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Is it possible to "catch up"?
kingcam2
Member Posts: 2
in EVE Online
Hello, I am thinking about starting to play eve. There is, however, on question that I have on my mind. I would like to know if it is possible to "catch up" to people who have been playing longer in terms of skill. Now I have done some research on the skill system and know that odviously it is impossible to catch up if you purely look at the number; what I was wondering is if it is possibly to even compete with those who have been playing for longer. Or will I be permanently bound in skill (relitive to other players) by my join date?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Comments
You won't catch someone who has been playing longer than you in skillpoints. However, skillpoints != level.
Having more skillpoints, for the most part, simply allows you to do more things, equip more modules, or fly more ships. The thing to remember is that people who've been playing for years, for the most part, aren't using the majority of their SPs at any given time, because they've specialized in many different areas.
As rast said, you'll never catch someone in skillpoint, but you can be better at what you want to do than they are. Once you decide on what ships you want to fly and what it'll take to properly outfit them, figure out what it'll take to get there. There are lots of ways to be competive and effective even in the very early stages.
It will help if you know what you're aiming for. If you read up about the game (of course, you may already have) and know what it is that you want to do, then specialising in that will help you a lot.
Also, training the learning skills is very helpful to decrease those training times, as they'll benefit you in the long run.
-iCeh
Catching up with much older players is not possible in EvE Online.
Although it is possible to compete with older / higher skilled players in some areas as the previous posters have said, there are some limitations to this.
It is my opinion that EvE has a seniority bonus that limits how competitive you're going to be against much higher players. For instance, a player who has been playing for three years will always have access to better ships and modules than you. New modules and ships requiring new skills are regularly released resulting in a game that has no ceiling unlike level-based games. This player will also have access to better opportunities. Money plays an important role in EvE, and a player's earning potential is greatly influenced by the number of skill points he has and thus by the total time he has played (active account).
There is no way a group of new players could ever topple a well established alliance in 0.0 if this alliance is made of a majority of "high-level" players who work together. This is especially true if you're using comparable numbers. Of course 1,000 noobs attacking a well established 10-player corp might have the upper hand
On the other hand, opportunities abound for new players and you do not need to topple the top dogs to be successful.
Most importantly player interaction is a fundamental aspect of the game and older players can often benefit from an influx of new players. A successful operation (being combat or industrial op) require the cooperation of players from all over the skill spectrum.
Finally, EvE being a growing game, you will soon find yourself in a position where "noobs" will wonder : "when am i going to catch up with this guy ?"
Also, a player can only pilot a ship so well. It's only a matter of time until you can pilot the same ship just as well.
The others have given you the general gist. You won't have the same number of skill points or skills but you can 'catch up' to any other player if you look at what you want to specialise in.
You can, over time, train yourself up to be maxed out in all teh skills relating to some aspect of the game and therefore as the max's apply to older player too you're be just as trained up as they are.
For example - You can train piloting skills up to level 5, the guns for a ship up to 5, navigation skills up to 5 etc etc. Once you've done that you'll be at the same level (sometimes better) than someone who's been playing for a few years.
So you won't be able to match them overall but at specifics you will be on the same level. And as someone mentioned above in most situations you'll only be using a specific bunch of skills, you can only fly 1 ship at a time and use only so many modules. If you've maxed those skills out you'll be competing.
The cevat to all that is of course player experience and resources. Over time you get to know stuff and usually accumulate wealth. Both of these things often mean the all difference. But get in with a good corp and these things can be quickly remedied.
Hope that helps!
taken from here mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/153471
“EVE-online’s skill progression system doesn’t let me catch up to an older player”. The statement is both incorrect (which I will explain later) but it is also a game killing concept. Why should you be able to catch up to an older player? That implies that the older player themselves have reached a halt in progression, nowhere to go, endgame, so they may as well quit.
EVE is structured to both get new players and to also keep older players, that is why there is people still playing from the beta release in ?2003?. So try to keep in mind that when playing the game, you are not heading towards endgame, as there isn’t one.
So then the question is “what is the goal?”, the simple answer is “it’s a sandbox, so whatever you want it to be” which I admit sounds hollow. To me, the point of the game is the social aspect, everything drives you towards interacting with others, this leads to the complexity of social organization and politics. So the point is to be involved in the player driven ‘structures’ in the game. These structures can be the items from the manufactured ammo all the way up to stations and titans, or they can be the abstracts like the economy or the political organisation and wars. It is the single server persistent world allows this.
Now back to catching up to an older player in skills. Simply put, the skill tree design, the fact that skills have a maximum level, mean that you can have exactly the same number of skill points in an area as an older player. “Hold on a sec, is this not in conflict with what is said above?” Not really, due to the older player being able to have more diversity in what they can do. This allows them to explore more content in the game.
Ill try and put it as simply as i can for you.
Skillpoint wise you cant really catch up the gap is too wide.
However
To for example to fly a specific tech 1 cruiser at the best possable level you need like say as an example 5 million skillpoints just to fly that ship to its best.
Thing is you get that 5 year vet in the same ship and he wont be even more skilled than you are because he is only using the same skills you are to fly it. The rest of his 40 odd million skillpoints arer unused in that ship.
What im trying to say is that the secret to competeing on alevel palying field with vets is to Specilise in one races ships and wepons and when you decide which specilise in one ship type.
At least to begine with. Later on you can if you wish move to other ship types as you gain in experience as....Experience is greater than Skillpoints.
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
EVE is structured to both get new players and to also keep older players, that is why there is people still playing from the beta release in ?2003?.
Not quite true - in fact only just barely true.
First, you say that Eve is structured to keep older players - but in fact Eve has the biggest churn rate of any major mmo - the average subscribtion time is less than 6 months, according to CCP's own info.
There is **ONE** person that has played from beta continuously in the game (that info also from the latest econ report from CCP).
There are a lot of people (like me) that have a love-hate thing about Eve - play it for 2-3 months, off for a year. The skill system is it's biggest assett but it is also it's biggest problem, as there is no possible way for new players to ever "catch up". And because PVP is so much a part of the game (too much so, IMO), a lot of people just get tired of the constant forced pvp.
I would say the churn is based more on the fact that, as CCP readily admits, EVE is not for everyone because of your reasoning and other factors. I can't ever catch up to 4 year vets that keep playing; I also can't invent the internal combustion engine or powered flight
. The point then is to pursue goals that I find personally meaningful/entertaining, rather than chasing the level cap or the next big boss drop (not that these themselves can't be meaningful/entertaining, it's just not the model EVE is built on).
Actually the report said the average churn rate was 7 months
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
Now, lets look at your reference for your corrections due to your deep concern to find the truth.
"The average life span of an EVE character is seven months; hence it comes as no surprise that half of the characters have less than one million skill points. Another 25% of all characters have between one and ten million skill points, and the last 25% have more than ten million skill points. There are 191 characters that have more than 70 million skill points, and of those only four have 80 million skill points or more. The character with the highest number of skill points is just shy of 91 million; a loyal pilot that has been with EVE since the game began in May 2003."
so not true. average is seven months. Also there is nothing to say that there are other subscribers that have been playing since May 2003, as they could have made an alt and lost training on their main.
But that is just pedantry and doesn't refer to the structure of the skill system or that it is designed to give older players things to do and retain them. How effective eve is at keeping players is another story. The oportunity exists, but that doesn't mean that every player who tries the game will take it up. some, like you, will find the long term view of the game hateful. Then there are the others that realize after a month or two that it is not the game for them, but then CCP has never intended to make a game for everyone.
Do you have some stats to back up the "biggest churn rate" statement? I am curious and would like to see the average longevety of a MMORPG.
As to your statement about people being tired of forced PvP, i don't deny it, but forced PvP is exactly why I still play after 2 years, and I play a carebear.
op plz be more specific what u mean whit
catch up on what ???in eve train all skill to lvl 5 give more that 420 000 000 skill points and that are over 30 years of game play
BestSigEver :P
In skill, you aren't bound. It's not the other players that keep you from accomplishing your goals, it's you.
It's not even playtime that keeps you from accomplishing something, it's just you.
EVE is very truly a sandbox, in that it requires people to gain motivation for themselves, thus the high 'churn' rate. I know this applies to myself, too, as I've only just come off a year-long hiatus (kept the account running most of the time, though), when I couldn't think of anything interesting to do.
So, I let things lie for a while. Lost a few mil in skillpoints for not keeping skills running all the time, too. Then, a friend said something that perked my interest as a possible goal to attain, and I looked it up and started working towards it (research agents and using them).
Don't worry about catching up to other players. Most of us are a helpful bunch, even the pirates. PVP isn't won by skillpoints (though they do help sometimes), and it's not the 'whole point of EVE' like some would have you believe.
The quick and simple non-BS answer, no it's not.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Actually your all wrong!
Technically you can catch up with longer serving players aslong as they do not train anymore skills and you continually train your skills.
Eventually you would catch up.
Unlikely to happen....yes
Impossible...no
As has been said, you cannot overtake someone in terms of overall skill points who has been playing longer than you and continues to train.
What you can do is catch up to a specific type of skill set.
Where the long time players have the advantage (I have about 14m skillpoints total) is more options
I can solo lvl 4s (Badly, because I suck
) Fly a Hulk for Mining, Refine my ore at the top level, carry out R&D research, fly a covert ops ship, fly a Dominix (Drone Carrying battleship) and use some Tech II drones and a wide selections of other things.
But there are players in my corp, half my SP "age" who do a couple of those things better than me.
Also keep in mind that going from lvl 4 in a skill to lvl 5 (the max) is a huge increase in time with fairly little direct benefit. (usually its +5% per level). Increasing damage on missiles (for example) between lvl 4 in all missile skills versus lvl 5 in all missile skills is not a massive edge (Its enough that if you are in the same ships going toe to toe you'll be behind) but in Eve - that rarely happens.
The key is to decide what role you want to do well, find a corp that needs that type of Talent (all of them, pretty much) and concentrate on filling out the needed skills. Eve Mon is a great skill for drawing up a training plan.
Either way, you'll have fun if Eve is the kind of sandbox you'd like to play in.
See, here's the key problem. As everyone else said, having more skill points really isn't the important part. However, this unquantifiable "player skill" is not the answer either. The answer is isk. He who controls the isk, controls the universe. Combat, mining, everything comes down to whoever has the most expendable isk to throw down. Now, the solution to this would simply be, well go out and get yourself a bunch of isk, right? Except all the major and even average methods of bringing in isk are locked down by a scant few corporations. Leaving you essentially the option to try and join one of them and leech, or try skimming off the remains ultimately achieving nothing.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
The plain unvarnished truth:
You will never catch up in 'skill points'
However:
That doesn't matter because EVE is not a game where you play alone. Your skills combined with the skills of your corpmates/alliance mates are what matter. And what skills you bring to the table are what matter.
I have 21 million skillpoints on Taram. Yet a player 2 posts above me, who has 6 million fewer skillpoints than I do, can do R&D and make T2 ships and thus make a heck of a lot of isk from selling T2 equipment (or just making his own so that he doesn't have to buy them at the markups they sell for. I cannot. Therefore in one of his chosen areas he's already ahead of me. It'd take me several weeks of skill training to 'catch up' to him. He can also fly a hulk and mine like crazy... I cannot... .it would take me over 2 months to 'catch up' to him in that skill.
Likewise I know players "older" than I am who can't fly interdictors... I can... so I've surpassed them in that area.
So no, you can't catch me in skillpoints. But you can catch me in chosen professions.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
"First, you say that Eve is structured to keep older players - but in fact Eve has the biggest churn rate of any major mmo - the average subscribtion time is less than 6 months, according to CCP's own info."
My Grandfather said there are three types of lies in this world, white lies, damn lies and statistics. I would put to much stock in an average subscription when they have a free trial. I would like to know how many different people have tried Eve and then compare it to like WOW.
"There is **ONE** person that has played from beta continuously in the game (that info also from the latest econ report from CCP)."
Ok now that is just funny, but of course how many other games can say that?
"The skill system is it's biggest assett but it is also it's biggest problem, as there is no possible way for new players to ever "catch up". And because PVP is so much a part of the game (too much so, IMO), a lot of people just get tired of the constant forced pvp."
If you train all the skills that you will be using for your chosen ship and modules to there highest you will have caught up to every player even the old ones as far as your ability to use that rig. You won't be able to mine worth a damn you will have "caught up" so to speak in this aspect.
"And thus I clothe my naked villany/ with old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ/ and seem a saint when most I play the devil." Shakespeare's Richard III Act I Scene 3.
I am just gonna jump in with my 2 ISK,
I started EVE two months ago, and I am about a month from having my skills trained into being a top notch tackler for my guild. This game is confusing, frustration, and difficult to start, but if you give it a month, you can do anything you want with a good guild and some understanding of the basics.
EVEMon for the win here, specially for newbs looking for a path to gain their toons power.
Unlike other games, EVE lets you do what want, period, there is no forced good/evil (like real life), there is no limit on your toon, but let a month of gaming sink in before you commit to a toon, racial choices at the start can save you 6 months of training.
Ok, let me just give everyone a taste of what they're getting into. The game is based off isk. Entirely. If you're in empire, the only way its not going to be boring as hell for you is if having a stupidly huge amount of funds for no reason is "fun", as the missions and mining are repetative and otherwise boring. The only actual "fun" in the game comes from the PvP, however, in order to PvP, you need isk out the ass to cover your losses, which means, once again, spending forever doing the boring shit for 30seconds of fun. Sounds like good times doesn't it? It's even better when you toss in demanding hours, the fact that solo, you WILL get ganked in low sec because gank squads fly in groups, meaning hope you have time for a long haul to get one together yourself to do anything, thats assuming you survive the numerous gate camps in the first place.
But hey, there's always the friendly and entertaining community.....which is the largest grouping of aholes I've ever seen. Seriously, all I ever have to do to remind myself of why I hate this game when I get the urge to play again is visit the forums for a short while and watch the "carebare vs 0.0" wars with people <Mod edit> about how 0.0 is the only part of Eve and how if you think different "ITS NOT FOR YOU!"
In before bawww, you're not playing it right, it's not for you, etc etc and all that bullshit.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Let say a person has been playing for 2 years....He starts as a miner, then joins a corp and becomes a tackler, then decides he wants to learn drones, quits for a few months then comes back and wants to train missiles....after 2 years his skills are spread out all over the place and he has barely reached T2 in any thing.
Can a new person catch this player ....I think so.
Let say another person is interested in industry and production and loves that part of the game. He has been playing for 3 years and only a third of his skill points are in combat.
Can a PVP oriented person catch this player...I think so.
Some players have just trained smart and have created a really strong character. You won't catch this player. Still, IMHO skill and tactics are far more important than skill points. There are so many ways to attack in this game, I think your always just scratching the surface.
Plus, as has been said before, the fact that most combat is team oriented kinda makes the point fairly mute..... unless your a lone pirate.
To the OP tho to adress the real concern of raising cash in EvE [which is where the real grind is] Well there are severall ways this can be done effectivly but so you know how i do it [not nessasarily the best way for you but its how i like to do it]. I fit a raven for level mission running with 1 tractor beam so i can loot wrecks and get rig parts while running a mission. Typically i get around 15-20 million isk per hour if im in lowsec space.
There is also 0.0 space but that requires a different setup and that is a bit off topic so if you have questions concerning this i advise you make a new topic on this if you ever read this.
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
Isk is very easy to earn in EVE once you get into it.
-mining
-missions
-production
-invention
-exploration
-salvaging
-market operations/trade
-transporting
-pirating
-scamming
-stealing ships from POS
-makeing people eject from their ship and take their ship
and the list goes on.... the only people that complain about loosing too much isk in pvp are the ones who just fit the most expensive stuff on,target,click orbit and fire guns at the first thing they see.Ive seen dirt cheap setuped ships kill full t2 ships with ease because the pilots were noobs.