I have to disagree about WoW setting the bar too high if only because i remember playing UO and AC1 straight out of the box and NOT getting huge bugs and crashes that i have seen with some of the newer games like VG. There have been and will always be bugs in MMOs when they come out, but Blizzard setting the bar? No, they RETURNED the bar to what it was in the beginning. Install, load, play(after patching). When other games started coming out, the bar slowly started dipping with many developers (AO, Shadowbane ugh) NCsoft, to their credit, often have flawless launches as well. EQ2 when it came out, was pretty bad and fixed their issues and made up lost ground but again, low standard at release. When wow came out, It was polished and relatively clean as far as starting, Their main issue was the sheer number of people that started playing. Penny arcade, if you recall, yanked the game of the year title because there were soo many people they couldn't get in or stay in game because Blizz broke the 500k subs ceiling that most people at the time thought was the most any mmo would get(hell they smashed that thought).
As for the game being watered down or not fun or bland or having crappy graphics, each and every one of those points are EACH persons personal preference and therefore what you or I think about WoW in and of itself means diddly/squat when compared to the bigger picture. Bemoan, rant, scream, cry and generally put the game down for whatever reason YOU want, but guess what? Blizz doesn't care what YOU mister or misses "not their target audience" want. Do what i did when I got bored with the endgame of WoW, remember the enjoyment I had for the time i played it, build a bridge, and get over it.
If anything we needed WoW to dilute the amount of people who think they're somehow superior to everyone else because they played a MMO before they became popular. Pretentiousness, nothing more.
And just before you suggest it, I was playing MMOs before WoW came along, I just don't consider people who've only just discovered MMOs to be inferior to me.
Get over yourselves.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
9m -7.5m = 1.5m users spit in between the NA/UE . So basically what blizard has dow was just shave a few million off the Chinese numbers and moved them to the NA/EU side to fabricate an even keel of users across the spectrum. And like all of you said before about Asain mmos, the Asians will play just about anything, so releasing the game in China is no real big step for ANY game studio.
As well NcSoft is starting Guild Wars Open beta in China so I guess we will see who the top MMO producer really is (Cough NCSOFT Cough)
".....What Blizzard did the best of any game company is marketing...."
yes i agree...they did a bang up job on distribution.
------------------------------------------
"..... IE Flagship Studios (most of the key Diablo Devs), Arenanet (more key devs). They have since replaced a lot of their staff with old EQ1 people. ....."
EQ1!???<gasp!> dont say such heretical things here , mheh;)
---------------------------------------------
"""....You appear to constantly point fingers at "sources", when you don't apply reasonable discussion over what effecting circumstances there could have been at that time.
Rereading your post, I've noticed that you also just make up figures. 50-65 million? THAT'S 15 MILLION COPIES. That's a bloody huge amount.
this site is perfect ..thank you. and yes..i did make up numbers...i took every scrap of info i could find on blizzards distribution through out the 3 years....well at least the info everyone is spewing around. 15 million copies is not even close. 15 million copies would barely fill the shelves nationwide of just EBgames and Bestbuy..forget ALL the othe stores and outlets and online sellers...hehe
in addition that page says 9 mill WORLDWIDE...ok...so i was wrong...the number is ALOT smaller that i thought. North america must be much much much smaller.....now if we go down a paragraph on that site...they said 1st month sales of the xpak in North America was 3.5 mil. well..what is even more hilarious , is the northamerican figures are clumped in WITH Europe now...LOL. wow<----pun intended
now do we believe this site above...or shall we believe blizzard itself or ...well...how about wikipedia?
that is a decent site and believeable no?
does this mean out of the 9 million for release the north american population was ONLY 3.5mil by the time the Xpak came out?....i have no idea......the websites i can find, do NOT hold the same numbers as anyone else's... wikipedia has only 2mil as being the only numbers northamerica has ever achieved. blizzard says something else. then fanbio newssites say something t-o-t-a-l-l-y different.
"........Nice attempt to rubbish WoW, but you fail due to having no sources for your information and some of the info you do quote does have sources that you choose to ignore or amend to suit your argument. Back under your bridge Mr.Troll1892839.
(note the use of sources)
Before Wow launched in china WoW's subscriber base was 1.5 million (May 2005) www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php In the last press release that blizzard mentioned NA/EU numbers (March 2007) www.blizzard.com/press/070307.shtml there were 3.5 million subs in NA/EU... that shoots your comment about WoW losing players from day to the ground, as to your retention statment I cannot comment and neither can you because you have ZERO info about that.
Now can you still say WoW is not as succesful as EQ, OU and DAoC? ......."
(FIRST OFF)...bashing wow? attempt?....do you not read ALL the posts within a thread, or just the ones which suit your own post?? (THAT my friends is a perfect definition of a troll, your skin is green , isnt it?mheh).....my entire family has played since day1. 5 family members, 6 including myself...well 1 plays a freeshard wow also. what i am bashing, if you want to call it that...is the inability to see WoW performance in sales and retention is just under or closely matches up with the big boys that started it all. thats all.
^^^yes..i can wow is not as successful, it is just 'under' the gun on that matter...nothing you said has changed anything..the <ahem> sources you claim and show above are the same old drivel i have been finding all over. so your direction at a website is merely another carboncopy of anothers info that is readily available to any `surface reader` and reeks of the same info you can simply find here that is the norm by simply reading.
again....you too have twisted what i am trying to say into something backwards.......wow fanbois here seem to like to say that wow has had unprecedented victory in a successful playerbase over that of eq,daoc,uo ,etc. and boastfully so that it has outperformed with a retention rate and sales rate of that over 50%!..i say no...it is almost on par with the big boys...but the numbers everyone else is spewing is just horrible and horrid ......it is actually a few percentages smaller than eq,daoc,uo......not much. but its there...period.
that is what my direction is with my posting..nothing more , nothing less....( hence here we go again: the Britney Spears Analogy)
yes..i have seen the info you posted in those sites....thats all the norm info across the net...i did however notice, they combined europe and northamerica ,to bolster numbers in the past?.... Europe has it own market..blizzard even has its own seperate employees and marketing people solely for europe alone. why they would combine the two numbers together....well it is quite obvious. this also is a known fact that any reputable or trash website will spew. common knowledge. thank you for posting it though.
as far as loosing players day to day.....it is true also. the last decent numbers seen was burning crusade release..3.5 mil sold for that first month(NA/EU). now china is a different story..look at thier numbers....then take korea and anywhere else...add it together. the number comes out waay over 9 million....doesnt make too much sense. Is wikipedia closer to the truth? 2 million of na/eu to date. if so...then erase everything above and replace the player retention success rate at less than 10%...then i can answer your question...no WoW isnt anywhere near the successrate of Backyard baseball even. the game is still loosing players day to day, month to month to this very moment. /shrug. it has a large player base...most Layman and players within the game will not feel or see this b/c blizzard is a bunch of small instances...so it will indeed perform perfectly fine in its own gameplay til the very day it dies.
but of course...i do not beleive the latter is true about the less-than-10% retention rate.
I still beleive...worldwide, for 3 years 50-65million copies have been distributed both in Local Stores in your respective countries of choice.... including ALL digitally sold keys and cafe licences,then toss in the player purchases within the cafes.....(another number boltsterer that seems to double an areas sell rate, i think that is bull, imo, once a key is sold..it ends....do NOT count the resale of that key to a cafe patron, that is ridiculous and puts forth false sales figures...imo),....such as in the case of china and friends;)....china patrons do NOT make nearly the revenue the other countries yield to blizzard. in china its "The9", they report only making .04cent per/hour per player. at 5.5 mil subs. supposedly.
mind you , it is stated 5.5 in china....3.5 in NA and EU......and yet there are more countries to consider....well if we add just china and NA/EU numbers ,we are already at 9 million....what about the other areas?......is it closer to 10-15million?....then is 9 a lie.? even so, this just shows you how much BS is out there. even from the sites YOU posted
....i only look at figures i can find from each years sales....well on fanboi threads and other such websites as you have posted...each year there is new sales figures and distribution figures....most of which are bogus....you just have to take a middle-of-the-road number...and go with it, hoping for the best.
as i stated prior...i still believe the game has distributed keys,printed cd's and shelved more than 50mil since day 1, to date.
but we are getting waaay off the subject regardless......fact still remains no matter how you slice the numbers...the statements that are being spewed forth on this site from thread to thread , which consist of saying WoW is way over the top successful and have blown away the 3 big boys that started it all is just entertainingly funny, to say the least.
all i am saying is...not matter how big the numbers are: WoW has had average to under average success....Wow is riding just behind the heels of eq,daoc and UO's success rate. especially considering the big boys did all this back when, hardly anyone was on the net with a comp that one could actually game with....hardware was horrid back in the late 90's-2003.
and i still stick honorably to the Britney Spears Scenario whereupon i have suggested the majority of the sales success came from distribution tactics used. Flooding. it works! period.
i know i know..this is old.....but better to be old, it just shows that the successful distribution Blizzard acheived is the ONLY bar that was set higher imo. NOT the retention rate..we can all see very clearly it is on par or under that of games that came out in the late 90's!. common knowledge once again.
and as we see above in the china post of numbers..again....wfh?
mheh
same ole same ole...all over again.
Britney Spears is innovative, has sold more copies than anyone else....and you know what...everyone is still buying and listening to her hits everyday!
right!?!?
or is she just another name in the wings of past success, simple b/c of distribution...of couse her talent is boundless and the mass advertising and distribution of her<ahem> music had nothing to do with the sales related to her long long long success.
i'll almost bet the idea for her to put on a schoolgirl outfit in that video right at the same time online perv schoolgirl sites were rampant ,was not an advertising ploy of imagery.
c'mon.
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
remember when EQ showed all the server numbers in real time...then all of a sudden when the game started to slide...they REMOVED the numbers and just showed the words UP and/or DOWN. this became a good way to keep to numbers from people and to keep them from logging in and creating toons on one server...the popular one!
i see the business decision behind it...but it is lame. imo.
i cant stand seeing Words like that on the server population sides of login screens...I also cant stand seeing LOW, or MEDIUM or HIGH to give us an idea of how many players are on the particular server of choice.
we ALL know why mmorpgs do this now.....its sick.
spreading people out all over the place...mmo and mmorpg is about MASSIVE t-o-g-e-t-h-e-r playing..not MASSIVE LOGGED seperately.
"b-b-b-b-ut it makes it less laggy and easier for...." blah..screw that...if you cant take the heat , get out of the kitchen...if you cant run a mmorpg correctly.....get off the net:)
sorry.../rant off
------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------------------------------------------------------ <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert gloat of ubar toon here> <insert random game here> --------------------------- <insert witty anecdote here> <political/religious agenda here>
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
Unfortunately those numbers do not say anything about current and active subscribers. It just says 7.5 million accounts have been activated.
Venge Sunsoar
So there really is no way to prove that there is 9million plays, it is just blizzard saying they have 9million, which is 5million less players then Lineage 2. Thanks for your input
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
Unfortunately those numbers do not say anything about current and active subscribers. It just says 7.5 million accounts have been activated.
Venge Sunsoar
So there really is no way to prove that there is 9million plays, it is just blizzard saying they have 9million, which is 5million less players then Lineage 2. Thanks for your input
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
Unfortunately those numbers do not say anything about current and active subscribers. It just says 7.5 million accounts have been activated.
Venge Sunsoar
So there really is no way to prove that there is 9million plays, it is just blizzard saying they have 9million, which is 5million less players then Lineage 2. Thanks for your input
Unfortunately your logic fails once again. Blizzard announces they have 9 million active subscribers then goes on to define what they mean by active. They are a corporation responsible to their shareholders for all public statements, especially financial statements or any statements that can be determined to be financial. Therefore we can assume that the 9 million is relatively accurate given a 5-10% error of significance.
Your numbers do not say active, current, players... nothing of the sort, nor do they define what they mean by their statement. The only bit of credibility they have is they are put out by The9 which is also a corporation which would be responsible to it's shareholders. So once again your numbers do not hold up. They did not define it, nor even acknowledge that they are current accounts, just that they were created.
The same goes for Lineage 2, no information on whether they are active or not. And Wikipedia for the 14 million for lineage is not a credible source of information as anyone can add to it, so even the 14 accounts created number could be in dispute. However due to their estimated current active population and the years it has been out, I would assume there may be a little more than 14 million accounts created.
And now after reading through these posts, I must question you. You have very little factual information, a whole lot of opinion and very little reasoned argument on any of your arguments. In short you are not holding up your end of the debate and instead are using emotion, and attacking the person or companies not the points made. It seems like you are reaching and looking for more reasons to hate Wow. That is your opinion and it is fine, but don't try to win a debate with emotion and lack of reason. Learn to debate, and have valid, credible and reasoned points. Emotional conclusions without valid reason is a poor debate.
Yes I'll probably be modded for it but it needed to be said
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
And now after reading through these posts, I must question you. You have very little factual information, a whole lot of opinion and very little reasoned argument on any of your arguments. In short you are not holding up your end of the debate and instead are using emotion, and attacking the person or companies not the points made. It seems like you are reaching and looking for more reasons to hate Wow. That is your opinion and it is fine, but don't try to win a debate with emotion and lack of reason. Learn to debate, and have valid, credible and reasoned points. Emotional conclusions without valid reason is a poor debate. Yes I'll probably be modded for it but it needed to be said
What posts ? Please pick them out.
1. Wc3 3d engine is almost 7 years old now. It was modded to formulate an mmo world.
2. WoW Success rests souly on the Asian market.
3. Blizzards entire success is in Korea an the Asain market.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand
5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
6. I provided links as well as images of the WC3 3d from the game WC3
7. The Marketing and distribution was the only reason why the game succeeded.
8. The game brought nothing new to the mmo genre but people who would of never played an mmo and wouldn't even be on this website if Blizzard didn't do the marketing like they did.
9. With out the game WoW, what do you or anyone else have to say about the direction of online gaming, mmo gaming, the direction of future mmo's and the technologies that go into creating games as a whole ?
10. WoW will be at less then 1mil subscribers by the summer 2008.
spoiled is to light of word. It ruined the community. It let people into mmo genre who sjhouldn't be here. The area is over flowing with noobs who just because they p[played WoW and only WoW they are the end all be all on mmo discussion. I played a lot of mmos and I would never grant myself the obscenity of telling other that my words are god, and I find most WoW players attitude is that they are the word when it comes to mmos.
that "promoting" is called commercialization / selling out . Yes Developers should get rewarded for there work, but when it becomes at the destruction of a gaming genre, it is just not respectable in my honest opinion.
Again nothing but personal opinion bereft of factual information. The genre was not destroyed, just ruined for you.
I will never support Blizzard , and will never support compaanies that aren't mmo development compnies. I will support the f2p market more so then ever now , and will give more and more f2p titles a try , as a boycott to the capitalist reign that certain companies think they have acquired .
You are welcome to your opinion, but this shows your true colors. Only interested in things that make the company look the way you want it to look
Blizzard is like a a CEO that speaks about clean air and the environment, then turns around and dumps 9million gallons of sewage into the mississippi river.
That is about the best i can put there "stake" on the mmo genre.
This is just more garbage rhetoric. Not a very good analogy at all. You don’t like the game that’s fine, but they did not make a bad game, nor pollute the gaming world.
They used the same engine as WC3, The 3d models in WC3 are exactly like the models in WOW . That is amazing that when Turbine used the Ac2 engine for Lotro it was a big hoopla , o noes they using an engine that is old. WOW's engines a probably the most dated engine in any mmo, but yet it is some type of super miracle they where able to create a "polished" game, give me a break.
Who cares what engine they used. We care about the functionality of the game. If they managed to have hamsters spinning the wheel as an engine, we wouldn’t care as long as it worked well. They released a fairly stable, solid game, which is a lot more than most developers have done.
I stand by that statement. I got into mmos because of the main branch of the community was not large and the people where usually friendly and entertaining, You had a niche genre witha niche crowd, kind of like a mod community. That is no longer the case, the community is not as what i've known , it is strictly a profit struggle now, no one does anything inside the community that is selfless or charititable anymore. People played mmos because they wanted, not because the commercials looked cool ....
Your gaming was not ruined by blizzard. Blizzard just made it bigger, all these things existed before blizzard.
so by this statement, If I made some cartoon trees and had a system that worked flawessly in leveling these trees , regardless of how shallow the content is or how old the game engine is, I should be able to sell 1 million cpies , and 8 million copies to gold farmers ?
Their release was not the sole reason for their success just one of them. A bad release is hard to counter, the game still has to be fun for the people who pay the subscriptions. So weak analogy.
so you are saying " please stop digging ?" Fair enough, the point is still made that WoW has ruined the market by making producer steer clear of anything that is outside of the box. Vanguard intitail vision was outside of the box and through corporate pressure to compete with WoW , Figure heads slowly nudging it into the box till it became a perfectly square and uninspired pile. Shoot if i was Brad I would of said "F itm, do what you want , I don't give a F" as well. I have some sypathy for mr. mmquaidm, but at the same time he needed to realize the difference of a designer, and game developer. I think his lesson was hard learned and I hope he takes the intial thought he had and designs soemthing more capable for tomorrows generation.
This is blatantly absurd. Wow is not forcing developers, except their own, to do anything. Developers of other games still have as much room to design their games the way they want as they did before. If a developer was, “Thinking outside the box,” (a very inside the box term) before WoW they are still going to do it. If they were looking to copy success from other games before WoW, they are still going to do it. Vanguard initial vision was never outside the box. Everything it said it was going to do has been done in other games, they were just going to repackage it. Gee just like WoW did.
What posts ? Please pick them out.
1. Wc3 3d engine is almost 7 years old now. It was modded to formulate an mmo world.
Again no one cares about the age of the engine. We care about how the game plays. Use whatever engine you want, but make it stable.
2. WoW Success rests souly on the Asian market.
There are more Asian gamers than N.A. or European but as of their last press release, there are more WoW players in N.A. than any other game.
3. Blizzards entire success is in Korea an the Asain market.
See above. Anyway, it is a world market. The other games are in the world market too.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand
Registered users as stated, not active accounts. This has been rehashed.
5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Actually now it is closer to 3-4, again the numbers you have chosen to believe do not have a definition while the ones provided by blizzard do.
6. I provided links as well as images of the WC3 3d from the game WC3
See number 1, we don’t care about the engine. We care how stable the game is
7. The Marketing and distribution was the only reason why the game succeeded.
Not the only reason, but a very good reason. And that’s fine. Marketing is why anything succeeds. Until people know about something, good or bad, they can’t use it. Personally I got into it for a time because I wanted to find out about the game that sold so many copies. They did a good job: Solid, playable game, little noticeable bugs, no real glitches in graphics or programming (yes they are some but for the most part they are minor and do not affect the gameplay), pretty graphics if you like the cartoon look. And they had a solid fanbase to start from. Not to mention the market alone was beginning to get noticed from previous games. All combine to make WoW a success.
8. The game brought nothing new to the mmo genre but people who would of never played an mmo and wouldn't even be on this website if Blizzard didn't do the marketing like they did.
It didn’t need to bring anything new. New things are not always good, many times they plain suck. It made a solid playable game that many people (young and old, noob and veteran) like.
Your marketing analogy can be applied to every game ever developed anywhere. They all do marketing, SWG brought new people, EQ brought new people.. they all bring new people. Some go, new ones come, some stay. New people is not bad, it is just more. If you like the niche small population thing, your going to have to find a niche game with a small population, they are still out there.
9. With out the game WoW, what do you or anyone else have to say about the direction of online gaming, mmo gaming, the direction of future mmo's and the technologies that go into creating games as a whole ?
The direction of online gaming is slowly improving. First with graphics, then with gameplay. AoC, Darkfall (if it ever comes out) may try new things, they may work they may not.
The best thing to happen IMO is companies are starting to realize that we will not pay for a bug ridden alpha/beta release. There can be some bugs, and some growing pains but don’t make us pay for your beta because you will lose
The technology will change as well allowing us more freedom, and more choices.
10. WoW will be at less then 1mil subscribers by the summer 2008.
imo
It might be, I personally don’t care.
I apologize for this rather long post but I think it sums up pretty nicely the fact that you for the most part are using opinion, blaming WoW for things that other people can do, and just looking for reasons to hate.
I’m done here now, wasted to much time typing. Going to try CoH for the free weekend again.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
wow, impressive. My points stand. There is nothing you said that is any different from my point of view and logic. Unless you workk for Blizzard and getting annoyed at the truths being flushed out in this thread ?
wow, impressive. My points stand. There is nothing you said that is any different from my point of view and logic. Unless you workk for Blizzard and getting annoyed at the truths being flushed out in this thread ?
Ok, one last comment since you wrote so quick.
You have no truths there, just opinion and rhetoric, which dust not stand in any debate or reasonable discussion.
Venge Sunsoar
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
wow, impressive. My points stand. There is nothing you said that is any different from my point of view and logic. Unless you workk for Blizzard and getting annoyed at the truths being flushed out in this thread ?
Ok, one last comment since you wrote so quick.
You have no truths there, just opinion and rhetoric, which dust not stand in any debate or reasonable discussion.
Venge Sunsoar
so you are calling the 9ths quartley report a lie ? Where are your truths at ?
You cannot reason with haters they will pull up any kind of so called source.. mostly from wiki or from their ass to support their claims, but in the end they are all haters with nothing else to do but try and make themselves feel superior to others, in this case superior to WoW players.
Most blame wow for low sub numbers in other games and for features they don't like appearing in said games. Best to ignore em and hope they go away.. don't feed em and they will starve.. and hopefully go play Hello kitty where they will be happy.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand 5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand 5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
some one posted a blizzard number os 3.5 million in NA/EU
The only way to get the true numbers is file a petition at the B.B.B. and claim that blizzard is falsifying the numbers to make a marketing ploy... that is a lot of trouble when they could just come clean with precise figure and stop the speculation .
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand 5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
some one posted a blizzard number os 3.5 million in NA/EU
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand 5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Besides Conman has no source for the number of Asian vs World break down the last WoW press release in march 07 stated 3.6million active subs on EU/NA servers.. supported by the fact TBC sold over 3.5million copies (was only avaliable to EU/NA players at the time), to think WoW's player base in NA/EU dropped by over 60% in 4 months is dumb.. id notice if their were 60% less players on my server, 2 guild members have quit in that time not 30 (which would be 60% of my guild).
I find it hilarious that people are still doubting the subscriber numbers. I mean, here in the UK, Burning Crusade is still this month's #1 selling PC game. In this month's PC Gamer it was voted #1 out of the top 100 PC games. Even newer games like Lord of The Rings online aren't on anyone's top game list, or in the top 10 sales charts. Why is it so difficult to believe?
Now dispute what you will about popularity meaning nothing, but to dispute the subscriber numbers is ridiculous.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
When you think about it, WoW has really spoiled the MMO community. For a lot of people, WoW is the default game when the current newer game they are trying fails. Now, everyone looks at new games coming out with such a high standard. MMO developers today are pushing their game launches back to polish them up more (look at Warhammer), because there no longer is that 1-3 month buffer after the game comes out where people stick through the tough times and wait for the game to get better. People instantly say "this game sucks" and they all quit, then go back to wow or whatever. Just look at Vanguard. Now, that game might've been doomed just because it did have an exceptionally sloppy launch, but, I think the majority of the player base would've stuck around another few months if it had been before the WoW era of everything being so neat and tidy and comfortable. Just look at all of the other MMO's before WoW that had a really rough first 1-3 months. Nowadays, it's like the community as a whole makes a verdict a week into the games launch and the exodus happens. I'm thinking this might also be the reason MMO developers today are straying away from having official forums, so that people are more disintegrated, and there aren't 500-page threads with tens of thousands of replies saying "screw this game" after the first week. It seems like the insane level of polish that WoW has right now has set the bar so high that companies are pushing back their MMO's until they feel like they have a game that has already been out for a few months and has no major problems. ***EDIT***: Also, as a supplemental to this post, I'd like to say that WoW has also hurt the community in a way that it's given the current-day MMO player the mentality that leveling a character is a job, and every possible shortcut must be taken to max level ASAP. Perhaps it's because end-game raid and pvp has been the only real focus of WoW and their promotions for the majority of the game, but I remember back in the early days of SWG and other games where people were running around at half the level of some other guy and didn't really care. They were just having fun. WoW has made todays gamer feel the fun doesn't start until you're max level, and I think no matter what future MMO developers try to do to change that mentality, it's going to stay set in stone. And that sucks.
I think your logic is flawed. First off, let me start by saying that I play Vanguard and have played MMORPGs since 2002 with DAoC.
WoW has raised the bar when it comes to releasing a product and that is a GOOD thing. If we are paying for these games, they should be released polished. Game developers shouldn't even begin a game without knowing the costs it would take to implement their ideas in a game and also release it in a polished state. Does that mean that our games will all be WoW copies? Well, as you have seen with SWG change to a WoW format and LoTRO release as a game very similar to WoW, that won't happen much longer. Players don't want a WoW similar game, just the level of polish that WoW represents. I know this would cost a lot of money, and not being able to release a game unless it is polished will hurt a lot of Indy companies, but it is needed to weed out the non-dedicated. Sure there are many great ideas floating around for new MMORPGs that I personally can't wait to play either (Darkfall), but I would much rather wait for a developer who is convincing enough to the lenders, has excellent ideas and leadership ability to produce the game.
No other MMO will ever reach WoW's numbers probably, but it is quite possible for a well polished original, yet appealing game to hit 500k-1mill subs in their lifetime. I'm not sure if WoW is your first game, but WoW didn't design the raid system, EQ did. The difference is the community that played the game. In EQ, people were happy at all levels, because adventuring was fun and so was leveling. But at max level, people still knew that raiding was the thing to do in order to advance. More people just took their time. WoW has brought in the instant gratification community, with narrower attention spans, or people that are too casual to play a game that takes a week to gain a level. So it was not really WoW directly that is the cause of the decline, but the community that WOW brought into the genre. I guess it could be argued that WoW's game mechanics made the community that way, but who knows.
Anyways, I don't play WoW, but I have played it and it's BC expansion. I think the game is well polished and wanderfully made, but lacks any kind of depth to keep my attention. It also lacks on character classes, where I am used to 14+ classes to choose from. The quests that you level up on are not interesting and are what made me quit the game. I would much rather stick to a spot that is good for my level and grind it out with a group of mature people, than solo a bunch of rediculously repetitive and boring quests. However, I really like the quests associated with the instanced dungeons and the raids. However, I do not support having to gather more than a group of people to complete any sort of content in a game. What does that say about a persons hard work and how powerful they are when it takes so many people to defeat a bad guy? Five people is the acceptable amount that are used to dungeons and dragons games. Hell, even popular movies (other than LoTR) have their hero/s as one person to a group of 5 that defeats the big baddy in the movie.
WoW only introduced raiding, because it is a way to keep the hardcore busy until they come out with a new expansion. They are perfectly able to turn the raid encounters into a 5 man encounter so everyone has a chance of completing it. It is also rediculous to require people to remain online for more than 1-3 hours at a time. There should be safe spots in raid dungeons, so that the players can save their progress and start from there the next time they are logged on. Requiring people to remain online for 3-9 hours at a time excludes the majority of gamers from completing the best content in game. I am excited for the WoW's Lich King expansion to be released, but I know I will never see that content since I have a life. So I won't even bother buying it.
Blizzard is encouraging unhealthy social behavior's in people by requiring them to remain online for more than 3 hours at a time in order to do the most entertaining quests. Paying subscribers should not have to choose between a healthy social life and completing the content that is worthy of the their payment. I'm not suggesting that developers make easy games, because I support games that require you to put forth a lot of effort in order to max your level and complete the best content, but I do not support the decision to require people to remain online for an unhealthy amount of time. Providing checkpoints in content that requires more than 3 hours to complete would solve this problem and would still allow those that are hardcore something to keep them entertained. You would see a decrease in unhealthy game playing too.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand 5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Besides Conman has no source for the number of Asian vs World break down the last WoW press release in march 07 stated 3.6million active subs on EU/NA servers.. supported by the fact TBC sold over 3.5million copies (was only avaliable to EU/NA players at the time), to think WoW's player base in NA/EU dropped by over 60% in 4 months is dumb.. id notice if their were 60% less players on my server, 2 guild members have quit in that time not 30 (which would be 60% of my guild).
until there is accurate numberspost by blizzard , they don't have 3.5 million NA/EU players
3,5 million copies Distributed is a lot different then 3.5 copies at final sales. Distributers just sell units to stores, and they are relying on the Distributed numbers, not final cash sales. So again , with someone who duals and triples boxes 3/5 easily turns into 1.5 users .
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand 5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Besides Conman has no source for the number of Asian vs World break down the last WoW press release in march 07 stated 3.6million active subs on EU/NA servers.. supported by the fact TBC sold over 3.5million copies (was only avaliable to EU/NA players at the time), to think WoW's player base in NA/EU dropped by over 60% in 4 months is dumb.. id notice if their were 60% less players on my server, 2 guild members have quit in that time not 30 (which would be 60% of my guild).
until there is accurate numberspost by blizzard , they don't have 3.5 million NA/EU players
3,5 million copies Distributed is a lot different then 3.5 copies at final sales. Distributers just sell units to stores, and they are relying on the Distributed numbers, not final cash sales. So again , with someone who duals and triples boxes 3/5 easily turns into 1.5 users .
So your saying every WoW player duel boses.. lol
here Ill do some research for you www.blizzard.com/press/070307.shtml IRVINE, Calif. March 7, 2007 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®: The Burning Crusade sold through approximately 3.5 million copies within one month following its mid-January launch in North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Thailand, and Malaysia.* This includes more than 1.9 million sold in regions that play on North American realms, including more than 100,000 copies in Australasia, and nearly 1.6 million in Europe. World of Warcraft's worldwide subscriber base now numbers more than 8.5 million and is continuing to grow as new and returning players join existing players in the game. Key word here being sold. <Mod edit>.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand 5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Besides Conman has no source for the number of Asian vs World break down the last WoW press release in march 07 stated 3.6million active subs on EU/NA servers.. supported by the fact TBC sold over 3.5million copies (was only avaliable to EU/NA players at the time), to think WoW's player base in NA/EU dropped by over 60% in 4 months is dumb.. id notice if their were 60% less players on my server, 2 guild members have quit in that time not 30 (which would be 60% of my guild).
until there is accurate numberspost by blizzard , they don't have 3.5 million NA/EU players
3,5 million copies Distributed is a lot different then 3.5 copies at final sales. Distributers just sell units to stores, and they are relying on the Distributed numbers, not final cash sales. So again , with someone who duals and triples boxes 3/5 easily turns into 1.5 users .
IRVINE, Calif. – March 7, 2007 – Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®: The Burning Crusade™ sold through approximately 3.5 million copies within one month following its mid-January launch in North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Thailand, and Malaysia.* This includes more than 1.9 million sold in regions that play on North American realms, including more than 100,000 copies in Australasia, and nearly 1.6 million in Europe. World of Warcraft's worldwide subscriber base now numbers more than 8.5 million and is continuing to grow as new and returning players join existing players in the game.
Key word here being sold.
It realy drains me having to correct the idiots who think they know it all but know nothing but whats in their tiny little brains.
1000 copies = 1 unit . Those are distribution figures .
Comments
I have to disagree about WoW setting the bar too high if only because i remember playing UO and AC1 straight out of the box and NOT getting huge bugs and crashes that i have seen with some of the newer games like VG. There have been and will always be bugs in MMOs when they come out, but Blizzard setting the bar? No, they RETURNED the bar to what it was in the beginning. Install, load, play(after patching
). When other games started coming out, the bar slowly started dipping with many developers (AO, Shadowbane ugh) NCsoft, to their credit, often have flawless launches as well. EQ2 when it came out, was pretty bad and fixed their issues and made up lost ground but again, low standard at release. When wow came out, It was polished and relatively clean as far as starting, Their main issue was the sheer number of people that started playing. Penny arcade, if you recall, yanked the game of the year title because there were soo many people they couldn't get in or stay in game because Blizz broke the 500k subs ceiling that most people at the time thought was the most any mmo would get(hell they smashed that thought).
As for the game being watered down or not fun or bland or having crappy graphics, each and every one of those points are EACH persons personal preference and therefore what you or I think about WoW in and of itself means diddly/squat when compared to the bigger picture. Bemoan, rant, scream, cry and generally put the game down for whatever reason YOU want, but guess what? Blizz doesn't care what YOU mister or misses "not their target audience" want. Do what i did when I got bored with the endgame of WoW, remember the enjoyment I had for the time i played it, build a bridge, and get over it.
If anything we needed WoW to dilute the amount of people who think they're somehow superior to everyone else because they played a MMO before they became popular. Pretentiousness, nothing more.
And just before you suggest it, I was playing MMOs before WoW came along, I just don't consider people who've only just discovered MMOs to be inferior to me.
Get over yourselves.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
china.seekingalpha.com/article/36196
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
9m -7.5m = 1.5m users spit in between the NA/UE . So basically what blizard has dow was just shave a few million off the Chinese numbers and moved them to the NA/EU side to fabricate an even keel of users across the spectrum. And like all of you said before about Asain mmos, the Asians will play just about anything, so releasing the game in China is no real big step for ANY game studio.
As well NcSoft is starting Guild Wars Open beta in China so I guess we will see who the top MMO producer really is (Cough NCSOFT Cough)
.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
".....What Blizzard did the best of any game company is marketing...."
yes i agree...they did a bang up job on distribution.
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"..... IE Flagship Studios (most of the key Diablo Devs), Arenanet (more key devs). They have since replaced a lot of their staff with old EQ1 people.
....."
EQ1!???<gasp!> dont say such heretical things here , mheh;)
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"""....You appear to constantly point fingers at "sources", when you don't apply reasonable discussion over what effecting circumstances there could have been at that time.
Rereading your post, I've noticed that you also just make up figures. 50-65 million? THAT'S 15 MILLION COPIES. That's a bloody huge amount.
http://play.tm/wire/click/1452394 ........."
this site is perfect ..thank you. and yes..i did make up numbers...i took every scrap of info i could find on blizzards distribution through out the 3 years....well at least the info everyone is spewing around. 15 million copies is not even close. 15 million copies would barely fill the shelves nationwide of just EBgames and Bestbuy..forget ALL the othe stores and outlets and online sellers...hehe
in addition that page says 9 mill WORLDWIDE...ok...so i was wrong...the number is ALOT smaller that i thought. North america must be much much much smaller.....now if we go down a paragraph on that site...they said 1st month sales of the xpak in North America was 3.5 mil. well..what is even more hilarious , is the northamerican figures are clumped in WITH Europe now...LOL. wow<----pun intended
now do we believe this site above...or shall we believe blizzard itself or ...well...how about wikipedia?
that is a decent site and believeable no?
does this mean out of the 9 million for release the north american population was ONLY 3.5mil by the time the Xpak came out?....i have no idea......the websites i can find, do NOT hold the same numbers as anyone else's... wikipedia has only 2mil as being the only numbers northamerica has ever achieved. blizzard says something else. then fanbio newssites say something t-o-t-a-l-l-y different.
no matter. the numbers are still right inline.
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"........Nice attempt to rubbish WoW, but you fail due to having no sources for your information and some of the info you do quote does have sources that you choose to ignore or amend to suit your argument. Back under your bridge Mr.Troll1892839.
(note the use of sources)
Before Wow launched in china WoW's subscriber base was 1.5 million (May 2005) www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php In the last press release that blizzard mentioned NA/EU numbers (March 2007) www.blizzard.com/press/070307.shtml there were 3.5 million subs in NA/EU... that shoots your comment about WoW losing players from day to the ground, as to your retention statment I cannot comment and neither can you because you have ZERO info about that.
Now can you still say WoW is not as succesful as EQ, OU and DAoC?
......."
(FIRST OFF)...bashing wow? attempt?....do you not read ALL the posts within a thread, or just the ones which suit your own post?? (THAT my friends is a perfect definition of a troll, your skin is green , isnt it?mheh).....my entire family has played since day1. 5 family members, 6 including myself...well 1 plays a freeshard wow also. what i am bashing, if you want to call it that...is the inability to see WoW performance in sales and retention is just under or closely matches up with the big boys that started it all. thats all.
^^^yes..i can wow is not as successful, it is just 'under' the gun on that matter...nothing you said has changed anything..the <ahem> sources you claim and show above are the same old drivel i have been finding all over. so your direction at a website is merely another carboncopy of anothers info that is readily available to any `surface reader` and reeks of the same info you can simply find here that is the norm by simply reading.
again....you too have twisted what i am trying to say into something backwards.......wow fanbois here seem to like to say that wow has had unprecedented victory in a successful playerbase over that of eq,daoc,uo ,etc. and boastfully so that it has outperformed with a retention rate and sales rate of that over 50%!..i say no...it is almost on par with the big boys...but the numbers everyone else is spewing is just horrible and horrid ......it is actually a few percentages smaller than eq,daoc,uo......not much. but its there...period.
that is what my direction is with my posting..nothing more , nothing less....( hence here we go again: the Britney Spears Analogy)
yes..i have seen the info you posted in those sites....thats all the norm info across the net...i did however notice, they combined europe and northamerica ,to bolster numbers in the past?.... Europe has it own market..blizzard even has its own seperate employees and marketing people solely for europe alone. why they would combine the two numbers together....well it is quite obvious. this also is a known fact that any reputable or trash website will spew. common knowledge. thank you for posting it though.
as far as loosing players day to day.....it is true also. the last decent numbers seen was burning crusade release..3.5 mil sold for that first month(NA/EU). now china is a different story..look at thier numbers....then take korea and anywhere else...add it together. the number comes out waay over 9 million....doesnt make too much sense. Is wikipedia closer to the truth? 2 million of na/eu to date. if so...then erase everything above and replace the player retention success rate at less than 10%...then i can answer your question...no WoW isnt anywhere near the successrate of Backyard baseball even. the game is still loosing players day to day, month to month to this very moment. /shrug. it has a large player base...most Layman and players within the game will not feel or see this b/c blizzard is a bunch of small instances...so it will indeed perform perfectly fine in its own gameplay til the very day it dies.
but of course...i do not beleive the latter is true about the less-than-10% retention rate.
I still beleive...worldwide, for 3 years 50-65million copies have been distributed both in Local Stores in your respective countries of choice.... including ALL digitally sold keys and cafe licences,then toss in the player purchases within the cafes.....(another number boltsterer that seems to double an areas sell rate, i think that is bull, imo, once a key is sold..it ends....do NOT count the resale of that key to a cafe patron, that is ridiculous and puts forth false sales figures...imo),....such as in the case of china and friends;)....china patrons do NOT make nearly the revenue the other countries yield to blizzard. in china its "The9", they report only making .04cent per/hour per player. at 5.5 mil subs. supposedly.
mind you , it is stated 5.5 in china....3.5 in NA and EU......and yet there are more countries to consider....well if we add just china and NA/EU numbers ,we are already at 9 million....what about the other areas?......is it closer to 10-15million?....then is 9 a lie.? even so, this just shows you how much BS is out there. even from the sites YOU posted
....i only look at figures i can find from each years sales....well on fanboi threads and other such websites as you have posted...each year there is new sales figures and distribution figures....most of which are bogus....you just have to take a middle-of-the-road number...and go with it, hoping for the best.
as i stated prior...i still believe the game has distributed keys,printed cd's and shelved more than 50mil since day 1, to date.
but we are getting waaay off the subject regardless......fact still remains no matter how you slice the numbers...the statements that are being spewed forth on this site from thread to thread , which consist of saying WoW is way over the top successful and have blown away the 3 big boys that started it all is just entertainingly funny, to say the least.
all i am saying is...not matter how big the numbers are: WoW has had average to under average success....Wow is riding just behind the heels of eq,daoc and UO's success rate. especially considering the big boys did all this back when, hardly anyone was on the net with a comp that one could actually game with....hardware was horrid back in the late 90's-2003.
and i still stick honorably to the Britney Spears Scenario whereupon i have suggested the majority of the sales success came from distribution tactics used. Flooding. it works! period.
i know i know..this is old.....but better to be old, it just shows that the successful distribution Blizzard acheived is the ONLY bar that was set higher imo. NOT the retention rate..we can all see very clearly it is on par or under that of games that came out in the late 90's!. common knowledge once again.
http://www.dfcint.com/game_article/aug06article.html
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and as we see above in the china post of numbers..again....wfh?
mheh
same ole same ole...all over again.
Britney Spears is innovative, has sold more copies than anyone else....and you know what...everyone is still buying and listening to her hits everyday!
right!?!?
or is she just another name in the wings of past success, simple b/c of distribution...of couse her talent is boundless and the mass advertising and distribution of her<ahem> music had nothing to do with the sales related to her long long long success.
i'll almost bet the idea for her to put on a schoolgirl outfit in that video right at the same time online perv schoolgirl sites were rampant ,was not an advertising ploy of imagery.
c'mon.
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<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
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<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
china.seekingalpha.com/article/36196
Unfortunately those numbers do not say anything about current and active subscribers. It just says 7.5 million accounts have been activated.
Venge Sunsoar
you know what i cant stand
remember when EQ showed all the server numbers in real time...then all of a sudden when the game started to slide...they REMOVED the numbers and just showed the words UP and/or DOWN. this became a good way to keep to numbers from people and to keep them from logging in and creating toons on one server...the popular one!
i see the business decision behind it...but it is lame. imo.
i cant stand seeing Words like that on the server population sides of login screens...I also cant stand seeing LOW, or MEDIUM or HIGH to give us an idea of how many players are on the particular server of choice.
we ALL know why mmorpgs do this now.....its sick.
spreading people out all over the place...mmo and mmorpg is about MASSIVE t-o-g-e-t-h-e-r playing..not MASSIVE LOGGED seperately.
"b-b-b-b-ut it makes it less laggy and easier for...." blah..screw that...if you cant take the heat , get out of the kitchen...if you cant run a mmorpg correctly.....get off the net:)
sorry.../rant off
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<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert gloat of ubar toon here>
<insert random game here>
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<insert witty anecdote here>
<political/religious agenda here>
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
china.seekingalpha.com/article/36196
Unfortunately those numbers do not say anything about current and active subscribers. It just says 7.5 million accounts have been activated.
Venge Sunsoar
So there really is no way to prove that there is 9million plays, it is just blizzard saying they have 9million, which is 5million less players then Lineage 2. Thanks for your input
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
china.seekingalpha.com/article/36196
Unfortunately those numbers do not say anything about current and active subscribers. It just says 7.5 million accounts have been activated.
Venge Sunsoar
So there really is no way to prove that there is 9million plays, it is just blizzard saying they have 9million, which is 5million less players then Lineage 2. Thanks for your input
9 million active players in WoW.
14 million accounts in Lineage 2.
"In the first quarter of 2007, WoW PCU was over 680,000 and ACU was approximately 330,000. As of March 31, 2007, over 7.5 million accounts have been registered and activated for the WoW game in Mainland China."
china.seekingalpha.com/article/36196
Unfortunately those numbers do not say anything about current and active subscribers. It just says 7.5 million accounts have been activated.
Venge Sunsoar
So there really is no way to prove that there is 9million plays, it is just blizzard saying they have 9million, which is 5million less players then Lineage 2. Thanks for your input
Unfortunately your logic fails once again. Blizzard announces they have 9 million active subscribers then goes on to define what they mean by active. They are a corporation responsible to their shareholders for all public statements, especially financial statements or any statements that can be determined to be financial. Therefore we can assume that the 9 million is relatively accurate given a 5-10% error of significance.
Your numbers do not say active, current, players... nothing of the sort, nor do they define what they mean by their statement. The only bit of credibility they have is they are put out by The9 which is also a corporation which would be responsible to it's shareholders. So once again your numbers do not hold up. They did not define it, nor even acknowledge that they are current accounts, just that they were created.
The same goes for Lineage 2, no information on whether they are active or not. And Wikipedia for the 14 million for lineage is not a credible source of information as anyone can add to it, so even the 14 accounts created number could be in dispute. However due to their estimated current active population and the years it has been out, I would assume there may be a little more than 14 million accounts created.
And now after reading through these posts, I must question you. You have very little factual information, a whole lot of opinion and very little reasoned argument on any of your arguments. In short you are not holding up your end of the debate and instead are using emotion, and attacking the person or companies not the points made. It seems like you are reaching and looking for more reasons to hate Wow. That is your opinion and it is fine, but don't try to win a debate with emotion and lack of reason. Learn to debate, and have valid, credible and reasoned points. Emotional conclusions without valid reason is a poor debate.
Yes I'll probably be modded for it but it needed to be said
Venge Sunsoar
What posts ? Please pick them out.
1. Wc3 3d engine is almost 7 years old now. It was modded to formulate an mmo world.
2. WoW Success rests souly on the Asian market.
3. Blizzards entire success is in Korea an the Asain market.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand
5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
6. I provided links as well as images of the WC3 3d from the game WC3
7. The Marketing and distribution was the only reason why the game succeeded.
8. The game brought nothing new to the mmo genre but people who would of never played an mmo and wouldn't even be on this website if Blizzard didn't do the marketing like they did.
9. With out the game WoW, what do you or anyone else have to say about the direction of online gaming, mmo gaming, the direction of future mmo's and the technologies that go into creating games as a whole ?
10. WoW will be at less then 1mil subscribers by the summer 2008.
imo
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Posts like this, which show no reason, just hate:
That is about the best i can put there "stake" on the mmo genre.
This is just more garbage rhetoric. Not a very good analogy at all. You don’t like the game that’s fine, but they did not make a bad game, nor pollute the gaming world.
They used the same engine as WC3, The 3d models in WC3 are exactly like the models in WOW . That is amazing that when Turbine used the Ac2 engine for Lotro it was a big hoopla , o noes they using an engine that is old. WOW's engines a probably the most dated engine in any mmo, but yet it is some type of super miracle they where able to create a "polished" game, give me a break.
Who cares what engine they used. We care about the functionality of the game. If they managed to have hamsters spinning the wheel as an engine, we wouldn’t care as long as it worked well. They released a fairly stable, solid game, which is a lot more than most developers have done.
so by this statement, If I made some cartoon trees and had a system that worked flawessly in leveling these trees , regardless of how shallow the content is or how old the game engine is, I should be able to sell 1 million cpies , and 8 million copies to gold farmers ?
Their release was not the sole reason for their success just one of them. A bad release is hard to counter, the game still has to be fun for the people who pay the subscriptions. So weak analogy.
so you are saying " please stop digging ?" Fair enough, the point is still made that WoW has ruined the market by making producer steer clear of anything that is outside of the box. Vanguard intitail vision was outside of the box and through corporate pressure to compete with WoW , Figure heads slowly nudging it into the box till it became a perfectly square and uninspired pile. Shoot if i was Brad I would of said "F itm, do what you want , I don't give a F" as well. I have some sypathy for mr. mmquaidm, but at the same time he needed to realize the difference of a designer, and game developer. I think his lesson was hard learned and I hope he takes the intial thought he had and designs soemthing more capable for tomorrows generation.
This is blatantly absurd. Wow is not forcing developers, except their own, to do anything. Developers of other games still have as much room to design their games the way they want as they did before. If a developer was, “Thinking outside the box,” (a very inside the box term) before WoW they are still going to do it. If they were looking to copy success from other games before WoW, they are still going to do it. Vanguard initial vision was never outside the box. Everything it said it was going to do has been done in other games, they were just going to repackage it. Gee just like WoW did.
1. Wc3 3d engine is almost 7 years old now. It was modded to formulate an mmo world.
Again no one cares about the age of the engine. We care about how the game plays. Use whatever engine you want, but make it stable.
2. WoW Success rests souly on the Asian market.
There are more Asian gamers than N.A. or European but as of their last press release, there are more WoW players in N.A. than any other game.
3. Blizzards entire success is in Korea an the Asain market.
See above. Anyway, it is a world market. The other games are in the world market too.
4. The numbers from China are 7.5 million registered users. How hard is that to understand
Registered users as stated, not active accounts. This has been rehashed.
5. Out of the 9 million Total users 1.5 million are from NA/EU regions.
Actually now it is closer to 3-4, again the numbers you have chosen to believe do not have a definition while the ones provided by blizzard do.
6. I provided links as well as images of the WC3 3d from the game WC3
See number 1, we don’t care about the engine. We care how stable the game is
7. The Marketing and distribution was the only reason why the game succeeded.
Not the only reason, but a very good reason. And that’s fine. Marketing is why anything succeeds. Until people know about something, good or bad, they can’t use it. Personally I got into it for a time because I wanted to find out about the game that sold so many copies. They did a good job: Solid, playable game, little noticeable bugs, no real glitches in graphics or programming (yes they are some but for the most part they are minor and do not affect the gameplay), pretty graphics if you like the cartoon look. And they had a solid fanbase to start from. Not to mention the market alone was beginning to get noticed from previous games. All combine to make WoW a success.
8. The game brought nothing new to the mmo genre but people who would of never played an mmo and wouldn't even be on this website if Blizzard didn't do the marketing like they did.
It didn’t need to bring anything new. New things are not always good, many times they plain suck. It made a solid playable game that many people (young and old, noob and veteran) like.
Your marketing analogy can be applied to every game ever developed anywhere. They all do marketing, SWG brought new people, EQ brought new people.. they all bring new people. Some go, new ones come, some stay. New people is not bad, it is just more. If you like the niche small population thing, your going to have to find a niche game with a small population, they are still out there.
9. With out the game WoW, what do you or anyone else have to say about the direction of online gaming, mmo gaming, the direction of future mmo's and the technologies that go into creating games as a whole ?
It might be, I personally don’t care.
I apologize for this rather long post but I think it sums up pretty nicely the fact that you for the most part are using opinion, blaming WoW for things that other people can do, and just looking for reasons to hate.
I’m done here now, wasted to much time typing. Going to try CoH for the free weekend again.
Venge Sunsoar
wow, impressive. My points stand. There is nothing you said that is any different from my point of view and logic. Unless you workk for Blizzard and getting annoyed at the truths being flushed out in this thread ?
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You have no truths there, just opinion and rhetoric, which dust not stand in any debate or reasonable discussion.
Venge Sunsoar
You have no truths there, just opinion and rhetoric, which dust not stand in any debate or reasonable discussion.
Venge Sunsoar
so you are calling the 9ths quartley report a lie ? Where are your truths at ?
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
You cannot reason with haters they will pull up any kind of so called source.. mostly from wiki or from their ass to support their claims, but in the end they are all haters with nothing else to do but try and make themselves feel superior to others, in this case superior to WoW players.
Most blame wow for low sub numbers in other games and for features they don't like appearing in said games. Best to ignore em and hope they go away.. don't feed em and they will starve.. and hopefully go play Hello kitty where they will be happy.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
some one posted a blizzard number os 3.5 million in NA/EU
The only way to get the true numbers is file a petition at the B.B.B. and claim that blizzard is falsifying the numbers to make a marketing ploy... that is a lot of trouble when they could just come clean with precise figure and stop the speculation .
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
some one posted a blizzard number os 3.5 million in NA/EU
Then the same question to that person.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Besides Conman has no source for the number of Asian vs World break down the last WoW press release in march 07 stated 3.6million active subs on EU/NA servers.. supported by the fact TBC sold over 3.5million copies (was only avaliable to EU/NA players at the time), to think WoW's player base in NA/EU dropped by over 60% in 4 months is dumb.. id notice if their were 60% less players on my server, 2 guild members have quit in that time not 30 (which would be 60% of my guild).
I find it hilarious that people are still doubting the subscriber numbers. I mean, here in the UK, Burning Crusade is still this month's #1 selling PC game. In this month's PC Gamer it was voted #1 out of the top 100 PC games. Even newer games like Lord of The Rings online aren't on anyone's top game list, or in the top 10 sales charts. Why is it so difficult to believe?
Now dispute what you will about popularity meaning nothing, but to dispute the subscriber numbers is ridiculous.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
I think your logic is flawed. First off, let me start by saying that I play Vanguard and have played MMORPGs since 2002 with DAoC.
WoW has raised the bar when it comes to releasing a product and that is a GOOD thing. If we are paying for these games, they should be released polished. Game developers shouldn't even begin a game without knowing the costs it would take to implement their ideas in a game and also release it in a polished state. Does that mean that our games will all be WoW copies? Well, as you have seen with SWG change to a WoW format and LoTRO release as a game very similar to WoW, that won't happen much longer. Players don't want a WoW similar game, just the level of polish that WoW represents. I know this would cost a lot of money, and not being able to release a game unless it is polished will hurt a lot of Indy companies, but it is needed to weed out the non-dedicated. Sure there are many great ideas floating around for new MMORPGs that I personally can't wait to play either (Darkfall), but I would much rather wait for a developer who is convincing enough to the lenders, has excellent ideas and leadership ability to produce the game.
No other MMO will ever reach WoW's numbers probably, but it is quite possible for a well polished original, yet appealing game to hit 500k-1mill subs in their lifetime. I'm not sure if WoW is your first game, but WoW didn't design the raid system, EQ did. The difference is the community that played the game. In EQ, people were happy at all levels, because adventuring was fun and so was leveling. But at max level, people still knew that raiding was the thing to do in order to advance. More people just took their time. WoW has brought in the instant gratification community, with narrower attention spans, or people that are too casual to play a game that takes a week to gain a level. So it was not really WoW directly that is the cause of the decline, but the community that WOW brought into the genre. I guess it could be argued that WoW's game mechanics made the community that way, but who knows.
Anyways, I don't play WoW, but I have played it and it's BC expansion. I think the game is well polished and wanderfully made, but lacks any kind of depth to keep my attention. It also lacks on character classes, where I am used to 14+ classes to choose from. The quests that you level up on are not interesting and are what made me quit the game. I would much rather stick to a spot that is good for my level and grind it out with a group of mature people, than solo a bunch of rediculously repetitive and boring quests. However, I really like the quests associated with the instanced dungeons and the raids. However, I do not support having to gather more than a group of people to complete any sort of content in a game. What does that say about a persons hard work and how powerful they are when it takes so many people to defeat a bad guy? Five people is the acceptable amount that are used to dungeons and dragons games. Hell, even popular movies (other than LoTR) have their hero/s as one person to a group of 5 that defeats the big baddy in the movie.
WoW only introduced raiding, because it is a way to keep the hardcore busy until they come out with a new expansion. They are perfectly able to turn the raid encounters into a 5 man encounter so everyone has a chance of completing it. It is also rediculous to require people to remain online for more than 1-3 hours at a time. There should be safe spots in raid dungeons, so that the players can save their progress and start from there the next time they are logged on. Requiring people to remain online for 3-9 hours at a time excludes the majority of gamers from completing the best content in game. I am excited for the WoW's Lich King expansion to be released, but I know I will never see that content since I have a life. So I won't even bother buying it.
Blizzard is encouraging unhealthy social behavior's in people by requiring them to remain online for more than 3 hours at a time in order to do the most entertaining quests. Paying subscribers should not have to choose between a healthy social life and completing the content that is worthy of the their payment. I'm not suggesting that developers make easy games, because I support games that require you to put forth a lot of effort in order to max your level and complete the best content, but I do not support the decision to require people to remain online for an unhealthy amount of time. Providing checkpoints in content that requires more than 3 hours to complete would solve this problem and would still allow those that are hardcore something to keep them entertained. You would see a decrease in unhealthy game playing too.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Besides Conman has no source for the number of Asian vs World break down the last WoW press release in march 07 stated 3.6million active subs on EU/NA servers.. supported by the fact TBC sold over 3.5million copies (was only avaliable to EU/NA players at the time), to think WoW's player base in NA/EU dropped by over 60% in 4 months is dumb.. id notice if their were 60% less players on my server, 2 guild members have quit in that time not 30 (which would be 60% of my guild).
until there is accurate numberspost by blizzard , they don't have 3.5 million NA/EU players3,5 million copies Distributed is a lot different then 3.5 copies at final sales. Distributers just sell units to stores, and they are relying on the Distributed numbers, not final cash sales. So again , with someone who duals and triples boxes 3/5 easily turns into 1.5 users .
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So your saying every WoW player duel boses.. lolhere Ill do some research for you www.blizzard.com/press/070307.shtml
IRVINE, Calif. March 7, 2007 Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®: The Burning Crusade sold through approximately 3.5 million copies within one month following its mid-January launch in North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Thailand, and Malaysia.* This includes more than 1.9 million sold in regions that play on North American realms, including more than 100,000 copies in Australasia, and nearly 1.6 million in Europe. World of Warcraft's worldwide subscriber base now numbers more than 8.5 million and is continuing to grow as new and returning players join existing players in the game.
Key word here being sold.
<Mod edit>.
Since when did it matter whatever someone is from China? Does it mean he knows less about MMOs? Does it mean his opinion about it is less worth it? Really I do not see whatever it matter if they had the 7.5 million in China or in Europa. I am sure you did not meant it racist, but really I would like to see an explanation why it matter.
Besides Conman has no source for the number of Asian vs World break down the last WoW press release in march 07 stated 3.6million active subs on EU/NA servers.. supported by the fact TBC sold over 3.5million copies (was only avaliable to EU/NA players at the time), to think WoW's player base in NA/EU dropped by over 60% in 4 months is dumb.. id notice if their were 60% less players on my server, 2 guild members have quit in that time not 30 (which would be 60% of my guild).
until there is accurate numberspost by blizzard , they don't have 3.5 million NA/EU players3,5 million copies Distributed is a lot different then 3.5 copies at final sales. Distributers just sell units to stores, and they are relying on the Distributed numbers, not final cash sales. So again , with someone who duals and triples boxes 3/5 easily turns into 1.5 users .
So your saying every WoW player duel boses.. lol
here Ill do some research for you www.blizzard.com/press/070307.shtml
IRVINE, Calif. – March 7, 2007 – Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. announced today that World of Warcraft®: The Burning Crusade™ sold through approximately 3.5 million copies within one month following its mid-January launch in North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Thailand, and Malaysia.* This includes more than 1.9 million sold in regions that play on North American realms, including more than 100,000 copies in Australasia, and nearly 1.6 million in Europe. World of Warcraft's worldwide subscriber base now numbers more than 8.5 million and is continuing to grow as new and returning players join existing players in the game.
Key word here being sold.
It realy drains me having to correct the idiots who think they know it all but know nothing but whats in their tiny little brains.
1000 copies = 1 unit . Those are distribution figures .
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money