Ahh yes, a nice fresh vote on a nice innocent website that we might go forth and plunder like a blood-thirsty Barbarian stumbling into a Fallen encampment. An Everquest site, EQ Haven, has a vote up now asking:
"If all the new RPGs launched tomorrow what would you do?
Yeah, those terrible assholes at Blizzard, by providing a finished working product, have spoiled the MMO market by setting a standard that a game that is ready to play at launch is now expected by the public. Oh, what inhumanity this is on the part of Blizzard.
so by this statement, If I made some cartoon trees and had a system that worked flawessly in leveling these trees , regardless of how shallow the content is or how old the game engine is, I should be able to sell 1 million cpies , and 8 million copies to gold farmers ?
Yeah, those terrible assholes at Blizzard, by providing a finished working product, have spoiled the MMO market by setting a standard that a game that is ready to play at launch is now expected by the public. Oh, what inhumanity this is on the part of Blizzard.
so by this statement, If I made some cartoon trees and had a system that worked flawessly in leveling these trees , regardless of how shallow the content is or how old the game engine is, I should be able to sell 1 million cpies , and 8 million copies to gold farmers ?
Well, your problem is that by working in "regardless of how shallow the content is" you've created a straw man
Blizz had produced the ultimate 2nd Gen MMO. One that actually worked out of the box. No one claimed it had endless depth, or a player driven economy. They just did what others did before and did it better. The public responded.
I present to you Vanguard as the example of the old school method of developing MMOs. Look how well it's doing!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Well, your problem is that by working in "regardless of how shallow the content is" you've created a straw man
Blizz had produced the ultimate 2nd Gen MMO. One that actually worked out of the box. No one claimed it had endless depth, or a player driven economy. They just did what others did before and did it better. The public responded. I present to you Vanguard as the example of the old school method of developing MMOs. Look how well it's doing!
Really, just ignore them, they have no idea what they're talking about. They give lots of things without sources, and expect use to accept it as fact. I believe it may just be spite over the old games failing, due to stupid design, poor quality and terrible release management.
When WaR comes out , we will see how many people are waving a Blizzard flag.
If WAR comes out as polished, as functional, as playable as WoW did upon release, then the lesson will have been learned. If WAR has greater depth, greater playablity, and is more attractive to the public than WoW, well then, WoW will have still served a purporse by raising the bar higher on the most critical thing...having a relatively bug free, polished game at launch.
The MMO community should be happy that the bar has been raised, that there ARE new players out there, because those new players are your continuing content.
As for your laundrylist of patch items, everyone knows that an MMO is never really complete, that there are always things that need tweaking. My point is that WoW was less obviously not complete than most MMO launches. The old school MMO community, in my opinion, had a very high tolerance for technical incompetence because they saw so much potential. Blizz has realized a fraction of that potential in very meaningful ways, and yet you attack it for setting the bar too high for your pet projects to ever hope to reach, because you allowed yourself, as consumers, to be taken for a ride.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
When WaR comes out , we will see how many people are waving a Blizzard flag.
If WAR comes out as polished, as functional, as playable as WoW did upon release, then the lesson will have been learned. If WAR has greater depth, greater playablity, and is more attractive to the public than WoW, well then, WoW will have still served a purporse by raising the bar higher on the most critical thing...having a relatively bug free, polished game at launch.
The MMO community should be happy that the bar has been raised, that there ARE new players out there, because those new players are your continuing content.
As for your laundrylist of patch items, everyone knows that an MMO is never really complete, that there are always things that need tweaking. My point is that WoW was less obviously not complete than most MMO launches. The old school MMO community, in my opinion, had a very high tolerance for technical incompetence because they saw so much potential. Blizz has realized a fraction of that potential in very meaningful ways, and yet you attack it for setting the bar too high for your pet projects to ever hope to reach, because you allowed yourself, as consumers, to be taken for a ride.
Know issues as of now :
0. Known issues 2.1.3 | 07/10/2007 06:58:19 PM UTC
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=GENERAL=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
- Shoulder armor is significantly smaller on Orc Males than previously.
- Male Night Elf Off-Hand Weapons are not properly aligned with the hand.
- Dwarven Female off-hand equipped items are universally over sized.
- Bloodelf male's legs clip into all chairs in the game.
Environment
- There is a chair in Sunfury Spire which is displaying internal information upon mouseover.
- Adamantite Bound Chests and Heavy Fel Iron Chests contain improper loot.
Spells, Talents, & Abilities
- Critical strike damage reduction percentage gained from resilience rating increases as the attacking player gains more +critical strike damage bonus talents.
- The abilities Blazing Speed and Retaliation do not work correctly when you are attacked while on a mount.
- Cyclone can prevent a player from receiving battleground marks when the battleground ends.
- If a character with immunity (ice block, divine protection) resists a mass dispel, the immunity effect is still removed.
Tradeskills
Quests
- The Stealth ability of the coaxed marmots in the Blade's Edge quest "The Smallest Creatures" is immediately deactivating upon cast.
- Discarding the Darkrune from "Banishing the Demons" can prevent player from continuing the chain permanently.
- Turning in the Deathwing Brood Cloak with full inventory results in no reward.
- Obsidia, as well as other Blade's Edge Dragons, will not always answer when summoned.
- Multiple Resonating Skulls can be obtained from a single Fetid Skull for the Eastern Plaguelands quest Marauders of Darrowshire.
- The quest, “Becoming a Spellfire Tailor" summons two Furious Nether-wraiths instead of one.
[ Post edited by Hortus ]
Hortus
Blizzard QA
"Random does not mean fair, and past results do not influence future occurrences." - Corbenn
When WaR comes out , we will see how many people are waving a Blizzard flag.
If WAR comes out as polished, as functional, as playable as WoW did upon release, then the lesson will have been learned. If WAR has greater depth, greater playablity, and is more attractive to the public than WoW, well then, WoW will have still served a purporse by raising the bar higher on the most critical thing...having a relatively bug free, polished game at launch.
The MMO community should be happy that the bar has been raised, that there ARE new players out there, because those new players are your continuing content.
As for your laundrylist of patch items, everyone knows that an MMO is never really complete, that there are always things that need tweaking. My point is that WoW was less obviously not complete than most MMO launches. The old school MMO community, in my opinion, had a very high tolerance for technical incompetence because they saw so much potential. Blizz has realized a fraction of that potential in very meaningful ways, and yet you attack it for setting the bar too high for your pet projects to ever hope to reach, because you allowed yourself, as consumers, to be taken for a ride.
Don't worry,they're just being spiteful, and pointing out imagined flaws in games - which are in every game.
0. Unfinished Zones - 1/12/05 | 08/17/2006 01:18:56 AM UTC
There have been some individuals suspended for being in an area where they were not supposed to be and exploiting mobs they should not have been killing.
I know many of you are explorers, so please don't panic, folks.
We're not going to give specific examples here because we don't want the more determined of you to go looking for these areas, but basically, you can tell an area is unfinished by:
1) A complete lack of population or points of interest
2) A population that acts in a manner that is unusual, such as high level elite monsters that have ~100HP (an example)
3) Guardians of Blizzard (mobs) in the area.
Should you get to an area like this, please leave it immediately. If you get there in a manner that was unintentional (such as a malfunctioning port) and do not know how to leave, please use your hearthstone to exit the area. If you die in the area, please use the Spirit Healer at the graveyard.
There are safeguards in place to prevent players from accessing these taboo areas, but we are not infallible, and clever players can find ways past them at times. We will often spawn Guardians of Blizzard in such cases to reaffirm the fact that this is not an area in which you should be exploring. Should you see a Guardian of Blizzard, be advised that the area is unfinished and should not be entered.
Also, please do not share the information of how to get to the area with others. This will only increase the already high chance that action will be taken against your account.
I know this worries some of you, but rest assured these places are not easily found for the moment. Thank you for your cooperation.
Please understand me here...Blizzard isn't perfect, and WoW certainly is not.
There are ALWAYS devils in the details. Patches and tweaks are a way of life in this genre of games. They're never really complete.
But Blizz set a high standard for where to start the patching process...one that other games in the past have been notorious for not being even near. Let's discuss SOE's ongoing issue of releasing incomplete expansions on purpose, using the revenue from the sold expansions to finance the completion of them.
Blizz seems to have a lot on the ball in terms of code and project management that the clowns at SWG a couple of years back could not hope to imitate.
In part this is because Wow is a bit "dumbed down" froom what SWG preCU was doing. Combat is simpler, there is no attempt to create a player driven economy with all the extra code and database transaction activity that implies.
Sure, its not "deep". But it does what it was designed to do, and because it has fundamentally worked well from launch on, especially in comparison with other offerigs from other developers, it has raised expectations of what an MMO should be at launch in terms of presentation and playablity. True, you have a minute fraction of the character creation tools with WoW compared to a lot of games out there. It's cartoony. But it's engaging, it works, and you can get lost in it.
Blizz seems to me, at least, to be a bunch of people who are intent on creating games that will make them money.
Unfortunately, SOE strikes me as an outfit dedicated to making money by selling games...regardlessof quality, and they partnered with an outfit nortorious for slapping "Star Wars" on a box and it selling no matter how much the content of the box was bantha poodoo.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Please understand me here...Blizzard isn't perfect, and WoW certainly is not. There are ALWAYS devils in the details. Patches and tweaks are a way of life in this genre of games. They're never really complete. But Blizz set a high standard for where to start the patching process...one that other games in the past have been notorious for not being even near. Let's discuss SOE's ongoing issue of releasing incomplete expansions on purpose, using the revenue from the sold expansions to finance the completion of them. Blizz seems to have a lot on the ball in terms of code and project management that the clowns at SWG a couple of years back could not hope to mitate. In part this is because Wow is a bit "dumbed down" froom what SWG preCU was doing. Combat is simpler, there is no attempt to create a player driven economy with all the extra code and database transaction activity that implies. Sure, its not "deep". But it does what it was designed to do, and because it has fundamentally worked well from launch on, especially in comparison with other offerigs from other developers, it has raised expectations of what an MMO should be at launch. Blizz seems to me, at least, to be a bunch of people who are intent on creating games that will make them money. Unfortunately, SOE strikes me as an outfit dedicated to making money by selling games...regardlessof quality, and they partnered with an outfit nortorious for slapping "Star Wars" on a box and it selling no matter how much the content of the box was bantha poodoo.
so you are saying " please stop digging ?" Fair enough, the point is still made that WoW has ruined the market by making producer steer clear of anything that is outside of the box. Vanguard intitail vision was outside of the box and through corporate pressure to compete with WoW , Figure heads slowly nudging it into the box till it became a perfectly square and uninspired pile. Shoot if i was Brad I would of said "F itm, do what you want , I don't give a F" as well. I have some sypathy for mr. mmquaidm, but at the same time he needed to realize the difference of a designer, and game developer. I think his lesson was hard learned and I hope he takes the intial thought he had and designs soemthing more capable for tomorrows generation.
WoW and Blizzard have absolutley nothing on the real creators of mmos like Mcquaid, Lord British , Turbine as a whole team ,Mind Arc, CCP, funcom Ncsoft ect.
Blizzard took an old WC3 engine modded itm, and took references of each company to make a dollar. in the process "raising the bar" to people who really werent involved in moo's and making a frabricated attempt to claim the genre , theirs,
WoW and Blizzard have absolutley nothing on the real creators of mmos like Mcquaid, Lord British , Turbine as a whole team ,Mind Arc, CCP, funcom Ncsoft ect.
Except they created a game that has sold as well or better then all of the producers you list above combined.
So, your problem with Blizz is that they were smart enough to learn from the lessons taught by the original MMOs and avoid the pratfalls? This is really constructive. They've "ruined" MMOs by putting out a product that works. They've met consumer demand. Damn them. Damn them to hell for putting out something that is working.
Also, thank god for those SAINTS of game designers known as McQuiad and John Smedley, who would've loved to have had an MMO monopoly to mess with their players as much as they wanted - with "new" game designs!
WoW and Blizzard have absolutley nothing on the real creators of mmos like Mcquaid, Lord British , Turbine as a whole team ,Mind Arc, CCP, funcom Ncsoft ect.
Except they created a game that has sold as well or better then all of the producers you list above combined.
Obviously they're doing something right.
That is simpley false, when ncsoft as a company is the largest mmo producer in the world .
Originally posted by CognetoJoe Originally posted by terrant Originally posted by CognetoJoe WoW and Blizzard have absolutley nothing on the real creators of mmos like Mcquaid, Lord British , Turbine as a whole team ,Mind Arc, CCP, funcom Ncsoft ect.
Except they created a game that has sold as well or better then all of the producers you list above combined. Obviously they're doing something right. That is simpley false, when ncsoft as a company is the largest mmo producer in the world <-in Asia but not the West.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
When you think about it, WoW has really spoiled the MMO community. For a lot of people, WoW is the default game when the current newer game they are trying fails. Now, everyone looks at new games coming out with such a high standard. MMO developers today are pushing their game launches back to polish them up more (look at Warhammer), because there no longer is that 1-3 month buffer after the game comes out where people stick through the tough times and wait for the game to get better. People instantly say "this game sucks" and they all quit, then go back to wow or whatever. Just look at Vanguard. Now, that game might've been doomed just because it did have an exceptionally sloppy launch, but, I think the majority of the player base would've stuck around another few months if it had been before the WoW era of everything being so neat and tidy and comfortable. Just look at all of the other MMO's before WoW that had a really rough first 1-3 months. Nowadays, it's like the community as a whole makes a verdict a week into the games launch and the exodus happens. I'm thinking this might also be the reason MMO developers today are straying away from having official forums, so that people are more disintegrated, and there aren't 500-page threads with tens of thousands of replies saying "screw this game" after the first week. It seems like the insane level of polish that WoW has right now has set the bar so high that companies are pushing back their MMO's until they feel like they have a game that has already been out for a few months and has no major problems. ***EDIT***: Also, as a supplemental to this post, I'd like to say that WoW has also hurt the community in a way that it's given the current-day MMO player the mentality that leveling a character is a job, and every possible shortcut must be taken to max level ASAP. Perhaps it's because end-game raid and pvp has been the only real focus of WoW and their promotions for the majority of the game, but I remember back in the early days of SWG and other games where people were running around at half the level of some other guy and didn't really care. They were just having fun. WoW has made todays gamer feel the fun doesn't start until you're max level, and I think no matter what future MMO developers try to do to change that mentality, it's going to stay set in stone. And that sucks.
You are advocating sloppy releases and broken promises?
I know of no other technological industry where purchasing a product and it doesn't work as promised or is just strictly missing parts promised you cannot then return it. The software industry makes many excuses for release of a poorly designed or unfinished product, however the rest of the software industry doesn't generally get a monthly cheque to instigate further construction of the product, on top of that they are the consistent victim of piracy. Within the game industry there is NO excuse for this, nor should there be. Paying for the completion of a product if one so decides is fine, the problem lies in this manipulation of the customers by promising features, release dates, followed by bilking money out of the pockets of their customers to fix their consistent failures instead of living up to the standards they set for themselves.
The "state of the industry" is bad because companies feel comfortable releasing trash products. A stable working game with a solid list of features, which is fun to play and different than every other clone on the market is all that is needed, while indeed difficult, their is no excuse, as they set their release dates, they state their design objectives, consequently controlling whether their product will fail or succeed. This is one of the most forgiving industries there is, as gamers will play anything that is fun, engaging, and THAT WORKS.
Excuses for failure are made by those who wish not to take responsibility for their shortcomings and shouldn't have been designing or producing in the first place.
It let people into mmo genre who sjhouldn't be here.
Your attitude is disgusting.
Thank you very much.
If WoW would have never come out, You wouldn't even be browsing this forum. As then we would have a little better discussions about point systems and ect , questing and ect , other then Wow suck , WoW rules threads filling up 3/4 of this servers database. Really feel WoW is 2 srtep backward of anything innovative.
That is simpley false, when ncsoft as a company is the largest mmo producer in the world .
Largest is not the same as most successful.
Does NCsoft have one game, any ONE game, with a worldwide 9 million accounts? OK so we all know only half that at best currently active, but do they have 4.5 million active accounts on ONE game? Nope. Not even close to Blizzard.
For that matter, what's NCSoft's annual revenue? What's Blizzard's? 5 will get you 10 I know who makes more money.
That is simpley false, when ncsoft as a company is the largest mmo producer in the world .
Largest is not the same as most successful.
Does NCsoft have one game, any ONE game, with a worldwide 9 million accounts? OK so we all know only half that at best currently active, but do they have 4.5 million active accounts on ONE game? Nope. Not even close to Blizzard.
For that matter, what's NCSoft's annual revenue? What's Blizzard's? 5 will get you 10 I know who makes more money.
EDIT: I apparently found out Lineage has 14 million accounts. Mind you three of them are mind and I haven't played them in two years, so if that's any indication...but I will retract what I said earlier. Somewhat. Blizzard is still a larger success.
This one is amusing, you're saying that WOW is bad for gaming because it's a reasonably complete game and that people expect other MMOs to actually be functional at release? I think if I'm paying $50 + $15/month for a game, it should work when I start paying for it, not at some indeterminate point in the future, and I've felt that way before even playing MMOs for games without monthly fees.
I think it's good that WOW makes companies think twice before releasing badly incomplete products. Yes MMOs constantly evolve, and no one ever fixes all of the bugs in commercial software (like arcane missiles, vanish, and cat form range in WOW), but there's a big difference between a game not being perfect and a game not being playable.
EDIT: I apparently found out Lineage has 14 million accounts. Mind you three of them are mind and I haven't played them in two years, so if that's any indication...but I will retract what I said earlier. Somewhat. Blizzard is still a larger success.
When you think about it, WoW has really spoiled the MMO community. For a lot of people, WoW is the default game when the current newer game they are trying fails. Now, everyone looks at new games coming out with such a high standard. MMO developers today are pushing their game launches back to polish them up more (look at Warhammer), because there no longer is that 1-3 month buffer after the game comes out where people stick through the tough times and wait for the game to get better. People instantly say "this game sucks" and they all quit, then go back to wow or whatever. Just look at Vanguard. Now, that game might've been doomed just because it did have an exceptionally sloppy launch, but, I think the majority of the player base would've stuck around another few months if it had been before the WoW era of everything being so neat and tidy and comfortable. Just look at all of the other MMO's before WoW that had a really rough first 1-3 months. Nowadays, it's like the community as a whole makes a verdict a week into the games launch and the exodus happens. I'm thinking this might also be the reason MMO developers today are straying away from having official forums, so that people are more disintegrated, and there aren't 500-page threads with tens of thousands of replies saying "screw this game" after the first week. It seems like the insane level of polish that WoW has right now has set the bar so high that companies are pushing back their MMO's until they feel like they have a game that has already been out for a few months and has no major problems. ***EDIT***: Also, as a supplemental to this post, I'd like to say that WoW has also hurt the community in a way that it's given the current-day MMO player the mentality that leveling a character is a job, and every possible shortcut must be taken to max level ASAP. Perhaps it's because end-game raid and pvp has been the only real focus of WoW and their promotions for the majority of the game, but I remember back in the early days of SWG and other games where people were running around at half the level of some other guy and didn't really care. They were just having fun. WoW has made todays gamer feel the fun doesn't start until you're max level, and I think no matter what future MMO developers try to do to change that mentality, it's going to stay set in stone. And that sucks.
Why should they wait 3 months for the game to get good? For almost every commercial release that's another 30 bucks, so forget it. If they can't make the game with the resources they have then they need to scale back. Vanguard was doomed because it had an exceptionally sloppy company making it (see Artifact Entertainment). Turbine produced a couple stinkers in a row, yet from what I hear LOTRO had the most polish on release yet.
Contrary to popular opinion, WoW didn't really have an amazing amount of polish on D-Day. It was certainly in a superior class compared to most MMOs but there were plenty of glitches and content deserts. Its biggest success came from the momentum of the name behind it, its draws as a game deserve much less credit. However one thing it did do is make playing it seem much less like a job; if you don't like leveling in WoW, I can't imagine what you would have liked of the games before it.
Comments
im diggin. It will take time to find what I want, but will post something I find interesting along the way....
Friday 24 September 1999
New Vote; A Fat and Juicy One! - Flux [6:55pm pst]
Ahh yes, a nice fresh vote on a nice innocent website that we might go forth and plunder like a blood-thirsty Barbarian stumbling into a Fallen encampment. An Everquest site, EQ Haven, has a vote up now asking:
"If all the new RPGs launched tomorrow what would you do?
I'd be playing Diablo 2! - 16% (23)
I'd be playing Shadowbane! - 5% (8)
I'd be playing Asheron's Call! - 2% (4)
I'd be playing NeverWinterNights! - 3% (5)
I'd be playing UO 2! - 7% (10)
I'd keep playing Everquest - 63% (86)
source http://www.diabloii.net/news/archivenews/sept-99-pg3.shtml
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
so by this statement, If I made some cartoon trees and had a system that worked flawessly in leveling these trees , regardless of how shallow the content is or how old the game engine is, I should be able to sell 1 million cpies , and 8 million copies to gold farmers ?
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
so by this statement, If I made some cartoon trees and had a system that worked flawessly in leveling these trees , regardless of how shallow the content is or how old the game engine is, I should be able to sell 1 million cpies , and 8 million copies to gold farmers ?
Well, your problem is that by working in "regardless of how shallow the content is" you've created a straw man
Blizz had produced the ultimate 2nd Gen MMO. One that actually worked out of the box. No one claimed it had endless depth, or a player driven economy. They just did what others did before and did it better. The public responded.
I present to you Vanguard as the example of the old school method of developing MMOs. Look how well it's doing!
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Really, just ignore them, they have no idea what they're talking about. They give lots of things without sources, and expect use to accept it as fact. I believe it may just be spite over the old games failing, due to stupid design, poor quality and terrible release management.
When WaR comes out , we will see how many people are waving a Blizzard flag.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
If WAR comes out as polished, as functional, as playable as WoW did upon release, then the lesson will have been learned. If WAR has greater depth, greater playablity, and is more attractive to the public than WoW, well then, WoW will have still served a purporse by raising the bar higher on the most critical thing...having a relatively bug free, polished game at launch.The MMO community should be happy that the bar has been raised, that there ARE new players out there, because those new players are your continuing content.
As for your laundrylist of patch items, everyone knows that an MMO is never really complete, that there are always things that need tweaking. My point is that WoW was less obviously not complete than most MMO launches. The old school MMO community, in my opinion, had a very high tolerance for technical incompetence because they saw so much potential. Blizz has realized a fraction of that potential in very meaningful ways, and yet you attack it for setting the bar too high for your pet projects to ever hope to reach, because you allowed yourself, as consumers, to be taken for a ride.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
The MMO community should be happy that the bar has been raised, that there ARE new players out there, because those new players are your continuing content.
As for your laundrylist of patch items, everyone knows that an MMO is never really complete, that there are always things that need tweaking. My point is that WoW was less obviously not complete than most MMO launches. The old school MMO community, in my opinion, had a very high tolerance for technical incompetence because they saw so much potential. Blizz has realized a fraction of that potential in very meaningful ways, and yet you attack it for setting the bar too high for your pet projects to ever hope to reach, because you allowed yourself, as consumers, to be taken for a ride.
Know issues as of now :- Shoulder armor is significantly smaller on Orc Males than previously.
- Male Night Elf Off-Hand Weapons are not properly aligned with the hand.
- Dwarven Female off-hand equipped items are universally over sized.
- Bloodelf male's legs clip into all chairs in the game.
Environment
- There is a chair in Sunfury Spire which is displaying internal information upon mouseover.
- Adamantite Bound Chests and Heavy Fel Iron Chests contain improper loot.
Spells, Talents, & Abilities
- Critical strike damage reduction percentage gained from resilience rating increases as the attacking player gains more +critical strike damage bonus talents.
- The abilities Blazing Speed and Retaliation do not work correctly when you are attacked while on a mount.
- Cyclone can prevent a player from receiving battleground marks when the battleground ends.
- If a character with immunity (ice block, divine protection) resists a mass dispel, the immunity effect is still removed.
Tradeskills
Quests
- The Stealth ability of the coaxed marmots in the Blade's Edge quest "The Smallest Creatures" is immediately deactivating upon cast.
- Discarding the Darkrune from "Banishing the Demons" can prevent player from continuing the chain permanently.
- Turning in the Deathwing Brood Cloak with full inventory results in no reward.
- Obsidia, as well as other Blade's Edge Dragons, will not always answer when summoned.
- Multiple Resonating Skulls can be obtained from a single Fetid Skull for the Eastern Plaguelands quest Marauders of Darrowshire.
- The quest, “Becoming a Spellfire Tailor" summons two Furious Nether-wraiths instead of one.
[ Post edited by Hortus ]
Hortus
Blizzard QA
"Random does not mean fair, and past results do not influence future occurrences." - Corbenn
//<![CDATA[
if(Quickfind(104601064)&&(document.location.href.indexOf("thread.html")>-1)){collapseSingle(104601064,"0")}
//]]>
//<![CDATA[
postIdArray[1]="1744278756_104601064";
//]]>
//<![CDATA[
postIdArray[1]="1744278756_104601064_switch2";
//]]>
- The Chance on Hit effect for the two-handed mace "World Breaker" fades before the +crit it provides can be utilized.
- Two piece Warlock "Corruptor" set bonus does not work in conjunction with heal over time spells.
- The item "Spyglass of The Hidden Fleet" is unable to be used while in druid shapeshift form.
- Unstable Talasite does not satisfy Red gem socket requirements despite tooltip.
- Sul'thraze the Lasher is not showing the unholy effect nor any other enchant effect.
- The trinket, Figurine of the Colossus, is being put on a global cooldown when casting spells.
- Figurine of the Colossus becomes grayed-out on the action bar when a character has no mana.
- There is an inconsistency in the Strength attribute for the Paladin PvP items Veteran's Scaled Greaves and Veteran's Scaled Belt.
- The Merciless Gladiator's Legguards does not match the rest of the set items.
- There is an inconsistency on the critical strike rating on Gladiator's Leather Spaulders.
- There is an inconsistency with the Warbringer Armor two-piece set bonus description.
- Using Mr. Pinchy when your inventory is full results in a "Inventory is full" error and uses a charge but does not grant an item.
- Some Guardian Elixirs do not stack to 20.
- The item level for Shuriken of Negation is not consistent with the other items from Gruul.
- Runed Ornate Ruby and Bold Ornate Ruby are marked Unique-Equipped but only one can be in the players inventory.
- Some spells do not trigger the Enlightenment buff given by using the item, Pendant of the Violet Eye.
- The cooldown for the Gnomish Poultryizer is triggered even if the item cannot be used due to a Silence effect.
- Crossbow and gun animations are not stopping once a player has fired the weapon.
- Crystalline Crossbow is held in the character's hands improperly.
- Shooting while under the effects of Time-Lost Figurine displays no Shoot Animation.
- Edgewalker Longboots have an inconsistent armor value.
- When arrows are pulled back on The Black Bow of the Betrayer they stick straight up.
- The Merciless Gladiator's Plate Helm does not disable facial hair.
- Facial hair shows through the Merciless Gladiator's Mooncloth Hood.
- Players facial hair clips through the helm Merciless Gladiator's Ornamented Headcover.
- Hair clips through the back of the Crown of the Sun.
- The Merciless Gladiator's Mail Helm clips player hair.
- The Merciless Gladiator's Mooncloth Hood and Merciless Gladiator's Satin Hood clips player hair.
- The Merciless Gladiator's Ringmail Helm clips player hair.
- Crown of Empowered Fate is removing hair when equipped.
- Player facial hair clips through some Hood of Primal Life and Windscale Hood.
- The heal proc from the Battlemaster enchant knocks partied characters out of stealth.
- Masquerade Gown procs on non-spell casts.
User Interface
- The Pet info window will re-open whenever dismounting if the character info window is closed while the pet info tab is active.
- Hunter Pets with more then 12 skills can not access the second page of the spellbook.
- Players in cross-server battlegrounds can't use the target function in the Who List UI on players from different servers.
Monsters and NPCs
- Some major city guards ignore both Feign Death and Vanish.
- Player pets spawn in mid-air when the dragonmaw illusion is applied.
- Pets who are currently desummoned from mounting when a battleground ends will be lost after leaving the battleground.
- Dragonmaw Peons have improper pickpocket loot..
- Ahab Wheathoof is appearing when Track Beasts is enabled.
Hortus
Blizzard QA
"Random does not mean fair, and past results do not influence future occurrences." - Corbenn
//<![CDATA[
if(Quickfind(104601064)&&(document.location.href.indexOf("thread.html")>-1)){collapseSingle(104601064,"1")}
//]]>
//<![CDATA[
postIdArray[2]="1744278782_104601064";
//]]>
//<![CDATA[
postIdArray[2]="1744278782_104601064_switch1";
//]]>
Druid
Spells, Talents, & Abilities
-The Healing Aura from Tree of Life is not being applied party members at full range.
-Druid talent Mangle's duration icon isn't being refreshed properly on reapplication.
- The Druid talent Force of Nature causes stealthed party members to lose their stealth.
- Druids are able to learn Dire Bear form before learning Bear form.
Hunter
Spells, Talents & Abilities
- Hunter's Mark does not properly update itself when re-applied.
- Pets dismissed when a hunter mounts do not have their buffs decay in real time.
Paladin
Spells, Talents, & Abilities
- A stunned paladin can cast Blessing of Protection on another player.
- A sapped paladin can cast Blessing of Protection on another player.
- Blessing of Kings and Greater Blessing of Kings have different animations.
Priest
Spells, Talents, & Abilities
-Undead Priest ability Touch of Weakness interrupts wand shooting.
- Pain Suppression is not properly affecting the chance to resist dispel mechanics.
- Pain Suppression is not gaining the benefit of Silent resolve or it's own 65% chance to resist dispel.
- The Priest talent proc Surge of Light is consuming mana and can crit when used.
- The spellsurge enchant does not proc when casting dispel or purge.
- Undead Priest ability Touch of Weakness interupts wand shooting.
- Priest talent Pain Suppression is not properly affecting the chance to resist dispel mechanics.
Rogue
Spells, Talents, & Abilities
- Gnome male animation for "Mutilate" causes the main hand dagger to stick through the gnome's shoulder.
- A rogue who uses sap on another player on PvE server will not be flagged for PvP.
Shaman
Spells, Talents, & Abilities
- Weapons appear on the model when shamans attack in ghost wolf form.
Hortus
Blizzard QA
"Random does not mean fair, and past results do not influence future occurrences." - Corbenn
So you are saying again about raising the bar, or just keeping a low profile ?
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
The MMO community should be happy that the bar has been raised, that there ARE new players out there, because those new players are your continuing content.
As for your laundrylist of patch items, everyone knows that an MMO is never really complete, that there are always things that need tweaking. My point is that WoW was less obviously not complete than most MMO launches. The old school MMO community, in my opinion, had a very high tolerance for technical incompetence because they saw so much potential. Blizz has realized a fraction of that potential in very meaningful ways, and yet you attack it for setting the bar too high for your pet projects to ever hope to reach, because you allowed yourself, as consumers, to be taken for a ride.
Don't worry,they're just being spiteful, and pointing out imagined flaws in games - which are in every game.
"unfinished zones" 2005
I know many of you are explorers, so please don't panic, folks.
We're not going to give specific examples here because we don't want the more determined of you to go looking for these areas, but basically, you can tell an area is unfinished by:
1) A complete lack of population or points of interest
2) A population that acts in a manner that is unusual, such as high level elite monsters that have ~100HP (an example)
3) Guardians of Blizzard (mobs) in the area.
Should you get to an area like this, please leave it immediately. If you get there in a manner that was unintentional (such as a malfunctioning port) and do not know how to leave, please use your hearthstone to exit the area. If you die in the area, please use the Spirit Healer at the graveyard.
There are safeguards in place to prevent players from accessing these taboo areas, but we are not infallible, and clever players can find ways past them at times. We will often spawn Guardians of Blizzard in such cases to reaffirm the fact that this is not an area in which you should be exploring. Should you see a Guardian of Blizzard, be advised that the area is unfinished and should not be entered.
Also, please do not share the information of how to get to the area with others. This will only increase the already high chance that action will be taken against your account.
I know this worries some of you, but rest assured these places are not easily found for the moment. Thank you for your cooperation.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Please understand me here...Blizzard isn't perfect, and WoW certainly is not.
There are ALWAYS devils in the details. Patches and tweaks are a way of life in this genre of games. They're never really complete.
But Blizz set a high standard for where to start the patching process...one that other games in the past have been notorious for not being even near. Let's discuss SOE's ongoing issue of releasing incomplete expansions on purpose, using the revenue from the sold expansions to finance the completion of them.
Blizz seems to have a lot on the ball in terms of code and project management that the clowns at SWG a couple of years back could not hope to imitate.
In part this is because Wow is a bit "dumbed down" froom what SWG preCU was doing. Combat is simpler, there is no attempt to create a player driven economy with all the extra code and database transaction activity that implies.
Sure, its not "deep". But it does what it was designed to do, and because it has fundamentally worked well from launch on, especially in comparison with other offerigs from other developers, it has raised expectations of what an MMO should be at launch in terms of presentation and playablity. True, you have a minute fraction of the character creation tools with WoW compared to a lot of games out there. It's cartoony. But it's engaging, it works, and you can get lost in it.
Blizz seems to me, at least, to be a bunch of people who are intent on creating games that will make them money.
Unfortunately, SOE strikes me as an outfit dedicated to making money by selling games...regardlessof quality, and they partnered with an outfit nortorious for slapping "Star Wars" on a box and it selling no matter how much the content of the box was bantha poodoo.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
WoW and Blizzard have absolutley nothing on the real creators of mmos like Mcquaid, Lord British , Turbine as a whole team ,Mind Arc, CCP, funcom Ncsoft ect.
Blizzard took an old WC3 engine modded itm, and took references of each company to make a dollar. in the process "raising the bar" to people who really werent involved in moo's and making a frabricated attempt to claim the genre , theirs,
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
So, your problem with Blizz is that they were smart enough to learn from the lessons taught by the original MMOs and avoid the pratfalls?
This is really constructive.
They've "ruined" MMOs by putting out a product that works.
They've met consumer demand.
Damn them. Damn them to hell for putting out something that is working.
CH, Jedi, Commando, Smuggler, BH, Scout, Doctor, Chef, BE...yeah, lots of SWG time invested.
Once a denizen of Ahazi
Except they created a game that has sold as well or better then all of the producers you list above combined.
Obviously they're doing something right.
Also, thank god for those SAINTS of game designers known as McQuiad and John Smedley, who would've loved to have had an MMO monopoly to mess with their players as much as they wanted - with "new" game designs!
Except they created a game that has sold as well or better then all of the producers you list above combined.
Obviously they're doing something right.
That is simpley false, when ncsoft as a company is the largest mmo producer in the world .
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Except they created a game that has sold as well or better then all of the producers you list above combined.
Obviously they're doing something right.
That is simpley false, when ncsoft as a company is the largest mmo producer in the world <-in Asia but not the West.
Games I've played/tried out:WAR, LOTRO, Tabula Rasa, AoC, EQ1, EQ2, WoW, Vangaurd, FFXI, D&DO, Lineage 2, Saga Of Ryzom, EvE Online, DAoC, Guild Wars,Star Wars Galaxies, Hell Gate London, Auto Assault, Grando Espada ( AKA SoTNW ), Archlord, CoV/H, Star Trek Online, APB, Champions Online, FFXIV, Rift Online, GW2.
Game(s) I Am Currently Playing:
GW2 (+LoL and BF3)
Your attitude is disgusting.
Perception is Reality.
You are advocating sloppy releases and broken promises?
I know of no other technological industry where purchasing a product and it doesn't work as promised or is just strictly missing parts promised you cannot then return it. The software industry makes many excuses for release of a poorly designed or unfinished product, however the rest of the software industry doesn't generally get a monthly cheque to instigate further construction of the product, on top of that they are the consistent victim of piracy. Within the game industry there is NO excuse for this, nor should there be. Paying for the completion of a product if one so decides is fine, the problem lies in this manipulation of the customers by promising features, release dates, followed by bilking money out of the pockets of their customers to fix their consistent failures instead of living up to the standards they set for themselves.
The "state of the industry" is bad because companies feel comfortable releasing trash products. A stable working game with a solid list of features, which is fun to play and different than every other clone on the market is all that is needed, while indeed difficult, their is no excuse, as they set their release dates, they state their design objectives, consequently controlling whether their product will fail or succeed. This is one of the most forgiving industries there is, as gamers will play anything that is fun, engaging, and THAT WORKS.
Excuses for failure are made by those who wish not to take responsibility for their shortcomings and shouldn't have been designing or producing in the first place.
- Burying Threads Since 1979 -
Your attitude is disgusting.
Thank you very much.If WoW would have never come out, You wouldn't even be browsing this forum. As then we would have a little better discussions about point systems and ect , questing and ect , other then Wow suck , WoW rules threads filling up 3/4 of this servers database. Really feel WoW is 2 srtep backward of anything innovative.
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Does NCsoft have one game, any ONE game, with a worldwide 9 million accounts? OK so we all know only half that at best currently active, but do they have 4.5 million active accounts on ONE game? Nope. Not even close to Blizzard.
For that matter, what's NCSoft's annual revenue? What's Blizzard's? 5 will get you 10 I know who makes more money.
Does NCsoft have one game, any ONE game, with a worldwide 9 million accounts? OK so we all know only half that at best currently active, but do they have 4.5 million active accounts on ONE game? Nope. Not even close to Blizzard.
For that matter, what's NCSoft's annual revenue? What's Blizzard's? 5 will get you 10 I know who makes more money.
Guild Wars
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
EDIT: I apparently found out Lineage has 14 million accounts. Mind you three of them are mind and I haven't played them in two years, so if that's any indication...but I will retract what I said earlier. Somewhat. Blizzard is still a larger success.
This one is amusing, you're saying that WOW is bad for gaming because it's a reasonably complete game and that people expect other MMOs to actually be functional at release? I think if I'm paying $50 + $15/month for a game, it should work when I start paying for it, not at some indeterminate point in the future, and I've felt that way before even playing MMOs for games without monthly fees.
I think it's good that WOW makes companies think twice before releasing badly incomplete products. Yes MMOs constantly evolve, and no one ever fixes all of the bugs in commercial software (like arcane missiles, vanish, and cat form range in WOW), but there's a big difference between a game not being perfect and a game not being playable.
O ok, but blizzard still wins some how .
Sony Online Entertainment Steals Customers Money
Why should they wait 3 months for the game to get good? For almost every commercial release that's another 30 bucks, so forget it. If they can't make the game with the resources they have then they need to scale back. Vanguard was doomed because it had an exceptionally sloppy company making it (see Artifact Entertainment). Turbine produced a couple stinkers in a row, yet from what I hear LOTRO had the most polish on release yet.
Contrary to popular opinion, WoW didn't really have an amazing amount of polish on D-Day. It was certainly in a superior class compared to most MMOs but there were plenty of glitches and content deserts. Its biggest success came from the momentum of the name behind it, its draws as a game deserve much less credit. However one thing it did do is make playing it seem much less like a job; if you don't like leveling in WoW, I can't imagine what you would have liked of the games before it.