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LOTRO = bigger failure then Vanguard
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And how do you know this? Do you work at Turbine? No one knows the numbers as Turbine has released none. MMOGDATA is not a good source...news outlets are not a good source (800k...lol)...
So, how would you know it has double the subs of EQ2...
This is either an opinion...or your an employee...
I will believe high subs when Turbine says so...
Thanks
Openedge you don't belief even if i would provide you a link,you would come up whit another lame excuse. Proof everything whit a link to the real data? even if i do give you a link whit real data you wont belief it anyhow so thats no piont.
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
You know, maybe I'm just being silly.....
.... But I would think that causing its developer to go into financial insolvency would be a pretty unambigious qualification for Vanguard being the bigger failure.
And how do you know this? Do you work at Turbine? No one knows the numbers as Turbine has released none. MMOGDATA is not a good source...news outlets are not a good source (800k...lol)...
So, how would you know it has double the subs of EQ2...
This is either an opinion...or your an employee...
I will believe high subs when Turbine says so...
Thanks
(PS:Almost forgot...LOTRO is NOWHERE near WoW's competitor...to compete you have to be close...that is competition...and there is no way that LOTRO even has a million subs....sorry...now Lineage 2? believe it or not is a competitor...just check their Asian numbers...wow...nice stuff...go L2)
Wow openedge1 you are SUCH a LOTRO hater.
Why? I've seen you pop up all over the LOTRO forums spitting trash and drinking haterade.
Why? Did the game hurt you that badly?
Oh yeah, and anyone who think Vanguard is doing better then LOTRO needs to have their head examined. Personal likes/dislikes either way, doesn't matter, that's all opinion.
This topic is a joke.
The title of the thread is such an obvious piece of Troll bait.
Somewhere on the lotro forums a guy said this (not sure were sorry, i think on the arkenstone forums) that the ppl who are happy and enjoying a game don't post too much, because they want to enjoy it, but the ppl who hate it, complain and whine and troll the forums, saying the game is garbage, for something to do, and then the devs listen to the whiners, and they destroy the game (take swg for e.g.)
Every time I see this thread pop up, I want to do mean things to the OP!
I've played both games. So far, I've played Vanguard more than LotRO and I still believe LotRO is, hands down, the better game.
Vanguard has some good points to it. The huge open landscape is one. Ships and a variety of mounts are another. Detailed crafting was cool making players go through each step of the process instead of click on recipe and then click on how many of that item you want to make like in other MMOs including LotRO. I also liked what they did in crafting in that items made to gain experience are not part of the world economy. Materials used to craft items is given by the crafting quest giver and finished items are given back upon completion of quest. This means crafters aren't stuck making useless crap and wasting valuable resources for items no other player in the game would buy. LotRO still suffers from this. Non instancing is ALWAYS a plus. Vanguard even has non instanced housing areas and while LotRO does not, it's neighborhoods are more nicely designed than the ones in VG.
But apart from these features, VG Is a standard MMO. Not much different from WoW or LotRO for that matter. I've played all three actually and I felt the same in each game. Here is my character who advances via a level system. This level system requires experience that I gain from killing mobs or going on quests or raiding a dungeon. Vanguard is completely the same as LotRO in this regard (except it doesn't even have raiding yet). VG might have more space and more of a variety of places to level....but you are still doing just that...leveling.
LotRO simply looks and performs much better than VG. LotRO is set in a storybookish high fantasy setting and the graphics do an excellent job of conveying this. Sure, LotRO uses artificial barriers and lots of stupid invisible walls, but they win in terms of presentation. There isn't a single unused area in LotRO. Every space has a purpose unlike VG which tends to have a lot of space but nothing much to do in them other than random mob killing.
LotRO also wins in immersion. Yes, there are the so called boring quests like delivering mail. But those quests are about teaching people the lay of the land and also reflects the peaceful and mundane lifestyle of the folks of The Shire. You are helping them and that, in turn, gets you favor with the local populace. It is so cool to go into any town and have the NPCs say hello to me or remind me by thanking me for whatever quest I did for them. NPCs dance, hold conversations with each other, walk around, do stuff. In VG, most NPCs just stand in one spot. In both cases, NPCs are nothing more than graphical text menus, but at least Turbine made the effort to animate them. I could go on and on but I have to say how impressed I am with the overall look of ME. It is absolutely beautiful. A real testament to what can be done with great texture work as it uses a similar low poly engine like WoW but DOES NOT look cartoonish at all.
I liked both games but simply put LotRO ran better on my machine and looks better than Vanguard. So why play Vanguard? In each game, I have to level a character. Do I want to do it in a generic fantasy world backed by a publisher who is notorious for fugging up games (EQ2, no matter how many times I tried, never pulled me in so the theory that they made it a better game is moot with me) or should I go play in a fantasy world created by the guy who set the standard for all fantasy in our modern times and backed by a developer who actually seems to be competent and doing a good job?
Anyway, like Second Life, the real reason any MALE should be playing LotRO is because...as far as MMOs go, that's where the femmes are!
Currently playing: No MMOs. They all suck.
I find the people who state "anyone who agrees with OP is insane" or "they dont know what they are talking about" quite hillarious
Do you think I posted this on the happy little LOTRO fourm for no reason?
I posted it here figuring I would get a turn out of 90% VG and 10% LOTRO, but it has done much better then that....you know why?
LOTRO is a linear easy noobied up game, with no depth, and easy endgame.
I followed LOTRO for years and years, and beta tested, and the release sucked. In fact I found bugs in starting zones that I had found in beta 2....all LOTRO cares about is sub numbers...and funny enough thats one of the only excuses LOTRO fans can come up with...."well LOTRO has way better numbers then VG so therefore its a better game"
LOTRO was a rushed POS at release, im sure its better now, just like VG is.
But VG released with MUCH MUCH MUCH more, and theres no denying that unless you havent played VG.
I play all ghame
Played both. Waited for Vanguard lonnnnng time.
LOTRO>Vanguard.
Although Vanguard has way more depth, what good is that when you get stuck on chunklines crossing zones and disconnected? Or warp stuck inside of docks and buildings? Or have most the crafting not worth doing because the quests gave way better stuff? Or.. hell.. theres too manythings to name.
While Vanguard has better ideas (and they do), Lotro actually finished everything to where its playable, day in, day out with little break in consistency. Vanguard cannot and probably will not ever be able to say this. And again, from someone who wanted it wo be awesome. Vanguard just has too many dead server zones and areas cause its,sad to say, TOO big for its base. When Paladins have trouble finding groups (and you know they do) because not enough people playing, you have a problem. I was a 42 Paladin, some days you log on and just sit, spam and wait.
Id rather have a loaded .22 caliber popgun than a empty .50 Desert Eagle. Sorry Vanguard.
"TO MICHAEL!"
sorry to hear that, the servers seem really lively thou now...I made a new char at 1:30 AM and seradon was medium load....and there lots and lots of people playing it seems compared to launch...everywhere I go I find people doing quests that I am, going in the same dungeons...I never have a hard time finding a group anymore, although around launch it was pretty harsh. Also server chunk zones are really really fast and u can barley tell you entered one anymore.
I play all ghame
And how do you know this? Do you work at Turbine? No one knows the numbers as Turbine has released none. MMOGDATA is not a good source...news outlets are not a good source (800k...lol)...
So, how would you know it has double the subs of EQ2...
This is either an opinion...or your an employee...
I will believe high subs when Turbine says so...
Thanks
Openedge you don't belief even if i would provide you a link,you would come up whit another lame excuse. Proof everything whit a link to the real data? even if i do give you a link whit real data you wont belief it anyhow so thats no piont.
Ok...I give...show me real PROOF. You stated because Turbine decided to start with so many houses, you did some wild math with that number and came up with the amount of subscriptions...lol...then stated it was on a page somewhere but never provided it...
NO ONE has proof of anything...they all have "opinions"
I do not doubt the fact LOTRO has more subs than EQ2...that is not the issue. But, I am called out many times on my posts, even when a link with proof and quotes exists...
But, some random guy jumps in...says LOTRO has double the EQ2 numbers ...AS FACT...(which also I have been called on, saying something was fact...)...but, because they are rooting for LOTRO, their quote is correct?
Give me a break...
Honestly...you show me a REPUTABLE site, that lists something as proof of subs...I will leave..I will never return, and so help me G. O. D...I will admit I am WRONG..
MMOGDATA is not proof
Boston Globe and their 3rd grade math is not proof
Some random forum poster is not proof...
The only proof I have so far is NPD...and this is of interest...
Sept. 2007 sales top 20
1) The Sims 2 Bon Voyage Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
2) World In Conflict - Vivendi
3) BioShock - 2K Games
4) World Of Warcraft: Burning Crusade Expansion Pack - Vivendi
5) Medal Of Honor: Airborne - Electronic Arts
6) World Of Warcraft - Vivendi
7) Guild Wars Eye Of The North Expansion Pack - NCsoft
8) Microsoft Flight Simulator X Deluxe - Microsoft
9) Enemy Territory: Quake Wars - Activision
10) Age Of Empires III - Microsoft
11) Medieval II: Total War Kingdoms Expansion Pack - Sega of America
12) The Sims 2 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
13) Company Of Heroes: Opposing Fronts - THQ
14) Command & Conquer 3: Tiberium Wars - Electronic Arts
15) Warcraft III Battle Chest - Vivendi
16) Halo 2 - Microsoft
17) World In Conflict Collector's Edition - Vivendi
18) Sim City 4 Deluxe - Electronic Arts
19) Civilization IV: Beyond The Sword Expansion Pack - 2K Games
20) The Sims 2 Seasons Expansion Pack - Electronic Arts
Something missing here...
And even more so...
Top 48 games with sales amounts
LOTRO is not even in the top 48...with the lowest selling game at 7k pieces...
But, hey, like I said...you give me that proof...and I am gone...
Cheers!
oh yeah im a pally too! lol
I play all ghame
LOTRO is an ok game, not the best I've ever played, but gotta tell you, that right there is a load 'o BS.
This game had a fantastic launch, polished, (in my experience) bug free, smooth and problem free. Remember, I'm speaking of the launch here. Do you honestly think VG had a better release than LOTRO? Seriously??
If you are speaking of gameplay, LOTRO destroys VG on that front too at release, and LOTRO has only gotten better. You know why? Because Turbine can concentrate on adding content, tweaking classes, adding skills, housing, kin halls, landmass etc. Whereas SoE has to spend all the resources they are actually spending on VG on simply trying to get the game near where it should have been at release. What has SoE added to VG? Land? Classes? No, performance upgrades so it can simply run without crashing every time you chunk.
You are out to lunch on this one my friend, I cannot think of any aspect of VG that bettered LOTRO in any way at release.
LOTRO was a rushed POS at release? Thats just flat out wrong. You may hate the game or Turbine, or whatever motivated you to make this thread, but you won't find anyone who dislikes LOTRO agreeing that the launch was worse than VG, if you do, they are delusional. I bet even Openedge1 would admit that LOTRO's launch was better VG by miles.
You posted here with this thread title because from what I've seen in this thread your a flame bait troll. You seem to think your opinion is fact and that only your hardcore playstyle counts. You've done your job give it a rest. VG is still Doing poorly (dying?), and LoTRO in comparison is still doing much better . Check the the cold hard numbers. Then go cry some more how you played a game you hated for 50 some level to get to the end game.
Some of us actually play the game for the game not just for its ending. We don't run through the content as fast as we can to get some delusional feeling of uberness so we can insult everyone else as noobs as you have over and over again in your posts. Gee no wonder no one wants to play VG if the majority of its community is anything like you.
In the end as said in many other posts those that Like LoTRO Like it, Those that hate it and Love VG have their own likes. neither is really correct its just a matter of opinion
And how do you know this? Do you work at Turbine? No one knows the numbers as Turbine has released none. MMOGDATA is not a good source...news outlets are not a good source (800k...lol)...
So, how would you know it has double the subs of EQ2...
This is either an opinion...or your an employee...
I will believe high subs when Turbine says so...
Thanks
Openedge you don't belief even if i would provide you a link,you would come up whit another lame excuse. Proof everything whit a link to the real data? even if i do give you a link whit real data you wont belief it anyhow so thats no piont.
But, some random guy jumps in...says LOTRO has double the EQ2 numbers ...AS FACT...
Were does the guy say its a fact? aigan Openedge your twisting things around to your side like you always do, do we realy need to hear more of you? or are you done now?
Playing: World of Warcraft.
Played: Lord of the Rings Online, Starwars Galaxies.
Tried: Starwars the Old Republic, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, Vanguard, Age of Conan, Aion.
As a fan of MMORPG's, Vanguard provided so much more depth, realism, and immersion than LOTRO did. I was in VG from Beta 2 - release and played the game from release until then end of April. The only reason VG could be deemed a failure is due to the performance and stability problems half the people who played the game encountered. Also, the game wasn't completed,, well levels 40-50 were a joke. 1-30 was fine for launch and it was sigils plan to work on the upper 30's content till level 50 content. for a couple months and by the time the majority of the playerbase reached 35-40ish, the content would be ready. Well, this all backfired cause alot of other problems that should have been fixed, simply weren't which resulted in the game to lose 85% of its faithful subscribers.
I purchaed LOTRO sometime in May just because I didn't want to return to EQ2 and VG, plus I wanted to see just how good the game was, since I seen a nice 85% rating. Well, when I first entered the world, I was disappointed. The game looked and played like some cheesey walt disney kiddyland game. It was Baaaaaad. I mean, I probably would have enjoyed it If I was between the age of 9-15ish, and If this was the year (((1997))) but after playing every major MMO like EQ, U.O, Asherons Call, DAOC, WoW, EQ2, Horizons, Shadowbane, FF Online, Lineage 2, VG, etc I expected a helluva lot more from LOTRO. I managed to get to level 10 without coming close to dying once. No, that's not that great of an accomlishment but I mean the game was just tooooo easy, and not challenging at all. I understand it would get harder as I leveled up, but then I seen vids of ppl taking out elite mobs solo who were in their 40's. And, most people I talked to, stated the game is not like the typical hardcore challenging MMO I'm accustomed to. It seemed alot of people playing just wanted a basic casual fun family type experience they could enjoy with their entire family, Husband, Wife, and little toddler. Of course, there is nothing wrong with that, but I cant see how this game recieved a 85% rating. It's labeled as a MMORPG, but plays as a little kids slow paced beginner rpg. Not only that, the game was definitely not completed. I heard alot of people complaining about the end game, just like with VG. There simply was nothing to do once u hit max level except for play an alt and level him up. Then these big content patches came out and people were tickled pink. Well, personally all this "new" content should have been in at launch, not 3 -5 months later. Although, Turbine did create a stable game which gave them more time to work on content. Sigil didn't have that luxory with VG..
All in all, LOTRO failed more in my eyes than VG simply because it's not a "true traditional hardcore MMORPG" compared to VG so there really shouldn't be any comparison at all. Some will agree with me, but many will disagree. Although the ones who flame and disagree with me are most likely those that can't handle a true hardcore MMO where u have to think and use strategic measures to gain victory. The ones who will disagree with me are those that enjoy breezing through an MMO while playing solo because their not a team player and they don't work well with others. Basically, the ones that were booted from groups for incompetance and red flagged/ blacklisted simply because they are horrible gamers. It's similar to how the chubby uncoordinated fat boy is always picked last for baseball, football, basketball, etc, then tells his parents why the game sucks so much..
It's not the game that sucks my friend, your the one that sucks at playing the game which is why these peons enjoy flaming something they suck at.
Rallithon Oakthornn
(Retired Heirophant of the 60th season)
I just quoted that part above because its so ridiculous it had to be held up and shared again with the community.
Well, I play neither, although, I was hoping at least one of them would be great. I feel off the LOTRO bandwagon when I played beta. I've been a beta tester in the past. The devs just ignore beta testers. I'm not even sure why there is a beta.
Vanguard was, and still is a mess. At least, LOTRO has a working product that many people play, and it receives constant dev attention. Vanguard will be losing most of its dev support just like MxO, Planetside, SWG and EQ.
I don't see how there is any doubt about who the winner is here, despite the fact both games are dull and lifeless, imo.
Were does the guy say its a fact? aigan Openedge your twisting things around to your side like you always do, do we realy need to hear more of you? or are you done now?
Simple...look at my previous posts. If the words " I " or "Me" or "I think" are not in the sentence...according to DonnieBrasco, Jackdog, Yeebo, or Sandage, then you are stating this as a FACT.
"It still has nearly double..."
Not a "I believe" or "I think"...and if a post is made, if the above words are not used...then that poster has stated it as a truth..
So, that poster stated double as he believes it is a truth...
He should have said..."I think LOTRO has double the subs that EQ2 has..."
But, hey...you guys go change the rules now...because it was someone for LOTRO..tell me your not a fanboi!
The first sentence there says it all. LOTRO works nicely, VG is still struggling to even be a working product, nevermind the gameplay, content, or anything else. VG just plain doesn't run like it should, not to mention its a, what, 20 gig download and patch to even log in?
If you were in the beta of the TWO games "Lotro, VG" then you would know Lotro was not rushed. VG is still a beta game. Things I know.. Lotro does NOT have more paying people than Eq2. I am shocked at how good eq2 is doing now. No matter when you log in theres people there. Now when their expansion comes out it should be more fun. Lotro for me was just to small and the lack of char to pick from.
Your a hater and you seem to have noticed, yet not grasped the point.
Your poll has shown that VG is considered the worse of the 2, congrats! At no time have the numbers been even close to being in favor of VG being anything but worse. Again congrats for proving 1) your wrong and 2) LoTRo is the better game even with non-LoTRO fans. If this was the victory you were looking for and your proof that LoTRO is worse of the two games then congrats you win!
PS. Ok I must sheepishly admit I was tired when I first saw the poll and thought it said which was better and voted for LoTRO so you can actually subtract my vote, yes I am such a noob!
Games are a subjective experience.. thus no one game can ever be the best or better in general.
From a corporate point of view.. I'd say lotro was more successful. I'd say that statement would be accurate.. as success in that case = box sales and retained subscriptions.
Now when you get into the subjective material which is what this poll is.. as its not for the corps.. that made the game.
The thing I enjoyed in lotro was the lore master.. It was imho such a better take on a caster that it became my main and all my other characters gathered dust.
That said... I only managed to play this game 2 months... and have never even considered resubbing to the game.
For "me" something was missing... and as time went by.. it was still missing.
Vanguard.. played the first 3 months (was in beta as well). Obviously had a lot of possibility that wasn't ever seen.
Yet SOE has improved on it.. and I have started playing it again now and then... oddly I still can say I have no desire to go back to lotro...
Does that make Vanguard a better game? No..
But lotro isn't where I felt it should be either.. so I guess I'd vote they equally suck..
In any way.. that you could say lotro is better than VG... well that would mean lotro is quite a steaming pile compared to WoW... which is why these polls are pointless (oh and no I don't play wow either.. I was just making a point).
lol @ OP
The absurdity of the OP can be summed up by noting that LoTRO isn't, by any objective measure (ie. not based on personal opinions), a failure.
Now let's look at this further...
LoTRO has enjoyed a very stable launch, relatively few bugs, none that I'm aware of being show-stoppers (like, say, mobs falling under the ground while you're fighting them; one common problem reported about VG) by many accounts. It's also enjoying overall widespread acclaim.
While who knows how much more money has gone into getting VG to a respectable state since it stumbled into retail, Turbine are actually moving forward with adding new content and expanding LoTRO.
Then there's Vanguard. The MMO that had (iirc) 30 Mil or so wasted on it by MS, as Sigil blew it all away but failed to deliver a releasable product.
As a result, Sigil was dropped, went out of business and many people lost their jobs.
Were it not for SOE swooping in to save ol' McQuaid's rolling train-wreck, VG could well have never launched at all.
Its launch was notoriously bad and bug-ridden, bad even for a MMO where buggy launches are all-too-common. It met with little, if any positive attention from media that I'm aware of. SOE themselves have even admitted the game is/was a mess and that they're performing triage, trying to clean up the mess they inherited.
Yeah... all the makings of a winner right there, let me tell ya.
So what's your entire claim based on.. Oh yeah... "VG launched with much more content!"
Three words to answer that:
Quality Over Quantity.
I'll always prefer the former over the latter. Apparently you prefer the latter.
To each their own.
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Eighteen pages of troll food........sad.
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