Meh, I have trouble believing this stuff. All untrained ? McQuaid a drug addict ? No quests one year before start ? Sounds all pretty extreme, doesnt it ?
The game itself doesnt look like the work of untrained people, really. At least the graphics department must have had some really, really good guys in it, and that from the very start.
And the classes, they're nothing but downright gorgeous, even if it was a lot of trouble to balance them, obviously, and I really wished I could get more than only those eight character slots.
The quests ... um, ok, cant decide about that. There are some pretty fun ones around, though.
Crafting and Diplomacy and Harvest ... well, inventive, but meh. I guess Diplomacy could be fun, at least to find out the lore of the world. Sadly, I really, really hate card games. Harvest is dead boring. Crafting is dead boring - and worse, you need concentration for it, too, which makes it even more boring. With harvest, you can chat on channels and stuff.
And as long as there is no alternative to Vanguard on the market anyway, I will continue playing it. Nobody else offers something like Vanguard's classes.
Just to play devils advocate When can someone voice their displeasure with being lied to? What is the magic dollar amount when it becomes ok to be upset over? $100? 10,000? $50 to some people is a very significant amount of money and to others the principle is more important.
Not that I think taking deep personal shots is ok, but if anyone has earned them Brad surely has. If the game had been a runaway success I doubt anyone would wag fingers at people praising him. Brad let his mouth write checks that his company could not cash. He also made very large steps to make sure he was visible as the point man for the company and to most people he is Sigil.
This actually is a clear and concise argument, and I like to see opposing views on why people are disgruntled about a game.
However, what irks me is when people say a particluar person in charge should burn in hell, is in a drug induced fog, or wish their wife or dog dies over a $50 game that they themselves were suckered into buying. They blindly follow hype and then get mad at the guy in charge for "making" them buy the product.
In reality, they are really mad at themselves for being so ignorant and being so easily mislead.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Centhan In reality, they are really mad at themselves for being so ignorant and being so easily mislead.
I agree some people are a bit off the deep end with the accusations.
Think of it this way though. If Brad had made a product of this quality (automobile, childs toy, electronics, etc) in just about any other industry it would possibly be open to class action law suit or some other form of consumer protection action. I can see where the anger comes from for sure since there is little recourse open to consumers here except venting.
Sigil and SOE took a big steamy dump on their customers by releasing the game the way it was.
Originally posted by Centhan In reality, they are really mad at themselves for being so ignorant and being so easily mislead.
I agree some people are a bit off the deep end with the accusations.
Think of it this way though. If Brad had made a product of this quality (automobile, childs toy, electronics, etc) in just about any other industry it would possibly be open to class action law suit or some other form of consumer protection action. I can see where the anger comes from for sure since there is little recourse open to consumers here except venting.
Sigil and SOE took a big steamy dump on their customers by releasing the game the way it was.
Well granted there was a beta that allowed players to try it before they bought it, and .. eventhough I was one of them and.. unfortunately bought the game outright before I got to play the beta--- like an asshole--- it would be the same as letting everyone drive the brand new cars before they bought them. (which is kinda what they do now). I mean if I seriously got to drive the game before I paid for it, I probably wouldn't have done it. Granted it is much better then it was back then, but still, probably not.
Just to play devils advocate When can someone voice their displeasure with being lied to? What is the magic dollar amount when it becomes ok to be upset over? $100? 10,000? $50 to some people is a very significant amount of money and to others the principle is more important.
Not that I think taking deep personal shots is ok, but if anyone has earned them Brad surely has. If the game had been a runaway success I doubt anyone would wag fingers at people praising him. Brad let his mouth write checks that his company could not cash. He also made very large steps to make sure he was visible as the point man for the company and to most people he is Sigil.
I don't think anyone can deny that everyone has a right to complain. You can say the game sucks, the game is a rip off, the game doesn't do "X" and isn't "Y". But why come off an rape and pilage the person that tried to make the game a reality?
Sure he hyped the game and sure he thought it was going to be great? And you know what I bet he believed every word of it?! Does that make him a liar? No but maybe a failure. People who are passionate about something don't necessarily see it with reality and also he has to see it positively he is kinda the spokesman for his company... That was his job...
He hyped more then he could deliver. No question but again he wasn't lying he didn't expect to have to ship when he did and after his circumstances changed it was kinda hard to revise history. Even up till the moment of launch the devs were trying to get things in that he had talked about but it just wasn't possible in the time they had...
I think the only thing I see an issue with, are the continuous vicious attacks on the man.
Let me ask you guys something.. Why do so many of you feel the need to take these unbelievably harsh shots at Brad? Why all the venom and hate towards him? Exactly what have you lost? $50? Some of you act as though Brad personally came to your house and kicked you in the stomach. Some people lost a great deal more. I lost my job, and yet I don't hate him. In fact, I consider Brad a good friend. Exactly how do you justify such hatred and ill will over a $50 game?
So you are an Ex-Sigil Employee? Can you confirm or deny this story?
Let me ask you guys something.. Why do so many of you feel the need to take these unbelievably harsh shots at Brad? Why all the venom and hate towards him? Exactly what have you lost? $50? Some of you act as though Brad personally came to your house and kicked you in the stomach. Some people lost a great deal more. I lost my job, and yet I don't hate him. In fact, I consider Brad a good friend. Exactly how do you justify such hatred and ill will over a $50 game?
So you are an Ex-Sigil Employee? Can you confirm or deny this story?
Elidroth was the name from long ago on the beta forums. So assuming it is the same person, he is one of the older devs.
But isn't it sad how all you care about is getting more dirt and turmoil going. Sigil is dead and whatever happened happened. Do we really need to revel in the history of it all? Lets move on and watch the future of vanguard or whatever other new game gets you excited.
Meh, I have trouble believing this stuff. All untrained ? McQuaid a drug addict ? No quests one year before start ? Sounds all pretty extreme, doesnt it ?
The game itself doesnt look like the work of untrained people, really. At least the graphics department must have had some really, really good guys in it, and that from the very start. And the classes, they're nothing but downright gorgeous, even if it was a lot of trouble to balance them, obviously, and I really wished I could get more than only those eight character slots. The quests ... um, ok, cant decide about that. There are some pretty fun ones around, though. Crafting and Diplomacy and Harvest ... well, inventive, but meh. I guess Diplomacy could be fun, at least to find out the lore of the world. Sadly, I really, really hate card games. Harvest is dead boring. Crafting is dead boring - and worse, you need concentration for it, too, which makes it even more boring. With harvest, you can chat on channels and stuff.
And as long as there is no alternative to Vanguard on the market anyway, I will continue playing it. Nobody else offers something like Vanguard's classes.
Well I was in beta from 12/05 and while the game has changed a bunch it's untrue to say that it didn't have quests. The game did undergo lots of changes in that time. The combat system was more like a magic casting in that combat effects followed selecting an ability. Reactions, counters, and many of these elements were kinda built around that. The combat system worked and was in some ways more strategic then the current system. So there was a lot of a game back then. The same goes for things like crafting and diplomacy. but over the year they changed the combat system to be more immediate and faster based on feedback. There were lots of changes and they came fast up until MS and Sigil parted ways. At that point things really started to fall apart. Updates were slower, there were more bugs and things really ground to a halt. You could feel a lot of the drive and moral dropping right then...
There were a lot of interesting things I saw in beta. One thing was at one time you learned all your skill upgrades from combat and you learned chains as extentions of your base abilities. I really liked how that worked. And like spell casting you could percieve upcoming attacks and do counters in anticipation. Plus I almost forgot there were ability synergies. Where one class could do an ability which would open up new attack styles or do special enhancements to existing attacks. this only reappeared after the changes in combat a couple months before the end of beta as the vulnerability system.
Spell memorization went away. Wounding went away. As far as I can tell AES went away. Back in december there was a version of the ancient port raid area already in the game. I'm sure it has changed by the point was it was there. So it isn't quite true that everything was done in the last year there was a lot of stuff done before I started 1 year before release.
Let me ask you guys something.. Why do so many of you feel the need to take these unbelievably harsh shots at Brad? Why all the venom and hate towards him? Exactly what have you lost? $50? Some of you act as though Brad personally came to your house and kicked you in the stomach. Some people lost a great deal more. I lost my job, and yet I don't hate him. In fact, I consider Brad a good friend. Exactly how do you justify such hatred and ill will over a $50 game?
So you are an Ex-Sigil Employee? Can you confirm or deny this story?
Elidroth was the name from long ago on the beta forums. So assuming it is the same person, he is one of the older devs.
But isn't it sad how all you care about is getting more dirt and turmoil going. Sigil is dead and whatever happened happened. Do we really need to revel in the history of it all? Lets move on and watch the future of vanguard or whatever other new game gets you excited.
This story is a lot more interesting than playing or talking about Vanguard. More confirmation:
Originally posted by ethion Well I was in beta from 12/05 and while the game has changed a bunch it's untrue to say that it didn't have quests. The game did undergo lots of changes in that time. The combat system was more like a magic casting in that combat effects followed selecting an ability. Reactions, counters, and many of these elements were kinda built around that. The combat system worked and was in some ways more strategic then the current system. So there was a lot of a game back then. The same goes for things like crafting and diplomacy. but over the year they changed the combat system to be more immediate and faster based on feedback. There were lots of changes and they came fast up until MS and Sigil parted ways. At that point things really started to fall apart. Updates were slower, there were more bugs and things really ground to a halt. You could feel a lot of the drive and moral dropping right then... There were a lot of interesting things I saw in beta. One thing was at one time you learned all your skill upgrades from combat and you learned chains as extentions of your base abilities. I really liked how that worked. And like spell casting you could percieve upcoming attacks and do counters in anticipation. Plus I almost forgot there were ability synergies. Where one class could do an ability which would open up new attack styles or do special enhancements to existing attacks. this only reappeared after the changes in combat a couple months before the end of beta as the vulnerability system. Spell memorization went away. Wounding went away. As far as I can tell AES went away. Back in december there was a version of the ancient port raid area already in the game. I'm sure it has changed by the point was it was there. So it isn't quite true that everything was done in the last year there was a lot of stuff done before I started 1 year before release.
Very informative posting, and very fascinating too. Thank you very much !
Originally posted by ethion Originally posted by Daffid011 Just to play devils advocate When can someone voice their displeasure with being lied to? What is the magic dollar amount when it becomes ok to be upset over? $100? 10,000? $50 to some people is a very significant amount of money and to others the principle is more important.
Not that I think taking deep personal shots is ok, but if anyone has earned them Brad surely has. If the game had been a runaway success I doubt anyone would wag fingers at people praising him. Brad let his mouth write checks that his company could not cash. He also made very large steps to make sure he was visible as the point man for the company and to most people he is Sigil.
I don't think anyone can deny that everyone has a right to complain. You can say the game sucks, the game is a rip off, the game doesn't do "X" and isn't "Y". But why come off an rape and pilage the person that tried to make the game a reality? Sure he hyped the game and sure he thought it was going to be great? And you know what I bet he believed every word of it?! Does that make him a liar? No but maybe a failure. People who are passionate about something don't necessarily see it with reality and also he has to see it positively he is kinda the spokesman for his company... That was his job... He hyped more then he could deliver. No question but again he wasn't lying he didn't expect to have to ship when he did and after his circumstances changed it was kinda hard to revise history. Even up till the moment of launch the devs were trying to get things in that he had talked about but it just wasn't possible in the time they had... I think the only thing I see an issue with, are the continuous vicious attacks on the man.
Im just curious, are you going to give the spokesman a free pass on firing all his employess (you know the ones with mortgages, kids, etc) in the parking lot?
When can someone voice their displeasure with being lied to? What is the magic dollar amount when it becomes ok to be upset over? $100? 10,000?
$50 to some people is a very significant amount of money and to others the principle is more important.
Not that I think taking deep personal shots is ok, but if anyone has earned them Brad surely has. If the game had been a runaway success I doubt anyone would wag fingers at people praising him. Brad let his mouth write checks that his company could not cash. He also made very large steps to make sure he was visible as the point man for the company and to most people he is Sigil.
I don't think anyone can deny that everyone has a right to complain. You can say the game sucks, the game is a rip off, the game doesn't do "X" and isn't "Y". But why come off an rape and pilage the person that tried to make the game a reality?
Sure he hyped the game and sure he thought it was going to be great? And you know what I bet he believed every word of it?! Does that make him a liar? No but maybe a failure. People who are passionate about something don't necessarily see it with reality and also he has to see it positively he is kinda the spokesman for his company... That was his job...
He hyped more then he could deliver. No question but again he wasn't lying he didn't expect to have to ship when he did and after his circumstances changed it was kinda hard to revise history. Even up till the moment of launch the devs were trying to get things in that he had talked about but it just wasn't possible in the time they had...
I think the only thing I see an issue with, are the continuous vicious attacks on the man.
Im just curious, are you going to give the spokesman a free pass on firing all his employess (you know the ones with mortgages, kids, etc) in the parking lot?
Like that only happens in the gaming industry , it happens all the time to 1000's of people
Let me ask you guys something.. Why do so many of you feel the need to take these unbelievably harsh shots at Brad? Why all the venom and hate towards him? Exactly what have you lost? $50? Some of you act as though Brad personally came to your house and kicked you in the stomach. Some people lost a great deal more. I lost my job, and yet I don't hate him. In fact, I consider Brad a good friend. Exactly how do you justify such hatred and ill will over a $50 game?
I will tell you why it is fun taking shots at Brad, I warned him on his own boards he was making a game for a MINISCULE population of players. The members of that MINISCULE population of lifeless dweebs flamed ME, and Brad banned ME, while they screamed "go play WoW". Like that is some kind of insult! A game 1000000000000000000000 times better then ANY $OE game! He should have banned THEM for being dumb. Some of these MORONS claimed "Vanguard is a WoW killer", idiots should not be allowed to continue to post. Brad should have contacted me, paid me a very large retainer, and I would have told him what to say and what to build, it sure would have been better then listening to Vantards.
I will tell you why it is fun taking shots at Brad, I warned him on his own boards he was making a game for a MINISCULE population of players. The members of that MINISCULE population of lifeless dweebs flamed ME, and Brad banned ME, while they screamed "go play WoW". Like that is some kind of insult! A game 1000000000000000000000 times better then ANY $OE game! He should have banned THEM for being dumb. Some of these MORONS claimed "Vanguard is a WoW killer", idiots should not be allowed to continue to post. Brad should have contacted me, paid me a very large retainer, and I would have told him what to say and what to build, it sure would have been better then listening to Vantards.
Well, I'm one of these, as you like to call it, "MINISCULE" population of players - as I'm quite happy with Vanguard as it is.
I've read a lot of threads to find out what people dont like about Vanguard and honestly I'm still clueless about it.
I mean people give reasons like "there are only 5 hairdos per character". Uh ... yes ? And of course I have to admit - that is indeed a bit low.
And its true, Vanguard requires some hardware to run it, and Vanguard was sadly quite instable in the past, and still has some issues now.
And of course there arent enough players. Thats not the games fault, though.
I have a couple of requests to Vanguard, too - most importantly I miss some good sportive PvP events like castle sieges, and I think the game should be overall a bit harder, at least the higher dot mobs, and it would be cool if the mob AI would be enhanced and made more diverse. For example, why does EVERY mob attack the healer of a group ? There should be SOME mobs who are too stupid to realize that the healer is healing.
Amusingly, nobody mentions these issues ...
But overall Vanguard is a great game with wonderful complex classes, much better than Lineage 2 that I played before. I still miss some things of Lineage 2, such as the Tyrant (the Berserker would be something in that direction), and that my healer was a real healer (here he's more some kind of battlestation). But meh.
But the question is: what exactly is the reason you thought Vanguard was only for a minimal number of players ?
Let me ask you guys something.. Why do so many of you feel the need to take these unbelievably harsh shots at Brad? Why all the venom and hate towards him? Exactly what have you lost? $50? Some of you act as though Brad personally came to your house and kicked you in the stomach. Some people lost a great deal more. I lost my job, and yet I don't hate him. In fact, I consider Brad a good friend. Exactly how do you justify such hatred and ill will over a $50 game?
WTF?
You ask what have you lost $50?
Please send me $50 then i know you are serious?
As to you $50 maybe nothing but to a lot of people that is a lot of money.
I couldnt give a monkey's *** if you lost your job because of Brad that is your business and if you are not upset about it than that fine for you.
But don't come here and say that ohters should not be upset cos they lost only $50, you have no right to even assume that!
Let me ask you guys something.. Why do so many of you feel the need to take these unbelievably harsh shots at Brad? Why all the venom and hate towards him? Exactly what have you lost? $50? Some of you act as though Brad personally came to your house and kicked you in the stomach. Some people lost a great deal more. I lost my job, and yet I don't hate him. In fact, I consider Brad a good friend. Exactly how do you justify such hatred and ill will over a $50 game?
I will tell you why it is fun taking shots at Brad, I warned him on his own boards he was making a game for a MINISCULE population of players. The members of that MINISCULE population of lifeless dweebs flamed ME, and Brad banned ME, while they screamed "go play WoW". Like that is some kind of insult! A game 1000000000000000000000 times better then ANY $OE game! He should have banned THEM for being dumb. Some of these MORONS claimed "Vanguard is a WoW killer", idiots should not be allowed to continue to post. Brad should have contacted me, paid me a very large retainer, and I would have told him what to say and what to build, it sure would have been better then listening to Vantards.
Ah the "Go back to WoW." I was told on the VG beta boards to "Go back to WoW." I did not even play WoW at the time.
I also remember the VG Players saying there was no problem with the game. Everything was great and VG was the next WoW. It was too retarded to even reply to them. The same type of Players are saying "VG is fixed.", "There are tons of people in VG now."
They were lying then and lying now. I bet they are the same people who say this story is not true.
Wow, I'm surprised that anyone would respond with such hostility. Elidroth makes a good point - if you look at the overall picture, the consumer/player hasn't really lost enough to warrant such vehement verbal abuse. As far as I see it, playing a GAME is a LUXURY, not a necessity. It's not the same case where a drug company produces a promising new treatment for a cancer but ends up making it worse for the patients; that's something to really get upset about. Also if a person has the equipment/technology to play Vanguard, I doubt 50 bucks is really that big of a deal. If it is, it's questionable whether that person should be spending his money on games in the first place.
Wow, I'm surprised that anyone would respond with such hostility. Elidroth makes a good point - if you look at the overall picture, the consumer/player hasn't really lost enough to warrant such vehement verbal abuse. As far as I see it, playing a GAME is a LUXURY, not a necessity. It's not the same case where a drug company produces a promising new treatment for a cancer but ends up making it worse for the patients; that's something to really get upset about. Also if a person has the equipment/technology to play Vanguard, I doubt 50 bucks is really that big of a deal. If it is, it's questionable whether that person should be spending his money on games in the first place.
When you buy a game for $50 you expect it to be in a playable state, VG was not ,regardless of anything.
(Unless it states clearly on the box that the game is not compelte and you are buying it at you own risk. Which in this case it does not, not every one trawls the internet before buying a game so saying that they should have known about the state of the game before buying it is not a valid point)
I can't understand how you can say that $50 is nothing, that may well be a kids pocket money for 2 or more months.
Whether it is a luxury or not is beside the point, its all about value for money, even for a full time adult worker $50 is still a considerably sum. Where is the cut off point for you, if you buy 1 game for $50 and it doesnt work how many more can you buy in a month before you can't afford to buy any more?
I have seen no one offering a refund of $50 and as such any ill feeling and abuse should be and is justified, if you feel it is not maybe you will be willing to offer refunds?
I am sure anyone who gets a refund will not be in a postion to bad mouth anyone, until then i feel they get all they deserve.
$50 x 220,000 copies sold = $11,000,000 dollars not including the over 3 million a month in subscription fees. The IRS can fine you $250 bucks for being a error on your tax return, but talking about IRS and cancer drugs is an apples to oranges comparison.
Yeah give me $11,000,000 and i will take any abuse you can throw at me, i won't even mind taking a slap or two lol!
Vulture Skull, don't get me wrong, I am in agreement with you concerning the value of the money and what the consumers deserve. I wasn't being clear on this and that's my fault, but I don't think $50 is nothing - however, nor do I think it is a reason for those who feel cheated to constantly go on tirades and resort to name-calling, destructive speculation and whatnot.
The only reason I pointed out that the product is a luxury is to remind people that on a relative scale, the harm is not so bad. At least, not bad enough to continue having bad feelings over.
Comments
Meh, I have trouble believing this stuff. All untrained ? McQuaid a drug addict ? No quests one year before start ? Sounds all pretty extreme, doesnt it ?
The game itself doesnt look like the work of untrained people, really. At least the graphics department must have had some really, really good guys in it, and that from the very start.
And the classes, they're nothing but downright gorgeous, even if it was a lot of trouble to balance them, obviously, and I really wished I could get more than only those eight character slots.
The quests ... um, ok, cant decide about that. There are some pretty fun ones around, though.
Crafting and Diplomacy and Harvest ... well, inventive, but meh. I guess Diplomacy could be fun, at least to find out the lore of the world. Sadly, I really, really hate card games. Harvest is dead boring. Crafting is dead boring - and worse, you need concentration for it, too, which makes it even more boring. With harvest, you can chat on channels and stuff.
And as long as there is no alternative to Vanguard on the market anyway, I will continue playing it. Nobody else offers something like Vanguard's classes.
This actually is a clear and concise argument, and I like to see opposing views on why people are disgruntled about a game.
However, what irks me is when people say a particluar person in charge should burn in hell, is in a drug induced fog, or wish their wife or dog dies over a $50 game that they themselves were suckered into buying. They blindly follow hype and then get mad at the guy in charge for "making" them buy the product.
In reality, they are really mad at themselves for being so ignorant and being so easily mislead.
As with most posts like this, no way to tell whether its true or not. Just a matter of what a person choses to believe I suppose.
Doesn't change the facts though, VG is what it is, and people can either play it or leave it alone.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I agree some people are a bit off the deep end with the accusations.
Think of it this way though. If Brad had made a product of this quality (automobile, childs toy, electronics, etc) in just about any other industry it would possibly be open to class action law suit or some other form of consumer protection action. I can see where the anger comes from for sure since there is little recourse open to consumers here except venting.
Sigil and SOE took a big steamy dump on their customers by releasing the game the way it was.
I agree some people are a bit off the deep end with the accusations.
Think of it this way though. If Brad had made a product of this quality (automobile, childs toy, electronics, etc) in just about any other industry it would possibly be open to class action law suit or some other form of consumer protection action. I can see where the anger comes from for sure since there is little recourse open to consumers here except venting.
Sigil and SOE took a big steamy dump on their customers by releasing the game the way it was.
Well granted there was a beta that allowed players to try it before they bought it, and .. eventhough I was one of them and.. unfortunately bought the game outright before I got to play the beta--- like an asshole--- it would be the same as letting everyone drive the brand new cars before they bought them. (which is kinda what they do now). I mean if I seriously got to drive the game before I paid for it, I probably wouldn't have done it. Granted it is much better then it was back then, but still, probably not.
I don't think anyone can deny that everyone has a right to complain. You can say the game sucks, the game is a rip off, the game doesn't do "X" and isn't "Y". But why come off an rape and pilage the person that tried to make the game a reality?
Sure he hyped the game and sure he thought it was going to be great? And you know what I bet he believed every word of it?! Does that make him a liar? No but maybe a failure. People who are passionate about something don't necessarily see it with reality and also he has to see it positively he is kinda the spokesman for his company... That was his job...
He hyped more then he could deliver. No question but again he wasn't lying he didn't expect to have to ship when he did and after his circumstances changed it was kinda hard to revise history. Even up till the moment of launch the devs were trying to get things in that he had talked about but it just wasn't possible in the time they had...
I think the only thing I see an issue with, are the continuous vicious attacks on the man.
---
Ethion
So you are an Ex-Sigil Employee? Can you confirm or deny this story?
So you are an Ex-Sigil Employee? Can you confirm or deny this story?
Elidroth was the name from long ago on the beta forums. So assuming it is the same person, he is one of the older devs.
But isn't it sad how all you care about is getting more dirt and turmoil going. Sigil is dead and whatever happened happened. Do we really need to revel in the history of it all? Lets move on and watch the future of vanguard or whatever other new game gets you excited.
---
Ethion
Well I was in beta from 12/05 and while the game has changed a bunch it's untrue to say that it didn't have quests. The game did undergo lots of changes in that time. The combat system was more like a magic casting in that combat effects followed selecting an ability. Reactions, counters, and many of these elements were kinda built around that. The combat system worked and was in some ways more strategic then the current system. So there was a lot of a game back then. The same goes for things like crafting and diplomacy. but over the year they changed the combat system to be more immediate and faster based on feedback. There were lots of changes and they came fast up until MS and Sigil parted ways. At that point things really started to fall apart. Updates were slower, there were more bugs and things really ground to a halt. You could feel a lot of the drive and moral dropping right then...
There were a lot of interesting things I saw in beta. One thing was at one time you learned all your skill upgrades from combat and you learned chains as extentions of your base abilities. I really liked how that worked. And like spell casting you could percieve upcoming attacks and do counters in anticipation. Plus I almost forgot there were ability synergies. Where one class could do an ability which would open up new attack styles or do special enhancements to existing attacks. this only reappeared after the changes in combat a couple months before the end of beta as the vulnerability system.
Spell memorization went away. Wounding went away. As far as I can tell AES went away. Back in december there was a version of the ancient port raid area already in the game. I'm sure it has changed by the point was it was there. So it isn't quite true that everything was done in the last year there was a lot of stuff done before I started 1 year before release.
---
Ethion
So you are an Ex-Sigil Employee? Can you confirm or deny this story?
Elidroth was the name from long ago on the beta forums. So assuming it is the same person, he is one of the older devs.
But isn't it sad how all you care about is getting more dirt and turmoil going. Sigil is dead and whatever happened happened. Do we really need to revel in the history of it all? Lets move on and watch the future of vanguard or whatever other new game gets you excited.
This story is a lot more interesting than playing or talking about Vanguard. More confirmation:http://www.fohguild.org/forums/mmorpg-general-discussion/31593-vg-producers-letter-85.html#post950842
Sure he hyped the game and sure he thought it was going to be great? And you know what I bet he believed every word of it?! Does that make him a liar? No but maybe a failure. People who are passionate about something don't necessarily see it with reality and also he has to see it positively he is kinda the spokesman for his company... That was his job...
He hyped more then he could deliver. No question but again he wasn't lying he didn't expect to have to ship when he did and after his circumstances changed it was kinda hard to revise history. Even up till the moment of launch the devs were trying to get things in that he had talked about but it just wasn't possible in the time they had...
I think the only thing I see an issue with, are the continuous vicious attacks on the man.
Im just curious, are you going to give the spokesman a free pass on firing all his employess (you know the ones with mortgages, kids, etc) in the parking lot?
Sure he hyped the game and sure he thought it was going to be great? And you know what I bet he believed every word of it?! Does that make him a liar? No but maybe a failure. People who are passionate about something don't necessarily see it with reality and also he has to see it positively he is kinda the spokesman for his company... That was his job...
He hyped more then he could deliver. No question but again he wasn't lying he didn't expect to have to ship when he did and after his circumstances changed it was kinda hard to revise history. Even up till the moment of launch the devs were trying to get things in that he had talked about but it just wasn't possible in the time they had...
I think the only thing I see an issue with, are the continuous vicious attacks on the man.
Im just curious, are you going to give the spokesman a free pass on firing all his employess (you know the ones with mortgages, kids, etc) in the parking lot?
Like that only happens in the gaming industry , it happens all the time to 1000's of people
I will tell you why it is fun taking shots at Brad, I warned him on his own boards he was making a game for a MINISCULE population of players. The members of that MINISCULE population of lifeless dweebs flamed ME, and Brad banned ME, while they screamed "go play WoW". Like that is some kind of insult! A game 1000000000000000000000 times better then ANY $OE game! He should have banned THEM for being dumb. Some of these MORONS claimed "Vanguard is a WoW killer", idiots should not be allowed to continue to post. Brad should have contacted me, paid me a very large retainer, and I would have told him what to say and what to build, it sure would have been better then listening to Vantards.
Well, I'm one of these, as you like to call it, "MINISCULE" population of players - as I'm quite happy with Vanguard as it is.
I've read a lot of threads to find out what people dont like about Vanguard and honestly I'm still clueless about it.
I mean people give reasons like "there are only 5 hairdos per character". Uh ... yes ? And of course I have to admit - that is indeed a bit low.
And its true, Vanguard requires some hardware to run it, and Vanguard was sadly quite instable in the past, and still has some issues now.
And of course there arent enough players. Thats not the games fault, though.
I have a couple of requests to Vanguard, too - most importantly I miss some good sportive PvP events like castle sieges, and I think the game should be overall a bit harder, at least the higher dot mobs, and it would be cool if the mob AI would be enhanced and made more diverse. For example, why does EVERY mob attack the healer of a group ? There should be SOME mobs who are too stupid to realize that the healer is healing.
Amusingly, nobody mentions these issues ...
But overall Vanguard is a great game with wonderful complex classes, much better than Lineage 2 that I played before. I still miss some things of Lineage 2, such as the Tyrant (the Berserker would be something in that direction), and that my healer was a real healer (here he's more some kind of battlestation). But meh.
But the question is: what exactly is the reason you thought Vanguard was only for a minimal number of players ?
You ask what have you lost $50?
Please send me $50 then i know you are serious?
As to you $50 maybe nothing but to a lot of people that is a lot of money.
I couldnt give a monkey's *** if you lost your job because of Brad that is your business and if you are not upset about it than that fine for you.
But don't come here and say that ohters should not be upset cos they lost only $50, you have no right to even assume that!
So you think a game should come with buildin players ?
Ah the "Go back to WoW." I was told on the VG beta boards to "Go back to WoW." I did not even play WoW at the time.I will tell you why it is fun taking shots at Brad, I warned him on his own boards he was making a game for a MINISCULE population of players. The members of that MINISCULE population of lifeless dweebs flamed ME, and Brad banned ME, while they screamed "go play WoW". Like that is some kind of insult! A game 1000000000000000000000 times better then ANY $OE game! He should have banned THEM for being dumb. Some of these MORONS claimed "Vanguard is a WoW killer", idiots should not be allowed to continue to post. Brad should have contacted me, paid me a very large retainer, and I would have told him what to say and what to build, it sure would have been better then listening to Vantards.
I also remember the VG Players saying there was no problem with the game. Everything was great and VG was the next WoW. It was too retarded to even reply to them. The same type of Players are saying "VG is fixed.", "There are tons of people in VG now."
They were lying then and lying now. I bet they are the same people who say this story is not true.
When you buy a game for $50 you expect it to be in a playable state, VG was not ,regardless of anything.(Unless it states clearly on the box that the game is not compelte and you are buying it at you own risk. Which in this case it does not, not every one trawls the internet before buying a game so saying that they should have known about the state of the game before buying it is not a valid point)
I can't understand how you can say that $50 is nothing, that may well be a kids pocket money for 2 or more months.
Whether it is a luxury or not is beside the point, its all about value for money, even for a full time adult worker $50 is still a considerably sum. Where is the cut off point for you, if you buy 1 game for $50 and it doesnt work how many more can you buy in a month before you can't afford to buy any more?
I have seen no one offering a refund of $50 and as such any ill feeling and abuse should be and is justified, if you feel it is not maybe you will be willing to offer refunds?
I am sure anyone who gets a refund will not be in a postion to bad mouth anyone, until then i feel they get all they deserve.
$50 x 220,000 copies sold = $11,000,000 dollars not including the over 3 million a month in subscription fees.
The IRS can fine you $250 bucks for being a error on your tax return, but talking about IRS and cancer drugs is an apples to oranges comparison.
So it wasnt just me who found something wrong with that sentance...It is not the games fault... so it is the players fault that they dont like the game enough to play it?
My gaming blog
Yeah give me $11,000,000 and i will take any abuse you can throw at me, i won't even mind taking a slap or two lol!
Vulture Skull, don't get me wrong, I am in agreement with you concerning the value of the money and what the consumers deserve. I wasn't being clear on this and that's my fault, but I don't think $50 is nothing - however, nor do I think it is a reason for those who feel cheated to constantly go on tirades and resort to name-calling, destructive speculation and whatnot.
The only reason I pointed out that the product is a luxury is to remind people that on a relative scale, the harm is not so bad. At least, not bad enough to continue having bad feelings over.