BC ruined WoW?

cracker6

just wanted to see how many people think the expansion made WoW worse, for me it did.

butters88

yes it did...no questions asked

superguyver

I dont see how it has ruined WoW

Kyleran

specifically, it invalidated the tier two/three gear I'd worked so hard to get, destroyed any need to run 40 man raid dungeons which meant I never was to experience Naxx, added tons of new faction grinds, a part of WOW that  I absolutely hated (along with the need to build countless resistance armor sets), changed the PVP system (OK, I actually felt these were improvements) and basically shredded two raiding guilds that I was a member of as they had to downsize to deal with the smaller instances (Kara specifically)

stabemz

i said yes, i think BC ruined WoW by alot. i just dont get the feeling to play WoW anymore, its just the same old shit and it doesnt feel right to be lvl 70 not that much ganking anymore... i think they should add more content. imo they shouldnt have raised the lvl cap they should have just added a shit more of content

LuRavi

 

Kyleran do you think the expansion would have saved either of your guilds if BC had released with 25 man raids from day one instead of waiting what 3 months till the next part of the expansion was realeased in an update?

For myself TBC was ruined because I rolled new char day 1 on TBC release day on Coilfang, I rolled Alliance and because Blizzard did notthing to control the horde to alliance population imbalance, Coilfang died as a viable server with a viable Alliance population, same with the other servers released on TBC release day.

I won't quote warcraft realms data beacuse its not perfectly exact, but there are claims that there are more Blood Elves on Coilfang than all the rest of the horde and rest of every alliance put together. Claims of 4 horde for everyone 1 alliance or 7 horde for every one 1 alliance, I do not know which is right I do know Blizzard got a lot of money by people who transffered off Coilfang Alliance and horde alike.

The entire battlegroup was destroyed by same thing to many horde not enough alliance queing, Blizzard never fixed Battlegrounds to change/fix the 15 of one side to the 5,7,10 people of the other side and making it automatic who wins no debate for Arathi Basin, or 10 WSG and 3-7 of the other side.

Just liked Blizzard never fixed Alterac Valley when they removed every NPC, there was no contest to AV anymore it was simply a race to kill the other boss, no staging areas of tug and war, no 8hour or 15 hour AVs anymore. Blizzard simply believed it was time for everyone to move onto Arenas, oh wait only those that are lvl 70 can do arenas.

I am onemore person who never experienced Naxx, and I dearly wish I had.

Oh for me the kicker on Coilfang, neither the Alliance or Horde opened up old raiding grounds AQ, so when the server opens for transfers onto the server in July someone else can transfer on with their blood of noz reputation already and complete the Sceptre Quest chain and open up AQ it won't be anyone who was homegrown upon Coilfang and for me as integrity of the server it becomes simply ruined that someone not homegrown can do that.

To me these are examples that Blizzard is like in fire and forget mode, these items I have listed are all things that should have continued to be worked on but they weren't it simply was old outdated by what Blizzard has done.

Originally posted by Kyleran

specifically, it invalidated the tier two/three gear I'd worked so hard to get, destroyed any need to run 40 man raid dungeons which meant I never was to experience Naxx, added tons of new faction grinds, a part of WOW that  I absolutely hated (along with the need to build countless resistance armor sets), changed the PVP system (OK, I actually felt these were improvements) and basically shredded two raiding guilds that I was a member of as they had to downsize to deal with the smaller instances (Kara specifically)

jonaylward

I'm not a fast leveller... I started playing in June of '06, and hit 60 the week before TBC came out.



It's now June '07, and I'm only level 66...though I have a 33 Draenei, and several characters in their 20's...



WoW Lost it's lustre for me when I was bored questing in Zangarmarsh, and switched to my Tauren Druid in Ashenvale...and realized that you could swap the mobs (keep the levels, change the names and models and abilities), and I don't think anyone would really notice...and if they did, they wouldn't care.



Outland should have been "special"...it's not. It's 10 more (LONG) levels of the exact same thing I've been doing for a year.



So, I'm playing Neverwinter Nights 2 (Single Player Campaign) and dorking around with Second Life again a littel (I had an account when it was "small", back in 2003...), while I wait for Pirates of the Burning Sea.

Snowywhite

Yes the wow expansion killed the game for me, it was nice to lvl again but for some reason the expansion made me loose my interest in the game. about 1 month afterwards I just stopped playing and moved to another mmorpg.

 

Trevorion

In my opinion its a good upgrade.  It surely did kill raiders, but there is so much to do with so many factions.  Ok it is repetitive but ONLY for you people out there who only play to level and pwn and are not interested in actually living in an MMO and enjoy the world in a real community.  Most of you who said NO, I am sorry to say I have a feeling you are game winners but MMO social loosers.  If you are not part of a good community the inevitable is clear - BOREDOM. Our guild has learnt from the WoW experience, we are taking TBC really slow and enjoying and celebrating every single bit of new equipment one of us manages to get.  And hey with all the new quest opportunities giving decent gold, leveling up alts has become really fun.

One word of advice people and this does not regard WoW but any MMO:

THERE ARE ALWAYS TO FACES TO A COIN - ENJOY THE POSITIVE SIDE IF YOU WANT TO LIVE AND NOT EXIST

denzig

I am in complete agreement with Treverion (sorry if it's misspelled).  Some of the examples listed are, well, silly.  For instance, the argument that previous tier level equipment is not the best thing now?  Well, how do you think others would feel if they released the expansion, you could get level 70, but could not get any higher levels of gear, weapons, trinkets, etc?  I completely agree that more content would have been great, but also consider (as previously mentioned) that more content will be added in an upcoming patch.  Blizzard has not forgotten it's loyalty to the players, and is trying to get what they can to us when they can.  I'm much happier that this is basically being released in two, or more, parts when it is stable, then have them throw a bunch of bugged quests and items to us at once.



Also, on a side note, it seems to me that most of the people who are complaining (definitely not all so don't everyone be offended) are the gankers, such as level 60+ who like to spend their time killing 37 - 45''s in STV...  Personally, I'm happy that this balance has been shifted somewhat because I LOVE the quests in STV, and pretty much everyone avoids it like the plague because of the ganking that happens there.  It's nice to be able to enjoy the storylines and quests without having to constantly hide, flee, or CR every two minutes!

Kyleran

Originally posted by LuRavi


 

Kyleran do you think the expansion would have saved either of your guilds if BC had released with 25 man raids from day one instead of waiting what 3 months till the next part of the expansion was realeased in an update?

Actually, the raiding guild death toll from TBC is five, as 3 friends of mine in different raiding guilds all experienced the same issue.



The problem was Kara specifically, and the decision by Blizzard to put a raid timer on it.  Let's be honest, in almost every guild you are lucky to have more than one person who is a good raid leader (and is willing to do it).  Kara required the same precision and teamwork of the previous 40 man raid instances, so it required knowledge, strong leadership to get through it.



In the above 5 guilds that I mentioned, (and they actually ranged from somewhat casual to total hardcore) the same situation occurred.  They managed to field two regular 10 man Kara groups, but didn't have the leadership to run groups 3/4 (esp since some of the players in those groups had more erratic playing schedules)



Also contributing to the problem was the design of Kara that basically encouraged groups to run with 2 Priests and 2 Warriors.  Sure, you could sub in a Resto Druid (but a lot of those had respec'd for tanking lately) or use an alt tank like a pally or bear druid.  But doing that required groups to be even better lead/trainined/talented than using the basic set up, and ironically, it was always groups 1/2 that had the optimal build, and groups 3/4 with the compromise build.



This caused massive resentment by those folks who didn't feel they got a chance to run Kara enough, or to actually take down the bosses for that matter.  Attempts were made to rotate people around, but there was that darn raid timer.... preventing easy rotation of players (this was especially vexing for the casual raid guild I was in). Toss in the greed factor of some players, who were not willing to sit out for a week while others took their spot (esp among the DPS classes that had to rotate far more than the tanks/healers) and you had a formula for disaster.



Alot of these problems would have been alleviated by one simple change....remove the raid timer from Kara.  Why a 10 man needs a raid timer is beyond me....just to slow down people's progression? UBRS didn't need a raid timer, why did Kara?



We all knew the 25 man raid instances were going to cause some adjustments to the 40 man raid guilds, but Kara surprised many folks with the challenges its 10 man limitation/timer presented.

miataka

I voted No.



But as a explination. Im on a normal server (PVP flag option) and when TBC came out we were a small guild, We dont Raid Enemy cities unless its to complete a quest. We are more of a guild of friends that level and quest together and relax have a good time. Its a 50/50 mix age group ranging in extremes from 12 year old players to ppl well into there 30's.



We have alot of players that do Battlegrounds, everyday some all day long and alot of us like the 39 bracket. We have roughly 300 chracters in guild now and were steadly growing and have more and more fun everyday. And I feel its directly related to TBC. See its a expansion that Added ALL content, yeah the 40 man raid endgame lvl 60 stuff did get kinda hurt, But .. well thast the point right?



After 3 years .... the company adds a ton of new content and literally  "expands" the world and chracter restrictions adds new races and gear... quests a entire new zone. Yes ofcoarse teh "end game" stuff prior to this is no longer end game.. Umm.. if you didnt do it in teh last 3 years... well... Its not fair to say too much as some ppl may have only started playing recently... but 3 year vets that I met are excited about it once more.



Maybe there is more to just doing 40 man raids.. maybe tehre is more to the game now then camping and ganking people 30 levels lower then you.



End result...  Each person should have there own Ideas and goals..  maybe collecting that T3 gear was your goal..instead of being mad about it being hard to get a group....try the new quests, enjoy the fact that this is a MMORPG and not a FPS gank fest, if you thought it was that to begain with you WILL be dissapointed.

tombear81

WoW was going downhill a long time before the BC and blizzard had nothing to do with it !



It was the rise of the bliz-tards and possibly the most selfish, nasty, childish sections of the community turning ironforge into a spamming ground and my ignore list to be maxxxxxxed out. The endless grinding to get to level 60 also did nothing to keep people and the atmosphere of feeling like having to keep up ( because there nothing else to do) made many people leave along with the nastiness. WoW was the ultimate chat room  where you could log in, be nasty as hell and pretty muc get away with it. The game population allowed someone to do this quite often.



WoW was sucessful. It reached saturation and the BC and other expansion packs are little sweets for after the main course. WoW has begun to run its course. Its too big to die overnight or get "pwnd" by LOTRO (LOTRO is WoW clone mark II though) but it will begin to decline now. It may also regain some old players who left because of moron blizz kids and crowded servers but generally and this isnt a dig... its a natural cycle. WoW is beinginng fade. The criticism of WoW end game and the BC is evidence of this.

battleaxe22

Im loving it so far



Sorry it made the game worse for you ,and I can understand why ...Most friends of mine who were so goddamn "epic" quit.But the majority of them are still playing though.

lobes

BC is what brought me back to the game after a year and a half away. The trial was fun, and reminded me how much I enjoyed the game. I'm lvl 64 now, and having a GREAT time. I'm mostly a solo, small PUG player, so there is tons to do to keep me busy. Raids were never a big a deal to me, and I've already replaced all my former equipment with much better stuff simply from solo quests.

Elgareth

Nah it hasn't made the game worse as such.

It just didn't bring anything new to the table, instead it improved it's core mechanics, to a degree that now more people see the flaws in the core mechanics.



WoW is not perfect, it's just another MMORPG. It has it's flaws, it isn't fun forever.

People start to understand this now, but that isn't BCs fault, it's WoW.

zolla

The biggest negative for me is the grind, I know we always had to grind before TBC but that was different. Pre-TBC we grinded for money, herbs etc to make consumables for raiding. In other words it was optional, if i didn't want the potions and stuff I could still raid as we all had access to the instances.

The new way of getting attunements changed all this, before we needed to do a little quest and we had access to the raid content (MC, Onyxia, BWL) it was quite simple and relatively quick.

Now I need to grind reputation which allows me to visit new raid instances!

Naxx begun this transition with AD grind to get cheaper access (you needed to pay gold to gain attunement). With the huge grind involved just to get access to Sepantshrine Cavern TBC has taken it on a whole new level. The new instances they are putting into the game are probably great, but only around 1% of the server are ever going to see that content. The rest of the server will be running 5 man instances time and time again, all the while watching their reputation bar......boring!!

 

KinkyKelly

bc killed a lot of guilds, especially Karazhan, there were so many players left out, so many guild dramas, even the most stable guild communites were shaken by the changes bc brought about, all in all it just proved what is really behind guilds in World of Warcraft - get into raid, kill boss and win the loot roll or dkp bid to make myself stronger as an individual, synchronizing trivial tactics is still the key to progress in wow, the teamplay is corny and the community is fake, people pretend to be nice to one another, a single argument may ignite a huge conflict (but I guess that is just the way most mmorpgs operate within the group of complete strangers)

butters88

The release of BC basically got rid of so much that blizzard had already made. For example, raid instances such as MC, BWL, and NAX are all pointless now. They pretty much spit on the people who worked so hard for their T2 and 3. I think BC would have been a succes if they hadent raised the lvl cap. If they had just added new raid instances that maybe gave T4 and then added more factions and new pvp systems it would have worked out better for them. But that's just my opinion.

Corneileus

I vote yes. I played WoW for about a year, then the expansion came out. I got to 70, flying mount, and all the works. I miss the 40 man raids the most, they were the best time I had in WoW. I guess I just burned out while trying to get keyed for every SINGLE instance out there. It turned more into a job, really. I lost all source of fun in the game, which is the main reason for playing it, so I stopped. My girlfriend and I have been happier ever since.

iddmitri

yes, same crap nothing new.

Recant

Nothing new...



Except all the new stuff they added to it.  Go read a review or something, jeez.

basroil

It invalidated a lot of gear and made 60 raids useless.  But that is really a matter of life in a PvE game releasing an expansion with a +level cap.



In terms of what it did to the game itself - very little.  Just more of the same no better or worse.

Elgareth

Oh, on a sidenote:

BC didn't kill WoW...

But BC DID kill the whole Warcraft IP IMO. (Unless Blizzard announces, that the WoW Universe was some weird parallel universe which had nothing to do with the other Warcraft games)



Why?

Imagine a future Warcraft 4...

You'd have to have Orcs, Humans, Night Elves, Undead, but then you'd have to have Blood Elves and Draenei, too.

While I have not too much problems seeing Blood Elves as an entire Race (or they could support the Undead Army, but that wouldn't fit too well...)... I DO have problems with Draenei...

I mean... hell... Creatures that travel around in HUGE Spaceships, blessed by the absolute Holyness itself...

They don't fit AT ALL into the Warcraft scheme...



I don't believe any Warcraft 4 will release... or only with a rather long period of time from WoW...

You can expand the lore only to a certain degree, and Blizzard has WAY overdone it with WoW, and especially BC.

(You killed the Destructor of Worlds...hundreds of times...what more could happen?)

w175jab

It was rushed onto the market against the wishes of Blizzard...



Of course it wasn't up to par... You can't rush Blizzard or things go badly... We all know how precise things have to be for them to even unveil a game... not to mention release it or an expansion.



The coming expansion/s will by far make up for the lack of detail in TBC

Homeslice513

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Originally posted by Elgareth
Nah it hasn't made the game worse as such.
It just didn't bring anything new to the table, instead it improved it's core mechanics, to a degree that now more people see the flaws in the core mechanics.WoW is not perfect, it's just another MMORPG. It has it's flaws, it isn't fun forever.
People start to understand this now, but that isn't BCs fault, it's WoW.

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I totally agree with this here

I had a blast upon TBCs release and then felt the same thing again. Maybe it is just my playstyle but I don't like the only thing to do at a high level is instances and raids. I also do not consider faction grinding fun.