Well tbh we have no idea what EQ2 numbers are since the only ever published figure was a "guesswork"(and he even sort of admitted it on this forums) ancient data from sirbruce which was given way after his best days of actually getting more accurate data.I say 300k is an extremely low estimate to be honest.
173k of June of this year. Although Ten Ton Hammer reported Subs were down below 90k a month or two ago. But since then SOE has given away over 200k free copies of EQ2 including all expansions and free play time so one would think the game population is going up even if its just from free players.
sorry but that site is certainly nowhere convincing.As always mmorpg numbers remain purely guesswork for most parts as companies generally hide their numbers.
At one point(a while ago) i only trusted sirbruce because he tends to have some good inside information which was confirmed later on when a company released its numbers.And when his contacts faded off he did same as all the rest sites-guess.
Until i find another sirbruce who releases numbers and then gets confirmed later by a company i would not trust any random guessing.
I would certainly hold it to be more reliable with less prejudice than anyones guess here. No offense intended. Until I see anything more reliable than than MMO chart or TTH's estimates of 90-173k I will go by them.
I'm short of time so have only read the first pages of posts. Apologies if this has been said to death in the 2nd/3rd pages....
All this talk about EQ2 being unpolished at launch makes it sound like Vanguard. I'm a determined solo player i..e will solo 99% of content. At launch EQ2 was great for a soloer - the only groups I formed were for AQs and access quests and were a big laugh at the same time (shared exp loss adds that element of risj - particularly for the tank I was playing at the time).
I can only guess that people who bleat on about EQ2 being a mess at launch a) never actually played it at launch and just regurgitate the tired arguments they have read, b) didn't look particularly hard for content. Either way they are talking rubbish.
Both games are kinda lame imo, if i had to pick one though it would be WoW. Warcraft is at least fun, for some reason EQ1 - EQ2 always feel like you just got a second job. (no fun, all work/grind)
Wow are people still debating why WoW was successful? IT is pretty simple.
I will make it easy for you guys. World of Warcraft had the most advertising for any MMO game ever. Every single person that plays on Battle Net was getting advertisements for World of Warcraft. That is free advertising to over 20 million people. Those 20 million told their friends and Blizzard was able to keep over 8 million of them as subscribers to WoW. That is the trick that Blizzard used. Nothing else. They put out a polished product (but honestly it could of been covered in dog crap) and had an audience entirely to themselves.
No other MMO company could touch that type of advertising campaign. To make a simple comparison that would be like Microsoft putting out an MMO and everytime you loaded up windows you saw the Ad for the game. If Microsoft actually did that they would have an MMO with more subscribers then WoW has.
I don't know why people try to make it difficult. They could of reversed the two games entirely and Blizzard would of still had the hit and SOE would not.
Heck Blizzard could of released DnL or Horizons with the Warcraft name and the same AD Campaign and it would be the Biggest MMO in the world.
EVeryone seems to discount the almighty advertisement. It is truely the main key to Blizzard's success. THink about it. World of Warcraft otherwise is everything people hated about Everquest 1 (raid grinding being the main thing) with none of the good stuff from EQ1 (like world exploration) and yet the game is still huge.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
WoW was my first MMO. It's also the first MMO I heard a whole lot about.
I had heard a little about Everquest, but wasn't even sure what it was. But everyone was always talking about WoW before it came out and how it was an "extension" of Warcraft III, which I loved.
After playing WoW for a little while my friends and I got bored, so we decided to try a couple of other MMO's (namely DAoC and EQ2). We found that we liked DAoC and EQ2 tons more.
But honestly, had I never heard of WoW and tried it out I never would have played EQ2 or DAoC. I just didn't understand much what MMO's were before WoW.
My point is, it was from Blizzard. That was and is the big selling point. Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo, are legendary in the gaming industry. All it took was having the name Warcraft on it to sell. Sure, Everquest is legendary in the MMO market, but like I said, a lot of us new to MMO's had never tried an MMO before WoW.
Personally, I find EQ2 infinitely better. I wish I would have spent the time I spent playing WoW in Norrath instead. But, WoW was my gateway drug.
============================= It all seems so stupid It makes me want to give up But why should I give up When it all seems so stupid
Both games are kinda lame imo, if i had to pick one though it would be WoW. Warcraft is at least fun, for some reason EQ1 - EQ2 always feel like you just got a second job. (no fun, all work/grind)
Then please explain to me and everyone else what exactly WoW is then
Wow are people still debating why WoW was successful? IT is pretty simple.
I will make it easy for you guys. World of Warcraft had the most advertising for any MMO game ever. Every single person that plays on Battle Net was getting advertisements for World of Warcraft. That is free advertising to over 20 million people. Those 20 million told their friends and Blizzard was able to keep over 8 million of them as subscribers to WoW. That is the trick that Blizzard used. Nothing else. They put out a polished product (but honestly it could of been covered in dog crap) and had an audience entirely to themselves. No other MMO company could touch that type of advertising campaign. To make a simple comparison that would be like Microsoft putting out an MMO and everytime you loaded up windows you saw the Ad for the game. If Microsoft actually did that they would have an MMO with more subscribers then WoW has. I don't know why people try to make it difficult. They could of reversed the two games entirely and Blizzard would of still had the hit and SOE would not. Heck Blizzard could of released DnL or Horizons with the Warcraft name and the same AD Campaign and it would be the Biggest MMO in the world.
EVeryone seems to discount the almighty advertisement. It is truely the main key to Blizzard's success. THink about it. World of Warcraft otherwise is everything people hated about Everquest 1 (raid grinding being the main thing) with none of the good stuff from EQ1 (like world exploration) and yet the game is still huge.
Um, advertising always plays a role but its not the deciding factor by any means, WoW is successful because its polished and well done game with high fun factor, no one would give a rats ass for advertisement, if anything that would get you to buy the game and if the game wasnt enjoyable and fun you'd quit just like alot of people quit LotR.
According to your theory LotR should have even more subscribers because they have done a better job than Blizzard as far as advertisement, they even give players free play time if they get a buddy hooked to their game, and not to mention that LotR is a far more widely popular title and lore than WoW but at the same time their subs dont even compare to WoWs, and it is also a well polished game too.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC -Playing WoW -Retired- SWG -Retired- EVE -Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled) - 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
At EQ2 releases, SoE has a reputation that wasn't that nice. Peoples know what SoE did, for the best, or for the worst.
At WoW release, Blizzard has a crystal clear reputation. Players almost exclusively think of Blizzard in a positive way. Now, if Blizzard release a new game, with WoW and it impact on their reputation...good luck getting 10% of the success of WoW, cause I would be willing to bet $25 that Blizzard won't get to 10% of WoW success.
EQ players where not in admiration before SoE. Some respect them, some hate them, some despite some decisions they made. Same with every other SoE product.
Diablo players where usually in admiration before Blizzard. Some respect Blizzard, some love them in some dirty ways, but very few would actually have hate them or despite any decision they made. Same with all other products they release except WoW. Blizzard now have haters and peoples who despite some decisions they made. That will have consequences on any future release.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I feel the core of EQ2 combat systems a tad poor. And really i feel its very important to have a good one. While i don't care for the grind and equip hi-jinks of WoW the core of its combat system (and really the entire thing) are done quite nicely. And i really think this helps WoW.
Not saying this is THEE reason WoW is more sucessful, but instead this is a reason that s not normally talked about.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
EQ being better than WoW is opinion. IMO, EQ2 is not better than WoW. EQ2 isn't even close to half as good as its former. EQ at one time. like when it was popular and wasn't a raidfest, was better than WoW, IMO. EQ2 never was, and never will be. WoW is popular, because its immersive and extremely casual. Too many people underestimate how appealing it is to log on kick butt, and having to rely on no one. You don't need a healer to group or PvP. 3 warriors can go around kicking butt in PvE or PvP. That's not going to happen in EQ. Yea, it might happen in EQ2, but I EQ2 lacks something. A lot of people would apparently agree with that. and, quite frankly, that's all that matters.
Wow are people still debating why WoW was successful? IT is pretty simple.
I will make it easy for you guys. World of Warcraft had the most advertising for any MMO game ever. Every single person that plays on Battle Net was getting advertisements for World of Warcraft. That is free advertising to over 20 million people. Those 20 million told their friends and Blizzard was able to keep over 8 million of them as subscribers to WoW. That is the trick that Blizzard used. Nothing else. They put out a polished product (but honestly it could of been covered in dog crap) and had an audience entirely to themselves. No other MMO company could touch that type of advertising campaign. To make a simple comparison that would be like Microsoft putting out an MMO and everytime you loaded up windows you saw the Ad for the game. If Microsoft actually did that they would have an MMO with more subscribers then WoW has. I don't know why people try to make it difficult. They could of reversed the two games entirely and Blizzard would of still had the hit and SOE would not. Heck Blizzard could of released DnL or Horizons with the Warcraft name and the same AD Campaign and it would be the Biggest MMO in the world.
EVeryone seems to discount the almighty advertisement. It is truely the main key to Blizzard's success. THink about it. World of Warcraft otherwise is everything people hated about Everquest 1 (raid grinding being the main thing) with none of the good stuff from EQ1 (like world exploration) and yet the game is still huge.
Um, advertising always plays a role but its not the deciding factor by any means, WoW is successful because its polished and well done game with high fun factor, no one would give a rats ass for advertisement, if anything that would get you to buy the game and if the game wasnt enjoyable and fun you'd quit just like alot of people quit LotR.
According to your theory LotR should have even more subscribers because they have done a better job than Blizzard as far as advertisement, they even give players free play time if they get a buddy hooked to their game, and not to mention that LotR is a far more widely popular title and lore than WoW but at the same time their subs dont even compare to WoWs, and it is also a well polished game too.
No one in the industry has done better then Blizzard in Advertisement. Blizzard advertised World of Warcraft to millions of players who had never even heard of a MMO game. They advertised all over Battle Net. Where is Turbine's free system of 20+ million players who have to see their advertisements for LOTRO? Every single person who has bought a copy of Warcraft RTS games, Starcraft RTS games, or Diablo games has heard of WoW due to Blizzard's advertisement. No other MMO company can compete with that type of ad space.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Advertising only gets you so far. Quality and value keep customers coming back. If WoW lacked quality or value, then people wouldn't play it. Advertising has nothing to do with keeping subscribers.
EQ being better than WoW is opinion. IMO, EQ2 is not better than WoW. EQ2 isn't even close to half as good as its former. EQ at one time. like when it was popular and wasn't a raidfest, was better than WoW, IMO. EQ2 never was, and never will be. WoW is popular, because its immersive and extremely casual. Too many people underestimate how appealing it is to log on kick butt, and having to rely on no one. You don't need a healer to group or PvP. 3 warriors can go around kicking butt in PvE or PvP. That's not going to happen in EQ. Yea, it might happen in EQ2, but I EQ2 lacks something. A lot of people would apparently agree with that. and, quite frankly, that's all that matters.
Sure at the low end game. Try that against tiered up raiders. Oh wait that is right World of Warcraft is the biggest bait and switch job in the whole industry. They sell people on the "casual friendly" game play and then at max level they spring the "hardcore raid/pvp grind" on you.
World of Warcraft as a game wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't released by Blizzard and didn't have Warcraft in the name.
Once again we could switch Everquest 2 entire game design with Blizzard's WoW and then have released them and the same thing would of happened. Blizzard with the same engine and the same bugs that plagued EQ2 would of been a massive hit and SOE would of still bombed respectively.
People seem to throw around the word "polished" too easily to describe WoW. People seem to forget that massive amounts of realms just crashed, huge queues were in place, game crashing bugs (like the loot bug, mining bug) were in at release, the game wasn't complete and things that were promised weren't in at release, class defining skills (like Vanish) were broken, etc etc. Yet World of Warcraft survived where other games would of bombed. That isn't because of the fun game play or the casual style, because for a significant % of the population they couldn't even get into the game to experience it and when they did they crashed and were stuck back in the queue.
Still Blizzard was able to overcome this without any real setback. Why? Well of course because of the massive cult-like following that Blizzard games have and the massive advertising to get new players in that they did.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Advertising only gets you so far. Quality and value keep customers coming back. If WoW lacked quality or value, then people wouldn't play it. Advertising has nothing to do with keeping subscribers.
World of Warcraft at release was just as buggy as Vanguard for Massive amounts of players. They had servers that didn't work due to the loads. They had bugs that were in at release and well past. They had promised content that didn't make it in. Heck they released with hardly any endgame at all and no PVP system at all.
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Advertising only gets you so far. Quality and value keep customers coming back. If WoW lacked quality or value, then people wouldn't play it. Advertising has nothing to do with keeping subscribers.
World of Warcraft at release was just as buggy as Vanguard for Massive amounts of players. They had servers that didn't work due to the loads. They had bugs that were in at release and well past. They had promised content that didn't make it in. Heck they released with hardly any endgame at all and no PVP system at all.
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
Wow had all tghe features and was tweaked on certain classes. Wow had endgame MOLTAN CORE, Onyxia lair.
Advertising only gets you so far. Quality and value keep customers coming back. If WoW lacked quality or value, then people wouldn't play it. Advertising has nothing to do with keeping subscribers.
World of Warcraft at release was just as buggy as Vanguard for Massive amounts of players. They had servers that didn't work due to the loads. They had bugs that were in at release and well past. They had promised content that didn't make it in. Heck they released with hardly any endgame at all and no PVP system at all.
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
Wow had all tghe features and was tweaked on certain classes. Wow had endgame MOLTAN CORE, Onyxia lair.
That is a lie. There was no PVP system at release. No BGs. Rogues were broken as well as numerous other classes. Maradan (sp?) wasn't in at release. Neither was Dire Maul and both were supposed to be. I suppose the Mining loot Bug that made people have to log off was a feature too?
Currently playing: LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too: Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
EQ being better than WoW is opinion. IMO, EQ2 is not better than WoW. EQ2 isn't even close to half as good as its former. EQ at one time. like when it was popular and wasn't a raidfest, was better than WoW, IMO. EQ2 never was, and never will be. WoW is popular, because its immersive and extremely casual. Too many people underestimate how appealing it is to log on kick butt, and having to rely on no one. You don't need a healer to group or PvP. 3 warriors can go around kicking butt in PvE or PvP. That's not going to happen in EQ. Yea, it might happen in EQ2, but I EQ2 lacks something. A lot of people would apparently agree with that. and, quite frankly, that's all that matters.
You start out by saying EQ being better than WoW is opinion, then spew out your own opinion as fact.
Your statment about pvp in wow not needing a healer is untrue... unless your talking about running SS/TM ganking low level toons.
Advertising only gets you so far. Quality and value keep customers coming back. If WoW lacked quality or value, then people wouldn't play it. Advertising has nothing to do with keeping subscribers.
World of Warcraft at release was just as buggy as Vanguard for Massive amounts of players. They had servers that didn't work due to the loads. They had bugs that were in at release and well past. They had promised content that didn't make it in. Heck they released with hardly any endgame at all and no PVP system at all.
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
It's a waste of time talking to you Cabe. You've already got it in your mind that you are right, and everyone else that disagrees is wrong. So far the only thing you've proven, is that you seem to think the world revolves around your opinions.
When you are ready to actually debate or discuss something. People will probably take the time to write up rebuttals to your post. Until the time you are ready, i'm just going to shrug off your post like many in this thread are already doing.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
EQ being better than WoW is opinion. IMO, EQ2 is not better than WoW. EQ2 isn't even close to half as good as its former. EQ at one time. like when it was popular and wasn't a raidfest, was better than WoW, IMO. EQ2 never was, and never will be. WoW is popular, because its immersive and extremely casual. Too many people underestimate how appealing it is to log on kick butt, and having to rely on no one. You don't need a healer to group or PvP. 3 warriors can go around kicking butt in PvE or PvP. That's not going to happen in EQ. Yea, it might happen in EQ2, but I EQ2 lacks something. A lot of people would apparently agree with that. and, quite frankly, that's all that matters.
You start out by saying EQ being better than WoW is opinion, then spew out your own opinion as fact.
Your statment about pvp in wow not needing a healer is untrue... unless your talking about running SS/TM ganking low level toons.
Actually it is true. Have you actually taken the time to look at some of the pre-made BG groups and arena teams? ALOT of them do not have any sort of healing at all outside of bandages and potions.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
I believe WoW success is, above all, due to word of mouth. In fact, at launch (as already pointed out here) both games were going neck-to-neck until WoW pulled ahead. I have personally introduced a few people to WoW. They are still playing, even though I am not.
EQ2 IMO is a piss poor game. Or was, dunno how it is now. I can't speak for other people, but to me these factors made it unbearable to play:
1. Lack of freedom (compared to EQ)
2. Lack of racial towns (getting to know EQ's different flavors was a huge part of the experience)
3. Zoning - after experiencing a seamless world, zoning is unacceptable.
4. Lack of solo content
5. Animations were very rough
6. SOE-like constant flow of expansions (you gotta keep up with them all - specially for a group centric game EQ2 is)
In fact, I had a more EQ-esque experience playing WoW than playing EQ2.
Again, perhaps the game has improved by now, but it may be just a little, and a little too late.
And I agree with the poster below, WoW was rock solid at launch, for a MMO. Actually, I didn't even experience the server problems ppl were talking so much about.
Comments
173k of June of this year. Although Ten Ton Hammer reported Subs were down below 90k a month or two ago. But since then SOE has given away over 200k free copies of EQ2 including all expansions and free play time so one would think the game population is going up even if its just from free players.
sorry but that site is certainly nowhere convincing.As always mmorpg numbers remain purely guesswork for most parts as companies generally hide their numbers.At one point(a while ago) i only trusted sirbruce because he tends to have some good inside information which was confirmed later on when a company released its numbers.And when his contacts faded off he did same as all the rest sites-guess.
Until i find another sirbruce who releases numbers and then gets confirmed later by a company i would not trust any random guessing.
I would certainly hold it to be more reliable with less prejudice than anyones guess here. No offense intended. Until I see anything more reliable than than MMO chart or TTH's estimates of 90-173k I will go by them.
I'm short of time so have only read the first pages of posts. Apologies if this has been said to death in the 2nd/3rd pages....
All this talk about EQ2 being unpolished at launch makes it sound like Vanguard. I'm a determined solo player i..e will solo 99% of content. At launch EQ2 was great for a soloer - the only groups I formed were for AQs and access quests and were a big laugh at the same time (shared exp loss adds that element of risj - particularly for the tank I was playing at the time).
I can only guess that people who bleat on about EQ2 being a mess at launch a) never actually played it at launch and just regurgitate the tired arguments they have read, b) didn't look particularly hard for content. Either way they are talking rubbish.
Both games are kinda lame imo, if i had to pick one though it would be WoW. Warcraft is at least fun, for some reason EQ1 - EQ2 always feel like you just got a second job. (no fun, all work/grind)
Wow are people still debating why WoW was successful? IT is pretty simple.
I will make it easy for you guys. World of Warcraft had the most advertising for any MMO game ever. Every single person that plays on Battle Net was getting advertisements for World of Warcraft. That is free advertising to over 20 million people. Those 20 million told their friends and Blizzard was able to keep over 8 million of them as subscribers to WoW. That is the trick that Blizzard used. Nothing else. They put out a polished product (but honestly it could of been covered in dog crap) and had an audience entirely to themselves.
No other MMO company could touch that type of advertising campaign. To make a simple comparison that would be like Microsoft putting out an MMO and everytime you loaded up windows you saw the Ad for the game. If Microsoft actually did that they would have an MMO with more subscribers then WoW has.
I don't know why people try to make it difficult. They could of reversed the two games entirely and Blizzard would of still had the hit and SOE would not.
Heck Blizzard could of released DnL or Horizons with the Warcraft name and the same AD Campaign and it would be the Biggest MMO in the world.
EVeryone seems to discount the almighty advertisement. It is truely the main key to Blizzard's success. THink about it. World of Warcraft otherwise is everything people hated about Everquest 1 (raid grinding being the main thing) with none of the good stuff from EQ1 (like world exploration) and yet the game is still huge.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
WoW was my first MMO. It's also the first MMO I heard a whole lot about.
I had heard a little about Everquest, but wasn't even sure what it was. But everyone was always talking about WoW before it came out and how it was an "extension" of Warcraft III, which I loved.
After playing WoW for a little while my friends and I got bored, so we decided to try a couple of other MMO's (namely DAoC and EQ2). We found that we liked DAoC and EQ2 tons more.
But honestly, had I never heard of WoW and tried it out I never would have played EQ2 or DAoC. I just didn't understand much what MMO's were before WoW.
My point is, it was from Blizzard. That was and is the big selling point. Warcraft, Starcraft, Diablo, are legendary in the gaming industry. All it took was having the name Warcraft on it to sell. Sure, Everquest is legendary in the MMO market, but like I said, a lot of us new to MMO's had never tried an MMO before WoW.
Personally, I find EQ2 infinitely better. I wish I would have spent the time I spent playing WoW in Norrath instead. But, WoW was my gateway drug.
=============================
It all seems so stupid
It makes me want to give up
But why should I give up
When it all seems so stupid
EQ2 was plagued with problems before and after launch. I'm sorry OP, but it still doesn't deserve WoW's success.
Then please explain to me and everyone else what exactly WoW is then
Looking for something new.
Um, advertising always plays a role but its not the deciding factor by any means, WoW is successful because its polished and well done game with high fun factor, no one would give a rats ass for advertisement, if anything that would get you to buy the game and if the game wasnt enjoyable and fun you'd quit just like alot of people quit LotR.
According to your theory LotR should have even more subscribers because they have done a better job than Blizzard as far as advertisement, they even give players free play time if they get a buddy hooked to their game, and not to mention that LotR is a far more widely popular title and lore than WoW but at the same time their subs dont even compare to WoWs, and it is also a well polished game too.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC
-Playing WoW
-Retired- SWG
-Retired- EVE
-Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled)
- 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
Why in hell would the subscribers of EQ2 want WoW success and get the same type of community they have?
At EQ2 releases, SoE has a reputation that wasn't that nice. Peoples know what SoE did, for the best, or for the worst.
At WoW release, Blizzard has a crystal clear reputation. Players almost exclusively think of Blizzard in a positive way. Now, if Blizzard release a new game, with WoW and it impact on their reputation...good luck getting 10% of the success of WoW, cause I would be willing to bet $25 that Blizzard won't get to 10% of WoW success.
EQ players where not in admiration before SoE. Some respect them, some hate them, some despite some decisions they made. Same with every other SoE product.
Diablo players where usually in admiration before Blizzard. Some respect Blizzard, some love them in some dirty ways, but very few would actually have hate them or despite any decision they made. Same with all other products they release except WoW. Blizzard now have haters and peoples who despite some decisions they made. That will have consequences on any future release.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I don't know, mabye they want more players playing so that they can do their group quests, who knows though its gotta be something.
A man dies daily, only to be reborn in the morning, bigger, better and wiser.
-Playing AoC
-Playing WoW
-Retired- SWG
-Retired- EVE
-Retired- LotR
Computer (- Phenom 9600 Black Edition @ 2.81 Ghz (Quad Core CPU)- Gigabyte MA790FX-DS5 - 4 Gigs of PC 8500 ram (1066)- EVGA GeForce 8800 GTS PCI Express 2.0 - WD 500GB 7500RPM - Zalman CPU cooler (air cooled)
- 24" Widescreen 1080P HD display).
k
I feel the core of EQ2 combat systems a tad poor. And really i feel its very important to have a good one. While i don't care for the grind and equip hi-jinks of WoW the core of its combat system (and really the entire thing) are done quite nicely. And i really think this helps WoW.
Not saying this is THEE reason WoW is more sucessful, but instead this is a reason that s not normally talked about.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
It's called a perfect storm of events.
1) First true lull in the MMO universe while EQ1's popularity was failing
2) Blizzard had a rep for making quality titles.
3) People still sore from SOE gutting EQ1 were never going to give EQII a chance.
4) WOW was fun and easy while EQII was more like work for many.
5) EQII required top of the line hardware while WOW could be ran on a toaster.
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
EQ being better than WoW is opinion. IMO, EQ2 is not better than WoW. EQ2 isn't even close to half as good as its former. EQ at one time. like when it was popular and wasn't a raidfest, was better than WoW, IMO. EQ2 never was, and never will be. WoW is popular, because its immersive and extremely casual. Too many people underestimate how appealing it is to log on kick butt, and having to rely on no one. You don't need a healer to group or PvP. 3 warriors can go around kicking butt in PvE or PvP. That's not going to happen in EQ. Yea, it might happen in EQ2, but I EQ2 lacks something. A lot of people would apparently agree with that. and, quite frankly, that's all that matters.
Um, advertising always plays a role but its not the deciding factor by any means, WoW is successful because its polished and well done game with high fun factor, no one would give a rats ass for advertisement, if anything that would get you to buy the game and if the game wasnt enjoyable and fun you'd quit just like alot of people quit LotR.
According to your theory LotR should have even more subscribers because they have done a better job than Blizzard as far as advertisement, they even give players free play time if they get a buddy hooked to their game, and not to mention that LotR is a far more widely popular title and lore than WoW but at the same time their subs dont even compare to WoWs, and it is also a well polished game too.
No one in the industry has done better then Blizzard in Advertisement. Blizzard advertised World of Warcraft to millions of players who had never even heard of a MMO game. They advertised all over Battle Net. Where is Turbine's free system of 20+ million players who have to see their advertisements for LOTRO? Every single person who has bought a copy of Warcraft RTS games, Starcraft RTS games, or Diablo games has heard of WoW due to Blizzard's advertisement. No other MMO company can compete with that type of ad space.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Advertising only gets you so far. Quality and value keep customers coming back. If WoW lacked quality or value, then people wouldn't play it. Advertising has nothing to do with keeping subscribers.
World of Warcraft as a game wouldn't be so popular if it wasn't released by Blizzard and didn't have Warcraft in the name.
Once again we could switch Everquest 2 entire game design with Blizzard's WoW and then have released them and the same thing would of happened. Blizzard with the same engine and the same bugs that plagued EQ2 would of been a massive hit and SOE would of still bombed respectively.
People seem to throw around the word "polished" too easily to describe WoW. People seem to forget that massive amounts of realms just crashed, huge queues were in place, game crashing bugs (like the loot bug, mining bug) were in at release, the game wasn't complete and things that were promised weren't in at release, class defining skills (like Vanish) were broken, etc etc. Yet World of Warcraft survived where other games would of bombed. That isn't because of the fun game play or the casual style, because for a significant % of the population they couldn't even get into the game to experience it and when they did they crashed and were stuck back in the queue.
Still Blizzard was able to overcome this without any real setback. Why? Well of course because of the massive cult-like following that Blizzard games have and the massive advertising to get new players in that they did.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
Wow had all tghe features and was tweaked on certain classes. Wow had endgame MOLTAN CORE, Onyxia lair.
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
Wow had all tghe features and was tweaked on certain classes. Wow had endgame MOLTAN CORE, Onyxia lair.
That is a lie. There was no PVP system at release. No BGs. Rogues were broken as well as numerous other classes. Maradan (sp?) wasn't in at release. Neither was Dire Maul and both were supposed to be. I suppose the Mining loot Bug that made people have to log off was a feature too?
Currently playing:
LOTRO & WoW (not much WoW though because Mines of Moria rocks!!!!)
Looking Foward too:
Bioware games (Dragon Age & Star Wars The Old Republic)
Your statment about pvp in wow not needing a healer is untrue... unless your talking about running SS/TM ganking low level toons.
So quit trying to sell the snake oil. World of Warcraft was no more polished then DAoC, CoH, LOTRO, or a lot of other games. Yet WoW succeeded massively where others failed.
It's a waste of time talking to you Cabe. You've already got it in your mind that you are right, and everyone else that disagrees is wrong. So far the only thing you've proven, is that you seem to think the world revolves around your opinions.
When you are ready to actually debate or discuss something. People will probably take the time to write up rebuttals to your post. Until the time you are ready, i'm just going to shrug off your post like many in this thread are already doing.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
Your statment about pvp in wow not needing a healer is untrue... unless your talking about running SS/TM ganking low level toons.
Actually it is true. Have you actually taken the time to look at some of the pre-made BG groups and arena teams? ALOT of them do not have any sort of healing at all outside of bandages and potions.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
I believe WoW success is, above all, due to word of mouth. In fact, at launch (as already pointed out here) both games were going neck-to-neck until WoW pulled ahead. I have personally introduced a few people to WoW. They are still playing, even though I am not.
EQ2 IMO is a piss poor game. Or was, dunno how it is now. I can't speak for other people, but to me these factors made it unbearable to play:
1. Lack of freedom (compared to EQ)
2. Lack of racial towns (getting to know EQ's different flavors was a huge part of the experience)
3. Zoning - after experiencing a seamless world, zoning is unacceptable.
4. Lack of solo content
5. Animations were very rough
6. SOE-like constant flow of expansions (you gotta keep up with them all - specially for a group centric game EQ2 is)
In fact, I had a more EQ-esque experience playing WoW than playing EQ2.
Again, perhaps the game has improved by now, but it may be just a little, and a little too late.
And I agree with the poster below, WoW was rock solid at launch, for a MMO. Actually, I didn't even experience the server problems ppl were talking so much about.