Ok, let me just give everyone a taste of what they're getting into. The game is based off isk. Entirely. If you're in empire, the only way its not going to be boring as hell for you is if having a stupidly huge amount of funds for no reason is "fun", as the missions and mining are repetative and otherwise boring. The only actual "fun" in the game comes from the PvP, however, in order to PvP, you need isk out the ass to cover your losses, which means, once again, spending forever doing the boring shit for 30seconds of fun. Sounds like good times doesn't it? It's even better when you toss in demanding hours, the fact that solo, you WILL get ganked in low sec because gank squads fly in groups, meaning hope you have time for a long haul to get one together yourself to do anything, thats assuming you survive the numerous gate camps in the first place. But hey, there's always the friendly and entertaining community.....which is the largest grouping of aholes I've ever seen. Seriously, all I ever have to do to remind myself of why I hate this game when I get the urge to play again is visit the forums for a short while and watch the "carebare vs 0.0" wars with people jerking themselves off about how 0.0 is the only part of Eve and how if you think different "ITS NOT FOR YOU!" In before bawww, you're not playing it right, it's not for you, etc etc and all that bullshit.
If you hop on the waahmobile, don't be surprised when people don't agree with you.
If you go in and bash a game on its forums, or even here, don't be surprised that the community may get a 'little aggressive'. Sure, there are a-holes in EVE-O forums. Point me to a forum that doesn't and still discusses a competitive game (online or off-). If you don't have a paper-thin skin, you eventually learn to filter the idiots out.
The real people there are generally a helpful bunch, as long as you bother to try and learn things for yourself too and not just expect someone to hold your hand throughout the game. Or conduct yourself with at least a modicum of manners and respect towards the game they play and like. In other words, if everyone else seems like an a-hole to you, I suggest you look at your own manners first.
As for the real 'issues' of your post:
1) You need isk: Well, duh. You can't play EVE via getting uberitems from mob(rat) drops or quest rewards (though the mission LP system does offer some things you can't get otherwise, or things that cost prohibitively much to obtain from the market). And you lose stuff when you die.
So, you need an income, be it pirating, mining, trading, missionrunning, whatever. At least you don't need to grind exp just to be able to see what's behind the next corner, which is a plus in my book, but not necessarily in yours.
2) You can't do things solo: Well, cry me a river, a Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game you need friends in order to do things? What'll they think of next, Poker with real-money bets? Oh, they did, huh? Before EVE? Really?
There's actually a lot of stuff you can do solo: Manufacturing, mining in high-sec, trading (serious iskies to be made there if you know how), missionrunning (my primary income atm), even lowsec PVP and ratting if you don't worry about some losses and cultivate friendships with the locals in the area. You don't need to join them, but you sure as hell need to get them to be friendly.
3) They tell me it isn't for me: Well, it isn't. If the game doesn't appeal to you, if you find it boring and repetitive, and restrictive, well, guess what? You don't have to play it.
If you hate a game so much you have to visit its forums every now and then to remind yourself why you need to go to every other forum in the world to bash it, then... I don't know what to say. It's just like poking at an open wound instead of letting it heal. And then spreading the pus on the burgers you serve at the local hamburger joint.
Relax, take a deep breath, go play something else that's more your style, whatever it may be (try Star Sonata if you want a space game that isn't completely different from EVE but still isn't nowhere near like it).
And most importantly, drive your waahmobile safely (and remember to get an oilchange evero 10 000 posts) away from these forums. Thank you.
Ok, let me just give everyone a taste of what they're getting into. The game is based off isk. Entirely. If you're in empire, the only way its not going to be boring as hell for you is if having a stupidly huge amount of funds for no reason is "fun", as the missions and mining are repetative and otherwise boring. The only actual "fun" in the game comes from the PvP, however, in order to PvP, you need isk out the ass to cover your losses, which means, once again, spending forever doing the boring shit for 30seconds of fun. Sounds like good times doesn't it? It's even better when you toss in demanding hours, the fact that solo, you WILL get ganked in low sec because gank squads fly in groups, meaning hope you have time for a long haul to get one together yourself to do anything, thats assuming you survive the numerous gate camps in the first place.
But hey, there's always the friendly and entertaining community.....which is the largest grouping of aholes I've ever seen. Seriously, all I ever have to do to remind myself of why I hate this game when I get the urge to play again is visit the forums for a short while and watch the "carebare vs 0.0" wars with people jerking themselves off about how 0.0 is the only part of Eve and how if you think different "ITS NOT FOR YOU!"
In before bawww, you're not playing it right, it's not for you, etc etc and all that bullshit.
If you hop on the waahmobile, don't be surprised when people don't agree with you.
If you go in and bash a game on its forums, or even here, don't be surprised that the community may get a 'little aggressive'. Sure, there are a-holes in EVE-O forums. Point me to a forum that doesn't and still discusses a competitive game (online or off-). If you don't have a paper-thin skin, you eventually learn to filter the idiots out.
The real people there are generally a helpful bunch, as long as you bother to try and learn things for yourself too and not just expect someone to hold your hand throughout the game. Or conduct yourself with at least a modicum of manners and respect towards the game they play and like. In other words, if everyone else seems like an a-hole to you, I suggest you look at your own manners first.
As for the real 'issues' of your post:
1) You need isk: Well, duh. You can't play EVE via getting uberitems from mob(rat) drops or quest rewards (though the mission LP system does offer some things you can't get otherwise, or things that cost prohibitively much to obtain from the market). And you lose stuff when you die.
So, you need an income, be it pirating, mining, trading, missionrunning, whatever. At least you don't need to grind exp just to be able to see what's behind the next corner, which is a plus in my book, but not necessarily in yours.
2) You can't do things solo: Well, cry me a river, a Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game you need friends in order to do things? What'll they think of next, Poker with real-money bets? Oh, they did, huh? Before EVE? Really?
There's actually a lot of stuff you can do solo: Manufacturing, mining in high-sec, trading (serious iskies to be made there if you know how), missionrunning (my primary income atm), even lowsec PVP and ratting if you don't worry about some losses and cultivate friendships with the locals in the area. You don't need to join them, but you sure as hell need to get them to be friendly.
3) They tell me it isn't for me: Well, it isn't. If the game doesn't appeal to you, if you find it boring and repetitive, and restrictive, well, guess what? You don't have to play it.
If you hate a game so much you have to visit its forums every now and then to remind yourself why you need to go to every other forum in the world to bash it, then... I don't know what to say. It's just like poking at an open wound instead of letting it heal. And then spreading the pus on the burgers you serve at the local hamburger joint.
Relax, take a deep breath, go play something else that's more your style, whatever it may be (try Star Sonata if you want a space game that isn't completely different from EVE but still isn't nowhere near like it).
And most importantly, drive your waahmobile safely (and remember to get an oilchange evero 10 000 posts) away from these forums. Thank you.
1) I'm not sure how this addresses the problem put forth, being that, yeah there are ways to get money, but the rare few that earn good money require being well established in the first place, and have mostly locked out everyone else already IE: 0.0 ratting/mining.
2) I wasn't complaining about not being able to solo. I understand its not a solo game. My beef being that you need to take the time to get a squad together constantly, thus a nice time investment every time you pick up the game, because the gank squads are out in force.
3) My complaint is that its the endless mantra of the Eve forums. the exact phrase "it's not for you" has probably been posted about a million times in the past month alone, and yeah, that kind of lends to the whole elitist mentality feeling I get from the community.
The others have given you the general gist. You won't have the same number of skill points or skills but you can 'catch up' to any other player if you look at what you want to specialise in. You can, over time, train yourself up to be maxed out in all teh skills relating to some aspect of the game and therefore as the max's apply to older player too you're be just as trained up as they are. For example - You can train piloting skills up to level 5, the guns for a ship up to 5, navigation skills up to 5 etc etc. Once you've done that you'll be at the same level (sometimes better) than someone who's been playing for a few years. So you won't be able to match them overall but at specifics you will be on the same level. And as someone mentioned above in most situations you'll only be using a specific bunch of skills, you can only fly 1 ship at a time and use only so many modules. If you've maxed those skills out you'll be competing. The cevat to all that is of course player experience and resources. Over time you get to know stuff and usually accumulate wealth. Both of these things often mean the all difference. But get in with a good corp and these things can be quickly remedied.
Hope that helps!
this is kinda true. i say kinda because well...
you're going to need learning, advanced learning and cybernetic skills. get all those maxed (MAYBE forsaking charisma, if you're going to avoid all trade, leadership, corp mgt and charisma based skills).
then, you've got a lot of "generally helpful overall" electronics and engineering skills. no matter what you're flying, there's a whole lot of skills in both those categories that you will need. no matter what type of tank you'll use, you'll need SOME mechanic skills, especially if you're going to use rigs.
so, while it IS possible to get all the level 5 skills that a 3 year vet has, and to be equal to that vet in the ship of your choice -- it'll take a long time. and more and more, you're needing those level 5s to unlock new skills. they just created "heat". you need thermodynamics to actually overclock your systems to take advantage of this new system. thermo's prereq is to have energy management to lvl 5. this is a rank 3 skill, IF you gave priority to int/mem; then you'll only be training for about 10 days for this skill. odds are, if you're combat-oriented, your training time, just from lvl 1 thru 5, for energy management, will be 2 weeks. again, that's if you've spent the time to get your learning skills maxed and have either +4 or +5 implants.
however
the point is rather moot.
eve isn't a game about 1v1 engagements. it's about huge fleets fighting over systems, or, at best, a handful of combatants. you may get a number of 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1vMany fights. it's doubtful you'll see 1v1 engagements.
soooooooooo, the whole idea of "catching up" is a rather moot point.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
"First, you say that Eve is structured to keep older players - but in fact Eve has the biggest churn rate of any major mmo - the average subscribtion time is less than 6 months, according to CCP's own info." My Grandfather said there are three types of lies in this world, white lies, damn lies and statistics. I would put to much stock in an average subscription when they have a free trial. I would like to know how many different people have tried Eve and then compare it to like WOW. "There is **ONE** person that has played from beta continuously in the game (that info also from the latest econ report from CCP)." Ok now that is just funny, but of course how many other games can say that? "The skill system is it's biggest assett but it is also it's biggest problem, as there is no possible way for new players to ever "catch up". And because PVP is so much a part of the game (too much so, IMO), a lot of people just get tired of the constant forced pvp." If you train all the skills that you will be using for your chosen ship and modules to there highest you will have caught up to every player even the old ones as far as your ability to use that rig. You won't be able to mine worth a damn you will have "caught up" so to speak in this aspect.
what are you trying to say? what exactly are you quoting and are the items in quotations your quotes, with none of your words interjected?
i'm not sure what you're even for/against.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
In theory, you might become competitive with a senior player. Provided that:
a) That player skilled his/her char rather inadequate. (Which i deem rather unlikely, as I assume anyone playing the game for any lengthier period will be rather forced to skill somewhat effectively, or else be a constant 'victim'. I can hardly imagine anyone paying a monthly fee for that latter privilege, thus anyone unable to manage will probably have quit before long).
and b) you skill your char competently from the start for your niche in the game. (Again, rather unlikely. This would require you having a deeper understanding of the game mechanics and established power base, not something a new player could hope to posses. So if you indeed stumble upon an unoccupied worthwhile niche, i think you should consider yourself lucky indeed. And no, I don't consider being recruited as a zergling for some fleet blob a 'niche', I'm sorry.)
Two interesting things that would make industry more interesting.
A: Allow for a craftsmen label on ships produced.
B: Keep track of a set of statistics regarding how many ships created by you are currently fielded, and how many have been destroyed, as well as the total created.
1) I'm not sure how this addresses the problem put forth, being that, yeah there are ways to get money, but the rare few that earn good money require being well established in the first place, and have mostly locked out everyone else already IE: 0.0 ratting/mining. Not nessasarilly good money can be made n Low sec 0.3 - 0.1. What it needs tho is a corp that properly organised. Perhaps you could go and form one?
2) I wasn't complaining about not being able to solo. I understand its not a solo game. My beef being that you need to take the time to get a squad together constantly, thus a nice time investment every time you pick up the game, because the gank squads are out in force. Not sure what your trying to say here if your in a good centralised corp forming a groupe isnat hard and you could always move to an area with less or no gank squads of which there are plenty [such as Taff].
3) My complaint is that its the endless mantra of the Eve forums. the exact phrase "it's not for you" has probably been posted about a million times in the past month alone, and yeah, that kind of lends to the whole elitist mentality feeling I get from the community. Then do what most EvE palyers do and ignor the forums they are full of posers you know with very few good posters and very little forum moderation. If you would like to hear about my lovely past experiences in Eve, see http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/156630/page/2 PS: I don't drive a waaaaahmbulance, it's a bawwwcycle, much more economical.
Im going to have a read of that forum link you provided as im genuinly curious to see why you felt so done in by EvE. Who knows i may even offer to take you into my corp [currently recruiting upt 2 players]. Thats of course assuming your interested if your not fine hope you find a MMO that you enjoy.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Against my better judgment, I've hopped back into the game. I can't really do much at the moment as I'm on a laptop that can barely launch the game on vacation, but when I return I'm probably going to take a stab at Eve Uni and see if I can get some sense of direction there, maybe fail less this time. I wasn't sure at first if it was destroyed before I left but apparently I still have my cyclone and a rupture somewhere. The last skill I had set before I left opened up interceptors as well. First things first though is going to be money grinding as I left with about 2mil to my name. Fortunately I think I still have my mining equipment in the area I left off at.
Against my better judgment, I've hopped back into the game. I can't really do much at the moment as I'm on a laptop that can barely launch the game on vacation, but when I return I'm probably going to take a stab at Eve Uni and see if I can get some sense of direction there, maybe fail less this time. I wasn't sure at first if it was destroyed before I left but apparently I still have my cyclone and a rupture somewhere. The last skill I had set before I left opened up interceptors as well. First things first though is going to be money grinding as I left with about 2mil to my name. Fortunately I think I still have my mining equipment in the area I left off at.
Ahh well good luck at EvE i have heard good things concerning Eve University.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
"First, you say that Eve is structured to keep older players - but in fact Eve has the biggest churn rate of any major mmo - the average subscribtion time is less than 6 months, according to CCP's own info." My Grandfather said there are three types of lies in this world, white lies, damn lies and statistics. I would put to much stock in an average subscription when they have a free trial. I would like to know how many different people have tried Eve and then compare it to like WOW. "There is **ONE** person that has played from beta continuously in the game (that info also from the latest econ report from CCP)." Ok now that is just funny, but of course how many other games can say that? "The skill system is it's biggest assett but it is also it's biggest problem, as there is no possible way for new players to ever "catch up". And because PVP is so much a part of the game (too much so, IMO), a lot of people just get tired of the constant forced pvp." If you train all the skills that you will be using for your chosen ship and modules to there highest you will have caught up to every player even the old ones as far as your ability to use that rig. You won't be able to mine worth a damn you will have "caught up" so to speak in this aspect.
what are you trying to say? what exactly are you quoting and are the items in quotations your quotes, with none of your words interjected?
i'm not sure what you're even for/against.
Not to be condensending but you must read the whole thread before you will understand. I do have my own words in there though. Not sure how you missed them. To help the post I was quoting is on the first page.
"And thus I clothe my naked villany/ with old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ/ and seem a saint when most I play the devil." Shakespeare's Richard III Act I Scene 3.
First of all, I'm glad to hear you decided to give EVE a new try. Welcome aboard.
I'm going to answer your post since it's fairly important info for other too IMO, and because you seem to have good enough sense of humor to not be offended by my brusqueness.
Originally posted by Kordesh
1) I'm not sure how this addresses the problem put forth, being that, yeah there are ways to get money, but the rare few that earn good money require being well established in the first place, and have mostly locked out everyone else already IE: 0.0 ratting/mining.
Well, they haven't. Good money can be made in empire (lvl4 missions, even lvl5's in lowsec, where you can't be 'locked out' since there's NPC stations to dock in), and access to 0.0 isn't prohibited from new players as much as it needs planning and organization with other players.
The powerhouses in 0.0 today are wholly different from the powerhouses in 0.0 a year ago (okay, BOB still exists, but Goonswarm didn't own any space about a year ago, for instance, and RA had what, a single constellation at one time?), and getting into corps that operate under those big alliances as members or as residents just isn't as hard as it sounds to most people.
Sure, doing it requires you to actually get active on communicating with other players, and takes a bit of diplomacy to accomplish, but unless you've already managed to cultivate some sort of reputation as a scammer/altspy/notorious corpthief, you will be able to talk yourself into most corps, at least on trial basis.
Corps need new people, and some, if not most, take newbies in and teach them the ropes gladly, just to get a reliable, useful member later on. And no, joining a corp doesn't mean you have to mine 23/7 for them for a year before you're allowed into your first cruiser (at least not in any corp I've actually heard of).
And if you can't get into already established corps, hey, join up with a few other newbies and set up a corp of your own! It'll take a while, but EVE's a patient mans game.
2) I wasn't complaining about not being able to solo. I understand its not a solo game. My beef being that you need to take the time to get a squad together constantly, thus a nice time investment every time you pick up the game, because the gank squads are out in force.
Well, this is both a yes and a no. In 0.0, most systems are empty 99% of the time. This is a fact. Most low-sec systems are relatively empty too, or have 'non-agressive' inhabitants most of the time. The best mission agents live in low-sec, so there's a solid core of missionrunning players there who aren't really aggressive as long as you maintain certain civility towards them (introduce yourself etc).
I'm maybe the wrong person to talk to about this, since most of the time I'm the guy who jumps in to the game just to find there's a corp op going that I can join. Also, if I really would need help doing something (setting up manufacturing POS etc), I'm pretty confident my corpmates would help me out.
3) My complaint is that its the endless mantra of the Eve forums. the exact phrase "it's not for you" has probably been posted about a million times in the past month alone, and yeah, that kind of lends to the whole elitist mentality feeling I get from the community. If you would like to hear about my lovely past experiences in Eve, see http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/156630/page/2 PS: I don't drive a waaaaahmbulance, it's a bawwwcycle, much more economical.
(OT) Bawwcyckles are going to be the hit of tomorrow's pedalling. (/OT)
Well, yeah, it gets said a lot. That might be because it's true, and because there's a constant influx of people in EVE-O forums starting threads like 'this game sucks, I'm bored/got ganked, change this now (usually followed by some example mechanic from WoW or its ilk)', who simply do not take the time to learn what the game is about.
They get ganked the first time going through a low-sec gate, and after that low-sec is 'pirate infestation' for them. They don't find a string of quests like in other MMO's, and they're stumped for something to do.
It's just that there's literally hundreds of these threads on EVE-O and this forum. To a little more experienced player, one who asked for help on the help channel nicely, and read the 'read this'-stickies in the New Citizens forum, the answers come as rote. "Use a scout/scout alt, don't go to lowsec in your most expensive ship, decide what you want to do and then work towards it."
People get jaded, especially those who try and try again to help these people, who write up introductions, guides and tutorials, give their hard-earned ISK to a heartbroken newbie who just lost his first Iteron full of all his gear... And they just keep on coming.
The questions (Why did he kill me? Why wasn't I safe? I didn't want to fight, why did I have to?), the blame (CCP! Community! Pirates! Griefers!), the outrage. After a gross of these threads, the first response starts to resemble the one you found: 'This might not be the game for you.'
EVE has the steepest learning curve I've found in any computer game I've ever played, barring perhaps Unreal World. If you're totally unwilling to read guides, studying the infoboxes and doing the tutorials, you're going to have an awfully hard time learning everything by trial and error.
"The powerhouses in 0.0 today are wholly different from the powerhouses in 0.0 a year ago (okay, BOB still exists, but Goonswarm didn't own any space about a year ago, for instance, and RA had what, a single constellation at one time?), and getting into corps that operate under those big alliances as members or as residents just isn't as hard as it sounds to most people."
Yeah, the last time I was active was about a year ago so I would assume much has changed in regards to the power struggle. Hell, titans were still on the drawing board at the time.
"Well, this is both a yes and a no. In 0.0, most systems are empty 99% of the time. This is a fact."
I noticed this to be somewhat true during my few short adventures there. Unfortunately I didn't really take the chance to explore out there much because while my corp was encouraging me moving out there, I couldn't afford to have my ships scrapped and replace my clone, so I mostly just went to the areas I had bookmarked. There wasn't much I could find to do out there without some backup anyway though. As I said somewhere, might have been here, I quickly discovered mining out there without an escort is a very bad idea as very painful rats have a tendency to spawn when you do. Wouldn't mind giving it another shot, because honestly I would prefer not being stuck in empire, but I need to learn some ways to get decent money to fund any losses.
I'm still trying to decide if I should just go into eve uni and see if I can pick up anything new or try to find another corp. Uni might be a good idea since I'm not exactly sure what it is I want to do. I'm kind of partial to just about everything. I've got a few days before I get back to my gaming system and can actually do anything of merit anyway, so at least I have time to think.
I'm quoting you a lot since the reply page goes haywire unless I press the 'quote' button for some reason.
Originally posted by Kordesh
"The powerhouses in 0.0 today are wholly different from the powerhouses in 0.0 a year ago (okay, BOB still exists, but Goonswarm didn't own any space about a year ago, for instance, and RA had what, a single constellation at one time?), and getting into corps that operate under those big alliances as members or as residents just isn't as hard as it sounds to most people." Yeah, the last time I was active was about a year ago so I would assume much has changed in regards to the power struggle. Hell, titans were still on the drawing board at the time.
Well, D2 is gone, though much of North is still around under different alliance names, Triumvirate has risen up, IRON is in the new drone regions doing something, and BOB got seriously struck back by the Goon/RA alliance. Oh, and before that BOB ate ASCN, and Goon/RA ate LV.
That's the short of it.
"Well, this is both a yes and a no. In 0.0, most systems are empty 99% of the time. This is a fact." I noticed this to be somewhat true during my few short adventures there. Unfortunately I didn't really take the chance to explore out there much because while my corp was encouraging me moving out there, I couldn't afford to have my ships scrapped and replace my clone, so I mostly just went to the areas I had bookmarked. There wasn't much I could find to do out there without some backup anyway though. As I said somewhere, might have been here, I quickly discovered mining out there without an escort is a very bad idea as very painful rats have a tendency to spawn when you do. Wouldn't mind giving it another shot, because honestly I would prefer not being stuck in empire, but I need to learn some ways to get decent money to fund any losses.
Yeah, those days the insta bookmarks were very very important. I still have a full set for Deklein. Now, you can warp to 0, finally, and that takes much of the 'loitering around gates' away from the equation. Then again, gate camps are much deadlier, thanks to bubbles and interdictors. But it's less common to get caught in a system without a camp.
Besides, the rats in 0.0 are crunchy. The painful ones drop good loot and are worth quite a lot in bounties. But true, they make solo mining a pain, unless you have a second account alt with a combat ship to watch over you. Try getting a corpmate to rat in the system so they can warp to you and help you out if rats spawn in your belt. And, of course, fit a good tank. Local rats are always of one NPC group, which means tanking them is relatively simple.
I'm still trying to decide if I should just go into eve uni and see if I can pick up anything new or try to find another corp. Uni might be a good idea since I'm not exactly sure what it is I want to do. I'm kind of partial to just about everything. I've got a few days before I get back to my gaming system and can actually do anything of merit anyway, so at least I have time to think.
Well, EVE-U is a very good place to go to. Even when your skills come back to you and you get up to date, you may find it fun to help others. Much of what was valid a year or two ago still applies.
Plus, EVE-U has a 'graduates' corp that acts in 0.0, which might be fun for you. Also, find a goal, even if it's something unattainable (I want to build an Outpost/Titan) or something much simpler (I want to be able to pilot a Carrier/Make Inventions/Do Exploration). It'll make playing EVE much more worthwhile then just piling iskies.
Yeah I heard in passing that warp to gate was added so the insta bookmarks were sort of put aside. I think I may go the Eve Uni route. I have had past experience in the game, so I could at least offer the complete noobs something. Hearing about the graduate program makes me think its a better idea since my main concern was that there would be no action and nothing really going on other than basic training.
As for a goal I sort of have one but its kind of split. Sometimes I have the urge to focus on mining and going for the big upscale mining ops, but at the same time, having a nice combat ship appeals to me. It would also be a bit of a waste in skills considering the investments I already have in gunnery and fielding ships. I already have the skills for battlecruisers. I'm sure it will straighten itself out eventually. First thing is probably going to be raising my industrial a bit, because the randomness of mining is a bit more interesting to me than mass grinding complexes/missions *If I see one more drone hive -_-* and the big thing I need to establish first is a reliable form of income.
As for a goal I sort of have one but its kind of split. Sometimes I have the urge to focus on mining and going for the big upscale mining ops, but at the same time, having a nice combat ship appeals to me. It would also be a bit of a waste in skills considering the investments I already have in gunnery and fielding ships. I already have the skills for battlecruisers. I'm sure it will straighten itself out eventually. First thing is probably going to be raising my industrial a bit, because the randomness of mining is a bit more interesting to me than mass grinding complexes/missions *If I see one more drone hive -_-* and the big thing I need to establish first is a reliable form of income.
Well, for 0.0 mining, until you get to Hulk you're pretty much going to do better with a Dominix or an Armageddon for mining, since they can actually tank, which is something a Covetor just can't do. So it's not a bad idea to train mining skills alongside the combat skills, if you want to do both.
But what is your 'ultimate' goal? Growth goals didn't satisfy me for long, so be warned. Pick a ship, fleet role, business model, something like that you want to accomplish, and then work towards it while having fun.
You're smart for asking this question before trying EVE. I wish I asked that question before I started. That's the very reason I quit EVE. I wish I started playing EVE when it was released, it would have been fun if I could actually compete.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
Is that the real reason you quit EVE or was it because of something else Phos? I could say I quit WoW because of the cartoon graphics but its not the whole truth. You are not the first one that has stated that they quit because they can't catch up to older players, and like the others I'd be highly surprised if you said "I absolutely loved the game, but since I can't ever catch up in SP with Dr. Caymus... well good bye EVE"
You cannot catch up. You're smart for asking this question before trying EVE. I wish I asked that question before I started. That's the very reason I quit EVE. I wish I started playing EVE when it was released, it would have been fun if I could actually compete.
- Phos
You quit because you couldn't compete??? I've never had that problem.... and I've always appreciated that the game had more for me to learn and do as I got better. Probably one of the reasons I still play. I could understand if you said you just weren't patient enough to wait for better gear and equipment (Just like any game), but not being able to compete....I don't get that....thats never been a problem for me.
Originally posted by Nicoli Is that the real reason you quit EVE or was it because of something else Phos? I could say I quit WoW because of the cartoon graphics but its not the whole truth. You are not the first one that has stated that they quit because they can't catch up to older players, and like the others I'd be highly surprised if you said "I absolutely loved the game, but since I can't ever catch up in SP with Dr. Caymus... well good bye EVE"
Yes, that's the real reason I quit. In fact, I posted in these forums back in May:
Is that the real reason you quit EVE or was it because of something else Phos? I could say I quit WoW because of the cartoon graphics but its not the whole truth. You are not the first one that has stated that they quit because they can't catch up to older players, and like the others I'd be highly surprised if you said "I absolutely loved the game, but since I can't ever catch up in SP with Dr. Caymus... well good bye EVE"
Yes, that's the real reason I quit. In fact, I posted in these forums back in May:
Originally posted by Aedosen Originally posted by Phos
Originally posted by Nicoli Is that the real reason you quit EVE or was it because of something else Phos? I could say I quit WoW because of the cartoon graphics but its not the whole truth. You are not the first one that has stated that they quit because they can't catch up to older players, and like the others I'd be highly surprised if you said "I absolutely loved the game, but since I can't ever catch up in SP with Dr. Caymus... well good bye EVE"
I rarely flame people but if that really was your only reason I'm just gonna say that you missed a lot of fun for really stupid reason. That is all.
Thanks for reserving one of your rare flames for me. I'm honored.
I missed a lot of fun? Well, I guess that could depend on what you call fun, and who's fun it was.
- Getting ganked repeatedly when I left the safe space zones is probably fun... for the vets who were ganking me. - Being cannon fodder is fun... for those killing me. - Being the most worthless vessel in my corporation feels good... for those people who feel super powerful in my meager presence. - Repeatedly doing PvE missions for a few credits feels good... for those billionaires watching me spin my wheels. - Waiting 2 days for a low level skill feels good... for the vets who've got 100x more skills than me and know I haven't got a chance of ever catching up.
Yeah. Real fun.
Oh, and no offense taken, I don't mind insensitive posts from people with no empathy. I expect it as much as I expect a two year old to be selfish. It's natural.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
Is that the real reason you quit EVE or was it because of something else Phos? I could say I quit WoW because of the cartoon graphics but its not the whole truth. You are not the first one that has stated that they quit because they can't catch up to older players, and like the others I'd be highly surprised if you said "I absolutely loved the game, but since I can't ever catch up in SP with Dr. Caymus... well good bye EVE"
Yes, that's the real reason I quit. In fact, I posted in these forums back in May:
But I think you might have missed out on the real gameplay. Seriously, I've been playing for 6 months now...and I can fly a Stealth Bomber as good as anyone in the game (unless they went crazy and set all their skills to level 5) and I am extremely effective in PVP in my corp's stealth fleet. (and have been for over 2 months)
I also can fly a mean ratting Raven (Battleship) and am working on some Science skills that will soon yield me about 250,000,000 ISK a month with no effort. Recon/Assault Ships are next....
I mean, I suppose I wouldn't fare real well solo against a 2 year old player, but that would be less about skill points and more about my general lack of skill fighting in EVE....I still need lots more practice.....
The real secret is joining a good corp....they have helped guide my entire path and I couldn't have found it w/o their help.....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All I have to say Phos is the real problem is the people you played with. If your being cannon fodder then you weren't being taught how to be a small ship and not be cannon fodder. If your corp never helped you out in the isk making side of things then you found the wrong corp. The end of it is as much as you'd like to say it was never that you could catch up you did list the real reasons on why you quit. None of those have anything to do with catching up though. Even the last one you listed, Must be nice for a lowbie to see his next skill finish in 2 days with out any consideration for us vets who have to wait month+ to see a skill level finish.
A lot of your thinking is based on what you think is the thought process of the vets are. I do a lot of training with new players and I don't fly my Cal navy Raven or other expensive ships because I want to impress them. I do it because it makes it easier to keep them alive and I can survive from their mistakes easier. I don't want them with no bankroll and small ships to keep the newbie down... I do it so when they do have the money to fly something better they don't lose it to something they should have known about long before they got into that expensive ship(Perfect example).
The problem is there is a bit of a learning curve in EVE and its not the simplistic one of how to use the interface. There are tricks and tips that people in your corp should be helping you with that keeps you running with your skills. You just needed to get a better group of people to show you how to do/ work on what you want to be able to do.
Well, I too think you gave up on EVE a little too easily. But then again, the real reason was in your linked posts last line:
"I also never got into playing a ship instead of an avatar."
This particular problem has raised its head many times when I've tried to get some of my friends interested in EVE. They can't relate to the 'ship Avatar' they have, and can't really get into the game because they can't see 'themselves', the persona in the game, move about.
I never had that problem, but I'm not sure if that's because I have better imagination then they do, or worse.
There's nothing bad or wrong or shameful about simply admitting that EVE is not a game for you.
If you can't find EVE to be what you like, you don't have to play it. I don't find WoW or LOTRO to be that exciting, it's the xp grind, and the utter pointlessness of getting the next level that does it to me, and I don't play them.
Well, I played LOTRO quite a bit during its Beta, and got enough of it there, and played WoW for the grand total of four hours once with a friends account. Buut that's beside the point.
Where was I... Oh yeah, the point is, if you don't like the game, you don't have to come down to its forums to shout it down on every single thread (and I'm not talking about you spesifically, Phos, as there's plenty of others doing the same here).
However, I agree that you were obviously in a very crummy corp, or just didn't take time to get past the initial learning curve to get to the meat of the game.
I think the phrase "Getting ganked repeatedly when I left the safe space zones is probably fun... for the vets who were ganking me." shows most clearly the misconception that you managed to get yourself under by not having the proper support or trying to teach yourself and learning from your mistakes.
It's a common error, that all Low-Sec and 0.0 is a pirate-infested hellhole. While there are pirates, and gatecamps, and NBSI alliances, it's not what you can fit on a ship (or what ship you can fly) that gets you through to your destination, it's player wits, skills and social allegiances.
If you want to go to lowsec/nullsec, you need the proper identification, you need to think ahead and plan, and to have access to one or more intel channels that allow you to spot those gatecamps ahead of time, and hear about roving ganksquads before you warp right into middle of them.
Just so you understand: A hostile gatecamp is just as deadly to a three-to-four year vet as it is to a brand new newbie. If you get caught at a gatecamp, you're most likely dead. It happens, remember to update your clone. Last time it happened to me was today, and I have near three years under my belt right now.
Only difference between me and a NPC-corp newbie is, to newbie, there are no friendly gatecamps. NPC-corp ships are shot down on principle, as they are universally considered spying alts. You don't want to let one to slip past you into your space, to scout out all your POS defenses.
Man, gotta stop posting when tired, this became a wall of text.
Comments
If you hop on the waahmobile, don't be surprised when people don't agree with you.
If you go in and bash a game on its forums, or even here, don't be surprised that the community may get a 'little aggressive'. Sure, there are a-holes in EVE-O forums. Point me to a forum that doesn't and still discusses a competitive game (online or off-). If you don't have a paper-thin skin, you eventually learn to filter the idiots out.
The real people there are generally a helpful bunch, as long as you bother to try and learn things for yourself too and not just expect someone to hold your hand throughout the game. Or conduct yourself with at least a modicum of manners and respect towards the game they play and like. In other words, if everyone else seems like an a-hole to you, I suggest you look at your own manners first.
As for the real 'issues' of your post:
1) You need isk: Well, duh. You can't play EVE via getting uberitems from mob(rat) drops or quest rewards (though the mission LP system does offer some things you can't get otherwise, or things that cost prohibitively much to obtain from the market). And you lose stuff when you die.
So, you need an income, be it pirating, mining, trading, missionrunning, whatever. At least you don't need to grind exp just to be able to see what's behind the next corner, which is a plus in my book, but not necessarily in yours.
2) You can't do things solo: Well, cry me a river, a Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game you need friends in order to do things? What'll they think of next, Poker with real-money bets? Oh, they did, huh? Before EVE? Really?
There's actually a lot of stuff you can do solo: Manufacturing, mining in high-sec, trading (serious iskies to be made there if you know how), missionrunning (my primary income atm), even lowsec PVP and ratting if you don't worry about some losses and cultivate friendships with the locals in the area. You don't need to join them, but you sure as hell need to get them to be friendly.
3) They tell me it isn't for me: Well, it isn't. If the game doesn't appeal to you, if you find it boring and repetitive, and restrictive, well, guess what? You don't have to play it.
If you hate a game so much you have to visit its forums every now and then to remind yourself why you need to go to every other forum in the world to bash it, then... I don't know what to say. It's just like poking at an open wound instead of letting it heal. And then spreading the pus on the burgers you serve at the local hamburger joint.
Relax, take a deep breath, go play something else that's more your style, whatever it may be (try Star Sonata if you want a space game that isn't completely different from EVE but still isn't nowhere near like it).
And most importantly, drive your waahmobile safely (and remember to get an oilchange evero 10 000 posts) away from these forums. Thank you.
You know....this could have been the perfect intro to the new Trinity trailer.
If you hop on the waahmobile, don't be surprised when people don't agree with you.
If you go in and bash a game on its forums, or even here, don't be surprised that the community may get a 'little aggressive'. Sure, there are a-holes in EVE-O forums. Point me to a forum that doesn't and still discusses a competitive game (online or off-). If you don't have a paper-thin skin, you eventually learn to filter the idiots out.
The real people there are generally a helpful bunch, as long as you bother to try and learn things for yourself too and not just expect someone to hold your hand throughout the game. Or conduct yourself with at least a modicum of manners and respect towards the game they play and like. In other words, if everyone else seems like an a-hole to you, I suggest you look at your own manners first.
As for the real 'issues' of your post:
1) You need isk: Well, duh. You can't play EVE via getting uberitems from mob(rat) drops or quest rewards (though the mission LP system does offer some things you can't get otherwise, or things that cost prohibitively much to obtain from the market). And you lose stuff when you die.
So, you need an income, be it pirating, mining, trading, missionrunning, whatever. At least you don't need to grind exp just to be able to see what's behind the next corner, which is a plus in my book, but not necessarily in yours.
2) You can't do things solo: Well, cry me a river, a Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game you need friends in order to do things? What'll they think of next, Poker with real-money bets? Oh, they did, huh? Before EVE? Really?
There's actually a lot of stuff you can do solo: Manufacturing, mining in high-sec, trading (serious iskies to be made there if you know how), missionrunning (my primary income atm), even lowsec PVP and ratting if you don't worry about some losses and cultivate friendships with the locals in the area. You don't need to join them, but you sure as hell need to get them to be friendly.
3) They tell me it isn't for me: Well, it isn't. If the game doesn't appeal to you, if you find it boring and repetitive, and restrictive, well, guess what? You don't have to play it.
If you hate a game so much you have to visit its forums every now and then to remind yourself why you need to go to every other forum in the world to bash it, then... I don't know what to say. It's just like poking at an open wound instead of letting it heal. And then spreading the pus on the burgers you serve at the local hamburger joint.
Relax, take a deep breath, go play something else that's more your style, whatever it may be (try Star Sonata if you want a space game that isn't completely different from EVE but still isn't nowhere near like it).
And most importantly, drive your waahmobile safely (and remember to get an oilchange evero 10 000 posts) away from these forums. Thank you.
1) I'm not sure how this addresses the problem put forth, being that, yeah there are ways to get money, but the rare few that earn good money require being well established in the first place, and have mostly locked out everyone else already IE: 0.0 ratting/mining.
2) I wasn't complaining about not being able to solo. I understand its not a solo game. My beef being that you need to take the time to get a squad together constantly, thus a nice time investment every time you pick up the game, because the gank squads are out in force.
3) My complaint is that its the endless mantra of the Eve forums. the exact phrase "it's not for you" has probably been posted about a million times in the past month alone, and yeah, that kind of lends to the whole elitist mentality feeling I get from the community.
If you would like to hear about my lovely past experiences in Eve, see http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/thread/156630/page/2
PS: I don't drive a waaaaahmbulance, it's a bawwwcycle, much more economical.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
this is kinda true. i say kinda because well...
you're going to need learning, advanced learning and cybernetic skills. get all those maxed (MAYBE forsaking charisma, if you're going to avoid all trade, leadership, corp mgt and charisma based skills).
then, you've got a lot of "generally helpful overall" electronics and engineering skills. no matter what you're flying, there's a whole lot of skills in both those categories that you will need. no matter what type of tank you'll use, you'll need SOME mechanic skills, especially if you're going to use rigs.
so, while it IS possible to get all the level 5 skills that a 3 year vet has, and to be equal to that vet in the ship of your choice -- it'll take a long time. and more and more, you're needing those level 5s to unlock new skills. they just created "heat". you need thermodynamics to actually overclock your systems to take advantage of this new system. thermo's prereq is to have energy management to lvl 5. this is a rank 3 skill, IF you gave priority to int/mem; then you'll only be training for about 10 days for this skill. odds are, if you're combat-oriented, your training time, just from lvl 1 thru 5, for energy management, will be 2 weeks. again, that's if you've spent the time to get your learning skills maxed and have either +4 or +5 implants.
however
the point is rather moot.
eve isn't a game about 1v1 engagements. it's about huge fleets fighting over systems, or, at best, a handful of combatants. you may get a number of 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1vMany fights. it's doubtful you'll see 1v1 engagements.
soooooooooo, the whole idea of "catching up" is a rather moot point.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
what are you trying to say? what exactly are you quoting and are the items in quotations your quotes, with none of your words interjected?
i'm not sure what you're even for/against.
could we please get correspondent writers and moderators, on the eve forum at mmorpg.com, who are well-versed on eve-online and aren't just passersby pushing buttons? pretty please?
In theory, you might become competitive with a senior player. Provided that:
a) That player skilled his/her char rather inadequate. (Which i deem rather unlikely, as I assume anyone playing the game for any lengthier period will be rather forced to skill somewhat effectively, or else be a constant 'victim'. I can hardly imagine anyone paying a monthly fee for that latter privilege, thus anyone unable to manage will probably have quit before long).
and b) you skill your char competently from the start for your niche in the game. (Again, rather unlikely. This would require you having a deeper understanding of the game mechanics and established power base, not something a new player could hope to posses. So if you indeed stumble upon an unoccupied worthwhile niche, i think you should consider yourself lucky indeed. And no, I don't consider being recruited as a zergling for some fleet blob a 'niche', I'm sorry.)
Two interesting things that would make industry more interesting.
A: Allow for a craftsmen label on ships produced.
B: Keep track of a set of statistics regarding how many ships created by you are currently fielded, and how many have been destroyed, as well as the total created.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Im going to have a read of that forum link you provided as im genuinly curious to see why you felt so done in by EvE. Who knows i may even offer to take you into my corp [currently recruiting upt 2 players]. Thats of course assuming your interested if your not fine hope you find a MMO that you enjoy.
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
Against my better judgment, I've hopped back into the game. I can't really do much at the moment as I'm on a laptop that can barely launch the game on vacation, but when I return I'm probably going to take a stab at Eve Uni and see if I can get some sense of direction there, maybe fail less this time. I wasn't sure at first if it was destroyed before I left but apparently I still have my cyclone and a rupture somewhere. The last skill I had set before I left opened up interceptors as well. First things first though is going to be money grinding as I left with about 2mil to my name. Fortunately I think I still have my mining equipment in the area I left off at.
Bans a perma, but so are sigs in necro posts.
EAT ME MMORPG.com!
Ahh well good luck at EvE i have heard good things concerning Eve University.
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Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
what are you trying to say? what exactly are you quoting and are the items in quotations your quotes, with none of your words interjected?
i'm not sure what you're even for/against.
Not to be condensending but you must read the whole thread before you will understand. I do have my own words in there though. Not sure how you missed them. To help the post I was quoting is on the first page.
"And thus I clothe my naked villany/ with old odd ends stolen forth from holy writ/ and seem a saint when most I play the devil." Shakespeare's Richard III Act I Scene 3.
First of all, I'm glad to hear you decided to give EVE a new try. Welcome aboard.
I'm going to answer your post since it's fairly important info for other too IMO, and because you seem to have good enough sense of humor to not be offended by my brusqueness.
Well, they haven't. Good money can be made in empire (lvl4 missions, even lvl5's in lowsec, where you can't be 'locked out' since there's NPC stations to dock in), and access to 0.0 isn't prohibited from new players as much as it needs planning and organization with other players.
The powerhouses in 0.0 today are wholly different from the powerhouses in 0.0 a year ago (okay, BOB still exists, but Goonswarm didn't own any space about a year ago, for instance, and RA had what, a single constellation at one time?), and getting into corps that operate under those big alliances as members or as residents just isn't as hard as it sounds to most people.
Sure, doing it requires you to actually get active on communicating with other players, and takes a bit of diplomacy to accomplish, but unless you've already managed to cultivate some sort of reputation as a scammer/altspy/notorious corpthief, you will be able to talk yourself into most corps, at least on trial basis.
Corps need new people, and some, if not most, take newbies in and teach them the ropes gladly, just to get a reliable, useful member later on. And no, joining a corp doesn't mean you have to mine 23/7 for them for a year before you're allowed into your first cruiser (at least not in any corp I've actually heard of).
And if you can't get into already established corps, hey, join up with a few other newbies and set up a corp of your own! It'll take a while, but EVE's a patient mans game.
Well, this is both a yes and a no. In 0.0, most systems are empty 99% of the time. This is a fact. Most low-sec systems are relatively empty too, or have 'non-agressive' inhabitants most of the time. The best mission agents live in low-sec, so there's a solid core of missionrunning players there who aren't really aggressive as long as you maintain certain civility towards them (introduce yourself etc).
I'm maybe the wrong person to talk to about this, since most of the time I'm the guy who jumps in to the game just to find there's a corp op going that I can join. Also, if I really would need help doing something (setting up manufacturing POS etc), I'm pretty confident my corpmates would help me out.
(OT)
Bawwcyckles are going to be the hit of tomorrow's pedalling.
(/OT)
Well, yeah, it gets said a lot. That might be because it's true, and because there's a constant influx of people in EVE-O forums starting threads like 'this game sucks, I'm bored/got ganked, change this now (usually followed by some example mechanic from WoW or its ilk)', who simply do not take the time to learn what the game is about.
They get ganked the first time going through a low-sec gate, and after that low-sec is 'pirate infestation' for them. They don't find a string of quests like in other MMO's, and they're stumped for something to do.
It's just that there's literally hundreds of these threads on EVE-O and this forum. To a little more experienced player, one who asked for help on the help channel nicely, and read the 'read this'-stickies in the New Citizens forum, the answers come as rote. "Use a scout/scout alt, don't go to lowsec in your most expensive ship, decide what you want to do and then work towards it."
People get jaded, especially those who try and try again to help these people, who write up introductions, guides and tutorials, give their hard-earned ISK to a heartbroken newbie who just lost his first Iteron full of all his gear... And they just keep on coming.
The questions (Why did he kill me? Why wasn't I safe? I didn't want to fight, why did I have to?), the blame (CCP! Community! Pirates! Griefers!), the outrage. After a gross of these threads, the first response starts to resemble the one you found: 'This might not be the game for you.'
EVE has the steepest learning curve I've found in any computer game I've ever played, barring perhaps Unreal World. If you're totally unwilling to read guides, studying the infoboxes and doing the tutorials, you're going to have an awfully hard time learning everything by trial and error.
"The powerhouses in 0.0 today are wholly different from the powerhouses in 0.0 a year ago (okay, BOB still exists, but Goonswarm didn't own any space about a year ago, for instance, and RA had what, a single constellation at one time?), and getting into corps that operate under those big alliances as members or as residents just isn't as hard as it sounds to most people."
Yeah, the last time I was active was about a year ago so I would assume much has changed in regards to the power struggle. Hell, titans were still on the drawing board at the time.
"Well, this is both a yes and a no. In 0.0, most systems are empty 99% of the time. This is a fact."
I noticed this to be somewhat true during my few short adventures there. Unfortunately I didn't really take the chance to explore out there much because while my corp was encouraging me moving out there, I couldn't afford to have my ships scrapped and replace my clone, so I mostly just went to the areas I had bookmarked. There wasn't much I could find to do out there without some backup anyway though. As I said somewhere, might have been here, I quickly discovered mining out there without an escort is a very bad idea as very painful rats have a tendency to spawn when you do. Wouldn't mind giving it another shot, because honestly I would prefer not being stuck in empire, but I need to learn some ways to get decent money to fund any losses.
I'm still trying to decide if I should just go into eve uni and see if I can pick up anything new or try to find another corp. Uni might be a good idea since I'm not exactly sure what it is I want to do. I'm kind of partial to just about everything. I've got a few days before I get back to my gaming system and can actually do anything of merit anyway, so at least I have time to think.
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I'm quoting you a lot since the reply page goes haywire unless I press the 'quote' button for some reason.
Well, D2 is gone, though much of North is still around under different alliance names, Triumvirate has risen up, IRON is in the new drone regions doing something, and BOB got seriously struck back by the Goon/RA alliance. Oh, and before that BOB ate ASCN, and Goon/RA ate LV.
That's the short of it.
Yeah, those days the insta bookmarks were very very important. I still have a full set for Deklein. Now, you can warp to 0, finally, and that takes much of the 'loitering around gates' away from the equation. Then again, gate camps are much deadlier, thanks to bubbles and interdictors. But it's less common to get caught in a system without a camp.
Besides, the rats in 0.0 are crunchy. The painful ones drop good loot and are worth quite a lot in bounties. But true, they make solo mining a pain, unless you have a second account alt with a combat ship to watch over you. Try getting a corpmate to rat in the system so they can warp to you and help you out if rats spawn in your belt. And, of course, fit a good tank. Local rats are always of one NPC group, which means tanking them is relatively simple.
Well, EVE-U is a very good place to go to. Even when your skills come back to you and you get up to date, you may find it fun to help others. Much of what was valid a year or two ago still applies.
Plus, EVE-U has a 'graduates' corp that acts in 0.0, which might be fun for you. Also, find a goal, even if it's something unattainable (I want to build an Outpost/Titan) or something much simpler (I want to be able to pilot a Carrier/Make Inventions/Do Exploration). It'll make playing EVE much more worthwhile then just piling iskies.
Yeah I heard in passing that warp to gate was added so the insta bookmarks were sort of put aside. I think I may go the Eve Uni route. I have had past experience in the game, so I could at least offer the complete noobs something. Hearing about the graduate program makes me think its a better idea since my main concern was that there would be no action and nothing really going on other than basic training.
As for a goal I sort of have one but its kind of split. Sometimes I have the urge to focus on mining and going for the big upscale mining ops, but at the same time, having a nice combat ship appeals to me. It would also be a bit of a waste in skills considering the investments I already have in gunnery and fielding ships. I already have the skills for battlecruisers. I'm sure it will straighten itself out eventually. First thing is probably going to be raising my industrial a bit, because the randomness of mining is a bit more interesting to me than mass grinding complexes/missions *If I see one more drone hive -_-* and the big thing I need to establish first is a reliable form of income.
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Well, for 0.0 mining, until you get to Hulk you're pretty much going to do better with a Dominix or an Armageddon for mining, since they can actually tank, which is something a Covetor just can't do. So it's not a bad idea to train mining skills alongside the combat skills, if you want to do both.
But what is your 'ultimate' goal? Growth goals didn't satisfy me for long, so be warned. Pick a ship, fleet role, business model, something like that you want to accomplish, and then work towards it while having fun.
You cannot catch up.
You're smart for asking this question before trying EVE. I wish I asked that question before I started. That's the very reason I quit EVE. I wish I started playing EVE when it was released, it would have been fun if I could actually compete.
- Phos
Is that the real reason you quit EVE or was it because of something else Phos? I could say I quit WoW because of the cartoon graphics but its not the whole truth. You are not the first one that has stated that they quit because they can't catch up to older players, and like the others I'd be highly surprised if you said "I absolutely loved the game, but since I can't ever catch up in SP with Dr. Caymus... well good bye EVE"
You quit because you couldn't compete??? I've never had that problem.... and I've always appreciated that the game had more for me to learn and do as I got better. Probably one of the reasons I still play. I could understand if you said you just weren't patient enough to wait for better gear and equipment (Just like any game), but not being able to compete....I don't get that....thats never been a problem for me.
Yes, that's the real reason I quit. In fact, I posted in these forums back in May:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/125808
Yes, that's the real reason I quit. In fact, I posted in these forums back in May:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/125808
I rarely flame people but if that really was your only reason I'm just gonna say that you missed a lot of fun for really stupid reason. That is all.
Yes, that's the real reason I quit. In fact, I posted in these forums back in May:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/125808
I rarely flame people but if that really was your only reason I'm just gonna say that you missed a lot of fun for really stupid reason. That is all.
Thanks for reserving one of your rare flames for me. I'm honored.
I missed a lot of fun? Well, I guess that could depend on what you call fun, and who's fun it was.
- Getting ganked repeatedly when I left the safe space zones is probably fun... for the vets who were ganking me.
- Being cannon fodder is fun... for those killing me.
- Being the most worthless vessel in my corporation feels good... for those people who feel super powerful in my meager presence.
- Repeatedly doing PvE missions for a few credits feels good... for those billionaires watching me spin my wheels.
- Waiting 2 days for a low level skill feels good... for the vets who've got 100x more skills than me and know I haven't got a chance of ever catching up.
Yeah. Real fun.
Oh, and no offense taken, I don't mind insensitive posts from people with no empathy. I expect it as much as I expect a two year old to be selfish. It's natural.
- Phos
Yes, that's the real reason I quit. In fact, I posted in these forums back in May:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/125808/page/5
Need to fix that link of your's Phos..... its missing ' /page/5' from the end of it...... here, I'll do it for you....
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/125808/page/5
But I think you might have missed out on the real gameplay. Seriously, I've been playing for 6 months now...and I can fly a Stealth Bomber as good as anyone in the game (unless they went crazy and set all their skills to level 5) and I am extremely effective in PVP in my corp's stealth fleet. (and have been for over 2 months)
I also can fly a mean ratting Raven (Battleship) and am working on some Science skills that will soon yield me about 250,000,000 ISK a month with no effort. Recon/Assault Ships are next....
I mean, I suppose I wouldn't fare real well solo against a 2 year old player, but that would be less about skill points and more about my general lack of skill fighting in EVE....I still need lots more practice.....
The real secret is joining a good corp....they have helped guide my entire path and I couldn't have found it w/o their help.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All I have to say Phos is the real problem is the people you played with. If your being cannon fodder then you weren't being taught how to be a small ship and not be cannon fodder. If your corp never helped you out in the isk making side of things then you found the wrong corp. The end of it is as much as you'd like to say it was never that you could catch up you did list the real reasons on why you quit. None of those have anything to do with catching up though. Even the last one you listed, Must be nice for a lowbie to see his next skill finish in 2 days with out any consideration for us vets who have to wait month+ to see a skill level finish.
A lot of your thinking is based on what you think is the thought process of the vets are. I do a lot of training with new players and I don't fly my Cal navy Raven or other expensive ships because I want to impress them. I do it because it makes it easier to keep them alive and I can survive from their mistakes easier. I don't want them with no bankroll and small ships to keep the newbie down... I do it so when they do have the money to fly something better they don't lose it to something they should have known about long before they got into that expensive ship(Perfect example).
The problem is there is a bit of a learning curve in EVE and its not the simplistic one of how to use the interface. There are tricks and tips that people in your corp should be helping you with that keeps you running with your skills. You just needed to get a better group of people to show you how to do/ work on what you want to be able to do.
Well, I too think you gave up on EVE a little too easily. But then again, the real reason was in your linked posts last line:
"I also never got into playing a ship instead of an avatar."
This particular problem has raised its head many times when I've tried to get some of my friends interested in EVE. They can't relate to the 'ship Avatar' they have, and can't really get into the game because they can't see 'themselves', the persona in the game, move about.
I never had that problem, but I'm not sure if that's because I have better imagination then they do, or worse.
There's nothing bad or wrong or shameful about simply admitting that EVE is not a game for you.
If you can't find EVE to be what you like, you don't have to play it. I don't find WoW or LOTRO to be that exciting, it's the xp grind, and the utter pointlessness of getting the next level that does it to me, and I don't play them.
Well, I played LOTRO quite a bit during its Beta, and got enough of it there, and played WoW for the grand total of four hours once with a friends account. Buut that's beside the point.
Where was I... Oh yeah, the point is, if you don't like the game, you don't have to come down to its forums to shout it down on every single thread (and I'm not talking about you spesifically, Phos, as there's plenty of others doing the same here).
However, I agree that you were obviously in a very crummy corp, or just didn't take time to get past the initial learning curve to get to the meat of the game.
I think the phrase "Getting ganked repeatedly when I left the safe space zones is probably fun... for the vets who were ganking me." shows most clearly the misconception that you managed to get yourself under by not having the proper support or trying to teach yourself and learning from your mistakes.
It's a common error, that all Low-Sec and 0.0 is a pirate-infested hellhole. While there are pirates, and gatecamps, and NBSI alliances, it's not what you can fit on a ship (or what ship you can fly) that gets you through to your destination, it's player wits, skills and social allegiances.
If you want to go to lowsec/nullsec, you need the proper identification, you need to think ahead and plan, and to have access to one or more intel channels that allow you to spot those gatecamps ahead of time, and hear about roving ganksquads before you warp right into middle of them.
Just so you understand: A hostile gatecamp is just as deadly to a three-to-four year vet as it is to a brand new newbie. If you get caught at a gatecamp, you're most likely dead. It happens, remember to update your clone. Last time it happened to me was today, and I have near three years under my belt right now.
Only difference between me and a NPC-corp newbie is, to newbie, there are no friendly gatecamps. NPC-corp ships are shot down on principle, as they are universally considered spying alts. You don't want to let one to slip past you into your space, to scout out all your POS defenses.
Man, gotta stop posting when tired, this became a wall of text.