Somewhat off topic: Only us "westerners" are hung up with how we are portrayed in our games... the Japanese gamers and developers could generally care less at how much their character resembles them. 90% of the games there the 'avatar'of the game usually looks nothing like an Asian, heck in most fighting games only the "Bruce Lee" wannabees even slightly resemble Asians (Kung Loa anyone?) Heck the only mainstream game that I ever played from japan that had a Asian main character was: Onimishu
Its called marketing, selling units in the west is where the money is... not hard logic really
Wrong Skippy... this trend is also prevalent in Anime and if you think Anime is REALLY aimed at us westerners than you are living on some other plane of existance, we usually get the 'good' Anime years after the show has stopped running in Japan.
Gundum, Cowboy beebop, Trigun, Narotu, Kenshi Ronin.... I could go on and on.
While your point makes sense, there culture really just does not care if a avatar is asian or not... Because if Shin Chan, and Inuasha are aimed at westerners...... then I need a new mindset... Heck avatar the last air bender is more 'asian' than just about any anime I ever saw, and that was made the the very American Nickolodean.
I know that Warhammer is based on old Germanic culture but where does it say that the description of the people has to match that of old germanic people?
Please give a quote or a reference: where it says that an Empire citizen is exclusively white skinned? Where the Chaos Gods insist that thier followers be Aryan?
Hmmm...come to think of it...female soldiers in a Renaissance German army?
Since some of you are pointing to real history...historically speaking, armies in desperate wars have a tendancy to relax thier views on the ethnic background, age, religon, and gender of thier fighting people. In WW2 even the nazis loosened thier philosophy on where SS men came from.
I see that most people here talking about this thing do not have any clue about Warhammer lore. I myself have been playing Warhammer tabletop games about 6 years now and read many books about lore and stuff. First I want make one thing clear. Black ocrs are not "black" like someone had implined. Evidence here http://ca.games-workshop.com/news/cn/articles/Soc_ca/jason/army.htm
Then into the main subject. Lets see Empire of Warhammer is based on medieval/renesaince Holy Roman Empire. In lore people of empire are often dercribded as white skinned folks. People of Empire are greatly xenophopic and paranoid. Even tiniest flawl is considered as a mutation. Example baby with one eye blue and other green could be killed because his parents thing that he/she is corrupted by chaos. Some people suggest that these xenophopic people would just cope with black skinned people that they normaly would keep as mutants? You could also tell me where would those black skinned people arrive to Empire from moon? There is not any mention in lore that i have encountered about dark skinned empire people. Some suggestted that they would come with Knight of Blazing Suns from Araby in crusades that since Knights found their god there. First of all God these Knights worship is Titelian god where people are also white. Humans of Old World also hate people of Araby because Araby invasion in Titelia and Estilia and crusades. Then people of Araby are not even "black" skinned that some here are driving after. They are rip off people of Middle-east also you really cannot blame Daoc of that you could not make pitch black Saracen because they are not that.
I want to take example of Guild Wars Nightfall. In that game you could not make totaly white skinned character. Since game was based in Middle-east/Africa. I did not see people rising in barricades that time and I dont see reason to do it now.
I know my english is not nearly good as I would like it to be since english is not my native language or even second. So please try make sense about my rant...
ps. You should be able to make "tanned" character but you should still be able to regonize that he is human from Old World. If my writing brokes some political correctness in U.S.A I am sorry. Here we can still speak about these thing without knives on our throat
Im sorry mate they will not be changing the lore to suit a modern day society, it would upset too many people who are already the warhammer fans. Are there black societies in warhammer... of course there are.. they are just not part of the Germanic Empire portrayed in the warhammer world nor are they part of the French-ish bretonia. It isnt meant as an insult, its just the way it is within their lore and to change it would be asking too much my friend. Age of conan are doing the same thing I hear... Robert E. Howard's work is taken to the letter and nothing is changed in the name of multiculturalism. Again im not being insulting its just the stance these people are taking to try to reproduce the environment the authors have created, and the following from these creations to be appeased... but please dont let this bother you, I'm sure it will be a great game reguardless. Who knows the empire of Nipon and the clans/tribes of the south could be added in later expansions as will Skaven and wood elves. I have no doubt they will.
Put it this way I still loved GTA: San Andreas even tho I couldnt play a white dude. The game was still cool.
and if its the "making a character to look like me" aspect... all i can say is to the people who are playing dwarves and orcs... Good luck with that.
In the meantime mate get some warhammer books they are so cool... Fel Cargo (pirates in the warhammer world) is awesome, the Malus Darkblade saga is also worth reading.... the list goes on. Please I urge you to read and understand how difficult it would be for them, become farmiliar with the lore and the environment created.
I know that Warhammer is based on old Germanic culture but where does it say that the description of the people has to match that of old germanic people? Please give a quote or a reference: where it says that an Empire citizen is exclusively white skinned? Where the Chaos Gods insist that thier followers be Aryan?
Read the 25 odd years of warhammer lore and artwork. This game is about the warhammer world now i can however think of one way that Dark skinned races could be introduce 2 in fact ill list them below and see what you think.
1. The empire conqured many regions and tgribes of men what if one of then at say the edge of the empire bordering araby mixed witht he arabs [interbred]. This could create a empire bloodline with darker skintones and maybee even black skin [his parents were araby imagrants perhaps or his grandperants].
2. The empire hires a lot of mercenary units and merceneries come from all over the world. What if an expansion was released called Dogs of War.
Empire does not have common border or never had with Araby so that rules out your suggestion. There is actually quite long travel from Empire to Araby. http://www.warhammer.net/maps.php
About mercenaries that would be ok if there would be class that is mercenary. Classes we are going to be play are empire exclusive how could mercenary become warrior priest? Expansion about Dog of Wars would be another thing...
Empire does not have common border or never had with Araby so that rules out your suggestion... About mercenaries that would be ok if there would be class that is mercenary. Classes we are going to be play are empire exclusive how could mercenary become warrior priest? Expansion about Dog of Wars would be another thing...
The beuty of it is that new mercenery types just for this game could be created and be ok to the lore of warhammer. For example an Araby version of a Battlepriest for example. It will be no worse than having female chosen or female dwarfs on the battlefield. Or even as bad as a female ork [shudders].
The beuty of it is that new mercenery types just for this game could be created and be ok to the lore of warhammer. For example an Araby version of a Battlepriest for example. It will be no worse than having female chosen or female dwarfs on the battlefield. Or even as bad as a female ork [shudders].
Didn't get the News? Chosen will be Male only, no Female playable.
Besides, it is officially stated that "Darker Skin Tones will be available", but if that means negroids, or just a tanned/latino look, noone knows.
The only thing I found that suggests Empire is white is a paint by numbers model set that asks the painter to use dwarf skin paint with high elf skin paint for high lights, and that may have more to do with shipping costs than the WAR universe.
The race of the Empire is decribed as Human race and the race of Man in gamesworkshop...so no help there.
I have not read any of the books so I guess I gotta hand it over to those who have.
I just hope Orcs are closer to this colour and not this colour or this colour. Besides, I wouldn't worry too much about yer skin ya puny human since ya wont be wearing it for long. WAAAAGH!
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
I have not read any of the books so I guess I gotta hand it over to those who have. I just hope Orcs are closer to this colour and not this colour or this colour. Besides, I wouldn't worry too much about yer skin ya puny human since ya wont be wearing it for long. WAAAAGH!
And that's the Greenskin Colour, though it is said that Greenskins become darker in colour as they gain Tiers. (Btw: Note the terrific Shaman hat Can't beat Shaman's style ^_^)
Im sorry mate they will not be changing the lore to suit a modern day society, it would upset too many people who are already the warhammer fans. Are there black societies in warhammer... of course there are.. they are just not part of the Germanic Empire portrayed in the warhammer world nor are they part of the French-ish bretonia. It isnt meant as an insult, its just the way it is within their lore and to change it would be asking too much my friend. Age of conan are doing the same thing I hear... Robert E. Howard's work is taken to the letter and nothing is changed in the name of multiculturalism. Again im not being insulting its just the stance these people are taking to try to reproduce the environment the authors have created, and the following from these creations to be appeased... but please dont let this bother you, I'm sure it will be a great game reguardless. Who knows the empire of Nipon and the clans/tribes of the south could be added in later expansions as will Skaven and wood elves. I have no doubt they will. Put it this way I still loved GTA: San Andreas even tho I couldnt play a white dude. The game was still cool. and if its the "making a character to look like me" aspect... all i can say is to the people who are playing dwarves and orcs... Good luck with that. In the meantime mate get some warhammer books they are so cool... Fel Cargo (pirates in the warhammer world) is awesome, the Malus Darkblade saga is also worth reading.... the list goes on. Please I urge you to read and understand how difficult it would be for them, become farmiliar with the lore and the environment created. Peace :P
You missed the point a bit Arumahn... Yes you could not play a white guy in San Andreas, but you have FOUR (4) other Grand theft Auto's where you could play a caucasin... Not to mention the new one coming up where you play a European who moves to Liberty City ....
Up until very rencently If I wanted a black avatar in any MMO whatsoever , I either had to play someone who looked like he had some kind of skin condition that made him darker than normal OR some kind of dark elf.
And you mentioned Nightfall one of the few MMOs with characters with "negroid" features, but you "FORGOT", to mention that you could already play a cacasin from the core game (6 choices for caucasins), and an asian from the first expansion Factions(2 choices for Asians).
There should be absolutely NO reason for you to feel disenfranchised because ONE game in a series does not let you play a caucasin when you have EVERY other game in the series.
What we are talking about here is merely cosmetic but has some politically correct issues interlaced. As I stated before MOST games that let you play a black character portray us as thugs or brainless muscle or outright ciminals (such as GTA). I can name on one hand the number of MMOs that let you play character that actually looks like a ethnic person and not just a really tan white person:
1) Nightfall - (part of Guildwars)
2) Everquest - (Eradites and they 'evolved' into blue aliens for Everquest 2, cant have the smartest race being black now can we?)
3) City of Heroes - (I love NCsoft )
4)Starwars Galaxy - (But somehow all the males who are black look like Billy D. Williams for some reason )
5) Matrix Online
And I REALLY don't think having Black or Asian or Hispanic or Eskimo characters will contradict the lore for two reasons:
1) The game is based around a bunch of minatures you can paint anyway you want...
2) Seeing that all the lor is based around point #1, it would be more hypocritical and against the whole Warhammer customazation ethic to not be able to have the skin tone you wanted !!!
So there , and one day I will get a web cam or a digital Camera and show you how my minitures of the empire are painted! And I have been in official tournoments and only one person ever complained, he was a Neo-Nazi and they threw him out for bad sportsmanship. Heck I was even congratulated by a Games Workshop official who loved my 'take' on the empire....
Mythic has stated they are dedicated to maintaining lore (even though they have already fudged a bunch of things.. like no female Chosen ..grrr .. ) pure to the source material of Warhammer. In Warhammer .. the Empire is based on the real world germanic/prusian/central euro vibe in the middle ages. And within context of that setting it doesn't make sense to have non-caucasian skin tones. The source material art work confirms that viewpoint. I'm asian in real life and I don't feel they need nor do I want there to be asian skin tones.. just wont fit the game. Dwarves similarly are traditionally caucasian though usually darker more burnished skin tones. Chaos in general though I think may have a few darker skin tones .. though probably with a more inhuman flare. Only time will tell. It wont effect my opinion of the game either way .. if they add dark skin tones for folks thought I can only hope they will add appropriate facial options also .. or I would prefer they just don't.
Are we trying to create social change, nay, social egalitarianism via a sodding GAME? Because that's all it is, you know; a bloody game. A game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a g-a-fecking m, e. This is not some weird social experiment to see if a perfect PC world can be created. It can't. I understand if an individual wants to be a female greenskin, or female chosen, or paint Emperor Karl Franz yellow. Sure. We all are attracted to a sense of sameness; that is to say like attracts like. If you want to have a deeply brown skinned female inside of your chaos chosen armour, then I think you should have it. However, if the game does not allow for it that is not a social commentary. It's a bloody GAME!
If this were a MMORPG that was historically based, perhaps set in the Wars of the Roses, somebody would cry that they couldn't play a Ninja. And we'd all jump on them and smash them with lists of historical "facts" about the setting and the total lack on Ninjas in England at the time of the War of the Roses. Would the Ninja fan be correct to claim that a properly PC ROSESONLINE game include models and classes for his Asian concept?
Don't answer that. It is rhetorical.
I am not advocating racism, bigotry, or exclusion, nor am I advocating a separate but equal concept. I am also unequivocally NOT advocating a safe, happy PC world for WAR. There is already evident to anyone with eyes to read a huge amount of partisanship, racism, and violence...in game. If you are a die hard Greenskin fan then you have a certain sense of racial exclusion. Same for any other die hard fan base. As a game concept it makes for good battles. It's war, you know, not TEAPARTY! What a game that would be: In the violent online world there is only fannying about. TEAPARTY the new MMORPG from EA/Mythic. In TEAPARTY you accumulate points by gathering resources to have the best and largest teaparties while all of your opponents do the same. The dwarfs favour a robust and hearty black tea, while the elf is partial to a delicate white tea. The Empire is split, a holy war on the horizon: Earl Grey or Darjeeling. From the north come the forces of Chaos spouting their battle chants, "Java for the Joe-God!".
Doesn't sound like much fun to me.
In short, I want everyone to get what it is they want, and that just can't happen. I do not want this to turn into Dungeons and Dragons or WoW or any other game, I want it to be and stay Warhammer. Whatever that means.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
Im sorry mate they will not be changing the lore to suit a modern day society, it would upset too many people who are already the warhammer fans. Are there black societies in warhammer... of course there are.. they are just not part of the Germanic Empire portrayed in the warhammer world nor are they part of the French-ish bretonia. It isnt meant as an insult, its just the way it is within their lore and to change it would be asking too much my friend. Age of conan are doing the same thing I hear... Robert E. Howard's work is taken to the letter and nothing is changed in the name of multiculturalism. Again im not being insulting its just the stance these people are taking to try to reproduce the environment the authors have created, and the following from these creations to be appeased... but please dont let this bother you, I'm sure it will be a great game reguardless. Who knows the empire of Nipon and the clans/tribes of the south could be added in later expansions as will Skaven and wood elves. I have no doubt they will. Put it this way I still loved GTA: San Andreas even tho I couldnt play a white dude. The game was still cool. and if its the "making a character to look like me" aspect... all i can say is to the people who are playing dwarves and orcs... Good luck with that. In the meantime mate get some warhammer books they are so cool... Fel Cargo (pirates in the warhammer world) is awesome, the Malus Darkblade saga is also worth reading.... the list goes on. Please I urge you to read and understand how difficult it would be for them, become farmiliar with the lore and the environment created. Peace :P
You missed the point a bit Arumahn... Yes you could not play a white guy in San Andreas, but you have FOUR (4) other Grand theft Auto's where you could play a caucasin... Not to mention the new one coming up where you play a European who moves to Liberty City ....
Up until very rencently If I wanted a black avatar in any MMO whatsoever , I either had to play someone who looked like he had some kind of skin condition that made him darker than normal OR some kind of dark elf.
And you mentioned Nightfall one of the few MMOs with characters with "negroid" features, but you "FORGOT", to mention that you could already play a cacasin from the core game (6 choices for caucasins), and an asian from the first expansion Factions(2 choices for Asians).
There should be absolutely NO reason for you to feel disenfranchised because ONE game in a series does not let you play a caucasin when you have EVERY other game in the series.
What we are talking about here is merely cosmetic but has some politically correct issues interlaced. As I stated before MOST games that let you play a black character portray us as thugs or brainless muscle or outright ciminals (such as GTA). I can name on one hand the number of MMOs that let you play character that actually looks like a ethnic person and not just a really tan white person:
1) Nightfall - (part of Guildwars)
2) Everquest - (Eradites and they 'evolved' into blue aliens for Everquest 2, cant have the smartest race being black now can we?)
3) City of Heroes - (I love NCsoft )
4)Starwars Galaxy - (But somehow all the males who are black look like Billy D. Williams for some reason )
5) Matrix Online
And I REALLY don't think having Black or Asian or Hispanic or Eskimo characters will contradict the lore for two reasons:
1) The game is based around a bunch of minatures you can paint anyway you want...
2) Seeing that all the lor is based around point #1, it would be more hypocritical and against the whole Warhammer customazation ethic to not be able to have the skin tone you wanted !!!
So there , and one day I will get a web cam or a digital Camera and show you how my minitures of the empire are painted! And I have been in official tournoments and only one person ever complained, he was a Neo-Nazi and they threw him out for bad sportsmanship. Heck I was even congratulated by a Games Workshop official who loved my 'take' on the empire....
Don't say Eskimo, Tyfreaky, it's not PC.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
Quote "You missed the point a bit Arumahn... Yes you could not play a white guy in San Andreas, but you have FOUR (4) other Grand theft Auto's where you could play a caucasin... "
Yes except you obviously didnt read that I was talking about the latest GTA and the fact I didnt shun it because the main character wasnt white... I took it for what it was. A white guy in da hood is just unheard of, an incredible rarity... wouldnt you agree? If i was to walk through a predominantly back area in Africa or America... you can bet I'd be a new toy even if (it was eventually)... you think that the setting in a germanic empire in the darkest ages in human history (fabricated or otherwise) would be that much different? and no im not a racist im a realist.
And at your point that you can only play a caucasian in the other 3 GTA's... my answer would be to you would be... "so?"
Since that above quote didnt make sense... perhaps you can clarify what I dont understand?
quote "And you mentioned Nightfall one of the few MMOs with characters with "negroid" features, but you "FORGOT", to mention that you could already play a cacasin from the core game (6 choices for caucasins), and an asian from the first expansion Factions(2 choices for Asians). "
Where in my post, that you quoted, did I ever mention Nightfall? Where did I use "Negroid features"? And if nightfall is based in an environment somewhere in the middle east then surely it would make perfect sense to put these features in, as this is their homeland and kingdom as a scandinavian type environment is the homeland and kingdom of the nords. The time and attitude of that time dictates social tolerance and intolerance. The ages of Warhammer are quite dark and unforgiving.
Neither is the word 'black' , 'negroid" or 'white'. If we started getting politically correct in this thread, we would need congress to come in and clean up all our other post
Where is Don Imus when you need him? (KIDDING, that was a joke)
PS: The Negroid comment and the nightfall comment came from the poster directly abow( or below) Aurahman. Sorry if I lumped you together.
And dude where the heck do you come from? A rather large portion of people in the 'hood' (Gahhh Somenoe shoot me please.. I said the hood...) are caucasins and you would not look out of place. I met my two best friends (who happen to be white) at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore, and thats a Black collage...
Unfortunately poor and uneducated does not discriminate,,, there are plenty of white people in lower class urban neighborhood as well as plenty of profesional African Americans/hispanics in suburban neighborhoos...
"The streets are not a color..they are a mindset" - Eminim (Marshal Mathers)
And I am not calling for radical social change, I just want to play a fantasy game with somenoe who looks remotely like me, with other people in it.
To you guys its no big deal, just about every game has caucasian humans in it, and even if they are not human they still look pretty damn caucasin.
This is freaking Warhammer based on the minitures where you can customize your character anywayt you wish. If this was a straight history simulation of medival times I would not have an issue, but its freaky WARHAMMER with tentacles and PUDDING FROM THE SKY.... if having somenoe with brown skin and big lips is that big of an issue..... come on now...
I know people get serious about there lore, but come on this is a game based on a game to have fun, if I have more fun running around with a permanent super tan, how is that going to effect your emersion? I
Half of you are going to play a guy who has tenticles and will eventually turn into a giant chaos demon..
And yes it is a game, so why not throw in a little equality? Heck for some reason no body complains about being a criminal in GTA (black or white) equality is all well and good if your an imoral bastard? But I can't have a black guy that wants to fight for the empire? Sheesh
And believe me if they ever develop ZULU WARRIOR THE MMO, i will have no problem laughing at a white character running around in a grass skirt with a lip plate and a spear....
Good job Ty for speaking up and stating your peace. I know there's a lot of other brown skinned individuals (african/hispanic/indian) who share your frustration and despise the games who throw in the dark skin, but force you to keep the pointy nose and small lips. Believe me, seeing a dark skinned Witch Hunter with a round nose and full lips will be no worse (lore-wise) than seeing a female Ironbreaker.
This is not Everquest nor it is not our real world it is game based on Warhammer lore! I cant understand hysteria about white only empire. If the story says what is says we should live with that and not push our world into the game.
There should only be: Caucasian humans, pale Elves, rosey Dwarfs and green Greenskins in W.A.R at launch. (ie: no Blacks or Asians etc)
Not because it is or isn't racist, but because that's the way the Warhammer world is portrayed at launch. Lore first, real-world political correctness second.
Araby (dark-skinned people) and Cathay (Asians) can come and are most welcome later
Take a look at that map, see Norsca, thats where the Norse come from...
See the Chaos Wastes, which connect to basically everything. Thats where Chaos Tribes come from... They connect to Cathay, which built a massive wall to keep them out... Sound familiar.
Why you all seem to think Games Workshop are White Supremists is beyond me, they have always allowed any army to be painted with any skin colour.
They don't care and I very much doubt they will say "No Skin Tones" to Mythic.
Also if an Arabian Priest of Sigmar turned up to see the Arch-Elector, aslong as they can proove it and if they truly were they would be able too, they would prais Sigmar a heathen had seen the Light and they wouldn't kill him. If they did kill him it would be because he was pretending to be a priest.
You seem to be confusing the Empire with the Empire of Mankind from 40k.
Sigmarites allow the worship of other Gods, Ulric, Morr, the Goddess the Knights of the Blazing Sun worship. They also allow Dwarfs, Elves and heck even Ogres(aslong as they don't eat the wrong people), merchants from the South and East to wander around without butchering them while screamin "Bloody Foreigners"...
Yes except you obviously didnt read that I was talking about the latest GTA and the fact I didnt shun it because the main character wasnt white... I took it for what it was. A white guy in da hood is just unheard of, an incredible rarity... wouldnt you agree?
Um, I'm WHITE and I came from the Mill Hill in the South. Anyone who knows about the south knows what a mill hill is and it's a total ghetto. Gun shots, drive bys, drunks in the street. It doesn't matter what race you are. Sometimes, you just are born into stuff you can't help.
As for this game, quit playing the race card. I can't believe people are blowing the OP up into a racist thing. Where's a mod to close the threads on this site or are they all too busy with controllers in their hands..
Comments
Its called marketing, selling units in the west is where the money is... not hard logic really
Wrong Skippy... this trend is also prevalent in Anime and if you think Anime is REALLY aimed at us westerners than you are living on some other plane of existance, we usually get the 'good' Anime years after the show has stopped running in Japan.
Gundum, Cowboy beebop, Trigun, Narotu, Kenshi Ronin.... I could go on and on.
While your point makes sense, there culture really just does not care if a avatar is asian or not... Because if Shin Chan, and Inuasha are aimed at westerners...... then I need a new mindset... Heck avatar the last air bender is more 'asian' than just about any anime I ever saw, and that was made the the very American Nickolodean.
I know that Warhammer is based on old Germanic culture but where does it say that the description of the people has to match that of old germanic people?
Please give a quote or a reference: where it says that an Empire citizen is exclusively white skinned? Where the Chaos Gods insist that thier followers be Aryan?
Hmmm...come to think of it...female soldiers in a Renaissance German army?
Since some of you are pointing to real history...historically speaking, armies in desperate wars have a tendancy to relax thier views on the ethnic background, age, religon, and gender of thier fighting people. In WW2 even the nazis loosened thier philosophy on where SS men came from.
Here is a modern example of what I mean http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,102539,00.html
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
I see that most people here talking about this thing do not have any clue about Warhammer lore. I myself have been playing Warhammer tabletop games about 6 years now and read many books about lore and stuff. First I want make one thing clear. Black ocrs are not "black" like someone had implined. Evidence here http://ca.games-workshop.com/news/cn/articles/Soc_ca/jason/army.htm
Then into the main subject. Lets see Empire of Warhammer is based on medieval/renesaince Holy Roman Empire. In lore people of empire are often dercribded as white skinned folks. People of Empire are greatly xenophopic and paranoid. Even tiniest flawl is considered as a mutation. Example baby with one eye blue and other green could be killed because his parents thing that he/she is corrupted by chaos. Some people suggest that these xenophopic people would just cope with black skinned people that they normaly would keep as mutants? You could also tell me where would those black skinned people arrive to Empire from moon? There is not any mention in lore that i have encountered about dark skinned empire people. Some suggestted that they would come with Knight of Blazing Suns from Araby in crusades that since Knights found their god there. First of all God these Knights worship is Titelian god where people are also white. Humans of Old World also hate people of Araby because Araby invasion in Titelia and Estilia and crusades. Then people of Araby are not even "black" skinned that some here are driving after. They are rip off people of Middle-east also you really cannot blame Daoc of that you could not make pitch black Saracen because they are not that.
I want to take example of Guild Wars Nightfall. In that game you could not make totaly white skinned character. Since game was based in Middle-east/Africa. I did not see people rising in barricades that time and I dont see reason to do it now.
I know my english is not nearly good as I would like it to be since english is not my native language or even second. So please try make sense about my rant...
ps. You should be able to make "tanned" character but you should still be able to regonize that he is human from Old World. If my writing brokes some political correctness in U.S.A I am sorry. Here we can still speak about these thing without knives on our throat
Im sorry mate they will not be changing the lore to suit a modern day society, it would upset too many people who are already the warhammer fans. Are there black societies in warhammer... of course there are.. they are just not part of the Germanic Empire portrayed in the warhammer world nor are they part of the French-ish bretonia. It isnt meant as an insult, its just the way it is within their lore and to change it would be asking too much my friend. Age of conan are doing the same thing I hear... Robert E. Howard's work is taken to the letter and nothing is changed in the name of multiculturalism. Again im not being insulting its just the stance these people are taking to try to reproduce the environment the authors have created, and the following from these creations to be appeased... but please dont let this bother you, I'm sure it will be a great game reguardless. Who knows the empire of Nipon and the clans/tribes of the south could be added in later expansions as will Skaven and wood elves. I have no doubt they will.
Put it this way I still loved GTA: San Andreas even tho I couldnt play a white dude. The game was still cool.
and if its the "making a character to look like me" aspect... all i can say is to the people who are playing dwarves and orcs... Good luck with that.
In the meantime mate get some warhammer books they are so cool... Fel Cargo (pirates in the warhammer world) is awesome, the Malus Darkblade saga is also worth reading.... the list goes on. Please I urge you to read and understand how difficult it would be for them, become farmiliar with the lore and the environment created.
Peace :P
/Agreed...
1. The empire conqured many regions and tgribes of men what if one of then at say the edge of the empire bordering araby mixed witht he arabs [interbred]. This could create a empire bloodline with darker skintones and maybee even black skin [his parents were araby imagrants perhaps or his grandperants].
2. The empire hires a lot of mercenary units and merceneries come from all over the world. What if an expansion was released called Dogs of War.
Empire does not have common border or never had with Araby so that rules out your suggestion. There is actually quite long travel from Empire to Araby. http://www.warhammer.net/maps.php
About mercenaries that would be ok if there would be class that is mercenary. Classes we are going to be play are empire exclusive how could mercenary become warrior priest? Expansion about Dog of Wars would be another thing...
The beuty of it is that new mercenery types just for this game could be created and be ok to the lore of warhammer. For example an Araby version of a Battlepriest for example. It will be no worse than having female chosen or female dwarfs on the battlefield. Or even as bad as a female ork [shudders].
Didn't get the News? Chosen will be Male only, no Female playable.
Besides, it is officially stated that "Darker Skin Tones will be available", but if that means negroids, or just a tanned/latino look, noone knows.
Araby version of Sigmarite Warrior priest
Sigmarites would burn anyone who even would whisper about thing like that.
I think that they are doing it like in Daoc you can make tanned version from you character...
The only thing I found that suggests Empire is white is a paint by numbers model set that asks the painter to use dwarf skin paint with high elf skin paint for high lights, and that may have more to do with shipping costs than the WAR universe.
The race of the Empire is decribed as Human race and the race of Man in gamesworkshop...so no help there.
I have not read any of the books so I guess I gotta hand it over to those who have.
I just hope Orcs are closer to this colour and not this colour or this colour. Besides, I wouldn't worry too much about yer skin ya puny human since ya wont be wearing it for long. WAAAAGH!
"The liberties and resulting economic prosperity that YOU take for granted were granted by those "dead guys"
mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/screenshots/0607_SSt_01.jpg
I gotta say, all Empire Screenshots so far look very caucasian to me.
mythicmktg.fileburst.com/war/us/media/images/screenshots/20070515_ss_greenskins.jpg
And that's the Greenskin Colour, though it is said that Greenskins become darker in colour as they gain Tiers. (Btw: Note the terrific Shaman hat
Can't beat Shaman's style ^_^)
Some art work...
http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/artwork/1/
http://uk.games-workshop.com/empire/miniature-gallery/1/
Orcs range from this to even this...
http://uk.games-workshop.com/orcsandgoblins/artwork/1/
You missed the point a bit Arumahn... Yes you could not play a white guy in San Andreas, but you have FOUR (4) other Grand theft Auto's where you could play a caucasin... Not to mention the new one coming up where you play a European who moves to Liberty City ....
Up until very rencently If I wanted a black avatar in any MMO whatsoever , I either had to play someone who looked like he had some kind of skin condition that made him darker than normal OR some kind of dark elf.
And you mentioned Nightfall one of the few MMOs with characters with "negroid" features, but you "FORGOT", to mention that you could already play a cacasin from the core game (6 choices for caucasins), and an asian from the first expansion Factions(2 choices for Asians).
There should be absolutely NO reason for you to feel disenfranchised because ONE game in a series does not let you play a caucasin when you have EVERY other game in the series.
What we are talking about here is merely cosmetic but has some politically correct issues interlaced. As I stated before MOST games that let you play a black character portray us as thugs or brainless muscle or outright ciminals (such as GTA). I can name on one hand the number of MMOs that let you play character that actually looks like a ethnic person and not just a really tan white person:
1) Nightfall - (part of Guildwars)
2) Everquest - (Eradites and they 'evolved' into blue aliens for Everquest 2, cant have the smartest race being black now can we?)
3) City of Heroes - (I love NCsoft )
4)Starwars Galaxy - (But somehow all the males who are black look like Billy D. Williams for some reason
)
5) Matrix Online
And I REALLY don't think having Black or Asian or Hispanic or Eskimo characters will contradict the lore for two reasons:
1) The game is based around a bunch of minatures you can paint anyway you want...
2) Seeing that all the lor is based around point #1, it would be more hypocritical and against the whole Warhammer customazation ethic to not be able to have the skin tone you wanted !!!
So there
, and one day I will get a web cam or a digital Camera and show you how my minitures of the empire are painted! And I have been in official tournoments and only one person ever complained, he was a Neo-Nazi and they threw him out for bad sportsmanship. Heck I was even congratulated by a Games Workshop official who loved my 'take' on the empire....
Mythic has stated they are dedicated to maintaining lore (even though they have already fudged a bunch of things.. like no female Chosen ..grrr .. ) pure to the source material of Warhammer. In Warhammer .. the Empire is based on the real world germanic/prusian/central euro vibe in the middle ages. And within context of that setting it doesn't make sense to have non-caucasian skin tones. The source material art work confirms that viewpoint. I'm asian in real life and I don't feel they need nor do I want there to be asian skin tones.. just wont fit the game. Dwarves similarly are traditionally caucasian though usually darker more burnished skin tones. Chaos in general though I think may have a few darker skin tones .. though probably with a more inhuman flare. Only time will tell. It wont effect my opinion of the game either way .. if they add dark skin tones for folks thought I can only hope they will add appropriate facial options also .. or I would prefer they just don't.
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
Why is all of this such a fecking issue?
Are we trying to create social change, nay, social egalitarianism via a sodding GAME? Because that's all it is, you know; a bloody game. A game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a game, a g-a-fecking m, e. This is not some weird social experiment to see if a perfect PC world can be created. It can't. I understand if an individual wants to be a female greenskin, or female chosen, or paint Emperor Karl Franz yellow. Sure. We all are attracted to a sense of sameness; that is to say like attracts like. If you want to have a deeply brown skinned female inside of your chaos chosen armour, then I think you should have it. However, if the game does not allow for it that is not a social commentary. It's a bloody GAME!
If this were a MMORPG that was historically based, perhaps set in the Wars of the Roses, somebody would cry that they couldn't play a Ninja. And we'd all jump on them and smash them with lists of historical "facts" about the setting and the total lack on Ninjas in England at the time of the War of the Roses. Would the Ninja fan be correct to claim that a properly PC ROSESONLINE game include models and classes for his Asian concept?
Don't answer that. It is rhetorical.
I am not advocating racism, bigotry, or exclusion, nor am I advocating a separate but equal concept. I am also unequivocally NOT advocating a safe, happy PC world for WAR. There is already evident to anyone with eyes to read a huge amount of partisanship, racism, and violence...in game. If you are a die hard Greenskin fan then you have a certain sense of racial exclusion. Same for any other die hard fan base. As a game concept it makes for good battles. It's war, you know, not TEAPARTY! What a game that would be: In the violent online world there is only fannying about. TEAPARTY the new MMORPG from EA/Mythic. In TEAPARTY you accumulate points by gathering resources to have the best and largest teaparties while all of your opponents do the same. The dwarfs favour a robust and hearty black tea, while the elf is partial to a delicate white tea. The Empire is split, a holy war on the horizon: Earl Grey or Darjeeling. From the north come the forces of Chaos spouting their battle chants, "Java for the Joe-God!".
Doesn't sound like much fun to me.
In short, I want everyone to get what it is they want, and that just can't happen. I do not want this to turn into Dungeons and Dragons or WoW or any other game, I want it to be and stay Warhammer. Whatever that means.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
You missed the point a bit Arumahn... Yes you could not play a white guy in San Andreas, but you have FOUR (4) other Grand theft Auto's where you could play a caucasin... Not to mention the new one coming up where you play a European who moves to Liberty City ....
Up until very rencently If I wanted a black avatar in any MMO whatsoever , I either had to play someone who looked like he had some kind of skin condition that made him darker than normal OR some kind of dark elf.
And you mentioned Nightfall one of the few MMOs with characters with "negroid" features, but you "FORGOT", to mention that you could already play a cacasin from the core game (6 choices for caucasins), and an asian from the first expansion Factions(2 choices for Asians).
There should be absolutely NO reason for you to feel disenfranchised because ONE game in a series does not let you play a caucasin when you have EVERY other game in the series.
What we are talking about here is merely cosmetic but has some politically correct issues interlaced. As I stated before MOST games that let you play a black character portray us as thugs or brainless muscle or outright ciminals (such as GTA). I can name on one hand the number of MMOs that let you play character that actually looks like a ethnic person and not just a really tan white person:
1) Nightfall - (part of Guildwars)
2) Everquest - (Eradites and they 'evolved' into blue aliens for Everquest 2, cant have the smartest race being black now can we?)
3) City of Heroes - (I love NCsoft )
4)Starwars Galaxy - (But somehow all the males who are black look like Billy D. Williams for some reason
)
5) Matrix Online
And I REALLY don't think having Black or Asian or Hispanic or Eskimo characters will contradict the lore for two reasons:
1) The game is based around a bunch of minatures you can paint anyway you want...
2) Seeing that all the lor is based around point #1, it would be more hypocritical and against the whole Warhammer customazation ethic to not be able to have the skin tone you wanted !!!
So there
, and one day I will get a web cam or a digital Camera and show you how my minitures of the empire are painted! And I have been in official tournoments and only one person ever complained, he was a Neo-Nazi and they threw him out for bad sportsmanship. Heck I was even congratulated by a Games Workshop official who loved my 'take' on the empire....
Don't say Eskimo, Tyfreaky, it's not PC.
This situation calls for a judicious application of elemental psychology and extreme violence
@ Tyfreaky
Quote "You missed the point a bit Arumahn... Yes you could not play a white guy in San Andreas, but you have FOUR (4) other Grand theft Auto's where you could play a caucasin... "
Yes except you obviously didnt read that I was talking about the latest GTA and the fact I didnt shun it because the main character wasnt white... I took it for what it was. A white guy in da hood is just unheard of, an incredible rarity... wouldnt you agree? If i was to walk through a predominantly back area in Africa or America... you can bet I'd be a new toy even if (it was eventually)... you think that the setting in a germanic empire in the darkest ages in human history (fabricated or otherwise) would be that much different? and no im not a racist im a realist.
And at your point that you can only play a caucasian in the other 3 GTA's... my answer would be to you would be... "so?"
Since that above quote didnt make sense... perhaps you can clarify what I dont understand?
quote "And you mentioned Nightfall one of the few MMOs with characters with "negroid" features, but you "FORGOT", to mention that you could already play a cacasin from the core game (6 choices for caucasins), and an asian from the first expansion Factions(2 choices for Asians). "
Where in my post, that you quoted, did I ever mention Nightfall? Where did I use "Negroid features"? And if nightfall is based in an environment somewhere in the middle east then surely it would make perfect sense to put these features in, as this is their homeland and kingdom as a scandinavian type environment is the homeland and kingdom of the nords. The time and attitude of that time dictates social tolerance and intolerance. The ages of Warhammer are quite dark and unforgiving.
Neither is the word 'black' , 'negroid" or 'white'. If we started getting politically correct in this thread, we would need congress to come in and clean up all our other post
Where is Don Imus when you need him? (KIDDING, that was a joke)
PS: The Negroid comment and the nightfall comment came from the poster directly abow( or below) Aurahman. Sorry if I lumped you together.
And dude where the heck do you come from? A rather large portion of people in the 'hood' (Gahhh Somenoe shoot me please.. I said the hood...) are caucasins and you would not look out of place. I met my two best friends (who happen to be white) at the University of Maryland Eastern Shore, and thats a Black collage...
Unfortunately poor and uneducated does not discriminate,,, there are plenty of white people in lower class urban neighborhood as well as plenty of profesional African Americans/hispanics in suburban neighborhoos...
"The streets are not a color..they are a mindset" - Eminim (Marshal Mathers)
And I am not calling for radical social change, I just want to play a fantasy game with somenoe who looks remotely like me, with other people in it.
To you guys its no big deal, just about every game has caucasian humans in it, and even if they are not human they still look pretty damn caucasin.
This is freaking Warhammer based on the minitures where you can customize your character anywayt you wish. If this was a straight history simulation of medival times I would not have an issue, but its freaky WARHAMMER with tentacles and PUDDING FROM THE SKY.... if having somenoe with brown skin and big lips is that big of an issue..... come on now...
I know people get serious about there lore, but come on this is a game based on a game to have fun, if I have more fun running around with a permanent super tan, how is that going to effect your emersion? I
Half of you are going to play a guy who has tenticles and will eventually turn into a giant chaos demon..
And yes it is a game, so why not throw in a little equality? Heck for some reason no body complains about being a criminal in GTA (black or white) equality is all well and good if your an imoral bastard? But I can't have a black guy that wants to fight for the empire? Sheesh
And believe me if they ever develop ZULU WARRIOR THE MMO, i will have no problem laughing at a white character running around in a grass skirt with a lip plate and a spear....
Good job Ty for speaking up and stating your peace. I know there's a lot of other brown skinned individuals (african/hispanic/indian) who share your frustration and despise the games who throw in the dark skin, but force you to keep the pointy nose and small lips. Believe me, seeing a dark skinned Witch Hunter with a round nose and full lips will be no worse (lore-wise) than seeing a female Ironbreaker.
If it isn't in the Warhammer universe, then it should not be present in the game. That means no female Greenskins, no black Empire members, etc.
This is not Everquest nor it is not our real world it is game based on Warhammer lore! I cant understand hysteria about white only empire.
If the story says what is says we should live with that and not push our world into the game.
There should only be: Caucasian humans, pale Elves, rosey Dwarfs and green Greenskins in W.A.R at launch. (ie: no Blacks or Asians etc)
Not because it is or isn't racist, but because that's the way the Warhammer world is portrayed at launch. Lore first, real-world political correctness second.
Araby (dark-skinned people) and Cathay (Asians) can come and are most welcome later
Holy H Christ...
Anyway Chaos are not Norse you mooks, Norse are Norse...
http://www.warhammer.net/maps/World/WORLD3.JPG
Take a look at that map, see Norsca, thats where the Norse come from...
See the Chaos Wastes, which connect to basically everything. Thats where Chaos Tribes come from... They connect to Cathay, which built a massive wall to keep them out... Sound familiar.
Why you all seem to think Games Workshop are White Supremists is beyond me, they have always allowed any army to be painted with any skin colour.
They don't care and I very much doubt they will say "No Skin Tones" to Mythic.
Also if an Arabian Priest of Sigmar turned up to see the Arch-Elector, aslong as they can proove it and if they truly were they would be able too, they would prais Sigmar a heathen had seen the Light and they wouldn't kill him. If they did kill him it would be because he was pretending to be a priest.
You seem to be confusing the Empire with the Empire of Mankind from 40k.
Sigmarites allow the worship of other Gods, Ulric, Morr, the Goddess the Knights of the Blazing Sun worship. They also allow Dwarfs, Elves and heck even Ogres(aslong as they don't eat the wrong people), merchants from the South and East to wander around without butchering them while screamin "Bloody Foreigners"...
Um, I'm WHITE and I came from the Mill Hill in the South. Anyone who knows about the south knows what a mill hill is and it's a total ghetto. Gun shots, drive bys, drunks in the street. It doesn't matter what race you are. Sometimes, you just are born into stuff you can't help.
As for this game, quit playing the race card. I can't believe people are blowing the OP up into a racist thing. Where's a mod to close the threads on this site or are they all too busy with controllers in their hands..
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