A few technical definitions are in order Zones are areas in the game world that are constrained by cave walls, mountains, cliffs or similar obstacles. They are there to constrain what the game engine has to render and to limit the textures for that area of the world. an example from wow of a zone is something like the Wetlands and Arathi Highlands. These are two game areas. Zones are connected by passages and different games provide different mechanisms for moving from one zone to another. EQ had just a freezing screen originally, eq2 has a loading screen, wow does a passageway where they hide the transition making it appear smooth. An instance is a copy of the zone. Most games can have one or more copies of a zone. Generally world areas only have one copy or one instance. This however can lead to problems when something like everyone in the game decides to go to a single zone all at once. The zone becomes overloaded. So eq2 decided to spawn instances when the zone was overloaded. They set a player cap on the zone and if there are more then say 150 people in a zone they create a second instance of that zone. When you transition into that zone you have a choice of what instance to go into. The other thing that was done and I think AO was the first was to make a zone spawn an instance based on a group. So when a group zoned into a dungeon or a special zone and instance was created for that group. Then eq2 and wow took this to the next logical step and had instances for raid areas. So all zones are instances. Some zones have 1 or more instances. Instances can be created based on zone populations, a group, a raid, or even an individual.
A very good definition. Instancing help you move hardware resources around. Why use alot of HW on Thunderbluff when everyone is in Ogrimmar (sorry for the WoW example ) ?
On PvP servers you may or may not be vulnerable as your character is transfered from one server to the next. In vanguard I got killed all the time by chunk campers
EDIT: Another vulnerability is the build in invisibility. You cannot see across zoneboarders. A nice place to put ambushed in other words.
--- And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there. John Smedley, SOE
Ok...i asked around AOC have the same kind of instancing like Tabula Rasa. World is sharded - meaning that zones can have few duplicates , and you can choose which one you enter GREAT! Worked wonders in TR
Worked great in CoH/V and EQ2 as well. It's a tech a lot of MMOGs use these days to great effect.
Thx Ethion for a good definition of what a zone and an instance is. Far to many people confuse them. I tried to define the two earlier, and a few people seemed to have gotten it, but most didn't.
I think, you have never said, that Zones could be instanced too, or I miss something?
Friend: Wait...i don't see anyone...and i am right by em!
Me: Oh...get into the right zone!!!!
Is that how it works? there will be severel copies of the same area? Sigh....so i can potentially run into town and such and not be in the same zone as some friends running through the same city? A la Guild Wars?
As far as I understand it there could be several instances of an outland zone but there is only going to be one instance per city. So you are in instance 3 of outland area B. You then enter the city 1 and are automatically in the same instance as everybody else that is currently roaming the town. Someone correct me if I am misinterpreting something here.
*************************** Remember, remember the 5th of November ***************************
so...wait.... me: hey man we going to trounce XXX city! Friend: sweet....where do we want to meet up Me: We are all in City ABCD by the potion dealer! Friend: Wait...i don't see anyone...and i am right by em! Me: Oh...get into the right zone!!!!
Is that how it works? there will be severel copies of the same area? Sigh....so i can potentially run into town and such and not be in the same zone as some friends running through the same city? A la Guild Wars?
so...wait.... me: hey man we going to trounce XXX city! Friend: sweet....where do we want to meet up Me: We are all in City ABCD by the potion dealer! Friend: Wait...i don't see anyone...and i am right by em! Me: Oh...get into the right zone!!!!
Is that how it works? there will be severel copies of the same area? Sigh....so i can potentially run into town and such and not be in the same zone as some friends running through the same city? A la Guild Wars?
If you dont understand how it works
I suggest you go and play some MMOs
oh you so funny....
i suggest you go back and learn to read. I was asking a very simple question, because alot of people are confusing with their terms zoning and instancing...and if you read the part 3 news article...i am right...there will be multiple instances of the same zone in SOME areas.....
Hence my guild wars reference. And sonny..don't be insulting people who have a ton of experience. But go ahead and put your AoC fanbois hat back on...its ok....to those of us wishing for more info, we can continue to ask questions with out the rosey glasses on.
1.Private instance: Only you and members of the group can enter this instance (mind the group can be raid group too).There can be infinite number of such instanced opened on the server.This instance resets after you leave. Example:Missions in DDO,Missions in AO,World in GW,Dungeons in WOW
2.Public instance (or shard): Unlike private instance , public one can host huge number of players, which do not have to be in group. They are persistant , and inside effect remain after you or everyone leaves. There is limited number of public instances of same zone on the server. You can usually chose which of similar public instances you want to enter. Example: Cities in DDO , Cities in GW , Cities in EQ2, World map in TR.
3.Zone: Zone is almost nothing like instance only similarity is that entering new zone brings up the loading screen like for above mentioned instances. There is only one of each zone on the server. Example: World in EQ2
And the answer is:
AOC will fall into category 2. Public instance (or Shard).
And remember. When you enter public instance. You always enter the first one. Unless the first one is over populated (which can be after 1000 players or more are inside).You can choose to enter any instance you want.
ok but the numbers may be different but the idea is the same. So basically it is multiple instances...thats what i was asking. Why is it that people have legitmate questions, and others always feel the need to jump on their backs....not only in AoC but any game...it really puts people off when they have some interest in a game. Granted mine may be waning, but elitist attitudes don't help.
I hate instances. I hink they break the imersion and make harder to interact with other ppl. Maybe in some special situations they are needed but mostly i think they suck. Depending on how much and what is gonna be instanced it might make the game a lot less atractive for me.
Sounds about right as Lobotomist explains it, especially if they use the same system AO has. Outside areas in AO are huge although you need to zone to each individual area. Town areas are smaller but still a lot bigger than EQ2. Of course, we're talking about two games with different requirements in computing power, so noone can tell (besides the beta testers) how big the town shards are. Building shards are annoying but not overly.
Then again AO is a two faction PvP game so I'm not sure how sharding will work in a FFA server. But they can put a timer on you so you can't zone if you're PvP enabled (like EVE has an aggression timer, only you wouldn't be able to warp to another system if you were PvP enabled for example. They can definitely be creative with the system and it's one that can be tweaked even after the game launches.
This is practically like no instance at all. Or should i say, if this type of instance was not existing, they should invent it.
Ill give you an example of how awsome this type of instance is.
Take Tabula Rasa.
You have 4 instances of Wilderness zone. Everyone plays in zone 1
You get a quest to rescue villagers from Bane attack...right. You go there and see , few other groups camping the same quest. And after them another and another group... So instead of waiting and waisting your time.
You switch to zone 2. It is empty ...almost nobody plays in zone 2. And you are able to do the quest unhindered.
I tell you...how many times people steal quests. I wonder why other MMOs until now didnt implement this great solution.
Remember. There is no diference from this and non instanced MMO.
AOC just gives you choice , you can play on crowded place where people steal your kills , chests, mining nodes...or play on the same map with less people...
Yes I agree, that type of instancing is alot better than most. Even though it is instanced, it still doesn't feel like it is, there are just more than one version of the world you could go. Some people like being with loads of people, but even those people can get annoyed if the quest they are doing has another 20 people trying to get the same wolf claws.
Only semi-bad part of instance zones is that you have to load each time you change zones. Though that could only take a few seconds, or 10.
Maybe I missed something, but I assumed this game operate like EQ2 a long time ago going off the devs description.
Why are people getting all up in arms this now? Seemed obvious to me. They talked about border zones and things be enabled in certains places and called the borderlands instances.
They have to make it like EQ2, they have no choice with their feature set.
I don't have a problem with zones, but I do have a problem with any instancing. I don't want instanced dungeons and I don't want instancing of zones to deal with lag. The proper way to deal with lag is by not pushing the graphics demand to begin with.
If a zone lags because of crowding, then that's nature's way of saying go somewhere else or suffer. I would rather deal with lag than have multiple instanced copies of a zone.
I don't have a problem with zones, but I do have a problem with any instancing. I don't want instanced dungeons and I don't want instancing of zones to deal with lag. The proper way to deal with lag is by not pushing the graphics demand to begin with. If a zone lags because of crowding, then that's nature's way of saying go somewhere else or suffer. I would rather deal with lag than have multiple instanced copies of a zone.
There is more to it than lag and telling your customer too bad, suffer is a recipe for failure.
People need to get out of the MUD mentality, and yes even if you never played it was carried over into the 1st generation of MMOs. These are not Free games made by volunteers. You can't say STFU deal with it like so many MUD devs did.
Secondly you need to own up and admit that your "dream" implementations also suffer from serious problems and expecting people to "deal" is simply a recipe for failure. Any game you see that does that, will fail or at best be a niche game. And niche for Conan is failing if the bill for the development seems is in the neighborhood of what I think it is.
Barriers are fine if they make sesne. Making customers suffer is flat out counter productive and harmful.
Instances suck, if it is instance heavy, I will definatly not get this game.
I buy an MMO to be in a Massive Multiplayer Online game. Not to be in an area pretty much by myself -.-
Based on your comments on AoC in the past, not only would you not buy this game no matter what, we won't miss you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When Funcom says instance, they're talking about a shard with anywhere between 50 and several hundred people inside, not just between one person and two teams AKA Guild Wars. They practically invented the system, go compare AoC to how Anarchy Online was instanced, not other games done by other people.
If you get a ffa pvp server with shards up to 50 people well then this game will suck and not be immersive at all, it fail already before it launches if this is true, prolly done for all carebears , so they have there own private instance bah:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
Instances suck, if it is instance heavy, I will definatly not get this game.
I buy an MMO to be in a Massive Multiplayer Online game. Not to be in an area pretty much by myself -.-
Based on your comments on AoC in the past, not only would you not buy this game no matter what, we won't miss you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When Funcom says instance, they're talking about a shard with anywhere between 50 and several hundred people inside, not just between one person and two teams AKA Guild Wars. They practically invented the system, go compare AoC to how Anarchy Online was instanced, not other games done by other people.
If you get a ffa pvp server with shards up to 50 people well then this game will suck and not be immersive at all, it fail already before it launches if this is true, prolly done for all carebears , so they have there own private instance bah:(
The man said between 50 and several hundred (and those numbers are, I wager, speculation anyway). Why, oh why can't people read on these forums? Why do they always only read what they want to read and flame from there? -.-
Yet again, people take the word instance and run with it in exactly the wrong direction. The instancing used here will not pose a threat to FFA PvP, period.
And how do you know this? have you played the game? Nobody knows what anything is going to be like. Beta doesnt tell you crap.
Comments
Ok...i asked around
AOC have the same kind of instancing like Tabula Rasa.
World is sharded - meaning that zones can have few duplicates , and you can choose which one you enter
GREAT! Worked wonders in TR
Must be in game to catch your m8s.
A very good definition. Instancing help you move hardware resources around. Why use alot of HW on Thunderbluff when everyone is in Ogrimmar (sorry for the WoW example
) ?
On PvP servers you may or may not be vulnerable as your character is transfered from one server to the next. In vanguard I got killed all the time by chunk campers
EDIT: Another vulnerability is the build in invisibility. You cannot see across zoneboarders. A nice place to put ambushed in other words.
---
And when we got more women on the team, it was like No, no, no. We need puppies and horses in there.
John Smedley, SOE
Worked great in CoH/V and EQ2 as well. It's a tech a lot of MMOGs use these days to great effect.
Thx Ethion for a good definition of what a zone and an instance is. Far to many people confuse them. I tried to define the two earlier, and a few people seemed to have gotten it, but most didn't.
I think, you have never said, that Zones could be instanced too, or I miss something?
so...wait....
me: hey man we going to trounce XXX city!
Friend: sweet....where do we want to meet up
Me: We are all in City ABCD by the potion dealer!
Friend: Wait...i don't see anyone...and i am right by em!
Me: Oh...get into the right zone!!!!
Is that how it works? there will be severel copies of the same area? Sigh....so i can potentially run into town and such and not be in the same zone as some friends running through the same city? A la Guild Wars?
As far as I understand it there could be several instances of an outland zone but there is only going to be one instance per city. So you are in instance 3 of outland area B. You then enter the city 1 and are automatically in the same instance as everybody else that is currently roaming the town. Someone correct me if I am misinterpreting something here.
***************************
Remember, remember the 5th of November
***************************
If you dont understand how it works
I suggest you go and play some MMOs
If you dont understand how it works
I suggest you go and play some MMOs
oh you so funny....i suggest you go back and learn to read. I was asking a very simple question, because alot of people are confusing with their terms zoning and instancing...and if you read the part 3 news article...i am right...there will be multiple instances of the same zone in SOME areas.....
Hence my guild wars reference. And sonny..don't be insulting people who have a ton of experience. But go ahead and put your AoC fanbois hat back on...its ok....to those of us wishing for more info, we can continue to ask questions with out the rosey glasses on.
1.Private instance: Only you and members of the group can enter this instance (mind the group can be raid group too).There can be infinite number of such instanced opened on the server.This instance resets after you leave. Example:Missions in DDO,Missions in AO,World in GW,Dungeons in WOW
2.Public instance (or shard): Unlike private instance , public one can host huge number of players, which do not have to be in group. They are persistant , and inside effect remain after you or everyone leaves. There is limited number of public instances of same zone on the server. You can usually chose which of similar public instances you want to enter. Example: Cities in DDO , Cities in GW , Cities in EQ2, World map in TR.
3.Zone: Zone is almost nothing like instance only similarity is that entering new zone brings up the loading screen like for above mentioned instances. There is only one of each zone on the server. Example: World in EQ2
And the answer is:
AOC will fall into category 2. Public instance (or Shard).
And remember. When you enter public instance. You always enter the first one. Unless the first one is over populated (which can be after 1000 players or more are inside).You can choose to enter any instance you want.
so i was right and insulting me was just to be a jerk...thanks.
Guild Wars public instances are limited to 50 players max.
Here we are talking about 1000 players in same instance.
Same principle but a big diference.
And sorry for being jerk. It was uncalled for
ok but the numbers may be different but the idea is the same. So basically it is multiple instances...thats what i was asking. Why is it that people have legitmate questions, and others always feel the need to jump on their backs....not only in AoC but any game...it really puts people off when they have some interest in a game. Granted mine may be waning, but elitist attitudes don't help.
And apology accepted
I hate instances. I hink they break the imersion and make harder to interact with other ppl. Maybe in some special situations they are needed but mostly i think they suck. Depending on how much and what is gonna be instanced it might make the game a lot less atractive for me.
Sounds about right as Lobotomist explains it, especially if they use the same system AO has. Outside areas in AO are huge although you need to zone to each individual area. Town areas are smaller but still a lot bigger than EQ2. Of course, we're talking about two games with different requirements in computing power, so noone can tell (besides the beta testers) how big the town shards are. Building shards are annoying but not overly.
Then again AO is a two faction PvP game so I'm not sure how sharding will work in a FFA server. But they can put a timer on you so you can't zone if you're PvP enabled (like EVE has an aggression timer, only you wouldn't be able to warp to another system if you were PvP enabled for example. They can definitely be creative with the system and it's one that can be tweaked even after the game launches.
You dont get it.
This is practically like no instance at all. Or should i say, if this type of instance was not existing, they should invent it.
Ill give you an example of how awsome this type of instance is.
Take Tabula Rasa.
You have 4 instances of Wilderness zone. Everyone plays in zone 1
You get a quest to rescue villagers from Bane attack...right. You go there and see , few other groups camping the same quest. And after them another and another group... So instead of waiting and waisting your time.
You switch to zone 2. It is empty ...almost nobody plays in zone 2. And you are able to do the quest unhindered.
I tell you...how many times people steal quests. I wonder why other MMOs until now didnt implement this great solution.
Remember. There is no diference from this and non instanced MMO.
AOC just gives you choice , you can play on crowded place where people steal your kills , chests, mining nodes...or play on the same map with less people...
Yes I agree, that type of instancing is alot better than most. Even though it is instanced, it still doesn't feel like it is, there are just more than one version of the world you could go. Some people like being with loads of people, but even those people can get annoyed if the quest they are doing has another 20 people trying to get the same wolf claws.
Only semi-bad part of instance zones is that you have to load each time you change zones. Though that could only take a few seconds, or 10.
Osahar Ismassri
Conscript of King's Guard
http://guild-of-kings-guard.com/
Maybe I missed something, but I assumed this game operate like EQ2 a long time ago going off the devs description.
Why are people getting all up in arms this now? Seemed obvious to me. They talked about border zones and things be enabled in certains places and called the borderlands instances.
They have to make it like EQ2, they have no choice with their feature set.
I don't have a problem with zones, but I do have a problem with any instancing. I don't want instanced dungeons and I don't want instancing of zones to deal with lag. The proper way to deal with lag is by not pushing the graphics demand to begin with.
If a zone lags because of crowding, then that's nature's way of saying go somewhere else or suffer. I would rather deal with lag than have multiple instanced copies of a zone.
People need to get out of the MUD mentality, and yes even if you never played it was carried over into the 1st generation of MMOs. These are not Free games made by volunteers. You can't say STFU deal with it like so many MUD devs did.
Secondly you need to own up and admit that your "dream" implementations also suffer from serious problems and expecting people to "deal" is simply a recipe for failure. Any game you see that does that, will fail or at best be a niche game. And niche for Conan is failing if the bill for the development seems is in the neighborhood of what I think it is.
Barriers are fine if they make sesne. Making customers suffer is flat out counter productive and harmful.
Based on your comments on AoC in the past, not only would you not buy this game no matter what, we won't miss you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When Funcom says instance, they're talking about a shard with anywhere between 50 and several hundred people inside, not just between one person and two teams AKA Guild Wars. They practically invented the system, go compare AoC to how Anarchy Online was instanced, not other games done by other people.
If you get a ffa pvp server with shards up to 50 people well then this game will suck and not be immersive at all, it fail already before it launches if this is true, prolly done for all carebears , so they have there own private instance bah:(
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Based on your comments on AoC in the past, not only would you not buy this game no matter what, we won't miss you.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. When Funcom says instance, they're talking about a shard with anywhere between 50 and several hundred people inside, not just between one person and two teams AKA Guild Wars. They practically invented the system, go compare AoC to how Anarchy Online was instanced, not other games done by other people.
If you get a ffa pvp server with shards up to 50 people well then this game will suck and not be immersive at all, it fail already before it launches if this is true, prolly done for all carebears , so they have there own private instance bah:(
The man said between 50 and several hundred (and those numbers are, I wager, speculation anyway). Why, oh why can't people read on these forums? Why do they always only read what they want to read and flame from there? -.-
Which Final Fantasy Character Are You?
Final Fantasy 7
And how do you know this? have you played the game? Nobody knows what anything is going to be like. Beta doesnt tell you crap.
HOGG4LIFE
I hate zoning and all that myself, it breaks the immersion... wish more games were like SWG or WOW with the seemless worlds.