Look at WoW, what percent of players are hardcore into the Endgame and constantly getting places with no desire to PVP. 5%?
What percent is in the arena's and battlegrounds. At least 50%
When the die hard pvpers of WoW see the much better pvp system of a superior pvp game they will leave WoW for it. Dark Age was pvp focused and its failing point was the fact it was extremely long and tedious to level.
The biggest challenge for a developer in a PVP game is keeping the game balanced.
If one class is overpowered, people will re-roll to that class in droves. I saw this in L2 quite a bit. But, more importantly, the developers have to uphold the integrity of the game. It is amazing the shortcuts players will go to so that their character can become "uber". I will always play the game as it is intended to be played. Unfortunately, in games like Lineage 2, this means that I got left in the dust and spent a long time catching up. Thank goodness I enjoy a challenge . . and boy, was it a challenge! Here's hoping that WAR is a legit masterpiece!
Look at WoW, what percent of players are hardcore into the Endgame and constantly getting places with no desire to PVP. 5%? What percent is in the arena's and battlegrounds. At least 50% When the die hard pvpers of WoW see the much better pvp system of a superior pvp game they will leave WoW for it. Dark Age was pvp focused and its failing point was the fact it was extremely long and tedious to level.
QFT. Even though WoW is primarily a PvE first, PvP second game, players still prefer PvP over raiding. Blizzard knows this and have been vigorously promoting their PvP through advertising their arena ladder matches and encouraging players to participate by giving out far superior arena rewards as compared to rare and epic PvP battleground rewards. I think they are doing this for a good reason...WAR is coming and its PvP will be highly competetive with other MMO's PvP including WoW's extremely shallow PvP.
Look at WoW, what percent of players are hardcore into the Endgame and constantly getting places with no desire to PVP. 5%? What percent is in the arena's and battlegrounds. At least 50% When the die hard pvpers of WoW see the much better pvp system of a superior pvp game they will leave WoW for it. Dark Age was pvp focused and its failing point was the fact it was extremely long and tedious to level.
QFT. Even though WoW is primarily a PvE first, PvP second game, players still prefer PvP over raiding. Blizzard knows this and have been vigorously promoting their PvP through advertising their arena ladder matches and encouraging players to participate by giving out far superior arena rewards as compared to rare and epic PvP battleground rewards. I think they are doing this for a good reason...WAR is coming and its PvP will be highly competetive with other MMO's PvP including WoW's extremely shallow PvP.
Definitely. Alterac Valley and Arathi Basin were the most fun elements of that game--especially when compared to the slow, clunky timesinks of endgame raid dungeons like MC and BWL. PvE endgame was all about using one of two or three cookie cutter strategies to down the bosses and make your way through the dungeons. At least with PvP, there was some spontaneity and variation depending on who you were facing and who was on your team.
To the OP: Come back one month after the release. We'll see if you're right or not.
If you told someone who played MMORPGs 4 years ago that a single MMORPG could get 9 million subscribers they would have lauched in your face.
MMORPGs are evolving, Mythic is trying to make a game that is part of that evolution. Claiming that there's no way it can work is premature at this point and one might find oneself in the same boat as those who thought a casual-friendly MMORPG never could possibily succeed.
To the OP: Come back one month after the release. We'll see if you're right or not. If you told someone who played MMORPGs 4 years ago that a single MMORPG could get 9 million subscribers they would have lauched in your face. MMORPGs are evolving, Mythic is trying to make a game that is part of that evolution. Claiming that there's no way it can work is premature at this point and one might find oneself in the same boat as those who thought a casual-friendly MMORPG never could possibily succeed.
QFT
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
Originally posted by anubisss WAR IS COMINGOriginally posted by b4t3m4n
Originally posted by sekira
Never have... never will. Those that have tried....have they been successful? Maybe to a minimal extent, but relative to very successful games? No. Name some good mmorpgs games based mostly on PvP? Anyone? The majority of mmorpg players DO NOT PVP, so a business approach to cater about 80% to PvP'ers will not doubt doom this game. This leaves you with a smaller community of players who will simply get frustrated by PvP'ing the majority of the time. Minimal PvE content will eventually force a player to PvP to successfully progress in the game... instead of allowing the player to choose to pvp on his/her own. What does that leave you with? A game with 1/10th or less the population compared to another mmorpg that actually has a business approach that makes sense. What a horrible flaw by Mythic. MMORPGs were never made to be solely PVP based because it's nearly impossible to have good PVP balance. Usually... it's horrible and people would die for semi-good. This is why very few people pvp 24/7 in these types of games and most never will. But what is that... your game lacks alternative gameplay for those who don't feel like PvP'ing every second? I'm not saying this game doesn't have a chance of being a decent PvP game....but the odds are against it due to design flaws and it won't be nearly successful compared to most mmorpgs of the next generation because it fails to attract the type of people who play these games.
What I dont get is why you decided to post this? Your opinion is noted, thanks for stopping in and having a chat. We appreciate it.
on a side note, warhammer being mostly pve would do a complete injustice to everything warhammer stands for
Mythic are not Blizzard and WILL not bow down to whining PVE elitist who are scared of PVP because it exposes just how SHIT they are at any real competition.
Wow... You talk about PvEers (granted "not all" as you amended at the end there) being elitists right in the same breath as a comment like that. Does the irony flow freely here or what?
Has it occured to you that some players simply don't want to have to deal with the idiots that PvP games tend to attract; whose single goal is to gank and corpse-camp players 20+ levels lower than them, then stand there and gloat about how much of a "n00b" the lower player is? Yeah... that's not elitist. That's just pathetic and juvenile. Especially when those same players run at the sight of anyone who could actually pose a challenge to them.
I wouldn't stand too proudly on the whole PvP'ers thing.. There's plenty of elitist pricks in your corner, too. And they're the ones who are actually ruining it for those who do enjoy PvP as a challenge - not a gank-fest.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I mean why would you want to play a game where the majority of it you kill AI controlled things i mean whats the point in that its basically singleplayer with a few people who can help you kill AI PLAYERS!
Shown by alot of surveys anyway most/same amount of the fans enjoy games with good PvP, it gives you something else to do and with WAR's background to the game etc its gonna be beautiful rather than rep grind on mobs, why not get your rep up owning the enemy.
your blatantly just someone who finds PvP too hard so your gonna go kill starting area mobs.
Wow... intolerant much?
You should really refrain from posting. You're not helping the PvP agenda at all with ignorant drivel like that.
Here's a question for you... Do you play any single player games? RPGs? FPSs? Anything? Do you not fight against AI that becomes predictable and easier to kill over time in those games? Does it stop you from playing them?
Even if you personally don't play those types of games... I hope you have the intellectual honesty, and knowledge enough of the world you live in, to acknowledge that millions of others do. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Now take that concept and bring it into a game where you are grouping with others to take on similar challenges. That is what a PvE game is, with some varieties on the types of challenges you take on. Plain and simple.
It's a different playstyle. Nothing more. No one is "hiding" from PvP by playing a PvE game. That's about as logically sound as an old co-worker in my high-school years stating "People only join Marching Band because they couldn't get onto the Football Team".
Most people are avoiding it like you would avoid a room full of bratty screaming kids, posturing and smack-talking - because that's often what PvP games tend to turn into. 1.5 years of Lineage 2 experience alone has proven that to me.
Neither is mutually exclusive. I enjoy PvP. I also enjoy PvE. Sometimes I feel like doing one... sometimes the other.
You really need to take the blinders off.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I mean why would you want to play a game where the majority of it you kill AI controlled things i mean whats the point in that its basically singleplayer with a few people who can help you kill AI PLAYERS!
Shown by alot of surveys anyway most/same amount of the fans enjoy games with good PvP, it gives you something else to do and with WAR's background to the game etc its gonna be beautiful rather than rep grind on mobs, why not get your rep up owning the enemy.
your blatantly just someone who finds PvP too hard so your gonna go kill starting area mobs.
Wow... intolerant much?
You should really refrain from posting. You're not helping the PvP agenda at all with ignorant drivel like that.
Here's a question for you... Do you play any single player games? RPGs? FPSs? Anything? Do you not fight against AI that becomes predictable and easier to kill over time in those games? Does it stop you from playing them?
Even if you personally don't play those types of games... I hope you have the intellectual honesty, and knowledge enough of the world you live in, to acknowledge that millions of others do. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Now take that concept and bring it into a game where you are grouping with others to take on similar challenges. That is what a PvE game is, with some varieties on the types of challenges you take on. Plain and simple.
It's a different playstyle. Nothing more. No one is "hiding" from PvP by playing a PvE game. That's about as logically sound as an old co-worker in my high-school years stating "People only join Marching Band because they couldn't get onto the Football Team".
Most people are avoiding it like you would avoid a room full of bratty screaming kids, posturing and smack-talking - because that's often what PvP games tend to turn into. 1.5 years of Lineage 2 experience alone has proven that to me.
Neither is mutually exclusive. I enjoy PvP. I also enjoy PvE. Sometimes I feel like doing one... sometimes the other.
You really need to take the blinders off.
Yet again, QFT
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
Wow... intolerant much? You should really refrain from posting. You're not helping the PvP agenda at all with ignorant drivel like that. Here's a question for you... Do you play any single player games? RPGs? FPSs? Anything? Do you not fight against AI that becomes predictable and easier to kill over time in those games? Does it stop you from playing them? Even if you personally don't play those types of games... I hope you have the intellectual honesty, and knowledge enough of the world you live in, to acknowledge that millions of others do. And there's nothing wrong with that. Now take that concept and bring it into a game where you are grouping with others to take on similar challenges. That is what a PvE game is, with some varieties on the types of challenges you take on. Plain and simple. It's a different playstyle. Nothing more. No one is "hiding" from PvP by playing a PvE game. That's about as logically sound as an old co-worker in my high-school years stating "People only join Marching Band because they couldn't get onto the Football Team". Most people are avoiding it like you would avoid a room full of bratty screaming kids, posturing and smack-talking - because that's often what PvP games tend to turn into. 1.5 years of Lineage 2 experience alone has proven that to me. Neither is mutually exclusive. I enjoy PvP. I also enjoy PvE. Sometimes I feel like doing one... sometimes the other. You really need to take the blinders off.
You really can't compare single player games to a PvE MMOG. How many single player games have you played that requires you to kill the same AI months on end for a 0.1% drop rate? I agree that PvE is fun, but MMO's take it too far and it's too repetitive for me to kill the same AI that many times.
As stated many times by EA Mythic, you can play this game entirely PvE, or PvP - you have a choice. That's the choice that lacks in most MMOG's, and those that have tried so far have failed. They either have a great PvE system and a rubbish PvP system, or visa versa.
I love the sound of PvE in Warhammer, as it makes sense. Kill a bunch of bears on your way to a quest giver, and he will know you've done that already and will reward you for it, instead of telling you to do it all again. Kill a bear, get a bear paw... those who've played WoW will know how boring it is to kill those Bloodscalp guys for their ears, you can see their ears but it still doesn't drop!
Never have... never will. Those that have tried....have they been successful? Maybe to a minimal extent, but relative to very successful games? No. Name some good mmorpgs games based mostly on PvP? Anyone? The majority of mmorpg players DO NOT PVP, so a business approach to cater about 80% to PvP'ers will not doubt doom this game. This leaves you with a smaller community of players who will simply get frustrated by PvP'ing the majority of the time. Minimal PvE content will eventually force a player to PvP to successfully progress in the game... instead of allowing the player to choose to pvp on his/her own. What does that leave you with? A game with 1/10th or less the population compared to another mmorpg that actually has a business approach that makes sense. What a horrible flaw by Mythic. MMORPGs were never made to be solely PVP based because it's nearly impossible to have good PVP balance. Usually... it's horrible and people would die for semi-good. This is why very few people pvp 24/7 in these types of games and most never will. But what is that... your game lacks alternative gameplay for those who don't feel like PvP'ing every second? I'm not saying this game doesn't have a chance of being a decent PvP game....but the odds are against it due to design flaws and it won't be nearly successful compared to most mmorpgs of the next generation because it fails to attract the type of people who play these games.
Yep, your right, i'll bet that's why WAR has the highst hype on MMORPG.
i actually think they could do very well. A PvP based game like fury and games like Rakion and Gunz allow someone not wanting to go into a 1 hour instance when they have 10 mins just to get into a quick match just for fun.
Seriously the market has proven MMOs need a good mix of both to be successful. That is why every MMO to date has added PvP in some form after release if not included at release. I think you would be hard press to find a game that did not include a form of PvP within 6 months of release.
This argument is idiotic.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
*yawn*... hasn't this thread died yet? Seriously the market has proven MMOs need a good mix of both to be successful. That is why every MMO to date has added PvP in some form after release if not included at release. I think you would be hard press to find a game that did not include a form of PvP within 6 months of release. This argument is idiotic.
Im glad you joined in
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
Honestly im thinking theres not gonna be enough good pvp. The fact that you cant kill someone to close to your hunting spot unless your in the right area bothers me. Being ninja is what its all about imo.
Depends on game quality after all. WoW was and still big experiment about how far can PvE attract new players while keeping current ones paying. So i gueess we can only wait and see.
Comments
Counter-Strike?
If other online games can be "PVP focused", I don't see why MMOs can't.
Content Writer for RTSGuru.com
And overall bitter old man.
Look at WoW, what percent of players are hardcore into the Endgame and constantly getting places with no desire to PVP. 5%?
What percent is in the arena's and battlegrounds. At least 50%
When the die hard pvpers of WoW see the much better pvp system of a superior pvp game they will leave WoW for it. Dark Age was pvp focused and its failing point was the fact it was extremely long and tedious to level.
I disagree so strongly with the OP that I feel no need to give a reason.
If one class is overpowered, people will re-roll to that class in droves. I saw this in L2 quite a bit. But, more importantly, the developers have to uphold the integrity of the game. It is amazing the shortcuts players will go to so that their character can become "uber". I will always play the game as it is intended to be played. Unfortunately, in games like Lineage 2, this means that I got left in the dust and spent a long time catching up. Thank goodness I enjoy a challenge . . and boy, was it a challenge! Here's hoping that WAR is a legit masterpiece!
http://aion.24-hrgaming.net
O'noes, I guess I better not buy Warhammer, since it well never work. Thank you Op.
QFT. Even though WoW is primarily a PvE first, PvP second game, players still prefer PvP over raiding. Blizzard knows this and have been vigorously promoting their PvP through advertising their arena ladder matches and encouraging players to participate by giving out far superior arena rewards as compared to rare and epic PvP battleground rewards. I think they are doing this for a good reason...WAR is coming and its PvP will be highly competetive with other MMO's PvP including WoW's extremely shallow PvP.
I can't beat that.
QFT. Even though WoW is primarily a PvE first, PvP second game, players still prefer PvP over raiding. Blizzard knows this and have been vigorously promoting their PvP through advertising their arena ladder matches and encouraging players to participate by giving out far superior arena rewards as compared to rare and epic PvP battleground rewards. I think they are doing this for a good reason...WAR is coming and its PvP will be highly competetive with other MMO's PvP including WoW's extremely shallow PvP.
Definitely. Alterac Valley and Arathi Basin were the most fun elements of that game--especially when compared to the slow, clunky timesinks of endgame raid dungeons like MC and BWL. PvE endgame was all about using one of two or three cookie cutter strategies to down the bosses and make your way through the dungeons. At least with PvP, there was some spontaneity and variation depending on who you were facing and who was on your team.
Comparing everything to WoW is the OP's mistake. Every PvE game before WoW was, by the OP's standards, unsuccessful.
WoW's success does not mean that every game has to be PvE to be successful.
To the OP: Come back one month after the release. We'll see if you're right or not.
If you told someone who played MMORPGs 4 years ago that a single MMORPG could get 9 million subscribers they would have lauched in your face.
MMORPGs are evolving, Mythic is trying to make a game that is part of that evolution. Claiming that there's no way it can work is premature at this point and one might find oneself in the same boat as those who thought a casual-friendly MMORPG never could possibily succeed.
QFT
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
What I dont get is why you decided to post this? Your opinion is noted, thanks for stopping in and having a chat. We appreciate it.
on a side note, warhammer being mostly pve would do a complete injustice to everything warhammer stands for
Mythic are not Blizzard and WILL not bow down to whining PVE elitist who are scared of PVP because it exposes just how SHIT they are at any real competition.
Wow... You talk about PvEers (granted "not all" as you amended at the end there) being elitists right in the same breath as a comment like that. Does the irony flow freely here or what?
Has it occured to you that some players simply don't want to have to deal with the idiots that PvP games tend to attract; whose single goal is to gank and corpse-camp players 20+ levels lower than them, then stand there and gloat about how much of a "n00b" the lower player is? Yeah... that's not elitist. That's just pathetic and juvenile. Especially when those same players run at the sight of anyone who could actually pose a challenge to them.
I wouldn't stand too proudly on the whole PvP'ers thing.. There's plenty of elitist pricks in your corner, too. And they're the ones who are actually ruining it for those who do enjoy PvP as a challenge - not a gank-fest.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Wow... intolerant much?
You should really refrain from posting. You're not helping the PvP agenda at all with ignorant drivel like that.
Here's a question for you... Do you play any single player games? RPGs? FPSs? Anything? Do you not fight against AI that becomes predictable and easier to kill over time in those games? Does it stop you from playing them?
Even if you personally don't play those types of games... I hope you have the intellectual honesty, and knowledge enough of the world you live in, to acknowledge that millions of others do. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Now take that concept and bring it into a game where you are grouping with others to take on similar challenges. That is what a PvE game is, with some varieties on the types of challenges you take on. Plain and simple.
It's a different playstyle. Nothing more. No one is "hiding" from PvP by playing a PvE game. That's about as logically sound as an old co-worker in my high-school years stating "People only join Marching Band because they couldn't get onto the Football Team".
Most people are avoiding it like you would avoid a room full of bratty screaming kids, posturing and smack-talking - because that's often what PvP games tend to turn into. 1.5 years of Lineage 2 experience alone has proven that to me.
Neither is mutually exclusive. I enjoy PvP. I also enjoy PvE. Sometimes I feel like doing one... sometimes the other.
You really need to take the blinders off.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Wow... intolerant much?
You should really refrain from posting. You're not helping the PvP agenda at all with ignorant drivel like that.
Here's a question for you... Do you play any single player games? RPGs? FPSs? Anything? Do you not fight against AI that becomes predictable and easier to kill over time in those games? Does it stop you from playing them?
Even if you personally don't play those types of games... I hope you have the intellectual honesty, and knowledge enough of the world you live in, to acknowledge that millions of others do. And there's nothing wrong with that.
Now take that concept and bring it into a game where you are grouping with others to take on similar challenges. That is what a PvE game is, with some varieties on the types of challenges you take on. Plain and simple.
It's a different playstyle. Nothing more. No one is "hiding" from PvP by playing a PvE game. That's about as logically sound as an old co-worker in my high-school years stating "People only join Marching Band because they couldn't get onto the Football Team".
Most people are avoiding it like you would avoid a room full of bratty screaming kids, posturing and smack-talking - because that's often what PvP games tend to turn into. 1.5 years of Lineage 2 experience alone has proven that to me.
Neither is mutually exclusive. I enjoy PvP. I also enjoy PvE. Sometimes I feel like doing one... sometimes the other.
You really need to take the blinders off.
Yet again, QFT
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
You really can't compare single player games to a PvE MMOG. How many single player games have you played that requires you to kill the same AI months on end for a 0.1% drop rate? I agree that PvE is fun, but MMO's take it too far and it's too repetitive for me to kill the same AI that many times.
As stated many times by EA Mythic, you can play this game entirely PvE, or PvP - you have a choice. That's the choice that lacks in most MMOG's, and those that have tried so far have failed. They either have a great PvE system and a rubbish PvP system, or visa versa.
I love the sound of PvE in Warhammer, as it makes sense. Kill a bunch of bears on your way to a quest giver, and he will know you've done that already and will reward you for it, instead of telling you to do it all again. Kill a bear, get a bear paw... those who've played WoW will know how boring it is to kill those Bloodscalp guys for their ears, you can see their ears but it still doesn't drop!
-iCeh
Yep, your right, i'll bet that's why WAR has the highst hype on MMORPG.
Whatever helps you sleep at night
i actually think they could do very well. A PvP based game like fury and games like Rakion and Gunz allow someone not wanting to go into a 1 hour instance when they have 10 mins just to get into a quick match just for fun.
*yawn*... hasn't this thread died yet?
Seriously the market has proven MMOs need a good mix of both to be successful. That is why every MMO to date has added PvP in some form after release if not included at release. I think you would be hard press to find a game that did not include a form of PvP within 6 months of release.
This argument is idiotic.
-Atziluth-
- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.
Im glad you joined in
I find it kinda funny, I find it kinda sad, The dreams in which I'm dieing are the best I've ever had.
Honestly im thinking theres not gonna be enough good pvp. The fact that you cant kill someone to close to your hunting spot unless your in the right area bothers me. Being ninja is what its all about imo.
DAoC did really well.
searching for the next DAoC....
Kay-exile
Depends on game quality after all. WoW was and still big experiment about how far can PvE attract new players while keeping current ones paying. So i gueess we can only wait and see.
I wont even bother to explain just how wrong this op is.
To the OP: Every moron is entitled to give their own opinion. Thank you for giving us yours.
PvP-centric doesn't mean it has to shaft and ruins PvE.
Mythic has yet to understand this point.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren