I'm confused on why people think Darkfall isnt going to come out. Please list the reasons why.
The title of this topic made me think you wanted opinions, but it seems you just want to enforce your own.
I wanted some sort of evidence. A little proof that it isnt going to come out not something that you just pull out of thin air.
"All i hear is well its been in development for 4 years" yea so most games take somewhere along that time some more some less.
or "It doesnt have a publisher" ok but when was it required to make it a game because there is a lot of low qualitiy games that are published. That would be like giving your child to a drug dealer and hoping he'll raise him right.
You expect me to know everything while the game is still in Alpha? What game do you know has that amount of information out while its still in alpha stage? Yes, its been in developement 7 years and its still in Alpha. So release is at least 2 years away. Thats 9 years. Most MMorpgs take 4 years or less to complete. See the problem here? Your right i dont know exactly but i know enough that its getting to its closing alpha phase. How do you know this? Because they said beta is just around the corner? They have said this every year since 2002. Your right and AoC and WAR arent coming out as well why? because they arent out now. AOC has a release date of october 31. WAr has a projected release date of 1st qtr 2008. Darkfall has no projected release date. Heck it hasn't even entered beta testing yet.
Dark and Light, Mourning, Roma Victor, all were small companies trying to make a MMORPG, and failed miserably. The track record for small companies making these games is very poor. So given the fact after 7 years, they are still in alpha stage, looks very bad.
You expect me to know everything while the game is still in Alpha? What game do you know has that amount of information out while its still in alpha stage? Yes, its been in developement 7 years and its still in Alpha. So release is at least 2 years away. Thats 9 years. Most MMorpgs take 4 years or less to complete. See the problem here? Your right i dont know exactly but i know enough that its getting to its closing alpha phase. How do you know this? Because they said beta is just around the corner? They have said this every year since 2002. Your right and AoC and WAR arent coming out as well why? because they arent out now. AOC has a release date of october 31. WAr has a projected release date of 1st qtr 2008. Darkfall has no projected release date. Heck it hasn't even entered beta testing yet.
Dark and Light, Mourning, Roma Victor, all were small companies trying to make a MMORPG, and failed miserably. The track record for small companies making these games is very poor. So given the fact after 7 years, they are still in alpha stage, looks very bad.
First it had to restart at 2003. So they scratched it and started over. So 4 years their expecting for a beta this summer and the release wont be to long after that. Also they've had some contracts so their work got set back.
They had a clan signup so its in its end phase im not saying its going to be over in the next week but maybe a month or so.
Yes but do we know if AoC or WAR will meet up with those? No we dont know for sure. Some times things might happen.
And their expecting to have a short beta maybe a couple of months which could be a reason for alpha for so long.
We dont know how small or big this company is or do u mean reputation? Which ever they must have some skill in making things such as this since its related to their other projects.
First it had to restart at 2003. So they scratched it and started over. They added more people in 2003. They didn't totally start over from scratch. Even if you start with 2003, thats 4 and a half years, and they are still in alpha. Almost all other mmorpgs have been completely done in 4 years. So 4 years their expecting for a beta this summer and the release wont be to long after that. Also they've had some contracts so their work got set back. They have said, "we expect beta this summer", every year since 2002! How many times do I have to explain that to you? It turned out to be a lie everytime! They have been lying to us constantly for the last 5 years. So why should you believe them now? They had a clan signup so its in its end phase im not saying its going to be over in the next week but maybe a month or so. They had a clan signup in 2004. So signups mean nothing. Yes but do we know if AoC or WAR will meet up with those? No we dont know for sure. Some times things might happen. if AOC was going to delay, they would have done it by now. So it will release on oct 31. Darkfall won't even give a projected release date.
You expect me to know everything while the game is still in Alpha? What game do you know has that amount of information out while its still in alpha stage? Your right i dont know exactly but i know enough that its getting to its closing alpha phase. Your right Everything they listed and have been told is a complete lie. Your right their completely poor and this is all just a hoax but since your so wise tell me. Your right Giving up creative control to a bunch of people helped a lot of games in the past. Not one failure ever right? Your right and AoC and WAR arent coming out as well why? because they arent out now. Those questions can be asked to any game that isnt released so what makes those questions evidence that darkfall isnt coming out. You are so right they should tell you every basic thing about whats going on. Really dont tell me you honestly believe that. They arent going to tell you everything about the game because it can change especially since its just starting to come out of alpha. First let me ask you a few questions. tell me how do mobs react in AoC are they static or dynamic? How exactly does the seige work? How does PvP work is it anywhere or certain areas? There are questions in every game that you can and cannot answer. There are things in every game that you dont and do know. This game is still in alpha phase and we know a lot of game content then most games in this phase know. There is a date they hope to get it out. Isnt that the same thing as what other companies do. Will it be let down? idk only time will tell. There are many SS's and have talk to some that played it.Also there is a video plenty of proof what makes you think that what you think is correct. Sorry kinda of a mess got distracted in some of it.
You said your self that the game is still in alpha... if you talked with someone that has played it then it must have been a developer.
WAR is currently in beta and I have talked to a few friends who are playing it. There are good and bad things about the game but the MECHANICS they have shown in countless movies and podcasts are solid. I won't go into more detail but the game is solid.
AoC I have less knowledge on... It is not in beta yet and there is less information on it. It COULD be vaporware but doubtful since it has not been under development long and has some serious backers and a proven MMO developer.
You want proof, but how can anyone get proof. You just want to troll here. You do not want a discussion... every post you have made has been caustic and inflammatory. your start on these boards is not very promising. I suggest you try a more fan boy type site. I would not bother looking at the official boards for darkfall though since the are a bit too pragmatic for your evangelical posts.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I dont believe that Darkfall is coming out, or IF it does come out that it will be a half decent game for the following reasons... It shares too many similarities with Dark and Light and (Age of) Mourning, huge list of features, huge time in development, no one who can say they played it and small companies....
If you want to believe in Santa, it's ok to me, just dont get your hopes too high, because the fall... will only be greater.
The obly vids of it looks like its been patched together by an amatuer. There really are not any vids of it. Even if it is released it will blow, devs can promise the world that doesn't mean the game will have those promises. Everyone and their moms know DF is vaporware.
Well it may not be but i don't even care... it has no buget in anycase.
lol I see so your anti-df. I can tell by the lack of any supporting statements. There are vids check the website. And if you truly believe that sort of logic then i guess WAR is going to "blow" like AoC, you know cause they promise things. Well there is no evidence that its vaporware. so give me some.
Yes it does.
Use this arguement on DF.
See those vids are not really vids. they show nothing and may not even be in game graphixs (not that they are any good anyway).
See AOC and WAR both say we have this and this , and their vids SHOW THAT THEY DO HAVE SOME OF THE FETURES THEY ARE PROMISING. While AOC is lackign a bit in this area behide WAR , DF has NONE of this.
Those what 2-3 df vids could be simple studio max or whatever (pick urs) vids with no real game in sight.
Thats the point DF has no real game in sight more so for a game that was already supposted to be in beta like a year ago.
FACTs , i don't need them becuase the absents of facts about df is proof enough.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
You said your self that the game is still in alpha... if you talked with someone that has played it then it must have been a developer.
WAR is currently in beta and I have talked to a few friends who are playing it. There are good and bad things about the game but the MECHANICS they have shown in countless movies and podcasts are solid. I won't go into more detail but the game is solid. AoC I have less knowledge on... It is not in beta yet and there is less information on it. It COULD be vaporware but doubtful since it has not been under development long and has some serious backers and a proven MMO developer. You want proof, but how can anyone get proof. You just want to troll here. You do not want a discussion... every post you have made has been caustic and inflammatory. your start on these boards is not very promising. I suggest you try a more fan boy type site. I would not bother looking at the official boards for darkfall though since the are a bit too pragmatic for your evangelical posts.
It was a friend of the dev.
It already has tons of SS's and a video. How can you not take that as some sort of evidence when all you use to argue about is speculations and assumptions.
Ok then ill guess you'll have to wait till beta then but then AoC and DF are on the same boat. So the only difference is the name backing it up?
Yes i do but you've proven nothing just gave me a lot of assumptions which isnt really any evidence. I guess you can call me a fanboy idc i just like to hear a little more solid evidence.
See those vids are not really vids. they show nothing and may not even be in game graphixs (not that they are any good anyway). See AOC and WAR both say we have this and this , and their vids SHOW THAT THEY DO HAVE SOME OF THE FETURES THEY ARE PROMISING. While AOC is lackign a bit in this area behide WAR , DF has NONE of this. Those what 2-3 df vids could be simple studio max or whatever (pick urs) vids with no real game in sight. Thats the point DF has no real game in sight more so for a game that was already supposted to be in beta like a year ago. FACTs , i don't need them becuase the absents of facts about df is proof enough.
Yes it does. It has mounted fighting ship-to-ship battles ship-to-land battles. All the races they have said they have. The combat, the spells all how they said it was going to be like was in there. So what more do u need.
Well how do we know AoC or WAR isnt using the same thing? Come on.
I dont believe that Darkfall is coming out, or IF it does come out that it will be a half decent game for the following reasons... It shares too many similarities with Dark and Light and (Age of) Mourning, huge list of features, huge time in development, no one who can say they played it and small companies.... If you want to believe in Santa, it's ok to me, just dont get your hopes too high, because the fall... will only be greater.
Possibly, possibly not. We'll find out once the beta comes along.
First it had to restart at 2003. So they scratched it and started over. They added more people in 2003. They didn't totally start over from scratch. Even if you start with 2003, thats 4 and a half years, and they are still in alpha. Almost all other mmorpgs have been completely done in 4 years. So 4 years their expecting for a beta this summer and the release wont be to long after that. Also they've had some contracts so their work got set back. They have said, "we expect beta this summer", every year since 2002! How many times do I have to explain that to you? It turned out to be a lie everytime! They have been lying to us constantly for the last 5 years. So why should you believe them now? They had a clan signup so its in its end phase im not saying its going to be over in the next week but maybe a month or so. They had a clan signup in 2004. So signups mean nothing. Yes but do we know if AoC or WAR will meet up with those? No we dont know for sure. Some times things might happen. if AOC was going to delay, they would have done it by now. So it will release on oct 31. Darkfall won't even give a projected release date.
Have other MMORPG's ever tried doing something like this? No and it should be expected that this takes longer than your average point-click game MMO. And the fact they are trying to get all the bugs out before beta so when they do have a beta its a short one.
Yes expectations but no promises. To be honest they never technically lied to us maybe get our hopes down.
Yes your right. That was actually just my hope.
release dates have caused trouble with some games. Where they were rushed at the end or ended up pushed back in the last minute so release dates can be risky unless they are completely finished with the game(bugs included).
Comparing DF to AoC (or WAR for that matter) is just a waste of time.
Why ?
Because they will be completely different games. WAR or AoC are level based games that wants to appeal to the masses. They have probably used alot of resources making content for leveling 1-80 or whatever. When they reach their top level, they will have to join a raid, some sort of PVP or reroll to continue playing.
DF is completly different. There will be no levelling and the characters can devlop whatever skill they want. Want a healing, fireballcasting warrior ? What about a toon that cannot fight but can make the best swords on the server and has more virtual cash than virtual God. There will probably not be much content/quests to show the way.
Sandbox games are not for everyone. The closed example I can think of now is EVE but even that game has some protection/n00b area and insurance for when you die.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Comparing DF to AoC (or WAR for that matter) is just a waste of time. Why ? Because they will be completely different games. WAR or AoC are level based games that wants to appeal to the masses. They have probably used alot of resources making content for leveling 1-80 or whatever. When they reach their top level, they will have to join a raid, some sort of PVP or reroll to continue playing. DF is completly different. There will be no levelling and the characters can devlop whatever skill they want. Want a healing, fireballcasting warrior ? What about a toon that cannot fight but can make the best swords on the server and has more virtual cash than virtual God. There will probably not be much content/quests to show the way. Sandbox games are not for everyone. The closed example I can think of now is EVE but even that game has some protection/n00b area and insurance for when you die.
Different games yes but they are both MMO's. Which is why they can be compared to DF because they also go through the stages DF is going.
To the masses? Are you saying FPS players are going to go on a grind fest? i dont think so. This game will appeal to a whole different lot of players and players who enjoy mmorpg's.
Ok....so you just like to pull things out of thin air? We dont know what they have prepared for those who take those paths. What makes you think there wont be something to show them the way? what about other players?
Yes they arent for everyone but do u really need to ahve a grindfest to have fun? It does have protection heavily guarded cities and protection from your fellow race. Insurance? They have a bank if thats what you mean so they dont lose EVERYTHING if they die.
Yes after 10 years they finely released 3 little postage sized screens, but in the case of DNF it simply proves that games that have become the best example of Vaporware may still be released.
Now, I do have a few questions. I glanced at the site and read some of the features, you guys following this game will have a lot better insight and the fact the Citizen One was scrapped at beta, mainly because it had nothing new to offer. What I mean, one of the main counter posts is true when the say, if the game is not going to make money then it can be scrapped even when it was a viable product. It is scrapped because it would not have a big enough market share. Another example of this was the B5 game that was set for launch until the producers realized that the actual target market was too low to recoup there investments fast enough. Yes it does make financial sense to scrap a project instead of bringing a product to market.
So my questions are:
1. What hooks does this game have that is unique? (What makes it different than for example WOW)
2. Do the hooks have a broad enough interest to create a financial sound player base? (A niche game is not a financial sound investment)
For example one of the selling points listed is FFA PVP, well this is not a selling point to the bean counters of any game manufacturer. Even CCP did not risk having absolutely no safe spots in EVE as they knew that without those PVE concentric there would be no fodder for those wanting to kill players. Thus listing that there is absolutely no safe areas is not a selling point to 98% of the modern player base, actually it a reason not to play the game.
So can some one list what will make players actually want to play the game, what will make this game stand out above the rest? Then look at it from an investor’s point of view, what does this game offer that will make you money, not cost you money? I am looking forward to TR and Huxly for my PVP fix, they have some diffrent hooks.
In early August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website. [2] The Razorwax development team consisted of five members:
Claus Grovdal (Lead Design and Producer)
Ricki Sickenger (Lead Tools and Game Logic Programmer)
Henning Ludvigsen (Art Director)
Kjetil Helland (Lead 3D/Client Programmer)
Erik Sperling Johansen (Lead Server Programmer)
In October 2002, Aventurine S.A. was founded in Greece. The Razorwax team was integrated into Aventurine, and five other developers from Norway were hired into the company.[3] When the Razorwax team and the Aventurine team had their first meeting in Athens, a member of one of the teams joked that Razorwax should relocate from Norway to Greece due to the lower taxes and cost of living in Greece. Eventually, the two teams realized that this idea actually made very good business sense, and by December 2002, the relocation of Razorwax was finalized. In the same year beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist.
Number of people involved;
08/2001: 5 /Razorwax
10/2002: 5 +5 + x(not sure how big the Aventurine team was)
I think it is fair to say that however much work Razorwax did in the beginning with 5 ppl, most of the man hours must have come from the beginning of 2003 and onward. AoC started its development in 2003 as well. I'm not sure of how many of Funcoms 233 employees works on AoC but I'm betting a lot more than 37. With that in mind Aventurine has done well with their people compared to Funcom if they get their beta finished to summer of 2007.
As for WAR they have been in development since may 2005. They will release in 1Q 2008. Mythic Entertainment has about 170 employees, again not sure how many who are working on WAR. Not bad I guess but still alot more ppl on developing WAR compared to DF.
I don't know exactly how investors think but relativly low development costs and a huge game potential, should appeal to some investors...
In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date)
Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development.
In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date)
Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community.
An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta.
An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game.
On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc.
On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat.
On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however.
So there are two missed betadates. Bad ? I dunno but not as bad as the doomsayers says...
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
I have just three words to say: Duke Nukem Forever. Yes after 10 years they finely released 3 little postage sized screens, but in the case of DNF it simply proves that games that have become the best example of Vaporware may still be released. Now, I do have a few questions. I glanced at the site and read some of the features, you guys following this game will have a lot better insight and the fact the Citizen One was scrapped at beta, mainly because it had nothing new to offer. What I mean, one of the main counter posts is true when the say, if the game is not going to make money then it can be scrapped even when it was a viable product. It is scrapped because it would not have a big enough market share. Another example of this was the B5 game that was set for launch until the producers realized that the actual target market was too low to recoup there investments fast enough. Yes it does make financial sense to scrap a project instead of bringing a product to market. So my questions are: 1. What hooks does this game have that is unique? (What makes it different than for example WOW) 2. Do the hooks have a broad enough interest to create a financial sound player base? (A niche game is not a financial sound investment) For example one of the selling points listed is FFA PVP, well this is not a selling point to the bean counters of any game manufacturer. Even CCP did not risk having absolutely no safe spots in EVE as they knew that without those PVE concentric there would be no fodder for those wanting to kill players. Thus listing that there is absolutely no safe areas is not a selling point to 98% of the modern player base, actually it a reason not to play the game. So can some one list what will make players actually want to play the game, what will make this game stand out above the rest? Then look at it from an investor’s point of view, what does this game offer that will make you money, not cost you money? I am looking forward to TR and Huxly for my PVP fix, they have some diffrent hooks.
1- The amount of freedom in the game. If you want to build a ship and attack others then go learn crafting and build you a ship and some cannons. Get bored of dominating the high seas? Try your hand at a fighter go grab a sword or anywep and start hackin away. Like that guy's hat? Kill him and take it.(of course there will be consquences) and a ton more of things. There is about as much freedom cramed into that game as possible. Your not stuck as just being a crafter or just being a swordman you can do both or magic or any sort of combination.
Yes the FFA pvp seems like a bad idea but the amount of security in the racial captiol is very high and the guards are on par if not superior to regular players. Also attacking in a city makes you a prime target to players who like to make some extra cash. Since you drop everything when you die there are some dire consquences if you start randomly killing.
2- It seems like it would. It will attract the FPS players of halo and the regular RPG players. Since its such a flexible game it can appeal to a wide variety of playstyles.
The Amount of freedom is a reason why people are going to play. I mean if you dont like to do something just drop it and go do something else. The pvp is a great style since its playerskill>playtime. Something i think most people would be interested.
My source is wikipedia; ---------------------------------- About Razorwax/Aventurine In early August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website. [2] The Razorwax development team consisted of five members:
Claus Grovdal (Lead Design and Producer) Ricki Sickenger (Lead Tools and Game Logic Programmer) Henning Ludvigsen (Art Director) Kjetil Helland (Lead 3D/Client Programmer) Erik Sperling Johansen (Lead Server Programmer)
In October 2002, Aventurine S.A. was founded in Greece. The Razorwax team was integrated into Aventurine, and five other developers from Norway were hired into the company.[3] When the Razorwax team and the Aventurine team had their first meeting in Athens, a member of one of the teams joked that Razorwax should relocate from Norway to Greece due to the lower taxes and cost of living in Greece. Eventually, the two teams realized that this idea actually made very good business sense, and by December 2002, the relocation of Razorwax was finalized. In the same year beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. Number of people involved; 08/2001: 5 /Razorwax 10/2002: 5 +5 + x(not sure how big the Aventurine team was) 11/2005: 21 devs 01/2007 29 devs + 6 contractors They are currently looking for 2 more here; http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html I think it is fair to say that however much work Razorwax did in the beginning with 5 ppl, most of the man hours must have come from the beginning of 2003 and onward. AoC started its development in 2003 as well. I'm not sure of how many of Funcoms 233 employees works on AoC but I'm betting a lot more than 37. With that in mind Aventurine has done well with their people compared to Funcom if they get their beta finished to summer of 2007. As for WAR they have been in development since may 2005. They will release in 1Q 2008. Mythic Entertainment has about 170 employees, again not sure how many who are working on WAR. Not bad I guess but still alot more ppl on developing WAR compared to DF. I don't know exactly how investors think but relativly low development costs and a huge game potential, should appeal to some investors... --------------------------------------------------- About beta; In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date) Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development. In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date) Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community. An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta. An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game. On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc. On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat. On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however. So there are two missed betadates. Bad ? I dunno but not as bad as the doomsayers says...
So they POSSIBLEY have more employees? Just because they have more people doesnt necessarily more work and they all have to right the code similar otherwise it might cause some problems the more they get in the game. Of course do you know how long they worked on it per day?
Investors you mean those who support the game with money? aventurine's gives them all the money they need. and aventurine seems to have more investors then just the military i found out yesterday.(unless something has happened that caused them to lose them).
Not really i've seen worst but hey it depends on you.
My source is wikipedia; ---------------------------------- About Razorwax/Aventurine In early August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website. [2] The Razorwax development team consisted of five members:
Claus Grovdal (Lead Design and Producer) Ricki Sickenger (Lead Tools and Game Logic Programmer) Henning Ludvigsen (Art Director) Kjetil Helland (Lead 3D/Client Programmer) Erik Sperling Johansen (Lead Server Programmer)
In October 2002, Aventurine S.A. was founded in Greece. The Razorwax team was integrated into Aventurine, and five other developers from Norway were hired into the company.[3] When the Razorwax team and the Aventurine team had their first meeting in Athens, a member of one of the teams joked that Razorwax should relocate from Norway to Greece due to the lower taxes and cost of living in Greece. Eventually, the two teams realized that this idea actually made very good business sense, and by December 2002, the relocation of Razorwax was finalized. In the same year beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. Number of people involved; 08/2001: 5 /Razorwax 10/2002: 5 +5 + x(not sure how big the Aventurine team was) 11/2005: 21 devs 01/2007 29 devs + 6 contractors They are currently looking for 2 more here; http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html I think it is fair to say that however much work Razorwax did in the beginning with 5 ppl, most of the man hours must have come from the beginning of 2003 and onward. AoC started its development in 2003 as well. I'm not sure of how many of Funcoms 233 employees works on AoC but I'm betting a lot more than 37. With that in mind Aventurine has done well with their people compared to Funcom if they get their beta finished to summer of 2007. As for WAR they have been in development since may 2005. They will release in 1Q 2008. Mythic Entertainment has about 170 employees, again not sure how many who are working on WAR. Not bad I guess but still alot more ppl on developing WAR compared to DF. I don't know exactly how investors think but relativly low development costs and a huge game potential, should appeal to some investors... --------------------------------------------------- About beta; In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date) Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development. In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date) Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community. An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta. An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game. On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc. On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat. On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however. So there are two missed betadates. Bad ? I dunno but not as bad as the doomsayers says...
With the small dev team that they claim to have in place, there is no chance that they're anywhere near ready for a beta, unless they have left out 85% of the content that they've discussed.
We're looking at beta in late 2008 at the *earliest*, unless they're willing to show off a seriously empty game ( and players have such high hopes for this game that I think that it'd be a *big* mistake to do so )
This game is in serious danger of just taking so long to develop that it will end up being generations behind the new releases. Think SB - it took too long in development and suffered badly for that mistake.
I will be amazed if this game just doesn't end up dead in the water - all the signs for that are present...
With the small dev team that they claim to have in place, there is no chance that they're anywhere near ready for a beta, unless they have left out 85% of the content that they've discussed. We're looking at beta in late 2008 at the *earliest*, unless they're willing to show off a seriously empty game ( and players have such high hopes for this game that I think that it'd be a *big* mistake to do so )
This game is in serious danger of just taking so long to develop that it will end up being generations behind the new releases. Think SB - it took too long in development and suffered badly for that mistake. I will be amazed if this game just doesn't end up dead in the water - all the signs for that are present...
Possibly we dont know exactly yet. We'll figure it out once beta comes.
We dont truly know how much they have though it seems like it has alot done. Im sure its nto gonna take to much longer. Hopefully they upgrade their graphics again as well. Its not too bad but improvements could be made.
*Exactly* right! It's ok *now*....but if the game takes 18 to 24 months to be released? Then there's going to be a lot of complaints about the graphics, at the very least.
Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but the lack of released data about the game ( hard physical evidence, I'm not talking about faq's and fluff stuff here ) points to the game not being too far along. And they're advertising for the type of help that makes me suspect even more that they're not as far along as some people like to think.
Oh well, we'll see where they're at in a year. If they actually *do* beta this fall I'll be posting an apology for doubting - but I don't think that I'll be needed to do that, sadly.
*Exactly* right! It's ok *now*....but if the game takes 18 to 24 months to be released? Then there's going to be a lot of complaints about the graphics, at the very least.
Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but the lack of released data about the game ( hard physical evidence, I'm not talking about faq's and fluff stuff here ) points to the game not being too far along. And they're advertising for the type of help that makes me suspect even more that they're not as far along as some people like to think.
Oh well, we'll see where they're at in a year. If they actually *do* beta this fall I'll be posting an apology for doubting - but I don't think that I'll be needed to do that, sadly.
wth? EVERY GAME EVER MADE COULD HAVE IMPROVEMENTS. there is no "perfect" game.
Yea it may not be the best but 9 out of 10 times gameplay>graphics and in this case the graphics arent that bad maybe SLIGHTLY lower then AoC. So by next year the graphics of AoC are going to completely blow? Not the case. The graphics can be like that for quite a while.
They plan for hte beta to be short and if it does happen this summer then the release will be probably around christmas.
You want an exact release date? those cause more harm than most because like most games it will either be pushed back or the game will be rushed. They've shown alot of what they promised in the gameplay videos so how is that not evidence? They need a couple of people to help around, they arent asking for a 40+ employees.
You dont really need to apologize for anything but if they do then it will be a joyous day for all.
With the small dev team that they claim to have in place, there is no chance that they're anywhere near ready for a beta, unless they have left out 85% of the content that they've discussed. We're looking at beta in late 2008 at the *earliest*, unless they're willing to show off a seriously empty game ( and players have such high hopes for this game that I think that it'd be a *big* mistake to do so )
This game is in serious danger of just taking so long to develop that it will end up being generations behind the new releases. Think SB - it took too long in development and suffered badly for that mistake. I will be amazed if this game just doesn't end up dead in the water - all the signs for that are present...
CCP made EVE with some 21+ devs in 3 years or so Not an expert but that is what I gather from wikipedia. We'll see of course but building a sandbox might be easier than building a theme park...
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
His account was just created and his logic is Questionable.
He is just trying to get under people's skin. No one *really* believes Darkfall will come out. He is just messing with you.
Poor guy.
Either that or he works for the company and if trying to find out why peopole think the game doesn't really exist.
Either way, I feel sorry for him.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Comments
The title of this topic made me think you wanted opinions, but it seems you just want to enforce your own.
I wanted some sort of evidence. A little proof that it isnt going to come out not something that you just pull out of thin air.
"All i hear is well its been in development for 4 years" yea so most games take somewhere along that time some more some less.
or "It doesnt have a publisher" ok but when was it required to make it a game because there is a lot of low qualitiy games that are published. That would be like giving your child to a drug dealer and hoping he'll raise him right.
Dark and Light, Mourning, Roma Victor, all were small companies trying to make a MMORPG, and failed miserably. The track record for small companies making these games is very poor. So given the fact after 7 years, they are still in alpha stage, looks very bad.
Dark and Light, Mourning, Roma Victor, all were small companies trying to make a MMORPG, and failed miserably. The track record for small companies making these games is very poor. So given the fact after 7 years, they are still in alpha stage, looks very bad.
First it had to restart at 2003. So they scratched it and started over. So 4 years their expecting for a beta this summer and the release wont be to long after that. Also they've had some contracts so their work got set back.
They had a clan signup so its in its end phase im not saying its going to be over in the next week but maybe a month or so.
Yes but do we know if AoC or WAR will meet up with those? No we dont know for sure. Some times things might happen.
And their expecting to have a short beta maybe a couple of months which could be a reason for alpha for so long.
We dont know how small or big this company is or do u mean reputation? Which ever they must have some skill in making things such as this since its related to their other projects.
The game has been in development for eight or more years? And you need to ask why?
WAR is currently in beta and I have talked to a few friends who are playing it. There are good and bad things about the game but the MECHANICS they have shown in countless movies and podcasts are solid. I won't go into more detail but the game is solid.
AoC I have less knowledge on... It is not in beta yet and there is less information on it. It COULD be vaporware but doubtful since it has not been under development long and has some serious backers and a proven MMO developer.
You want proof, but how can anyone get proof. You just want to troll here. You do not want a discussion... every post you have made has been caustic and inflammatory. your start on these boards is not very promising. I suggest you try a more fan boy type site. I would not bother looking at the official boards for darkfall though since the are a bit too pragmatic for your evangelical posts.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
I dont believe that Darkfall is coming out, or IF it does come out that it will be a half decent game for the following reasons... It shares too many similarities with Dark and Light and (Age of) Mourning, huge list of features, huge time in development, no one who can say they played it and small companies....
If you want to believe in Santa, it's ok to me, just dont get your hopes too high, because the fall... will only be greater.
Yes it does.
Use this arguement on DF.See those vids are not really vids. they show nothing and may not even be in game graphixs (not that they are any good anyway).
See AOC and WAR both say we have this and this , and their vids SHOW THAT THEY DO HAVE SOME OF THE FETURES THEY ARE PROMISING. While AOC is lackign a bit in this area behide WAR , DF has NONE of this.
Those what 2-3 df vids could be simple studio max or whatever (pick urs) vids with no real game in sight.
Thats the point DF has no real game in sight more so for a game that was already supposted to be in beta like a year ago.
FACTs , i don't need them becuase the absents of facts about df is proof enough.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
It already has tons of SS's and a video. How can you not take that as some sort of evidence when all you use to argue about is speculations and assumptions.
Ok then ill guess you'll have to wait till beta then but then AoC and DF are on the same boat. So the only difference is the name backing it up?
Yes i do but you've proven nothing just gave me a lot of assumptions which isnt really any evidence. I guess you can call me a fanboy idc i just like to hear a little more solid evidence.
Well how do we know AoC or WAR isnt using the same thing? Come on.
They have enough facts to prove the existance.
4 going on 5. yes i do.
Possibly, possibly not. We'll find out once the beta comes along.
Have other MMORPG's ever tried doing something like this? No and it should be expected that this takes longer than your average point-click game MMO. And the fact they are trying to get all the bugs out before beta so when they do have a beta its a short one.Yes expectations but no promises. To be honest they never technically lied to us maybe get our hopes down.
Yes your right. That was actually just my hope.
release dates have caused trouble with some games. Where they were rushed at the end or ended up pushed back in the last minute so release dates can be risky unless they are completely finished with the game(bugs included).
Comparing DF to AoC (or WAR for that matter) is just a waste of time.
Why ?
Because they will be completely different games. WAR or AoC are level based games that wants to appeal to the masses. They have probably used alot of resources making content for leveling 1-80 or whatever. When they reach their top level, they will have to join a raid, some sort of PVP or reroll to continue playing.
DF is completly different. There will be no levelling and the characters can devlop whatever skill they want. Want a healing, fireballcasting warrior ? What about a toon that cannot fight but can make the best swords on the server and has more virtual cash than virtual God. There will probably not be much content/quests to show the way.
Sandbox games are not for everyone. The closed example I can think of now is EVE but even that game has some protection/n00b area and insurance for when you die.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
To the masses? Are you saying FPS players are going to go on a grind fest? i dont think so. This game will appeal to a whole different lot of players and players who enjoy mmorpg's.
Ok....so you just like to pull things out of thin air? We dont know what they have prepared for those who take those paths. What makes you think there wont be something to show them the way? what about other players?
Yes they arent for everyone but do u really need to ahve a grindfest to have fun? It does have protection heavily guarded cities and protection from your fellow race. Insurance? They have a bank if thats what you mean so they dont lose EVERYTHING if they die.
I have just three words to say:
Duke Nukem Forever.
Yes after 10 years they finely released 3 little postage sized screens, but in the case of DNF it simply proves that games that have become the best example of Vaporware may still be released.
Now, I do have a few questions. I glanced at the site and read some of the features, you guys following this game will have a lot better insight and the fact the Citizen One was scrapped at beta, mainly because it had nothing new to offer. What I mean, one of the main counter posts is true when the say, if the game is not going to make money then it can be scrapped even when it was a viable product. It is scrapped because it would not have a big enough market share. Another example of this was the B5 game that was set for launch until the producers realized that the actual target market was too low to recoup there investments fast enough. Yes it does make financial sense to scrap a project instead of bringing a product to market.
So my questions are:
1. What hooks does this game have that is unique? (What makes it different than for example WOW)
2. Do the hooks have a broad enough interest to create a financial sound player base? (A niche game is not a financial sound investment)
For example one of the selling points listed is FFA PVP, well this is not a selling point to the bean counters of any game manufacturer. Even CCP did not risk having absolutely no safe spots in EVE as they knew that without those PVE concentric there would be no fodder for those wanting to kill players. Thus listing that there is absolutely no safe areas is not a selling point to 98% of the modern player base, actually it a reason not to play the game.
So can some one list what will make players actually want to play the game, what will make this game stand out above the rest? Then look at it from an investor’s point of view, what does this game offer that will make you money, not cost you money? I am looking forward to TR and Huxly for my PVP fix, they have some diffrent hooks.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
My source is wikipedia;
----------------------------------
About Razorwax/Aventurine
In early August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website. [2] The Razorwax development team consisted of five members:
In October 2002, Aventurine S.A. was founded in Greece. The Razorwax team was integrated into Aventurine, and five other developers from Norway were hired into the company.[3] When the Razorwax team and the Aventurine team had their first meeting in Athens, a member of one of the teams joked that Razorwax should relocate from Norway to Greece due to the lower taxes and cost of living in Greece. Eventually, the two teams realized that this idea actually made very good business sense, and by December 2002, the relocation of Razorwax was finalized. In the same year beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist.
Number of people involved;
08/2001: 5 /Razorwax
10/2002: 5 +5 + x(not sure how big the Aventurine team was)
11/2005: 21 devs
01/2007 29 devs + 6 contractors
They are currently looking for 2 more here;
http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html
I think it is fair to say that however much work Razorwax did in the beginning with 5 ppl, most of the man hours must have come from the beginning of 2003 and onward. AoC started its development in 2003 as well. I'm not sure of how many of Funcoms 233 employees works on AoC but I'm betting a lot more than 37. With that in mind Aventurine has done well with their people compared to Funcom if they get their beta finished to summer of 2007.
As for WAR they have been in development since may 2005. They will release in 1Q 2008. Mythic Entertainment has about 170 employees, again not sure how many who are working on WAR. Not bad I guess but still alot more ppl on developing WAR compared to DF.
I don't know exactly how investors think but relativly low development costs and a huge game potential, should appeal to some investors...
---------------------------------------------------
About beta;
In the same year (2002) beta was announced and sign ups began. After 6 months sign ups were closed and the original declaration of closed beta was retracted. To this day claims of beta about to start persist. (1st changed beta date)
Tasos Flambouras (Associate Producer of Darkfall) stated in his July 9, 2004 status report that "Darkfall is still in internal beta" due to delays in development.
In September 2005 the signup for the closed clan beta began. But the planned beta of Q4 2005 was cancelled. Developers have stated that before the beta, they would release a gameplay video which they did in February 2006. (2nd changed beta date)
Aventurine did not have a playable version of Darkfall available at E³ 2006. In June 2006, just after E³, the Darkfall team started releasing weekly Questions and Answers through Warcry, in order to help newcomers to the community.
An announcement on July 11, 2006 stated that preparations are still being made to begin beta.
An interview with the developers on August 25, 2006 indicates that Aventurine does not have a publisher for Darkfall, and has considered the possibility of self-publishing the game.
On January 17, 2007, Aventurine announced that a fully functional and stable beta build is running on remote servers and that the game is being shown to prospective partners, distributors, publishers, technology providers, etc.
On January 30, 2007, Aventurine release a video containing about one minute of ingame footage, showing melee combat, mounts (including mounted combat), spellcasting and naval combat.
On May 31, 2007, Aventurine's 9th Developer Journal responded to some of the recent beta inquiries, and announced that their internal target date for beta is Summer '07. In addition, the main Darkfall site has continued to see regular updates to its Race, Monster, and Lands sections. Skepticism still surrounds the announcement due to the previously missed Beta deadlines however.
So there are two missed betadates. Bad ? I dunno but not as bad as the doomsayers says...
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Yes the FFA pvp seems like a bad idea but the amount of security in the racial captiol is very high and the guards are on par if not superior to regular players. Also attacking in a city makes you a prime target to players who like to make some extra cash. Since you drop everything when you die there are some dire consquences if you start randomly killing.
2- It seems like it would. It will attract the FPS players of halo and the regular RPG players. Since its such a flexible game it can appeal to a wide variety of playstyles.
The Amount of freedom is a reason why people are going to play. I mean if you dont like to do something just drop it and go do something else. The pvp is a great style since its playerskill>playtime. Something i think most people would be interested.
So they POSSIBLEY have more employees? Just because they have more people doesnt necessarily more work and they all have to right the code similar otherwise it might cause some problems the more they get in the game. Of course do you know how long they worked on it per day?
Investors you mean those who support the game with money? aventurine's gives them all the money they need. and aventurine seems to have more investors then just the military i found out yesterday.(unless something has happened that caused them to lose them).
Not really i've seen worst but hey it depends on you.
With the small dev team that they claim to have in place, there is no chance that they're anywhere near ready for a beta, unless they have left out 85% of the content that they've discussed.
We're looking at beta in late 2008 at the *earliest*, unless they're willing to show off a seriously empty game ( and players have such high hopes for this game that I think that it'd be a *big* mistake to do so )
This game is in serious danger of just taking so long to develop that it will end up being generations behind the new releases. Think SB - it took too long in development and suffered badly for that mistake.
I will be amazed if this game just doesn't end up dead in the water - all the signs for that are present...
Possibly we dont know exactly yet. We'll figure it out once beta comes.
We dont truly know how much they have though it seems like it has alot done. Im sure its nto gonna take to much longer. Hopefully they upgrade their graphics again as well. Its not too bad but improvements could be made.
Well then prepare to be amazed.
"Its not too bad but improvements could be made."
*Exactly* right! It's ok *now*....but if the game takes 18 to 24 months to be released? Then there's going to be a lot of complaints about the graphics, at the very least.
Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but the lack of released data about the game ( hard physical evidence, I'm not talking about faq's and fluff stuff here ) points to the game not being too far along. And they're advertising for the type of help that makes me suspect even more that they're not as far along as some people like to think.
Oh well, we'll see where they're at in a year. If they actually *do* beta this fall I'll be posting an apology for doubting - but I don't think that I'll be needed to do that, sadly.
wth? EVERY GAME EVER MADE COULD HAVE IMPROVEMENTS. there is no "perfect" game.
Yea it may not be the best but 9 out of 10 times gameplay>graphics and in this case the graphics arent that bad maybe SLIGHTLY lower then AoC. So by next year the graphics of AoC are going to completely blow? Not the case. The graphics can be like that for quite a while.
They plan for hte beta to be short and if it does happen this summer then the release will be probably around christmas.
You want an exact release date? those cause more harm than most because like most games it will either be pushed back or the game will be rushed. They've shown alot of what they promised in the gameplay videos so how is that not evidence? They need a couple of people to help around, they arent asking for a 40+ employees.
You dont really need to apologize for anything but if they do then it will be a joyous day for all.
CCP made EVE with some 21+ devs in 3 years or so Not an expert but that is what I gather from wikipedia. We'll see of course but building a sandbox might be easier than building a theme park...
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
His account was just created and his logic is Questionable.
He is just trying to get under people's skin. No one *really* believes Darkfall will come out. He is just messing with you.
Poor guy.
Either that or he works for the company and if trying to find out why peopole think the game doesn't really exist.
Either way, I feel sorry for him.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman