The problem is people. This game has so many servers and so few people. That kills the ability to feel like you're in a living breathing MMO world, along with other things like people to do quests with, exchange items etc...
They can add all the great new code they want, but the one key sticking point for this game is the need for a server merge.
There are quite a number of folks at SOE who enjoy WoW, just as I'm sure there are some SWG and EQ2 players over at Blizzard. Gamers who are professionals in the industry don't stop playing games simply because they are competitors. We all love games, and most will pick up anything new that graces the shelves at the local EB. And sentimentality doesn't stop on the corporate mark either, as you'll note in the same breath that I mention my WoW account I mention my 9 year old UO account.
I agree with you on that innovation must be present in a game to attract folks, but I feel the biggest thing keeping people is the community. Community building tools like player-run cities and player-owned housing really go a long way towards keeping a community like SWG's solid and thriving.
The main reasons for SWG demise are:
Producers who didnt play the game. Hated the game. hated the people playing the game.
Designers who didnt play the game. Hated the game. Hated the people playing the game.
Developers who didnt play the game. Hated the game. hated the people playing the game.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
indeed, merge ALL servers forcefully would be great. But heres one problem,
What about the housing etc? say a guys house is located in the exact location as another guy in another server .... Hmmm... though im sure they can figure something out!
Played almost everything... Currently playing nothing... Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
Let me take my words back. Knowing SOE: SWG is DEAD SWG will remain DEAD Nothing can bring SWG back
So you just have to wait till a new Star Wars MMO comes out! AND I just hope the BioWare romour is correct. R.I.P SWG!
not true. There are a million things that could bring it back..that would bring all of us back and more. That would make us rabid fanbois of the game and the dev team. none of those things are allowed it seems. Too bad, i really like the current devs..but the game..not so much. I havent played in a long time though. The additions, er, things they brought back are nice and all, but its the direction of the game they need to change. LOL, ya spend years telling tme to stop changing directions, now that ya want em to, they wont. Funny and strange
.
See you in the dream.. The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Originally posted by GreyPawn As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. ... As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? ...
Until SOE/LAE provides some statistics with the state of SWG, the negative perception will remain.
Subscriber performance is low, of which Station Pass Holders and trial accounts help to keep the numbers up.
Additionally, the negative stigma of SWG, goes more than the NGE. There have been previous deceptions made, such as the Combat Revamp/Balance and Smuggler Revamp, that is just a couple, there are threads that go into more details.
When it comes to SWG, there is a lack of confidence and trust towards SOE and LAE.
That is a side effect when customers get burned.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
Nice try Wepps...
I work in the oil/gas industry on the legal side I can tell you for a fact that when a company is doing well with assets and its acquisitions then the Press Releases give solid specifics on sales and exploration numbers to their shareholders... When a company is doing poorly then it is a broad YET optimistic report to the shareholders...
The same thing SOE is doing right now. As G-Pawn said, it's the "uppers" who won't release the embarrassing subscription numbers to the public, and even still they most likely will include station passes as subs. Stop kidding yourself.
This thread is magnificent. Such passion! I can feel your anger. It gives you focus, makes you... stronger. To fire back on a couple of points. When you learned the truth??? So... they haven't told you anything for like 1½ year?? You can't give us numbers? Well, then your statement is irrelevant. I only just joined with SOE as SWG CM in June. Beforehand, I honestly had no clue how well SWG was doing. Another general statement without support of facts in any way. Making observations/statements without a minimum of empirical data to support your claim will at most get a chuckle out of me.Oof, you got me there. I can't really give empirical data (or rebellious data, if you'll pardon the pun). Subscriber numbers are those sticky things that businesses don't usually give out (EA, NCSoft, Sony, etc). But from a person point of view, I can say that SWG is healthy and doing great, without any lying or creative truthiness.
Perhaps, but what's the growth ratio? How long are you able to rettain new players and returning vets? No figures/stats = no credibility, sorry. Oof, got me again with the stats. Check out some of the high population servers, though. Compare and contrast. Go on, it won't hurt.
Lol, you guys been saying that for ages. There's lying and then there's lying with style and flamboyancy. The least you can do is to be abit more imaginative when you lie. Well, if there's such a vast body of conceptual ideas on the table then share it with us. We have been. All it takes is a cursory glance! Check out the official SWG site. You'll find new stuff being discussed about on the forums, the Senate program newly reinvigorated, the Village making a return, a bunch of new stuff in the works. Heroic encounters, the collections system, new quests... oodles of stuff! But, really, don't take my word for it. I wouldn't. I very well could be a corporate shill (there are a lot of 'em about). Log in, find out for yourself. Or, ask someone in-game already that you trust.
OK, since this is all about honesty here- GreyPawn let's have a little discussion. LA had talks with both Bioware and SOE about a SW mmorpg. Bioware was going for the Kotor timeline - SOE for post ROTJ. Bioware was given permission to start work on that mmorpg,since SOE dropped the ball already,but LA decided they didn't like the direction and canned it. They were then to go back into talks with SOE about their plan. Is this the truth? People can cry for sources,but GreyPawn knows all this,since it's true. OK since you know I'm truthful about this,how about the fact that MOST including the lead designer feel that the NGE is a joke? That the devs cannot stand NGE gameplay? That even the devs want an improved Precu that isn't NGE? How many devs have quit playing SWG due to the NGE? How many devs were about to get fired due to them not wanting and warning about the NGE and then getting put on the DC comics game instead? I would really like to enjoy this game again,but why should I in your honest opinion,when even those that work on the game itself do not enjoy it?
It's funny how every so often a post like this comes from SOE and it tells everyone how good the NGE is doing, that an expansion is due out in 6 months (Smedley himself said that over a year and a half ago) and so on... BUT, they won't give you subscription numbers... They just ask you to take THEIR word for it. The same SOE that spent 3 years telling its customers lie after lie... LMAO, if anyone believes a second of this CM's post then they are a glutton and deserve to hand over their time AND money to SOE. If SOE wants to PROVE something to people smart enough to know better, SHOW US THE NUMBERS. Other MMOs gladly show their subscription numbers, even if they aren't WoW-like. SOE used to show their numbers for this very game. All that changed as soon as the NGE hit... Hmmmm, wonder why? Sorry Community Manager, without sub numbers your post is a joke.
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
G-Pawn, I will be blunt with you...
I have tried other MMOs and they suck. I LOVED Pre-CU and even CU SWG, but the NGE made SWG the equivalent of every other crap MMO on the market. I was playing SWG as recently as late May when I cancelled again. I had a toon on Bloodfin (which is one of your most populated servers if not THE most populated).
I found it HARD to find other players, it was basically like paying to play a single-player RPG with poor content.
It's better than it was in November 0f 2005 but we all know that is saying almost nothing.
I keep re-subbing because I HOPE that SOE will return the game to a fun form but each time I am disappointed and stop playing after a short time of complete boredom. I love SWG but I really do not enjoy the restriction the NGE placed upon us.
It's like living in a Democratic nation for years then suddenly being under Communistic control. That about sums it up for 300,000 vets. You seem very intelligent so I will depart with this... (300,000 X $15) or (40,000 X $15). We don't want the Pre-CU in NGE form, we want Pre-CU.
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
Nice try Wepps...
I work in the oil/gas industry on the legal side I can tell you for a fact that when a company is doing well with assets and its acquisitions then the Press Releases give solid specifics on sales and exploration numbers to their shareholders... When a company is doing poorly then it is a broad YET optimistic report to the shareholders...
The same thing SOE is doing right now. As G-Pawn said, it's the "uppers" who won't release the embarrassing subscription numbers to the public, and even still they most likely will include station passes as subs. Stop kidding yourself.
I agree. The reason we know (roughly) how many people play WoW (supposedly 9 million or so) is because Blizzard has released to numbers to the public. You better believe if swg had 9 million soe would be letting us all know. Also, when swg 1st came out, I remember soe giving at least rough figures for swg.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Let them have their joy, they like to imagine the game is dead
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
Nice try Wepps...
I work in the oil/gas industry on the legal side I can tell you for a fact that when a company is doing well with assets and its acquisitions then the Press Releases give solid specifics on sales and exploration numbers to their shareholders... When a company is doing poorly then it is a broad YET optimistic report to the shareholders...
The same thing SOE is doing right now. As G-Pawn said, it's the "uppers" who won't release the embarrassing subscription numbers to the public, and even still they most likely will include station passes as subs. Stop kidding yourself.
I agree. The reason we know (roughly) how many people play WoW (supposedly 9 million or so) is because Blizzard has released to numbers to the public. You better believe if swg had 9 million soe would be letting us all know. Also, when swg 1st came out, I remember soe giving at least rough figures for swg.
If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers. I don't believe someone who is paid to tow the company line. As you said if SWG or any SOE game was doing so great they would at least give a ballpark figure or press release as they did in the past.
I'm not a Pre-CU lover (I thought it sucked) and I think the NGE was a good idea in theory. I have tried the free trial recently on a 6 month old Alienware laptop and the game is still completely horrible to me. When you compare it to games like WOW and COX it just doesn't compete in terms of polish/graphics/gameplay. I was thinking of trying it again so maybe I will post a review.
On a side note it seems the devs finally seem to be on the right track for what the current players want, but can't seem to get what the average gamer wants (which is why WOW is so successful). I would like to say nice job to GreyPawn who seems to do his job 100% better sofar than Thunderheart, who was completely useless. Personally I wish they would just put the game out of it's misery so hopefully a new Star Wars MMO can be made that isn't some sandbox type game and more about Star "Wars".
GreyPawn, DO you agree that NGE and CU killed SWG? Im sure the entire SOE knows this! Why cant they just make it as it was before, i dont think its going to be a problem!
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them. And! This isn't constant reassurance. That totally isn't my bag. This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. My style is much more to sneak up on unsuspecting "SWG IS DEAD! OMG! DEATH TO $0E!" threads and lines of thought and gently whisper "You know... actually..." and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
I find it amusing how so many forum warriors are fast to bash and attack SWG. I play on Bria and the population is booming with returning players and new players. I am talking about entire guilds coming back not just 1 or 2 people. My guild is extremly active in PvP and PvE and we regularly pull 30-50 EVERY night for PvP across the galaxy. From my point of view SWG is making a serious comeback. People I played with 2 and 3 years ago are coming back in droves and really enjoying the current system. Did I like Pre-Cu? Hell yes I did. Did Pre-CU have its share of bugs and problems? Hell yes it did. I also find it amusing how many look thru rose colored glasses about this Era of SWG. We all forget how much crying on the forums about bugs etc from that Era. It wasnt all flowers and candy. Did I like the CU? Hell ya I did. Again had its share of problems. Do I like the NGE? This question has 2 parts. First I cancelled the day they launched the NGE. At that point it was totally broken and the delivery of it was quite possibly borderline illiegal. I didnt retun to the game until APR 2006 when they put player bounties back into the game. Do I like the NGE now? Hell yes I do. I miss the old profession system but the game today could be the most complete version of the game. No matter what there will be a army of haters on the internet who want to drag everyone down into there miserable existance because they are still butthurt for losing there tripple slicedNS energy lance with uber mind fire. Myself and my guild are still here and growing. If you dont play and just come here and spew hate I feel sorry for you.
"Apart from the elephant in the room, name them. And! This isn't constant reassurance. That totally isn't my bag. This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. My style is much more to sneak up on unsuspecting "SWG IS DEAD! OMG! DEATH TO $0E!" threads and lines of thought and gently whisper "You know... actually..." and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion. Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
Well sure SWG has made significant progress since the release of the NGE but it's the direction the NGE has taken (and why it has gone that path) that so many are against, and as a Community Relations person I thought that would have been understood.
I was recently at ComicCon down in SanDiego. I was walking past some of the exhibits and when noticed someone playing SWG. "Oh gawd!" I said to myself "what the hell is that doin here". Well some guy from SOE or LA heard me and asked what i meant by that , and i told him how the game was a sad shell of its former self. He got noticeably offended and started saying how THE NUMBERS! THE NUMBERS!!! And when was the last time i played and its changed and all that. My wife and I started a few days after launch and continued till a few weeks before NGE, the game was already slipping by then and yes, it did need something. Did it need the NGE? Hell no, nge took a game that was sorely in need of bug fixes and balancing and crippled it. Since I've either resubbed or have done trials (the last time being about a month or two ago), just to see how things are "improving" and to be honest, and I'm not spewing hate, but the game is NOT improving. If they wanted to improve the game they woulda first fixed all that was and still is wrong, ie bugs and whatnot. As they say, " Ya can't polish a turd." And as far as calling us who think this game is in need of either a rollback or bringing the old system up to date, nothing but people spewing hate, well its not that at all. We just don't like people distorting the truth to lure people into a game that plays like a poorly done beta. Don't p*ss on my leg and tell me its raining.
I am a chef... Once I worked in a restaurant that was doing ok but declining... After some discussion we decided that... well, having a steak with bearneise and fries and normal lowclass french food aint exactly pulling the crowds in. So we decided to change the menu, quite drastically. So we started serving fresh italian food. It was a chock for our small gathering of regulars of course, but suddenly a lot of people, that before just watched through the window, came into the restaurant and tried our new menu. And well, it was a whole different concept but the new guests really liked it. Our old guests however were not so happy. They would sit in the bar and lament their old steak and their fries, wondering how we could be so cruel. We could do little more than shrug our shoulders and put on a sheepish smile. How could we explain that even if it was not a huge success and all the tables were filled each night, we still had a gathering of really nice costumers that enjoyed our food immensly, and given time, our old costumers would, if they only tried, notice that even if it wasnt a steak and fries, it was still pretty good food, just different. And thirdly... We had done steak and fries for a long time, it was fun to try something new, see where that would lead us.
It was not about ignoring our old costumers.. It was about not being static, not just passivelly watching a sinking ship go down slowly slowly slowly and do nothing. But to try something new, see what happens, and then take care of the new costumers to the best of our ability. Because we knew we did not serve bad food.. Just different
Of course, restaurants and games have very little in common so what do I know. I dont even play SWG. Beta 2 to release was enough for me. Not all things fit everyones taste, I can accept that, it does not mean someone else can't like it.
I know he's just the community relations dude but there seems to be a lot of people at SOE playing WoW. That's not neccessarily a bad thing, however their enjoyment of WoW seems to affect SWG and that I believe to be a negative thing. Raph Koster once descibed WoW (I can't remember the actual quote) as the best of the old style of MMO.
In contrast it's interesting to see someone else talk about whats neccessary for the future of MMO's as seen here. http://www.developmag.com/news/28186/MMO-design-has-not-changed-in-a-decade-Garriott I strongly believe that an MMO must be innovative (post-WoW era) to be successful. Otherwise a game will appeal to a fickle crowd who can and will leave on a whim (i.e. when the next fresh, new and exciting MMO is released). Passion for a game is what will maintain it's success for several years, and that kind of passion comes from a strong connection to the game and with your character.
There are quite a number of folks at SOE who enjoy WoW, just as I'm sure there are some SWG and EQ2 players over at Blizzard. Gamers who are professionals in the industry don't stop playing games simply because they are competitors. We all love games, and most will pick up anything new that graces the shelves at the local EB. And sentimentality doesn't stop on the corporate mark either, as you'll note in the same breath that I mention my WoW account I mention my 9 year old UO account.
I agree with you on that innovation must be present in a game to attract folks, but I feel the biggest thing keeping people is the community. Community building tools like player-run cities and player-owned housing really go a long way towards keeping a community like SWG's solid and thriving.
GreyPawn,
I thank you for your insight. However, what I was saying was SOE people playing Blizzard games is not necessarily a bad thing. It's the influece that WoW has made on the choice of direction by those same people. Can you tell me that WoW has not influenced the direction of SWG?
Secondly, yes the community is one of the biggest aspects to keep people playing and paying. Yes player housing and player cities are a big part of that, but these things are 3 1/2 to 4 years old. These things were brought into SWG under a different vision. What innovations has SOE made within SWG in the last 2 years?
I soooo respectfully agree. Thats why I am asking for a collision system, player apartments, new planets, and "new gameplay".. But SWG needs more staff to deliver the goods. You guys need more staff.
GreyPawn, DO you agree that NGE and CU killed SWG? Im sure the entire SOE knows this! Why cant they just make it as it was before, i dont think its going to be a problem!
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them. And! This isn't constant reassurance. That totally isn't my bag. This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. My style is much more to sneak up on unsuspecting "SWG IS DEAD! OMG! DEATH TO $0E!" threads and lines of thought and gently whisper "You know... actually..." and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
Eve Online, Second Life, LOTOR, Vanguard, WOW have all released some sort of numbers. What exactly is your definition of "doing well" and "thriving"? Those words can't really be used unless you are comparing them to something. I can say this terminal cancer patient is "doing well", but it doesn't mean anything. Is the game doing well compared to Auto Assault or COX? Is it thriving compared to WOW or DAOC? The President of your company stated that subs weren't doing well thus they needed NGE. Are subs doing well or thriving compared to the time when the NGE was needed?
The last official numbers from what I remember on SWG were 1 million boxes sold and 350k subs, when you were only allowed 1 slot per server and people were forced to have multiple accounts. That's something like 30% retention rate. Is that considered good in the MMO industry? Until you guys release some sort of hard numbers the opinion of many is that the game isn't doing well. Go into any other game or gaming forum and mention SWG and see the responses you get.
Healthy games have expansions and new content added. SWG hasn't had an expansion in almost 2 years? and all of the content I see being added is revamping something that existed before. To me that means the game is being run on a skeleton crew and there isn't any new money being put into it.
I do applaud you for at least coming here and posting unlike your predecessor or any other SOE employee. It's just a shame you're paid to market the Gigli of MMO's.
GreyPawn, DO you agree that NGE and CU killed SWG? Im sure the entire SOE knows this! Why cant they just make it as it was before, i dont think its going to be a problem!
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them.
Eve always tells ya how many are online at one time. Its meant to be a small game too. So SWG is doing so well it can announce its numbers not including station pass then?
I am a chef... Once I worked in a restaurant that was doing ok but declining... After some discussion we decided that... well, having a steak with bearneise and fries and normal lowclass french food aint exactly pulling the crowds in. So we decided to change the menu, quite drastically. So we started serving fresh italian food. It was a chock for our small gathering of regulars of course, but suddenly a lot of people, that before just watched through the window, came into the restaurant and tried our new menu. And well, it was a whole different concept but the new guests really liked it. Our old guests however were not so happy. They would sit in the bar and lament their old steak and their fries, wondering how we could be so cruel. We could do little more than shrug our shoulders and put on a sheepish smile. How could we explain that even if it was not a huge success and all the tables were filled each night, we still had a gathering of really nice costumers that enjoyed our food immensly, and given time, our old costumers would, if they only tried, notice that even if it wasnt a steak and fries, it was still pretty good food, just different. And thirdly... We had done steak and fries for a long time, it was fun to try something new, see where that would lead us. It was not about ignoring our old costumers.. It was about not being static, not just passivelly watching a sinking ship go down slowly slowly slowly and do nothing. But to try something new, see what happens, and then take care of the new costumers to the best of our ability. Because we knew we did not serve bad food.. Just different Of course, restaurants and games have very little in common so what do I know. I dont even play SWG. Beta 2 to release was enough for me. Not all things fit everyones taste, I can accept that, it does not mean someone else can't like it. *Ducks for cover behind a table*
I totally agree with you, I was never a big fan of the old game and neither was my guild thus we all quit. But when you change the menu to get new customers to italian food you don't give them egg noodles with ketchup and dirty forks. If you want to draw in customers you give them the best possible service and food you can to draw them in and keep them. I think the NGE was a good idea but the condition and manner it was rolled out in were totally unacceptable. It was barely a beta version of a game and they charged people money for it.
Heres a question id really like answered. Don't know if its been answered anywhere else, but its relevant and im sure GP could help us all out.
How many people are on the dev team for SWG now? And are they a permanent team? How many designers, how many coders, animators, modelers, level designers. I'm sure if the game is doing so well then there must be an ample staff.
GreyPawn, DO you agree that NGE and CU killed SWG? Im sure the entire SOE knows this! Why cant they just make it as it was before, i dont think its going to be a problem!
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
...This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. ...and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
I get the impression that were not on the same page. Sidestepping and half-truths are exactly what's pushed too many players away from SWG, and other SOE games. The lack of honesty and empirical data only exemplifies the distrust many have.
This mystical "golden age" as you put it is concerning. It's an attempt to discredit any view regarding any disastisfaction, we might as well say everyone who doesn't like the current game is on drugs.
The best statement is it's what you make of it. Complete truth! If one wishes to enjoy the game they'll do anything in their power to maintain that. This is part of the reason why the ~250k subscribers who left continue to voice their views and express their opinions through abstention of SOE products; brand loyalty is a bitch! You can paint a turd gold, but it's still a turd.
I'm a Glass-is-Half-Full kind of person. I am glad some people can find enjoyment in the direction SWG has taken of recent; we all know it's impossible to get worse then the "nge".
The only way to secure subscribers is to come out in the open with hard facts. SOE has lost ALL credibility and there's little that can be done to restore it.
p.s. distrust in Sony spans across all avenues and not just in their SOE gaming division, albeit the latter has only given cause to reason.
GreyPawn, DO you agree that NGE and CU killed SWG? Im sure the entire SOE knows this! Why cant they just make it as it was before, i dont think its going to be a problem!
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them. And! This isn't constant reassurance. That totally isn't my bag. This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. My style is much more to sneak up on unsuspecting "SWG IS DEAD! OMG! DEATH TO $0E!" threads and lines of thought and gently whisper "You know... actually..." and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
Where your argument breaks down is soe used to release rough numbers for swg. As soon as the population started to go down they stopped. Anything you say regarding how great swg is doing now population wise has to be take with a grain of salt because of soe's history of blatant lying to and misleading its customers. Sorry, I'm sure your a nice guy and all, but after being burnt so many times by soe and the lies they've told to their customers I don't believe a word you say without any proof.
And apart from WoW, I do believe Guild Wars has released their numbers, which was 1 million. Though to be fair, Guild Wars has a different subscription model.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
As long as you keep in mind that GrewPawn's job is essentially the same as Tony Snow's, to tell everybody how great his bosses' policies are working out, no matter what 98% of the people not employed by his bosses say and what any objective evidence suggests, then you'll be a lot more comfortable with his posts.
He's a P.R. spinner, not a source of objective information. Keep your bag of salt handy, you'll need to set aside a pinch for every one of his posts.
Comments
GreyPawn, DO you agree that NGE and CU killed SWG?
Im sure the entire SOE knows this! Why cant they just make it as it was before, i dont think its going to be a problem!
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
The problem is people. This game has so many servers and so few people. That kills the ability to feel like you're in a living breathing MMO world, along with other things like people to do quests with, exchange items etc...
They can add all the great new code they want, but the one key sticking point for this game is the need for a server merge.
Producers who didnt play the game. Hated the game. hated the people playing the game.
Designers who didnt play the game. Hated the game. Hated the people playing the game.
Developers who didnt play the game. Hated the game. hated the people playing the game.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
indeed, merge ALL servers forcefully would be great. But heres one problem,
What about the housing etc? say a guys house is located in the exact location as another guy in another server .... Hmmm... though im sure they can figure something out!
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
Let me take my words back.
Knowing SOE:
SWG is DEAD
SWG will remain DEAD
Nothing can bring SWG back
So you just have to wait till a new Star Wars MMO comes out! AND I just hope the BioWare romour is correct.
R.I.P SWG!
Played almost everything...
Currently playing nothing...
Waiting for: Darkfall, WAR, Guild Wars 2.
not true. There are a million things that could bring it back..that would bring all of us back and more. That would make us rabid fanbois of the game and the dev team. none of those things are allowed it seems. Too bad, i really like the current devs..but the game..not so much. I havent played in a long time though. The additions, er, things they brought back are nice and all, but its the direction of the game they need to change. LOL, ya spend years telling tme to stop changing directions, now that ya want em to, they wont. Funny and strange
.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Subscriber performance is low, of which Station Pass Holders and trial accounts help to keep the numbers up.
Additionally, the negative stigma of SWG, goes more than the NGE. There have been previous deceptions made, such as the Combat Revamp/Balance and Smuggler Revamp, that is just a couple, there are threads that go into more details.
When it comes to SWG, there is a lack of confidence and trust towards SOE and LAE.
That is a side effect when customers get burned.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
Nice try Wepps...
I work in the oil/gas industry on the legal side I can tell you for a fact that when a company is doing well with assets and its acquisitions then the Press Releases give solid specifics on sales and exploration numbers to their shareholders... When a company is doing poorly then it is a broad YET optimistic report to the shareholders...
The same thing SOE is doing right now. As G-Pawn said, it's the "uppers" who won't release the embarrassing subscription numbers to the public, and even still they most likely will include station passes as subs. Stop kidding yourself.
Wowzers... Pretty straight to the point.
As I mentioned, very few folks (apart from WoW) release actual subscriber numbers. The numbers you do see are usually ballpark estimates, like from mmochart.com and other places. I would absolutely love to prove my point about SWG doing alright with numbers, but that's a decision for the uppers. I do put the challenge again to you to log in and see, though. That's generally the best way to prove me right or wrong, either way.
As an aside, I've seen a lot of posts referencing SWG as "the NGE". You do know that NGE happened 2 years ago, right? There have actually been a few changes since then... I'm not saying I don't respect your passion or willingness to beat a dead horse (which is always fun!), but it was two years ago. Quite a bit has happened in two years. And again, really, don't take my word for it. I'm merely the messenger boy. Check it out for yourself and give it a go. You might actually have fun.
G-Pawn, I will be blunt with you...
I have tried other MMOs and they suck. I LOVED Pre-CU and even CU SWG, but the NGE made SWG the equivalent of every other crap MMO on the market. I was playing SWG as recently as late May when I cancelled again. I had a toon on Bloodfin (which is one of your most populated servers if not THE most populated).
I found it HARD to find other players, it was basically like paying to play a single-player RPG with poor content.
It's better than it was in November 0f 2005 but we all know that is saying almost nothing.
I keep re-subbing because I HOPE that SOE will return the game to a fun form but each time I am disappointed and stop playing after a short time of complete boredom. I love SWG but I really do not enjoy the restriction the NGE placed upon us.
It's like living in a Democratic nation for years then suddenly being under Communistic control. That about sums it up for 300,000 vets. You seem very intelligent so I will depart with this... (300,000 X $15) or (40,000 X $15). We don't want the Pre-CU in NGE form, we want Pre-CU.
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
Nice try Wepps...
I work in the oil/gas industry on the legal side I can tell you for a fact that when a company is doing well with assets and its acquisitions then the Press Releases give solid specifics on sales and exploration numbers to their shareholders... When a company is doing poorly then it is a broad YET optimistic report to the shareholders...
The same thing SOE is doing right now. As G-Pawn said, it's the "uppers" who won't release the embarrassing subscription numbers to the public, and even still they most likely will include station passes as subs. Stop kidding yourself.
I agree. The reason we know (roughly) how many people play WoW (supposedly 9 million or so) is because Blizzard has released to numbers to the public. You better believe if swg had 9 million soe would be letting us all know. Also, when swg 1st came out, I remember soe giving at least rough figures for swg.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
I think you missed his point there, Mr. "True Vet".
SOE has never given exact numbers, not since they were bragging about 300K active subs in 2003. Since then, all we've gotten are comments about how the population is doing relative to the time immediately before. Thing like "numbers are down after the launch of the CU" or "numbers are down since the launch of the NGE".
The entire concept of the NGE is an admitted failure from Smedley himself. So at best, what GreyPawn is telling us is that subs are up from what's essentially rock bottom for SOE. This is like George W. Bush looking at his approval rating in the low 30% range and being excited because it's up out of the high 20% range.
If they weren't ashamed of their sub numbers, they'd publish them, not just speak about them in vague terms.
Not atall, it's standard business practice not to give specifics, you don't see two major oil companies comparing how many barrels of oil they sell a year. SOE knows what they're doing.
Nice try Wepps...
I work in the oil/gas industry on the legal side I can tell you for a fact that when a company is doing well with assets and its acquisitions then the Press Releases give solid specifics on sales and exploration numbers to their shareholders... When a company is doing poorly then it is a broad YET optimistic report to the shareholders...
The same thing SOE is doing right now. As G-Pawn said, it's the "uppers" who won't release the embarrassing subscription numbers to the public, and even still they most likely will include station passes as subs. Stop kidding yourself.
I agree. The reason we know (roughly) how many people play WoW (supposedly 9 million or so) is because Blizzard has released to numbers to the public. You better believe if swg had 9 million soe would be letting us all know. Also, when swg 1st came out, I remember soe giving at least rough figures for swg.
If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers. I don't believe someone who is paid to tow the company line. As you said if SWG or any SOE game was doing so great they would at least give a ballpark figure or press release as they did in the past.I'm not a Pre-CU lover (I thought it sucked) and I think the NGE was a good idea in theory. I have tried the free trial recently on a 6 month old Alienware laptop and the game is still completely horrible to me. When you compare it to games like WOW and COX it just doesn't compete in terms of polish/graphics/gameplay. I was thinking of trying it again so maybe I will post a review.
On a side note it seems the devs finally seem to be on the right track for what the current players want, but can't seem to get what the average gamer wants (which is why WOW is so successful). I would like to say nice job to GreyPawn who seems to do his job 100% better sofar than Thunderheart, who was completely useless. Personally I wish they would just put the game out of it's misery so hopefully a new Star Wars MMO can be made that isn't some sandbox type game and more about Star "Wars".
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them. And! This isn't constant reassurance. That totally isn't my bag. This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. My style is much more to sneak up on unsuspecting "SWG IS DEAD! OMG! DEATH TO $0E!" threads and lines of thought and gently whisper "You know... actually..." and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
I find it amusing how so many forum warriors are fast to bash and attack SWG. I play on Bria and the population is booming with returning players and new players. I am talking about entire guilds coming back not just 1 or 2 people. My guild is extremly active in PvP and PvE and we regularly pull 30-50 EVERY night for PvP across the galaxy. From my point of view SWG is making a serious comeback. People I played with 2 and 3 years ago are coming back in droves and really enjoying the current system. Did I like Pre-Cu? Hell yes I did. Did Pre-CU have its share of bugs and problems? Hell yes it did. I also find it amusing how many look thru rose colored glasses about this Era of SWG. We all forget how much crying on the forums about bugs etc from that Era. It wasnt all flowers and candy. Did I like the CU? Hell ya I did. Again had its share of problems. Do I like the NGE? This question has 2 parts. First I cancelled the day they launched the NGE. At that point it was totally broken and the delivery of it was quite possibly borderline illiegal. I didnt retun to the game until APR 2006 when they put player bounties back into the game. Do I like the NGE now? Hell yes I do. I miss the old profession system but the game today could be the most complete version of the game. No matter what there will be a army of haters on the internet who want to drag everyone down into there miserable existance because they are still butthurt for losing there tripple slicedNS energy lance with uber mind fire. Myself and my guild are still here and growing. If you dont play and just come here and spew hate I feel sorry for you.
Well sure SWG has made significant progress since the release of the NGE but it's the direction the NGE has taken (and why it has gone that path) that so many are against, and as a Community Relations person I thought that would have been understood.
I was recently at ComicCon down in SanDiego. I was walking past some of the exhibits and when noticed someone playing SWG. "Oh gawd!" I said to myself "what the hell is that doin here". Well some guy from SOE or LA heard me and asked what i meant by that , and i told him how the game was a sad shell of its former self. He got noticeably offended and started saying how THE NUMBERS! THE NUMBERS!!! And when was the last time i played and its changed and all that. My wife and I started a few days after launch and continued till a few weeks before NGE, the game was already slipping by then and yes, it did need something. Did it need the NGE? Hell no, nge took a game that was sorely in need of bug fixes and balancing and crippled it. Since I've either resubbed or have done trials (the last time being about a month or two ago), just to see how things are "improving" and to be honest, and I'm not spewing hate, but the game is NOT improving. If they wanted to improve the game they woulda first fixed all that was and still is wrong, ie bugs and whatnot. As they say, " Ya can't polish a turd." And as far as calling us who think this game is in need of either a rollback or bringing the old system up to date, nothing but people spewing hate, well its not that at all. We just don't like people distorting the truth to lure people into a game that plays like a poorly done beta. Don't p*ss on my leg and tell me its raining.
I am a chef... Once I worked in a restaurant that was doing ok but declining... After some discussion we decided that... well, having a steak with bearneise and fries and normal lowclass french food aint exactly pulling the crowds in. So we decided to change the menu, quite drastically. So we started serving fresh italian food. It was a chock for our small gathering of regulars of course, but suddenly a lot of people, that before just watched through the window, came into the restaurant and tried our new menu. And well, it was a whole different concept but the new guests really liked it. Our old guests however were not so happy. They would sit in the bar and lament their old steak and their fries, wondering how we could be so cruel. We could do little more than shrug our shoulders and put on a sheepish smile. How could we explain that even if it was not a huge success and all the tables were filled each night, we still had a gathering of really nice costumers that enjoyed our food immensly, and given time, our old costumers would, if they only tried, notice that even if it wasnt a steak and fries, it was still pretty good food, just different. And thirdly... We had done steak and fries for a long time, it was fun to try something new, see where that would lead us.
It was not about ignoring our old costumers.. It was about not being static, not just passivelly watching a sinking ship go down slowly slowly slowly and do nothing. But to try something new, see what happens, and then take care of the new costumers to the best of our ability. Because we knew we did not serve bad food.. Just different
Of course, restaurants and games have very little in common so what do I know. I dont even play SWG.
Beta 2 to release was enough for me. Not all things fit everyones taste, I can accept that, it does not mean someone else can't like it.
*Ducks for cover behind a table*
___________________________________________________
Anatomy of a Fanboi
This is you.
I agree with you on that innovation must be present in a game to attract folks, but I feel the biggest thing keeping people is the community. Community building tools like player-run cities and player-owned housing really go a long way towards keeping a community like SWG's solid and thriving.
GreyPawn,
I thank you for your insight. However, what I was saying was SOE people playing Blizzard games is not necessarily a bad thing. It's the influece that WoW has made on the choice of direction by those same people. Can you tell me that WoW has not influenced the direction of SWG?
Secondly, yes the community is one of the biggest aspects to keep people playing and paying. Yes player housing and player cities are a big part of that, but these things are 3 1/2 to 4 years old. These things were brought into SWG under a different vision. What innovations has SOE made within SWG in the last 2 years?
I soooo respectfully agree. Thats why I am asking for a collision system, player apartments, new planets, and "new gameplay".. But SWG needs more staff to deliver the goods. You guys need more staff.
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them. And! This isn't constant reassurance. That totally isn't my bag. This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. My style is much more to sneak up on unsuspecting "SWG IS DEAD! OMG! DEATH TO $0E!" threads and lines of thought and gently whisper "You know... actually..." and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
Eve Online, Second Life, LOTOR, Vanguard, WOW have all released some sort of numbers. What exactly is your definition of "doing well" and "thriving"? Those words can't really be used unless you are comparing them to something. I can say this terminal cancer patient is "doing well", but it doesn't mean anything. Is the game doing well compared to Auto Assault or COX? Is it thriving compared to WOW or DAOC? The President of your company stated that subs weren't doing well thus they needed NGE. Are subs doing well or thriving compared to the time when the NGE was needed?
The last official numbers from what I remember on SWG were 1 million boxes sold and 350k subs, when you were only allowed 1 slot per server and people were forced to have multiple accounts. That's something like 30% retention rate. Is that considered good in the MMO industry? Until you guys release some sort of hard numbers the opinion of many is that the game isn't doing well. Go into any other game or gaming forum and mention SWG and see the responses you get.
Healthy games have expansions and new content added. SWG hasn't had an expansion in almost 2 years? and all of the content I see being added is revamping something that existed before. To me that means the game is being run on a skeleton crew and there isn't any new money being put into it.
I do applaud you for at least coming here and posting unlike your predecessor or any other SOE employee. It's just a shame you're paid to market the Gigli of MMO's.
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them.
Eve always tells ya how many are online at one time. Its meant to be a small game too. So SWG is doing so well it can announce its numbers not including station pass then?
I totally agree with you, I was never a big fan of the old game and neither was my guild thus we all quit. But when you change the menu to get new customers to italian food you don't give them egg noodles with ketchup and dirty forks. If you want to draw in customers you give them the best possible service and food you can to draw them in and keep them. I think the NGE was a good idea but the condition and manner it was rolled out in were totally unacceptable. It was barely a beta version of a game and they charged people money for it.
Heres a question id really like answered. Don't know if its been answered anywhere else, but its relevant and im sure GP could help us all out.
How many people are on the dev team for SWG now? And are they a permanent team? How many designers, how many coders, animators, modelers, level designers. I'm sure if the game is doing so well then there must be an ample staff.
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
...This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. ...and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
I get the impression that were not on the same page. Sidestepping and half-truths are exactly what's pushed too many players away from SWG, and other SOE games. The lack of honesty and empirical data only exemplifies the distrust many have.
This mystical "golden age" as you put it is concerning. It's an attempt to discredit any view regarding any disastisfaction, we might as well say everyone who doesn't like the current game is on drugs.
The best statement is it's what you make of it. Complete truth! If one wishes to enjoy the game they'll do anything in their power to maintain that. This is part of the reason why the ~250k subscribers who left continue to voice their views and express their opinions through abstention of SOE products; brand loyalty is a bitch! You can paint a turd gold, but it's still a turd.
I'm a Glass-is-Half-Full kind of person. I am glad some people can find enjoyment in the direction SWG has taken of recent; we all know it's impossible to get worse then the "nge".
The only way to secure subscribers is to come out in the open with hard facts. SOE has lost ALL credibility and there's little that can be done to restore it.
p.s. distrust in Sony spans across all avenues and not just in their SOE gaming division, albeit the latter has only given cause to reason.
There are really just so many things wrong with this question that it is difficult to answer. Firstly, SWG isn't dead. Quite the contrary. The sheer volume of forum posts, private messages, and fansite requests I receive in a day is a testament to that fact.
"If SWG was doing well they wouldn't need thier CM to constantly reassure everyone, other games that are successful release the numbers."
Apart from the elephant in the room, name them. And! This isn't constant reassurance. That totally isn't my bag. This is merely me reaching out a friendly hand to folks who may not be aware of the progress SWG has made in the two years since the NGE. My style is much more to sneak up on unsuspecting "SWG IS DEAD! OMG! DEATH TO $0E!" threads and lines of thought and gently whisper "You know... actually..." and let the semi-secret truth about how well the game is doing squeak out in tiny bite-size nuggets. If it gets just one old-timer SWG vet to plop the CD's in and give it another go, well, totally worth it in my opinion.
Now, don't get me wrong. There will always be the pro-revert amongst you, and I do respect that. In fact, every game that lasts through any great change develops this sub-set of players. Those die-hard entrenched types that envision a golden age "back in the day" when they played, when Jedi weren't everywhere, animations were slower, politicians were honest and children respected their elders. The truth is, that golden age that is spoken of so often with such reverence is actually when and what you the players make of it. That's just my two credits though.
Where your argument breaks down is soe used to release rough numbers for swg. As soon as the population started to go down they stopped. Anything you say regarding how great swg is doing now population wise has to be take with a grain of salt because of soe's history of blatant lying to and misleading its customers. Sorry, I'm sure your a nice guy and all, but after being burnt so many times by soe and the lies they've told to their customers I don't believe a word you say without any proof.And apart from WoW, I do believe Guild Wars has released their numbers, which was 1 million. Though to be fair, Guild Wars has a different subscription model.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
As long as you keep in mind that GrewPawn's job is essentially the same as Tony Snow's, to tell everybody how great his bosses' policies are working out, no matter what 98% of the people not employed by his bosses say and what any objective evidence suggests, then you'll be a lot more comfortable with his posts.
He's a P.R. spinner, not a source of objective information. Keep your bag of salt handy, you'll need to set aside a pinch for every one of his posts.