Originally posted by Finwolven ...There's nothing bad or wrong or shameful about simply admitting that EVE is not a game for you.
If you can't find EVE to be what you like, you don't have to play it. I don't find WoW or LOTRO to be that exciting, it's the xp grind, and the utter pointlessness of getting the next level that does it to me, and I don't play them.
...the point is, if you don't like the game, you don't have to come down to its forums to shout it down on every single thread (and I'm not talking about you spesifically, Phos, as there's plenty of others doing the same here).
However, I agree that you were obviously in a very crummy corp, or just didn't take time to get past the initial learning curve to get to the meat of the game.
I think the phrase "Getting ganked repeatedly when I left the safe space zones is probably fun... for the vets who were ganking me." shows most clearly the misconception that you managed to get yourself under by not having the proper support or trying to teach yourself and learning from your mistakes.
It's a common error, that all Low-Sec and 0.0 is a pirate-infested hellhole. While there are pirates, and gatecamps, and NBSI alliances, it's not what you can fit on a ship (or what ship you can fly) that gets you through to your destination, it's player wits, skills and social allegiances.
If you want to go to lowsec/nullsec, you need the proper identification, you need to think ahead and plan, and to have access to one or more intel channels that allow you to spot those gatecamps ahead of time, and hear about roving ganksquads before you warp right into middle of them.
Your post was huge, so I cropped it in this quote.
Here's the bottom line: This game is not kind to new players. You cannot catch up and/or compete with vets. Period.
I'm not trying to argue, but it's ridiculous to try to spin reality into something it is not. There's no way around it... this game is not possible for newbies to catch up to vets.
You make good points, and I hear you. I liked EVE a lot, and hated leaving it. But I didn't leave because "it wasn't my game." I left because I was a punching bag for the vets, I got gate camped almost every day and lost everything, and it was impossible for me to avoid it unless I stayed in 1.0 space and did PvE missions for ever.
Maybe the corps I was involved in were all worthless. But they were the best corps I could find. I think vets forget how much noobs need help with everything at the beginning. It's not fair to expect that much help, and vets shouldn't have that burden. The game is designed this way. I DID learn from my mistakes and maybe I should have begged and paid people to help me in nullsec. I don't remember getting much access to the intel channels and being able to anticipate gatecamps (which constantly killed me.)
I am open minded to other opinions and I like to be positive. But let's not lie to ourselves and others here: Newbies cannot catch up to vets.
It's not personal. I just hate propaganda, and this is just too obvious.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
I compete with players much older then me. I do so because once you max your skills for the ship you use it don't matter how old you are. You were in the wrong corp as experiences differ greatly.
You don't need to pvp at all until your ready.
Your not uber right away so you give up? You can make a difference in pvp very early on in EVE just don't expect your going to be some uber solo killer.
You fly Marine phrase and quit because it's not easy to be insta uber?
For noob help there are tons of good vets who help people dailey. For example try EVE University. A player corp that trains noobs. Waalaa!
I always laugh when I see ppl stuck in the wow method of gaming. In eve a high sp player can be anti-social and never do as well as a "beginner" in a good corp. The best part of eve is the fact that there is something to be lost as well as gained. If you are going to try eve than put away the idea that you have to rush to 70 ect. Every new player is usefull starting from the time you first log in the game.
You're smart for asking this question before trying EVE. I wish I asked that question before I started. That's the very reason I quit EVE. I wish I started playing EVE when it was released, it would have been fun if I could actually compete.
- Phos
You can't catch up to Bill Gates either so you might as will quit working too Phos!!
Originally posted by Trikke You can't catch up to Bill Gates either so you might as well stop working also.....
Is this a serious response? Life is not a video game. GAMES are for FUN. If you want lessons in life, start a new thread. I'd be happy to give you pointers.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
Is this a serious response? Life is not a video game. GAMES are for FUN. If you want lessons in life, start a new thread. I'd be happy to give you pointers.
- Phos
Here is a lesson for you: Buying game money with real life money is wrong and ruins the game you are playing. I can see why you didnt do very well in eve
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/10/07
Posts: 330
I agree that gold farmers ruin games and create inflation. That being said, once the inflation exists, it's impossible for an honest player to buy anything because we're so poor compared to those who buy the gold!
Because of this, I've bought gold in WoW, UO, and SWG (In fact, I was so frustrated with SWG at one point, I used to use the "Biz Natch" exploit for credits because I was so poor and inflation was so insane).
Now I factor gold-buying into my monthly gaming budget, right up there with the $15 monthly fee.
I always laugh when I see ppl stuck in the wow method of gaming. In eve a high sp player can be anti-social and never do as well as a "beginner" in a good corp. The best part of eve is the fact that there is something to be lost as well as gained. If you are going to try eve than put away the idea that you have to rush to 70 ect. Every new player is usefull starting from the time you first log in the game.
What makes me laugh is the Idea that someone would actually want to play a game where you can max out in 3 months and then do the same thing over and over and over ...........I'm sooooo glad I took the time to learn a game that has depth and that grows and changes as I do. Plus, you hit the nail right on the head with the anti-social statment. Thats whats really goin on....if you know what I mean.
Your post was huge, so I cropped it in this quote. Here's the bottom line: This game is not kind to new players. You cannot catch up and/or compete with vets. Period. I'm not trying to argue, but it's ridiculous to try to spin reality into something it is not. There's no way around it... this game is not possible for newbies to catch up to vets.
Well, I caught up... When I started I had two years plus to catch up to. Guess what, now I'm all caught up, and even the people who still play from when I started aren't (to my eye) so much more awe-inspiring then me or any other player. Sure, I'm not 'caught up' in SP, but I fly the same ships, use the same modules, and do it just as well as they.
I can't diversify yet, but I'm reaching out to science since my char has relatively high int/mem ratio (poorly made first combat char, but I don't care, it's me now).
You make good points, and I hear you. I liked EVE a lot, and hated leaving it. But I didn't leave because "it wasn't my game." I left because I was a punching bag for the vets, I got gate camped almost every day and lost everything, and it was impossible for me to avoid it unless I stayed in 1.0 space and did PvE missions for ever. Maybe the corps I was involved in were all worthless. But they were the best corps I could find. I think vets forget how much noobs need help with everything at the beginning. It's not fair to expect that much help, and vets shouldn't have that burden. The game is designed this way. I DID learn from my mistakes and maybe I should have begged and paid people to help me in nullsec. I don't remember getting much access to the intel channels and being able to anticipate gatecamps (which constantly killed me.) I am open minded to other opinions and I like to be positive. But let's not lie to ourselves and others here: Newbies cannot catch up to vets. It's not personal. I just hate propaganda, and this is just too obvious. - Phos
Well, I thank you for being reasonable about my responses, as I try to be reasonable back. I generally hate untrue blanket statements, which I find "you cannot catch up ever. Period." be. That's to me more propaganda then my measured response.
I agree with you that a new player needs all the help they can get. However, a new player in EVE does get thrown into the deep end to sink or swim. I swam, or at least learned not to breathe when my mouth was under water.
Learning the 'basics' in EVE requires the quintessential newbie to be active in finding the information beyond the tutorials, be it from corp chat, 'help' chat (a very good, if spammy, source of hints and information), EVE-O forums (again, spammy but good, read the stickies), online manuals for everything from PVP to pirating to minining (Hedvigs mining guide is one of the best I've ever read). It also takes a good bit of time and patience, something often lacking in todays new players. It's why EVE grows steadily and slowly instead of leapfrogging into fame like WoW or LOTRO.
If your corp did lowsec or 0.0 ops without any practical intel, or without access to the locals own intel channel, there might have been the problem that you were 'red' to all the locals, belonging to a pirating or just opposing corp in the region. That means you need to play by completely different set of rules from the ones used in 'normal' situations.
It's too bad nobody bothered really teaching you the ropes, since you clearly are articulate and well-spoken, and I think you could have made a fine addition to a small corp working a system or two under an alliance's umbrella in 0.0.
Your post was huge, so I cropped it in this quote. Here's the bottom line: This game is not kind to new players. You cannot catch up and/or compete with vets. Period.
No, EVE is not "kind" to anyone, new or old. EVE is space, cold hard and harsh space. It's not WOW and it's not EQ and it's not Guild Wars. It is, simply put: EVE. EVE is not out to be 'kind' to you. It's entirely focussed around player interaction be it cooperative or competitive. Thus it will never be "kind" to newer players. All EVE is is the Engine. That said EVE isn't particularly harsh on newer players either. The tutorials are very well done and will get a newer player into their first upgrade ships etc very nicely. It also teaches you how to contact other players and even how to begin to start looking for a player corporation to join.
As to catching up and/or competing with vets? When I started there were vets. Now I am considered a "vet" myself. So tell me? Did I catch up? Because if I did then your entire arguement goes out the window. I started EVE in Beta... didn't buy it at release.. played SWG instead. When SWG rolled the NGE I tried going to EVE again (had played a free trial or 3 back in 2005 and activated one of those.... didn't work out too well and wound up going to DAOC for a while and tried a couple other things. Then last August I came back to EVE... still had less than 1.5 million SP at the time as well.
Within a month I was in 0.0 with a really good player corp. I was flying caracals and Ferox at the time and though I wasn't a 'god' at PVP at the time I always managed a positive kill-to-death ratio.... even then. At that point, skillpoint wise... my character was about 3 months worth of SP on him. Since then, now what? 15 months later? I now have 21 million skill points fly Interceptors, Dictors, Covops, Recon, HAC and am about to unlock Command ships as well. I also fly all T1 ships for 2 races and can fit them however I like. That's about 1.5 years of skillpoints, maybe 1.6... So can a new player catch up to the vets? Am I considerd a "vet" now that I can make 70-100 million isk anytime I log in, can compete individually and in a gang in 0.0 effectively? Lead fleets in combat? Am I 'outclassed'? I don't think so. My statistics stand up as well as almost any other 'vets' statistics do and I've killed plenty of them as well.
So, I have to say: Yes, a new player CAN catch up. A new player CAN compete. A new player can't do that right out of the gate, but that is true in ANY MMORPG, not just EVE. It takes a few months to get the skills needed to survive in 0.0. Those skills are pretty simple to acquire as all it takes is a little time. While building those skills new players should be earning isk either by mining, running missions, playing the market or any number of other ways to make money.
I'm not trying to argue, but it's ridiculous to try to spin reality into something it is not. There's no way around it... this game is not possible for newbies to catch up to vets.
Actually the reality is that in this game it is possible to 'catch up' to Vets. Otherwise how do you explain how players that joined 2, 3 even 4 years after release are competing every day in 0.0? Goonswarm didn't even exist in EVE until about 1.5 years ago, now they're one of the more powerful alliances in the game. Some of the most venerable alliances in the game, true vet players, ASCN, D2, LV are GONE, destroyed by alliances/corporations that didn't exist when they started claiming their space. Destroyed, by and large, by players with far less time under their belts than those 'vets' did.
So which is reality? Your blind statement (and I say blind because you haven't played long enough to know what you're talking about) or the REALITY that every single day a 'newb' slowly changes into a 'vet' themself? The FACT that players who stick with EVE are perfectly capable of competing, first in a team, and eventually alone, with even the most veteran of veterans?
You make good points, and I hear you. I liked EVE a lot, and hated leaving it. But I didn't leave because "it wasn't my game." I left because I was a punching bag for the vets, I got gate camped almost every day and lost everything, and it was impossible for me to avoid it unless I stayed in 1.0 space and did PvE missions for ever.
This is a patent over exxageration. 1) There are no gate camps anywhere in 0.5 up to 1.0 space... unless you are in a player corp that's at war with another player corp. 2) I serioucly doubt you got gate camped "every day". Nobody is that unlucky. 3) It's easy as hell to detect gate camps. Even just using the MAP you can spot them fairly reliably. Even as a 3 month old player I easily avoided most camps (even in the dreaded N-Rael system at the time) just by checking the map and using the various statistics to determine if a gatecamp was likely in the area. At that time I didn't have a 2nd account (didn't get that till my wife decided to play)
Maybe the corps I was involved in were all worthless. But they were the best corps I could find. I think vets forget how much noobs need help with everything at the beginning. It's not fair to expect that much help, and vets shouldn't have that burden.
Actually there are very very good corporations out there who have no problem helping their new members. The game is about player interaction not npc interaction. That, in my opinion, is part of what makes EVE so great. It sounds to me like you found a corp of 'nice' guys who just were too busy with their own stuff to be bothered to truely help you. That's a shame. As has been said before failing all else EVE University is a phenomenal corp for newer players to join. They have very helpful members who love nothing more than to help new players learn the game. Anytime I recommend EVE to a new player I strongly urge them to contact EVE University immediately after finishing the new player tutorials.
And if you want to PVP? Then do EVE University, take their free classes and learn what you can, then take courses with Agony Unleashed (a player corp that teaches newer (and older) players how to compete in PVP within EVE.
But let's not lie to ourselves and others here: Newbies cannot catch up to vets. It's not personal. I just hate propaganda, and this is just too obvious. - Phos
Then stop spreading propoganda. What you are saying is completely untrue. I was a newbie once. Most members of my corporation were newbies once. None of us has been playing 'since beta' so, ipso facto: We had to 'catch up' to the vets. Thus: It can, has, and continues to be done.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I respect your opinion. You've been playing the game a lot longer than I did, so you might be right. Maybe it would have gotten better over time.
I really don't want to argue. I was just putting my experience out there from my perspective.
To be honest, I might try this game again after the expansion comes out. I enjoyed it when I played it. But as far as my opinion and experience about "catching up"... well, let's not beat a dead horse. I will concede that it is just my perspective, which is limited and has room for error.
- Phos
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
I currently play eve but I dont really care for it.... so why do I play? I can play for free using time cards, and its something to do while looking for a better game.
Dont get me wrong I loved the game the first month or so I was in it, then I decided I wanted to see more so I try to go to 0.0 ... every single spot where you go over from >0.0 to 0.0 you have a bubble of instant death so no amount of wcs will help you... I joined a 0.0 corp and its a pain to even get out to the corp ended up setting up a jump clone and jumping back and forth between empire and low sec until war dec then boom open season in my miner in high sec or log off until my timer is up for another jump clone back to 0.0 and try to rat without getting molested. In all honesty, if they got rid of interdictors I would prolly stay with the game... at least without those bubbles you can prepare a ship before you leave the station and have a chance to make it past a gate camp... either that or put some tougher rats/deadspace up in high sec so that you dont HAVE to go to 0.0 for a challenge.
BTW I hate PVP with a passion if only I had known how badly it would be forced on you in eve would have never even tried it out. (even still its better than WOW)
I currently play eve but I dont really care for it.... so why do I play? I can play for free using time cards, and its something to do while looking for a better game. Dont get me wrong I loved the game the first month or so I was in it, then I decided I wanted to see more so I try to go to 0.0 ... every single spot where you go over from >0.0 to 0.0 you have a bubble of instant death so no amount of wcs will help you... I joined a 0.0 corp and its a pain to even get out to the corp ended up setting up a jump clone and jumping back and forth between empire and low sec until war dec then boom open season in my miner in high sec or log off until my timer is up for another jump clone back to 0.0 and try to rat without getting molested. In all honesty, if they got rid of interdictors I would prolly stay with the game... at least without those bubbles you can prepare a ship before you leave the station and have a chance to make it past a gate camp... either that or put some tougher rats/deadspace up in high sec so that you dont HAVE to go to 0.0 for a challenge. BTW I hate PVP with a passion if only I had known how badly it would be forced on you in eve would have never even tried it out. (even still its better than WOW)
Hate to break it to you, but you can deploy and anchor bubbles even without an interdictor...
In the past few days I've been actively posting, I think I haven't made one thing clear at all: I'm also waiting for the next better game then EVE. There's a couple I've been keeping my eye on, but they're not in deployment or even beta stage yet. EVE has many problems, including massive blobbage-induced lag in fleet battles and completely combat-connected gameplay, which I find somewhat unsatisfying.
However, I consider it to be the best of its genre that I've found, at least for me. Alongside EVE I play in MMO betas whenever I can, to both help developers and to see if the upcoming game is something I'd like to play.
By the way, went through EC-P8R at pretty much the peak time yesterday, and the whole system was empty, two on local plus me. How amazing is that? It used to be the hotspot of the North-West Empire-0.0 tunnel.
I currently play eve but I dont really care for it.... so why do I play? I can play for free using time cards, and its something to do while looking for a better game. Dont get me wrong I loved the game the first month or so I was in it, then I decided I wanted to see more so I try to go to 0.0 ... every single spot where you go over from >0.0 to 0.0 you have a bubble of instant death so no amount of wcs will help you... I joined a 0.0 corp and its a pain to even get out to the corp ended up setting up a jump clone and jumping back and forth between empire and low sec until war dec then boom open season in my miner in high sec or log off until my timer is up for another jump clone back to 0.0 and try to rat without getting molested. In all honesty, if they got rid of interdictors I would prolly stay with the game... at least without those bubbles you can prepare a ship before you leave the station and have a chance to make it past a gate camp... either that or put some tougher rats/deadspace up in high sec so that you dont HAVE to go to 0.0 for a challenge. BTW I hate PVP with a passion if only I had known how badly it would be forced on you in eve would have never even tried it out. (even still its better than WOW)
Just stay out of 0.0 or get a scout, or travel in a gang. This is not a solo pvp game. solo=death in dangerous no security systems, that's why they label it NO security.
Plenty Low sec corps out there. Plenty high sec corps, Eve is a huge universe.
You also might want to look up another corp/alliance that better takes care of their own.
P.S. Good post by Taram. A perfect example of the types of people who you'll find in EVE. Many in my corp are ex/current Military/Law enforcement. It's lots of fun flying with a groups with tactical skill. Just don't forget there's also cold hearted pirates who want to blow you up. Take precautions. Be aware.
As for "massive blobbage lag" Lets see what Trinity does after dec 5th. It's not only new graphics, it's a whole new system in how the nodes work. There is lag for those huge blobs but it's mostly because of what they are about to do away with.
The best way to enter 0.0 is to do some reserch on it first for example over one week monitor the movment of pilots in 0.0 space and the number of ship kills using the galactic map to wrk out where the alliances are patrolling the most and where it seems the gate camps are.
After that it should be easier to work out where you can enter o.o with the best chance of avoiding the obligatory gate or bubble camps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Just stay out of 0.0 or get a scout, or travel in a gang. This is not a solo pvp game. solo=death in dangerous no security systems, that's why they label it NO security.
thats just it... I dont want pvp at all, which means just stop playing eve period... even high sec corps can have war dec on them and then your right back in forced pvp... I am primarily a solo player, log on a few hours kill some rats maybe do a mission then log off.... I dont have the time to invest in building a gang and flying around ganking ppl trying to make money off of rats or other gank squads, and frankly its not fun. I really dont want to join a blob on my day off to spend however long it takes for some fleet battle over a non existant corner of non reality.... I want a game like eq1 pre kunark god the game was awesome back then, was great to get into and just get lost... I didnt mind spending hours running across the entire continent to make a stein of moggok at level 8 then go to EC tunnel and sell it to buy a FBR or oracle robe. After all the easy mode adds went to SWG until NGE then left that... give me a game like either of those and I will jump right in.
Just stay out of 0.0 or get a scout, or travel in a gang. This is not a solo pvp game. solo=death in dangerous no security systems, that's why they label it NO security.
thats just it... I dont want pvp at all, which means just stop playing eve period... even high sec corps can have war dec on them and then your right back in forced pvp... I am primarily a solo player, log on a few hours kill some rats maybe do a mission then log off.... I dont have the time to invest in building a gang and flying around ganking ppl trying to make money off of rats or other gank squads, and frankly its not fun. I really dont want to join a blob on my day off to spend however long it takes for some fleet battle over a non existant corner of non reality.... I want a game like eq1 pre kunark god the game was awesome back then, was great to get into and just get lost... I didnt mind spending hours running across the entire continent to make a stein of moggok at level 8 then go to EC tunnel and sell it to buy a FBR or oracle robe. After all the easy mode adds went to SWG until NGE then left that... give me a game like either of those and I will jump right in.
Most people who want to completely avoid pvp and be free to rat/mine where they please just stay in a noob corp then....i've got an alt in one and I've noticed some of the folks are permanent members in it...and act like a regular corp.....
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
sorry forgot to add in previous post I did try a newb corp... you can go with an entirely untrained out of the box char to a .5 system and kill the rats all day long without them touching you... whats the fun in that?? so run missions well I am running level 3 missions in a drake but those get boring after a while... same missions over and over and over... no named loot, no named anything very boring.
True, the closest you can get to a 'no-PVP' single-player casual MMO in EVE is by staying in the starting NPC corps and never venturing below 0.5 security systems. Might get a bit boring, though.
I've still to figure out why people want to play a huge, integrated-world MMO as a single-player game. I mean, pay $15/month to play alone on the net? What's the point, really?
EVE doesn't have a main plotline you could follow, and without leaving the NPC corp and venturing into lowsec you can't even setup POSes or do anything else that's really interesting.
Dunno, maybe it's just me. Maybe others can enlighten me on why this is?
Edit: Added a missing 'In EVE' to the first sentence.
in other games I have had time for full activity with guilds and doing raids and such as that, right now though I am working a lot and doing a lot of other rl activities, and again I play for free by just doing missions and trading isk for timecards.
eve isn't a game about 1v1 engagements. it's about huge fleets fighting over systems, or, at best, a handful of combatants. you may get a number of 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1vMany fights. it's doubtful you'll see 1v1 engagements.
soooooooooo, the whole idea of "catching up" is a rather moot point.
in other games I have had time for full activity with guilds and doing raids and such as that, right now though I am working a lot and doing a lot of other rl activities, and again I play for free by just doing missions and trading isk for timecards.
Well, why don't you try trading? I've never managed to figure it out completely, but I do good enough business whenever I set my sellorders.
By the way, you've got to have the worst luck in the world if you can't get any named loot in missions. I usually get all the variations to most modules in just a few missions... Of course, this doesn't include faction loot, which is rarer (and on purpose, too!), but the occasional batch of NPC ammo, or frigate to cruiser-class gear sometimes drops in lvl3's and above. Sometimes you get lucky, and score something very valuable, such as a named cargo extender (even the non-faction ones bring in a very good price) or faction hardener/adaptive nano.
Running complexes you can sometimes find NPC officers as the 'bosses', which may drop officer loot that's not only very good, but extremely valuable. Finding a good 'plex may require some work, and potentially PVP (lowsec and 0.0) though.
You could also try manufacturing/trade combination, set up some production lines and then move the produce to the best markets. Run-up times keep you busy for a while, but you could probably figure out a way to get materials supplied through a contract with some mining corp, so you don't have to haul them yourself.
Then there's research, and running research agents, which is low-key income, but lucrative over time (you could free up some gametime by supplementing your income on datacores by an agent or two).
And lastly, there's the dreaded PVP, which can actually be fun if you don't go into it with a determination to win, but with the idea of having fun. Get a few friends together, set up a roving gang of fast T1 cruisers/T2 frigs (cheap), and go explore the mystery universe of 0.0! Just remember to clone-jump to an un-implanted clone before you go, upgrade your clone, and remember to bring plenty of ammo!
Comments
Your post was huge, so I cropped it in this quote.
Here's the bottom line: This game is not kind to new players. You cannot catch up and/or compete with vets. Period.
I'm not trying to argue, but it's ridiculous to try to spin reality into something it is not. There's no way around it... this game is not possible for newbies to catch up to vets.
You make good points, and I hear you. I liked EVE a lot, and hated leaving it. But I didn't leave because "it wasn't my game." I left because I was a punching bag for the vets, I got gate camped almost every day and lost everything, and it was impossible for me to avoid it unless I stayed in 1.0 space and did PvE missions for ever.
Maybe the corps I was involved in were all worthless. But they were the best corps I could find. I think vets forget how much noobs need help with everything at the beginning. It's not fair to expect that much help, and vets shouldn't have that burden. The game is designed this way. I DID learn from my mistakes and maybe I should have begged and paid people to help me in nullsec. I don't remember getting much access to the intel channels and being able to anticipate gatecamps (which constantly killed me.)
I am open minded to other opinions and I like to be positive. But let's not lie to ourselves and others here: Newbies cannot catch up to vets.
It's not personal. I just hate propaganda, and this is just too obvious.
- Phos
YOU CAN VERY MUCH SO COMPETE WITH VETS.
I compete with players much older then me. I do so because once you max your skills for the ship you use it don't matter how old you are. You were in the wrong corp as experiences differ greatly.
You don't need to pvp at all until your ready.
Your not uber right away so you give up? You can make a difference in pvp very early on in EVE just don't expect your going to be some uber solo killer.
You fly Marine phrase and quit because it's not easy to be insta uber?
For noob help there are tons of good vets who help people dailey. For example try EVE University. A player corp that trains noobs. Waalaa!
SHOHADAKU
I always laugh when I see ppl stuck in the wow method of gaming. In eve a high sp player can be anti-social and never do as well as a "beginner" in a good corp. The best part of eve is the fact that there is something to be lost as well as gained. If you are going to try eve than put away the idea that you have to rush to 70 ect. Every new player is usefull starting from the time you first log in the game.
You cannot catch up.
You're smart for asking this question before trying EVE. I wish I asked that question before I started. That's the very reason I quit EVE. I wish I started playing EVE when it was released, it would have been fun if I could actually compete.
- Phos
You can't catch up to Bill Gates either so you might as will quit working too Phos!!
Is this a serious response? Life is not a video game. GAMES are for FUN. If you want lessons in life, start a new thread. I'd be happy to give you pointers.
- Phos
Originally posted by Trikke
Is this a serious response? Life is not a video game. GAMES are for FUN. If you want lessons in life, start a new thread. I'd be happy to give you pointers.
- Phos
Here is a lesson for you: Buying game money with real life money is wrong and ruins the game you are playing. I can see why you didnt do very well in eve
Hard Core Member
Joined: 1/10/07
Posts: 330
I agree that gold farmers ruin games and create inflation. That being said, once the inflation exists, it's impossible for an honest player to buy anything because we're so poor compared to those who buy the gold!
Because of this, I've bought gold in WoW, UO, and SWG (In fact, I was so frustrated with SWG at one point, I used to use the "Biz Natch" exploit for credits because I was so poor and inflation was so insane).
Now I factor gold-buying into my monthly gaming budget, right up there with the $15 monthly fee.
sad.......
What makes me laugh is the Idea that someone would actually want to play a game where you can max out in 3 months and then do the same thing over and over and over ...........I'm sooooo glad I took the time to learn a game that has depth and that grows and changes as I do. Plus, you hit the nail right on the head with the anti-social statment. Thats whats really goin on....if you know what I mean.
Well, I caught up... When I started I had two years plus to catch up to. Guess what, now I'm all caught up, and even the people who still play from when I started aren't (to my eye) so much more awe-inspiring then me or any other player. Sure, I'm not 'caught up' in SP, but I fly the same ships, use the same modules, and do it just as well as they.
I can't diversify yet, but I'm reaching out to science since my char has relatively high int/mem ratio (poorly made first combat char, but I don't care, it's me now).
Well, I thank you for being reasonable about my responses, as I try to be reasonable back. I generally hate untrue blanket statements, which I find "you cannot catch up ever. Period." be. That's to me more propaganda then my measured response.
I agree with you that a new player needs all the help they can get. However, a new player in EVE does get thrown into the deep end to sink or swim. I swam, or at least learned not to breathe when my mouth was under water.
Learning the 'basics' in EVE requires the quintessential newbie to be active in finding the information beyond the tutorials, be it from corp chat, 'help' chat (a very good, if spammy, source of hints and information), EVE-O forums (again, spammy but good, read the stickies), online manuals for everything from PVP to pirating to minining (Hedvigs mining guide is one of the best I've ever read). It also takes a good bit of time and patience, something often lacking in todays new players. It's why EVE grows steadily and slowly instead of leapfrogging into fame like WoW or LOTRO.
If your corp did lowsec or 0.0 ops without any practical intel, or without access to the locals own intel channel, there might have been the problem that you were 'red' to all the locals, belonging to a pirating or just opposing corp in the region. That means you need to play by completely different set of rules from the ones used in 'normal' situations.
It's too bad nobody bothered really teaching you the ropes, since you clearly are articulate and well-spoken, and I think you could have made a fine addition to a small corp working a system or two under an alliance's umbrella in 0.0.
No, EVE is not "kind" to anyone, new or old. EVE is space, cold hard and harsh space. It's not WOW and it's not EQ and it's not Guild Wars. It is, simply put: EVE. EVE is not out to be 'kind' to you. It's entirely focussed around player interaction be it cooperative or competitive. Thus it will never be "kind" to newer players. All EVE is is the Engine.
That said EVE isn't particularly harsh on newer players either. The tutorials are very well done and will get a newer player into their first upgrade ships etc very nicely. It also teaches you how to contact other players and even how to begin to start looking for a player corporation to join.
As to catching up and/or competing with vets? When I started there were vets. Now I am considered a "vet" myself. So tell me? Did I catch up? Because if I did then your entire arguement goes out the window. I started EVE in Beta... didn't buy it at release.. played SWG instead. When SWG rolled the NGE I tried going to EVE again (had played a free trial or 3 back in 2005 and activated one of those.... didn't work out too well and wound up going to DAOC for a while and tried a couple other things. Then last August I came back to EVE... still had less than 1.5 million SP at the time as well.
Within a month I was in 0.0 with a really good player corp. I was flying caracals and Ferox at the time and though I wasn't a 'god' at PVP at the time I always managed a positive kill-to-death ratio.... even then. At that point, skillpoint wise... my character was about 3 months worth of SP on him. Since then, now what? 15 months later? I now have 21 million skill points fly Interceptors, Dictors, Covops, Recon, HAC and am about to unlock Command ships as well. I also fly all T1 ships for 2 races and can fit them however I like. That's about 1.5 years of skillpoints, maybe 1.6... So can a new player catch up to the vets? Am I considerd a "vet" now that I can make 70-100 million isk anytime I log in, can compete individually and in a gang in 0.0 effectively? Lead fleets in combat? Am I 'outclassed'? I don't think so. My statistics stand up as well as almost any other 'vets' statistics do and I've killed plenty of them as well.
So, I have to say: Yes, a new player CAN catch up. A new player CAN compete. A new player can't do that right out of the gate, but that is true in ANY MMORPG, not just EVE. It takes a few months to get the skills needed to survive in 0.0. Those skills are pretty simple to acquire as all it takes is a little time. While building those skills new players should be earning isk either by mining, running missions, playing the market or any number of other ways to make money.
Actually the reality is that in this game it is possible to 'catch up' to Vets. Otherwise how do you explain how players that joined 2, 3 even 4 years after release are competing every day in 0.0? Goonswarm didn't even exist in EVE until about 1.5 years ago, now they're one of the more powerful alliances in the game. Some of the most venerable alliances in the game, true vet players, ASCN, D2, LV are GONE, destroyed by alliances/corporations that didn't exist when they started claiming their space. Destroyed, by and large, by players with far less time under their belts than those 'vets' did.
So which is reality? Your blind statement (and I say blind because you haven't played long enough to know what you're talking about) or the REALITY that every single day a 'newb' slowly changes into a 'vet' themself? The FACT that players who stick with EVE are perfectly capable of competing, first in a team, and eventually alone, with even the most veteran of veterans?
This is a patent over exxageration.
1) There are no gate camps anywhere in 0.5 up to 1.0 space... unless you are in a player corp that's at war with another player corp.
2) I serioucly doubt you got gate camped "every day". Nobody is that unlucky.
3) It's easy as hell to detect gate camps. Even just using the MAP you can spot them fairly reliably. Even as a 3 month old player I easily avoided most camps (even in the dreaded N-Rael system at the time) just by checking the map and using the various statistics to determine if a gatecamp was likely in the area. At that time I didn't have a 2nd account (didn't get that till my wife decided to play)
Actually there are very very good corporations out there who have no problem helping their new members. The game is about player interaction not npc interaction. That, in my opinion, is part of what makes EVE so great. It sounds to me like you found a corp of 'nice' guys who just were too busy with their own stuff to be bothered to truely help you. That's a shame. As has been said before failing all else EVE University is a phenomenal corp for newer players to join. They have very helpful members who love nothing more than to help new players learn the game. Anytime I recommend EVE to a new player I strongly urge them to contact EVE University immediately after finishing the new player tutorials.
And if you want to PVP? Then do EVE University, take their free classes and learn what you can, then take courses with Agony Unleashed (a player corp that teaches newer (and older) players how to compete in PVP within EVE.
Then stop spreading propoganda. What you are saying is completely untrue. I was a newbie once. Most members of my corporation were newbies once. None of us has been playing 'since beta' so, ipso facto: We had to 'catch up' to the vets. Thus: It can, has, and continues to be done.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I respect your opinion. You've been playing the game a lot longer than I did, so you might be right. Maybe it would have gotten better over time.
I really don't want to argue. I was just putting my experience out there from my perspective.
To be honest, I might try this game again after the expansion comes out. I enjoyed it when I played it. But as far as my opinion and experience about "catching up"... well, let's not beat a dead horse. I will concede that it is just my perspective, which is limited and has room for error.
- Phos
I currently play eve but I dont really care for it.... so why do I play? I can play for free using time cards, and its something to do while looking for a better game.
Dont get me wrong I loved the game the first month or so I was in it, then I decided I wanted to see more so I try to go to 0.0 ... every single spot where you go over from >0.0 to 0.0 you have a bubble of instant death so no amount of wcs will help you... I joined a 0.0 corp and its a pain to even get out to the corp ended up setting up a jump clone and jumping back and forth between empire and low sec until war dec then boom open season in my miner in high sec or log off until my timer is up for another jump clone back to 0.0 and try to rat without getting molested. In all honesty, if they got rid of interdictors I would prolly stay with the game... at least without those bubbles you can prepare a ship before you leave the station and have a chance to make it past a gate camp... either that or put some tougher rats/deadspace up in high sec so that you dont HAVE to go to 0.0 for a challenge.
BTW I hate PVP with a passion if only I had known how badly it would be forced on you in eve would have never even tried it out. (even still its better than WOW)
Hate to break it to you, but you can deploy and anchor bubbles even without an interdictor...
In the past few days I've been actively posting, I think I haven't made one thing clear at all: I'm also waiting for the next better game then EVE. There's a couple I've been keeping my eye on, but they're not in deployment or even beta stage yet. EVE has many problems, including massive blobbage-induced lag in fleet battles and completely combat-connected gameplay, which I find somewhat unsatisfying.
However, I consider it to be the best of its genre that I've found, at least for me. Alongside EVE I play in MMO betas whenever I can, to both help developers and to see if the upcoming game is something I'd like to play.
By the way, went through EC-P8R at pretty much the peak time yesterday, and the whole system was empty, two on local plus me. How amazing is that? It used to be the hotspot of the North-West Empire-0.0 tunnel.
Just stay out of 0.0 or get a scout, or travel in a gang. This is not a solo pvp game. solo=death in dangerous no security systems, that's why they label it NO security.
Plenty Low sec corps out there. Plenty high sec corps, Eve is a huge universe.
You also might want to look up another corp/alliance that better takes care of their own.
P.S. Good post by Taram. A perfect example of the types of people who you'll find in EVE. Many in my corp are ex/current Military/Law enforcement. It's lots of fun flying with a groups with tactical skill. Just don't forget there's also cold hearted pirates who want to blow you up. Take precautions. Be aware.
As for "massive blobbage lag" Lets see what Trinity does after dec 5th. It's not only new graphics, it's a whole new system in how the nodes work. There is lag for those huge blobs but it's mostly because of what they are about to do away with.
SHOHADAKU
The best way to enter 0.0 is to do some reserch on it first for example over one week monitor the movment of pilots in 0.0 space and the number of ship kills using the galactic map to wrk out where the alliances are patrolling the most and where it seems the gate camps are.
After that it should be easier to work out where you can enter o.o with the best chance of avoiding the obligatory gate or bubble camps.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Retired from: Neocron, Everquest, Everquest 2, Guild Wars, RF Online and Final Fantasy VII
Currently Playing : EvE Online.
thats just it... I dont want pvp at all, which means just stop playing eve period... even high sec corps can have war dec on them and then your right back in forced pvp... I am primarily a solo player, log on a few hours kill some rats maybe do a mission then log off.... I dont have the time to invest in building a gang and flying around ganking ppl trying to make money off of rats or other gank squads, and frankly its not fun. I really dont want to join a blob on my day off to spend however long it takes for some fleet battle over a non existant corner of non reality.... I want a game like eq1 pre kunark god the game was awesome back then, was great to get into and just get lost... I didnt mind spending hours running across the entire continent to make a stein of moggok at level 8 then go to EC tunnel and sell it to buy a FBR or oracle robe. After all the easy mode adds went to SWG until NGE then left that... give me a game like either of those and I will jump right in.
thats just it... I dont want pvp at all, which means just stop playing eve period... even high sec corps can have war dec on them and then your right back in forced pvp... I am primarily a solo player, log on a few hours kill some rats maybe do a mission then log off.... I dont have the time to invest in building a gang and flying around ganking ppl trying to make money off of rats or other gank squads, and frankly its not fun. I really dont want to join a blob on my day off to spend however long it takes for some fleet battle over a non existant corner of non reality.... I want a game like eq1 pre kunark god the game was awesome back then, was great to get into and just get lost... I didnt mind spending hours running across the entire continent to make a stein of moggok at level 8 then go to EC tunnel and sell it to buy a FBR or oracle robe. After all the easy mode adds went to SWG until NGE then left that... give me a game like either of those and I will jump right in.
Most people who want to completely avoid pvp and be free to rat/mine where they please just stay in a noob corp then....i've got an alt in one and I've noticed some of the folks are permanent members in it...and act like a regular corp....."True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
sorry forgot to add in previous post I did try a newb corp... you can go with an entirely untrained out of the box char to a .5 system and kill the rats all day long without them touching you... whats the fun in that?? so run missions well I am running level 3 missions in a drake but those get boring after a while... same missions over and over and over... no named loot, no named anything very boring.
Someone please give me something new to do!!
True, the closest you can get to a 'no-PVP' single-player casual MMO in EVE is by staying in the starting NPC corps and never venturing below 0.5 security systems. Might get a bit boring, though.
I've still to figure out why people want to play a huge, integrated-world MMO as a single-player game. I mean, pay $15/month to play alone on the net? What's the point, really?
EVE doesn't have a main plotline you could follow, and without leaving the NPC corp and venturing into lowsec you can't even setup POSes or do anything else that's really interesting.
Dunno, maybe it's just me. Maybe others can enlighten me on why this is?
Edit: Added a missing 'In EVE' to the first sentence.
in other games I have had time for full activity with guilds and doing raids and such as that, right now though I am working a lot and doing a lot of other rl activities, and again I play for free by just doing missions and trading isk for timecards.
eve isn't a game about 1v1 engagements. it's about huge fleets fighting over systems, or, at best, a handful of combatants. you may get a number of 1v2, 1v3, 1v4, 1vMany fights. it's doubtful you'll see 1v1 engagements.
soooooooooo, the whole idea of "catching up" is a rather moot point.
Well, why don't you try trading? I've never managed to figure it out completely, but I do good enough business whenever I set my sellorders.
By the way, you've got to have the worst luck in the world if you can't get any named loot in missions. I usually get all the variations to most modules in just a few missions... Of course, this doesn't include faction loot, which is rarer (and on purpose, too!), but the occasional batch of NPC ammo, or frigate to cruiser-class gear sometimes drops in lvl3's and above. Sometimes you get lucky, and score something very valuable, such as a named cargo extender (even the non-faction ones bring in a very good price) or faction hardener/adaptive nano.
Running complexes you can sometimes find NPC officers as the 'bosses', which may drop officer loot that's not only very good, but extremely valuable. Finding a good 'plex may require some work, and potentially PVP (lowsec and 0.0) though.
You could also try manufacturing/trade combination, set up some production lines and then move the produce to the best markets. Run-up times keep you busy for a while, but you could probably figure out a way to get materials supplied through a contract with some mining corp, so you don't have to haul them yourself.
Then there's research, and running research agents, which is low-key income, but lucrative over time (you could free up some gametime by supplementing your income on datacores by an agent or two).
And lastly, there's the dreaded PVP, which can actually be fun if you don't go into it with a determination to win, but with the idea of having fun. Get a few friends together, set up a roving gang of fast T1 cruisers/T2 frigs (cheap), and go explore the mystery universe of 0.0! Just remember to clone-jump to an un-implanted clone before you go, upgrade your clone, and remember to bring plenty of ammo!