You can cut around the corner all that you want but WoW is sucessful because it is a great game that has played the cards right and EQ2 isnt because it is simply not as good/addictive/fun to play/friendly/content/smooth/addicting.
WoW is successful for lots of reasons, it is true the battle.net is an aspect of this. But at the same time it is also true it is a highly rated game.
Well, as i said before you cant really talk about who likes what...i dont care much what people write here about wow cause they got disapointed in some way. Was it before they couldnt get "into" game, or they want some other aspect of game (PvP).
WoW become popular because it came in right moment and it was available to all. It is game for kids who are 10years old to oldies who are 60 years old. It is "cartoony" and "romantic" game where you choose to paly cute warrior girl who will fight fire elemental with other 39 people arround her. From very moment you started to play you got big map to discover, tons of quests, tons of diferent mobs, tons of diferent armor etc etc.
Game maybe have poor graphic, but its designed too good, and that uber design shades bad graphics. and not only that, because of "cartoony" graphics and really good engine/code you can play wow on every machine. I was playing it on my thinkpad T3x something with 1.8 proc, and 128 mb ram and 16mb GFX card Ati 7100 (if i remember right). What other game can you play on this machine?!? none i think.
Realism and fact is that none of incoming games will hurt WoW, no mather how much bad reviews do you trolls post, no mather how much you flame on this forum about how crappy game is. Im sorry but Warhammer wont do it, Conan wont do it...Tabula Rasa wont do it. For some time wow will have constant of 8 mil accounts, if not more (new players, new content etc). If any of those named games get playerbase of 1 milion they can be happy, but i really really doubt it.
WOW WILL STAY ON FIRST PLACE FOR LONG LONG LONG TIME, I KNOW YOU DONT LIKE IT...AND YOU CANT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT (except to whine here on this forum...or if you go and buy Conan or Warhammer for everyone you know...hehehe)
--------------------> Would you like some cheese with that whine?
In fact, EQ II was a complete mess at release, demands too high, the character development too shallow, the content too twodimensional. The developers of EQ II said themselves, after release that they were themselves playing WoW and they coudl see how they should have made things differently. After TONS of patching, TONS upon tons of patching, with additions to the game mostly borrowed or inspired from WoW (you know, the game you hate so much, but the EQ II devs themselves like?), it finally turned into the quality product it is today, and finally recieved its reward, longlasting player commitment and a solid playerbase.
So.. Maybe dont bash the reason EQ II have risen from the ashes... The WoW you find so subpar.. is the reason EQ II is as good as it is today. Me and many others from closed beta and forward really wondered what could save EQ II from a disaster.. WoW was it.
I think that EQ2 is a very good game. It's just that WoW is better over all. Especially with the way the world is made, it's a true work of art. EQ2 is a patchwork quilt of a world with poor art direction. Like someone else said, once you've become accustomed to a seamless world, zoning becomes a huge immersion breaker.
Hellfire Peninsula = best zone ever.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
EQ2 is a really decent game. It's a shame it had to start off so rough, it almost seems like it should have blown up as big as WoW did. But WoW is WoW. It, in my personal opinion, the best MMo at this moment and for moments to come. It's sleek, smooth, and exciting. It also has a bunch of great players in it, but since you have 9 million people playing, your going to have you lemons. . .every game has them. I remember those players from way back in UO. It's just something you have to deal with. I do look forward to WAR, but in all honesty I don't think it will compare to WoW in numbers and fun factor. I have been hearing many mixed reviews from some insiders about WAR and it's combat. . .but that is for me to keep.
WoW is the game at this moment. And it will be for a long time. And when WoW starts to die off, Blizzard will probably introduce another MMO (which they said they will create another one day) and dominate again. Just because it's Blizzard people. Starcraft? Diablo? Warcraft? All superior games.
/played-mmorpgs
Total time played:9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
You obviously did not think about the question before you asked.
SOE published EQII before it was ready just to beat Wow out the door by a week or two. Very bad decision, many tried it and recieved very negative vibes about the game.
While it has nice graphics, the computer requirements were far to high for most players when it came out.
It took SOE about a year to get the game into the state it is in now.
Now when people get the game there are very few people in the low level areas, hence they don't stay long.
No question EQ2 is a better game, just that no one wants to level by themselves.
Weather EQ2 is a better game or not right now is a personal opinion. Personally I've tried it at release and I've gone back and tried it recently. I didn't try out the new newbie areas which I hear are great, but went back to the old starting area of freeport. It's still a horrible place. No matter where you start in WoW it's fun to play. Freeport should just be removed from the game. As noted by a few people the animations are all nearly the same and are very stiff and awkward feeling when moving around. The characters look like they are running around with something stuck up their butt. I still don't enjoy the combat style. The UI is unappealing to me. Everything is nearly perfectly rectangle and I don't like the choice of colors. I know you can customize this, but why should you have to? The whole clicking on the heroic button to get a more powerful attack just doesn't do anything for me. I don't really understand why it's in the game at all. There are some interesting quests here and there, but it's hard to find interesting ones. Overall it's an okay game, but I can see why WoW is more appealing to others.
Yeah I mean that's one of the big problems when you try to make your game realistic. Memory limitations means that all the races in EQ2 have exactly the same animations. They walk the same, they fight the same, they dance the same. It's as if all the races are just humans in a costume or with green skin paint.
In WoW, undead move like zombies, orcs move like orcs, and Blood Elves dance like Napolean Dynamite. You just can't beat that
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Ye, its tons and tons of details...How character move, walk, sit, ride, shot, dance, eat...how surroundings react on him...when you enter ironforge its not copy/paste of same characters (alltho character customisation is crap).
All land look different, crap graphics but uber design...
That was problem when i entered every other game including LOTRO...first thing i notice (and it makes me sick from start) is bad character movement...maybe its because all WoW is cartoony...so cartoony character esay blend with cartoony background and suroundings...but in every other game where devs want to show "realism" it ends up strange and un natural...like Anarchy online...character movement there is like Michael Jackson moonwalking all the time...
And i know its not important but i cant or i have trouble connect with those games...i
--------------------> Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Originally posted by Qark That was problem when i entered every other game including LOTRO...first thing i notice (and it makes me sick from start) is bad character movement...maybe its because all WoW is cartoony...so cartoony character esay blend with cartoony background and suroundings...but in every other game where devs want to show "realism" it ends up strange and un natural...like Anarchy online...character movement there is like Michael Jackson moonwalking all the time...
Yes, I'd agree with your comments about "realistic" graphics vs. cartoony ones. I think a bunch of characters with the same basic body types running around like they have broomsticks up their behinds breaks immersion for me much more than cartoony looking graphics. This is not a specific stab at EQ2. I just think game engines have not reached the point yet where they can make "realistic" character animations look 100% believable. This wouldn't stop me from playing a game, but when we're looking at two games with pretty similar play styles and leveling systems, I'd tend to go for the cartoonier of the two.
Originally posted by healz4u I am in agreement. However, EQ 2 does have the creative success that WoW lacks. The reason for WoW's high subscription numbers is the Asian market, the accessibility of the game due to low tech demands, and individuals with multiple accounts. When I was a Guild Leader in WoW, I had two accounts: 1) a hunter and 2) a dwarf Priest. I had the other account to help my Guild with raiding certain dungeons. Many in WoW have multiple accounts, bot programs on other computer programs, and a sizable population is involved in gold farming and power leveling services.
When I consider WoW's commercial success, I consider it a bit misleading. I would be interested to know what the American subscription number is for WoW. It might be lower than EQ 2?
In terms of creativity, I seldom discuss the issue because it is not even debatable. EQ 2 has greater depth, superior graphics, more interesting and fun gameplay, and Quests that are actually meaningful. WoW lacks player housing, and I really enjoy EQ's player housing as you can have bars in your house to pictures taken of EQ 1's dungeons. In WoW, you are very forced. You can solo to the max level but your options at the end-game are limited to certain activities. In EQ 1, you can mentor (and receive experience from mentoring) by helping lower level friends and community members in various dungeons. In other words, if you are only level 10 but your friend is level 35, you two can both group and receive AA experience. The character customization in EQ 2, from appearance to abilities, is by far better. As I said, EQ 2 is truly better than WoW in each and every way from community to graphics to the important fun factor.
EH, red flag on the botters thing. Um, most MMO's who have gold have GOLD FARMING BOTS. So, if WoW has a particular percentage of bots to the player base, equate that ratio to EQ2 or any other MMO out there.
Hmm, What's so funny to me is that Blizzard is the rookie team in the MMO world. All these other companies have developed or sponsored a plethora of projects in this genre and still can't get it right. They get depth but other stuff suffers.
I'm sure Blizzard will take into account all the hate they receive if they choose to make a second MMO( of which can be on any of their franchises).
My opinion is this, no matter which way you slice it....WoW is a pretty good game. It does what they were aiming for. Playability through many different age groups and skill lvls. Even though some like complexity more often than not doesn't mean some 11 yr old out there does. My fun in any MMO is grouping, so most are fun to me.
To the person who said something to the effect that true gamers passed on wow and/or don't continue to play is just talking out your butt. True Gamers play anything imo. Even crappy games. Why do I think this way? Well I equate my own player habits and wants to every self proclaimed "GAMER", which is as follows: I want to experience every game and every story in those games ever made. I want to compete in every game that has a pvp kinda mode. The problem I face is just a matter of time and money. If this weren't an issue I would tackle every game ever created. Easy or Hard. Boring or Involved. *NOTE* I also don't think skill in any game makes you a hard core gamer. I think time dedication to this hobby makes you a hardcore gamer.
Tomatoes or to(e) ma toes. I wasn't bored by WoW.
I don't consider myself a follower but I just so happen to follow sometimes. So I play a game that my friends play? Big deal. Have you ever gone to a party that your friends were going to and you didn't know who's house it was? Have you ever been asked to go out to the club or bar? Same thing. WoW just so happens to be a game that I didn't find on my own. My friends were playing so I tried it and stuck around. I gave it up for a year+ to play other stuff, but returned recently. And I'm having a blast with my friends.
Hypocritically speaking tho, I DON"T PLAY MMO'S FOR THE COMPLEXITY. I rely on rpg's, shooters, pvp shooters, action games, chess, sports, flight sims, rts, for that type of game. I realize now that I'm talking about it here that I am more involved with MMO's due to the in game social element. What I mean by that is grouping to take on a task. Small, easy, large or hard isn't the point. For me.
I actually don't think WoW is any less complex than any other MMO I've played. The difference is every facet of gameplay is presented to you in small chunks at a time and in a way that's easy to understand.
Plopping a level one newbie in a big capitol city with three seperate zones is needlessly complicated. Forcing a new player to sift through 20-30 vendors before they find one that sells bags or food is not good game design. Making a level 4 player med for 5 minutes in between solo fights(which they barely win and will be unable to win at all in a few more levels) is a joke.
I think Blizzard looked at what makes other games, not necessarily MMOs, successful and applied that to WoW.
Hypocritically speaking tho, I DON"T PLAY MMO'S FOR THE COMPLEXITY. I rely on rpg's, shooters, pvp shooters, action games, chess, sports, flight sims, rts, for that type of game. I realize now that I'm talking about it here that I am more involved with MMO's due to the in game social element. What I mean by that is grouping to take on a task. Small, easy, large or hard isn't the point. For me.
Exactly, and that's the whole thing. Mediocrity is always more popular than exceptional.
1. Advertising (Brand Name): Blizzard has a much larger following in the game world, period. Nobody can contest that.
2. Hardware: EQ2 demands better hardware. Only those, especially back in 2004, that were serious about their gaming had top end rigs that could even handle EQ2. The majority of people in the world do not have very good systems. I'm a tech rep, and most people, if they even know what they have, have very low to low/moderate systems. And even a lot of people that have good systems don't keep very good care of them, and run like crap most of the time anyways. I know, I talk to 100's of them every day.
3. Difficulty: WoW is a very easy game. Level fast, easy mobs, and you're lead through the world like a dog on a chain. That's fine, that's what a lot of people need. Most people are dumb, and very unskilled, so having an easy game with easy mobs, easy gameplay, and easy endgame (though sometimes quite time-consuming), is perfect for a majority of people. A lot of people don't want to think, they just want to click a few buttons and be ubar just like everybody else.
I think it's funny that most people in this forum have a lot to say about games they've never played, especially the "intelligent" post about EQ2's 16 classes. I've played both, and they're both very good games. EQ2 is better, but for a lot more people it's just too difficult and they don't want to actually have to learn their classes and gameplay and how to actually work with others to gain the better things in the game. WoW is a good game, and yes, EQ2 has borrowed a couple things from them, and WoW has borrowed a lot of things from EQ2. It's great how WoW patches a year later are starting to look like EQ2 patches word for word, but that's fine. Everyone borrows the better ideas from other games, no big deal.
Some of my friends play EQ2 and some play WoW and we "talk shop" all the time. We don't get into the stupid arguments this forum is famous for. We just talk about something exciting we did, or new things we're getting, and enjoy some of the differences. Although my WoW friends are quite jealous of how EQ2 has a lot more features available to us, like housing, and character customization, and how my character has a LOT more choices in paths of gameplay, but WoW is starting to patch some things in, and someday maybe they'll catch up.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I think it's funny that most people in this forum have a lot to say about games they've never played. WoW is a good game, and yes, EQ2 has borrowed a couple things from them, and WoW has borrowed a lot of things from EQ2. It's great how WoW patches a year later are starting to look like EQ2 patches word for word, but that's fine. Everyone borrows the better ideas from other games, no big deal. Some of my friends play EQ2 and some play WoW and we "talk shop" all the time. We don't get into the stupid arguments this forum is famous for. We just talk about something exciting we did, or new things we're getting, and enjoy some of the differences. Although my WoW friends are quite jealous of how EQ2 has a lot more features available to us, like housing, and character customization, and how my character has a LOT more choices in paths of gameplay, but WoW is starting to patch some things in, and someday maybe they'll catch up.
I think for one that ridicule others about what they know and don't know, and talk about others "stupid arguments" you really need to do a fact check first before you speak. As has been said, EQ II developers after release said themselves they played WoW a LOT, and "they could see what they should have done differently". After that followed a year of heavy patchng with a vast majority of the changes directly borrowed from or heavilly influenced from WoW and its mechanics, mechanics that were not standard before that. Nowhere has WoW been forced or had the need to borrow anything from EQ II, since EQ II since the beginning was the simpler system with less sollutions to MMO problematics. If you have not been an EQ II player since beta 2, or heck, open beta, or if you were, but have by some magical means forgotten exactly how stripped down the EQ II machine was before the talent additions, the race talent points addition, the class modifications, heck your way of speaking about EQ II makes me wonder if you even were there for the levelbased class progression tree.
I am not on anybodys side between two or three modern MMOs, I played the old ones, the real MMOs and consider all modern MMOs shallow clones, like a big grey mush, making me extremly neutral in this discussion. But dont come dragging with your own madeup facts and strut them around as truths, if you don't know the reality behind it. Wow has not and probably wont ever borrow anyhting from EQ II; they have not needed to since the most additions in EQ II are straight from their own game. Wow have nothing to catch up to, EQ II developers themselves have been extremly open and honest about what has influended their patches and nerw content, and where they have gotten their insipration. If the developers themselves can be honest about it, why do you followers feel the need to lie?
Stick to the truth, please..... you make your own game look bad.
I think it's funny that most people in this forum have a lot to say about games they've never played. WoW is a good game, and yes, EQ2 has borrowed a couple things from them, and WoW has borrowed a lot of things from EQ2. It's great how WoW patches a year later are starting to look like EQ2 patches word for word, but that's fine. Everyone borrows the better ideas from other games, no big deal. Some of my friends play EQ2 and some play WoW and we "talk shop" all the time. We don't get into the stupid arguments this forum is famous for. We just talk about something exciting we did, or new things we're getting, and enjoy some of the differences. Although my WoW friends are quite jealous of how EQ2 has a lot more features available to us, like housing, and character customization, and how my character has a LOT more choices in paths of gameplay, but WoW is starting to patch some things in, and someday maybe they'll catch up.
I think for one that ridicule others about what they know and don't know, and talk about others "stupid arguments" you really need to do a fact check first before you speak. As has been said, EQ II developers after release said themselves they played WoW a LOT, and "they could see what they should have done differently". After that followed a year of heavy patchng with a vast majority of the changes directly borrowed from or heavilly influenced from WoW and its mechanics, mechanics that were not standard before that. Nowhere has WoW been forced or had the need to borrow anything from EQ II, since EQ II since the beginning was the simpler system with less sollutions to MMO problematics. If you have not been an EQ II player since beta 2, or heck, open beta, or if you were, but have by some magical means forgotten exactly how stripped down the EQ II machine was before the talent additions, the race talent points addition, the class modifications, heck your way of speaking about EQ II makes me wonder if you even were there for the levelbased class progression tree.
I am not on anybodys side between two or three modern MMOs, I played the old ones, the real MMOs and consider all modern MMOs shallow clones, like a big grey mush, making me extremly neutral in this discussion. But dont come dragging with your own madeup facts and strut them around as truths, if you don't know the reality behind it. Wow has not and probably wont ever borrow anyhting from EQ II; they have not needed to since the most additions in EQ II are straight from their own game. Wow have nothing to catch up to, EQ II developers themselves have been extremly open and honest about what has influended their patches and nerw content, and where they have gotten their insipration. If the developers themselves can be honest about it, why do you followers feel the need to lie?
Stick to the truth, please..... you make your own game look bad.
Quoted for truth.
I've played EQ2 off and on since it's release. (Even did the GameSandbox contest) Just like I felt then, and now. The game just doesn't bring enough fun with it to me. Even with all the changes which have been quite good. I still feel like EQ2 doesn't have a soul yet. I've seen quite a few post in this thread, refering to EQ2 as being superior to WoW, I just don't feel it though. EQ2 to me is fun in moderation, but the game just doesn't have the the fun factor that I thought it would originally have being EQ1's successor. Is it fun? Yeah. If I had to choose between playing WoW or EQ2, which would I pick? Most definitely World of Warcraft. It may have more classes, and the whole customization thing (which I still find pretty pointless, I can't remember the last time I've looked at my characters face except for screen shots that are close up.), but it the end I just simply don't get as much enjoyment out of playing EQ2 as I did WoW. As far as animations goes, WoW has EQ2 beat hands down.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
im an avid WoW lover but im sorry if you think WoW's animations can even compare to EQ2 your either blind or from another planet. If there is anything EQ2 has on WoW that would be it..
im an avid WoW lover but im sorry if you think WoW's animations can even compare to EQ2 your either blind or from another planet. If there is anything EQ2 has on WoW that would be it..
Bouth games are good, wow had breaktrough and maybe blizzard learned on EQ mistakes so they could release better game. If you take all best things from all games listed on this forum and make game im sure you would have 9mil players too.
--------------------> Would you like some cheese with that whine?
I think for one that ridicule others about what they know and don't know, and talk about others "stupid arguments" you really need to do a fact check first before you speak. As has been said, EQ II developers after release said themselves they played WoW a LOT, and "they could see what they should have done differently". After that followed a year of heavy patchng with a vast majority of the changes directly borrowed from or heavilly influenced from WoW and its mechanics, mechanics that were not standard before that. Nowhere has WoW been forced or had the need to borrow anything from EQ II, since EQ II since the beginning was the simpler system with less sollutions to MMO problematics. If you have not been an EQ II player since beta 2, or heck, open beta, or if you were, but have by some magical means forgotten exactly how stripped down the EQ II machine was before the talent additions, the race talent points addition, the class modifications, heck your way of speaking about EQ II makes me wonder if you even were there for the levelbased class progression tree. I am not on anybodys side between two or three modern MMOs, I played the old ones, the real MMOs and consider all modern MMOs shallow clones, like a big grey mush, making me extremly neutral in this discussion. But dont come dragging with your own madeup facts and strut them around as truths, if you don't know the reality behind it. Wow has not and probably wont ever borrow anyhting from EQ II; they have not needed to since the most additions in EQ II are straight from their own game. Wow have nothing to catch up to, EQ II developers themselves have been extremly open and honest about what has influended their patches and nerw content, and where they have gotten their insipration. If the developers themselves can be honest about it, why do you followers feel the need to lie? Stick to the truth, please..... you make your own game look bad.
Your empty threats really put fear into my heart Mr. Facts poster... Oh wait, you didn't post any... Maybe I can help since you are too lazy, and just want to spout your crap. For being neutral in this discussion Mr. Fanboi, you certainly take the high road here.
You can easily look up how long I've played and since you are too lazy to do so:
Why the sluggish start? Up against the firestorm that is World of Warcraft, and by Hartsman's own admission laboring under a flawed vision of who would be playing the game, EverQuest II struggled in its first year of live service following its November 2004 launch. Since then, under the direction of Hartsman and people like now-departed lead designer Jason Roberts, the game has fundamentally changed in an effort to recapture the enthusiasm of past and current EverQuest players.
BTW, this is the ONLY mention of WoW in the entire interview. "recapture the enthusiasm of past and current EVERQUEST players." Not WoW players. Another snippet:
For various reasons, the design standpoint when the game was first created was "we can't steal from EverQuest". The game's goal was to move as far away from EQ as they could, to attract new players while leaving the EQ player base more-or-less intact. That resulted in, essentially, a generic fantasy MMOG with some very strange design decisions.
Scott Hartsman is bullish on the title as it currently stands: "If I didn't think that EverQuest II was worth working on, I wouldn't be working on the game, bluntly. I'm one of those people who needs to be truly into what it is that he's doing. I wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't. This game, when it launched, did not have a lot of things that would be required to pull in a sufficient EverQuest-friendly audience. It has in the last three years become that game."
Hmmm, not WoW-friendly, EVERQUEST friendly.
EQ2 has from WoW:
Quest icons and rewards
Higher fantasy art direction
Higher solo-ability
Here is the post for LU13. If you would like me to explain the changes, I would love to explain the mechanics of combat in EQ2. If you think combat changes were "influenced by WoW", it truly would tell me how little you know about these games.
Here's some things WoW took from EQ2: (As we know they stole everything from EQ. There is nothing new or revolutionary in WoW)
The Burning Crusade:
25 man raids
Selectable Dungeon Difficulty Setting
A new profession: Jewelcrafting
The Wrath of the Lich King:
Learn the craft of spell augmentation with the new Inscription profession.
Transform your hero's look with new character-customization options, including new hairstyles and dances.
Future (unkown)
Housing: It sounds like Blizzard is trying to figure out if they can make it work. It confirmed that they are very interested in making both Housing and Guild Halls a reality. This will be a future live patch, and will most likely be a instanced Neighborhood within major cities. It seems they might not be able to include this in the expansion.
Guild Banks
Past patches:
Useful Ranged Slot for 3 Classes - Paladins, Shamanand Druids now have 'Relics' to place in their ranged slots that give them class bonuses to certain spells/abilites.
11C Account splitting [1.11]
11E Character Transfers [1.11]
6H More Casual End-game Content [2.0]
Read in-game mail will now be kept for thirty days instead of three.
Heroic difficulty instances end bosses will now always drop an epic item, in addition all bosses in Heroic difficulty instances will have a chance to drop an epic gem!
And there's much more, but it's late and I'm tired of doing your legwork for ya. This stuff is accessible to anyone that knows how to use a search...
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
EQ2 doesn't have 300.000 players. I suggest that you buy some smelling salt because you need it to wake up from your delusions. EQ2 has got the amount of players that it deserves, launced with a zillion bugs and all. And... if you are so hot on EQ2 why do you state that you are currently playing Guild Wars with no mention of EQ2 whatsoever? Crafting is shite in EQ2, it must be the only game were you can actually die from trying to craft a weapon or a piece of armor, I kid you not.
Something else changed over a year ago, almost 2. If you don't know, don't post about it.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
Comments
WoW is successful for lots of reasons, it is true the battle.net is an aspect of this. But at the same time it is also true it is a highly rated game.
Well, as i said before you cant really talk about who likes what...i dont care much what people write here about wow cause they got disapointed in some way. Was it before they couldnt get "into" game, or they want some other aspect of game (PvP).
WoW become popular because it came in right moment and it was available to all. It is game for kids who are 10years old to oldies who are 60 years old. It is "cartoony" and "romantic" game where you choose to paly cute warrior girl who will fight fire elemental with other 39 people arround her. From very moment you started to play you got big map to discover, tons of quests, tons of diferent mobs, tons of diferent armor etc etc.
Game maybe have poor graphic, but its designed too good, and that uber design shades bad graphics. and not only that, because of "cartoony" graphics and really good engine/code you can play wow on every machine. I was playing it on my thinkpad T3x something with 1.8 proc, and 128 mb ram and 16mb GFX card Ati 7100 (if i remember right). What other game can you play on this machine?!? none i think.
Realism and fact is that none of incoming games will hurt WoW, no mather how much bad reviews do you trolls post, no mather how much you flame on this forum about how crappy game is. Im sorry but Warhammer wont do it, Conan wont do it...Tabula Rasa wont do it. For some time wow will have constant of 8 mil accounts, if not more (new players, new content etc). If any of those named games get playerbase of 1 milion they can be happy, but i really really doubt it.
WOW WILL STAY ON FIRST PLACE FOR LONG LONG LONG TIME, I KNOW YOU DONT LIKE IT...AND YOU CANT DO NOTHING ABOUT IT
(except to whine here on this forum...or if you go and buy Conan or Warhammer for everyone you know...hehehe)
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Would you like some cheese with that whine?
In fact, EQ II was a complete mess at release, demands too high, the character development too shallow, the content too twodimensional. The developers of EQ II said themselves, after release that they were themselves playing WoW and they coudl see how they should have made things differently. After TONS of patching, TONS upon tons of patching, with additions to the game mostly borrowed or inspired from WoW (you know, the game you hate so much, but the EQ II devs themselves like?), it finally turned into the quality product it is today, and finally recieved its reward, longlasting player commitment and a solid playerbase.
So.. Maybe dont bash the reason EQ II have risen from the ashes... The WoW you find so subpar.. is the reason EQ II is as good as it is today. Me and many others from closed beta and forward really wondered what could save EQ II from a disaster.. WoW was it.
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Anatomy of a Fanboi
This is you.
well i guess blizz was smart enough to learn on others mistakes, so thats why they released wow polished (more or less)
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Would you like some cheese with that whine?
WoW is better because girls play it, so do you realy wanna say that girls are stupid, ignorant, immature or whatever you use to feed your hate!?
I think that EQ2 is a very good game. It's just that WoW is better over all. Especially with the way the world is made, it's a true work of art. EQ2 is a patchwork quilt of a world with poor art direction. Like someone else said, once you've become accustomed to a seamless world, zoning becomes a huge immersion breaker.
Hellfire Peninsula = best zone ever.
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
EQ2 is a really decent game. It's a shame it had to start off so rough, it almost seems like it should have blown up as big as WoW did. But WoW is WoW. It, in my personal opinion, the best MMo at this moment and for moments to come. It's sleek, smooth, and exciting. It also has a bunch of great players in it, but since you have 9 million people playing, your going to have you lemons. . .every game has them. I remember those players from way back in UO. It's just something you have to deal with. I do look forward to WAR, but in all honesty I don't think it will compare to WoW in numbers and fun factor. I have been hearing many mixed reviews from some insiders about WAR and it's combat. . .but that is for me to keep.
WoW is the game at this moment. And it will be for a long time. And when WoW starts to die off, Blizzard will probably introduce another MMO (which they said they will create another one day) and dominate again. Just because it's Blizzard people. Starcraft? Diablo? Warcraft? All superior games.
Total time played: 9125 Days, 21 Hours, 29 Minutes, 27 Seconds
Time played this level: 39 Days, 1 Hour, 24 Minutes, 5 Seconds
You obviously did not think about the question before you asked.
SOE published EQII before it was ready just to beat Wow out the door by a week or two. Very bad decision, many tried it and recieved very negative vibes about the game.
While it has nice graphics, the computer requirements were far to high for most players when it came out.
It took SOE about a year to get the game into the state it is in now.
Now when people get the game there are very few people in the low level areas, hence they don't stay long.
No question EQ2 is a better game, just that no one wants to level by themselves.
Weather EQ2 is a better game or not right now is a personal opinion. Personally I've tried it at release and I've gone back and tried it recently. I didn't try out the new newbie areas which I hear are great, but went back to the old starting area of freeport. It's still a horrible place. No matter where you start in WoW it's fun to play. Freeport should just be removed from the game. As noted by a few people the animations are all nearly the same and are very stiff and awkward feeling when moving around. The characters look like they are running around with something stuck up their butt. I still don't enjoy the combat style. The UI is unappealing to me. Everything is nearly perfectly rectangle and I don't like the choice of colors. I know you can customize this, but why should you have to? The whole clicking on the heroic button to get a more powerful attack just doesn't do anything for me. I don't really understand why it's in the game at all. There are some interesting quests here and there, but it's hard to find interesting ones. Overall it's an okay game, but I can see why WoW is more appealing to others.
Yeah I mean that's one of the big problems when you try to make your game realistic. Memory limitations means that all the races in EQ2 have exactly the same animations. They walk the same, they fight the same, they dance the same. It's as if all the races are just humans in a costume or with green skin paint.
In WoW, undead move like zombies, orcs move like orcs, and Blood Elves dance like Napolean Dynamite. You just can't beat that
Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...
Ye, its tons and tons of details...How character move, walk, sit, ride, shot, dance, eat...how surroundings react on him...when you enter ironforge its not copy/paste of same characters (alltho character customisation is crap).
All land look different, crap graphics but uber design...
That was problem when i entered every other game including LOTRO...first thing i notice (and it makes me sick from start) is bad character movement...maybe its because all WoW is cartoony...so cartoony character esay blend with cartoony background and suroundings...but in every other game where devs want to show "realism" it ends up strange and un natural...like Anarchy online...character movement there is like Michael Jackson moonwalking all the time...
And i know its not important but i cant or i have trouble connect with those games...i
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Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Yes, I'd agree with your comments about "realistic" graphics vs. cartoony ones. I think a bunch of characters with the same basic body types running around like they have broomsticks up their behinds breaks immersion for me much more than cartoony looking graphics. This is not a specific stab at EQ2. I just think game engines have not reached the point yet where they can make "realistic" character animations look 100% believable. This wouldn't stop me from playing a game, but when we're looking at two games with pretty similar play styles and leveling systems, I'd tend to go for the cartoonier of the two.
EH, red flag on the botters thing. Um, most MMO's who have gold have GOLD FARMING BOTS. So, if WoW has a particular percentage of bots to the player base, equate that ratio to EQ2 or any other MMO out there.
Hmm, What's so funny to me is that Blizzard is the rookie team in the MMO world. All these other companies have developed or sponsored a plethora of projects in this genre and still can't get it right. They get depth but other stuff suffers.
I'm sure Blizzard will take into account all the hate they receive if they choose to make a second MMO( of which can be on any of their franchises).
My opinion is this, no matter which way you slice it....WoW is a pretty good game. It does what they were aiming for. Playability through many different age groups and skill lvls. Even though some like complexity more often than not doesn't mean some 11 yr old out there does.
My fun in any MMO is grouping, so most are fun to me.
To the person who said something to the effect that true gamers passed on wow and/or don't continue to play is just talking out your butt. True Gamers play anything imo. Even crappy games. Why do I think this way? Well I equate my own player habits and wants to every self proclaimed "GAMER", which is as follows: I want to experience every game and every story in those games ever made. I want to compete in every game that has a pvp kinda mode. The problem I face is just a matter of time and money. If this weren't an issue I would tackle every game ever created. Easy or Hard. Boring or Involved.
*NOTE* I also don't think skill in any game makes you a hard core gamer. I think time dedication to this hobby makes you a hardcore gamer.
Tomatoes or to(e) ma toes. I wasn't bored by WoW.
I don't consider myself a follower but I just so happen to follow sometimes. So I play a game that my friends play? Big deal. Have you ever gone to a party that your friends were going to and you didn't know who's house it was? Have you ever been asked to go out to the club or bar? Same thing. WoW just so happens to be a game that I didn't find on my own. My friends were playing so I tried it and stuck around. I gave it up for a year+ to play other stuff, but returned recently. And I'm having a blast with my friends.
Hypocritically speaking tho, I DON"T PLAY MMO'S FOR THE COMPLEXITY. I rely on rpg's, shooters, pvp shooters, action games, chess, sports, flight sims, rts, for that type of game. I realize now that I'm talking about it here that I am more involved with MMO's due to the in game social element. What I mean by that is grouping to take on a task. Small, easy, large or hard isn't the point. For me.
I actually don't think WoW is any less complex than any other MMO I've played. The difference is every facet of gameplay is presented to you in small chunks at a time and in a way that's easy to understand.
Plopping a level one newbie in a big capitol city with three seperate zones is needlessly complicated. Forcing a new player to sift through 20-30 vendors before they find one that sells bags or food is not good game design. Making a level 4 player med for 5 minutes in between solo fights(which they barely win and will be unable to win at all in a few more levels) is a joke.
I think Blizzard looked at what makes other games, not necessarily MMOs, successful and applied that to WoW.
My youtube MMO gaming channel
Exactly, and that's the whole thing. Mediocrity is always more popular than exceptional.
1. Advertising (Brand Name): Blizzard has a much larger following in the game world, period. Nobody can contest that.
2. Hardware: EQ2 demands better hardware. Only those, especially back in 2004, that were serious about their gaming had top end rigs that could even handle EQ2. The majority of people in the world do not have very good systems. I'm a tech rep, and most people, if they even know what they have, have very low to low/moderate systems. And even a lot of people that have good systems don't keep very good care of them, and run like crap most of the time anyways. I know, I talk to 100's of them every day.
3. Difficulty: WoW is a very easy game. Level fast, easy mobs, and you're lead through the world like a dog on a chain. That's fine, that's what a lot of people need. Most people are dumb, and very unskilled, so having an easy game with easy mobs, easy gameplay, and easy endgame (though sometimes quite time-consuming), is perfect for a majority of people. A lot of people don't want to think, they just want to click a few buttons and be ubar just like everybody else.
I think it's funny that most people in this forum have a lot to say about games they've never played, especially the "intelligent" post about EQ2's 16 classes.
I've played both, and they're both very good games. EQ2 is better, but for a lot more people it's just too difficult and they don't want to actually have to learn their classes and gameplay and how to actually work with others to gain the better things in the game. WoW is a good game, and yes, EQ2 has borrowed a couple things from them, and WoW has borrowed a lot of things from EQ2. It's great how WoW patches a year later are starting to look like EQ2 patches word for word, but that's fine. Everyone borrows the better ideas from other games, no big deal.
Some of my friends play EQ2 and some play WoW and we "talk shop" all the time. We don't get into the stupid arguments this forum is famous for. We just talk about something exciting we did, or new things we're getting, and enjoy some of the differences. Although my WoW friends are quite jealous of how EQ2 has a lot more features available to us, like housing, and character customization, and how my character has a LOT more choices in paths of gameplay, but WoW is starting to patch some things in, and someday maybe they'll catch up.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
I think for one that ridicule others about what they know and don't know, and talk about others "stupid arguments" you really need to do a fact check first before you speak. As has been said, EQ II developers after release said themselves they played WoW a LOT, and "they could see what they should have done differently". After that followed a year of heavy patchng with a vast majority of the changes directly borrowed from or heavilly influenced from WoW and its mechanics, mechanics that were not standard before that. Nowhere has WoW been forced or had the need to borrow anything from EQ II, since EQ II since the beginning was the simpler system with less sollutions to MMO problematics. If you have not been an EQ II player since beta 2, or heck, open beta, or if you were, but have by some magical means forgotten exactly how stripped down the EQ II machine was before the talent additions, the race talent points addition, the class modifications, heck your way of speaking about EQ II makes me wonder if you even were there for the levelbased class progression tree.
I am not on anybodys side between two or three modern MMOs, I played the old ones, the real MMOs and consider all modern MMOs shallow clones, like a big grey mush, making me extremly neutral in this discussion. But dont come dragging with your own madeup facts and strut them around as truths, if you don't know the reality behind it. Wow has not and probably wont ever borrow anyhting from EQ II; they have not needed to since the most additions in EQ II are straight from their own game. Wow have nothing to catch up to, EQ II developers themselves have been extremly open and honest about what has influended their patches and nerw content, and where they have gotten their insipration. If the developers themselves can be honest about it, why do you followers feel the need to lie?
Stick to the truth, please..... you make your own game look bad.
___________________________________________________
Anatomy of a Fanboi
This is you.
I tell you straight out EQII isn't more fun than WOW. What's ironic is that EQII is the superior title in almost every aspect except fun....
In the end though fun factor is what brings you back fun is what keeps you paying those subscription rates..
Dutchess Zarraa Voltayre
Reborn/Zero Sum/Ancient Legacy/Jagged Legion/Feared/Nuke & Pave.
I think for one that ridicule others about what they know and don't know, and talk about others "stupid arguments" you really need to do a fact check first before you speak. As has been said, EQ II developers after release said themselves they played WoW a LOT, and "they could see what they should have done differently". After that followed a year of heavy patchng with a vast majority of the changes directly borrowed from or heavilly influenced from WoW and its mechanics, mechanics that were not standard before that. Nowhere has WoW been forced or had the need to borrow anything from EQ II, since EQ II since the beginning was the simpler system with less sollutions to MMO problematics. If you have not been an EQ II player since beta 2, or heck, open beta, or if you were, but have by some magical means forgotten exactly how stripped down the EQ II machine was before the talent additions, the race talent points addition, the class modifications, heck your way of speaking about EQ II makes me wonder if you even were there for the levelbased class progression tree.
I am not on anybodys side between two or three modern MMOs, I played the old ones, the real MMOs and consider all modern MMOs shallow clones, like a big grey mush, making me extremly neutral in this discussion. But dont come dragging with your own madeup facts and strut them around as truths, if you don't know the reality behind it. Wow has not and probably wont ever borrow anyhting from EQ II; they have not needed to since the most additions in EQ II are straight from their own game. Wow have nothing to catch up to, EQ II developers themselves have been extremly open and honest about what has influended their patches and nerw content, and where they have gotten their insipration. If the developers themselves can be honest about it, why do you followers feel the need to lie?
Stick to the truth, please..... you make your own game look bad.
Quoted for truth.
I've played EQ2 off and on since it's release. (Even did the GameSandbox contest) Just like I felt then, and now. The game just doesn't bring enough fun with it to me. Even with all the changes which have been quite good. I still feel like EQ2 doesn't have a soul yet. I've seen quite a few post in this thread, refering to EQ2 as being superior to WoW, I just don't feel it though. EQ2 to me is fun in moderation, but the game just doesn't have the the fun factor that I thought it would originally have being EQ1's successor. Is it fun? Yeah. If I had to choose between playing WoW or EQ2, which would I pick? Most definitely World of Warcraft. It may have more classes, and the whole customization thing (which I still find pretty pointless, I can't remember the last time I've looked at my characters face except for screen shots that are close up.), but it the end I just simply don't get as much enjoyment out of playing EQ2 as I did WoW. As far as animations goes, WoW has EQ2 beat hands down.
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
im an avid WoW lover but im sorry if you think WoW's animations can even compare to EQ2 your either blind or from another planet. If there is anything EQ2 has on WoW that would be it..
Bouth games are good, wow had breaktrough and maybe blizzard learned on EQ mistakes so they could release better game. If you take all best things from all games listed on this forum and make game im sure you would have 9mil players too.
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Would you like some cheese with that whine?
EQ2 doesn't have 300.000 players.
I suggest that you buy some smelling salt because you need it to wake up from your delusions.
EQ2 has got the amount of players that it deserves, launced with a zillion bugs and all.
And... if you are so hot on EQ2 why do you state that you are currently playing Guild Wars with no mention of EQ2 whatsoever?
Crafting is shite in EQ2, it must be the only game were you can actually die from trying to craft a weapon or a piece of armor, I kid you not.
Your empty threats really put fear into my heart Mr. Facts poster... Oh wait, you didn't post any... Maybe I can help since you are too lazy, and just want to spout your crap. For being neutral in this discussion Mr. Fanboi, you certainly take the high road here.
You can easily look up how long I've played and since you are too lazy to do so:
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=14016
Here are some snippets:
Why the sluggish start? Up against the firestorm that is World of Warcraft, and by Hartsman's own admission laboring under a flawed vision of who would be playing the game, EverQuest II struggled in its first year of live service following its November 2004 launch. Since then, under the direction of Hartsman and people like now-departed lead designer Jason Roberts, the game has fundamentally changed in an effort to recapture the enthusiasm of past and current EverQuest players.
BTW, this is the ONLY mention of WoW in the entire interview. "recapture the enthusiasm of past and current EVERQUEST players." Not WoW players. Another snippet:
For various reasons, the design standpoint when the game was first created was "we can't steal from EverQuest". The game's goal was to move as far away from EQ as they could, to attract new players while leaving the EQ player base more-or-less intact. That resulted in, essentially, a generic fantasy MMOG with some very strange design decisions.
Scott Hartsman is bullish on the title as it currently stands: "If I didn't think that EverQuest II was worth working on, I wouldn't be working on the game, bluntly. I'm one of those people who needs to be truly into what it is that he's doing. I wouldn't be doing this if I wasn't. This game, when it launched, did not have a lot of things that would be required to pull in a sufficient EverQuest-friendly audience. It has in the last three years become that game."
Hmmm, not WoW-friendly, EVERQUEST friendly.
EQ2 has from WoW:
Quest icons and rewards
Higher fantasy art direction
Higher solo-ability
Here is the post for LU13. If you would like me to explain the changes, I would love to explain the mechanics of combat in EQ2. If you think combat changes were "influenced by WoW", it truly would tell me how little you know about these games.
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?topic_id=253002
Here's some things WoW took from EQ2: (As we know they stole everything from EQ. There is nothing new or revolutionary in WoW)
The Burning Crusade:
25 man raids
Selectable Dungeon Difficulty Setting
A new profession: Jewelcrafting
The Wrath of the Lich King:
Learn the craft of spell augmentation with the new Inscription profession.
Transform your hero's look with new character-customization options, including new hairstyles and dances.
Future (unkown)
Housing: It sounds like Blizzard is trying to figure out if they can make it work. It confirmed that they are very interested in making both Housing and Guild Halls a reality. This will be a future live patch, and will most likely be a instanced Neighborhood within major cities. It seems they might not be able to include this in the expansion.
Guild Banks
Past patches:
Useful Ranged Slot for 3 Classes - Paladins, Shamanand Druids now have 'Relics' to place in their ranged slots that give them class bonuses to certain spells/abilites.
11C Account splitting [1.11]
11E Character Transfers [1.11]
6H More Casual End-game Content [2.0]
Read in-game mail will now be kept for thirty days instead of three.
Heroic difficulty instances end bosses will now always drop an epic item, in addition all bosses in Heroic difficulty instances will have a chance to drop an epic gem!
And there's much more, but it's late and I'm tired of doing your legwork for ya. This stuff is accessible to anyone that knows how to use a search...
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."
Something else changed over a year ago, almost 2. If you don't know, don't post about it.
"Granted thinking for yourself could be considered a timesink of shorter or longer duration depending on how smart..or how dumb you are."