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I just don't see it.
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Didnt you love it when a full guild from EQ or another pve game would transfer into your daoc server and then try to compete on a top level, only to be sent packing months (and sometimes weeks) later and head back to killing computer controled monsters in their old game again.... ahh the glory days.
Conversely, I look at some of the better 8v8 teams from daoc and they have not done as well in wow and VSoH
This isn't Daoc2,Daoc had stealth,true support and speed classes,2 enemies not one,8man roaming teams.
WAR has gimp support,6 man teams,1 enemy,instanced rvr,no steatlh,cc,or speed.WAR is a game for the player who got killed twice by a stealther,cried and quit.Or for the disorganized players who couldn't get in a good group,now they can zerg and don't even need a zerg leader.
Hopefully after this is realesed they will go to work on DAoC2,because this certainly isn't it.
It wouldn't be DAoC 2 if it was a carbon copy of DAoC 1 but with better graphics.
WAR is a game for a player that has a life and doesn't have 7 loser friends that will play with them 10+ hours a day on the perfect combo of classes.
I'm so sorry you wont be able to speed up to people, mezz them, and gank them...realy i am
Guess you'll have to keep getting your epeen fix in DAoC while we enjoy WAR.
Ill give mythic one thing, they are a company and a dev team that learns from its mistakes fast and will admit they make them.
Imagine if they made a DAoC2? Not even a "spiritual successor" I am talkin about an actual part 2.
You can even not use most of the classes, just for the sake of balance and with balance as the main focus come out with 3 realms of midgard Hibernia and Albion. Stick with the ethos that each realm had (mid = melee hib =nature Alb =magic)
you can even scrap most of the classes and change around all of the abilities, use the same engine and new maps that have the same zone names. The game would be killer. I would play! spice things up and you can even add a 4th realm. Atlantis! You could have atlantis as a melee defensive realm as opposite to midgards melee might realm and albion hibernia with Offensive magic against defensive Nature healing. 4 way chaotic realm vs realm warfare would be great....
one can only dream
OMG QFT
I just wish people would shut up about WoW, besides the movement in the game, it pretty much sucked.... If you liked WoW, this game probably is not for you...
WoW = PVE
There is no true PVP in WoW, enjoy playing capture the flag much?
anyways, back to the topic... I would like to just be the max level and have the same ol same ol gear and just go kill people all day ^^. to hell with raiding. pve is the lame.
I don't know, everyone here has a valid point (negative and positive), I can say that money influences all and being that the PvP crowd is the most vocal, but the smallest community, I am willing to bet my membership on this forum that the game will not be even 80% PvP based (eventhough I have been reading that on the official forums).
In the minds of all developers and companies (including Mythic) "if it don't make dollas then it don't make sense".
I remember when DDO was up and coming and people talked about how the game would be the end all to hack and slash games(even the reviewers put out this info and hype), the same with Vanguard, EQ2..I can go on and on, but here we are looking for that official PvP/PvE MMO fix again/sighs.
Neither DDO or Vanguard had a dev team which created a game that was as large of a success as dark age of camelot.
most people you speak to will play war based off of what they liked in daoc or love of Warhammer lore.... with perhaps a minor few who want to play the game having no love for either of the two and just want to hop on a pvp/rvr based game that dosent make you grind and raid.
I have so much faith in mythic as a creator of games I have 1 share of stock in EAmythic on NASDAQ
got in at $41.82 for the share, and its now $47.87
Hehe. Do you really?
When I played Everquest a lot I bought many shares of SNE. The stock tanked, I sold it for a loss, and now it is up again. I just checked and it was around what I paid for years ago.
I could not pick a stock to save my life.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well, I usually Don't post, at all(obvious by my post count). I've been reading these forums for a long time and I dearly love this website. It takes a lot to push me out of my little hole to post but I really felt the need this time.
Gonodil, please grow up. You are one of the biggest "Fanboys" I have seen on these forums in awhile and you are full of nothing but hate and spite for anyone with an opinion opposite of yours. I beg of you to stop tarnishing Warhammer with your belittlement and lack of self respect for others. You are the type of person who drives gamers away from Warhammer, not attract.
I used to have a very jaded opinion on warhammer and I honestly did not like it. I have read a lot more on it and I really am looking forward to picking it up, along with AoC and a few other MMO's. Do I think Warhammer will be the best mmo out ? Doubtful, But I do believe it will be the best mmo in targetted catagory.
Age of Conan and Warhammer are vastly different and it's hard to even compare the two at this point, so why try? There will always be opnions on which will be better and as others have said it's far to early to even guess. I really do hope both do extremely well and I believe both will.
So, does that make me a AoC fanboy, Gonodil? Are you going to flame me and show your true colors some more for saying I think AoC will be sucessful? Please, grow up and learn to appreciate the work developers put into these video games, even if you hate that specific game in question. Warhammer looks great, most likely will be great but there are a lot of games coming in the next year that will be just as good, if not better.
~ ~
Had I the heavens' embroidered cloths, Enwrought with golden and silver light, The blue and the dim and the dark cloths Of night and light and the half light, I would spread the cloths under your feet: But I, being poor, have only my dreams; I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.
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As far as the "success" of daoc compared to EQ. Lets look at profit.
If you put a ten dollars into sony prior to Everquest and sold it at the height of the game you would have made 150 dollars.
If youput $10 into Mythic prior to DAoC and sold it at its height you would have made $20,032 !!!!!!!! (+2016.00%)
Your talking about a game where nobody knew the company, nobody really knew anything about 2 of the 3 realms nor had an intrest in playing them, and no prior fanbase. Can you even find me an Ad for DAoC? Can you name the mascot or the cover for DAoCs advertising campaign (like that elven chick with the staff plastered all over the place from EQ) because I sure cant. You pretty much had to hear about daoc by word of mouth or via someone posting about it on the internet on a forum. EQ was able to capture all of us people who loved sony, or all of us who where teenagers when we started playing neverwinternights on AOL as they rolled the muds into a 3d EQ. You could find ads all over the place.
Same thing with world of warcraft. its not that you had the great game that nobody knew about, you had a fanbase of 30 million from the battlenet servers that you could constantly dump advertising to for the promotion of your game and the success of prior games. I have seen wow in magazine ads, computer banners, posters in game shops, even TV shows. you never saw that with daoc.
Now why did I go on that long tangent? to inform you thats why. Mythic started as a few people in a rented office building. to compare the sucess of EQ and Sony to Mythic and DAoC to me you may as well compare Paris Hilton to "50 Cent". now who has come further in life with what they started out with? would we even know who Paris was if she was Paris Shimsky from a middle class family in Clifton New Jersey?
I wrote an "editorialised email" about 3 years ago about the death of daoc, I think it was called "the rise and demise of camelot."
It is my opinion from having lived in the era that the community and word of mouth killed dark age of camelot, and it is not the result of the content of the game nor the development team itself directly.
If there had been no "vnboards" and no harsh editorialist like myself and people just loged on every day and played, the game would still have 100,000 players in the US.
Dont brush me off yet, just think about it...... let it sink in and hear me out with an open mind before you refute.
* Most people you ask "why did you leave daoc" they will say 3 things. "I didnt like going on the 2 hour long 16-24 man raids to get new abilities from ToA" "I didnt like ToA artifacts, they where too powerful and ruined the game" or "New Frontiers, I dont like attacking keeps/there is not enough room to run around and roam free looking for pvp"
Now look at the most widespread and popular mmorpg of all time. World of warcraft. What was the main feature the first year of warcraft? Large 40 man raids and powerful epic items. People hated 16 man master levels in daoc (16 people was 2 groups) but its fun and exciting in wow to raid Molten core in WoW with 40 people (in wow 40 people is 8 groups) whats more, molten core had to be run 10-30 times to finish it, each of the initial runs would take 3-5 hours .then you moved on to the next hardest instance which would lead to hours and hours of gameplay, in contrast master levels in daoc took 1-4 hours to run and once you where done.... you where done time to go back and RvR!
Epics in WoW would at times be double the damage, DPS , and stat points while gaining special procs and effects for using them. I still remember walking around with my arcanite reaper and getting 3 shot by another warrior using ashkandi. In contrast Artifacts in DAoC, the best Weapon (Battler) had the same dps (16.5) as the crafted weapon you could find off monsters (16.5) and also the best crafted weapon that every crafter could make using supplies bought at any cities NPC vendors Arastite Claymore (16.5). You also had a stat cap in the game which pretty much penalized people who used too many artifacts as artifacts had no stats on them, only the damage and special powers... WoW epics have the damage, special effects, stats and actually reward you when you get a full set even further.
So wow epics are vastly more powerful than daoc Artifacts, and WoWs raids take almost a full years worth of time to totally finish compared to 10 master levels of DAoC, but we as a community claim daoc was ruined by weapons and raids yet run to wow and say the same things are great and legendary
It was at that time, with people still upset about artifacts, and master levels that they changed the map, thus adding new content. Now, we all did RvR in emain macha for 3 years.( New Frontiers release, June 22, 2004) people claimed that they hated the changes and that was the straw that broke the camels back as we all flamed the message boards and then left in mass. Seeing people leave and the servers now wastelands, most people left the "dying" game thus causing the cave in and eventual decline of daoc. So people got upset about new content in pvp...... but you have wow which has had 4 battlegrounds come out in the past year and people still wanting more. It was bad for daoc to do it, but the same thing is good for WoW
If you actually went back and played DAoC now, its stil a superior game. Its very old yet its graphics and sound are actually higher on my scale than World of Warcraft. There is less little to no timesink at all in playing and twinking out your toon, and they have changed every mistake they made with new frontiers expansion, adding more space, taking away towers, creating an island in the middle of the ocean for groups to roam and battle eachother. The new frontiers expansion seemed like it changed the game at first, but after you adjusted to it, you found that you could still play the same game and the same playstyle, only it was a new map with features that balanced it for all 3 sides. Once again, mythic made changes, listened to the fanbase and changed what they had done to suit their costumer base, only problem was, that this time we had already made up our minds as a collective and left the game never to return.
If I told you, that you could go back to daoc today, and have a top level competitive charachter within 6 weeks, and that all of the things that drove you away from the game have been changed with every class rebalanced and upgraded..... would you go back and play it? if not.... why? i has no real answer for sanya when she asked the same question to me.
.
OK that was my rant. To sum it up for all you guys who have ADD and dont like "omg wall of text"
*we killed daoc, the devs didnt
*the things we claimed ruined daoc are all the main features of wow
-Hasani-
Neither DDO or Vanguard had a dev team which created a game that was as large of a success as dark age of camelot.
most people you speak to will play war based off of what they liked in daoc or love of Warhammer lore.... with perhaps a minor few who want to play the game having no love for either of the two and just want to hop on a pvp/rvr based game that dosent make you grind and raid.
Usually I agree with a lot you have to say when I'm reading through this forum, but on this I just can't. The perception, or more correctly the wishful thinking of some, that most of the people that will try WAR will be people that played and loved DAoC, or know and love Warhammer, is way off base imo.
The vast majority of people that try this game out will have neither played DAoC, nor know much of anything about the Warhammer IP. Of those that did play DAoC, only a certain percentage of them will be people that mostly PvPed. Yes PvP was a big part of DAoC, but remember that there was still a lot of PvE, and many many people preferred that, despite what many "revisionist game historians" would have people believe now.
I would hazard a guess that if EAMythic hasn't already started looking at adding more PvE content, they soon will be. There simply isn't a large enough PvP only crowd to carry a major MMO. Not major as it will be defined now that is. It wasn't a PvP only crowd that carried DAoC for that matter either. It only sustained it on a much smaller scale after the release of WoW really. That person was right about the one preference seeming to yap the loudest, but really not being that large a group imo.
I believe the desires of TPTB for this game's scope have changed a bit. No longer, as they were saying @ a year ago, will they be satisfied with just carving out a niche and sustaining the game while making a smaller profit. This game is looking to play with the big boy now I think. Not to kill the big boy, but I think the goal now is to have this game stand next to it and be perceived as legitimate competition. Something that no game can do atm. To do that they have to look at sub numbers a lot bigger than @500k, and to get the big numbers you have to appeal to people that enjoy both PvP and PvE, and to people that just enjoy each style exclusively.
They can do it easily enough too, and not change the PvP content planned for the game at all. They don't even need to change the zone layouts. Just add some more raid content throughout the zones, but mainly in the tier 3 and 4 zones. It's been made clear that gear is going to be pretty much equal for each style, so if they did do it there's no pissing off the PvP only crowd either. Best to do it now as opposed to scrambling to add it after release when the realization sets in that the perception of it being a PvP centric game is holding it back. In today's market, with so much competition now and planned, best get it right from the get go.
Those that stomp their feet, gnash their teeth, and yell "NO MORE PvE!" really need to sit and calm down. If they did it in such a way as not to effect the PvP content already planned, there's no reason at all to care. The more people playing the game the better. More people = more profit. More profit = better support and bigger, better, and quicker released expansions (not to mention it keeps EA off their backs, if you get my drift).
I'd like to know where you made up those numbers from...
EQ has had a larger subscriber base, for a longer period of time, and has sold MANY more expansions that DAoC has.
Also EQ wasn't "well known" when it launched. Hell, sony didn't even own it 100% at the time! And I never saw any ads for EQ in 1999...I only found out about it after watching a friend play it on his computer.
You seriously need to stop talking out of your ass, it's getting pretty pathetic. That includes your commenting on the current state of DAoC, even though you admited to not playing it in over 2 years.
I mean, crap, I play DAoC right now and find your blind fanboyism quite sad.
Personally I think that you're basing your "theories" on some false perceptions. There's a lot of people out there that either liked the ToA expansion, which always seems to get shouted over so no one hears that, or had quit DAoC because there wasn't enough PvE content when they quit, and never bothered going back when they finally added some. The people that "hated' the content of ToA were mostly the people that were left after the exodus, so to speak, and of course a lot of them hated it. No duh. The players that were left in the game at the time were primarily fans of a completely different style of play.The thing that was the matter with that expansion was that it came out too late, that's it imo.
People liked WoW's content simply because people liked it, and if DAoC had managed to get that kind of content in the game a lot earlier I think we'd be telling a much different story about the game now. I think they'd have certainly lost out to WoW anyway simply because of the polish of that game, but the "end, if you want to call it that (the game is still alive don't forget), wouldn't have been so abrupt I don't think.
The bitching and moaning that came out of the sub base that was left in DAoC when ToA was released, although loud and obnoxious, really isn't indicative of very much. Since, as I said already, of course those PvP enthusiasts that had stayed in the game didn't like the PvE content.
Im glad you agree with me most of the time andI am glad you read the forums
A question I want to ask you, where are all the daoc gamers going to be if they dont come back to play war?
Where are all of the warhammer fans going to be if they dont play war?
Where will all the PvP fans be if they dont play war?
I do not understand, I may have not gotten your message clear enough, but it seems like you are saying people who like mythic, like daoc, like pvp and like warhammer will only make a very small % of the people who play war.
Thats the "target audiance" incase you didnt know, but if they miss their target audiance and draw in some type of other crowd I wonder what type of gamer you think their approach is going to land them.... do tell
I, and i think MANY others, didn't mind the PvE....what we hated was the unbelievably overpowering abilities and equipment added by the expansion.
It turned every fight into a giant charged item click fest, and the increased DPS from those items ment that most fights were over in seconds.
Which is why ToA servers aren't recovering after ToA raids were made easier....yeah, you can get the gear much faster now, but that still doesn't change how said gear ruins RvR.