His account was just created and his logic is Questionable. He is just trying to get under people's skin. No one *really* believes Darkfall will come out. He is just messing with you. Poor guy. Either that or he works for the company and if trying to find out why peopole think the game doesn't really exist. Either way, I feel sorry for him.
Originally posted by Questionable Originally posted by Leodious His account was just created and his logic is Questionable. He is just trying to get under people's skin. No one *really* believes Darkfall will come out. He is just messing with you. Poor guy. Either that or he works for the company and if trying to find out why peopole think the game doesn't really exist. Either way, I feel sorry for him.
Clever. now if you're finished leave.
Fixed.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
CCP made EVE with some 21+ devs in 3 years or so Not an expert but that is what I gather from wikipedia. We'll see of course but building a sandbox might be easier than building a theme park...
And EVE at launch was a horrid mess, and won the coveted Coaster of the Year award at CGW (now PC Gaming for Windows)...
Its since recovered, and CCP has a lot more staff now on the game..... and it has a sub base of about 200K.... not bad...but certainly no WOW killer...
when they should have had someone in that role for quite some time if the game is "just about finished"...... (shades of VG Batman)
I'm sure they are still trying hard.... but until they start running demos like WAR does, where common people can get their hands on the game and play it, people are going to call it Vaporware.....
I hope it comes out one day, and mostly doesn't suck..... but that's just not the safe bet.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by Xris375 CCP made EVE with some 21+ devs in 3 years or so Not an expert but that is what I gather from wikipedia. We'll see of course but building a sandbox might be easier than building a theme park...
And EVE at launch was a horrid mess, and won the coveted Coaster of the Year award at CGW (now PC Gaming for Windows)...
Its since recovered, and CCP has a lot more staff now on the game..... and it has a sub base of about 200K.... not bad...but certainly no WOW killer... Doesn't exactly inspire confidence that they are just now hiring a QA Test Lead http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html when they should have had someone in that role for quite some time if the game is "just about finished"...... (shades of VG Batman) I'm sure they are still trying hard.... but until they start running demos like WAR does, where common people can get their hands on the game and play it, people are going to call it Vaporware..... I hope it comes out one day, and mostly doesn't suck..... but that's just not the safe bet.
Just a thought, but I assume they have had someone in that position, but they probably quit when they realised they were working on a game that would never be released. How would like look on a resume?
"I worked on Darkfall."
"Wasn't that that game that took eight years to make, and flopped in the first year."
"Yeah, that'd be it."
"You must suck. I am sorry but we don't hire people who suck."
I am surprised anyone is working there anymore.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
CCP made EVE with some 21+ devs in 3 years or so Not an expert but that is what I gather from wikipedia. We'll see of course but building a sandbox might be easier than building a theme park...
And EVE at launch was a horrid mess, and won the coveted Coaster of the Year award at CGW (now PC Gaming for Windows)...
Its since recovered, and CCP has a lot more staff now on the game..... and it has a sub base of about 200K.... not bad...but certainly no WOW killer...
when they should have had someone in that role for quite some time if the game is "just about finished"...... (shades of VG Batman)
I'm sure they are still trying hard.... but until they start running demos like WAR does, where common people can get their hands on the game and play it, people are going to call it Vaporware.....
I hope it comes out one day, and mostly doesn't suck..... but that's just not the safe bet.
The reason they could be hiring could be a lot of reasons such as the last one wasnt doing his job correctly or did something that made the higher ups angry at him.
The want the game finished and if the guy wasnt doing his job right i would kick him out and hire a new guy too.
Yes majority is going to be thinking its vaporware. Well we'll find out sooner or later.
Too tired to stretch my mind for anything intelligible. But will all you nay sayers and vapor ware shouters eat a bar of soap, or at least stitch your fingers together, so if Darkfall does come out i don't have to listen on any vent/board/chat on how you supported it all the way. You troll because you love it really, its your wet dream of a game.
People believe in a man of virgin birth, who was apparently white, the son of god, made wine from water, could do many tricks David Blaine can do, was nailed to a cross and somehow rose from the dead to just prove a point. So why can't some people just believe in Darkfall? Do i need to write a holy text about it to give it some credit or what?
Sorry! Had to derail for a quick sec just to tell Snoopy20 that I LOVE Banksy! The bomb hugger is my wallpaper.
I'm not sure what's going on with this game, really. Are they still actively trying to find a buyer for it? So much time goes by with no updates, too, that the game is constantly dropping off people's radar. Well, at least mine. It would be great if a independent company without huge amounts of corporate money behind it could pull off a WoW or Lineage II... especially if they did it because they took a risk and created something different. It seems to be a risk, however, and a long shot especially when you look at all the promises that games such as Horizons, DnL and others made and failed to deliver. While I'd love seeing them launch a good game, I feel that expecting something at this point would be a bit naive of me.
im gonna have to ask do you even look at darkfall? Its very different then any game ive seen. Tell me another game that has NO safe-zones , a mmo that is based around player skill then time played, a mmo that gives you enough freedom to be w/e you like. Oh and it does have an investor BTW.
Oh i see so it can only be successful if its from a well known company? That there isnt really true as you've said so why cant it work they other way around?
Number two...what would make people want to play Darkfall over the other Fantasy MMOs available. New features! Darkfall has it's share of them...and most have not been tested in any way in the MMO market place. This would have been fine 5-8 years ago, when people did not have certain expectations about MMOs...times have changed. The advancements that Darkfall is offering look fantastic...but they are not going to get the average gamer jumping to play. You need to sell to masses...why make a game if it makes no money...it's pointless. If only hardcore mmo players will buy and support the game (and they being such a fickle bunch) then the game is going to fail (can you say Vanguard...sure it's still around, but no one can claim it a success).
LOL this reminds me so much of SOE and SWG.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
Originally posted by snoopy20 Too tired to stretch my mind for anything intelligible. But will all you nay sayers and vapor ware shouters eat a bar of soap, or at least stitch your fingers together, so if Darkfall does come out i don't have to listen on any vent/board/chat on how you supported it all the way. You troll because you love it really, its your wet dream of a game. People believe in a man of virgin birth, who was apparently white, the son of god, made wine from water, could do many tricks David Blaine can do, was nailed to a cross and somehow rose from the dead to just prove a point. So why can't some people just believe in Darkfall? Do i need to write a holy text about it to give it some credit or what?
It is ironic you should bring him up. I don't believe in him either, save maybe that he was a real guy who really died because there were some crazy polotics back then, but not the magical stuff. However, I wish he were real. It makes sense that people would wish he existed because he makes things better. If he were real the whole world would be brighter, things would have more meaning, everything would be better.
The same goes for Darkfall. If it were released, the way they say it will be, it would be the holy grail of video games. I would love it, and play it whenever I could. The fact remains, however, that there is not and has not been any serious indication that any real development is being done.
If we are logical creatures, and I hope that we are, this can mean either of only two things:
1) The people making the game do not know how to market, and do not know that players and prospective players need updates to let them know that something is actually happening behind the curtain during development. They either were never told this, and no one there knows this, and/or they have no one whose job it is to make sure potential players know what is going on, or they simply don't care.
2) They really don't have anything to show us because they have no money and no people and no real code to make a decent game from.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
If we are logical creatures, and I hope that we are, this can mean either of only two things: 1) The people making the game do not know how to market, and do not know that players and prospective players need updates to let them know that something is actually happening behind the curtain during development. They either were never told this, and no one there knows this, and/or they have no one whose job it is to make sure potential players know what is going on, or they simply don't care. 2) They really don't have anything to show us because they have no money and no people and no real code to make a decent game from.
Humans are for the most part logical beings. That said, the universe is a very complex place to live and to survive and evolve we make models of how it works to understand it and to make choices. After building a model for a few decades, this become more real for a person than the true universe he or she lives in. So what do we logical humans do ? We let our model influence what we actually see.
An example of a flawless but might be an untrue logical statement
a). Small companies cannot make good games
b). Aventurine is a small company
c) Aventurine cannot make good games
Your strong statement of "this can mean either of only two things" is logical surly but may be ultimately wrong all the same because you don't even consider the possibility that a firm can have such a big confidence in their product that they don't belive using resources on marketing right now. That it is better used on actually making the game in stead of handholding the fans.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
It is ironic you should bring him up. I don't believe in him either, save maybe that he was a real guy who really died because there were some crazy polotics back then, but not the magical stuff. However, I wish he were real. It makes sense that people would wish he existed because he makes things better. If he were real the whole world would be brighter, things would have more meaning, everything would be better. The same goes for Darkfall. If it were released, the way they say it will be, it would be the holy grail of video games. I would love it, and play it whenever I could. The fact remains, however, that there is not and has not been any serious indication that any real development is being done. If we are logical creatures, and I hope that we are, this can mean either of only two things: 1) The people making the game do not know how to market, and do not know that players and prospective players need updates to let them know that something is actually happening behind the curtain during development. They either were never told this, and no one there knows this, and/or they have no one whose job it is to make sure potential players know what is going on, or they simply don't care. 2) They really don't have anything to show us because they have no money and no people and no real code to make a decent game from.
What do u consider "serious" indication? Is that the only logic behind it? If its not please tell me what else you used to draw these conclusions?
A logical creature would have given logic then the conclusions but you've done nothing of the sort.
Originally posted by Questionable Originally posted by Leodious It is ironic you should bring him up. I don't believe in him either, save maybe that he was a real guy who really died because there were some crazy polotics back then, but not the magical stuff. However, I wish he were real. It makes sense that people would wish he existed because he makes things better. If he were real the whole world would be brighter, things would have more meaning, everything would be better. The same goes for Darkfall. If it were released, the way they say it will be, it would be the holy grail of video games. I would love it, and play it whenever I could. The fact remains, however, that there is not and has not been any serious indication that any real development is being done. If we are logical creatures, and I hope that we are, this can mean either of only two things: 1) The people making the game do not know how to market, and do not know that players and prospective players need updates to let them know that something is actually happening behind the curtain during development. They either were never told this, and no one there knows this, and/or they have no one whose job it is to make sure potential players know what is going on, or they simply don't care. 2) They really don't have anything to show us because they have no money and no people and no real code to make a decent game from.
What do u consider "serious" indication? Is that the only logic behind it? If its not please tell me what else you used to draw these conclusions? A logical creature would have given logic then the conclusions but you've done nothing of the sort.
Look at how other companies conduct their development. They gradually dole out things to keep potential players interested, and remind those people that work is in fact being done, and that the game is progessing. Darkfall has been in production for many years and the available information is pretty much the same. Even the FAQs have changed very very little in over a year. This is just not the way a company that is doing things operates. They change things, they update with new information, they keep people in the loop. Darkfall has not kept people in the loop.
As for Xris, I did not consider that possibility, but it is certainly something to think about, and could probably fall into my Number 1. They don't care to do the things most companies do.
However, Xris, there are things called logical fallacies, and your small company example is one. I cannot remember the official name for it, but it is something in Latin, and I never bothered to remember my Latin. But it is something about baselessness. In order to assert a proposition in traditional deductive reasoning, which you are using, you have to have a primary proposition that is incontestable. Small companies make poor games is easily contestable and thus the basis of the logic flawed and the following statements are known as "baseless" and cannot be used.
Neverthe less, while your latter statment is possible, it is very unlikely. Most businessmen understand how people work, and know that you have to keep your potential buyers interested or they will move on. Just as people are doing now, and did before, moving on to Everquest or some other equally unappealing game, but they exist, and Darkfall does not. If they choose not to promote themselves, they are probably not very bright. If they are not very bright, they probably cannot make a decent game.
That's inductive reasoning.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Neverthe less, while your latter statment is possible, it is very unlikely. Most businessmen understand how people work, and know that you have to keep your potential buyers interested or they will move on. Just as people are doing now, and did before, moving on to Everquest or some other equally unappealing game, but they exist, and Darkfall does not. If they choose not to promote themselves, they are probably not very bright. If they are not very bright, they probably cannot make a decent game. That's inductive reasoning.
I think I understand what you mean, and while you may be correct that this is the way business is done in the past, the future may be different.
This is from a interview a couple of years ago. Yes, it has some faulty beta info (again) but it may also say something about how the devs think about the issue;
Jonric: What considerations led to your decision to remain pretty quiet about the game for the past year or more?
Tasos Flambouras: Regrettably, we've had to pass up many publicity opportunities in the past year, due to the hardcore development focus, the limited showcase capability, and the very limited time to spend time on anything other than development.
But the main reason is that we decided that it's time to show Darkfall, rather than keep talking about it - we believe that it will speak for itself better than we ever could. It's also impossible to compete head-on with the coverage and the professional buzz generated by marketing, media, and PR departments working for the 'big games'. We've dedicated our resources to development, knowing that our game can compete a lot better than our publicity can. Once we've shown what we can do, I believe that what we say will make a bigger impact.
-------------------
Internet makes it easier to market things, especially if it is a market that is actually looking for their product. When and if Darkfall gets out, you will know it, I can almost guarantee it
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
I hadn't thought of it that way really, either. They are a very small team, and there is the third possibility that they simply don't have the time to talk to the publicity people because they need to focus on making the game. If this is the correct option, it may be the best. This probably means they are really serious about those over-the-top promises they have made, and really want the game to be flat-out awesome. If they really want to deliver on those promises, it would take a massive ammount of intricate code and testing to make sure it doesn't blow up the second you try to use it.
I really, suddenly, hope I am wrong and you are right because if this is the case, then maybe they really do have something up their sleeves after all. I am still timid about this, but you just really turned my thinking around, and I think there is an outside chance the game will come out. I know from the PR stuff they have put out, if they can do what they say they can do, they will have my money each month. Maybe if enough people are willing to put up the cash for a game like thta, developers will see that there is money to be made in making a game that isn't...for lack of a better term, "carebear."
It just has to come out for that to happen.
*crosses fingers*
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
You hit me with a curveball again! I hadn't thought of it that way really, either. They are a very small team, and there is the third possibility that they simply don't have the time to talk to the publicity people because they need to focus on making the game. If this is the correct option, it may be the best. This probably means they are really serious about those over-the-top promises they have made, and really want the game to be flat-out awesome. If they really want to deliver on those promises, it would take a massive ammount of intricate code and testing to make sure it doesn't blow up the second you try to use it. I really, suddenly, hope I am wrong and you are right because if this is the case, then maybe they really do have something up their sleeves after all. I am still timid about this, but you just really turned my thinking around, and I think there is an outside chance the game will come out. I know from the PR stuff they have put out, if they can do what they say they can do, they will have my money each month. Maybe if enough people are willing to put up the cash for a game like thta, developers will see that there is money to be made in making a game that isn't...for lack of a better term, "carebear." It just has to come out for that to happen. *crosses fingers*
Let me tell you why I belive this game is coming out. It may be irrational and it may be wrong but here it comes anyway.
Norway is a prett nice place to live and 10 norwegians don't just pack up their backpacks and families and leave it's shores if they are not going to do something they belive in. If they are crooks, they must be the most inefficient crooks I have heard about
They have been over there now for over 4 years , hopefully working for something that will blow our minds.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Norway is also one of the most expensive places in the world to live. Your money probably goes further nearly anywhere else. Still, even though I've expressed my doubts about this game, I have no idea what's happening with it really. I'm all guess work on this one. If they are accomplishing their goal, more frequent updated info would probably do them a world of good. No news is really not good news in this case.
Let me tell you why I belive this game is coming out. It may be irrational and it may be wrong but here it comes anyway.
Norway is a prett nice place to live and 10 norwegians don't just pack up their backpacks and families and leave it's shores if they are not going to do something they belive in. If they are crooks, they must be the most inefficient crooks I have heard about They have been over there now for over 4 years , hopefully working for something that will blow our minds.
It has nothing to do with them being crooks. They simply might not have the expertise to make this game.
Look at games like Dark & Light, Mourning, Roma VIctor. The people who made those games weren't crooks. But in the end, they simply didn't have the talent and expertise to pull those games off.
It has nothing to do with them being crooks. They simply might not have the expertise to make this game.
Look at games like Dark & Light, Mourning, Roma VIctor. The people who made those games weren't crooks. But in the end, they simply didn't have the talent and expertise to pull those games off.
QFT.
Maybe they can pull it off, maybe not.
The cat running in straight lines points to no.
The infrequent and crappy updates point to no.
The fact that the mods get all excited and say stuff like "OMG, WE HAVE PROOF THAT THERE IS ACTUALLY A GAME." points to no.
When people wet themselves because the devs prove that there is, in fact, a game in progress.... not a good sign.
On the other hand, the grass looked GREAT.
----- Its funny how people who hate Darkfall spend so much time talking about Darkfall.
I guess being a fat troll means having no friends, no girls, and nothing better to do than spew hate on internet forums..
im very confused why no big companies will suport Darkfall............ the game content are so rich that they'll earn the money back in no time. Heck, if i have the money ill invest in it!! >.<
Originally posted by Questionable ...People that like to play games like UO or Shadowbane ...
Enough said. Shadowbane is a game populated by the lowest of the low of the social rejects. Nobody in their right mind would ever pay money for that kind of gameplay. Well... Some will. May be. If they are not too busy doing SM movies.
I have to say, that's a fairly large generalization when it comes to Shadowbane. Actually, I think it's wrong as well. I play Shadowbane and I just have to disagree. The people I play with, in my guild, aren't anywhere NEAR the "lowest of the low of the social rejects." As a matter of fact, I've met far worse in World of Warcraft. Don't generalize a game like that. Honestly, I doubt you've even played. If you have, perhaps you just ran into a bad streak of people (it happens in every game).
But on topic, I won't claim Darkfall is never coming out until they themselves announce it will never come out. It's not like I'm paying to wait or anything, so why is it that people are so intent on flaming the game?
Regardless, I'll wait for Darkfall until it's released or canceled, just like I have Duke Nukem Forever.
Look at how other companies conduct their development. They gradually dole out things to keep potential players interested, and remind those people that work is in fact being done, and that the game is progessing. Darkfall has been in production for many years and the available information is pretty much the same. Even the FAQs have changed very very little in over a year. This is just not the way a company that is doing things operates. They change things, they update with new information, they keep people in the loop. Darkfall has not kept people in the loop. As for Xris, I did not consider that possibility, but it is certainly something to think about, and could probably fall into my Number 1. They don't care to do the things most companies do. However, Xris, there are things called logical fallacies, and your small company example is one. I cannot remember the official name for it, but it is something in Latin, and I never bothered to remember my Latin. But it is something about baselessness. In order to assert a proposition in traditional deductive reasoning, which you are using, you have to have a primary proposition that is incontestable. Small companies make poor games is easily contestable and thus the basis of the logic flawed and the following statements are known as "baseless" and cannot be used. Neverthe less, while your latter statment is possible, it is very unlikely. Most businessmen understand how people work, and know that you have to keep your potential buyers interested or they will move on. Just as people are doing now, and did before, moving on to Everquest or some other equally unappealing game, but they exist, and Darkfall does not. If they choose not to promote themselves, they are probably not very bright. If they are not very bright, they probably cannot make a decent game. That's inductive reasoning.
They want the players to find and figure out things themselves. They have reminded us that work is being done they've shown us alot of progress they made. Or is that not evidence? Yes they show us some of the things they update and give us info to keep us interested. I think you mean "This is just not the way a company that is doing things operates NORMALLY." But just incase you've may have missed it DF is not a normal game.
The FAQ's are basic information for the game. So no unless they make a big change their isnt going to be a lot of changes to it.
If they did things like a every other normal company they would have made a simple point-click game. The reason those companies do that is to show that its different from the 100+ point-click games. DF is not your normal game so it doesnt need to have all the information out especially since it could possibly be changed or tweaked.
I think they have better things to do with their time then to promote themselves when they can be working on the game. They can promote during beta and it seems like a lot of mmo players seem to at least heard of darkfall.
It has nothing to do with them being crooks. They simply might not have the expertise to make this game.
Look at games like Dark & Light, Mourning, Roma VIctor. The people who made those games weren't crooks. But in the end, they simply didn't have the talent and expertise to pull those games off.
Perhaps but their other contracts require them to have such skill and if they werent good enough those contracts would have went to another company.
Maybe they can pull it off, maybe not. The cat running in straight lines points to no. The infrequent and crappy updates point to no. The fact that the mods get all excited and say stuff like "OMG, WE HAVE PROOF THAT THERE IS ACTUALLY A GAME." points to no. When people wet themselves because the devs prove that there is, in fact, a game in progress.... not a good sign. On the other hand, the grass looked GREAT.
Yea your right they should just stop developing the game to take the time to write up an article and a long-ass gameplay vid because thats a great way to waste their resources.
The mods do not act like taht and those are only a small minority your talking about.
Geez... how long could it take to give people an update once every week or so? I just figure when you hear nothing for months that they're all busy with their day jobs. That sure doesn't keep them on the top of my list of games to remember.
Comments
Clever. now if your finished leave.
Fixed.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Thank you.
And EVE at launch was a horrid mess, and won the coveted Coaster of the Year award at CGW (now PC Gaming for Windows)...
Its since recovered, and CCP has a lot more staff now on the game..... and it has a sub base of about 200K.... not bad...but certainly no WOW killer...
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence that they are just now hiring a QA Test Lead http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html
when they should have had someone in that role for quite some time if the game is "just about finished"...... (shades of VG Batman)
I'm sure they are still trying hard.... but until they start running demos like WAR does, where common people can get their hands on the game and play it, people are going to call it Vaporware.....
I hope it comes out one day, and mostly doesn't suck..... but that's just not the safe bet.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Its since recovered, and CCP has a lot more staff now on the game..... and it has a sub base of about 200K.... not bad...but certainly no WOW killer...
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence that they are just now hiring a QA Test Lead http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html
when they should have had someone in that role for quite some time if the game is "just about finished"...... (shades of VG Batman)
I'm sure they are still trying hard.... but until they start running demos like WAR does, where common people can get their hands on the game and play it, people are going to call it Vaporware.....
I hope it comes out one day, and mostly doesn't suck..... but that's just not the safe bet.
Just a thought, but I assume they have had someone in that position, but they probably quit when they realised they were working on a game that would never be released. How would like look on a resume?
"I worked on Darkfall."
"Wasn't that that game that took eight years to make, and flopped in the first year."
"Yeah, that'd be it."
"You must suck. I am sorry but we don't hire people who suck."
I am surprised anyone is working there anymore.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
And EVE at launch was a horrid mess, and won the coveted Coaster of the Year award at CGW (now PC Gaming for Windows)...
Its since recovered, and CCP has a lot more staff now on the game..... and it has a sub base of about 200K.... not bad...but certainly no WOW killer...
Doesn't exactly inspire confidence that they are just now hiring a QA Test Lead http://www.aventurine.gr/jobs.html
when they should have had someone in that role for quite some time if the game is "just about finished"...... (shades of VG Batman)
I'm sure they are still trying hard.... but until they start running demos like WAR does, where common people can get their hands on the game and play it, people are going to call it Vaporware.....
I hope it comes out one day, and mostly doesn't suck..... but that's just not the safe bet.
The reason they could be hiring could be a lot of reasons such as the last one wasnt doing his job correctly or did something that made the higher ups angry at him.
The want the game finished and if the guy wasnt doing his job right i would kick him out and hire a new guy too.
Yes majority is going to be thinking its vaporware. Well we'll find out sooner or later.
Too tired to stretch my mind for anything intelligible. But will all you nay sayers and vapor ware shouters eat a bar of soap, or at least stitch your fingers together, so if Darkfall does come out i don't have to listen on any vent/board/chat on how you supported it all the way. You troll because you love it really, its your wet dream of a game.
People believe in a man of virgin birth, who was apparently white, the son of god, made wine from water, could do many tricks David Blaine can do, was nailed to a cross and somehow rose from the dead to just prove a point. So why can't some people just believe in Darkfall? Do i need to write a holy text about it to give it some credit or what?
Currently playing: Planetside, Americas Army.
Praying to Zeus for: Darkfall.
Sorry! Had to derail for a quick sec just to tell Snoopy20 that I LOVE Banksy! The bomb hugger is my wallpaper.
I'm not sure what's going on with this game, really. Are they still actively trying to find a buyer for it? So much time goes by with no updates, too, that the game is constantly dropping off people's radar. Well, at least mine. It would be great if a independent company without huge amounts of corporate money behind it could pull off a WoW or Lineage II... especially if they did it because they took a risk and created something different. It seems to be a risk, however, and a long shot especially when you look at all the promises that games such as Horizons, DnL and others made and failed to deliver. While I'd love seeing them launch a good game, I feel that expecting something at this point would be a bit naive of me.
Number two...what would make people want to play Darkfall over the other Fantasy MMOs available. New features! Darkfall has it's share of them...and most have not been tested in any way in the MMO market place. This would have been fine 5-8 years ago, when people did not have certain expectations about MMOs...times have changed. The advancements that Darkfall is offering look fantastic...but they are not going to get the average gamer jumping to play. You need to sell to masses...why make a game if it makes no money...it's pointless. If only hardcore mmo players will buy and support the game (and they being such a fickle bunch) then the game is going to fail (can you say Vanguard...sure it's still around, but no one can claim it a success).
LOL this reminds me so much of SOE and SWG.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
It is ironic you should bring him up. I don't believe in him either, save maybe that he was a real guy who really died because there were some crazy polotics back then, but not the magical stuff. However, I wish he were real. It makes sense that people would wish he existed because he makes things better. If he were real the whole world would be brighter, things would have more meaning, everything would be better.
The same goes for Darkfall. If it were released, the way they say it will be, it would be the holy grail of video games. I would love it, and play it whenever I could. The fact remains, however, that there is not and has not been any serious indication that any real development is being done.
If we are logical creatures, and I hope that we are, this can mean either of only two things:
1) The people making the game do not know how to market, and do not know that players and prospective players need updates to let them know that something is actually happening behind the curtain during development. They either were never told this, and no one there knows this, and/or they have no one whose job it is to make sure potential players know what is going on, or they simply don't care.
2) They really don't have anything to show us because they have no money and no people and no real code to make a decent game from.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
An example of a flawless but might be an untrue logical statement
a). Small companies cannot make good games
b). Aventurine is a small company
c) Aventurine cannot make good games
Your strong statement of "this can mean either of only two things" is logical surly but may be ultimately wrong all the same because you don't even consider the possibility that a firm can have such a big confidence in their product that they don't belive using resources on marketing right now. That it is better used on actually making the game in stead of handholding the fans.
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And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
A logical creature would have given logic then the conclusions but you've done nothing of the sort.
A logical creature would have given logic then the conclusions but you've done nothing of the sort.
Look at how other companies conduct their development. They gradually dole out things to keep potential players interested, and remind those people that work is in fact being done, and that the game is progessing. Darkfall has been in production for many years and the available information is pretty much the same. Even the FAQs have changed very very little in over a year. This is just not the way a company that is doing things operates. They change things, they update with new information, they keep people in the loop. Darkfall has not kept people in the loop.
As for Xris, I did not consider that possibility, but it is certainly something to think about, and could probably fall into my Number 1. They don't care to do the things most companies do.
However, Xris, there are things called logical fallacies, and your small company example is one. I cannot remember the official name for it, but it is something in Latin, and I never bothered to remember my Latin. But it is something about baselessness. In order to assert a proposition in traditional deductive reasoning, which you are using, you have to have a primary proposition that is incontestable. Small companies make poor games is easily contestable and thus the basis of the logic flawed and the following statements are known as "baseless" and cannot be used.
Neverthe less, while your latter statment is possible, it is very unlikely. Most businessmen understand how people work, and know that you have to keep your potential buyers interested or they will move on. Just as people are doing now, and did before, moving on to Everquest or some other equally unappealing game, but they exist, and Darkfall does not. If they choose not to promote themselves, they are probably not very bright. If they are not very bright, they probably cannot make a decent game.
That's inductive reasoning.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
This is from a interview a couple of years ago. Yes, it has some faulty beta info (again) but it may also say something about how the devs think about the issue;
link: http://rpgvault.ign.com/articles/671/671666p1.html
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Jonric: What considerations led to your decision to remain pretty quiet about the game for the past year or more?
Tasos Flambouras: Regrettably, we've had to pass up many publicity opportunities in the past year, due to the hardcore development focus, the limited showcase capability, and the very limited time to spend time on anything other than development.
But the main reason is that we decided that it's time to show Darkfall, rather than keep talking about it - we believe that it will speak for itself better than we ever could. It's also impossible to compete head-on with the coverage and the professional buzz generated by marketing, media, and PR departments working for the 'big games'. We've dedicated our resources to development, knowing that our game can compete a lot better than our publicity can. Once we've shown what we can do, I believe that what we say will make a bigger impact.
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Internet makes it easier to market things, especially if it is a market that is actually looking for their product. When and if Darkfall gets out, you will know it, I can almost guarantee it
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And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
You hit me with a curveball again!
I hadn't thought of it that way really, either. They are a very small team, and there is the third possibility that they simply don't have the time to talk to the publicity people because they need to focus on making the game. If this is the correct option, it may be the best. This probably means they are really serious about those over-the-top promises they have made, and really want the game to be flat-out awesome. If they really want to deliver on those promises, it would take a massive ammount of intricate code and testing to make sure it doesn't blow up the second you try to use it.
I really, suddenly, hope I am wrong and you are right because if this is the case, then maybe they really do have something up their sleeves after all. I am still timid about this, but you just really turned my thinking around, and I think there is an outside chance the game will come out. I know from the PR stuff they have put out, if they can do what they say they can do, they will have my money each month. Maybe if enough people are willing to put up the cash for a game like thta, developers will see that there is money to be made in making a game that isn't...for lack of a better term, "carebear."
It just has to come out for that to happen.
*crosses fingers*
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Norway is a prett nice place to live and 10 norwegians don't just pack up their backpacks and families and leave it's shores if they are not going to do something they belive in. If they are crooks, they must be the most inefficient crooks I have heard about
They have been over there now for over 4 years , hopefully working for something that will blow our minds.
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And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Norway is also one of the most expensive places in the world to live. Your money probably goes further nearly anywhere else. Still, even though I've expressed my doubts about this game, I have no idea what's happening with it really. I'm all guess work on this one. If they are accomplishing their goal, more frequent updated info would probably do them a world of good. No news is really not good news in this case.
Look at games like Dark & Light, Mourning, Roma VIctor. The people who made those games weren't crooks. But in the end, they simply didn't have the talent and expertise to pull those games off.
QFT.
Maybe they can pull it off, maybe not.
The cat running in straight lines points to no.
The infrequent and crappy updates point to no.
The fact that the mods get all excited and say stuff like "OMG, WE HAVE PROOF THAT THERE IS ACTUALLY A GAME." points to no.
When people wet themselves because the devs prove that there is, in fact, a game in progress.... not a good sign.
On the other hand, the grass looked GREAT.
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Its funny how people who hate Darkfall spend so much time talking about Darkfall.
I guess being a fat troll means having no friends, no girls, and nothing better to do than spew hate on internet forums..
Hence why you dont have the money.
My gaming blog
I have to say, that's a fairly large generalization when it comes to Shadowbane. Actually, I think it's wrong as well. I play Shadowbane and I just have to disagree. The people I play with, in my guild, aren't anywhere NEAR the "lowest of the low of the social rejects." As a matter of fact, I've met far worse in World of Warcraft. Don't generalize a game like that. Honestly, I doubt you've even played. If you have, perhaps you just ran into a bad streak of people (it happens in every game).
But on topic, I won't claim Darkfall is never coming out until they themselves announce it will never come out. It's not like I'm paying to wait or anything, so why is it that people are so intent on flaming the game?
Regardless, I'll wait for Darkfall until it's released or canceled, just like I have Duke Nukem Forever.
They want the players to find and figure out things themselves. They have reminded us that work is being done they've shown us alot of progress they made. Or is that not evidence? Yes they show us some of the things they update and give us info to keep us interested. I think you mean "This is just not the way a company that is doing things operates NORMALLY." But just incase you've may have missed it DF is not a normal game.
The FAQ's are basic information for the game. So no unless they make a big change their isnt going to be a lot of changes to it.
If they did things like a every other normal company they would have made a simple point-click game. The reason those companies do that is to show that its different from the 100+ point-click games. DF is not your normal game so it doesnt need to have all the information out especially since it could possibly be changed or tweaked.
I think they have better things to do with their time then to promote themselves when they can be working on the game. They can promote during beta and it seems like a lot of mmo players seem to at least heard of darkfall.
Perhaps but their other contracts require them to have such skill and if they werent good enough those contracts would have went to another company.
Yea your right they should just stop developing the game to take the time to write up an article and a long-ass gameplay vid because thats a great way to waste their resources.
The mods do not act like taht and those are only a small minority your talking about.
Geez... how long could it take to give people an update once every week or so? I just figure when you hear nothing for months that they're all busy with their day jobs. That sure doesn't keep them on the top of my list of games to remember.