I'm "over it" its just that I feel its necessary to remind people of kind of company soe is and how they treat their customers since its often brushed off by the ignorant and the fanbois.
Don't give yourself to much credit. Those that you refer to that you think you can save. You think they look at these kind of threads like something else then trolling and flaming. If they even bother to read it.
You honestly belive that , LOL , what type of developer would do that , they have been working on this for 5 years , you really think they would give up possibly thousands of subscriptions for a bit of advertising , give me a break ffs.
Station pass = FLS getting no income from monthly subs.
think about it will you , and stop trying to be an internet smart ass.
Sony own this game , if not then please explain to me why Pirates of the burning sea is on the station pass??
LOL funny stuff.
So, I've explained this several times already, but once again for those late to the party. SOE doesn't own us, however we've contracted with them to provide us with various services. This includes marketing, box & online distribution, and handling our billing. It does *NOT* include anything to do with our game servers, any game code design or development, or any decision making as to when we ship.
The fact that they are handling our billing means we are made available on the Sony Station Pass. It doesn't mean we don't get any money from the subscriptions. We're not stupid. In reality we get a much higher percentage of the subscriptions than with any other publisher we've talked too, and in fact higher than any other game I've ever heard of. Sony is taking a small percentage to cover the costs of billing, a modest amount of profit, and we get the rest. If you're a station pass holder, we get money from that too, based on how much you play our game.
So, to reiterate, being on the Station Pass has nothing to do with Sony owning you, it's a separate business transaction. Sony doesn't own us. Only a small percentage of your subsciption money goes to them, most of it goes to us.
RickSaada: I hate to say this, but I don't even know why you bother anymore. People are either going to play this game because it's a breath of fresh air in a dwarf-infested world, or they're not because they hate SOE so much that they'll boycott any and every item associated with Sony whether it's to their benefit or not. They'll continue to see things in their comic-book view of "x is good and y is evil," and nothing anyone can say will change that.
Even if Sony were to release a handheld computer/phone/music & video player/cheese grater/bread maker/oven toaster they won't buy it, though it might mean missing out on the chance to listen to muzak and chatting with their buddies while munching on grilled cheese sammiches.
To all the others: Take off your tinfoil hats and get over it. SWG was a bloody game, it wasn't your life. YOU took the risk when you agreed to the EULA that specifically states that "On-Line Game Experience May Change." For better or worse, the experience changes. If you want to play in a static game world, buy a console (but not a PS) and play Legend of Zelda or Prince of Persia or any of the other good games that will never, ever change. Relish your memories because there was inevitably going to be a time that the game would've died anyhow. And if you've read past that cold, hard truth (and set aside your own "truthiness"), maybe you should take a look at http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/march04/galaxies/01/index.shtml which details the lead-up to the CU along with many comments by players and devs alike.
Most of you blame solely SOE, not LucasArts who owns the franchise, and certainly not your fellow players who all indicated through their vociferous forum complaints, holocron and village grinds that they wanted to be Jedi and wanted the game to be a certain way. Well, the devs delivered.
I, for one, have been looking forward to PotBS for many reasons, not least of which is the openness of it's developers, and the parrot I get when I pre-order.
Darkstar, please educate yourself a little more before you open your mouth about peoples choices and Sony. There are many other problems associated with SOE and their parent corp if you choose to at least try to understand that. SWG was a fiasco that does overshadow most of the other bad experiences of SOE, but it is by far not the only one. Sony has a bad reputation for a reason and it isn't just SWG.
PotBS might turn out to be something great, but all history of SOE is going against it. There is no reason to just assume it will be anything good just because it doesn't have elves and orcs. I fault no one for having a weary eye at best. I commend those who stick to their convictions to not support a company they do not approve of their actions. The same I commend Rick for facing the public even though Sigil burned up any credibility his words might have had (by no fault of his own mind you).
PotBS might turn out to be something great, but all history of SOE is going against it. There is no reason to just assume it will be anything good just because it doesn't have elves and orcs. I fault no one for having a weary eye at best. I commend those who stick to their convictions to not support a company they do not approve of their actions. The same I commend Rick for facing the public even though Sigil burned up any credibility his words might have had (by no fault of his own mind you).
Though I'll never buy his game, ever, I commend Rick Saada and the other devs too for coming forward and taking the heat. Nothing personal against them. It might be good if soe had devs like this.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Wow, Rick, you are one of the most patient people on this planet. I can not believe you are actually replying to all the stupid comments. But don't worry, all the people who take time to reply in this thread will be buying the game no matter what they say. For some reason they can't just wait till release and see for themselves if the game is good.
Sorry to break it to you but very few of SOE's current MMO's could be declared successful except their flagship EQ2. You can be sure SOE isn't going to give a care wether Pirates of the Burning Sea is successful or not, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if SOE helped ruin the game by providing less than mediocre customer support and marketing.
Dont bother putting facts in or anything. Nothing can sway those that are SOE Haters, certainly not mere facts.
If SOE is even mentioned in the same sentance as a game the Haters get out of their computer chairs (Finally) grab a Red Bull (or fill in energy drink of your choice) and get the the hate typing.
I love SOE, they created my most loved game, and i hope that they help to promote your game and get it out there for everyone. The problem i see is that you hired SOE to market your game and from what i have seen SOE sucks at marketing. You can not find a copy or EQ2 in stores or see a story about it in a magazine. EQ was the same way. You should have gotten Blizzard, they can get millions of people to play a game that really isnt that good.
The fact of the matter is, as many of the higher-ups within FLS have said, is that they chose SOE simply because SOE will NOT impose their will over FLS, and will not have any control over the actual content of the game aside from billing, marketing, and distribution.
As Russel Williams said, they shopped long and hard looking for a distributor who would agree to their terms, ON their terms. That is, FLS takes care of the development, customer service, and server maintenance.
I'm truly sorry that what you believe doesn't jive with what the owners of FLS are saying will happen. It's your choice.
Many of you may point to the fact that Vanguard failed, but some (or none) of you fail to realize is that Brad McQuaid kept looking for investors, Microsoft was interested but they pulled out because of what they didn't like. Sigil promised the moon and delivered a meteorite. That was all Sigil's fault. Not SOE's. SOE gave them money, and they did what any other company would do when Sigil defaulted on the loans; they bought them out. Then they pushed Vanguard because, well, admittedly, they didn't learn from their own mistakes. And Vanguard was under development for what, two years? (I'm just going by the forum commentary here, haven't actually played the game....).
But isn't Vanguard still going? Instead of bombing it's going and maybe it might be decent to play. Some people still play it (believe it or not).
That's an entirely different situation to what's happening with FLS who have been developing their game for over five years, and listening to the community. Avatar combat wasn't part of the original plan; but as soon as people started comparing it to EvE Online in that you couldn't leave your ship, some started to lose interest. That's a case of the devs listening to the community. (Many of whom are rabid to see this game).
And yet, people point to the constant push-back of release dates as something SOE dictated. Well, no. It's something the game community wanted, so FLS put it in.
As far as analogies go, if I grow tomatoes as an independent farmer, I have three choices.
1) I can let you come to me, in which case I have to depend not only on word of mouth and your willingness to come to me, but also I will have to set up the retail aspect of it as well. I will have to sell it all to you myself, which means I have to hire people to sell it, rather than using that money for myself which could be better spent by buying more land and making more tomatoes.
2) If I find a large grocery chain that will label, distribute, and advertise my tomatoes then all I really have to do is keep growing tomatoes. They'll ask for more tomatoes and maybe they'll ask for other crops such as corn. I'll still be making tomatoes, maybe more than I thought possible, but now I have the option to grow corn. I can use that option to make more tomatoes, or I can use it to start making corn, but why not do both?
3) The third option is, I can grow tomatoes and if you come to me, I still have to sell it to you myself, but I'm too busy growing tomatoes to sell it to you effectively and market my tomatoes to other people who never would've heard about the tasty juiciness. Slowly but surely I can grow a consumer-base that will only want to buy MY tomatoes, but now I can't grow corn because I don't have that option; I have to keep growing the same tomatoes but in a higher volume.
FLS has chosen option 2; that is, they've found someone to advertise, distribute, and market their product. People always want tomatoes; it's just a question of where they want it from and how it's delivered. Does it really matter which company trucks them in?
In a nutshell, more people seeing your product equals more people buying your product. How many people who have recently gotten new computers will ever bother to come to these forums, and if they do, how many will read past the hate to see the truth?
Sure SOE has done some bad business practices. I played SWG and Planetside, both of which I liked immensely, but those are both SOE in-house games.
This is a completely different story. SOE is just the distributor, the publisher.
Even id Software, the beloved creator of the Doom and Quake series, 3rd-partied Hexen, Hexen 2, Heretic 2, Quake 4, to Raven Software, but even the original Doom and Quake games were all first distributed under GT Interactive and now Activision.
It's about licensing, man.
And as long as the original creators own the license, they control the license.
Isn't id Software still going strong? Prove to me that it's not.
The problem i see is that you hired SOE to market your game and from what i have seen SOE sucks at marketing. You can not find a copy or EQ2 in stores or see a story about it in a magazine. EQ was the same way.
I agree with this statement. Right or wrong to have $OE publish your game, but they just plane suck at advertising and marketing. Smedly actually said he wanted a "soft launch" for SWG. They thought the name alone would draw customers. Well a name helps, but not if no one knows the game exists!
When pre-cu was successful I never saw any advertising at all, then they launch the disaster of the NGE and all of a sudden loads of adverts and interviews about the game appear. Adverts might bring players to a game, but if it plain sucks ass like the NGE, folks aint gonna stick around and pay their money. But thats $OE for you.
The problem i see is that you hired SOE to market your game and from what i have seen SOE sucks at marketing. You can not find a copy or EQ2 in stores or see a story about it in a magazine. EQ was the same way.
I agree with this statement. Right or wrong to have $OE publish your game, but they just plane suck at advertising and marketing. Smedly actually said he wanted a "soft launch" for SWG. They thought the name alone would draw customers. Well a name helps, but not if no one knows the game exists!
When pre-cu was successful I never saw any advertising at all, then they launch the disaster of the NGE and all of a sudden loads of adverts and interviews about the game appear. Adverts might bring players to a game, but if it plain sucks ass like the NGE, folks aint gonna stick around and pay their money. But thats $OE for you.
Erm... what rock were you guys under? When EQ2 was released, and for several months afterward, it was on Movie Theatre intros, TV commercials, print magazines and all over the web. Hard to think of another MMORPG that was as effectively 'put out there'.
SWG has had massive add campaigns as well.... Most notably for Jump to Lightspeed and Rage of the Wookies expansions (and yeah... that piece of crap called the NGE got a bunch of advertizing too).
EQ1 never got much advertizing but back then nobody was really 'advertizing' anything because the MMO Market was considered to be a 'niche' market. It's only recently that it's gone mainstream.
Not saying SOE is the best game designer in the world but saying they don't know how to advertize is odd, to say the least.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
PotBS shares one thing with Vanguard. Triumph or failure it won't be Sony's doing it will be the people who actually made the game.
What do you think they will do if in a meeting a representant of SOE says, for instance "We do think that the combat system is a bit too complex and that it could retract people from buying the game".
PotBS shares one thing with Vanguard. Triumph or failure it won't be Sony's doing it will be the people who actually made the game.
What do you think they will do if in a meeting a representant of SOE says, for instance "We do think that the combat system is a bit too complex and that it could retract people from buying the game".
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
I'll tell them to go to hell. Isildur won't be nearly as polite.
PotBS shares one thing with Vanguard. Triumph or failure it won't be Sony's doing it will be the people who actually made the game.
What do you think they will do if in a meeting a representant of SOE says, for instance "We do think that the combat system is a bit too complex and that it could retract people from buying the game".
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
Awww. Can't you humor us and say what you altairzq think they will do?
That answer would be more fun to read, you can't be thinking that anyone is prone to take you serious now do you?
PotBS shares one thing with Vanguard. Triumph or failure it won't be Sony's doing it will be the people who actually made the game.
What do you think they will do if in a meeting a representant of SOE says, for instance "We do think that the combat system is a bit too complex and that it could retract people from buying the game".
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
I'll tell them to go to hell. Isildur won't be nearly as polite.
The correct response would be "like you guys have done a stellar job of attracting players?"
I've been over this quite a few times already. We don't believe that there are even 5000 people who will give up a game they want to play because of who puts the boxes on shelves, and we believe there are many many more (like 10 times that number) who will only see the game because of Sony's efforts that will put us into every Best Buy, Walmart, Circuit City, Gamespot and EB Games in the country (something we couldn't do ourselves). As a business decision, it's a good trade. Sure, we'll lose a few hardcore Sony Haters. I'm sorry they feel that way, and while I respect their dedication to a three year old wrong, I'm not going to make a bad decision for FLS based on that respect.
That's good news for PotBS, since SOE has a nasty habit of taking great games and running them into the ground.
And to all doubters, yes, a company can be a publisher without having a say in development decisions. And once they have a nice fan base, FLS will be perfectly capable of severing ties with SOE if the relationship isn't in their best interest.
I've been over this quite a few times already. We don't believe that there are even 5000 people who will give up a game they want to play because of who puts the boxes on shelves, and we believe there are many many more (like 10 times that number) who will only see the game because of Sony's efforts that will put us into every Best Buy, Walmart, Circuit City, Gamespot and EB Games in the country (something we couldn't do ourselves). As a business decision, it's a good trade. Sure, we'll lose a few hardcore Sony Haters. I'm sorry they feel that way, and while I respect their dedication to a three year old wrong, I'm not going to make a bad decision for FLS based on that respect.
Theres many more than 5k that won't buy your game because of soe. I think even you know that otherwise you and your company wouldn't have done so much PR to distance yourself from soe. Why go through all that effort for only 5k people, esp. when you believe 10x that will buy your game because of soe?
BTW, calling those of us who refuse to do business with soe because of their shady business practices "haters" shows where your mind set is. I'm sure your at least somewhat familiar with what they did. Tell me something, do you think what soe did regarding swg and the implementation of the nge was ethical and above board?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Huh? What PR? All our PR has talked about how happy we are to be working with Platform Publishing. If you mean answering forum posts, well, I answer the posts that get made. And the people who don't like Sony tend to be very vocal. Personally I'd rather talk about the game.
This is hilarious. A perfect flash back of Vanguard. I know that is not Brad, and Vanguard was a different game, etc. etc.
But you have to admit that its following the same path (for lack of a better word).
All the SoE haters flaming SOE. Refusing to buy the game. Warning potential players about SoE...
Then the game developers reassuring that SoE is ONLY publishing, and will NEVER have any influence on the developement of the game. The Fanbois jumping in defending thier game. Flame wars all over the place..
You have to admit. Its a flashback with a different game name. I still wonder why anyone would want to be associated with SoE at all these days. Just having SoE attatched to the game is going to cost a company not only thier reputation to a certain degree, but also less subscribers to thier game. SoE must have one hell of a package deal.
PotBS shares one thing with Vanguard. Triumph or failure it won't be Sony's doing it will be the people who actually made the game.
What do you think they will do if in a meeting a representant of SOE says, for instance "We do think that the combat system is a bit too complex and that it could retract people from buying the game".
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
I'll tell them to go to hell. Isildur won't be nearly as polite.
This guy Rick Saada is awesome. First he'll tell them to go to hell. I like him all ready - lots! ^_^ Second, he has the courage to come on these forums and other forums(which is real gutsy) and just tells players like it is...he doesn't have anything to hide or mislead us with...he just tells us upfront. Third, I dislike SOE's management but you can't deny some of the funnest game to ever hit the market were from Sony...Planetside, SWG pre-NGE and Vanguard. SOE is doing us all a big favor by distributing Rick's awesome game to the masses. I don't blame him for going with Sony on this one. I also think Rick knows not to sell us out to Sony the way Brad did. I personally think Rick and his crew over at Flying Labs have put their heart and soul into this game(God it shows...they really did put a lot of attention into details and that takes people dedicated and passionate to bringing us a fun and exciting game!) and if any of you doubt Ricks commitment to this game...then why is he here on these boards and other boards answering our queries? Not many developers take the time to do that(unless they are in trouble.
These guys have been working on this for years...I think I heard about this back in the Winter of 2001 as just a rumor and I was like OMG that would be awesome a Pirate absed MMORPG. So I started looking for any information and then I found something in 2002 and have been following ever since. I dunno if a lot of you realize that avatars were not even going to be an initial part of the game at release. Rick and them listened to us players over on their forums and they finally agreed and now we have not only ships but avatars for our Pirates, Privateers and Naval Officers and such. Tell me that isn't the coolest thing. They listened...postponed the game and look at it now!
I cannot say much more NDA and all...but PotBS is first and foremost a fun - extremely fun game! I can't stress that enough...it is FUN! Thank you Rick and the rest of the Flying Labs people! I look forward to playing PotBS and look forward to PotBS as it matures - you've come a long way since 2002~! A long way!
Comments
Don't give yourself to much credit. Those that you refer to that you think you can save. You think they look at these kind of threads like something else then trolling and flaming. If they even bother to read it.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Sony own this game , if not then please explain to me why Pirates of the burning sea is on the station pass??
LOL funny stuff.
You know you just replied to a thread with the subject of explaining that... Bright one.
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
Yes very good ,
You honestly belive that , LOL , what type of developer would do that , they have been working on this for 5 years , you really think they would give up possibly thousands of subscriptions for a bit of advertising , give me a break ffs.
Station pass = FLS getting no income from monthly subs.
think about it will you , and stop trying to be an internet smart ass.
Yea yea... and Vanguard: Saga of Heroes was *not* owned by Sony Online Entertainment..
So, I've explained this several times already, but once again for those late to the party. SOE doesn't own us, however we've contracted with them to provide us with various services. This includes marketing, box & online distribution, and handling our billing. It does *NOT* include anything to do with our game servers, any game code design or development, or any decision making as to when we ship.
The fact that they are handling our billing means we are made available on the Sony Station Pass. It doesn't mean we don't get any money from the subscriptions. We're not stupid. In reality we get a much higher percentage of the subscriptions than with any other publisher we've talked too, and in fact higher than any other game I've ever heard of. Sony is taking a small percentage to cover the costs of billing, a modest amount of profit, and we get the rest. If you're a station pass holder, we get money from that too, based on how much you play our game.
So, to reiterate, being on the Station Pass has nothing to do with Sony owning you, it's a separate business transaction. Sony doesn't own us. Only a small percentage of your subsciption money goes to them, most of it goes to us.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
RickSaada: I hate to say this, but I don't even know why you bother anymore. People are either going to play this game because it's a breath of fresh air in a dwarf-infested world, or they're not because they hate SOE so much that they'll boycott any and every item associated with Sony whether it's to their benefit or not. They'll continue to see things in their comic-book view of "x is good and y is evil," and nothing anyone can say will change that.
Even if Sony were to release a handheld computer/phone/music & video player/cheese grater/bread maker/oven toaster they won't buy it, though it might mean missing out on the chance to listen to muzak and chatting with their buddies while munching on grilled cheese sammiches.
To all the others: Take off your tinfoil hats and get over it. SWG was a bloody game, it wasn't your life. YOU took the risk when you agreed to the EULA that specifically states that "On-Line Game Experience May Change." For better or worse, the experience changes. If you want to play in a static game world, buy a console (but not a PS) and play Legend of Zelda or Prince of Persia or any of the other good games that will never, ever change. Relish your memories because there was inevitably going to be a time that the game would've died anyhow. And if you've read past that cold, hard truth (and set aside your own "truthiness"), maybe you should take a look at http://archive.gamespy.com/articles/march04/galaxies/01/index.shtml which details the lead-up to the CU along with many comments by players and devs alike.
Most of you blame solely SOE, not LucasArts who owns the franchise, and certainly not your fellow players who all indicated through their vociferous forum complaints, holocron and village grinds that they wanted to be Jedi and wanted the game to be a certain way. Well, the devs delivered.
I, for one, have been looking forward to PotBS for many reasons, not least of which is the openness of it's developers, and the parrot I get when I pre-order.
Darkstar, please educate yourself a little more before you open your mouth about peoples choices and Sony. There are many other problems associated with SOE and their parent corp if you choose to at least try to understand that. SWG was a fiasco that does overshadow most of the other bad experiences of SOE, but it is by far not the only one. Sony has a bad reputation for a reason and it isn't just SWG.
PotBS might turn out to be something great, but all history of SOE is going against it. There is no reason to just assume it will be anything good just because it doesn't have elves and orcs. I fault no one for having a weary eye at best. I commend those who stick to their convictions to not support a company they do not approve of their actions. The same I commend Rick for facing the public even though Sigil burned up any credibility his words might have had (by no fault of his own mind you).
Though I'll never buy his game, ever, I commend Rick Saada and the other devs too for coming forward and taking the heat. Nothing personal against them. It might be good if soe had devs like this.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Wow, Rick, you are one of the most patient people on this planet. I can not believe you are actually replying to all the stupid comments. But don't worry, all the people who take time to reply in this thread will be buying the game no matter what they say. For some reason they can't just wait till release and see for themselves if the game is good.
Sorry to break it to you but very few of SOE's current MMO's could be declared successful except their flagship EQ2. You can be sure SOE isn't going to give a care wether Pirates of the Burning Sea is successful or not, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if SOE helped ruin the game by providing less than mediocre customer support and marketing.
Dont bother putting facts in or anything. Nothing can sway those that are SOE Haters, certainly not mere facts.
If SOE is even mentioned in the same sentance as a game the Haters get out of their computer chairs (Finally) grab a Red Bull (or fill in energy drink of your choice) and get the the hate typing.
I love SOE, they created my most loved game, and i hope that they help to promote your game and get it out there for everyone. The problem i see is that you hired SOE to market your game and from what i have seen SOE sucks at marketing. You can not find a copy or EQ2 in stores or see a story about it in a magazine. EQ was the same way. You should have gotten Blizzard, they can get millions of people to play a game that really isnt that good.
The fact of the matter is, as many of the higher-ups within FLS have said, is that they chose SOE simply because SOE will NOT impose their will over FLS, and will not have any control over the actual content of the game aside from billing, marketing, and distribution.
As Russel Williams said, they shopped long and hard looking for a distributor who would agree to their terms, ON their terms. That is, FLS takes care of the development, customer service, and server maintenance.
I'm truly sorry that what you believe doesn't jive with what the owners of FLS are saying will happen. It's your choice.
Many of you may point to the fact that Vanguard failed, but some (or none) of you fail to realize is that Brad McQuaid kept looking for investors, Microsoft was interested but they pulled out because of what they didn't like. Sigil promised the moon and delivered a meteorite. That was all Sigil's fault. Not SOE's. SOE gave them money, and they did what any other company would do when Sigil defaulted on the loans; they bought them out. Then they pushed Vanguard because, well, admittedly, they didn't learn from their own mistakes. And Vanguard was under development for what, two years? (I'm just going by the forum commentary here, haven't actually played the game....).
But isn't Vanguard still going? Instead of bombing it's going and maybe it might be decent to play. Some people still play it (believe it or not).
That's an entirely different situation to what's happening with FLS who have been developing their game for over five years, and listening to the community. Avatar combat wasn't part of the original plan; but as soon as people started comparing it to EvE Online in that you couldn't leave your ship, some started to lose interest. That's a case of the devs listening to the community. (Many of whom are rabid to see this game).
And yet, people point to the constant push-back of release dates as something SOE dictated. Well, no. It's something the game community wanted, so FLS put it in.
As far as analogies go, if I grow tomatoes as an independent farmer, I have three choices.
1) I can let you come to me, in which case I have to depend not only on word of mouth and your willingness to come to me, but also I will have to set up the retail aspect of it as well. I will have to sell it all to you myself, which means I have to hire people to sell it, rather than using that money for myself which could be better spent by buying more land and making more tomatoes.
2) If I find a large grocery chain that will label, distribute, and advertise my tomatoes then all I really have to do is keep growing tomatoes. They'll ask for more tomatoes and maybe they'll ask for other crops such as corn. I'll still be making tomatoes, maybe more than I thought possible, but now I have the option to grow corn. I can use that option to make more tomatoes, or I can use it to start making corn, but why not do both?
3) The third option is, I can grow tomatoes and if you come to me, I still have to sell it to you myself, but I'm too busy growing tomatoes to sell it to you effectively and market my tomatoes to other people who never would've heard about the tasty juiciness. Slowly but surely I can grow a consumer-base that will only want to buy MY tomatoes, but now I can't grow corn because I don't have that option; I have to keep growing the same tomatoes but in a higher volume.
FLS has chosen option 2; that is, they've found someone to advertise, distribute, and market their product. People always want tomatoes; it's just a question of where they want it from and how it's delivered. Does it really matter which company trucks them in?
In a nutshell, more people seeing your product equals more people buying your product. How many people who have recently gotten new computers will ever bother to come to these forums, and if they do, how many will read past the hate to see the truth?
Sure SOE has done some bad business practices. I played SWG and Planetside, both of which I liked immensely, but those are both SOE in-house games.
This is a completely different story. SOE is just the distributor, the publisher.
Even id Software, the beloved creator of the Doom and Quake series, 3rd-partied Hexen, Hexen 2, Heretic 2, Quake 4, to Raven Software, but even the original Doom and Quake games were all first distributed under GT Interactive and now Activision.
It's about licensing, man.
And as long as the original creators own the license, they control the license.
Isn't id Software still going strong? Prove to me that it's not.
I agree with this statement. Right or wrong to have $OE publish your game, but they just plane suck at advertising and marketing. Smedly actually said he wanted a "soft launch" for SWG.
When pre-cu was successful I never saw any advertising at all, then they launch the disaster of the NGE and all of a sudden loads of adverts and interviews about the game appear. Adverts might bring players to a game, but if it plain sucks ass like the NGE, folks aint gonna stick around and pay their money. But thats $OE for you.
I agree with this statement. Right or wrong to have $OE publish your game, but they just plane suck at advertising and marketing. Smedly actually said he wanted a "soft launch" for SWG.
When pre-cu was successful I never saw any advertising at all, then they launch the disaster of the NGE and all of a sudden loads of adverts and interviews about the game appear. Adverts might bring players to a game, but if it plain sucks ass like the NGE, folks aint gonna stick around and pay their money. But thats $OE for you.
Erm... what rock were you guys under? When EQ2 was released, and for several months afterward, it was on Movie Theatre intros, TV commercials, print magazines and all over the web. Hard to think of another MMORPG that was as effectively 'put out there'.
SWG has had massive add campaigns as well.... Most notably for Jump to Lightspeed and Rage of the Wookies expansions (and yeah... that piece of crap called the NGE got a bunch of advertizing too).
EQ1 never got much advertizing but back then nobody was really 'advertizing' anything because the MMO Market was considered to be a 'niche' market. It's only recently that it's gone mainstream.
Not saying SOE is the best game designer in the world but saying they don't know how to advertize is odd, to say the least.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
I'll tell them to go to hell. Isildur won't be nearly as polite.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
Awww. Can't you humor us and say what you altairzq think they will do?
That answer would be more fun to read, you can't be thinking that anyone is prone to take you serious now do you?
I'm so broke. I can't even pay attention.
"You have the right not to be killed"
With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
The correct response would be "like you guys have done a stellar job of attracting players?"I'll tell them to go to hell. Isildur won't be nearly as polite.
I've been over this quite a few times already. We don't believe that there are even 5000 people who will give up a game they want to play because of who puts the boxes on shelves, and we believe there are many many more (like 10 times that number) who will only see the game because of Sony's efforts that will put us into every Best Buy, Walmart, Circuit City, Gamespot and EB Games in the country (something we couldn't do ourselves). As a business decision, it's a good trade. Sure, we'll lose a few hardcore Sony Haters. I'm sorry they feel that way, and while I respect their dedication to a three year old wrong, I'm not going to make a bad decision for FLS based on that respect.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
That's good news for PotBS, since SOE has a nasty habit of taking great games and running them into the ground.
And to all doubters, yes, a company can be a publisher without having a say in development decisions. And once they have a nice fan base, FLS will be perfectly capable of severing ties with SOE if the relationship isn't in their best interest.
Theres many more than 5k that won't buy your game because of soe. I think even you know that otherwise you and your company wouldn't have done so much PR to distance yourself from soe. Why go through all that effort for only 5k people, esp. when you believe 10x that will buy your game because of soe?
BTW, calling those of us who refuse to do business with soe because of their shady business practices "haters" shows where your mind set is. I'm sure your at least somewhat familiar with what they did. Tell me something, do you think what soe did regarding swg and the implementation of the nge was ethical and above board?
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Huh? What PR? All our PR has talked about how happy we are to be working with Platform Publishing. If you mean answering forum posts, well, I answer the posts that get made. And the people who don't like Sony tend to be very vocal. Personally I'd rather talk about the game.
Rick Saada - FLS Dev & EPFBM
This is hilarious. A perfect flash back of Vanguard. I know that is not Brad, and Vanguard was a different game, etc. etc.
But you have to admit that its following the same path (for lack of a better word).
All the SoE haters flaming SOE. Refusing to buy the game. Warning potential players about SoE...
Then the game developers reassuring that SoE is ONLY publishing, and will NEVER have any influence on the developement of the game. The Fanbois jumping in defending thier game. Flame wars all over the place..
You have to admit. Its a flashback with a different game name. I still wonder why anyone would want to be associated with SoE at all these days. Just having SoE attatched to the game is going to cost a company not only thier reputation to a certain degree, but also less subscribers to thier game. SoE must have one hell of a package deal.
What do you think they will do if in a meeting a representant of SOE says, for instance "We do think that the combat system is a bit too complex and that it could retract people from buying the game".With a kind smile and sugar on top.
Clear enough I think.
I'll tell them to go to hell. Isildur won't be nearly as polite.
This guy Rick Saada is awesome. First he'll tell them to go to hell. I like him all ready - lots! ^_^ Second, he has the courage to come on these forums and other forums(which is real gutsy) and just tells players like it is...he doesn't have anything to hide or mislead us with...he just tells us upfront. Third, I dislike SOE's management but you can't deny some of the funnest game to ever hit the market were from Sony...Planetside, SWG pre-NGE and Vanguard. SOE is doing us all a big favor by distributing Rick's awesome game to the masses. I don't blame him for going with Sony on this one. I also think Rick knows not to sell us out to Sony the way Brad did. I personally think Rick and his crew over at Flying Labs have put their heart and soul into this game(God it shows...they really did put a lot of attention into details and that takes people dedicated and passionate to bringing us a fun and exciting game!) and if any of you doubt Ricks commitment to this game...then why is he here on these boards and other boards answering our queries? Not many developers take the time to do that(unless they are in trouble.
These guys have been working on this for years...I think I heard about this back in the Winter of 2001 as just a rumor and I was like OMG that would be awesome a Pirate absed MMORPG. So I started looking for any information and then I found something in 2002 and have been following ever since. I dunno if a lot of you realize that avatars were not even going to be an initial part of the game at release. Rick and them listened to us players over on their forums and they finally agreed and now we have not only ships but avatars for our Pirates, Privateers and Naval Officers and such. Tell me that isn't the coolest thing. They listened...postponed the game and look at it now!
I cannot say much more NDA and all...but PotBS is first and foremost a fun - extremely fun game! I can't stress that enough...it is FUN! Thank you Rick and the rest of the Flying Labs people! I look forward to playing PotBS and look forward to PotBS as it matures - you've come a long way since 2002~! A long way!