"Overall, we have a near complete implementation of the game, speaking of the technology and our feature list." Will we see beta Q1 and release Q4 2008 ? Vapor, scam, beta, release, whatever your religion, you will probably get an answer in 2008
I would not get overly optimistic about that line. We have seen many like it before.
"If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met."
Either way, we will probably have an answer in 2008. There is too much paint on the floor and only time will tell if the devs are in a corner or a doorway
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Beta might be close since they say they have a working version. They should though release more info like after testing we will be starting open beta or what not.
Only problem with this theory is they said they have a 'beta ready' version 10 months ago too. Believe if you want. I'll believe it when I see it.
Oh and the folks who keep saying that it takes 5-7 years to develop a 'decent' MMORPG
Ultima Online: 2 years
EVE: 3 years
EQ1: 3 years
EQ2: 4 years
WOW: 3 years
DAOC: 2 years (Widely regarded as the most stable and complete launch of an MMORPG to date)
AO: 3 years
SWG: 3 years
That's just a short list of "A" titles that took LESS than 5 years to develop. Of the FEW titles that I can think of that took longer than that to develop only 1 comes to mind that is any good: Lord of the Rings Online. Why? Because the title was originally planned in 1999 but Sierra lost rights to produce the game due to multiple delays, concept fights with the Tolkien Foundation and a few other issues. Eventually the title was given to Turbine who did a complete 'start over from scratch' design of the game. From the time Turbine took over the project to the time of release was 4 years. That's from a COMPLETE restart from scratch. And LOTRO had a flawless launch and is another very polished game right at release.
To be honest? I can't think of any MMORPG that's taken longer than 5 years to develop other than LOTRO... anyone know of one?
Age of Conan has been in development since2003 and still not released, so it is a contender.
Edit: The game has been in beta since april 2006, so they may actually have aimed at a 3 year development timestable.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Beta might be close since they say they have a working version. They should though release more info like after testing we will be starting open beta or what not.
Only problem with this theory is they said they have a 'beta ready' version 10 months ago too. Believe if you want. I'll believe it when I see it.
Oh and the folks who keep saying that it takes 5-7 years to develop a 'decent' MMORPG
Ultima Online: 2 years
EVE: 3 years
EQ1: 3 years
EQ2: 4 years
WOW: 3 years
DAOC: 2 years (Widely regarded as the most stable and complete launch of an MMORPG to date)
AO: 3 years
SWG: 3 years
That's just a short list of "A" titles that took LESS than 5 years to develop. Of the FEW titles that I can think of that took longer than that to develop only 1 comes to mind that is any good: Lord of the Rings Online. Why? Because the title was originally planned in 1999 but Sierra lost rights to produce the game due to multiple delays, concept fights with the Tolkien Foundation and a few other issues. Eventually the title was given to Turbine who did a complete 'start over from scratch' design of the game. From the time Turbine took over the project to the time of release was 4 years. That's from a COMPLETE restart from scratch. And LOTRO had a flawless launch and is another very polished game right at release.
To be honest? I can't think of any MMORPG that's taken longer than 5 years to develop other than LOTRO... anyone know of one?
Age of Conan has been in development since2003 and still not released, so it is a contender.
Edit: The game has been in beta since april 2006, so they may actually have aimed at a 3 year development timestable.
Warhammer was originally in Development before WoW. Dont know how long, but I remember hearing about it.
"Warhammer was originally in Development before WoW. Dont know how long, but I remember hearing about it."
The initial warhammer mmo development was done by another company totally and was scrapped (not 100% sure why, lot's of speculation is around though) in it's entirety. Everything that mythic has done has been without any influence of the original mmo. However, with that said the WAR engine is an evolution of mythics already existing DAOC engine which saves time in development (and experience).
"Warhammer was originally in Development before WoW. Dont know how long, but I remember hearing about it."
The initial warhammer mmo development was done by another company totally and was scrapped (not 100% sure why, lot's of speculation is around though) in it's entirety. Everything that mythic has done has been without any influence of the original mmo. However, with that said the WAR engine is an evolution of mythics already existing DAOC engine which saves time in development (and experience).
Ah. I just remembering hearing about it. Never really looked into it as I was deep into SWG at the time.
Originally posted by Taram DAOC: 2 years (Widely regarded as the most stable and complete launch of an MMORPG to date)
I'm a DAOC fan, and I have to correct this myth that seems to be popping up lately. Yes, DAOC launched very smoothly, but it was far from a "complete" game. In their own words " Because we put off doing the technical designs for the interior spaces for so long, in the end we simply didn't get enough of them done. The game launched with only three capital cities (one per Realm) and about 15 dungeons."
Yes it 'only' launched with that. However there was plenty of content for people to go from level 1 to level 50 on without ever having issues. What was in was very well done and very complete. The only reason they made that statement was because the power-gamers were out-levelling the content so damn fast (people who played 10-15hrs a day, people who played 2-4 hrs a day never ran out of content by any stretch of the immagination)
Facinating read by the way, seems they really made the game in about 18 months due to budget constraints. I also recall reading about the game in CGW when it released, and although they gave great props to its launch, they did mention it was missing a some character levels (I think you could only get to level 40 at first) and the RVR frontiers and Battlegrounds were put in some time shortly after launch. Unfortunately I couldn't find a link to it.
Not saying they did a bad thing, but people might want to keep this in mind with the upcoming launches, expect some content to be missing for a while. Therefore, DF might also have to take the same approach and release a subset of features at launch.
Nope it wasn't missing any levels. Some of the CASTER classes were complaining because they got fewer skills/spells at higher levels (completely ignoring the fact that what they did get was devastatingly powerful). They had additional content added in for those classes patched in within a couple months (long before the average player hit that level).
Bottom line they under-estimated how fast people would level! LOL Who'da thunk that people would be grinding away for 18hrs a day to race to 50... ungh it was a sick crazy time.
No game ever has released with "enough" content. The player base always outpaces the content and starts screaming for more. WoW didn't even manage it.
The game was COMPLETE. The Mechanics were COMPLETE. The content was COMPLETE they just needed more of it because carebear powerlevellers were burning through it so fast. the PVP'ers (and make no mistake, DAOC is/was/always has been a PVP game at it's core) while they levelled just as quickly were not burning out the content as fast because, frankly, we were too busy having fun finding new ways of killing each other.
Reading a review and reading dev comments out of context with the situation will never give you the full story. I was there when DAOC released. It got glowing reviews because it simply was one of the best MMORPG launches I have ever seen and the game had so few bugs at release. There were a few that were out there but NOTHING like any other MMO before (or after) it. Even LOTR's launch wasn't as smooth.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Actually, WoW was 5 years. Blizzard started not too long after WoW Adventures was canned. Shadowbane was 5 years. Not too many that go beyond five, but 4-5 seems to be the average these days.
From the time they announced that they were working on WoW to the time it released: 3 years <-- The total time their fanbase had to 'wait' for the game. Actual development cycles took around 4 years though. This is because they worked on the concepts and did the basic storyline development before they announced the game. By the time it was announced they had the background stuff taken care of and were actually coding the game.
Originally posted by daarco And all those MMOs were developed by big companys with many often over 200 people working. DF have 25+ people working. The first few years they were four people. And some people forget that Aventurine is a small indie company.
Mythic, CCP, Turbine and Funcom are NOT "big companies with 'many often over 200 people working'. Or, rather, they weren't before they hit it huge with the MMO titles that got them 'started'.
All of them released their games in 4 years or less.
Care to try again?
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
How can you follow a game that you think is vapoware? That doeas not make sense.
Because even Vaporware has the possibility of eventually becoming real. Right now this game has strayed into the realm of vapors.... it COULD find it's way back into the land of reality but it's been vaporware for a while now. When they actually start an active Beta? Then it'll be real, not until at this point. Too many missed dates and too many misleading statements.
Also, something the blindly faithful seem to forget: Just because we think the game is vaporware at this point doesn't mean that we want it to fail. On the contrary.... I would LOVE to see Darkfall turn out to be a real game that's actually going to release. I've just lost faith that these guys are going to do it. The features, the concept I love them. I've been following this game since it was announced in 2000/2001. I've been eagerly awaiting it for years... but about 3 years ago I gave up hope and just check in every now and then in the hopes that beta has started. And every time I check I see the SAME comments I saw 4 years ago.
What you guys fail to realize is that most of us saying it's vaporware have been watching this title for years in the hopes it would come out. Most of us are UO Vets that would love nothing more than another game truely built in the fassion that UO was. Darkfall promises to be like that.
But right now?? That's all it is... promises.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Im guessing as they are making this game, they are also changing it, seeing how current flops that is out and learning the mistake that others make. But if this game really comes out, it wont be for another 2 years or more.
And all those MMOs were developed by big companys with many often over 200 people working.
DF have 25+ people working. The first few years they were four people. And some people forget that Aventurine is a small indie company.
Mythic, CCP, Turbine and Funcom are NOT "big companies with 'many often over 200 people working'. Or, rather, they weren't before they hit it huge with the MMO titles that got them 'started'.
All of them released their games in 4 years or less.
Care to try again?
Um, all of them developed games that were not very ambitious and some where subpar in quality at launch. DF will be competing with products developed by 200+ companies today. Ie FUNCOM has 288 emplyees now and have developed AoC since 2003. That means FUNCOM will break the 5 year barrier.
Care to try again ?
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Because even Vaporware has the possibility of eventually becoming real. Right now this game has strayed into the realm of vapors.... it COULD find it's way back into the land of reality but it's been vaporware for a while now. When they actually start an active Beta? Then it'll be real, not until at this point. Too many missed dates and too many misleading statements. Also, something the blindly faithful seem to forget:
Just because we think the game is vaporware at this point doesn't mean that we want it to fail. On the contrary.... I would LOVE to see Darkfall turn out to be a real game that's actually going to release. I've just lost faith that these guys are going to do it. The features, the concept I love them. I've been following this game since it was announced in 2000/2001. I've been eagerly awaiting it for years... but about 3 years ago I gave up hope and just check in every now and then in the hopes that beta has started. And every time I check I see the SAME comments I saw 4 years ago. What you guys fail to realize is that most of us saying it's vaporware have been watching this title for years in the hopes it would come out. Most of us are UO Vets that would love nothing more than another game truely built in the fassion that UO was. Darkfall promises to be like that. But right now?? That's all it is... promises.
What I fail to understand what is wrong with promises ? What are you actually trying to achieve with crying vaporware all the time ?
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
TBH, I'm not 'Waiting' for darkfall, I don't sit at my computer and wait for it's release, If it doesn't release it doesn't bother me, if it does release then i'll play it. I havn't been 'Waiting' at my PC for darkfall for 7 years, I've simply been living my life while following it's development.
Shill accounts such as 28days (95% of posts in the darkfall forum, 100% trolling) wait on darkfall, they look for every moment to jump in and say OMG VAPORWARE, Although most don't listen to such comments they still continue.
The fact is that when darkfall is released, these kids that cry vaporware will be playing it just as i will, and thats the cold hard fact that you can't deny.
Thanks for reading.
Pre-cu Fanbois, There will be no rollback. Go outside - Get a life, It's not coming back. We arn't giving you your game-back. So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years. Pre-cu Fanbois.
Shill accounts such as 28days (95% of posts in the darkfall forum, 100% trolling)
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it.
See how that works?
Originally posted by Jenus1 The fact is that when darkfall is released, these kids that cry vaporware will be playing it just as i will,
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time.
You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly?
Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again.
Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies...
Shill accounts such as 28days (95% of posts in the darkfall forum, 100% trolling)
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it.
See how that works?
Originally posted by Jenus1 The fact is that when darkfall is released, these kids that cry vaporware will be playing it just as i will,
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time.
You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly?
Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again.
Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies...
Originally posted by Xris375 Originally posted by Taram
Originally posted by daarco And all those MMOs were developed by big companys with many often over 200 people working. DF have 25+ people working. The first few years they were four people. And some people forget that Aventurine is a small indie company.
Mythic, CCP, Turbine and Funcom are NOT "big companies with 'many often over 200 people working'. Or, rather, they weren't before they hit it huge with the MMO titles that got them 'started'. All of them released their games in 4 years or less. Care to try again?
Um, all of them developed games that were not very ambitious and some where subpar in quality at launch. DF will be competing with products developed by 200+ companies today. Ie FUNCOM has 288 emplyees now and have developed AoC since 2003. That means FUNCOM will break the 5 year barrier. Care to try again ?
LOL Wait... Asheron's Call wasn't a very ambitious title? The first seamless world ever? A skill based system? One of the first 3D environments (alongside EQ) to ever be released? A true heirarchy system? Live dynamic updates without taking servers down? That wasn't very ambitious for the times?
Wait... then there's DAOC... not very ambitious... the first RVR fantasy game. First to introduce factional warfare (well technically AO did as well but they released simultanously). One of the best PVP systems released, ever, if not the best (many players do seem to think so). But no that wasn't very ambitious not at all.
Hmm ok so maybe you were just forgetting those... lets look at Anarchy Online then (that would be the funcom title I'm talking about, not AoC)... oh wait.... first Sci Fi MMORPG. First game server to allow 50,000 users per server (not simultanous). In depth skill talent system with incredible character customization. First to experiment with in game flight. First to have rideable vehicles/mounts/etc. First to implement a mission system. One of the better PVP systems (similar to DAOC's but imo not quite as good. To this day one of the better sci-fi MMO's on the market. First to implement shared missions/quests/adventures where everyone in a group shared the reward rather than having to camp a spawn for hours so each person in a group could get one.
Hmm... nope still not getting where you are coming from....
Maybe you were talking about EVE? Let's see: Truely skill based progression True in-game player driven, player controlled economy In game player control of territory Extensive player crafting system In depth faction system First game to ever actually accomplish keeping every single player on the same server cluster. Holds ever record in the books for simultaneous players online in a single instance of a game world. Free expansions
Well damn... I'm sorry every single one of them were evidently pretty darn ambitious and deep games in their own right.
The rest of your statement makes absolutely no sense since every single title I listed was developed by a small company (at the time) and was competing with titles the likes of Ultima Online, Lineage I and II, EverQuest and others. Sure the playing field is bigger now but it certainly isn't any better. WoW really isn't much better than EQ, certainly there's nothing out there that really rivals EVE. DAOC is STILL ranked as a top 10 MMORPG in popularity and quality... AO is still a standard that other games aspire to.
Bottom line: Adventurine isn't any smaller than CCP was. In fact Adventurine has it easier. CCP funded their game completely out of pocket. No grants, no big backers, no government subsidies. Mythic did their development 100% out of pocket as well. Not sure on Funcom or Turbine but they were also small indie companies.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Originally posted by Xris375 Originally posted by Taram
Because even Vaporware has the possibility of eventually becoming real. Right now this game has strayed into the realm of vapors.... it COULD find it's way back into the land of reality but it's been vaporware for a while now. When they actually start an active Beta? Then it'll be real, not until at this point. Too many missed dates and too many misleading statements. Also, something the blindly faithful seem to forget: Just because we think the game is vaporware at this point doesn't mean that we want it to fail. On the contrary.... I would LOVE to see Darkfall turn out to be a real game that's actually going to release. I've just lost faith that these guys are going to do it. The features, the concept I love them. I've been following this game since it was announced in 2000/2001. I've been eagerly awaiting it for years... but about 3 years ago I gave up hope and just check in every now and then in the hopes that beta has started. And every time I check I see the SAME comments I saw 4 years ago. What you guys fail to realize is that most of us saying it's vaporware have been watching this title for years in the hopes it would come out. Most of us are UO Vets that would love nothing more than another game truely built in the fassion that UO was. Darkfall promises to be like that. But right now?? That's all it is... promises.
What I fail to understand what is wrong with promises ? What are you actually trying to achieve with crying vaporware all the time ?
I dont. This is the only title I've EVER considered to be vaporware. And as to why? I think I've made that pretty clear:
Because the developer is not being completely honest with us. They have been saying, for several years now, that the game is nearly ready for beta. That story has NEVER changed in the past 3 years. They've issued statements and released beta dates. Even given projected release dates. Not once, not twice... but 3 times now... every single beta date and every single release date has gone by with the same types of statements:
The game is ready for beta, we just need to adjust some things (or words to that effect). Go back and look it up. THAT is why I think this title has become vaporware. Because that is exactly what it is. A bunch of promises with no evidence to back them up.
At this point? "I'll believe it when I see it"
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Originally posted by 28days Originally posted by Jenus1 Shill accounts such as 28days (95% of posts in the darkfall forum, 100% trolling)
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it. See how that works?
Originally posted by Jenus1 The fact is that when darkfall is released, these kids that cry vaporware will be playing it just as i will,
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time. You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly? Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again. Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies... Thanks for reading.
Interesting points. Personally I agree with the statement that people are sick of hearing fans post about how awesome darkfall is going to be. I can't tell the number of threads I've seen in the general forums saying things to the effect of "ZOMG Darfkall is going to be da bestest game EVAR!!!!!"
IF Darkfall lives up to it's promises it will certainly be one of them. But people posting in threads that it's awesome or it's the best or it's the one to be looking for.... need to remember: People have been posting things like that here, and in other gaming forums, for SEVEN YEARS. I am looking forward to this game ***IF*** it ever releases. I'm not sure it's going to at this point. After 8 years in development it's kind of unlikely but as long as there's a dev team there's still a chance they'll get it published. Problem is that at this point, even with the revamped engine (from 2004) the game is going to be dated on it's first day of beta. The engine is already over 5 years old. So while, yes, there's a chance they could actually release it the odds of it living up to expectations, given todays technology and the expectations that go along with it... releasing it on an engine that's nearly 5 years old isn't exactly going to be putting it's best foot forward.
That's *IF* it actually does make it to beta. And, frankly, I don't honestly believe that's going to happen. It's been 'ready for beta' for an awful long bloody time.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Shill accounts such as 28days (95% of posts in the darkfall forum, 100% trolling)
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it.
See how that works?
Originally posted by Jenus1 The fact is that when darkfall is released, these kids that cry vaporware will be playing it just as i will,
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time.
You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly?
Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again.
Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies...
Thanks for reading.
You really shouldn't take this all so seriously. Creating alt accounts, running a campaign of hate and anger against DF and its supporters, and saying the developers breaking promises about a games release date makes enemies.
Trust me, you have to do far more injury to me to consider me an "enemy." Heck, I've even forgiven Brad for Vanguard.
If you are really sick and tired of hearing about DF, don't read the threads anymore. Don't create any new ones. Go play the game/read the forums that you really enjoy, and you'll be happy again.
But really, you enjoy the drama, admit it, that's why you're here.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
I would not get overly optimistic about that line. We have seen many like it before.
Dev Journal #12
"Technically we're ready for a beta test today, and every day that goes by, we get more ready."
Dev Journal #13
"Today (Friday) we have a new Darkfall version up, which is almost feature complete."
Dev Journal #15
"If there's an interesting development it's that we've narrowed in on a specific beta date and we should be announcing it very soon, right after we make sure that a couple of conditions are met."
Either way, we will probably have an answer in 2008. There is too much paint on the floor and only time will tell if the devs are in a corner or a doorway
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Only problem with this theory is they said they have a 'beta ready' version 10 months ago too. Believe if you want. I'll believe it when I see it.
Oh and the folks who keep saying that it takes 5-7 years to develop a 'decent' MMORPG
Ultima Online: 2 years
EVE: 3 years
EQ1: 3 years
EQ2: 4 years
WOW: 3 years
DAOC: 2 years (Widely regarded as the most stable and complete launch of an MMORPG to date)
AO: 3 years
SWG: 3 years
That's just a short list of "A" titles that took LESS than 5 years to develop. Of the FEW titles that I can think of that took longer than that to develop only 1 comes to mind that is any good: Lord of the Rings Online. Why? Because the title was originally planned in 1999 but Sierra lost rights to produce the game due to multiple delays, concept fights with the Tolkien Foundation and a few other issues. Eventually the title was given to Turbine who did a complete 'start over from scratch' design of the game. From the time Turbine took over the project to the time of release was 4 years. That's from a COMPLETE restart from scratch. And LOTRO had a flawless launch and is another very polished game right at release.
To be honest? I can't think of any MMORPG that's taken longer than 5 years to develop other than LOTRO... anyone know of one?
Age of Conan has been in development since2003 and still not released, so it is a contender.
Edit: The game has been in beta since april 2006, so they may actually have aimed at a 3 year development timestable.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
And all those MMOs were developed by big companys with many often over 200 people working.
DF have 25+ people working. The first few years they were four people. And some people forget that Aventurine is a small indie company.
Only problem with this theory is they said they have a 'beta ready' version 10 months ago too. Believe if you want. I'll believe it when I see it.
Oh and the folks who keep saying that it takes 5-7 years to develop a 'decent' MMORPG
Ultima Online: 2 years
EVE: 3 years
EQ1: 3 years
EQ2: 4 years
WOW: 3 years
DAOC: 2 years (Widely regarded as the most stable and complete launch of an MMORPG to date)
AO: 3 years
SWG: 3 years
That's just a short list of "A" titles that took LESS than 5 years to develop. Of the FEW titles that I can think of that took longer than that to develop only 1 comes to mind that is any good: Lord of the Rings Online. Why? Because the title was originally planned in 1999 but Sierra lost rights to produce the game due to multiple delays, concept fights with the Tolkien Foundation and a few other issues. Eventually the title was given to Turbine who did a complete 'start over from scratch' design of the game. From the time Turbine took over the project to the time of release was 4 years. That's from a COMPLETE restart from scratch. And LOTRO had a flawless launch and is another very polished game right at release.
To be honest? I can't think of any MMORPG that's taken longer than 5 years to develop other than LOTRO... anyone know of one?
Age of Conan has been in development since2003 and still not released, so it is a contender.
Edit: The game has been in beta since april 2006, so they may actually have aimed at a 3 year development timestable.
Warhammer was originally in Development before WoW. Dont know how long, but I remember hearing about it.
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
Actually, WoW was 5 years. Blizzard started not too long after WoW Adventures was canned.
Shadowbane was 5 years. Not too many that go beyond five, but 4-5 seems to be the average these days.
"Warhammer was originally in Development before WoW. Dont know how long, but I remember hearing about it."
The initial warhammer mmo development was done by another company totally and was scrapped (not 100% sure why, lot's of speculation is around though) in it's entirety. Everything that mythic has done has been without any influence of the original mmo. However, with that said the WAR engine is an evolution of mythics already existing DAOC engine which saves time in development (and experience).
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E
Ah. I just remembering hearing about it. Never really looked into it as I was deep into SWG at the time.
Thalos Vipav
Star Wars Galaxies: R.I.P.
Yes it 'only' launched with that. However there was plenty of content for people to go from level 1 to level 50 on without ever having issues. What was in was very well done and very complete. The only reason they made that statement was because the power-gamers were out-levelling the content so damn fast (people who played 10-15hrs a day, people who played 2-4 hrs a day never ran out of content by any stretch of the immagination)
I was there. Were you?
Nope it wasn't missing any levels. Some of the CASTER classes were complaining because they got fewer skills/spells at higher levels (completely ignoring the fact that what they did get was devastatingly powerful). They had additional content added in for those classes patched in within a couple months (long before the average player hit that level).
Bottom line they under-estimated how fast people would level! LOL Who'da thunk that people would be grinding away for 18hrs a day to race to 50... ungh it was a sick crazy time.
No game ever has released with "enough" content. The player base always outpaces the content and starts screaming for more. WoW didn't even manage it.
The game was COMPLETE. The Mechanics were COMPLETE. The content was COMPLETE they just needed more of it because carebear powerlevellers were burning through it so fast. the PVP'ers (and make no mistake, DAOC is/was/always has been a PVP game at it's core) while they levelled just as quickly were not burning out the content as fast because, frankly, we were too busy having fun finding new ways of killing each other.
Reading a review and reading dev comments out of context with the situation will never give you the full story. I was there when DAOC released. It got glowing reviews because it simply was one of the best MMORPG launches I have ever seen and the game had so few bugs at release. There were a few that were out there but NOTHING like any other MMO before (or after) it. Even LOTR's launch wasn't as smooth.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
From the time they announced that they were working on WoW to the time it released: 3 years <-- The total time their fanbase had to 'wait' for the game.
Actual development cycles took around 4 years though. This is because they worked on the concepts and did the basic storyline development before they announced the game. By the time it was announced they had the background stuff taken care of and were actually coding the game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_of_Warcraft#Development
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
Mythic, CCP, Turbine and Funcom are NOT "big companies with 'many often over 200 people working'. Or, rather, they weren't before they hit it huge with the MMO titles that got them 'started'.
All of them released their games in 4 years or less.
Care to try again?
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
How can you follow a game that you think is vapoware? That doeas not make sense.
Because even Vaporware has the possibility of eventually becoming real. Right now this game has strayed into the realm of vapors.... it COULD find it's way back into the land of reality but it's been vaporware for a while now. When they actually start an active Beta? Then it'll be real, not until at this point. Too many missed dates and too many misleading statements.
Also, something the blindly faithful seem to forget:
Just because we think the game is vaporware at this point doesn't mean that we want it to fail. On the contrary.... I would LOVE to see Darkfall turn out to be a real game that's actually going to release. I've just lost faith that these guys are going to do it. The features, the concept I love them. I've been following this game since it was announced in 2000/2001. I've been eagerly awaiting it for years... but about 3 years ago I gave up hope and just check in every now and then in the hopes that beta has started. And every time I check I see the SAME comments I saw 4 years ago.
What you guys fail to realize is that most of us saying it's vaporware have been watching this title for years in the hopes it would come out. Most of us are UO Vets that would love nothing more than another game truely built in the fassion that UO was. Darkfall promises to be like that.
But right now?? That's all it is... promises.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I too find it hard to believe that Vaporfall is going to be released.
Playing: BF2142
Waiting For: Jumpgate: Evolution
Played: UO, DAoC, MCO, EQ, AO, TSO, Shadowbane, Planetside, SWG, FFXI, CoH, L2, EQ2, WoW, MxO, EVE, AoC
Played 6mo+: UO, EVE
Im guessing as they are making this game, they are also changing it, seeing how current flops that is out and learning the mistake that others make. But if this game really comes out, it wont be for another 2 years or more.
RIP Orc Choppa
Mythic, CCP, Turbine and Funcom are NOT "big companies with 'many often over 200 people working'. Or, rather, they weren't before they hit it huge with the MMO titles that got them 'started'.
All of them released their games in 4 years or less.
Care to try again?
Um, all of them developed games that were not very ambitious and some where subpar in quality at launch. DF will be competing with products developed by 200+ companies today. Ie FUNCOM has 288 emplyees now and have developed AoC since 2003. That means FUNCOM will break the 5 year barrier.Care to try again ?
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
What I fail to understand what is wrong with promises ? What are you actually trying to achieve with crying vaporware all the time ?
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
TBH, I'm not 'Waiting' for darkfall, I don't sit at my computer and wait for it's release, If it doesn't release it doesn't bother me, if it does release then i'll play it. I havn't been 'Waiting' at my PC for darkfall for 7 years, I've simply been living my life while following it's development.
Shill accounts such as 28days (95% of posts in the darkfall forum, 100% trolling) wait on darkfall, they look for every moment to jump in and say OMG VAPORWARE, Although most don't listen to such comments they still continue.
The fact is that when darkfall is released, these kids that cry vaporware will be playing it just as i will, and thats the cold hard fact that you can't deny.
Thanks for reading.
Pre-cu Fanbois,
There will be no rollback.
Go outside - Get a life,
It's not coming back.
We arn't giving you your game-back.
So go outside, and realize that you've wasted 2 years.
Pre-cu Fanbois.
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it.
See how that works?
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time.
You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly?
Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again.
Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies...
Thanks for reading.
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it.
See how that works?
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time.
You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly?
Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again.
Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies...
Thanks for reading.
But yet your in here posting.
Mythic, CCP, Turbine and Funcom are NOT "big companies with 'many often over 200 people working'. Or, rather, they weren't before they hit it huge with the MMO titles that got them 'started'.
All of them released their games in 4 years or less.
Care to try again?
Um, all of them developed games that were not very ambitious and some where subpar in quality at launch. DF will be competing with products developed by 200+ companies today. Ie FUNCOM has 288 emplyees now and have developed AoC since 2003. That means FUNCOM will break the 5 year barrier.
Care to try again ?
LOL
Wait... Asheron's Call wasn't a very ambitious title? The first seamless world ever? A skill based system? One of the first 3D environments (alongside EQ) to ever be released? A true heirarchy system? Live dynamic updates without taking servers down? That wasn't very ambitious for the times?
Wait... then there's DAOC... not very ambitious... the first RVR fantasy game. First to introduce factional warfare (well technically AO did as well but they released simultanously). One of the best PVP systems released, ever, if not the best (many players do seem to think so). But no that wasn't very ambitious not at all.
Hmm ok so maybe you were just forgetting those... lets look at Anarchy Online then (that would be the funcom title I'm talking about, not AoC)... oh wait.... first Sci Fi MMORPG. First game server to allow 50,000 users per server (not simultanous). In depth skill talent system with incredible character customization. First to experiment with in game flight. First to have rideable vehicles/mounts/etc. First to implement a mission system. One of the better PVP systems (similar to DAOC's but imo not quite as good. To this day one of the better sci-fi MMO's on the market. First to implement shared missions/quests/adventures where everyone in a group shared the reward rather than having to camp a spawn for hours so each person in a group could get one.
Hmm... nope still not getting where you are coming from....
Maybe you were talking about EVE?
Let's see:
Truely skill based progression
True in-game player driven, player controlled economy
In game player control of territory
Extensive player crafting system
In depth faction system
First game to ever actually accomplish keeping every single player on the same server cluster. Holds ever record in the books for simultaneous players online in a single instance of a game world.
Free expansions
Well damn... I'm sorry every single one of them were evidently pretty darn ambitious and deep games in their own right.
The rest of your statement makes absolutely no sense since every single title I listed was developed by a small company (at the time) and was competing with titles the likes of Ultima Online, Lineage I and II, EverQuest and others. Sure the playing field is bigger now but it certainly isn't any better. WoW really isn't much better than EQ, certainly there's nothing out there that really rivals EVE. DAOC is STILL ranked as a top 10 MMORPG in popularity and quality... AO is still a standard that other games aspire to.
Bottom line: Adventurine isn't any smaller than CCP was. In fact Adventurine has it easier. CCP funded their game completely out of pocket. No grants, no big backers, no government subsidies. Mythic did their development 100% out of pocket as well. Not sure on Funcom or Turbine but they were also small indie companies.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I dont. This is the only title I've EVER considered to be vaporware. And as to why? I think I've made that pretty clear:
Because the developer is not being completely honest with us. They have been saying, for several years now, that the game is nearly ready for beta. That story has NEVER changed in the past 3 years. They've issued statements and released beta dates. Even given projected release dates. Not once, not twice... but 3 times now... every single beta date and every single release date has gone by with the same types of statements:
The game is ready for beta, we just need to adjust some things (or words to that effect). Go back and look it up. THAT is why I think this title has become vaporware. Because that is exactly what it is. A bunch of promises with no evidence to back them up.
At this point? "I'll believe it when I see it"
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it.
See how that works?
Originally posted by Jenus1
The fact is that when darkfall is released, these kids that cry vaporware will be playing it just as i will,
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time.
You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly?
Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again.
Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies...
Thanks for reading.
Interesting points. Personally I agree with the statement that people are sick of hearing fans post about how awesome darkfall is going to be. I can't tell the number of threads I've seen in the general forums saying things to the effect of "ZOMG Darfkall is going to be da bestest game EVAR!!!!!"
IF Darkfall lives up to it's promises it will certainly be one of them. But people posting in threads that it's awesome or it's the best or it's the one to be looking for.... need to remember: People have been posting things like that here, and in other gaming forums, for SEVEN YEARS. I am looking forward to this game ***IF*** it ever releases. I'm not sure it's going to at this point. After 8 years in development it's kind of unlikely but as long as there's a dev team there's still a chance they'll get it published. Problem is that at this point, even with the revamped engine (from 2004) the game is going to be dated on it's first day of beta. The engine is already over 5 years old. So while, yes, there's a chance they could actually release it the odds of it living up to expectations, given todays technology and the expectations that go along with it... releasing it on an engine that's nearly 5 years old isn't exactly going to be putting it's best foot forward.
That's *IF* it actually does make it to beta. And, frankly, I don't honestly believe that's going to happen. It's been 'ready for beta' for an awful long bloody time.
"A ship-of-war is the best ambassador." - Oliver Cromwell
I think you're a shill account too. constantly posting in the Darkfall forums defending it.
See how that works?
The fact is , the odds of it actually releasing and being what it claims to be are hovering near 0 at this point in time.
You want to know people troll the DF boards and cry vaporware and dog it constantly?
Because people are sick and tired of hearing about it. That's why. sick and tired of hearing it's delusional fans making posts about how Godly it is or is going to be for the last 6+ years with zero evidence to support those claims. Tired of all the missed deadlines , broken promises , lies , and horrid PR from it's devs.. That's why Darkfall actually has enemies and not only critics.. because people feel cheated and made to look like fools by the so called developers time and time again.
Stringing people along for 7 years with empty promises is going to make you a few enemies...
Thanks for reading.
You really shouldn't take this all so seriously. Creating alt accounts, running a campaign of hate and anger against DF and its supporters, and saying the developers breaking promises about a games release date makes enemies.
Trust me, you have to do far more injury to me to consider me an "enemy." Heck, I've even forgiven Brad for Vanguard.
If you are really sick and tired of hearing about DF, don't read the threads anymore. Don't create any new ones. Go play the game/read the forums that you really enjoy, and you'll be happy again.
But really, you enjoy the drama, admit it, that's why you're here.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
this is why people view them as trolls in them selfs or payed because if they didnt create threads they would even have to here about it so much