Ok. I'm a little confused about this gold farming thing. So if a prospector collects gold, forges it into ingots and either sells it on the trade channel ot the AH, they are considerd gold farmers?? Or is it the use of bots that make this illegal?? Could some clear this up for me? Thanks.
Ok. I'm a little confused about this gold farming thing. So if a prospector collects gold, forges it into ingots and either sells it on the trade channel ot the AH, they are considerd gold farmers?? Or is it the use of bots that make this illegal?? Could some clear this up for me? Thanks.
Using bots = illegal
Selling in-game stuff (gold, items, powerleveling, etc) for REAL money = illegal
Selling any items in-game for game currency = legal, as long as you don't farm with bots
Ok. I'm a little confused about this gold farming thing. So if a prospector collects gold, forges it into ingots and either sells it on the trade channel ot the AH, they are considerd gold farmers?? Or is it the use of bots that make this illegal?? Could some clear this up for me? Thanks.
Using bots = illegal
Selling in-game stuff (gold, items, powerleveling, etc) for REAL money = illegal
Selling any items in-game for game currency = legal, as long as you don't farm with bots
I see... Thanks for clearing that up for me. One other question is how do you know when someone is using a bot?
I have to agree with you on this. I'd suggest contacting customer service and talking to them. Explain that you are new to MMORPGs and didn't realize it wasn't allowed. (Please don't yell at the CS rep, they aren't the ones that do the banning. Insistent but polite works wonders.)
Did your notification state you were perma-banned? Lots of times games will ban for a few weeks as a 'warning'.
Also, if the first one doesn't get you reinstated. Try again a day or two later. I expect you will find a sympathetic ear sooner or later. As the game is new, they might also have mis-identified you as a troublemaker.
Oh, and if someone decides to throw the EULA at you, just remember that the legal standing of EULAs are reported to be questionable in court, and due to them being in legaleese, even a well read educated individual is not actually expected to understand them, and due to the way they are displayed, they are actually difficult for most people to read. (They may just be click-through garbage, but don't threaten lawyers or anything like that, because most companies have a policy that when a customer starts threatening legal action, it goes straight to the legal department, and those guys never fix issues, just deal with lawsuits and the like...)
There's a very good article on catching gold farmer in the current issue of the Escapist.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/ A lot of games have had their economies messed up by gold sellers, and Turbine is being proactive to prevent that from happening in LotRO.
I wonder how many of the "you shoulda known, suk it up" crowd have actually read the EULA carefully, word for word.
The problem is everyone is "new" and "didn't know any better". While I don't believe anyone who says it to be 100% honest, sorry you lost your account.
On the other hand, don't go making threads warning people about a company for banning you for breaking the rules. Seriously, everyone needs to stop laying any blame at turbine for this. He broke the rules, got banned, end of story. Everyone who gets caught has a sob story.
I am new to the gaming scene but a huge fan of the LOTR books and lore and I decided to get my feet wet with the MMO craze and bought LOTRO. I also purchased 60 prepaid days for the game and fell in love with the entire genre. Because of my "newness" I was blissfully unaware of the "Gold Farmer" problem that is prevelant in MMO's and I stupidly purchased a small amount of Gold online (5 gold) and didn't think anything of it. Well, two days later and I am now banned forever from LOTRO. I understand now about Gold Farming and Buying from reading forums like this, and I am confused as to how it is good buisness to ban a player for buying gold one time without a warning. I understand banning Gold Farmers, but I think a caught buyer should get a warning and have his gold confiscated. I was honestly ignorant when I bought gold from a farmer and now I am banned forever?! Am I weird for thinking that this is unfair? I am a US Army soldier and father of 4 and frankly the nearly 100 bucks I shelled out for my game and gametime is a lot of money in my budget and I don't get to spend that kind of cash on myself often, I guess I just want to hear from fellow gamers so I can figure out if I'm crazy or if my argument makes some kind of sense... Thanks All!
Hello Dean,
Welcome to the wonderfull world of MMORPG's. I'm happy that you've finely decided to try out online gaming, but it saddens me to see that it was cut short by a mistake on your part. Being a veteran myself, I truly understand how far our pay has to stretch...especially when you have 4 children. Lets think about this logically for a minute and then you can make your own decision on where to go from here.
Customer Service Representitives are human just like you and I and follow protocol. Plus they become jaded over time and assume things without asking. What I would do is call up Customer Support and explain your situation. Chances are, they will reactivate your account with a warning if you are mature and polite with them. Good luck to you and be safe!
Nate
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
You think thats bad, 2 people in my former guild (LOTRO I've since quit) got perma banned for bringing mobs to the NPC's to kill to farm hides.. no warning, nothing just perma ban, lol.
Every game I've every played had some elements of getting NPC's to help you kill mobs
Strange, whenever an NPC kills something for me they are not able to be looted or drop nothing.
Edit:Yup just tried it 10 mobs straight and no loot.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
I am new to the gaming scene but a huge fan of the LOTR books and lore and I decided to get my feet wet with the MMO craze and bought LOTRO. I also purchased 60 prepaid days for the game and fell in love with the entire genre. Because of my "newness" I was blissfully unaware of the "Gold Farmer" problem that is prevelant in MMO's and I stupidly purchased a small amount of Gold online (5 gold) and didn't think anything of it. Well, two days later and I am now banned forever from LOTRO. I understand now about Gold Farming and Buying from reading forums like this, and I am confused as to how it is good buisness to ban a player for buying gold one time without a warning. I understand banning Gold Farmers, but I think a caught buyer should get a warning and have his gold confiscated. I was honestly ignorant when I bought gold from a farmer and now I am banned forever?! Am I weird for thinking that this is unfair? I am a US Army soldier and father of 4 and frankly the nearly 100 bucks I shelled out for my game and gametime is a lot of money in my budget and I don't get to spend that kind of cash on myself often, I guess I just want to hear from fellow gamers so I can figure out if I'm crazy or if my argument makes some kind of sense... Thanks All!
Look at the bright side. Atleast the MMO you got banned from sucked.
(p.s. you arent banned forever, you just lost your characters. Just start a new account (preferably in a better game :P))
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
I find banning because of in-game currency quite silly. I don't think there's anything wrong with selling of in-game currency. A mmorpg running company that actually bans sellers just shows that they have enough subscribers and can afford to lose some. Also, they count on so called farmers to buy new accounts after they're banned. I think it is better to join them (I believe that most companies have deals with "farming" companies anyway) as they will never be completely beaten.
I am in favor of environments where farming is meaningless. Think different business models. Item/cash malls have their strengths. Some can spend while others can play for free while farmers have less point in farming when cash and items are available from the source.
good, I hope your IP address is banned also for buying gold. Your single action there just causes so much problems for the people who want to escape to another world. You bring your monetary powers in real life to the virtual world. How cool.
Well deserved IMO. Maybe you should read the agreements you agree to before playing? Take that into consideration and it makes you a fool.
I don't blame Turbine. If people won't take the 2minutes to read the damn agreement then you ain't worth the stinkin' hassle. "First Timers" screw up the system a lot more the reapeaters, because repeaters get caught pretty quickly. While first timers tend to get away with it fairly easily.
As said, you should have read the agreement. *shrug* no sympathy from me. Go buy another copy if you want to.
Try explaining your situtation to a GM I suppose. Fat lot of good it might do though.
If MMO's weren't so stale, with their farming, grinding, and respawning npc's who spawn in the exact same spot, exact same npc, always the same, not having any type of world-changing action or "realistic" mob/npc creation (respawning) then gold farming wouldn't be such a big problem.
MMO's need to be more inventive, creative, and just plain BETTER. Stale "Kill 10 beetles" and "Kill 5 boars" is the reason gold farmers can farm gold so easily. When you have a system set up where you can (LITERALLY) farm npc's, that's half the problem. When you lack creativity, unique features, technological advancement, or whatever keeps things from staying stale and far apart from the classic EQ mindset, gold farmers are bound to show up, WITH EASE, and with great success, to destroy you already-horrible and unrealistic economy.
Games also need to have better counter-measures. Such as logging and tracking any player who makes more than X amount of gold in Y amount of time. Maybe making trading more difficulty? A system where a level 1 can't have any more than X amount of gold, or Y amount of equipment worth gold would work to help stop some gold buyers AND prevent tweaking.
Gold selling, twinking, power leveling, it's all the same. MMO's need to begin to add or start their game with counter measures, even if minimal, to track players who make obsessive amounts of gold, or gain obsessive amounts of levels, over short periods of time.
Maybe even making a REAL economy would solve this? If there's only 1 million gold coins in the video game, even if people buy/sell gold, at least it wont inflate the economy. Such a system may seem to be horribly flawed, but EVERY idea can become a good idea when counter-measures are put into place. Prevent people from hording gold by having "pirates" or invisible "bank robbers" who steal money if people horde. Or maybe just make money valuable, and things such as TAXES happen, where everything you buy, sell, or [unrealistically find] is taxed, and the taxed % goes back to npc's or SOMEWHERE.
Anyways, I think it's the fault of MMO's for not being smart and creative. It is the MMO's fault that gold sellers roam rampant by EASILY and LITERALLY farming NPC's. In some areas, you can farm npc's AT A FARM in the game. Now that's taking the word literally!
I think unfortunately you picked the worst company to have to deal with. After the whole Asheron's Call 2 fiasco, I have spent some time with Turbines Customer Support, and all I can say is you have an uphill battle here. Most companies will be sympathetic and at least refund you unused prepaid game time because they also want you to use their products in the future, or at least put that money torward a new account. Good ol Turbine however, has never understood very much about marketing, execution, gameplay, or customer service, but they do employ some very talented artists. Thats all it takes to make a Turbine mmorpg anymore is pretty graphics. You did violate the EULA, but I dont know anyone that plays a game for a certain length of time and doesnt violate teh EULA somehow. They havent perma-banned all those charcters running around with names like Bilbofaggins yet have they? But hey, here's to hoping maybe Turbine will sell all their franchises to Blizzard, and get out of the mmorpg market entirely. I bet they could make nice dishwashers instead.
Ok. I'm a little confused about this gold farming thing. So if a prospector collects gold, forges it into ingots and either sells it on the trade channel ot the AH, they are considerd gold farmers?? Or is it the use of bots that make this illegal?? Could some clear this up for me? Thanks.
Using bots = illegal
Selling in-game stuff (gold, items, powerleveling, etc) for REAL money = illegal
Selling any items in-game for game currency = legal, as long as you don't farm with bots
It is not Illegal, it is against the terms of the EULA its not against any LAW.
I am sorry if you are upset that I started a complain thread but I simply thought this was a matter worth addressing. The "tough, deal with it" is a response I expected to get but I still am of the mind that if this genre is to grow then the "insiders" should be somewhat more helpful to the "Noobs" and I still feel that a perma-ban which I recieved was an extreme price to pay for being new to the MMO world.
Ok first of all i belive you when you say you did not know.
Now first of all you must understand most MMO players hate gold farmers and gold buyers as they can ruin any game permanently.
Also in future when you buy a MMO read the EULA first i know its boring and often long but it explains the rules of the game and in the EULA you would have seen the bit that explaing that you cant buy Gold. It will also explain the punshment for it too.
Now one final point the monent you click the 'I AGREE' button to leave the EULA section you are basically saying you have read and aggreed to it. So im afraid there is nothing you can do really. You will just have to get another mmo when you can afford it.
You knew perfectly well you were cheating when you decide to buy gold from a third party... you knew it perfectly well, but thought you would get away with it....
You did not.
Now you think its unfair and ask for a "free pass" once or twice when breaking the rules, before punishment.
You said you were in the army? Did they teach you nothing about hard honest work and earning your rewards, and not bribe people to get them for free? Seriously...
What a pathetic thread. Since when is ignorance an excuse? People like you ruin the game for every one else who pay by the rules and good for LOTRO and Turbine that they banned you. And I don't believe one bit that you didn't know what you were doing... But eater way now you know. Learn from your mistakes - best kind of lesson.
Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...
I personally think alot of you are just being too harsh on the guy i mean he bought some gold so what like you all have not cheated your way in life sometime or other and so what if he is cheating in game is it really affecting you and your gameplay i mean it's a game for christ sakes? I know that it affects the economy but that is not all that good in game anyhow so why all the harshness the bloke made a mistake and i am sure he has now learnt but i see gold farmers posting in game all day nearly everyday and the same one's but hey they are still on i think Turbine has persecuted the wrong person here i mean they have obviously noticed him buying gold i wonder if they have banned the person he was buying it from?
I guess what im saying is give the bloke a break he made a mistake he is only human you know..
Well, if you're telling the truth, that is unfortunate. But, there's a reason the MMOG companies have the EULA (end user license agreement?) on their games. Just suck it up, and learn from your mistake, that's all i can say.
Agreed, You just have to read, going down to a dealership and financing a car without reading the contract ?
Comments
Ok. I'm a little confused about this gold farming thing. So if a prospector collects gold, forges it into ingots and either sells it on the trade channel ot the AH, they are considerd gold farmers?? Or is it the use of bots that make this illegal?? Could some clear this up for me? Thanks.
Using bots = illegal
Selling in-game stuff (gold, items, powerleveling, etc) for REAL money = illegal
Selling any items in-game for game currency = legal, as long as you don't farm with bots
Using bots = illegal
Selling in-game stuff (gold, items, powerleveling, etc) for REAL money = illegal
Selling any items in-game for game currency = legal, as long as you don't farm with bots
I see... Thanks for clearing that up for me. One other question is how do you know when someone is using a bot?
That's your best bet!
I'm not very experienced with detecting bots. But since bots are programs, look for repeating patterns, you won't be able to talk with them, etc.
In some games, like NM camping bots in FFXI, they run towards mobs using cheats for speed-up, and often starts running just before the NM pops.
There's a very good article on catching gold farmer in the current issue of the Escapist.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/ A lot of games have had their economies messed up by gold sellers, and Turbine is being proactive to prevent that from happening in LotRO.
I wonder how many of the "you shoulda known, suk it up" crowd have actually read the EULA carefully, word for word.
The problem is everyone is "new" and "didn't know any better". While I don't believe anyone who says it to be 100% honest, sorry you lost your account.
On the other hand, don't go making threads warning people about a company for banning you for breaking the rules. Seriously, everyone needs to stop laying any blame at turbine for this. He broke the rules, got banned, end of story. Everyone who gets caught has a sob story.
Hello Dean,
Welcome to the wonderfull world of MMORPG's. I'm happy that you've finely decided to try out online gaming, but it saddens me to see that it was cut short by a mistake on your part. Being a veteran myself, I truly understand how far our pay has to stretch...especially when you have 4 children. Lets think about this logically for a minute and then you can make your own decision on where to go from here.
Customer Service Representitives are human just like you and I and follow protocol. Plus they become jaded over time and assume things without asking. What I would do is call up Customer Support and explain your situation. Chances are, they will reactivate your account with a warning if you are mature and polite with them. Good luck to you and be safe!
Nate
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Strange, whenever an NPC kills something for me they are not able to be looted or drop nothing.
Edit:Yup just tried it 10 mobs straight and no loot.
In America I have bad teeth. If I lived in England my teeth would be perfect.
Look at the bright side. Atleast the MMO you got banned from sucked.
(p.s. you arent banned forever, you just lost your characters. Just start a new account (preferably in a better game :P))
"It is in your nature to do one thing correctly; Before me, you rightfully tremble. But, fear is not what you owe me. You owe me awe." ~Francis Dolarhyde
I find banning because of in-game currency quite silly. I don't think there's anything wrong with selling of in-game currency. A mmorpg running company that actually bans sellers just shows that they have enough subscribers and can afford to lose some. Also, they count on so called farmers to buy new accounts after they're banned. I think it is better to join them (I believe that most companies have deals with "farming" companies anyway) as they will never be completely beaten.
I am in favor of environments where farming is meaningless. Think different business models. Item/cash malls have their strengths. Some can spend while others can play for free while farmers have less point in farming when cash and items are available from the source.
Hehe, same for me, but a few months ago there was a quest mob (in EQ2?) which I pulled to some NPCs, they killed it, no drop but quest complete
good, I hope your IP address is banned also for buying gold. Your single action there just causes so much problems for the people who want to escape to another world. You bring your monetary powers in real life to the virtual world. How cool.
x_-
I have hard time to believe that topic starter would actually be as newbie as he claims.
First offence perma ban sounds too much, but simple warning sounds too little. You broke ingame rules, you got banned. Simple.
Being it a first time offense, a permanent ban seems pretty harsh. However, a ban for a lengthy amount of time is more understandable and acceptable.
Nothing new from Turbine though.
Well deserved IMO. Maybe you should read the agreements you agree to before playing? Take that into consideration and it makes you a fool.
I don't blame Turbine. If people won't take the 2minutes to read the damn agreement then you ain't worth the stinkin' hassle. "First Timers" screw up the system a lot more the reapeaters, because repeaters get caught pretty quickly. While first timers tend to get away with it fairly easily.
As said, you should have read the agreement. *shrug* no sympathy from me. Go buy another copy if you want to.
Try explaining your situtation to a GM I suppose. Fat lot of good it might do though.
If MMO's weren't so stale, with their farming, grinding, and respawning npc's who spawn in the exact same spot, exact same npc, always the same, not having any type of world-changing action or "realistic" mob/npc creation (respawning) then gold farming wouldn't be such a big problem.
MMO's need to be more inventive, creative, and just plain BETTER. Stale "Kill 10 beetles" and "Kill 5 boars" is the reason gold farmers can farm gold so easily. When you have a system set up where you can (LITERALLY) farm npc's, that's half the problem. When you lack creativity, unique features, technological advancement, or whatever keeps things from staying stale and far apart from the classic EQ mindset, gold farmers are bound to show up, WITH EASE, and with great success, to destroy you already-horrible and unrealistic economy.
Games also need to have better counter-measures. Such as logging and tracking any player who makes more than X amount of gold in Y amount of time. Maybe making trading more difficulty? A system where a level 1 can't have any more than X amount of gold, or Y amount of equipment worth gold would work to help stop some gold buyers AND prevent tweaking.
Gold selling, twinking, power leveling, it's all the same. MMO's need to begin to add or start their game with counter measures, even if minimal, to track players who make obsessive amounts of gold, or gain obsessive amounts of levels, over short periods of time.
Maybe even making a REAL economy would solve this? If there's only 1 million gold coins in the video game, even if people buy/sell gold, at least it wont inflate the economy. Such a system may seem to be horribly flawed, but EVERY idea can become a good idea when counter-measures are put into place. Prevent people from hording gold by having "pirates" or invisible "bank robbers" who steal money if people horde. Or maybe just make money valuable, and things such as TAXES happen, where everything you buy, sell, or [unrealistically find] is taxed, and the taxed % goes back to npc's or SOMEWHERE.
Anyways, I think it's the fault of MMO's for not being smart and creative. It is the MMO's fault that gold sellers roam rampant by EASILY and LITERALLY farming NPC's. In some areas, you can farm npc's AT A FARM in the game. Now that's taking the word literally!
I think unfortunately you picked the worst company to have to deal with. After the whole Asheron's Call 2 fiasco, I have spent some time with Turbines Customer Support, and all I can say is you have an uphill battle here. Most companies will be sympathetic and at least refund you unused prepaid game time because they also want you to use their products in the future, or at least put that money torward a new account. Good ol Turbine however, has never understood very much about marketing, execution, gameplay, or customer service, but they do employ some very talented artists. Thats all it takes to make a Turbine mmorpg anymore is pretty graphics. You did violate the EULA, but I dont know anyone that plays a game for a certain length of time and doesnt violate teh EULA somehow. They havent perma-banned all those charcters running around with names like Bilbofaggins yet have they? But hey, here's to hoping maybe Turbine will sell all their franchises to Blizzard, and get out of the mmorpg market entirely. I bet they could make nice dishwashers instead.
Good for Turbine!. But now he is again ready to kill people, that's worse than buying gold.
Using bots = illegal
Selling in-game stuff (gold, items, powerleveling, etc) for REAL money = illegal
Selling any items in-game for game currency = legal, as long as you don't farm with bots
It is not Illegal, it is against the terms of the EULA its not against any LAW.
Now first of all you must understand most MMO players hate gold farmers and gold buyers as they can ruin any game permanently.
Also in future when you buy a MMO read the EULA first i know its boring and often long but it explains the rules of the game and in the EULA you would have seen the bit that explaing that you cant buy Gold. It will also explain the punshment for it too.
Now one final point the monent you click the 'I AGREE' button to leave the EULA section you are basically saying you have read and aggreed to it. So im afraid there is nothing you can do really. You will just have to get another mmo when you can afford it.
You knew perfectly well you were cheating when you decide to buy gold from a third party... you knew it perfectly well, but thought you would get away with it....
You did not.
Now you think its unfair and ask for a "free pass" once or twice when breaking the rules, before punishment.
You said you were in the army? Did they teach you nothing about hard honest work and earning your rewards, and not bribe people to get them for free? Seriously...
___________________________________________________
Anatomy of a Fanboi
This is you.
What a pathetic thread. Since when is ignorance an excuse? People like you ruin the game for every one else who pay by the rules and good for LOTRO and Turbine that they banned you. And I don't believe one bit that you didn't know what you were doing... But eater way now you know. Learn from your mistakes - best kind of lesson.
I personally think alot of you are just being too harsh on the guy i mean he bought some gold so what like you all have not cheated your way in life sometime or other and so what if he is cheating in game is it really affecting you and your gameplay i mean it's a game for christ sakes? I know that it affects the economy but that is not all that good in game anyhow so why all the harshness the bloke made a mistake and i am sure he has now learnt but i see gold farmers posting in game all day nearly everyday and the same one's but hey they are still on i think Turbine has persecuted the wrong person here i mean they have obviously noticed him buying gold i wonder if they have banned the person he was buying it from?
I guess what im saying is give the bloke a break he made a mistake he is only human you know..
Waiting on Guild Wars 2