I just think it's time for everyone to get over it now, SWG was only a game and shit happens, nothing lasts forever. Theres much more important things out there anyways like seeing the world.
Please my nerds, listen to this guy. He is the only one that actually makes sense in this whole thread...
well, guess what...the statute of limitations on wire fraud is 5 years. Now go find me one attorney in the United States who believes you have a case. You have 3 years, starting...now.
SOE falls under California State Law and not Delaware Law.
A lawsuit is possible, although the net gain of something less than $50 is costly due to the legal fee.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
When are some people (SOE & LA especially!) going to understand that the old SWG was a living virtual world that created it's own content. Linear boring progression, bah! Linear force fed quest content, pfft. A real MMORPG player craves non of those things! As for the imbalances. Yes the old game had a lot of imbalances, but mostly because some professions simple never were finished or just plain buggy. However, when most people talk about imbalance they tend to compare professions in 1 vs. 1 dueling. The combat in the old game had a lot more depth than simple duelling, just to bad that so few saw that /sigh.
I can appreciate that you feel that pre-NGE was a virtual world. I was there. I saw the populations and I do miss them.
However, one cannot blindly ignore the fact that both EQ2, WoW and other games released since SWG all indicate that a large percentage of the MMO population enjoys lore driven quest chains and deep worldwide stories that they feel they are a part of. To deny that such a desire exists is just plain naivety.
ALL mmo's in my opinion are another form of escapism. Even moreso than watching a good film. You feel like you are stripped away from your everyday life, and are enveloped in a world which you feel you are part of. Lore / storylines / quests, call them what you will help tremendously to do that. No one can despute that WoW's lore and quest storylines are some of the best in the business.
Sure, player driven entertainment has its own allure. But people love to be told good story's. This is one of the reasons why the first three Star Wars films were such a big hit in the first place.
The MMO market has changed from grindfest loving MMO's (e.g. EQ1, SWG and AO) to quest loving MMO's. Some MMO developers have realised that shift and tried to take steps to keep up for better or for worse. MMO players who create their own content can look after themselves, but those who love stories want them to be told.
Like I said originally, pre AND post NGE SWG versions have their own unique problems. Neither is perfect by a long shot. Theres no going back, only forward. The only thing SOE can do now is give the player as much choices of things to do in SWG as possible. Whether it is quest chains, player driven content, crafting or anything else. Choice can be the saviour of any MMO.
It is possible for both of you to be right.
This was a large sandbox world where, to a large extent, player interactions defined content - the necessity to level your character to the skill capacities that you wanted, to generate income to afford and customise your home, clothes, vehicles and to protect your own faction while attacking the other.
That does not mean that there was not also room for linear quests within this world. I enjoyed the different theme parks - though I thought they were a little low level. While I intensely disliked the limited and instanced geographyt of Kashyyk - all those narrow paths after the wide open spaces of the rest of the planets - I thought some of the quests that planet introduced were excellent. However, you did not have to do those quests to con tinue enjoying the game. They were just another faced of this huge, open-ended universe.
Yeah, that's what I think made SWG so nice. There were something to do for a lot of different player styles. All these play styles combined created a very unique game and a unique community.
Kashyyk, the CU, well I'm not even going to comment about that. I think you know my stance on that already .
...um...no. They offered refunds at that point, there was no lawsuit (civil) let alone a CRIMINAL charge filed, as this guy stated.
I am sorry, what you say is not quite true. The Kashyyk expansion was launched and then, a little later, the NGE commenced. When consumers complained that they had bought the expansion on the strenght of getting tools for their profession that was actually abolished by the NGE, SOE first insisted that they would not be providing any refunds at all. They then received a guidance note from the Better Business Bureau who told them that the Bureau had received complaints from aggrieved subscribers and that they were potentially exposed to class action lawsuit under existing US consumer protection legislation. It was at that point that SOE then announced there would be, after all, a refund.
Wire Fraud is a federal offense...not state. It's also not a civil case, it's criminal.
And regardless, SOE didn't violate their contract in regards to the Consumer Legal Remedies Act...so there is no case on a civil level either.
and to the poster above, the BBB report clearly shows that of the 300+ filings against SOE in the form of consumer complaints, all were resolved. The BBB has zero power, it's simply a club...created by Al Capone, btw...so consumers complaining to them is meaningless.
Now that is in brief, but I suppose you want the full explanation with references cited.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Wire Fraud is a federal offense...not state. It's also not a civil case, it's criminal.
And regardless, SOE didn't violate their contract in regards to the Consumer Legal Remedies Act...so there is no case on a civil level either.
I am afraid it is not possible for you to say that since it was not tested in any court. And you don't get to decide what does or doesn't make a case that is within the vires of a contract judge - only a judge does.
Wire Fraud is a federal offense...not state. It's also not a civil case, it's criminal.
And regardless, SOE didn't violate their contract in regards to the Consumer Legal Remedies Act...so there is no case on a civil level either.
and to the poster above, the BBB report clearly shows that of the 300+ filings against SOE in the form of consumer complaints, all were resolved. The BBB has zero power, it's simply a club...created by Al Capone, btw...so consumers complaining to them is meaningless.
What 'BBB report' are you talking about? No-one else has mentioned a compiled BBB report - in fact, this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned it. Do you work for SOE?
Wire Fraud is a federal offense...not state. It's also not a civil case, it's criminal.
And regardless, SOE didn't violate their contract in regards to the Consumer Legal Remedies Act...so there is no case on a civil level either.
I am afraid it is not possible for you to say that since it was not tested in any court. And you don't get to decide what does or doesn't make a case that is within the vires of a contract judge - only a judge does.
LOL...and again, why do you think it never saw the inside of a court room? Because there was no case.
But again, the original poster accused SOE of wire fraud...which isn't civil, isn't State, and really has nothing to do with the rest of this.
Actually Hub, you said the BBB sent them a "guidance letter" (which, btw, after 20 years of dealing with the BBB is something I've never...ever...heard of), and this was the reason for their decision to give refunds and avoid a lawsuit.
"They then received a guidance note from the Better Business Bureau who told them that the Bureau had received complaints from aggrieved subscribers and that they were potentially exposed to class action lawsuit under existing US consumer protection legislation. It was at that point that SOE then announced there would be, after all, a refund."
p.s. Among the many things the BBB doesn't do? Give legal advice.
true they tryed alot of stuff to stop the cancelations lol lol lol lol
To include hiding the cancel button. Theydid that both immediately after the CU and again after the NGE. The link to the cancel button used to be on the front of the main page. Then, so many people started canceling after the CU, that they removed the link from the front page and made you go through two other pages to cancel. There were threads in the forum asking people how to cancel, SOE made it that difficult.
They did the same thing when NGE hit. All of a sudden, the normal acct management page no longer had a cancel option. Then, after that was "fixed" the customer acct server was so overloaded with people canceling, that it broke their system. People were billed after canceling and SOE said "too bad". Several of my friends ended up reversing the charges on the credit card over that one.
Yeah, great example of SOE thought... "People are canceling.... what do we do? I know, deactivate the cancel button." It would be funny, if it weren't true.
Wire Fraud is a federal offense...not state. It's also not a civil case, it's criminal.
And regardless, SOE didn't violate their contract in regards to the Consumer Legal Remedies Act...so there is no case on a civil level either.
I am afraid it is not possible for you to say that since it was not tested in any court. And you don't get to decide what does or doesn't make a case that is within the vires of a contract judge - only a judge does.
LOL...and again, why do you think it never saw the inside of a court room? Because there was no case.
But again, the original poster accused SOE of wire fraud...which isn't civil, isn't State, and really has nothing to do with the rest of this.
Actually Hub, you said the BBB sent them a "guidance letter" (which, btw, after 20 years of dealing with the BBB is something I've never...ever...heard of), and this was the reason for their decision to give refunds and avoid a lawsuit.
"They then received a guidance note from the Better Business Bureau who told them that the Bureau had received complaints from aggrieved subscribers and that they were potentially exposed to class action lawsuit under existing US consumer protection legislation. It was at that point that SOE then announced there would be, after all, a refund."
p.s. Among the many things the BBB doesn't do? Give legal advice.
Of course the BBB gives legal advice:
You can see so here on a section of the BBB website entitled 'legal advice':
I am afraid that you do not seem to be reliable on this subject at all.
Oh, and I would very much like you to tell us more about the report detailing the '300+ complaints' received by SOE. How come you know about this and the rest of the world does not know? No, serious question.
Read it again, sweetheart and, oh, is it only me who is noticing that you're not answering a simple question: what are you talking about when you mentioned a BBB report into '300+ complaints' against SOE?
Can you answer that question or were you just making it up? Thanks in advance.
Read it again, sweetheart and, oh, is it only me who is noticing that you're not answering a simple question: what are you talking about when you mentioned a BBB report into '300+ complaints' against SOE?
Can you answer that question or were you just making it up? Thanks in advance.
how many times would you like me to read an article about whether or not a Prepaid Legal Service is right for you??? Jesus man, did you even read the last line of the ARTICLE:
"Before joining a legal service plan, particularly one whose track record is unfamiliar to you, contact your Better Business Bureau for a reliability report on the company and contact your state’s Insurance Commissioner."
This is a Better Business Report on Legal Service Plans...not an advertisement for their own Legal Service Plan.
As to the BBB report with 300+ complaints against SOE...if you actually knew how to traverse the BBB website a little better, it's right here:
Remember too though Lat, that's all of SOE, not just SWG, and since they are an accredited business it means "it means the BBB has determined that the business meets accreditation standards which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints"
p.s. The real deal btw, is that the BBB is almost extortion. It's why the Al Capone connection is so ironic. Business who pay their membership fees are always shown in a positive light, regardless of the number of complaints (which is usually reduced on the report) or how they're handled. BBB reports are virtually useless.
The only real consumer protection comes from the Attorney General's office for the State involved.
Are people that unpleasant and childish to want a game pulled because they don't like it? I loved the old game ... but its gone.
It's not about being childish even though some may act it. Nor is it out of anger even though some lack the communication skills to appear anything but angry.
It's out of morality and justice that not only Star Wars Galaxies deserves to fail and be closed, but also that we see the complete collapse of SOE.
We have Capitalism to thank. When you rob consumers and lie to them only to be caught in an action of WireFraud, which was committed dedicated customers, there's little satisfaction other then to see the perp get nailed.
As consumers we all have the ability to make or break a product, especially one as fragil as SWG. SOE made the decisions and enforced them upon the consumers. It is due to the mistreatment, and theft, that we, as consumers, make our decisions known.
I honestly doubt anyone sits anywhere and spends the entire day thinking about how much they hate SOE or LA. But Ill be damned, there's some pretty messed up people in this world and if there were ever a reason for someone who's just a tad bit off their rocker to hate something I'd suspect that those two corporations had giving them an excuse to start taking their meds...
But I digress: SOE is a failure and it's unfortunate for the remaining players of SWG. Since it'll be their fate to suffer the clossing of their game.
History is taught for a reason - To learn from others mistakes. These threads exist as lessons in history and there's a new class every day...
/applaud
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Lol they kinda had to with the out cry that was going on...
Actually, the point is they absolutely didn't "have to"...but they chose to anyways.
Actually, the point is that under European law, they HAD to, and could have been prosecuted successfully, since they pulled a very obvious bait-and-switch. I found and posted the relevant articles back then (and was promply forum banned). I'm not as well-versed in US laws, but from what other posters replied (some of them lawyers), there WERE in fact federal laws prohibiting exactly that kind of tactics.
For your information: EULAs are not as sacrosanct as companies pretend they are. Hence the provision that is added by some companies that "some parts hereof may not apply in your jurisdiction", usually followed by a statement that if one paragraph of a EULA is deemed illegal, this will not invalidate the rest of the Eula.
You could agree in a contract that your children will become property of a company if you fail to meet e.g. a financial deadline. That doesn't make the contract legal. The law prohibits slavery, and the law has precedence over contracts.
Also, because the European servers aren't maintained by a European country (like Codemasters, for example) the advertising practices of SOE don't fall under the jurisdiction of the ASA, only the United States' voluntary compliance with the EASA (which offers no judicial regulation of US companies, only a complaint resolution procedure).
Actually Linna, almost every contract drawn in the U.S. has a severability clause. This isn't something SOE or EULA's invented. http://www.library.yale.edu/~llicense/sevcls.shtml Also, because the European servers aren't maintained by a European country (like Codemasters, for example) the advertising practices of SOE don't fall under the jurisdiction of the ASA, only the United States' voluntary compliance with the EASA (which offers no judicial regulation of US companies, only a complaint resolution procedure).
Thanks for playing though.
Never claimed it was an exclusive thing, thanks. Also, the severability clause is there for a reason, and it's not unique to US contracts.
Unless they moved them, the European servers are in Amsterdam and are being maintained by a company in the Netherlands. Even if the law didn't state that companies operating in the EU have to abide by EU law, it is also FACT, not fiction, that all products sold within the EU have to comply to European law. If the product doesn't comply, it can't be sold, or, if found in breech retroactively, the company gets hefty fines until it DOES comply. Witness Microsoft versus the EU. Bait and switch is illegal, hence opens the company doing it to prosecution.
Never claimed it was an exclusive thing, thanks. Also, the severability clause is there for a reason, and it's not unique to US contracts. Unless they moved them, the European servers are in Amsterdam and are being maintained by a company in the Netherlands. Even if the law didn't state that companies operating in the EU have to abide by EU law, it is also FACT, not fiction, that all products sold within the EU have to comply to European law. If the product doesn't comply, it can't be sold, or, if found in breech retroactively, the company gets hefty fines until it DOES comply. Witness Microsoft versus the EU. Bait and switch is illegal, hence opens the company doing it to prosecution. Linna
LOL...and even assuming what you state to be true...
You just proved my point for me, by stating that if a company operates in bait & switch advertising it can't be sold and will get hefty fines...which SOE didn't have happen...so clearly they didn't violate the law.
huh.
btw, Microsoft's litigation with the EU has absolutely nothing to do with Bait and Switch, advertising, fraud or anything else...it was an antitrust action.
When they released Trials of Obiwan on November 1st then released the NGE 2 weeks later, they were forced to offer refunds to those who purchased ToOW and didn't want to play the NGE because there were adequet lawsuits available against SOE. And many did pick up the refund and promptly quit.
Comments
Please my nerds, listen to this guy. He is the only one that actually makes sense in this whole thread...
A lawsuit is possible, although the net gain of something less than $50 is costly due to the legal fee.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I can appreciate that you feel that pre-NGE was a virtual world. I was there. I saw the populations and I do miss them.
However, one cannot blindly ignore the fact that both EQ2, WoW and other games released since SWG all indicate that a large percentage of the MMO population enjoys lore driven quest chains and deep worldwide stories that they feel they are a part of. To deny that such a desire exists is just plain naivety.
ALL mmo's in my opinion are another form of escapism. Even moreso than watching a good film. You feel like you are stripped away from your everyday life, and are enveloped in a world which you feel you are part of. Lore / storylines / quests, call them what you will help tremendously to do that. No one can despute that WoW's lore and quest storylines are some of the best in the business.
Sure, player driven entertainment has its own allure. But people love to be told good story's. This is one of the reasons why the first three Star Wars films were such a big hit in the first place.
The MMO market has changed from grindfest loving MMO's (e.g. EQ1, SWG and AO) to quest loving MMO's. Some MMO developers have realised that shift and tried to take steps to keep up for better or for worse. MMO players who create their own content can look after themselves, but those who love stories want them to be told.
Like I said originally, pre AND post NGE SWG versions have their own unique problems. Neither is perfect by a long shot. Theres no going back, only forward. The only thing SOE can do now is give the player as much choices of things to do in SWG as possible. Whether it is quest chains, player driven content, crafting or anything else. Choice can be the saviour of any MMO.
It is possible for both of you to be right.
This was a large sandbox world where, to a large extent, player interactions defined content - the necessity to level your character to the skill capacities that you wanted, to generate income to afford and customise your home, clothes, vehicles and to protect your own faction while attacking the other.
That does not mean that there was not also room for linear quests within this world. I enjoyed the different theme parks - though I thought they were a little low level. While I intensely disliked the limited and instanced geographyt of Kashyyk - all those narrow paths after the wide open spaces of the rest of the planets - I thought some of the quests that planet introduced were excellent. However, you did not have to do those quests to con tinue enjoying the game. They were just another faced of this huge, open-ended universe.
Yeah, that's what I think made SWG so nice. There were something to do for a lot of different player styles. All these play styles combined created a very unique game and a unique community.
Kashyyk, the CU, well I'm not even going to comment about that. I think you know my stance on that already
.
I am sorry, what you say is not quite true. The Kashyyk expansion was launched and then, a little later, the NGE commenced. When consumers complained that they had bought the expansion on the strenght of getting tools for their profession that was actually abolished by the NGE, SOE first insisted that they would not be providing any refunds at all. They then received a guidance note from the Better Business Bureau who told them that the Bureau had received complaints from aggrieved subscribers and that they were potentially exposed to class action lawsuit under existing US consumer protection legislation. It was at that point that SOE then announced there would be, after all, a refund.
Wire Fraud is a federal offense...not state. It's also not a civil case, it's criminal.
And regardless, SOE didn't violate their contract in regards to the Consumer Legal Remedies Act...so there is no case on a civil level either.
and to the poster above, the BBB report clearly shows that of the 300+ filings against SOE in the form of consumer complaints, all were resolved. The BBB has zero power, it's simply a club...created by Al Capone, btw...so consumers complaining to them is meaningless.
Anyone can sue anybody for anything.
Now that is in brief, but I suppose you want the full explanation with references cited.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
I am afraid it is not possible for you to say that since it was not tested in any court. And you don't get to decide what does or doesn't make a case that is within the vires of a contract judge - only a judge does.
What 'BBB report' are you talking about? No-one else has mentioned a compiled BBB report - in fact, this is the first time anyone has ever mentioned it. Do you work for SOE?
I am afraid it is not possible for you to say that since it was not tested in any court. And you don't get to decide what does or doesn't make a case that is within the vires of a contract judge - only a judge does.
LOL...and again, why do you think it never saw the inside of a court room? Because there was no case.
But again, the original poster accused SOE of wire fraud...which isn't civil, isn't State, and really has nothing to do with the rest of this.
Actually Hub, you said the BBB sent them a "guidance letter" (which, btw, after 20 years of dealing with the BBB is something I've never...ever...heard of), and this was the reason for their decision to give refunds and avoid a lawsuit.
"They then received a guidance note from the Better Business Bureau who told them that the Bureau had received complaints from aggrieved subscribers and that they were potentially exposed to class action lawsuit under existing US consumer protection legislation. It was at that point that SOE then announced there would be, after all, a refund."
p.s. Among the many things the BBB doesn't do? Give legal advice.
To include hiding the cancel button. Theydid that both immediately after the CU and again after the NGE. The link to the cancel button used to be on the front of the main page. Then, so many people started canceling after the CU, that they removed the link from the front page and made you go through two other pages to cancel. There were threads in the forum asking people how to cancel, SOE made it that difficult.
They did the same thing when NGE hit. All of a sudden, the normal acct management page no longer had a cancel option. Then, after that was "fixed" the customer acct server was so overloaded with people canceling, that it broke their system. People were billed after canceling and SOE said "too bad". Several of my friends ended up reversing the charges on the credit card over that one.
Yeah, great example of SOE thought... "People are canceling.... what do we do? I know, deactivate the cancel button." It would be funny, if it weren't true.
I am afraid it is not possible for you to say that since it was not tested in any court. And you don't get to decide what does or doesn't make a case that is within the vires of a contract judge - only a judge does.
LOL...and again, why do you think it never saw the inside of a court room? Because there was no case.
But again, the original poster accused SOE of wire fraud...which isn't civil, isn't State, and really has nothing to do with the rest of this.
Actually Hub, you said the BBB sent them a "guidance letter" (which, btw, after 20 years of dealing with the BBB is something I've never...ever...heard of), and this was the reason for their decision to give refunds and avoid a lawsuit.
"They then received a guidance note from the Better Business Bureau who told them that the Bureau had received complaints from aggrieved subscribers and that they were potentially exposed to class action lawsuit under existing US consumer protection legislation. It was at that point that SOE then announced there would be, after all, a refund."
p.s. Among the many things the BBB doesn't do? Give legal advice.
Of course the BBB gives legal advice:
You can see so here on a section of the BBB website entitled 'legal advice':
http://www.bbb.org/Alerts/article.asp?ID=264
I am afraid that you do not seem to be reliable on this subject at all.
Oh, and I would very much like you to tell us more about the report detailing the '300+ complaints' received by SOE. How come you know about this and the rest of the world does not know? No, serious question.
um...dude...did you read that link?
It's a BBB article on Legal Service Plans...like a review of them...like Prepaid Legal...not an offer to provide you one.
wow...just...wow.
p.s. Here's a link to Auto Repair and Services...does the Better Business Bureau fix my car too???
http://www.bbb.org/Alerts/article.asp?ID=87
Yeah, and that's another thing. The Better Business Bureau was set up in 1912. Al Capone was born in 1899.
Are you saying that Scarface set up this million plus registered-business organisation when he was thirteen years old?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Capone
Read it again, sweetheart and, oh, is it only me who is noticing that you're not answering a simple question: what are you talking about when you mentioned a BBB report into '300+ complaints' against SOE?
Can you answer that question or were you just making it up? Thanks in advance.
Al Capone founded the Greater Chicago BBB.
Read it again, sweetheart and, oh, is it only me who is noticing that you're not answering a simple question: what are you talking about when you mentioned a BBB report into '300+ complaints' against SOE?
Can you answer that question or were you just making it up? Thanks in advance.
how many times would you like me to read an article about whether or not a Prepaid Legal Service is right for you??? Jesus man, did you even read the last line of the ARTICLE:
"Before joining a legal service plan, particularly one whose track record is unfamiliar to you, contact your Better Business Bureau for a reliability report on the company and contact your state’s Insurance Commissioner."
This is a Better Business Report on Legal Service Plans...not an advertisement for their own Legal Service Plan.
As to the BBB report with 300+ complaints against SOE...if you actually knew how to traverse the BBB website a little better, it's right here:
http://sandiego.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=26&bbb=1186&firm=11000350
it ain't rocket science.
Oh snap- thank you for my next blog issue for SWG!!!!!! Question is how was this followed up on?
http://sandiego.bbb.org/WWWRoot/Report.aspx?site=26&bbb=1186&firm=11000350
Never mind I found it: http://www.our.bbb.org/SanDiego/Public/Reports/BrandedReport_ComplaintDetails.aspx?firm=11000350
Remember too though Lat, that's all of SOE, not just SWG, and since they are an accredited business it means "it means the BBB has determined that the business meets accreditation standards which include a commitment to make a good faith effort to resolve any consumer complaints"
p.s. The real deal btw, is that the BBB is almost extortion. It's why the Al Capone connection is so ironic. Business who pay their membership fees are always shown in a positive light, regardless of the number of complaints (which is usually reduced on the report) or how they're handled. BBB reports are virtually useless.
The only real consumer protection comes from the Attorney General's office for the State involved.
It's out of morality and justice that not only Star Wars Galaxies deserves to fail and be closed, but also that we see the complete collapse of SOE.
We have Capitalism to thank. When you rob consumers and lie to them only to be caught in an action of WireFraud, which was committed dedicated customers, there's little satisfaction other then to see the perp get nailed.
As consumers we all have the ability to make or break a product, especially one as fragil as SWG. SOE made the decisions and enforced them upon the consumers. It is due to the mistreatment, and theft, that we, as consumers, make our decisions known.
I honestly doubt anyone sits anywhere and spends the entire day thinking about how much they hate SOE or LA. But Ill be damned, there's some pretty messed up people in this world and if there were ever a reason for someone who's just a tad bit off their rocker to hate something I'd suspect that those two corporations had giving them an excuse to start taking their meds...
But I digress: SOE is a failure and it's unfortunate for the remaining players of SWG. Since it'll be their fate to suffer the clossing of their game.
History is taught for a reason - To learn from others mistakes. These threads exist as lessons in history and there's a new class every day...
/applaud
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Actually, the point is they absolutely didn't "have to"...but they chose to anyways.
Actually, the point is that under European law, they HAD to, and could have been prosecuted successfully, since they pulled a very obvious bait-and-switch. I found and posted the relevant articles back then (and was promply forum banned). I'm not as well-versed in US laws, but from what other posters replied (some of them lawyers), there WERE in fact federal laws prohibiting exactly that kind of tactics.For your information: EULAs are not as sacrosanct as companies pretend they are. Hence the provision that is added by some companies that "some parts hereof may not apply in your jurisdiction", usually followed by a statement that if one paragraph of a EULA is deemed illegal, this will not invalidate the rest of the Eula.
You could agree in a contract that your children will become property of a company if you fail to meet e.g. a financial deadline. That doesn't make the contract legal. The law prohibits slavery, and the law has precedence over contracts.
Linna
Actually Linna, almost every contract drawn in the U.S. has a severability clause. This isn't something SOE or EULA's invented.
http://www.library.yale.edu/~llicense/sevcls.shtml
Also, because the European servers aren't maintained by a European country (like Codemasters, for example) the advertising practices of SOE don't fall under the jurisdiction of the ASA, only the United States' voluntary compliance with the EASA (which offers no judicial regulation of US companies, only a complaint resolution procedure).
Thanks for playing though.
Never claimed it was an exclusive thing, thanks. Also, the severability clause is there for a reason, and it's not unique to US contracts.
Unless they moved them, the European servers are in Amsterdam and are being maintained by a company in the Netherlands. Even if the law didn't state that companies operating in the EU have to abide by EU law, it is also FACT, not fiction, that all products sold within the EU have to comply to European law. If the product doesn't comply, it can't be sold, or, if found in breech retroactively, the company gets hefty fines until it DOES comply. Witness Microsoft versus the EU. Bait and switch is illegal, hence opens the company doing it to prosecution.
Linna
LOL...and even assuming what you state to be true...
You just proved my point for me, by stating that if a company operates in bait & switch advertising it can't be sold and will get hefty fines...which SOE didn't have happen...so clearly they didn't violate the law.
huh.
btw, Microsoft's litigation with the EU has absolutely nothing to do with Bait and Switch, advertising, fraud or anything else...it was an antitrust action.
When they released Trials of Obiwan on November 1st then released the NGE 2 weeks later, they were forced to offer refunds to those who purchased ToOW and didn't want to play the NGE because there were adequet lawsuits available against SOE. And many did pick up the refund and promptly quit.