel times and unending time sinks of mass variety not to mention tons of bugs and unfinished content. When they can fill a sandbox MMORPG with as much content as Oblivion but on a MMORPG scale then the millions will come and stay.
You need the idea guys but they can't be running the show. Somebody has to be the whip cracker and the deadline maker. This person is obviously not Brad. I still find it hilarious that he made it sound like Microsoft was cool the first three years when Sigil we're whizzing away money but then when they started asking for results he made it sound like their focus changed. Their focus didn't change. The Xbox 360 didn't take away the 35 million dollars or the five year period they gave you to create something. Other companies are proving you can make a great game for a lot less the this.
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW...
Of course they did. It's Microsoft, for fuck's sake. What do you think they wanted? A game to compete with Kingdom of Loathing? They looked at World of Warcraft flying off the shelves and wanted a piece of that action. Why wouldn't they?
Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard...
What you don't seem to get is that Microsoft is a company that will throw metric assloads of money at something if they think it's worth funding. Neither the XBox nor the XBox 360 have made a profit yet. They lose hundreds of dollars on each unit sold. Yet they keep funding it, and they keep going, hammer and tongs, into the console market because someone at Microsoft convinced Gates & the rest of the board that it was worth it. That's how MS operates, in a nutshell.
If Sigil had been producing a game that was shaping up to be that elusive WoW-killer, or at least competetive with it, you can bet that they'd have thrown as much money as needed towards it. They could easily have outspent Blizzard if the game had been there all along.
For Microsoft to pull the rug out of the game, and to concentrate on Zoo Tycoon instead shows just what they thought of what they were seeing. They wouldn't have done something like that without a damn good reason.
You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore...
How much did Turbine spend on LOTR Online? Anyone know? I'm pretty sure it was less than what Sigil spent on VG, and that game is now flying off the shelves. Why? Because they polished it, they had a plan of attack for what they were going to do, and they worked hard to get the game right.
I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
With the inept, incompetent management they had? It would have been about the same, but a much bigger financial failure.
Vanguard failed, not because of Blizzard having more money, but because Sigil was run by a bunch of clueless, incompetent people who were totally in over their heads.
wow..I love f13 they utterly and completely spanked Brad. No sugar coating that interview. Brad was home and he was afraid he'll cry...that's why he got someone that no one basically knew to fire them in the parking lot. What a piece of sh*t
Yes I agree. He was the boss and it was his company, so what if he had cried and cried all day long. That is as it should be and would only have proved to the employees that he actually cared, very poor excuse for not being there.
Pffft... not good enough. There is no excuse. Seppuku is the only option for him now.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Comments
What's that? Never heard of it.
If the game had been a resounding financial success, this thread wouldn't exist.
Witch hunt? The guy had $30+ million to spend, the backing of Microsoft, and 4+ years to develop his game. Had Sigil actually had some discipline in running the show, with those nasty schedules and deadlines that Brad seems to hate so much, they might have done two things:
1. Put out a much better, more focused game, since, you know, businesses run much more smoothly when you have a freaking plan,
and
2. If Microsoft had seen results that they felt were on the right track, SOE would never have entered the picture at all. MS is a company that will fund something, regardless of any potential losses, if they feel it is worthwhile. Just look at their consoles-- they're losing hundreds of dollars on each one sold and they don't care, because they believe in them that strongly. Had Vanguard been developed properly, with real progress, real direction and clarity, and a stable operation, then MS probably would have kept them on.
Instead, what did Microsoft get for their time and money? A company that was so disorganized and poorly run that the second in command was openly nailing the marketing director while his wife was in the same office. They got a CEO who's apparently a eunuch, since he lacked the balls to be a real leader when it counted, like when it came to maintaining a production schedule for his game, or hiring and firing people, and who doesn't even have the decency to show up when half his employees are laid off in a freaking parking lot because he might cry. WTF?
The fact that Sigil managed to release a game at all, given the chaos and total mismanagement that clearly plagued them, is a fucking miracle. And Brad McQuaid has done the one thing that I didn't believe possible-- he made Smed and the rest of SOE look even better by all of this than they did before.
If anything, SOE should be given Good Samaritan awards for taking on this project and trying to turn it around. Clearly, Sigil weren't up to the task because their leaders were either screwing around or too weak and spineless to take a stand on anything.
Very well said espeically about SOE! I would have to say, folks, that this about summarizes the state of affairs for the entire time Sigil was under the "wings" of Microsoft.
As alluded to in another post, this seems to be a frightening trend for many of the current MMO's in devlopment.
Poor management
Misguided/misdirected leadership
Wasted time
Wasted money
Stress
Way too much hype
Unattainable/unrealistic expectations
Pressure to release a product make the quick "buck" $$$
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
Yeah! It was such a joy for people to work 16-20 hours a day for the last year and a half to come up with a game when they'd had 4+ years and $30+ million to spend doing it. Oh, and that game ended up being released "early" because they ran out of time and money, when the reality is, if they'd had a goddamn plan from the start, they would have been in much better shape.
And I'm sure it was a joy to work in a place where management was clearly out of their depths, clueless, and grossly incompetent, and who'd get pissy when Microsoft, who was paying for the damned thing in the first place, started asking questions. Let's not forget the company President nailing the Marketing Director while his soon to be ex-wife was employed at the same company. I'm sure that was a barrel of laughs too.
What on earth was I thinking? Clearly it was Shangri-La instead of a nightmare of incompetence, nepotism, and gross mismanagement.
I suppose that's true. Half of them walked away without a job, and on their way to the unemployment office. I'm sure that counts for something. And they had the experience of being fired in a parking lot while their CEO was curled up somewhere afraid to face them because he'd cry. I'm sure that makes for great conversation around the dinner table.
Amris?
About that last bit, even had the game been a resounding financial success the dev team would have been reduced after launch so let's not pretend jobs in this industry are "jobs for life," eh?
You have no clue what your talking about there Kari. If the game had been successful they would of kept the staff they felt was good to maintain/expand the game And to began a new project. It's standard to rotate employees in this way in the industry. Brad had even mentioned that there was an intent for sigil to workl on future products.Yeah! It was such a joy for people to work 16-20 hours a day for the last year and a half to come up with a game when they'd had 4+ years and $30+ million to spend doing it. Oh, and that game ended up being released "early" because they ran out of time and money, when the reality is, if they'd had a goddamn plan from the start, they would have been in much better shape.
And I'm sure it was a joy to work in a place where management was clearly out of their depths, clueless, and grossly incompetent, and who'd get pissy when Microsoft, who was paying for the damned thing in the first place, started asking questions. Let's not forget the company President nailing the Marketing Director while his soon to be ex-wife was employed at the same company. I'm sure that was a barrel of laughs too.
What on earth was I thinking? Clearly it was Shangri-La instead of a nightmare of incompetence, nepotism, and gross mismanagement.
I suppose that's true. Half of them walked away without a job, and on their way to the unemployment office. I'm sure that counts for something. And they had the experience of being fired in a parking lot while their CEO was curled up somewhere afraid to face them because he'd cry. I'm sure that makes for great conversation around the dinner table.
Amris?
About that last bit, even had the game been a resounding financial success the dev team would have been reduced after launch so let's not pretend jobs in this industry are "jobs for life," eh?
Let's not confuse Vanguard's "development team" with Sigil's entire staff, even though you could considering that was the situation at the time. As you can see in the interview though, Sigil was already entertaining the idea of a second product outside of the initial Vanguard, which may or may not have been Vanguard's first expansion which needs to be considered as well. Point being, Sigil would've grew had Vanguard been successful, not shrunk.You're right about no one's job being a job for life, but why go out on a limb to try and normalize nearly an entire company being fired in a parking lot by a guy they barely knew?
Yeah! It was such a joy for people to work 16-20 hours a day for the last year and a half to come up with a game when they'd had 4+ years and $30+ million to spend doing it. Oh, and that game ended up being released "early" because they ran out of time and money, when the reality is, if they'd had a goddamn plan from the start, they would have been in much better shape.
And I'm sure it was a joy to work in a place where management was clearly out of their depths, clueless, and grossly incompetent, and who'd get pissy when Microsoft, who was paying for the damned thing in the first place, started asking questions. Let's not forget the company President nailing the Marketing Director while his soon to be ex-wife was employed at the same company. I'm sure that was a barrel of laughs too.
What on earth was I thinking? Clearly it was Shangri-La instead of a nightmare of incompetence, nepotism, and gross mismanagement.
I suppose that's true. Half of them walked away without a job, and on their way to the unemployment office. I'm sure that counts for something. And they had the experience of being fired in a parking lot while their CEO was curled up somewhere afraid to face them because he'd cry. I'm sure that makes for great conversation around the dinner table.
Amris?
About that last bit, even had the game been a resounding financial success the dev team would have been reduced after launch so let's not pretend jobs in this industry are "jobs for life," eh?
Let's not confuse Vanguard's "development team" with Sigil's entire staff, even though you could considering that was the situation at the time. As you can see in the interview though, Sigil was already entertaining the idea of a second product outside of the initial Vanguard, which may or may not have been Vanguard's first expansion which needs to be considered as well. Point being, Sigil would've grew had Vanguard been successful, not shrunk.You're right about no one's job being a job for life, but why go out on a limb to try and normalize nearly an entire company being fired in a parking lot by a guy they barely knew?
I'll say this it is pretty standard in the comp. industry to fire people without any notice and have them leave the workplace immediately because it is so easy to sabbatoge something in the programming/intellectual design industries.
I do respect that Brad did actually front up to the net at least, it would have been all too easy for him to say "you need to talk to SOE now" and leave it at that. But he didn't. Overall, there are some really good things in Vanguard; while I expect SOE will successfully kill the game anyway there were clearly some good people in Sigil, and they are now free to move onwards and upwards to better funded projects. Maybe WoW2?
Actually the proper term for this is "cowardice".
I had hopes for this game when it was first announced, but it fairly quickly became clear that it would not be a casual game. It was clear to me anyway, that Brad was out of touch with the gaming comunnity, so I gave up on it.
Reading this interview, it is like watching a train wreck. You know it is bad, you know a lot of people are getting hurt, but you just can't turn away....
Good luck to those who were fired, it is a crying shame you didn't have more mature leadership in your company.
Does it scare you that men are passionate and have feelings?
Maybe you should go to concrete land where we're all robots and women are just meat?
Seriously for the topic though: I fully respect him for that, Brad's been burning for his game so hard and just had it shattered. God I love passion in games
Real passion would be to have enough of a bond with those people to have cried and still given a speech and thanking them. Running away is cowardice. BMQ has been running for so long he thinks everyone else is moving and he is standing still.Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
Blizzard also made an entire suite of very good development tools before they even started making content, Sigil had bupkiss. Blizzard is just far more professional, no amount of money could make Sigil competitive with Blizzard.Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
It would have been the same but he would have squandered $80 million instead of $30 million. Plus maybe they would have had more beer bashes or something. If Sigil had the budget of the US Government to make a game they would have failed. It would have just been a bigger failure.Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
It would have been the same but he would have squandered $80 million instead of $30 million. Plus maybe they would have had more beer bashes or something. If Sigil had the budget of the US Government to make a game they would have failed. It would have just been a bigger failure.Yes, as explained microsoft dropped sigil not because they wouldn't invest more money, but they were unwilling to invest more money when there wasn't anything to show for the 30 million they had already dropped on Vanguard.
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
It would have been the same but he would have squandered $80 million instead of $30 million. Plus maybe they would have had more beer bashes or something. If Sigil had the budget of the US Government to make a game they would have failed. It would have just been a bigger failure.Yes, as explained microsoft dropped sigil not because they wouldn't invest more money, but they were unwilling to invest more money when there wasn't anything to show for the 30 million they had already dropped on Vanguard.
Yep. It's not like anyone would drop a quarter into a drink machine, the display not increment, and then decide to keep dropping quarters in anyway.No one can say just how far Microsoft would have gone if they were happy with Sigil's progress with Vanguard, so that's not worth arguing over. Someone could try arguing over whether Microsoft's decision on Sigil's worth was accurate though, but considering Vanguard's current state and the fate of the company...
The War Czar for the Bush Administration. Karl Rove said Brad was a genius at mismanaging clusterf$#*s.
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
wow..I love f13
they utterly and completely spanked Brad. No sugar coating that interview.
Brad was home and he was afraid he'll cry...that's why he got someone that no one basically knew to fire them in the parking lot.
What a piece of sh*t
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
WTF
it's Sigil..not SOE. ROFLMAO. Damn...some people...
People who have to create conspiracy and hate threads to further a cause lacks in intellectual comprehension of diversity.
What strikes me the most in this interview is that it really seems he, as the boss of the company, had no idea of what was going on! Not the slightest idea of how to lead the work or the company as a whole!
Still I pretty much share Brads vision of what an MMORPG could and maybe should be, but it is quite clear that while he may have a good vision he should find himself someone who can actually lead a company and a dev. team. Even if I have the feeling he really had his chance with VG, if I was a venture capitalist I would sure think twice before giving him money for a project.
Also emotional stress is not being selfish... not having such strains would be, well, cold.
Where did he accept any responsibility for the failure in his statement.?
And don't reply with, ohh he said the buch stops here. He shot his mouth off with SPECIFICS blaming other ppl.
Leaders should lead period. The guy didnt even lose money, there are people out jobs that came to Sigil for HIM. Because of his reputation and he wasn't even there at the end ?
Its horrible. Read between the lines, its clear what a self consumed wacko the guy is.
-Allegria
Did you read the entire article??
Microsoft wanted him to make a AAA MMO to compete with WOW... Blizzard spent 80 million making WOW, Sigil was suppose to get the financing to take on WOW and halfway through it Microsoft pulled the rug from under there feet and decided to spend there time and money pushing out the Xbox 360 instead of Vanguard... You guys keep saying 30 million like its a lot of money, its not in the gaming industry anymore... Again Blizzard spent 80 million on WOW,... I wonder what Vanguard would of been like if they spent 80 million on it...
Keep drinking the Kool-Aid
It amazes me people can in anyway still support Brad and his never ending flow of bull.
A real CEO would have done the following:
1. Realized early on that MS was not in it for the long haul
2. Made alternate plans to scale back the creativity and get something out and working
3. HIred his own QA staff. The fact they had 1 QA person, before MS was done with the project is a joke in itself. His blame of Microsoft for everything is BS.
4. Not sold the farm to SOE.
They never should have been in that situation in the first place. A real leader finds solutions, doesnt just give up and go home and cry in tears over failure. Real leaders find a way through the tough times.
-Allegria
I don't know if it's Brad's vision or not but I also think that a game with a bit more challenge and a seemless living breathing world with no boundaries could succeed. It may not be as massive in subscribers as WOW but if done right it would draw alot of people in and someone would make bank.
The problem with the whole sandbox idea is that generally no one seems capable of saying this is how much we can build and fill with quality content. Instead they do a SWG or a Dark and Light or a Vanguard and have mass empty spaces, long travel times and unending time sinks of mass variety not to mention tons of bugs and unfinished content. When they can fill a sandbox MMORPG with as much content as Oblivion but on a MMORPG scale then the millions will come and stay.
You need the idea guys but they can't be running the show. Somebody has to be the whip cracker and the deadline maker. This person is obviously not Brad. I still find it hilarious that he made it sound like Microsoft was cool the first three years when Sigil we're whizzing away money but then when they started asking for results he made it sound like their focus changed. Their focus didn't change. The Xbox 360 didn't take away the 35 million dollars or the five year period they gave you to create something. Other companies are proving you can make a great game for a lot less the this.
Yes.
Of course they did. It's Microsoft, for fuck's sake. What do you think they wanted? A game to compete with Kingdom of Loathing? They looked at World of Warcraft flying off the shelves and wanted a piece of that action. Why wouldn't they?
What you don't seem to get is that Microsoft is a company that will throw metric assloads of money at something if they think it's worth funding. Neither the XBox nor the XBox 360 have made a profit yet. They lose hundreds of dollars on each unit sold. Yet they keep funding it, and they keep going, hammer and tongs, into the console market because someone at Microsoft convinced Gates & the rest of the board that it was worth it. That's how MS operates, in a nutshell.
If Sigil had been producing a game that was shaping up to be that elusive WoW-killer, or at least competetive with it, you can bet that they'd have thrown as much money as needed towards it. They could easily have outspent Blizzard if the game had been there all along.
For Microsoft to pull the rug out of the game, and to concentrate on Zoo Tycoon instead shows just what they thought of what they were seeing. They wouldn't have done something like that without a damn good reason.
How much did Turbine spend on LOTR Online? Anyone know? I'm pretty sure it was less than what Sigil spent on VG, and that game is now flying off the shelves. Why? Because they polished it, they had a plan of attack for what they were going to do, and they worked hard to get the game right.
With the inept, incompetent management they had? It would have been about the same, but a much bigger financial failure.
Vanguard failed, not because of Blizzard having more money, but because Sigil was run by a bunch of clueless, incompetent people who were totally in over their heads.
Pffft... not good enough. There is no excuse. Seppuku is the only option for him now.
I'm a big ol' fluffy carewolf. Be afraid. Be very afraid.