Well no one has to prove it is vaporware because it has already met the standards for vaporware, what you have to do is prove it is not. A bunch of vague statements on a website that could or could not indicate progress is NOT proof. What we need is some substance from these devs, showing it at shows, even letting Warcry take a peek at it. Neither has come close to happening. The most important thing in this arena is publicity for your game. They have not shown one iota of interest in that so far which leads me to believe they still do not have a working product. So until someone veritifiable from the outside world has seen the working game in action and documented it, this game wil continue to be the king of vaporware. I was browsing the other day and came on a site with MMO terminology defined, included in the definition of vaporware was Darkfall. It has become that renowned.
Tell me these standards of vaporware. No but the whole name being copyrighted is more than enough to disprove any vaporware claim.
Many people already know about DF as you have stated. Also just opening their close beta and from there all their publicity can come through word of mouth so no they dont need huge banners everywhere saying "CBT coming soon".
People have seen them work on it and we have a leaked video is that not enough proof for you though?
Well I can make an site and put AoC and WAR on the vaporware list but does that make it anymore true?
well lets not put the horse before the cart there bub.lets just wait til beta comes out....
What a no-mark either add some value, what are you trying to contribue here? Is it the I'm a looser so I will diss on people who are doing nothing but try ...
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Well no one has to prove it is vaporware because it has already met the standards for vaporware, what you have to do is prove it is not. A bunch of vague statements on a website that could or could not indicate progress is NOT proof. What we need is some substance from these devs, showing it at shows, even letting Warcry take a peek at it. Neither has come close to happening. The most important thing in this arena is publicity for your game. They have not shown one iota of interest in that so far which leads me to believe they still do not have a working product. So until someone veritifiable from the outside world has seen the working game in action and documented it, this game wil continue to be the king of vaporware. I was browsing the other day and came on a site with MMO terminology defined, included in the definition of vaporware was Darkfall. It has become that renowned.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Well no one has to prove it is vaporware because it has already met the standards for vaporware, what you have to do is prove it is not. A bunch of vague statements on a website that could or could not indicate progress is NOT proof. What we need is some substance from these devs, showing it at shows, even letting Warcry take a peek at it. Neither has come close to happening. The most important thing in this arena is publicity for your game. They have not shown one iota of interest in that so far which leads me to believe they still do not have a working product. So until someone veritifiable from the outside world has seen the working game in action and documented it, this game wil continue to be the king of vaporware. I was browsing the other day and came on a site with MMO terminology defined, included in the definition of vaporware was Darkfall. It has become that renowned.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Well no one has to prove it is vaporware because it has already met the standards for vaporware, what you have to do is prove it is not. A bunch of vague statements on a website that could or could not indicate progress is NOT proof. What we need is some substance from these devs, showing it at shows, even letting Warcry take a peek at it. Neither has come close to happening. The most important thing in this arena is publicity for your game. They have not shown one iota of interest in that so far which leads me to believe they still do not have a working product. So until someone veritifiable from the outside world has seen the working game in action and documented it, this game wil continue to be the king of vaporware. I was browsing the other day and came on a site with MMO terminology defined, included in the definition of vaporware was Darkfall. It has become that renowned.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
That is the only thing that is needed to be shown to refute almost every claim to vaporware.
Well no one has to prove it is vaporware because it has already met the standards for vaporware, what you have to do is prove it is not. A bunch of vague statements on a website that could or could not indicate progress is NOT proof. What we need is some substance from these devs, showing it at shows, even letting Warcry take a peek at it. Neither has come close to happening. The most important thing in this arena is publicity for your game. They have not shown one iota of interest in that so far which leads me to believe they still do not have a working product. So until someone veritifiable from the outside world has seen the working game in action and documented it, this game wil continue to be the king of vaporware. I was browsing the other day and came on a site with MMO terminology defined, included in the definition of vaporware was Darkfall. It has become that renowned.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Well I'm glad you agree with me, before I agreed with you. As far as the bottom line goes I disagree. lets hope it isn't. The history aspect here is difficult you may have learnt from it.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
except the devs are completly diffrent from that other gamei never heard of whate ver im almsot done arguing until it goes ot beta then ill make 1 big post saying i told you so to bad they are goign to go beta very soon
Well no one has to prove it is vaporware because it has already met the standards for vaporware, what you have to do is prove it is not. A bunch of vague statements on a website that could or could not indicate progress is NOT proof. What we need is some substance from these devs, showing it at shows, even letting Warcry take a peek at it. Neither has come close to happening. The most important thing in this arena is publicity for your game. They have not shown one iota of interest in that so far which leads me to believe they still do not have a working product. So until someone veritifiable from the outside world has seen the working game in action and documented it, this game wil continue to be the king of vaporware. I was browsing the other day and came on a site with MMO terminology defined, included in the definition of vaporware was Darkfall. It has become that renowned.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
That is the only thing that is needed to be shown to refute almost every claim to vaporware.
Well, for one, having a trademark has little to do with a product being vapourware or not. Vapourware is not just about existence, after all, but about implementation and duration, too. But, you think this trademark thing is something? Well, here:
It is not hard to get a trademark. They have not had to prove they have a product, just have had to prove they have mark associated with some product of theirs, and that is unique and they own it. This is different.
They have trademarked the bloody name "Darkfall." That is it. Whoopdee-doo.
So, they have proved that they intend to market the game as Darkfall in the U.S. That is all this link shows, and I am not impressed.
Well no one has to prove it is vaporware because it has already met the standards for vaporware, what you have to do is prove it is not. A bunch of vague statements on a website that could or could not indicate progress is NOT proof. What we need is some substance from these devs, showing it at shows, even letting Warcry take a peek at it. Neither has come close to happening. The most important thing in this arena is publicity for your game. They have not shown one iota of interest in that so far which leads me to believe they still do not have a working product. So until someone veritifiable from the outside world has seen the working game in action and documented it, this game wil continue to be the king of vaporware. I was browsing the other day and came on a site with MMO terminology defined, included in the definition of vaporware was Darkfall. It has become that renowned.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
That is the only thing that is needed to be shown to refute almost every claim to vaporware.
Well, for one, having a trademark has little to do with a product being vapourware or not. Vapourware is not just about existence, after all, but about implementation and duration, too. But, you think this trademark thing is something? Well, here:
It is not hard to get a trademark. They have not had to prove they have a product, just have had to prove they have mark associated with some product of theirs, and that is unique and they own it. This is different.
They have trademarked the bloody name "Darkfall." That is it. Whoopdee-doo.
So, they have proved that they intend to market the game as Darkfall in the U.S. That is all this link shows, and I am not impressed.
I'm going with what most people assume vaporware is but I could just as easily claim that AoC is vaporware from that definition.
What exactly has that site proven? It only shows what is needed in order for the application to be able go through processing and if it doesnt fill those requirements than its sent back.
I'm going with what most people assume vaporware is but I could just as easily claim that AoC is vaporware from that definition.
What exactly has that site proven? It only shows what is needed in order for the application to be able go through processing and if it doesnt fill those requirements than its sent back.
Questionable,
I'm in 100% agreement that AoC is vaporware; it's anything that hasn't gone gold. The software that is not yet in production, but the announced delivery date has long since passed.
There's nothing wrong with being vaporware. Even though the beta is available, or the game is playable by an elite few, until it's been pressed I still consider it vaporware.
When a game is said to have "gone gold," it means that the code has been finalized and is ready to be duplicated for distribution, that's when it's not vaporware.
Some games are vaporware longer than others (Duke Nukem Forever) others you've seen the gameplay and the almost finished product but it's still not Gold (Spore)
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
I'm going with what most people assume vaporware is but I could just as easily claim that AoC is vaporware from that definition.
What exactly has that site proven? It only shows what is needed in order for the application to be able go through processing and if it doesnt fill those requirements than its sent back.
Questionable,
I'm in 100% agreement that AoC is vaporware; it's anything that hasn't gone gold. The software that is not yet in production, but the announced delivery date has long since passed.
There's nothing wrong with being vaporware. Even though the beta is available, or the game is playable by an elite few, until it's been pressed I still consider it vaporware.
When a game is said to have "gone gold," it means that the code has been finalized and is ready to be duplicated for distribution, that's when it's not vaporware.
Some games are vaporware longer than others (Duke Nukem Forever) others you've seen the gameplay and the almost finished product but it's still not Gold (Spore)
While i wasnt trying to say AoC was vaporware i was just trying to make a point with him. Yes thats what most definitions of vaporware mean and no i dont find anything wrong wtih THAT definition. Most people when they say vaporware they mean the game does not exist at all.
why do i gotta be trolling?and no i dont think its okay AOC has been delayed 4 times. nor do i think it is fine that DF has been delayed as it has. cant i have a sensible discussion with someone on a topic i dont agree with?? isnt that the point of debates?
Well, you are here trying to debating about a game you are not willing to try out. You have nothing but opinions to argue your point of view. Give me some statistics, facts so we have something to debate.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
I'm going with what most people assume vaporware is but I could just as easily claim that AoC is vaporware from that definition.
What exactly has that site proven? It only shows what is needed in order for the application to be able go through processing and if it doesnt fill those requirements than its sent back.
I just wanted to say one thing here. While technically AoC fits the vaporware definition, people HAVE played it. It's shown at trade shows & magazines/websites have played the game, there are videos of the developers actually playing in the game world. Not to mention AoC actually has a publisher.
Now compare that to DF. No one outside of the developers have seen the game run on a computer. Who knows how old the screenshots or videos are that are posted on their website. We as consumers have no idea, because they've never showed the game anywhere.
So out of those two. I would say AoC has a much better chance of being released.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
why do i gotta be trolling?and no i dont think its okay AOC has been delayed 4 times. nor do i think it is fine that DF has been delayed as it has. cant i have a sensible discussion with someone on a topic i dont agree with?? isnt that the point of debates?
Well, you are here trying to debating about a game you are not willing to try out. You have nothing but opinions to argue your point of view. Give me some statistics, facts so we have something to debate.
the debate is not about me not willing to try it out. it would be one thing if there was actually a game to try out. but since there has yet to be a beta. i cant exactly have that choice now can i. nor can u or anyone in this forum. the debate isnt about trying out the game, the debate is abotu whether or not this game is ever going to be finished. and there is no direct evidence to show that is the in fact the case. until then, you can go on believing and hoping. your entitled to that.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
the debate is not about me not willing to try it out. it would be one thing if there was actually a game to try out. but since there has yet to be a beta. i cant exactly have that choice now can i. nor can u or anyone in this forum. the debate isnt about trying out the game, the debate is abotu whether or not this game is ever going to be finished. and there is no direct evidence to show that is the in fact the case. until then, you can go on believing and hoping. your entitled to that.
"Today (Friday) we have a new Darkfall version up, which is almost feature complete."- Dev Journal 13
It seems that they are continuously working on it so yes there is evidence that its going to be finished and from the way it seems quite soon.
Until the game is shown at trade shows (meaning people can play it live and not just these screenshots and videos) then the game is vaporware. Unfortunately for Darkfall they have been in development for too long to get the benefit of the doubt. UO2 and the other UO sequal had videos to show and screenshots. Heck they even had a publisher, but the game never launched.
To the guy that keeps saying that developement didn't start until 2003. That is just plain BS. It is an excuse to try and make the game sound like it hasn't been worked on for as long as it really has. Darkfall was listed on MMORPG.com back in 2002 already. The game was being worked on way before that.
As a prior poster stated Asheron's Call was created by 10 people in a house. AC1 is a huge seemless world. Which skill based dodging of attacks. A Skill advancement system and numerous other features that hadn't been seen in an MMO before. They did this and launched their game with no problems. Yet DF has had more time and more developers over the life spand of their development cycle and yet has less to show for it.
If DarkFall was really ready for Beta it would of been shown at the gaming convention in Germany. That is all the proof we need. The fact that it wasn't shown there means it is not ready to go into Beta.
Heck WAR, AoC, Hellgate London, and numerous other MMO games that hadn't started their Beta have been shown at numerous conventions. That fact alone shows what it means to be "Vaporware" and to be considered more substantial.
About the supposed loan they got. That doesn't mean anything. Do you know how a Loan even works? It wasn't 27 million worth of investment by some large company who needed proof that the game was going to work. They took out a loan. A Loan proves that the company has good enough credit and collateral to get a bank loan. That is it. A bank is not going to loan you money based on the potential revenue of a video game. They will loan you money based on your credit score or the value of the hard assets you own. That is how they were able to get that loan.
What else is Aventurine working on that would be able to pay off a 27 million dollar loan? It has to be payed back, and as far as I know, DF is all they have, ATM.
That could mean that Aventurine is putting alot of faith into DF.
and thats fine : ) it sbetter they callign them liers or they dont have crap and there making it up just cause they dont have a Pr guy and not showing every detail there is Like no other mmorpg has before beta
im just sayimg im pretty positive about beta starting this year for it
Comments
Many people already know about DF as you have stated. Also just opening their close beta and from there all their publicity can come through word of mouth so no they dont need huge banners everywhere saying "CBT coming soon".
People have seen them work on it and we have a leaked video is that not enough proof for you though?
Well I can make an site and put AoC and WAR on the vaporware list but does that make it anymore true?
What a no-mark either add some value, what are you trying to contribue here? Is it the I'm a looser so I will diss on people who are doing nothing but try ...
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Notice of Allowance:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78284269
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
That is the only thing that is needed to be shown to refute almost every claim to vaporware.
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Well I'm glad you agree with me, before I agreed with you. As far as the bottom line goes I disagree. lets hope it isn't. The history aspect here is difficult you may have learnt from it.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
except the devs are completly diffrent from that other gamei never heard of whate ver im almsot done arguing until it goes ot beta then ill make 1 big post saying i told you so to bad they are goign to go beta very soon
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Notice of Allowance:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78284269
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
That is the only thing that is needed to be shown to refute almost every claim to vaporware.
Well, for one, having a trademark has little to do with a product being vapourware or not. Vapourware is not just about existence, after all, but about implementation and duration, too. But, you think this trademark thing is something? Well, here:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/appcontent.htm#dep
It is not hard to get a trademark. They have not had to prove they have a product, just have had to prove they have mark associated with some product of theirs, and that is unique and they own it. This is different.
They have trademarked the bloody name "Darkfall." That is it. Whoopdee-doo.
So, they have proved that they intend to market the game as Darkfall in the U.S. That is all this link shows, and I am not impressed.
http://www.womengamers.com/interviews/darkfall.php
Innocent untill proven guilty. If you can't prove it's vaporrware then sadly you have nop case... it's LAW
And as Jean Sali says "Others just cry" you fall into that sad little category
Isane, in case you have not noticed, this is not a court of law and thus we do not follow its procedures. There is no voir dire, no habeas corpus, or any other legal nonsense, so why you seem so satisfied with your first comment is beyond me.
The definition of vapourware makes it impossible to prove something is vapourware, sadly. Unless the developer straight up says something about it, and none ever would, people will always say, "where is the proof?" The game could take 10 years and people would still say, "there is no proof!"
Consumers do not have access to such proof. The evidence (note that I did not say proof), is the lack of a release or beta after an extended amount of time, the lack of the press playing it so close to a supposed beta, the lack of its being at conventions in a somewhat working form, beta being delayed numerous times (4 years since the first announcement), and the lack of communication. Oh, and the lack of a bloody publisher is a biggie, too.
So, while I agree that in a strict sense no, no one can prove it is vapourware, that is taking the lame way out, when you ignore evidence that points to it as a strong possibility. But, Darkfall fans seem to prefer to bury their heads in the sand than face the reality that it might be vapourware - just might.
The fact that few even admit that as a possibility shows an amazing amount of obstinance or a zealous devotion of faith that makes Darkfall out to be the Second Coming.
So, people can claim there is no proof all day and night. And hey, the game may come out, and, though the possibility is slimmer, it might be what it claims to be; however, these are not certainties, and Darkfall and its team has done little to show why these are likely to occur.
Bottom line, in conventional gamer terms, this game does qualify as vapourware. This is not a legal definition, this is not about proof, this about history and what we have learnt from it, and history tells us this has the makings of vapour.
P.S. Apparently Duke Nukem Forever has always been in the stages of development and will be released, and they have released screenshots and information, too, yet it is still considered by the press and by gamers to be vapourware, and it has won lifetime achievement awards for it. This is no different from Darkfall - it fits the de facto definition perfectly.
Notice of Allowance:
http://tarr.uspto.gov/servlet/tarr?regser=serial&entry=78284269
Meaning they have the rights to use the word "Darkfall" in the US. They have to give proof of the product or it will be revoked. Meaning that this game isnt vaporware or this wouldnt be here.
That is the only thing that is needed to be shown to refute almost every claim to vaporware.
Well, for one, having a trademark has little to do with a product being vapourware or not. Vapourware is not just about existence, after all, but about implementation and duration, too. But, you think this trademark thing is something? Well, here:
http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac/doc/basic/appcontent.htm#dep
It is not hard to get a trademark. They have not had to prove they have a product, just have had to prove they have mark associated with some product of theirs, and that is unique and they own it. This is different.
They have trademarked the bloody name "Darkfall." That is it. Whoopdee-doo.
So, they have proved that they intend to market the game as Darkfall in the U.S. That is all this link shows, and I am not impressed.
I'm going with what most people assume vaporware is but I could just as easily claim that AoC is vaporware from that definition.
What exactly has that site proven? It only shows what is needed in order for the application to be able go through processing and if it doesnt fill those requirements than its sent back.
Questionable,
I'm in 100% agreement that AoC is vaporware; it's anything that hasn't gone gold. The software that is not yet in production, but the announced delivery date has long since passed.
There's nothing wrong with being vaporware. Even though the beta is available, or the game is playable by an elite few, until it's been pressed I still consider it vaporware.
When a game is said to have "gone gold," it means that the code has been finalized and is ready to be duplicated for distribution, that's when it's not vaporware.
Some games are vaporware longer than others (Duke Nukem Forever) others you've seen the gameplay and the almost finished product but it's still not Gold (Spore)
your arguement is so persuasive, so filled with knowledge and insight. You back up your argument very articulately, with suggestions of improvements and raising examples to glorify your position....oh wait, you didn't
Questionable,
I'm in 100% agreement that AoC is vaporware; it's anything that hasn't gone gold. The software that is not yet in production, but the announced delivery date has long since passed.
There's nothing wrong with being vaporware. Even though the beta is available, or the game is playable by an elite few, until it's been pressed I still consider it vaporware.
When a game is said to have "gone gold," it means that the code has been finalized and is ready to be duplicated for distribution, that's when it's not vaporware.
Some games are vaporware longer than others (Duke Nukem Forever) others you've seen the gameplay and the almost finished product but it's still not Gold (Spore)
While i wasnt trying to say AoC was vaporware i was just trying to make a point with him. Yes thats what most definitions of vaporware mean and no i dont find anything wrong wtih THAT definition. Most people when they say vaporware they mean the game does not exist at all.
Well, you are here trying to debating about a game you are not willing to try out. You have nothing but opinions to argue your point of view. Give me some statistics, facts so we have something to debate.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
I just wanted to say one thing here. While technically AoC fits the vaporware definition, people HAVE played it. It's shown at trade shows & magazines/websites have played the game, there are videos of the developers actually playing in the game world. Not to mention AoC actually has a publisher.
Now compare that to DF. No one outside of the developers have seen the game run on a computer. Who knows how old the screenshots or videos are that are posted on their website. We as consumers have no idea, because they've never showed the game anywhere.
So out of those two. I would say AoC has a much better chance of being released.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Well, you are here trying to debating about a game you are not willing to try out. You have nothing but opinions to argue your point of view. Give me some statistics, facts so we have something to debate.
the debate is not about me not willing to try it out. it would be one thing if there was actually a game to try out. but since there has yet to be a beta. i cant exactly have that choice now can i. nor can u or anyone in this forum. the debate isnt about trying out the game, the debate is abotu whether or not this game is ever going to be finished. and there is no direct evidence to show that is the in fact the case. until then, you can go on believing and hoping. your entitled to that.
3.4ghz Phenom II X4 965, 8GB PC12800 DDR3 GSKILL, EVGA 560GTX 2GB OC, 640GB HD SATA II, BFG 1000WATT PSU. MSI NF980-G65 TRI-SLI MOBO.
a 27 million bond is enough evedence for me along with the vids and screenies
It seems that they are continuously working on it so yes there is evidence that its going to be finished and from the way it seems quite soon.
Until the game is shown at trade shows (meaning people can play it live and not just these screenshots and videos) then the game is vaporware. Unfortunately for Darkfall they have been in development for too long to get the benefit of the doubt. UO2 and the other UO sequal had videos to show and screenshots. Heck they even had a publisher, but the game never launched.
To the guy that keeps saying that developement didn't start until 2003. That is just plain BS. It is an excuse to try and make the game sound like it hasn't been worked on for as long as it really has. Darkfall was listed on MMORPG.com back in 2002 already. The game was being worked on way before that.
As a prior poster stated Asheron's Call was created by 10 people in a house. AC1 is a huge seemless world. Which skill based dodging of attacks. A Skill advancement system and numerous other features that hadn't been seen in an MMO before. They did this and launched their game with no problems. Yet DF has had more time and more developers over the life spand of their development cycle and yet has less to show for it.
If DarkFall was really ready for Beta it would of been shown at the gaming convention in Germany. That is all the proof we need. The fact that it wasn't shown there means it is not ready to go into Beta.
Heck WAR, AoC, Hellgate London, and numerous other MMO games that hadn't started their Beta have been shown at numerous conventions. That fact alone shows what it means to be "Vaporware" and to be considered more substantial.
About the supposed loan they got. That doesn't mean anything. Do you know how a Loan even works? It wasn't 27 million worth of investment by some large company who needed proof that the game was going to work. They took out a loan. A Loan proves that the company has good enough credit and collateral to get a bank loan. That is it. A bank is not going to loan you money based on the potential revenue of a video game. They will loan you money based on your credit score or the value of the hard assets you own. That is how they were able to get that loan.
War Beta Tester
You can get a loan based on collateral.
What else is Aventurine working on that would be able to pay off a 27 million dollar loan? It has to be payed back, and as far as I know, DF is all they have, ATM.
That could mean that Aventurine is putting alot of faith into DF.
yep alot of people are smart enough to relize that bond means beta soon XD mosy likely this year
and thats fine : ) it sbetter they callign them liers or they dont have crap and there making it up just cause they dont have a Pr guy and not showing every detail there is Like no other mmorpg has before beta
im just sayimg im pretty positive about beta starting this year for it