WOW helped raise the bar for release quality, LotRO raised it even higher. (Lineage 2 was a good release before WOW)
I now expect my MMO's to deliver a reasonable amount of functionality that runs cleanly with few bugs and is fun to play. These are not unreasonable expectations I'm not expecting any new game to contain the same number of features as a more mature game.
This is not a fault.....this is for the good of the genre, as the folks at Sigil painfully found out. I will gladly wait 3 or 6 months longer for a polished game.... and would not care if AOC or WAR had to be delayed more than they already have...as long as its good on release.
As to the second point about WOW giving players a leveling as a job mentality, nonsense...that's been a core assumption of almost every MMORPG since EQ, DAOC and UO. There are rewards in every game for players to reach the top...either participation in end game raiding, or ability to participate in high level pvp (or destroy lowbies w/o fear of retribution) and it causes players to feverishly level their characters to reach those goals.
WOW did not start this..... its been with us forever, and is not likely to change any time in near future. (although GW's did a nice job of taking us off the leveling treadmill)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Blizzard is like a a CEO that speaks about clean air and the environment, then turns around and dumps 9million gallons of sewage into the mississippi river.
That is about the best i can put there "stake" on the mmo genre.
Blizzard is like a a CEO that speaks about clean air and the environment, then turns around and dumps 9million gallons of sewage into the mississippi river. That is about the best i can put there "stake" on the mmo genre.
Really? Because they managed to churn out a truly polished and well-released title that has brought needed revenue into the MMO industry? Because they've managed to set a STANDARD that no other game has managed to achieve?
They used the same engine as WC3, The 3d models in WC3 are exactly like the models in WOW . That is amazing that when Turbine used the Ac2 engine for Lotro it was a big hoopla , o noes they using an engine that is old. WOW's engines a probably the most dated engine in any mmo, but yet it is some type of super miracle they where able to create a "polished" game, give me a break.
You blantent disregard for the obvious is really annoying, When WoW was first introduced in 1999 in PC gamer , they had a completely different engine, but then since the engine they started with was to hard to manage, the fell back on the WC3 engine. They use the same engine(modified) for almost 10 years now and yet it is all shock and all that there titles are polished. But again when Turbine does the same thing, a truly mmo based company , it is some kind of crime and they should be hanged.
Your posts are one of hind sight and the lack of knowledge of the development of games is very funny to me , your analysis of my posts are clearly from someone with ties to Blizzard and simply trying to defuse the simple truth of what Blizzard did to mmo genre.
Please, keep the fodder coming cause I have more .....
The game is very middle-of-the-road and bland with shallow depth. Dont get me wrong....it is fun, but so it BackYard Baseball games.
the only thing wow had/has going for it or did unique is : its distribution.
it didnt set any bar, other than creating a new way to distribute Britney Spears style....thats all.
nothing more, nothing less. pure and simple.
most all games will be distributed in such a manner in the future , it pays!
if you distribute on a vast scale..you can sell a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g that is not unique or particulary special.
example of Marketing prowess:
Britney Spears music
Backstreet Boys music
Barney the purple dinosaur Music
Of course...since these were some of the ALL time highest music 'sellers'...they are fully innovative,new and they all rule, .....causing all other music to be doomed!!!...
(ps) marketing can truely sell.....a refrigerator to an eskimo
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
They used the same engine as WC3, The 3d models in WC3 are exactly like the models in WOW . That is amazing that when Turbine used the Ac2 engine for Lotro it was a big hoopla , o noes they using an engine that is old. WOW's engines a probably the most dated engine in any mmo, but yet it is some type of super miracle they where able to create a "polished" game, give me a break.
You blantent disregard for the obvious is really annoying, When WoW was first introduced in 1999 in PC gamer , they had a completely different engine, but then since the engine they started with was to hard to manage, the fell back on the WC3 engine. They use the same engine(modified) for almost 10 years now and yet it is all shock and all that there titles are polished. But again when Turbine does the same thing, a truly mmo based company , it is some kind of crime and they should be hanged.
Your posts are one of hind sight and the lack of knowledge of the development of games is very funny to me , your analysis of my posts are clearly from someone with ties to Blizzard and simply trying to defuse the simple truth of what Blizzard did to mmo genre. Please, keep the fodder coming cause I have more .....
No, really, you're talking crap. You're reacting to me as if I'm viral marketing, whereas I give a fair and pretty much unbiased opinion in view of what companies actually are.
You're reacting as if I'm saying that Blizzard are the be-all and send-all of MMO gaming, whereas I'm just noting what Blizzard did RIGHT, and what others did wrong. And, you're just putting up imaginary flaws in WoW, like it having bad graphics - as if graphics would matter to a true gamer.
Originally posted by Tolwynn
The game is very middle-of-the-road and bland with shallow depth. Dont get me wrong....it is fun, but so it BackYard Baseball games. the only thing wow had/has going for it or did unique is : its distribution. it didnt set any bar, other than creating a new way to distribute Britney Spears style....thats all.
nothing more, nothing less. pure and simple.
most all games will be distributed in such a manner in the future , it pays!
if you distribute on a vast scale..you can sell a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g that is not unique or particulary special.
example of Marketing prowess: Britney Spears music Backstreet Boys music Barney the purple dinosaur Music Of course...since these were some of the ALL time highest music 'sellers'...they are fully innovative,new and they all rule, .....causing all other music to be doomed!!!...
(ps) marketing can truely sell.....a refrigerator to an eskimo
And, the release stability and general game polish? They don't count?
IMO WoW has done nothing but good for the genre. WoW has proved that MMOs can be main stream and brought millions more people into trying these games. With numbers this big its inevitable that you get some 'no0bz' coming in but what game doesn't have them?
And yes it probably has made devs push back their games but this is a good thing. MMOs cost more than any other game to play. Why should we have to start paying for a game when it should still be in beta?
I clearly see the models in the images you showed. Ever hear of thing called "scaling" and "texturing" , thanks for posting those cause you saved me the trouble of digging for them.
When you think about it, WoW has really spoiled the MMO community. For a lot of people, WoW is the default game when the current newer game they are trying fails. Now, everyone looks at new games coming out with such a high standard. MMO developers today are pushing their game launches back to polish them up more (look at Warhammer), because there no longer is that 1-3 month buffer after the game comes out where people stick through the tough times and wait for the game to get better.
Though I agree with the sentiment of much of your post, I found this initial statement to be nuts. WoW spoiled the MMO community because people have higher standards for their games to be playable, polished, and relatively bug-free? Huh? This is a GOOD thing! I think it has less to do with WoW and a lot more to do with the industry evolving. It's not 1999 where the MMORPG is an unchartered, fledgling genre. The bar has been set higher and higher each year, from UO to EVE to WoW to whatever what's around the corner. Though I personally would never take polish OVER content, you better believe I'm not going to support a half-finished, sloppily articulated MMORPG that was released ahead of time just to line the pockets of devs with no business savvy whatsoever. Sure, MMORPGs are always a work-in-progress in some capacity, but I think there's a wide gap between a sandbox and a bag of $h!T.
The OP would have us all paying for crap like DnL or going back to the day's of SOE shoveling out broken and buggy EQ1 raid expansion after raid expansion every 6 months.
Sorry not going to happen for me. I demand quality now and thank god Blizzard and later Turbine have shown that it can be done so. Hopefully Mythic follows this path as well.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
I clearly see the models in the images you showed. Ever hear of thing called "scaling" and "texturing" , thanks for posting those cause you saved me the trouble of digging for them.
*facepalm*
Your point being? I fear that I may have to apply psychology to this discussion...
It seems to me that the general loathing of WoW comes from people being afraid that "noobs" will come and "corrupt" their "sacred zone", and feel invaded by those people - and rabid elitism and fanboyism is born.
None of your arguments make any sense. You're claiming that WoW has "terrible graphics", when it has a certain flair and style compared to other brownscale games. Vanguard, anyone? Never mind the fact that you're trying to take down the game's engine without ANY source material that I can see. To add to this, you're applying graphics to the entire game itself. I admit that the game is pretty dull and lifeless, without any inspiration, but to claim that the graphics are, and the character models themselves, is idiotic.
One of things I find funny is how people make a statement... which is their personal point of view and then put it out like its fact for all.
I don't ever have an issue when someone says *I* don't like this *insert game or feature*. That's a perfectly valid claim because its how they feel. Since games are a subjective experience that's all that matters.
Just when it goes to universal claims:
"all wow players think..."
"wow ruined mmo's"
etc etc
If someone rushes to hit the max level of a game.. it could be that is just how they play. It could be they only enjoy the end game or it could be if the game just launched they want to be the first on ebay... I mean I never knew but every game I've played has had people that do this. That was going on long before wow...
As far as it ruined the community?
I guess at times I would have said the same thing.. but for different reasons.
WoW didn't ruin the community because it has some strangle hold on the market... WoW made other developer companies realize how much market was actually out there. Even if you want to go the "asian subscription" arguement route... No other North American game has done this well over there either.
I mean UO still runs Asian servers... but SOE (par t of a corporation based in Japan amusingly enough) has never had a successful MMO in that area.
Anyway... Developers try to emulate WoW because they think its how they will get the big subscriber numbers.
From my point of view every game that has tried to do that has failed badly... Or they tried to change a game into WoW and failed even worse (swg.. nge...).
I've always hated level based MMO's... UO was my favorite MMO .. and SWG pre-cu was second. The only other MMO I really enjoyed much was DAoC due to the PvP. So WoW is bad for me.. because no one seems interested in making the skill based MMO's anymore. Yet I wouldn't blame Blizzard...
Blame other companies for not actually trying to develop anything..
Don't get me wrong. I understand that we all pay a ridiculous amount of money to play MMO's. You plop down 55-60 for a new game, then you tack on a 15/month subscription fee. Naturally for that monthly fee, we should have higher standards than other games. But, with that said, don't forget that most MMO's take years to develop, and they aren't as easily made as say Madden 200x for your xbox or some FPS game that has a fairly simple rule structure. They are mammoths of code. Expecting these games to be "polished" on launch could mean devs postponing a launch an extra 6 months to a year, just to clean up all of the extra over the top crap they could've added in after launch.
It seems as though the average MMO production time from concept to launch day has increased significantly nowadays. Yesterdays MMO's took 2-3 years to make. Nowadays it's 4-6 because everyone is trying to cram an enormous amount of shit in and make it all super tidy. A lot of it which people are just going to blow by anyways on their rush to max level.
spoiled is to light of word. It ruined the community. It let people into mmo genre who sjhouldn't be here. The area is over flowing with noobs who just because they p[played WoW and only WoW they are the end all be all on mmo discussion. I played a lot of mmos and I would never grant myself the obscenity of telling other that my words are god, and I find most WoW players attitude is that they are the word when it comes to mmos.
Fascinating. So there's certain people who "shouldn't" be allowed to play MMORPGs? And this is based on what? If you're that discriminating and closed to different types of people discovering the genre, perhaps you should stick to single player RPGs or better yet, stick to pen-and-paper games around the kitchen table with the elite few you deem "should be here." I can't stand a good 80% of everyone I meet, and admittedly, that's one of the reasons I enjoy escapist endeavours like MMORPGs so damn much, but that doesn't mean others should be excluded from the community. Sure, it's kind of sucky that MMORPGs are no longer the exclusive safe haven for losers, recluses, and misanthropes, but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.
Looks exactly like WoW, rescale the environment, add a sky map and redo the textures ?
You're still using the crappy argument that I mentioned on the last page. Page 4 is done kk?
Originally posted by Lucifrank
Fascinating. So there's certain people who "shouldn't" be allowed to play MMORPGs? And this is based on what? If you're that discriminating and closed to different types of people discovering the genre, perhaps you should stick to single player RPGs or better yet, stick to pen-and-paper games around the kitchen table with the elite few you deem "should be here." I can't stand a good 80% of everyone I meet, and admittedly, that's one of the reasons I enjoy escapist endeavours like MMORPGs so damn much, but that doesn't mean others should be excluded from the community. Sure, it's kind of sucky that MMORPGs are no longer the exclusive safe haven for losers, recluses, and misanthropes, but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.
See, I wasn't even touching that part of it with a long stick.
spoiled is to light of word. It ruined the community. It let people into mmo genre who sjhouldn't be here. The area is over flowing with noobs who just because they p[played WoW and only WoW they are the end all be all on mmo discussion. I played a lot of mmos and I would never grant myself the obscenity of telling other that my words are god, and I find most WoW players attitude is that they are the word when it comes to mmos.
but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.
I stand by that statement. I got into mmos because of the main branch of the community was not large and the people where usually friendly and entertaining, You had a niche genre witha niche crowd, kind of like a mod community. That is no longer the case, the community is not as what i've known , it is strictly a profit struggle now, no one does anything inside the community that is selfless or charititable anymore. People played mmos because they wanted, not because the commercials looked cool ....
Are you talking about that player base that made golden selling a multi billion a year industry. The player base that is to lazy to level there own characters, the player base that looks to india for cheap leveling services ? Yes , these problems existed before WoW but not on the scale that it is grown to now.
Looks exactly like WoW, rescale the environment, add a sky map and redo the textures ?
You're still using the crappy argument that I mentioned on the last page. Page 4 is done kk?
If you can't see or understand it, I can't help you, you are obviously a WoW fan , the is the end all , be all of mmo genre discussion . You are the WORD of the mmo genre. Hail the WoW players for they are the profits of steaming piles of disillusion and can create grand fabrics of truth which fits into there precieved notions of what gaming in mmo's are.
You are blocked , thanks for your blantent disregard to the obvious.
I stand by that statement. I got into mmos because of the main branch of the community was not large and the people where usually friendly and entertaining, You had a niche genre witha niche crowd, kind of like a mod community. That is no longer the case, the community is not as what i've known , it is strictly a profit struggle now, no one does anything inside the community that is selfless or charititable anymore. People played mmos because they wanted, not because the commercials looked cool ....
Are you talking about that player base that made golden selling a multi billion a year industry. The player base that is to lazy to level there own characters, the player base that looks to india for cheap leveling services ? Yes , these problems existed before WoW but not on the scale that it is grown to now.
And, once again, I give you facepalm. *facepalm*
WoW nearly doubled the amount of MMO players in the Western market, and - therefore - of course it's going to introduce lots of those people. You also ignore coincidental factors, like a rising amount of internet connections and ability for people to go online. Your arguments are based on little more than something you can invent as you go along.
Evidently, you can't find a nice, altruistic group of friends to play with online, like many of us that play/played WoW do have. In the end, I feel sorry for you.
Originally posted by CognetoJoe
If you can't see or understand it, I can't help you, you are obviously a WoW fan , the is the end all , be all of mmo genre discussion . You are the WORD of the mmo genre. Hail the WoW players for they are the profits of steaming piles of disillusion and can create grand fabrics of truth which fits into there precieved notions of what gaming in mmo's are.
You are blocked , thanks for your blantent disregard to the obvious.
WoW was not innovative enough to blame for all the woes of the MMOG genre. Any problem you care to rant about existed before WoW.
As for higher standards, umm, no. WoW certainly doesn't have a corner on that market. Many games have had polished releases -- CoH, EQ2, and several others. Vanguard has no one to blame but its own developers for its lackluster design and slipshod execution. Incompetent management killed VG, not spoiled gamers.
I think wow has raised the standards of MMOs and has encouraged the devs to make well polished games with alot of content. I could care less if the game is pushed back, because its being done so for good reasons, we dont want an incomplete game, if anything thats the only reason why a game would get pushed back. The era of releasing unfinished MMOs is over, a good example of what could have been a good game is Vanguard. It was released incomplete and no one wanted to play it, had they released it later and spend more time to polish it and complete the game there would be alot of people playing it, who knows mabye even me.
All anti wowers can flame me for saying this, I could care less, it is my opinion and im sticking to it, could care less about what negative nancies think.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC -Playing WoW -Retired- SWG -Retired- EVE -Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled) - 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
Yeah, those terrible assholes at Blizzard, by providing a finished working product, have spoiled the MMO market by setting a standard that a game that is ready to play at launch is now expected by the public.
Oh, what inhumanity this is on the part of Blizzard.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
spoiled is to light of word. It ruined the community. It let people into mmo genre who sjhouldn't be here. The area is over flowing with noobs who just because they p[played WoW and only WoW they are the end all be all on mmo discussion. I played a lot of mmos and I would never grant myself the obscenity of telling other that my words are god, and I find most WoW players attitude is that they are the word when it comes to mmos.
but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.
I stand by that statement. I got into mmos because of the main branch of the community was not large and the people where usually friendly and entertaining, You had a niche genre witha niche crowd, kind of like a mod community. That is no longer the case, the community is not as what i've known , it is strictly a profit struggle now, no one does anything inside the community that is selfless or charititable anymore. People played mmos because they wanted, not because the commercials looked cool ....
Are you talking about that player base that made golden selling a multi billion a year industry. The player base that is to lazy to level there own characters, the player base that looks to india for cheap leveling services ? Yes , these problems existed before WoW but not on the scale that it is grown to now.
That post is a broad generalization that pigeonholes a ton of people who your description does not accurately describe. Yes, MMORPGs are no longer a niche genre with a niche crowd, but that community of friendly, entertaining people can be found across the board in any game, regardless of the simplicity or complexity of its game mechanics.
Comments
In response to the OP's two points:
WOW helped raise the bar for release quality, LotRO raised it even higher. (Lineage 2 was a good release before WOW)
I now expect my MMO's to deliver a reasonable amount of functionality that runs cleanly with few bugs and is fun to play. These are not unreasonable expectations I'm not expecting any new game to contain the same number of features as a more mature game.
This is not a fault.....this is for the good of the genre, as the folks at Sigil painfully found out. I will gladly wait 3 or 6 months longer for a polished game.... and would not care if AOC or WAR had to be delayed more than they already have...as long as its good on release.
As to the second point about WOW giving players a leveling as a job mentality, nonsense...that's been a core assumption of almost every MMORPG since EQ, DAOC and UO. There are rewards in every game for players to reach the top...either participation in end game raiding, or ability to participate in high level pvp (or destroy lowbies w/o fear of retribution) and it causes players to feverishly level their characters to reach those goals.
WOW did not start this..... its been with us forever, and is not likely to change any time in near future. (although GW's did a nice job of taking us off the leveling treadmill)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Blizzard is like a a CEO that speaks about clean air and the environment, then turns around and dumps 9million gallons of sewage into the mississippi river.
That is about the best i can put there "stake" on the mmo genre.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
That analogy makes no sense.
They used the same engine as WC3, The 3d models in WC3 are exactly like the models in WOW . That is amazing that when Turbine used the Ac2 engine for Lotro it was a big hoopla , o noes they using an engine that is old. WOW's engines a probably the most dated engine in any mmo, but yet it is some type of super miracle they where able to create a "polished" game, give me a break.You blantent disregard for the obvious is really annoying, When WoW was first introduced in 1999 in PC gamer , they had a completely different engine, but then since the engine they started with was to hard to manage, the fell back on the WC3 engine. They use the same engine(modified) for almost 10 years now and yet it is all shock and all that there titles are polished. But again when Turbine does the same thing, a truly mmo based company , it is some kind of crime and they should be hanged.
Your posts are one of hind sight and the lack of knowledge of the development of games is very funny to me , your analysis of my posts are clearly from someone with ties to Blizzard and simply trying to defuse the simple truth of what Blizzard did to mmo genre.
Please, keep the fodder coming cause I have more .....
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
The game is very middle-of-the-road and bland with shallow depth. Dont get me wrong....it is fun, but so it BackYard Baseball games.
the only thing wow had/has going for it or did unique is : its distribution.
it didnt set any bar, other than creating a new way to distribute Britney Spears style....thats all.
nothing more, nothing less. pure and simple.
most all games will be distributed in such a manner in the future , it pays!
if you distribute on a vast scale..you can sell a-n-y-t-h-i-n-g that is not unique or particulary special.
example of Marketing prowess:
Britney Spears music
Backstreet Boys music
Barney the purple dinosaur Music
Of course...since these were some of the ALL time highest music 'sellers'...they are fully innovative,new and they all rule, .....causing all other music to be doomed!!!...
(ps) marketing can truely sell.....a refrigerator to an eskimo
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
---------------------------
<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p138/hrwthr/Paladin/T5_Paladin_Human.jpg - Yeah, I really see it.
http://www.battle.net/war3/human/units/paladin.shtml
http://wow.duowan.com/uimg/2006/11/14/dandan/40916_T5_Warrior_Orc_122_512lo_61130.jpg - There, too!
http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/blademaster.shtml
http://www.transolar.com/current%20art/p_wow_mojo_datooth2.jpg - And there!
http://www.battle.net/war3/orc/units/shadowhunter.shtml
No, really, you're talking crap. You're reacting to me as if I'm viral marketing, whereas I give a fair and pretty much unbiased opinion in view of what companies actually are.
You're reacting as if I'm saying that Blizzard are the be-all and send-all of MMO gaming, whereas I'm just noting what Blizzard did RIGHT, and what others did wrong. And, you're just putting up imaginary flaws in WoW, like it having bad graphics - as if graphics would matter to a true gamer.
And, the release stability and general game polish? They don't count?
IMO WoW has done nothing but good for the genre. WoW has proved that MMOs can be main stream and brought millions more people into trying these games. With numbers this big its inevitable that you get some 'no0bz' coming in but what game doesn't have them?
And yes it probably has made devs push back their games but this is a good thing. MMOs cost more than any other game to play. Why should we have to start paying for a game when it should still be in beta?
I clearly see the models in the images you showed. Ever hear of thing called "scaling" and "texturing" , thanks for posting those cause you saved me the trouble of digging for them.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
The OP would have us all paying for crap like DnL or going back to the day's of SOE shoveling out broken and buggy EQ1 raid expansion after raid expansion every 6 months.
Sorry not going to happen for me. I demand quality now and thank god Blizzard and later Turbine have shown that it can be done so. Hopefully Mythic follows this path as well.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Looks exactly like WoW, rescale the environment, add a sky map and redo the textures ?
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
I clearly see the models in the images you showed. Ever hear of thing called "scaling" and "texturing" , thanks for posting those cause you saved me the trouble of digging for them.
*facepalm*
Your point being? I fear that I may have to apply psychology to this discussion...
It seems to me that the general loathing of WoW comes from people being afraid that "noobs" will come and "corrupt" their "sacred zone", and feel invaded by those people - and rabid elitism and fanboyism is born.
None of your arguments make any sense. You're claiming that WoW has "terrible graphics", when it has a certain flair and style compared to other brownscale games. Vanguard, anyone? Never mind the fact that you're trying to take down the game's engine without ANY source material that I can see. To add to this, you're applying graphics to the entire game itself. I admit that the game is pretty dull and lifeless, without any inspiration, but to claim that the graphics are, and the character models themselves, is idiotic.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Having read most of this thread...
One of things I find funny is how people make a statement... which is their personal point of view and then put it out like its fact for all.
I don't ever have an issue when someone says *I* don't like this *insert game or feature*. That's a perfectly valid claim because its how they feel. Since games are a subjective experience that's all that matters.
Just when it goes to universal claims:
"all wow players think..."
"wow ruined mmo's"
etc etc
If someone rushes to hit the max level of a game.. it could be that is just how they play. It could be they only enjoy the end game or it could be if the game just launched they want to be the first on ebay... I mean I never knew but every game I've played has had people that do this. That was going on long before wow...
As far as it ruined the community?
I guess at times I would have said the same thing.. but for different reasons.
WoW didn't ruin the community because it has some strangle hold on the market... WoW made other developer companies realize how much market was actually out there. Even if you want to go the "asian subscription" arguement route... No other North American game has done this well over there either.
I mean UO still runs Asian servers... but SOE (par t of a corporation based in Japan amusingly enough) has never had a successful MMO in that area.
Anyway... Developers try to emulate WoW because they think its how they will get the big subscriber numbers.
From my point of view every game that has tried to do that has failed badly... Or they tried to change a game into WoW and failed even worse (swg.. nge...).
I've always hated level based MMO's... UO was my favorite MMO .. and SWG pre-cu was second. The only other MMO I really enjoyed much was DAoC due to the PvP. So WoW is bad for me.. because no one seems interested in making the skill based MMO's anymore. Yet I wouldn't blame Blizzard...
Blame other companies for not actually trying to develop anything..
Don't get me wrong. I understand that we all pay a ridiculous amount of money to play MMO's. You plop down 55-60 for a new game, then you tack on a 15/month subscription fee. Naturally for that monthly fee, we should have higher standards than other games. But, with that said, don't forget that most MMO's take years to develop, and they aren't as easily made as say Madden 200x for your xbox or some FPS game that has a fairly simple rule structure. They are mammoths of code. Expecting these games to be "polished" on launch could mean devs postponing a launch an extra 6 months to a year, just to clean up all of the extra over the top crap they could've added in after launch.
It seems as though the average MMO production time from concept to launch day has increased significantly nowadays. Yesterdays MMO's took 2-3 years to make. Nowadays it's 4-6 because everyone is trying to cram an enormous amount of shit in and make it all super tidy. A lot of it which people are just going to blow by anyways on their rush to max level.
Fascinating. So there's certain people who "shouldn't" be allowed to play MMORPGs? And this is based on what? If you're that discriminating and closed to different types of people discovering the genre, perhaps you should stick to single player RPGs or better yet, stick to pen-and-paper games around the kitchen table with the elite few you deem "should be here." I can't stand a good 80% of everyone I meet, and admittedly, that's one of the reasons I enjoy escapist endeavours like MMORPGs so damn much, but that doesn't mean others should be excluded from the community. Sure, it's kind of sucky that MMORPGs are no longer the exclusive safe haven for losers, recluses, and misanthropes, but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.
You're still using the crappy argument that I mentioned on the last page. Page 4 is done kk?
See, I wasn't even touching that part of it with a long stick.
WOW does have terrible graphics and yes graphics do matter to this true MMO gammer.
So let's recap..
WOW Gameplay=Great / Fun.
WOW Graphics=Bad.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.
I stand by that statement. I got into mmos because of the main branch of the community was not large and the people where usually friendly and entertaining, You had a niche genre witha niche crowd, kind of like a mod community. That is no longer the case, the community is not as what i've known , it is strictly a profit struggle now, no one does anything inside the community that is selfless or charititable anymore. People played mmos because they wanted, not because the commercials looked cool ....Are you talking about that player base that made golden selling a multi billion a year industry. The player base that is to lazy to level there own characters, the player base that looks to india for cheap leveling services ? Yes , these problems existed before WoW but not on the scale that it is grown to now.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
You're still using the crappy argument that I mentioned on the last page. Page 4 is done kk?
If you can't see or understand it, I can't help you, you are obviously a WoW fan , the is the end all , be all of mmo genre discussion . You are the WORD of the mmo genre. Hail the WoW players for they are the profits of steaming piles of disillusion and can create grand fabrics of truth which fits into there precieved notions of what gaming in mmo's are.
You are blocked , thanks for your blantent disregard to the obvious.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
And, once again, I give you facepalm. *facepalm*
WoW nearly doubled the amount of MMO players in the Western market, and - therefore - of course it's going to introduce lots of those people. You also ignore coincidental factors, like a rising amount of internet connections and ability for people to go online. Your arguments are based on little more than something you can invent as you go along.
Evidently, you can't find a nice, altruistic group of friends to play with online, like many of us that play/played WoW do have. In the end, I feel sorry for you.
My previous statements are, evidently, correct.
WoW was not innovative enough to blame for all the woes of the MMOG genre. Any problem you care to rant about existed before WoW.
As for higher standards, umm, no. WoW certainly doesn't have a corner on that market. Many games have had polished releases -- CoH, EQ2, and several others. Vanguard has no one to blame but its own developers for its lackluster design and slipshod execution. Incompetent management killed VG, not spoiled gamers.
I think wow has raised the standards of MMOs and has encouraged the devs to make well polished games with alot of content. I could care less if the game is pushed back, because its being done so for good reasons, we dont want an incomplete game, if anything thats the only reason why a game would get pushed back. The era of releasing unfinished MMOs is over, a good example of what could have been a good game is Vanguard. It was released incomplete and no one wanted to play it, had they released it later and spend more time to polish it and complete the game there would be alot of people playing it, who knows mabye even me.
All anti wowers can flame me for saying this, I could care less, it is my opinion and im sticking to it, could care less about what negative nancies think.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC
-Playing WoW
-Retired- SWG
-Retired- EVE
-Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled)
- 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
Yeah, those terrible assholes at Blizzard, by providing a finished working product, have spoiled the MMO market by setting a standard that a game that is ready to play at launch is now expected by the public.
Oh, what inhumanity this is on the part of Blizzard.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.
I stand by that statement. I got into mmos because of the main branch of the community was not large and the people where usually friendly and entertaining, You had a niche genre witha niche crowd, kind of like a mod community. That is no longer the case, the community is not as what i've known , it is strictly a profit struggle now, no one does anything inside the community that is selfless or charititable anymore. People played mmos because they wanted, not because the commercials looked cool ....Are you talking about that player base that made golden selling a multi billion a year industry. The player base that is to lazy to level there own characters, the player base that looks to india for cheap leveling services ? Yes , these problems existed before WoW but not on the scale that it is grown to now.
That post is a broad generalization that pigeonholes a ton of people who your description does not accurately describe. Yes, MMORPGs are no longer a niche genre with a niche crowd, but that community of friendly, entertaining people can be found across the board in any game, regardless of the simplicity or complexity of its game mechanics.