There's still a ton of things the devs need to fix to get VG up to par. Yet for all it's flaws, I still find a lot of fun in the game. I hope SOE can turn it into the game that a lot of people were hoping it would be.
The problem is, the game that people were hoping for never existed, except in the overhyped, excitable posts by Brad, and in a sort of rose-colored nostalgia for the early (pre-Planes of Power) days of EverQuest that some people have been carrying around for several years.
Vanguard cannot and will not ever be that game, because that game is a myth.
However, if SOE takes the time to fix and overhaul VG, and tries to bring it up to par, it could eventually recover and become a much better game on its own merits, and it might even stabilize with an expanded playerbase. That's still possible. Living up to the promises that were made, and the hype that drove this game? Not a chance. But there's always room for improvement and for them to get things on an even keel.
It won't recover, and I hope not too. Look at EQ2...terrible launch, and while its definately a much better game today and has climbing subscriber base it has never truly recovered and reached its full potential. It's also taken them 3 long years to get to where they are, and Vanguard cannot afford to take 3 years to try and recover anyway people would have moved on, and most already have. Many of the servers are pretty dead, like there's only one or two servers truly populated at all times. Vanguard had an even worse launch, and I really don't think it will fully recover anymore its burdened by its poor reputation and went backwards and not forwards...we don't need a bad game like this encouraging other devs to launch their MMOs, which could be potentially be really good, half-finished and bugtastic and ruining them forever. So I totally agree with the OP.
It won't recover, and I hope not too. Look at EQ2...terrible launch, and while its definately a much better game today and has climbing subscriber base it has never truly recovered and reached its full potential. It's also taken them 3 long years to get to where they are, and Vanguard cannot afford to take 3 years to try and recover anyway people would have moved on, and most already have. Many of the servers are pretty dead, like there's only one or two servers truly populated at all times. Vanguard had an even worse launch, and I really don't think it will fully recover anymore its burdened by its poor reputation and went backwards and not forwards...we don't need a bad game like this encouraging other devs to launch their MMOs, which could be potentially be really good, half-finished and bugtastic and ruining them forever. So I totally agree with the OP.
You don't want to encourage devs to release unfinished games, but most of you keep encouraging devs releasing simple-minded cartoony easy wow-crap. In addition this wasnt dev decision to release the game. The game had to be released, cause the studio ran out of money and the whole project would need to close. So they decided to release it. Can't blame them and it's stupid and naive to think any devs will be encouraged by this.
Vanguard can afford even 5 years to get to lets say 300.000 subs. There is no other game on horizon that can be called as competition to vanguard (maybe only darkfall, but thats almost like vaporware). WAR, AoC, CoS are all competition for WoW surely not for vanguard.
I have to agree with the OP. I have made several attempts at VG and always come out feeling robbed. I liken Brad to a retired prize fighter coming out of retirement once again to sully his once golden reputation for an opportunity to run away with the cash while the spectators /boggle.
This game has almost as many bugs as it had at release and that's a boatload. Quests that worked in February are currently broken due to attempted fixes in other areas. Amazing graphics botched by jaggies and graphical anomalies that need to be /flushed every 5 minutes. Immersion is broken by a CTD every 60-90 minutes.
Community wise I'd say it's OK. I am and original EQ player and I'd say that's my crowd, but anyone who says this is old EQ revisited is kidding themselves. The nightly EQ nostalgia starts at 8:00 p.m. sharp with a rallying WoW bash every 15 minutes, and that's when i separate from the masses. This game is no harder than WoW and has many more issues. That being said, it has much more potential and with proper management it could be a top shelf MMO. Unfortunately, it does not have that management and it will never be a top shelf MMO.
Give it up already, it crashed and burned. I recommend you take this opportunity to put your money where you'll be appreciated and maybe, someday, feel justified.
YOUR ACCOUNT HAS BEEN CANCELED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATRONAGE.
Thats all very well and good but dont you think that it's kind of selfish? i mean what about its current user base? is it really fair on them to say it should die? they may actualy want to play it and enjoy it.
Heres an idea! if you dont like it dont play it. glad i could help you there. i feel good for doing someone a favour today
I have played many mmorpg games and vanguard for me has by far the most potential. But a game that has 40 staff working on character development, coding, art and combat just isn't going to be able to survive. This game has some of the best graphics and *game* play i have seen in a long time. I have played Vanguard from the beggining of its exsistance and it has come a hell of a long way. But if sony want to get serious about a game the has the potential to be one of the best mmorpg's on the market then they have to do something about getting more staff to work on the many problems that are currently in the game. I am willing to give this game another 1/4 of a year because i believe it can be great but as a level 50 i have nothing to do. We are all more then ready for APW to go live but with the lag issues on the server and the constant mob bugs APW will either ruin the game or will bring alot of players back... Lets just hope that sony gets it right
Just to show game producers that releasing unfinished games is not and will not be accepted. Period.
Look they had two options. Either close the whole project and go home to their wife and kids and change profession or release vanguard at the stage it was and fix all the bugs after release. They ran out of funds and had to make this decision. Yes I realize maybe you would like to see them closing the whole game, but for me it was a good choice. I enjoy the game a lot, more than anything else.
I have played many mmorpg games and vanguard for me has by far the most potential. But a game that has 40 staff working on character development, coding, art and combat just isn't going to be able to survive. This game has some of the best graphics and *game* play i have seen in a long time. I have played Vanguard from the beggining of its exsistance and it has come a hell of a long way. But if sony want to get serious about a game the has the potential to be one of the best mmorpg's on the market then they have to do something about getting more staff to work on the many problems that are currently in the game. I am willing to give this game another 1/4 of a year because i believe it can be great but as a level 50 i have nothing to do. We are all more then ready for APW to go live but with the lag issues on the server and the constant mob bugs APW will either ruin the game or will bring alot of players back... Lets just hope that sony gets it right
APW you mean All Pro Wrestling Organization .. or? :>
Anyway I think 40 people should be enough to maintain the game and fix the bugs. Yes 70-80 people is usually needed to develop a MMO but then once its done only a small portion of them continue working on maintaince and bug fixing, the rest is transfered to another projects usually. What the game needs at the moment is mostly performance improvments, remove all CTD's and optimalization.
It must happen. Only if we let it die, the lesson is learned. I had my entries and breaks, but now, after server merge, I came back a third time. VG has it qualities, no doubt. But all in all its cumbersome, difficult, deadly and dull. I still spent about 60% of my time SEEKING things instead of having fun, I still die waaay too fast and often compared to medium difficulty games like EQ2 ( NO I DONT PLAY WOW!) and still its difficult to find a group (not because of lack of players, but those who are in only group with friends) asf. Really, VG has qualities, but altogether its so unbelievable cumbersome, EACH damn time I feel, hey lets resub and see how VG has evolved after some time I feel intolerable levels for frustration. When I was stuck in some damn curtain of doom today (aka bug) and died because of the uber fast repop I just decided this was my thrid and last try. VG deserves to die. Its a lesson devs must learn, the painful way, as I learned in this thrice damned excuse for a game. >< You may write athousand times I am stupid, whatever. I think I am as good or as bad as most players, and years of MMO experience have shown ME, what I am capable of, which is all I need to know. The unwelcoming nature of the game is just too much.
When I played VG, I made sure to stay away from inexperienced and clueless players such as yourself.. I actually had alot of fun grouping with "good smart players" that knew how to play their characters and knew how to pull in dungeons, what the approximate repop times were, etc. We completed dungeons that you and your "friends" wouldnt even have attempted more than a few times before crying and ranting about how "hard" and stupid it is..
I could tell by the first two sentences of your post that you enjoy and prefer MMO's that are on ez mode.. Vanguard is just to hard for you to enjoy friend, so theres no need for you to create hate threads just because your a retard, k?
Go back to guild wars, wow, and any other fairly easy mmo's you like to play.. SOE is busting their butt trying to fix what was wrong with VG in the first place, with performance being the main issue.. Thats the main reason I along with my other friends and guildies quit as well.. Even with terrible performance we still managed to complete dungeons such as VT, Thel, Darguns tomb, etc with a little bit of planning, strategy, and preparation.. Although, VT was probably the easiest dungeon of all the mid 30's-40 dungeons in the game heh..
Anyway, back to my point... Threads like these need to get deleted.. We dont need to hear little girls crying because games are to hard for them to enjoy,,,,,sheesh.
Rallithon Oakthornn (Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
It is because people buy unfinished and buggy games that producers think that they can get away with releasing a game before it is finished and work on the bugs later.
OK they dont always make it public knowledge that the game is not finished, but with a MMORPG there is no hiding, as a monthly fee is required.
It doesn't happen with other products why should it happen with software/games. Obviously some bugs are always present in software.
We the consumers need to send a clear message to producers that unfinished products will not sell and the only way we can do that is not to buy them!
Of course i long for a new MMORPG but games like Vanguard cause more stress and frustration than joy and we should not tolerate them!!!!
It is because people buy unfinished and buggy games that producers think that they can get away with releasing a game before it is finished and work on the bugs later. OK they dont always make it public knowledge that the game is not finished, but with a MMORPG there is no hiding, as a monthly fee is required. It doesn't happen with other products why should it happen with software/games. Obviously some bugs are always present in software.
We the consumers need to send a clear message to producers that unfinished products will not sell and the only way we can do that is not to buy them! Of course i long for a new MMORPG but games like Vanguard cause more stress and frustration than joy and we should not tolerate them!!!!
Dude all of the games you list in your sig, started as buggy POS... including WoW.
Look at Windows Vista - crap
XP - crap
NT - crap
Every piece of software ever written was a diamond in the rough at version 1. In the case of these games, they are _BIGGER_ than the operating system they are running on. I'm surprised they work as well as they do at release. If Microsoft can't get it right, how the hell do you expect 50 (or even 500) people writing a game to ROFL.
Good luck living up to your ideals of only purchasing finshed bug free software because you'll never buy anything.
It is because people buy unfinished and buggy games that producers think that they can get away with releasing a game before it is finished and work on the bugs later. OK they dont always make it public knowledge that the game is not finished, but with a MMORPG there is no hiding, as a monthly fee is required. It doesn't happen with other products why should it happen with software/games. Obviously some bugs are always present in software.
We the consumers need to send a clear message to producers that unfinished products will not sell and the only way we can do that is not to buy them! Of course i long for a new MMORPG but games like Vanguard cause more stress and frustration than joy and we should not tolerate them!!!!
What's this "we"-stuff you people keep bringing up? You DO know that the number of people who, like children, are actively seeking the demise of something that they didn't enjoy, are the biggest minority here, right? There's the world populace, then there's people who play Vanguard, and then there's your little team.
"We" meaning "me" will not only tolerate this game, but also enjoy it, and "we" meaning "you" can get stuffed if you really think that your drivel is gonna get people to leave the game. At worst it'll become "underground"- that thing you play *because* people say it's the Devil. At best, you'll get people to join Vanguard to see what all the fuss is about and it'll grow.
Why I'm responding despite being certain your "attempts" at getting a game to suffocate won't work? Because a swing and a miss is still a swing, and that pisses me off. You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but:
STOP.CALLING.FOR.VANGUARD.TO.DIE
It will not happen, nor should it.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Managing a budget is one of the critical things a producer like the all seeing ,all knowing, BRAD is supposed to know how to do.When you screw up....you get a VG.
It must happen. Only if we let it die, the lesson is learned. I had my entries and breaks, but now, after server merge, I came back a third time. VG has it qualities, no doubt. But all in all its cumbersome, difficult, deadly and dull. I still spent about 60% of my time SEEKING things instead of having fun, I still die waaay too fast and often compared to medium difficulty games like EQ2 ( NO I DONT PLAY WOW!) and still its difficult to find a group (not because of lack of players, but those who are in only group with friends) asf. Really, VG has qualities, but altogether its so unbelievable cumbersome, EACH damn time I feel, hey lets resub and see how VG has evolved after some time I feel intolerable levels for frustration. When I was stuck in some damn curtain of doom today (aka bug) and died because of the uber fast repop I just decided this was my thrid and last try. VG deserves to die. Its a lesson devs must learn, the painful way, as I learned in this thrice damned excuse for a game. >< You may write athousand times I am stupid, whatever. I think I am as good or as bad as most players, and years of MMO experience have shown ME, what I am capable of, which is all I need to know. The unwelcoming nature of the game is just too much.
When I played VG, I made sure to stay away from inexperienced and clueless players such as yourself.. I actually had alot of fun grouping with "good smart players" that knew how to play their characters and knew how to pull in dungeons, what the approximate repop times were, etc. We completed dungeons that you and your "friends" wouldnt even have attempted more than a few times before crying and ranting about how "hard" and stupid it is..
I could tell by the first two sentences of your post that you enjoy and prefer MMO's that are on ez mode.. Vanguard is just to hard for you to enjoy friend, so theres no need for you to create hate threads just because your a retard, k?
Go back to guild wars, wow, and any other fairly easy mmo's you like to play.. SOE is busting their butt trying to fix what was wrong with VG in the first place, with performance being the main issue.. Thats the main reason I along with my other friends and guildies quit as well.. Even with terrible performance we still managed to complete dungeons such as VT, Thel, Darguns tomb, etc with a little bit of planning, strategy, and preparation.. Although, VT was probably the easiest dungeon of all the mid 30's-40 dungeons in the game heh..
Anyway, back to my point... Threads like these need to get deleted.. We dont need to hear little girls crying because games are to hard for them to enjoy,,,,,sheesh.
What is your cup of tea may not be someone elses. Being such an obviously intelligent person I would think you could have made your point (which is completely your opinion) without slandering someone elses intelligence.
Of course WoW and Eve had bugs but they were playable, and in fact, the bugs in Wow when it came out were so few i can't remember any of them.
If you run out of money, as Vanguard did towards the end of development, then it is the Testing that gets cut, and this is the most important stage of software development.
Buggy is not the same as unfinished. As i said all software is buggy. Of course WoW and Eve had bugs but they were playable, and in fact, the bugs in Wow when it came out were so few i can't remember any of them. If you run out of money, as Vanguard did towards the end of development, then it is the Testing that gets cut, and this is the most important stage of software development.
WoW was full of bugs at release and lotro has even more. Lotro has even more, im still subscribing to that so its fresh in my memory and give you plenty of examples. Besides lotro performance is worse for me then it is in vanguard. Im getting complete system lock up in Lotro (and only in Lotro) that technical support couldnt resolve. In Vanguard I have only like one CTD every 4-5 hours. (And that's because of the vistax64 bit OS I use).
Of course Vanguard was more bugged at release but i wouldnt call it unplayable. And to think that we should punish devs and let it die so future releases won't copy this great idea of releasing bugged game is stupid.
"We" are people who buy MMORPGs,, if you are so short sighted that you buy a game that is unfinished then you should not really be buying/playing these type of games anyway, go play Mario carts or something!
What is your cup of tea may not be someone elses. Being such an obviously intelligent person I would think you could have made your point (which is completely your opinion) without slandering someone elses intelligence.
As opposed to making your point without calling for the demise of a whole community?
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
"We" are people who buy MMORPGs,, if you are so short sighted that you buy a game that is unfinished then you should not really be buying/playing these type of games anyway, go play Mario carts or something!
I buy MMORPG's- many of them. And I never agreed to you as my spokesperson- nor did anyone else. Even those who stand with you (both of them) can hopefully speak for themselves.
As for Mario Kart, I did play it- I probably beat your dad at it.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Thillain are you saying that Wow when it first came out was as bad as Vanguard?
Yeah LOTR was laggy for me too, hence retired, performance is another issues that Dev/producers need to get right before releasing a game. EQ2 and LOTR are two games that have bad performance, these are RPGs for God sake, not driving games or FPSs that move at 100mph, how they cant get their games to run smoothly on an average PC is just bad!
lol I am not your spokesman, i am just pointing out to you how to behave in the world, and how to move forward,
left to the likes of you there will always be bad and buggy games out there. All i am saying is not to accpet it. Instead of being taken by fools by hungry and greedy producers!
Do you even read what you're posting? How I should "behave in the world", are you serious? Move forward? Just because you and your followers (both of them) are calling for the game to die, because you and your followers (both of them) don't like it, doesn't mean I would have to move forward.
Which I have no intention of doing by the way- I'll continue playing and I'll continue to like it, and many others with me. You're the one who's a fool if you think you can force your opinion on anyone but yourself. You're also a troll. Enjoy your lunch.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
What is your cup of tea may not be someone elses. Being such an obviously intelligent person I would think you could have made your point (which is completely your opinion) without slandering someone elses intelligence.
As opposed to making your point without calling for the demise of a whole community?
I was addressing his use of insults which are never neccesary, and in the long run undermine trying to make a point. I was not adressing the validity of the message the op was giving.
Comments
The problem is, the game that people were hoping for never existed, except in the overhyped, excitable posts by Brad, and in a sort of rose-colored nostalgia for the early (pre-Planes of Power) days of EverQuest that some people have been carrying around for several years.
Vanguard cannot and will not ever be that game, because that game is a myth.
However, if SOE takes the time to fix and overhaul VG, and tries to bring it up to par, it could eventually recover and become a much better game on its own merits, and it might even stabilize with an expanded playerbase. That's still possible. Living up to the promises that were made, and the hype that drove this game? Not a chance. But there's always room for improvement and for them to get things on an even keel.
It won't recover, and I hope not too. Look at EQ2...terrible launch, and while its definately a much better game today and has climbing subscriber base it has never truly recovered and reached its full potential. It's also taken them 3 long years to get to where they are, and Vanguard cannot afford to take 3 years to try and recover anyway people would have moved on, and most already have. Many of the servers are pretty dead, like there's only one or two servers truly populated at all times. Vanguard had an even worse launch, and I really don't think it will fully recover anymore its burdened by its poor reputation and went backwards and not forwards...we don't need a bad game like this encouraging other devs to launch their MMOs, which could be potentially be really good, half-finished and bugtastic and ruining them forever. So I totally agree with the OP.
You don't want to encourage devs to release unfinished games, but most of you keep encouraging devs releasing simple-minded cartoony easy wow-crap. In addition this wasnt dev decision to release the game. The game had to be released, cause the studio ran out of money and the whole project would need to close. So they decided to release it. Can't blame them and it's stupid and naive to think any devs will be encouraged by this.
Vanguard can afford even 5 years to get to lets say 300.000 subs. There is no other game on horizon that can be called as competition to vanguard (maybe only darkfall, but thats almost like vaporware). WAR, AoC, CoS are all competition for WoW surely not for vanguard.
REALITY CHECK
I have to agree with the OP. I have made several attempts at VG and always come out feeling robbed. I liken Brad to a retired prize fighter coming out of retirement once again to sully his once golden reputation for an opportunity to run away with the cash while the spectators /boggle.
This game has almost as many bugs as it had at release and that's a boatload. Quests that worked in February are currently broken due to attempted fixes in other areas. Amazing graphics botched by jaggies and graphical anomalies that need to be /flushed every 5 minutes. Immersion is broken by a CTD every 60-90 minutes.
Community wise I'd say it's OK. I am and original EQ player and I'd say that's my crowd, but anyone who says this is old EQ revisited is kidding themselves. The nightly EQ nostalgia starts at 8:00 p.m. sharp with a rallying WoW bash every 15 minutes, and that's when i separate from the masses. This game is no harder than WoW and has many more issues. That being said, it has much more potential and with proper management it could be a top shelf MMO. Unfortunately, it does not have that management and it will never be a top shelf MMO.
Give it up already, it crashed and burned. I recommend you take this opportunity to put your money where you'll be appreciated and maybe, someday, feel justified.
YOUR ACCOUNT HAS BEEN CANCELED. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATRONAGE.
VG should die.
Just to show game producers that releasing unfinished games is not and will not be accepted.
Period.
Thats all very well and good but dont you think that it's kind of selfish? i mean what about its current user base? is it really fair on them to say it should die? they may actualy want to play it and enjoy it.
Heres an idea! if you dont like it dont play it. glad i could help you there. i feel good for doing someone a favour today
I have played many mmorpg games and vanguard for me has by far the most potential. But a game that has 40 staff working on character development, coding, art and combat just isn't going to be able to survive. This game has some of the best graphics and *game* play i have seen in a long time. I have played Vanguard from the beggining of its exsistance and it has come a hell of a long way. But if sony want to get serious about a game the has the potential to be one of the best mmorpg's on the market then they have to do something about getting more staff to work on the many problems that are currently in the game. I am willing to give this game another 1/4 of a year because i believe it can be great but as a level 50 i have nothing to do. We are all more then ready for APW to go live but with the lag issues on the server and the constant mob bugs APW will either ruin the game or will bring alot of players back... Lets just hope that sony gets it right
Look they had two options. Either close the whole project and go home to their wife and kids and change profession or release vanguard at the stage it was and fix all the bugs after release. They ran out of funds and had to make this decision. Yes I realize maybe you would like to see them closing the whole game, but for me it was a good choice. I enjoy the game a lot, more than anything else.
REALITY CHECK
Anyway I think 40 people should be enough to maintain the game and fix the bugs. Yes 70-80 people is usually needed to develop a MMO but then once its done only a small portion of them continue working on maintaince and bug fixing, the rest is transfered to another projects usually. What the game needs at the moment is mostly performance improvments, remove all CTD's and optimalization.
REALITY CHECK
When I played VG, I made sure to stay away from inexperienced and clueless players such as yourself.. I actually had alot of fun grouping with "good smart players" that knew how to play their characters and knew how to pull in dungeons, what the approximate repop times were, etc. We completed dungeons that you and your "friends" wouldnt even have attempted more than a few times before crying and ranting about how "hard" and stupid it is..
I could tell by the first two sentences of your post that you enjoy and prefer MMO's that are on ez mode.. Vanguard is just to hard for you to enjoy friend, so theres no need for you to create hate threads just because your a retard, k?
Go back to guild wars, wow, and any other fairly easy mmo's you like to play.. SOE is busting their butt trying to fix what was wrong with VG in the first place, with performance being the main issue.. Thats the main reason I along with my other friends and guildies quit as well.. Even with terrible performance we still managed to complete dungeons such as VT, Thel, Darguns tomb, etc with a little bit of planning, strategy, and preparation.. Although, VT was probably the easiest dungeon of all the mid 30's-40 dungeons in the game heh..
Anyway, back to my point... Threads like these need to get deleted.. We dont need to hear little girls crying because games are to hard for them to enjoy,,,,,sheesh.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
It is because people buy unfinished and buggy games that producers think that they can get away with releasing a game before it is finished and work on the bugs later.
OK they dont always make it public knowledge that the game is not finished, but with a MMORPG there is no hiding, as a monthly fee is required.
It doesn't happen with other products why should it happen with software/games. Obviously some bugs are always present in software.
We the consumers need to send a clear message to producers that unfinished products will not sell and the only way we can do that is not to buy them!
Of course i long for a new MMORPG but games like Vanguard cause more stress and frustration than joy and we should not tolerate them!!!!
Look at Windows Vista - crap
XP - crap
NT - crap
Every piece of software ever written was a diamond in the rough at version 1. In the case of these games, they are _BIGGER_ than the operating system they are running on. I'm surprised they work as well as they do at release. If Microsoft can't get it right, how the hell do you expect 50 (or even 500) people writing a game to ROFL.
Good luck living up to your ideals of only purchasing finshed bug free software because you'll never buy anything.
-Viz
What's this "we"-stuff you people keep bringing up? You DO know that the number of people who, like children, are actively seeking the demise of something that they didn't enjoy, are the biggest minority here, right? There's the world populace, then there's people who play Vanguard, and then there's your little team.
"We" meaning "me" will not only tolerate this game, but also enjoy it, and "we" meaning "you" can get stuffed if you really think that your drivel is gonna get people to leave the game. At worst it'll become "underground"- that thing you play *because* people say it's the Devil. At best, you'll get people to join Vanguard to see what all the fuss is about and it'll grow.
Why I'm responding despite being certain your "attempts" at getting a game to suffocate won't work? Because a swing and a miss is still a swing, and that pisses me off. You're entitled to your opinion just like everyone else, but:
STOP.CALLING.FOR.VANGUARD.TO.DIE
It will not happen, nor should it.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
Managing a budget is one of the critical things a producer like the all seeing ,all knowing, BRAD is supposed to know how to do.When you screw up....you get a VG.
When I played VG, I made sure to stay away from inexperienced and clueless players such as yourself.. I actually had alot of fun grouping with "good smart players" that knew how to play their characters and knew how to pull in dungeons, what the approximate repop times were, etc. We completed dungeons that you and your "friends" wouldnt even have attempted more than a few times before crying and ranting about how "hard" and stupid it is..
I could tell by the first two sentences of your post that you enjoy and prefer MMO's that are on ez mode.. Vanguard is just to hard for you to enjoy friend, so theres no need for you to create hate threads just because your a retard, k?
Go back to guild wars, wow, and any other fairly easy mmo's you like to play.. SOE is busting their butt trying to fix what was wrong with VG in the first place, with performance being the main issue.. Thats the main reason I along with my other friends and guildies quit as well.. Even with terrible performance we still managed to complete dungeons such as VT, Thel, Darguns tomb, etc with a little bit of planning, strategy, and preparation.. Although, VT was probably the easiest dungeon of all the mid 30's-40 dungeons in the game heh..
Anyway, back to my point... Threads like these need to get deleted.. We dont need to hear little girls crying because games are to hard for them to enjoy,,,,,sheesh.
What is your cup of tea may not be someone elses. Being such an obviously intelligent person
I would think you could have made your point (which is completely your opinion) without slandering someone elses intelligence. 
No signature, I don't have a pen
Buggy is not the same as unfinished.
As i said all software is buggy.
Of course WoW and Eve had bugs but they were playable, and in fact, the bugs in Wow when it came out were so few i can't remember any of them.
If you run out of money, as Vanguard did towards the end of development, then it is the Testing that gets cut, and this is the most important stage of software development.
WoW was full of bugs at release and lotro has even more. Lotro has even more, im still subscribing to that so its fresh in my memory and give you plenty of examples. Besides lotro performance is worse for me then it is in vanguard. Im getting complete system lock up in Lotro (and only in Lotro) that technical support couldnt resolve. In Vanguard I have only like one CTD every 4-5 hours. (And that's because of the vistax64 bit OS I use).
Of course Vanguard was more bugged at release but i wouldnt call it unplayable. And to think that we should punish devs and let it die so future releases won't copy this great idea of releasing bugged game is stupid.
REALITY CHECK
"We" are people who buy MMORPGs,, if you are so short sighted that you buy a game that is unfinished then you should not really be buying/playing these type of games anyway, go play Mario carts or something!
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
I buy MMORPG's- many of them. And I never agreed to you as my spokesperson- nor did anyone else. Even those who stand with you (both of them) can hopefully speak for themselves.
As for Mario Kart, I did play it- I probably beat your dad at it.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
Thillain are you saying that Wow when it first came out was as bad as Vanguard?
Yeah LOTR was laggy for me too, hence retired, performance is another issues that Dev/producers need to get right before releasing a game. EQ2 and LOTR are two games that have bad performance, these are RPGs for God sake, not driving games or FPSs that move at 100mph, how they cant get their games to run smoothly on an average PC is just bad!
lol I am not your spokesman, i am just pointing out to you how to behave in the world, and how to move forward,
left to the likes of you there will always be bad and buggy games out there. All i am saying is not to accpet it.
Instead of being taken by fools by hungry and greedy producers!
LOL i was playing computer games before you were born Dude
But there is no need to go personal!
Do you even read what you're posting? How I should "behave in the world", are you serious? Move forward? Just because you and your followers (both of them) are calling for the game to die, because you and your followers (both of them) don't like it, doesn't mean I would have to move forward.
Which I have no intention of doing by the way- I'll continue playing and I'll continue to like it, and many others with me. You're the one who's a fool if you think you can force your opinion on anyone but yourself. You're also a troll. Enjoy your lunch.
Now playing: City of Heroes/Villains, Age of Conan
Played: Eve, Hg:L, Vanguard, WoW, FFXI, Planetside, Neocron, Battlezone, EQII, AO, CoX, AA, DDO
I win at Vanguard.
I was addressing his use of insults which are never neccesary, and in the long run undermine trying to make a point. I was not adressing the validity of the message the op was giving.
No signature, I don't have a pen