This thread is magnificent. Such passion! I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you... stronger. To fire back on a couple of points. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. I only just joined with SOE as SWG CM in June. Beforehand, I honestly had no clue how well SWG was doing. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me.Oof, you got me there. I can't really give empirical data (or rebellious data, if you'll pardon the pun). Subscriber numbers are those sticky things that businesses don't usually give out (EA, NCSoft, Sony, etc). But from a person point of view, I can say that SWG is healthy and doing great, without any lying or creative truthiness.
Perhaps, but what's the growth ratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. Oof, got me again with the stats. Check out some of the high population servers, though. Compare and contrast. Go on, it won't hurt.
Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. We have been. All it takes is a cursory glance! Check out the official SWG site. You'll find new stuff being discussed about on the forums, the Senate program newly reinvigorated, the Village making a return, a bunch of new stuff in the works. Heroic encounters, the collections system, new quests... oodles of stuff! But, really, don't take my word for it. I wouldn't. I very well could be a corporate shill (there are a lot of 'em about). Log in, find out for yourself. Or, ask someone in-game already that you trust.
OK, since this is all about honesty here- GreyPawn let's have a little discussion. LA had talks with both Bioware and SOE about a SW mmorpg. Bioware was going for the Kotor timeline - SOE for post ROTJ. Bioware was given permission to start work on that mmorpg,since SOE dropped the ball already,but LA decided they didn't like the direction and canned it. They were then to go back into talks with SOE about their plan. Is this the truth? People can cry for sources,but GreyPawn knows all this,since it's true. OK since you know I'm truthful about this,how about the fact that MOST including the lead designer feel that the NGE is a joke? That the devs cannot stand NGE gameplay? That even the devs want an improved Precu that isn't NGE? How many devs have quit playing SWG due to the NGE? How many devs were about to get fired due to them not wanting and warning about the NGE and then getting put on the DC comics game instead? I would really like to enjoy this game again,but why should I in your honest opinion,when even those that work on the game itself do not enjoy it?
Good Questions.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Really good questions and I doubt that was him. But these questions should be addressed by SOE and most likely never will. I don't believe the KOTOR MMO rumors at all. I have to say over all the game is getting better since they ditched that moron Jules Torres. Serioulsy that wasn't him.
And guy/gals we won- the NGE was proven as a mistake to the suit and ties. Now take our game back.
This thread is magnificent. Such passion! I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you... stronger. To fire back on a couple of points. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. I only just joined with SOE as SWG CM in June. Beforehand, I honestly had no clue how well SWG was doing. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me.Oof, you got me there. I can't really give empirical data (or rebellious data, if you'll pardon the pun). Subscriber numbers are those sticky things that businesses don't usually give out (EA, NCSoft, Sony, etc). But from a person point of view, I can say that SWG is healthy and doing great, without any lying or creative truthiness.
Perhaps, but what's the growth ratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. Oof, got me again with the stats. Check out some of the high population servers, though. Compare and contrast. Go on, it won't hurt.
Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. We have been. All it takes is a cursory glance! Check out the official SWG site. You'll find new stuff being discussed about on the forums, the Senate program newly reinvigorated, the Village making a return, a bunch of new stuff in the works. Heroic encounters, the collections system, new quests... oodles of stuff! But, really, don't take my word for it. I wouldn't. I very well could be a corporate shill (there are a lot of 'em about). Log in, find out for yourself. Or, ask someone in-game already that you trust.
OK, since this is all about honesty here- GreyPawn let's have a little discussion. LA had talks with both Bioware and SOE about a SW mmorpg. Bioware was going for the Kotor timeline - SOE for post ROTJ. Bioware was given permission to start work on that mmorpg,since SOE dropped the ball already,but LA decided they didn't like the direction and canned it. They were then to go back into talks with SOE about their plan. Is this the truth? People can cry for sources,but GreyPawn knows all this,since it's true. OK since you know I'm truthful about this,how about the fact that MOST including the lead designer feel that the NGE is a joke? That the devs cannot stand NGE gameplay? That even the devs want an improved Precu that isn't NGE? How many devs have quit playing SWG due to the NGE? How many devs were about to get fired due to them not wanting and warning about the NGE and then getting put on the DC comics game instead? I would really like to enjoy this game again,but why should I in your honest opinion,when even those that work on the game itself do not enjoy it?
Good Questions.
Yeah like all good questions it will be answered with the standard NDA canned we dont know jack responses. They know they messed up anyone thinking otherwise has fanboi blinders on. No matter what they do the NGE isnt gonna generate the numbers they want. It had more players before all the changes not less like it has after each change we didnt ask for. My only question is knowing this why do they still presist on rebuilding a engine that isnt popular? Waisting more resources and money on a game not many want to play. Amazes me that SoE and company continue attempting to polish the NGE turd.
Give me options and the RPG parts back and ill resub in support. Incase you didnt know thats precu for the slow folks..
Originally posted by Dvol Originally posted by Wildcat84 SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot. All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware? THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
Amen!
It only took them 14 months to promise fixes for the NGE which wasnt suppose to be broke. Wasnt the NGE suppose to fix the CU? And the CU was to fix Precu? Amazing how each time failure and subs seem to go hand in hand. We all voted with our cancelations and disgust for each game change. I wont deny the NGE has improved, but when your at rock bottom time to go up. Still they dont get why there isnt thousands running back to the game. Most of us just got tired of it changing every publish and that trend continues today..
They have to change it every publish now, since bringing back pre NGE is their SOLE means of attracting or retaining anyone.
As I said, GreyPawn will be proven right or wrong by how much is invested into SWG.
ASSUMING for a moment that he's right, that the subs are way up, and say, back in the 100K range or so... SOE should be happy and want to keep it that way. If that is so, they would:
1. Increase the dev team size so they can bring more content into the game, speed up the implementation of CU2 in NGE (which has been what they have been doing) AND start talking expansion. If they got that kind of sub surge they'd be FOOLS to not do this since they'd be assured of losing them.
2. Invest money in fixing the severe deficiencies in the servers.
Since they are doing neither, I have to believe my source of 49.5K being the current sub number as being closer to accurate. At 49.5K subs and falling, with 25 old servers to maintain, I can see them cutting staff, slowing publishes, and laughing at anyone who suggests an expansion. Which seems to be exactly what is happening currently.
SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot. All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware? THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
And since when did having an increased Dev team ever go a significant way to additions to the game?
SWG used to have a 70 person Dev team, the biggest MMO dev team at the time. Yet content updates were no faster back then compared to what they are now. The majority of the publishes back with that 70 person team were bug "fixes." A major problem with these updates is that they were on such short development cycles that they weren't being tested and many times introduced more bugs and issues to the game then what they set out to fix. There were times that updates crashed the servers for an entire day. Content wise though, there was very little added to the game. Yes, we had the Corvette, DWB, Geocaves and the Warren added to the game but these were over a long period and were probably things that was already in development with the game but weren't completed in time for Launch.
Sounds to me like the NGE is still doing crap and $OE need to try and build up some reassurance for current players to stick around. Why make a statement like that with zero proof at all to back it up? I can easily say the game is in a worse state than even when NGE launched and have as much proof as he just gave. I can say only 10 people play on a certain server and have as much proof as he just gave to how great things are. People can say whatever they want but with no figures or facts to back it up, why say it? My guess would be to try to retain the current poor subscriber levels and not let it drop further.
actually i would have to disagree. The nge at birth was horrible and distasteful. I quit for 4 months about a year into it. I came back to swg about 5 months ago, and it has definitely made huge leaps and bounds. I am actually enjoying myself. And i hate to say this....but my little server of valcyn litterally exploded with life since chapter 5. Maybe its the space community here, since we have a very healthy one, and 3 or 4 very large guilds from ahazi and bria have moved over here.
While i can honestly say i do not know what other servers are like, since valcyn is my home since it came online, but the population has increased dramatically, and the gameplay and challenges have also improved. I used to be a devout hater of the NGE, but it has grown on me since blixtev and crew have taken over.
It's funny how every so often a post like this comes from SOE and it tells everyone how good the NGE is doing, that an expansion is due out in 6 months (Smedley himself said that over a year and a half ago) and so on... BUT, they won't give you subscription numbers... They just ask you to take THEIR word for it. The same SOE that spent 3 years telling its customers lie after lie... LMAO, if anyone believes a second of this CM's post then they are a glutton and deserve to hand over their time AND money to SOE. If SOE wants to PROVE something to people smart enough to know better, SHOW US THE NUMBERS. Other MMOs gladly show their subscription numbers, even if they aren't WoW-like. SOE used to show their numbers for this very game. All that changed as soon as the NGE hit... Hmmmm, wonder why? Sorry Community Manager, without sub numbers your post is a joke.
He's right, you know.
These people are pathological liars. You can't trust them to accurately assess the color of the sky.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
It's funny how every so often a post like this comes from SOE and it tells everyone how good the NGE is doing, that an expansion is due out in 6 months (Smedley himself said that over a year and a half ago) and so on... BUT, they won't give you subscription numbers... They just ask you to take THEIR word for it. The same SOE that spent 3 years telling its customers lie after lie... LMAO, if anyone believes a second of this CM's post then they are a glutton and deserve to hand over their time AND money to SOE. If SOE wants to PROVE something to people smart enough to know better, SHOW US THE NUMBERS. Other MMOs gladly show their subscription numbers, even if they aren't WoW-like. SOE used to show their numbers for this very game. All that changed as soon as the NGE hit... Hmmmm, wonder why? Sorry Community Manager, without sub numbers your post is a joke.
He's right, you know.
These people are pathological liars. You can't trust them to accurately assess the color of the sky.
Heh, and what reason is there to believe that you or anyone else who likes to go around and cry that the sky is falling on SWG aren't liers? It's quite easy to point fingers and call someone a lier...but can you really prove that they are? Do you have hard evidence that you can backup with numbers that they're lieing? Didn't think so...
It's funny how every so often a post like this comes from SOE and it tells everyone how good the NGE is doing, that an expansion is due out in 6 months (Smedley himself said that over a year and a half ago) and so on... BUT, they won't give you subscription numbers... They just ask you to take THEIR word for it. The same SOE that spent 3 years telling its customers lie after lie... LMAO, if anyone believes a second of this CM's post then they are a glutton and deserve to hand over their time AND money to SOE. If SOE wants to PROVE something to people smart enough to know better, SHOW US THE NUMBERS. Other MMOs gladly show their subscription numbers, even if they aren't WoW-like. SOE used to show their numbers for this very game. All that changed as soon as the NGE hit... Hmmmm, wonder why? Sorry Community Manager, without sub numbers your post is a joke.
He's right, you know.
These people are pathological liars. You can't trust them to accurately assess the color of the sky.
Heh, and what reason is there to believe that you or anyone else who likes to go around and cry that the sky is falling on SWG aren't liers? It's quite easy to point fingers and call someone a lier...but can you really prove that they are? Do you have hard evidence that you can backup with numbers that they're lieing? Didn't think so...
You are truly a brown nosed NGE fan if you believe that crap you just wrote. Why shouldn't SOE lie about the current numbers of subs? It's not like they haven't made a habit of lying to their customers in the past. " The CU is here to stay." " Jedi will not be a starting class. " Look familiar? Thought so...
First: You have to have been playing SWG at pre-cu SWG cause that sign on the left about Pre-CU Complex shows you havn't even played pre-cu or...lol you felt it was complex?? Grindy YES complex NO. Jedi starters prof??, again ignorance as you must have completly ignored the fact about all those cry baby's on the forums about how "hard" jedi was at pre-cu swg. It never bordered me nor did it border friends/guildmates of mine that Jedi was a long grind, it meant Jedi was not meant for everyone as it should have stayed, but unfortuanly just like these day's the NAYSAYERS and IGNORANT wanna-be-gamers still seem to have the loudest voice on forums tho i try my best to be outspoken in honosty. So Please stop pretending pre-cu swg was heaven cause they only "angles" that where around with pre-cu SWG where those truly enjoying the sandbox aspect and the community aspect of pre-cu-swg, sure there where already at that time Elitist that only needed the best of the best henc check old forums they cried aswell while most of use where enjoying hte game back then. So continues blaming CU or NGE is getting tired and beginning to sound like demented reaction from people unable to look at the bigger screen and not everyone has to like that bigger screen i know it took me a couple of years before i could let go of the past. Wish i realy wished some people would do the same or atleast try and be less ignarnat as a gamer espeicaly a MMORPG gamer as we still are hte nichy, and with behaviour like bring crap from the past all the time will not move this genre forward. That only shows that some only seem to want to remember the good times but seem to be unaware of what problems the game itself was already facing the minute it went live and even before it went live!!.
Are you a retard? I'm sorry but I just have to ask you cause your post really raises the question. Sarcasm. Look it up and then read the left hand side once more, champ.
SWG pre cu was too complex for the average gamer........Any game can be if people want it to be complex...... so SWG is no different, but in some small minds this must be it ...champ
Now play the game currently before you can make any statment about how the game is doing now. Like i said i couldn't get into SWG for many years mainly cause i myself was ignorant and didn't realy care about others then myself. And like i said that luckely changed, shame it didn't for some of you, you might even be missing out on some fun but then again with such a additude i see some wanna-be gamers have i wonder if they even capable of having fun, other then bring old crap up all the time cause that must be their type of fun i geusse, fact they don't like they mainly focussed on spreading lies, and lol some of them even say SOE is all about lie (well i wont deny SOE did his share of that) but recently the only ones i keep seeing lieyng is well.........we all know and see who they are now...
Originally posted by Obraik Originally posted by Wildcat84 SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot. All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware? THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
And since when did having an increased Dev team ever go a significant way to additions to the game? SWG used to have a 70 person Dev team, the biggest MMO dev team at the time. Yet content updates were no faster back then compared to what they are now. The majority of the publishes back with that 70 person team were bug "fixes." A major problem with these updates is that they were on such short development cycles that they weren't being tested and many times introduced more bugs and issues to the game then what they set out to fix. There were times that updates crashed the servers for an entire day. Content wise though, there was very little added to the game. Yes, we had the Corvette, DWB, Geocaves and the Warren added to the game but these were over a long period and were probably things that was already in development with the game but weren't completed in time for Launch. Quality > Quantity.
The 70 member Dev team didn't deliver fixes and content BECAUSE IT WAS BEING MISUSED. Most of it was engaged in writing expansions that half of which would go away 2 weeks after release (TOOW) and in writing new core systems for the game (CUNGE).
SWG's Dev resources have ALWAYS been grossly mismanaged.
Think of a classic resource management game like Sim City. If the SWG Dev team played Sim City, they'd spend all their time building roads that don't connect to anything, water pipes and power lines that don't connect to buildings OR the production plants, and they'd bulldoze whatever buildings sims happened to put up.
Really, nothing has changed. They are taking the game pre NGE incrementally because they were forced to not because they want to. The same idiots (Smed, Ward) who thought the NGE would actually achieve anything but the destruction of their reputations are STILL in charge, so if the game is being slightly better managed at the moment it's probably purely accidental on their part.
Are you a retard? I'm sorry but I just have to ask you cause your post really raises the question. Sarcasm. Look it up and then read the left hand side once more, champ.
SWG pre cu was too complex for the average gamer........Any game can be if people want it to be complex...... so SWG is no different, but in some small minds this must be it ...champ
Now play the game currently before you can make any statment about how the game is doing now. Like i said i couldn't get into SWG for many years mainly cause i myself was ignorant and didn't realy care about others then myself. And like i said that luckely changed, shame it didn't for some of you, you might even be missing out on some fun but then again with such a additude i see some wanna-be gamers have i wonder if they even capable of having fun, other then bring old crap up all the time cause that must be their type of fun i geusse, fact they don't like they mainly focussed on spreading lies, and lol some of them even say SOE is all about lie (well i wont deny SOE did his share of that) but recently the only ones i keep seeing lieyng is well.........we all know and see who they are now...
Nuff said
Do you work for SoE or something? Stop defending what they did to the game. Yes pre-CU had it's problems, all games have problems, however, at least people played it then. The game before you now is just a broken and lifeless shell of what it was or could have been. This game would have been one of the best MMORPG's ever made if they had concentrated their time and energy into making it better instead of attempting to make it like WoW. So just stop trying to defend what they did to the game. Consumer's do not and should not forget when a company burns them because once that happens it's liable to happen again. Go log in to SWG during any peak time and let me know if you run into more than 20 people outside of AFK's in a cantina or something. We have not forgotten about CU and NGE and SWG's subscrition numbers are showing it. Nuff said....
SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot.
All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware?
THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
And since when did having an increased Dev team ever go a significant way to additions to the game?
SWG used to have a 70 person Dev team, the biggest MMO dev team at the time. Yet content updates were no faster back then compared to what they are now. The majority of the publishes back with that 70 person team were bug "fixes." A major problem with these updates is that they were on such short development cycles that they weren't being tested and many times introduced more bugs and issues to the game then what they set out to fix. There were times that updates crashed the servers for an entire day. Content wise though, there was very little added to the game. Yes, we had the Corvette, DWB, Geocaves and the Warren added to the game but these were over a long period and were probably things that was already in development with the game but weren't completed in time for Launch.
Quality > Quantity.
The 70 member Dev team didn't deliver fixes and content BECAUSE IT WAS BEING MISUSED. Most of it was engaged in writing expansions that half of which would go away 2 weeks after release (TOOW) and in writing new core systems for the game (CUNGE).
SWG's Dev resources have ALWAYS been grossly mismanaged.
Think of a classic resource management game like Sim City. If the SWG Dev team played Sim City, they'd spend all their time building roads that don't connect to anything, water pipes and power lines that don't connect to buildings OR the production plants, and they'd bulldoze whatever buildings sims happened to put up.
Really, nothing has changed. They are taking the game pre NGE incrementally because they were forced to not because they want to. The same idiots (Smed, Ward) who thought the NGE would actually achieve anything but the destruction of their reputations are STILL in charge, so if the game is being slightly better managed at the moment it's probably purely accidental on their part.
I'm always amazed at your insight of the internal workings of the SWG dev team. I really just think you write down whatever you think sounds clever and press the Post button.
You can call it "accidental" as much as you like, the last years worth of publishes have been the highest quality SWG has ever seen. You haven't been playing SWG as long as I have, so I guess you can't appreciate how frustrating/nerve wracking going through all those publishes in the past could be I'm GLAD that publishes are more spread out and being held back for testing, it should have been this way from the beginning.
SWG isn't doing as well as it once did and never will again BECAUSE of the NGE. Is it doing better right now than it was a year ago? Sure. But that isn't saying a whole lot. All I can say is if there are suddenly tons more subs and SWG is suddenly LOTS more financially healthy, why isn't anyone seeing it in terms of increased development investment, an expansion, faster publishes, and improved server hardware? THAT is where the rubber meets the road. And it was pointing THAT out that got me a forum vacation courtesy of the new guy. If subs are up now, put the money where the subscribers are. SOE isn't. Why? Because the money (and hence subs) aren't there to fund it, and the game is in maintenance mode at best. If anything, investment has decreased (the speed of publishes has slowed over the last year to the point that it now takes 4 months to do one).
And since when did having an increased Dev team ever go a significant way to additions to the game? SWG used to have a 70 person Dev team, the biggest MMO dev team at the time. Yet content updates were no faster back then compared to what they are now. The majority of the publishes back with that 70 person team were bug "fixes." A major problem with these updates is that they were on such short development cycles that they weren't being tested and many times introduced more bugs and issues to the game then what they set out to fix. There were times that updates crashed the servers for an entire day. Content wise though, there was very little added to the game. Yes, we had the Corvette, DWB, Geocaves and the Warren added to the game but these were over a long period and were probably things that was already in development with the game but weren't completed in time for Launch. Quality > Quantity.
The 70 member Dev team didn't deliver fixes and content BECAUSE IT WAS BEING MISUSED. Most of it was engaged in writing expansions that half of which would go away 2 weeks after release (TOOW) and in writing new core systems for the game (CUNGE). SWG's Dev resources have ALWAYS been grossly mismanaged. Think of a classic resource management game like Sim City. If the SWG Dev team played Sim City, they'd spend all their time building roads that don't connect to anything, water pipes and power lines that don't connect to buildings OR the production plants, and they'd bulldoze whatever buildings sims happened to put up. Really, nothing has changed. They are taking the game pre NGE incrementally because they were forced to not because they want to. The same idiots (Smed, Ward) who thought the NGE would actually achieve anything but the destruction of their reputations are STILL in charge, so if the game is being slightly better managed at the moment it's probably purely accidental on their part.
I'm always amazed at your insight of the internal workings of the SWG dev team. I really just think you write down whatever you think sounds clever and press the Post button. You can call it "accidental" as much as you like, the last years worth of publishes have been the highest quality SWG has ever seen. You haven't been playing SWG as long as I have, so I guess you can't appreciate how frustrating/nerve wracking going through all those publishes in the past could be I'm GLAD that publishes are more spread out and being held back for testing, it should have been this way from the beginning.
I love how when you can't refute an argument you always resort to personal attacks.
The point of my post that you don't want to rebut is that the 70 person Dev team was NEVER dedicated completely to the live game. You probably didn't have a live team that was any larger than the current one. The majority of the 70 were working either on expansions or one counter productive projects (CUNGE).
Had Smed and Ward properly managed the resources SWG had (ie: have all 70 working on content, live publishes, and fixing bugs) clearly SWG would have FAR more subscribers today than it has and would inarguably be a better game. Also they could have done larger publishes more often that were higher quality than what we got.
SWG has been (and still is) mismanaged from the top down.
I'm not saying all the owners of those houses have active accounts, but they were active at some point in the last year for them to avoid being demolished. Even if they're not active now, that is quite a bit of money SWG has pulled in with subs over the last year. I also have to disagree with your comparison on Beast Master and Creature Handler. I've been both now and from my experience I have to say that Beast Master has much more complexity and depth to it then what CH had.
Obraik, you entire concept here is based on that fact that the house pack up does what it was claimed to do and functioned properly. I'm not saying you are wrong based on any facts, but keeping in mind who makes this game and their track record I feel safe to assume it doesn't work properly.
After all, people who haven't played in years arn't going to complain that their houses are gone if the pack up code doesn't work on them?
If swg is doing so good then why is it that all the people that I know who have either stayed behind or gone back have complained about the lack of people? These people actually like or tolerate the nge and defend swg on a regular basis but even they admit that the population is nowhere near what it was before the nge. And they are on a server (Intrepid) that was fairly well populated before. I checked out swg again a few months ago with the free vet trial thing and unless theres been some dramatic population increase since then, it is not doing as well as the fanbois will tell us. Check out the comment in the link about how the server is "deader than disco".
your ridicolous numbers are a joke Mr. GreyPawn compared to 8 million subs of
WoW . ANd your SWG "gameplay" to be honest is still crap.
I am happy i don't give you any of my money for your lies , but ofc. you will find the fool for.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
There's no lack of people on the swg server I am on (bria). But if you chose a low population server to play on thats not really SWG's fault. Unlike other mmo's they can't just up and merge servers at will, because that will mess up the housing something fierce.. they would need to remove all player placed buildings, then merge, else you will have conflicting placements. They need to come up with a good insentive to get people to willingly leave their server, or just force all buildings to be repacked (which would piss a lot of people off so they likely wouldn't do it, what after the nge fiasco)
As for sub numbers.. wow's 8 mil is certainly not a good benchmark to use to compare.. those numbers are unrealistic for most mmo's to aim for, especially mmo's that aren't crazy simple to play (like a lot of use prefer not to play)
well why not ? wasn't that the originally idea of Smed to reach WoW subs ? and for complexity lets do another NGE to simplify and get then the needed numbers/money :P
As for housing here is the solution, mark them as destroyable and allocate rewards for the player with the most destroyed buildings.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
your ridicolous numbers are a joke Mr. GreyPawn compared to 8 million subs of WoW . ANd your SWG "gameplay" to be honest is still crap. I am happy i don't give you any of my money for your lies , but ofc. you will find the fool for.
Any mmorpg as old as SWG number of subscribers are a joke compared to WoW !!Finding this comparison a bit odd.Hell even most recent mmorpg's are a joke in sub numbers and so will a lot of the bigger fututre mmorpgs.
I would love to see actuall numbers though.They never give them but if you claim to be a lot more healthy now , then you should back it up with subscription numbers of the last 2 years or more.
On a sidenote it's funny ro see many of the vets posting here on the current , while i remember not more then a few weeks/a month back there was a topic on the vet forum regarding people from the current section posting in the vets part.Most people who talked strongly bout it back then are the ones who are posting here now.Not saying you can't/shouldn't but it's a bit odd to post here if you felt strongly against people posting on your part of vet forum.
It's funny how every so often a post like this comes from SOE and it tells everyone how good the NGE is doing, that an expansion is due out in 6 months (Smedley himself said that over a year and a half ago) and so on... BUT, they won't give you subscription numbers... They just ask you to take THEIR word for it. The same SOE that spent 3 years telling its customers lie after lie... LMAO, if anyone believes a second of this CM's post then they are a glutton and deserve to hand over their time AND money to SOE. If SOE wants to PROVE something to people smart enough to know better, SHOW US THE NUMBERS. Other MMOs gladly show their subscription numbers, even if they aren't WoW-like. SOE used to show their numbers for this very game. All that changed as soon as the NGE hit... Hmmmm, wonder why? Sorry Community Manager, without sub numbers your post is a joke.
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
It's funny how every so often a post like this comes from SOE and it tells everyone how good the NGE is doing, that an expansion is due out in 6 months (Smedley himself said that over a year and a half ago) and so on... BUT, they won't give you subscription numbers... They just ask you to take THEIR word for it. The same SOE that spent 3 years telling its customers lie after lie... LMAO, if anyone believes a second of this CM's post then they are a glutton and deserve to hand over their time AND money to SOE. If SOE wants to PROVE something to people smart enough to know better, SHOW US THE NUMBERS. Other MMOs gladly show their subscription numbers, even if they aren't WoW-like. SOE used to show their numbers for this very game. All that changed as soon as the NGE hit... Hmmmm, wonder why? Sorry Community Manager, without sub numbers your post is a joke.
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
You will find that at leats on this site a lot of the ex-SOE community still feels about the NGE like it was yesterday.Look at any mmorpg SOE was involved in..is involved in or would be involved in in the future.
Go look at the vanguard forum...gods and heroes....look at the potbs forum ?You'll find at the potbs forum the number of posts in one single topic about SOE/FLS is incredibly high.
Question is not if i agree with the SOE-haters because i don't , but it's a fact that a lot of people feel verry..VERRY bad about SOE in general and the NGE is the trigger for that....this is something you should've known in advance btw in my point of view.
So the Community Manager do not like the NGE no more ? lol
well its the same crap with minor not substantiell changes the hit the community November 15 we all referred to as NGE.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
It's funny how every so often a post like this comes from SOE and it tells everyone how good the NGE is doing, that an expansion is due out in 6 months (Smedley himself said that over a year and a half ago) and so on... BUT, they won't give you subscription numbers... They just ask you to take THEIR word for it. The same SOE that spent 3 years telling its customers lie after lie... LMAO, if anyone believes a second of this CM's post then they are a glutton and deserve to hand over their time AND money to SOE. If SOE wants to PROVE something to people smart enough to know better, SHOW US THE NUMBERS. Other MMOs gladly show their subscription numbers, even if they aren't WoW-like. SOE used to show their numbers for this very game. All that changed as soon as the NGE hit... Hmmmm, wonder why? Sorry Community Manager, without sub numbers your post is a joke.
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
SOE used to give ballpark numbers too when swg first came out. Nothing specific but they did give rough numbers, something they haven't done in quite awhile tbh, even before nge. However, I would like to know how many subs swg has on its own and how many are tied up with Station Pass. Station Pass is a good deal if you like the games soe has. But it is like a life support system for soe's "weaker" titles like Matrix Online and Planetside and arguably Vanguard and swg.
As for referencing swg as the nge, from my experience on the vet trial a few months ago, which was fairly recent, swg has not changed a whole lot from when I left in Dec 2005. You may THINK a lot has changed but since you even admit to not even palying or having much knowledge about swg until recently theres no way you can know how similar or different swg is now compared to when the nge 1st came out. Besides, the history of swg is divided into pre-cu, cu and nge because each version was a very different game from the previous version.
As for swg being fun, I'll have to say I tried the nge swg and its not fun. Even Smedley has admitted to the nge being a failure. Care to put your PR spin on your own bosses claim of failure?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Comments
Good Questions.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Good Questions.
Yeah like all good questions it will be answered with the standard NDA canned we dont know jack responses. They know they messed up anyone thinking otherwise has fanboi blinders on. No matter what they do the NGE isnt gonna generate the numbers they want. It had more players before all the changes not less like it has after each change we didnt ask for. My only question is knowing this why do they still presist on rebuilding a engine that isnt popular? Waisting more resources and money on a game not many want to play. Amazes me that SoE and company continue attempting to polish the NGE turd.Give me options and the RPG parts back and ill resub in support. Incase you didnt know thats precu for the slow folks..
It only took them 14 months to promise fixes for the NGE which wasnt suppose to be broke. Wasnt the NGE suppose to fix the CU? And the CU was to fix Precu? Amazing how each time failure and subs seem to go hand in hand. We all voted with our cancelations and disgust for each game change. I wont deny the NGE has improved, but when your at rock bottom time to go up. Still they dont get why there isnt thousands running back to the game. Most of us just got tired of it changing every publish and that trend continues today..
They have to change it every publish now, since bringing back pre NGE is their SOLE means of attracting or retaining anyone.
As I said, GreyPawn will be proven right or wrong by how much is invested into SWG.
ASSUMING for a moment that he's right, that the subs are way up, and say, back in the 100K range or so... SOE should be happy and want to keep it that way. If that is so, they would:
1. Increase the dev team size so they can bring more content into the game, speed up the implementation of CU2 in NGE (which has been what they have been doing) AND start talking expansion. If they got that kind of sub surge they'd be FOOLS to not do this since they'd be assured of losing them.
2. Invest money in fixing the severe deficiencies in the servers.
Since they are doing neither, I have to believe my source of 49.5K being the current sub number as being closer to accurate. At 49.5K subs and falling, with 25 old servers to maintain, I can see them cutting staff, slowing publishes, and laughing at anyone who suggests an expansion. Which seems to be exactly what is happening currently.
SWG used to have a 70 person Dev team, the biggest MMO dev team at the time. Yet content updates were no faster back then compared to what they are now. The majority of the publishes back with that 70 person team were bug "fixes." A major problem with these updates is that they were on such short development cycles that they weren't being tested and many times introduced more bugs and issues to the game then what they set out to fix. There were times that updates crashed the servers for an entire day. Content wise though, there was very little added to the game. Yes, we had the Corvette, DWB, Geocaves and the Warren added to the game but these were over a long period and were probably things that was already in development with the game but weren't completed in time for Launch.
Quality > Quantity.
While i can honestly say i do not know what other servers are like, since valcyn is my home since it came online, but the population has increased dramatically, and the gameplay and challenges have also improved. I used to be a devout hater of the NGE, but it has grown on me since blixtev and crew have taken over.
He's right, you know.
These people are pathological liars. You can't trust them to accurately assess the color of the sky.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
i honestly would trust any company with telling the truth, 90% of the time it is not in their best interest
He's right, you know.
These people are pathological liars. You can't trust them to accurately assess the color of the sky.
Heh, and what reason is there to believe that you or anyone else who likes to go around and cry that the sky is falling on SWG aren't liers? It's quite easy to point fingers and call someone a lier...but can you really prove that they are? Do you have hard evidence that you can backup with numbers that they're lieing? Didn't think so...
He's right, you know.
These people are pathological liars. You can't trust them to accurately assess the color of the sky.
Heh, and what reason is there to believe that you or anyone else who likes to go around and cry that the sky is falling on SWG aren't liers? It's quite easy to point fingers and call someone a lier...but can you really prove that they are? Do you have hard evidence that you can backup with numbers that they're lieing? Didn't think so...
You are truly a brown nosed NGE fan if you believe that crap you just wrote. Why shouldn't SOE lie about the current numbers of subs? It's not like they haven't made a habit of lying to their customers in the past. " The CU is here to stay." " Jedi will not be a starting class. " Look familiar? Thought so...
First: You have to have been playing SWG at pre-cu SWG cause that sign on the left about Pre-CU Complex shows you havn't even played pre-cu or...lol you felt it was complex?? Grindy YES complex NO. Jedi starters prof??, again ignorance as you must have completly ignored the fact about all those cry baby's on the forums about how "hard" jedi was at pre-cu swg. It never bordered me nor did it border friends/guildmates of mine that Jedi was a long grind, it meant Jedi was not meant for everyone as it should have stayed, but unfortuanly just like these day's the NAYSAYERS and IGNORANT wanna-be-gamers still seem to have the loudest voice on forums tho i try my best to be outspoken in honosty. So Please stop pretending pre-cu swg was heaven cause they only "angles" that where around with pre-cu SWG where those truly enjoying the sandbox aspect and the community aspect of pre-cu-swg, sure there where already at that time Elitist that only needed the best of the best henc check old forums they cried aswell while most of use where enjoying hte game back then. So continues blaming CU or NGE is getting tired and beginning to sound like demented reaction from people unable to look at the bigger screen and not everyone has to like that bigger screen i know it took me a couple of years before i could let go of the past. Wish i realy wished some people would do the same or atleast try and be less ignarnat as a gamer espeicaly a MMORPG gamer as we still are hte nichy, and with behaviour like bring crap from the past all the time will not move this genre forward. That only shows that some only seem to want to remember the good times but seem to be unaware of what problems the game itself was already facing the minute it went live and even before it went live!!.
SWG pre cu was too complex for the average gamer........Any game can be if people want it to be complex...... so SWG is no different, but in some small minds this must be it ...champ
Now play the game currently before you can make any statment about how the game is doing now. Like i said i couldn't get into SWG for many years mainly cause i myself was ignorant and didn't realy care about others then myself. And like i said that luckely changed, shame it didn't for some of you, you might even be missing out on some fun but then again with such a additude i see some wanna-be gamers have i wonder if they even capable of having fun, other then bring old crap up all the time cause that must be their type of fun i geusse, fact they don't like they mainly focussed on spreading lies, and lol some of them even say SOE is all about lie (well i wont deny SOE did his share of that) but recently the only ones i keep seeing lieyng is well.........we all know and see who they are now...
Nuff said
SWG used to have a 70 person Dev team, the biggest MMO dev team at the time. Yet content updates were no faster back then compared to what they are now. The majority of the publishes back with that 70 person team were bug "fixes." A major problem with these updates is that they were on such short development cycles that they weren't being tested and many times introduced more bugs and issues to the game then what they set out to fix. There were times that updates crashed the servers for an entire day. Content wise though, there was very little added to the game. Yes, we had the Corvette, DWB, Geocaves and the Warren added to the game but these were over a long period and were probably things that was already in development with the game but weren't completed in time for Launch.
Quality > Quantity.
The 70 member Dev team didn't deliver fixes and content BECAUSE IT WAS BEING MISUSED. Most of it was engaged in writing expansions that half of which would go away 2 weeks after release (TOOW) and in writing new core systems for the game (CUNGE).
SWG's Dev resources have ALWAYS been grossly mismanaged.
Think of a classic resource management game like Sim City. If the SWG Dev team played Sim City, they'd spend all their time building roads that don't connect to anything, water pipes and power lines that don't connect to buildings OR the production plants, and they'd bulldoze whatever buildings sims happened to put up.
Really, nothing has changed. They are taking the game pre NGE incrementally because they were forced to not because they want to. The same idiots (Smed, Ward) who thought the NGE would actually achieve anything but the destruction of their reputations are STILL in charge, so if the game is being slightly better managed at the moment it's probably purely accidental on their part.
SWG pre cu was too complex for the average gamer........Any game can be if people want it to be complex...... so SWG is no different, but in some small minds this must be it ...champ
Now play the game currently before you can make any statment about how the game is doing now. Like i said i couldn't get into SWG for many years mainly cause i myself was ignorant and didn't realy care about others then myself. And like i said that luckely changed, shame it didn't for some of you, you might even be missing out on some fun but then again with such a additude i see some wanna-be gamers have i wonder if they even capable of having fun, other then bring old crap up all the time cause that must be their type of fun i geusse, fact they don't like they mainly focussed on spreading lies, and lol some of them even say SOE is all about lie (well i wont deny SOE did his share of that) but recently the only ones i keep seeing lieyng is well.........we all know and see who they are now...
Nuff said
Do you work for SoE or something? Stop defending what they did to the game. Yes pre-CU had it's problems, all games have problems, however, at least people played it then. The game before you now is just a broken and lifeless shell of what it was or could have been. This game would have been one of the best MMORPG's ever made if they had concentrated their time and energy into making it better instead of attempting to make it like WoW. So just stop trying to defend what they did to the game. Consumer's do not and should not forget when a company burns them because once that happens it's liable to happen again. Go log in to SWG during any peak time and let me know if you run into more than 20 people outside of AFK's in a cantina or something. We have not forgotten about CU and NGE and SWG's subscrition numbers are showing it. Nuff said....
SWG used to have a 70 person Dev team, the biggest MMO dev team at the time. Yet content updates were no faster back then compared to what they are now. The majority of the publishes back with that 70 person team were bug "fixes." A major problem with these updates is that they were on such short development cycles that they weren't being tested and many times introduced more bugs and issues to the game then what they set out to fix. There were times that updates crashed the servers for an entire day. Content wise though, there was very little added to the game. Yes, we had the Corvette, DWB, Geocaves and the Warren added to the game but these were over a long period and were probably things that was already in development with the game but weren't completed in time for Launch.
Quality > Quantity.
The 70 member Dev team didn't deliver fixes and content BECAUSE IT WAS BEING MISUSED. Most of it was engaged in writing expansions that half of which would go away 2 weeks after release (TOOW) and in writing new core systems for the game (CUNGE).
SWG's Dev resources have ALWAYS been grossly mismanaged.
Think of a classic resource management game like Sim City. If the SWG Dev team played Sim City, they'd spend all their time building roads that don't connect to anything, water pipes and power lines that don't connect to buildings OR the production plants, and they'd bulldoze whatever buildings sims happened to put up.
Really, nothing has changed. They are taking the game pre NGE incrementally because they were forced to not because they want to. The same idiots (Smed, Ward) who thought the NGE would actually achieve anything but the destruction of their reputations are STILL in charge, so if the game is being slightly better managed at the moment it's probably purely accidental on their part.
I'm always amazed at your insight of the internal workings of the SWG dev team. I really just think you write down whatever you think sounds clever and press the Post button.
You can call it "accidental" as much as you like, the last years worth of publishes have been the highest quality SWG has ever seen. You haven't been playing SWG as long as I have, so I guess you can't appreciate how frustrating/nerve wracking going through all those publishes in the past could be
I'm GLAD that publishes are more spread out and being held back for testing, it should have been this way from the beginning.
I love how when you can't refute an argument you always resort to personal attacks.
The point of my post that you don't want to rebut is that the 70 person Dev team was NEVER dedicated completely to the live game. You probably didn't have a live team that was any larger than the current one. The majority of the 70 were working either on expansions or one counter productive projects (CUNGE).
Had Smed and Ward properly managed the resources SWG had (ie: have all 70 working on content, live publishes, and fixing bugs) clearly SWG would have FAR more subscribers today than it has and would inarguably be a better game. Also they could have done larger publishes more often that were higher quality than what we got.
SWG has been (and still is) mismanaged from the top down.
Obraik, you entire concept here is based on that fact that the house pack up does what it was claimed to do and functioned properly. I'm not saying you are wrong based on any facts, but keeping in mind who makes this game and their track record I feel safe to assume it doesn't work properly.
After all, people who haven't played in years arn't going to complain that their houses are gone if the pack up code doesn't work on them?
If swg is doing so good then why is it that all the people that I know who have either stayed behind or gone back have complained about the lack of people? These people actually like or tolerate the nge and defend swg on a regular basis but even they admit that the population is nowhere near what it was before the nge. And they are on a server (Intrepid) that was fairly well populated before. I checked out swg again a few months ago with the free vet trial thing and unless theres been some dramatic population increase since then, it is not doing as well as the fanbois will tell us. Check out the comment in the link about how the server is "deader than disco".
intrepid.galaxyforums.com/index.php
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
your ridicolous numbers are a joke Mr. GreyPawn compared to 8 million subs of
WoW . ANd your SWG "gameplay" to be honest is still crap.
I am happy i don't give you any of my money for your lies , but ofc. you will find the fool for.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
There's no lack of people on the swg server I am on (bria). But if you chose a low population server to play on thats not really SWG's fault. Unlike other mmo's they can't just up and merge servers at will, because that will mess up the housing something fierce.. they would need to remove all player placed buildings, then merge, else you will have conflicting placements. They need to come up with a good insentive to get people to willingly leave their server, or just force all buildings to be repacked (which would piss a lot of people off so they likely wouldn't do it, what after the nge fiasco)
As for sub numbers.. wow's 8 mil is certainly not a good benchmark to use to compare.. those numbers are unrealistic for most mmo's to aim for, especially mmo's that aren't crazy simple to play (like a lot of use prefer not to play)
well why not ? wasn't that the originally idea of Smed to reach WoW subs ? and for complexity lets do another NGE to simplify and get then the needed numbers/money :P
As for housing here is the solution, mark them as destroyable and allocate rewards for the player with the most destroyed buildings.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Any mmorpg as old as SWG number of subscribers are a joke compared to WoW !!Finding this comparison a bit odd.Hell even most recent mmorpg's are a joke in sub numbers and so will a lot of the bigger fututre mmorpgs.
I would love to see actuall numbers though.They never give them but if you claim to be a lot more healthy now , then you should back it up with subscription numbers of the last 2 years or more.
On a sidenote it's funny ro see many of the vets posting here on the current , while i remember not more then a few weeks/a month back there was a topic on the vet forum regarding people from the current section posting in the vets part.Most people who talked strongly bout it back then are the ones who are posting here now.Not saying you can't/shouldn't but it's a bit odd to post here if you felt strongly against people posting on your part of vet forum.
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
You will find that at leats on this site a lot of the ex-SOE community still feels about the NGE like it was yesterday.Look at any mmorpg SOE was involved in..is involved in or would be involved in in the future.
Go look at the vanguard forum...gods and heroes....look at the potbs forum ?You'll find at the potbs forum the number of posts in one single topic about SOE/FLS is incredibly high.
Question is not if i agree with the SOE-haters because i don't , but it's a fact that a lot of people feel verry..VERRY bad about SOE in general and the NGE is the trigger for that....this is something you should've known in advance btw in my point of view.
So the Community Manager do not like the NGE no more ? lol
well its the same crap with minor not substantiell changes the hit the community November 15 we all referred to as NGE.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
SOE used to give ballpark numbers too when swg first came out. Nothing specific but they did give rough numbers, something they haven't done in quite awhile tbh, even before nge. However, I would like to know how many subs swg has on its own and how many are tied up with Station Pass. Station Pass is a good deal if you like the games soe has. But it is like a life support system for soe's "weaker" titles like Matrix Online and Planetside and arguably Vanguard and swg.
As for referencing swg as the nge, from my experience on the vet trial a few months ago, which was fairly recent, swg has not changed a whole lot from when I left in Dec 2005. You may THINK a lot has changed but since you even admit to not even palying or having much knowledge about swg until recently theres no way you can know how similar or different swg is now compared to when the nge 1st came out. Besides, the history of swg is divided into pre-cu, cu and nge because each version was a very different game from the previous version.
As for swg being fun, I'll have to say I tried the nge swg and its not fun. Even Smedley has admitted to the nge being a failure. Care to put your PR spin on your own bosses claim of failure?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.