Originally posted by Farseen World of Warcraft looks good too, just not good enough for my likings. And i heard from beta testers that the combat system is very weak. I know its in beta, just letting you know what i've heard.
IT's just one man's opinion. Who knows, graphics dont really matter IMO. It's not like any game will look like the real world any time soon, so who the hell cares about graphics?...
Gameplay matters alot, EQ2 looks good, but so does WoW. Hard to judge I say let's waiT o_ @*)H
Originally posted by Lugnard Originally posted by Farseen World of Warcraft looks good too, just not good enough for my likings. And i heard from beta testers that the combat system is very weak. I know its in beta, just letting you know what i've heard.-Farseen-______________________________Tested: Knight Online, Wish Beta, Ryzom Beta, Planeshift Alpha Played: UO, EQ, AO, SWG, FFXI, Shadowbane, EVE, Horizons, AC2 Current Testing: Everquest 2 (soon)Care to elaborate? I've never heard any of the Beta testers mention the combat system as being below par or weak...
Have you asked any precisely? From what i've heard (now this is what i've heard, not MY statement anymore) you just click once, then leave the fight be. Keep in mind that's what i heard and now what i experienced myself. But ask some beta tests and try to find out for yourself, maybe my source is faulty!
Here is a list of reasons why Eq2 will be awsome and will blow WoW out of the water.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
1. Locked encounters: When you engage a monster it becomes a locked encouter. This prevents kitting, kill stealing, loot stealing, ect. I think this is an awsome idea.
2. Combat: The combat in Eq2 looks simply stunning. If you have watched some of the vidoes than you would know what i mean.
3. Guilds: Guilds are much more important in Eq2 than they were in Eq1. Guilds will compete with other guilds for prestige, honor, and favor with the rulers of their city. They are much more involved than in Eq1 where they were just names on a list. Guilds will be able to own guild houses too.
4. Families: They will consist of people with the last name. They will be important, just not as important as guilds. You will beable to notice what family a person is in by observing their last name.
5. Fellowships: They will consist of a maximum of 6 people. They will always share experiance with each other no matter where the other members are.
6. Housing: Players will beable to own their own housing. From instanced appartment style housing, to massive guild mansions. The appartment style will be easy to obtain, but the stand alone housing will mostly only be obtainable by the highest level guilds.
7. Races: There will be 16 playable races. From the shortest gnome, to the tallest ogre.
8. Classes: There will be a total of 46 classes. Eq2 implements a branching style, where you choose what path to take as you advance.
9. Character customization: Players will beable to customize their appearance with complete control. Giving them even more options on how to make their character exactly the way they want them to be.
10. Lore/history: Eq2 will have an unimagianble amount of lore and history. All of this will play an important role in gameplay and guests.
11. NPCs with voices: Every NPC in Eq2 will have their own voice. NPCs will actually call out to you if they have a quest that you are capable of doing.
12. Artisan class: The artisan can get experiance from using their skill. They don't have to fight a single monster ever. They live sort of "normal" lives, having a job, and getting money from it.
13. Tradeskills: Tradeskills are much more advanced and indepth in Eq2 than in any other. Eq2 has a revolutionary system. Instead of just click, click, click, WOOT!!! i made a sword. You actually have to "engage" the furnace and craft your item. You have to keep the tempreture at a right level, and you have to work with the metal to form the desired result.
14. Two starting cities: In Eq2 there will be only 2 starting cities, which is an awsome idea. These will always be populated because there are only 2. Each will have around 17 zones each, making them massive. They will provide a hub for trading and traveling. In most mmorpgs with many starting cities, you end up with only one or two actually being populated with people. The others are compelety abondoned. There are only 2 starting cities, but there are more than 2 cities, just they are alot smaller and less important.
15. Exploration: Exporlation will be an important factor in Eq2. With no one knowing what happened to the rest of Norath it will be your job to explore and learn.
16. Boats: Boats will be the primary mode of transportation in Eq2. Players will beable to actually naviagte boats instead of them being on a set course. There of course will be set routes for some boats. But players can guide some boats. Allowing them more freedom in where they want to go.
17. Graphics: The graphics in Eq2 are simply amazing. Just look at this picture:
Look at the detail, you can actually see the veins in the guy's hands and neck.
I can go on, but i won't at this time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
It is alright to get excited about this game. But EverQuest will never hold an EQ player's attention for longer than a month. And for anyone else who has been through an MMORPG or two, this game will be just as boring. This game is nothing special. The only people hyping this game are blind fanatics who've never given any other MMORPG a chance other than EverQuest. EverQuest is not the future of MMORPGs. And I still have serious doubts about Warcraft as well. I played EQ from release too, and everything they've talked about in this thread, concerning EQ's history is completely true. This is a SEQUEL to EverQuest, if it was a different game they would have named it something else. Dont expect it to be handled any differently than EverQuest. The only good MMORPGs are the ones you want to keep playing even deep into the night when you are tired even a few months later.
Dum Dah Dummmmm! The world of Tommorow!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
The year, 2005, the place, YOUR HOMETOWN
Everquest II will rule, and the world will kneel before it's new electronic master. It shall summon vast armies of cybernetic robot warriors and roll over the world's combined armed forces. Then the WoW will develop an AI, and summon it's own vast armies of cybernetic robot warriors, but it will be too late, and Eq II will carry the day. WoW will retreat to it's stronghold around Oracle's computer, but the inevitable, unstoppable Eq II army will destroy WoW, Oracle's computer, and Oracle himself! <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />
Then I shall be seated at the right hand of Eq II, and my name shall be Lefty!
All the world shall worship the new order!
Peace through MMORPG!
Power thourgh MMORPG!
Victory and the total obliviation of Oracle through Eq II!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
Originally posted by LordVanidor It is alright to get excited about this game. But EverQuest will never hold an EQ player's attention for longer than a month. And for anyone else who has been through an MMORPG or two, this game will be just as boring. This game is nothing special. The only people hyping this game are blind fanatics who've never given any other MMORPG a chance other than EverQuest. EverQuest is not the future of MMORPGs. And I still have serious doubts about Warcraft as well. I played EQ from release too, and everything they've talked about in this thread, concerning EQ's history is completely true. This is a SEQUEL to EverQuest, if it was a different game they would have named it something else. Dont expect it to be handled any differently than EverQuest. The only good MMORPGs are the ones you want to keep playing even deep into the night when you are tired even a few months later.
I have played over 10 MMORPGs, Everquest being one of them, and im hyped for EQ2 just as much as others out there who are sole EQ players. Everqust 2 will hold people's attention span with all its amazing features. And to be completely honest, think about what you've just stated. Specifically the whole 'EverQuest will never hold an EQ player's attention for longer than a month.", do you think that your the only one to ever think of that?
Dev's for SOE have DEFFINATELY taken that into consideration, and want to avoid it at all costs so of course their thinking up all they can to make it addictive. Ide like your opinion on "The only good MMORPG" please.
1. Locked encounters: When you engage a monster it becomes a locked encouter. This prevents kitting, kill stealing, loot stealing, ect. I think this is an awsome idea.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
WoW already has this...
2. Combat: The combat in Eq2 looks simply stunning. If you have watched some of the vidoes than you would know what i mean.
The EQ videos were scripted and are not actual representations of gameplay. It is your opinion they look "stunning."
3. Guilds: Guilds are much more important in Eq2 than they were in Eq1. Guilds will compete with other guilds for prestige, honor, and favor with the rulers of their city. They are much more involved than in Eq1 where they were just names on a list. Guilds will be able to own guild houses too.
Guilds in EQ2 do seem a little different and more involved in EQ2 than in WoW but in both games there will be housing options for both guilds and players alike.
4. Families: They will consist of people with the last name. They will be important, just not as important as guilds. You will beable to notice what family a person is in by observing their last name.
Sounds just like added fluff for the sole purpose of having a last name. I can understand it being that way for roleplaying purposes but it doesn't add a lot to the game other than the last names. WoW will also have last names.
5. Fellowships: They will consist of a maximum of 6 people. They will always share experiance with each other no matter where the other members are.
Sounds just like a group only in a greater area. This is something new so I'll give EQ2 credit for it.
6. Housing: Players will beable to own their own housing. From instanced appartment style housing, to massive guild mansions. The appartment style will be easy to obtain, but the stand alone housing will mostly only be obtainable by the highest level guilds.
WoW will have housing as well for both Guilds and players.
7. Races: There will be 16 playable races. From the shortest gnome, to the tallest ogre.
WoW has only 8 races but each race is unique in it's own. Each race has a unique list of Talents for their class (not currently in beta yet) as well as racial traits that only that race can have (ie: Undead don't breathe underwater, Dwarves have treasure finding skills, etc.) EQ2 may have more races but more doesn't necessarily mean better. From what I've read there isn't much of a difference between them.
8. Classes: There will be a total of 46 classes. Eq2 implements a branching style, where you choose what path to take as you advance.
This is again another example of more /= better. Because there will be 4 base classes, there won't be any real uniqueness between the subclasses for each base class. WoW on the other hand has 9 completely different and unique classes that don't overlap at all. Each has their own unique talents, gifts as well as Hero class combos (depending on race). Even gameplay mechanics are vastly different among the classes (ie: Rogues have a Fatigue level where they can perform feats and skills unless they become extremely fatigued (full meter) while Warriors rely on rage that is only accquired within battle to perform battlecrys and combat stances and styles).
9. Character customization: Players will beable to customize their appearance with complete control. Giving them even more options on how to make their character exactly the way they want them to be.
I'll give this to EQ2 but again this is merely fluff... when you're covered in armor from head to toe it won't matter much.
10. Lore/history: Eq2 will have an unimagianble amount of lore and history. All of this will play an important role in gameplay and guests.
Lol I'm sorry but there is no way EQ2 can compete with Warcraft in this department... 3 past games, 2 expansions, 4 books, D&D roleplaying game, etc. Warcraft lore and history is vastly supierior to EQ2's.
11. NPCs with voices: Every NPC in Eq2 will have their own voice. NPCs will actually call out to you if they have a quest that you are capable of doing.
This is just added fluff and can be extremely annoying if everyone is constantly calling for you. And there is no way they'll be able to say your character's name so it's not neccesarily direct communication.
12. Artisan class: The artisan can get experiance from using their skill. They don't have to fight a single monster ever. They live sort of "normal" lives, having a job, and getting money from it.
Sounds like the extreme carebear class to me. Reminds me of the crap they had in SWG. Atleast in WoW you can craft anything you want without having to have a seperate character to do it while hunting.
13. Tradeskills: Tradeskills are much more advanced and indepth in Eq2 than in any other. Eq2 has a revolutionary system. Instead of just click, click, click, WOOT!!! i made a sword. You actually have to "engage" the furnace and craft your item. You have to keep the tempreture at a right level, and you have to work with the metal to form the desired result.
Sounds interesting but I foresee it becoming extremely repetitive when the only class able to do this is the Artisan and that's basically the only thing they can do.
14. Two starting cities: In Eq2 there will be only 2 starting cities, which is an awsome idea. These will always be populated because there are only 2. Each will have around 17 zones each, making them massive. They will provide a hub for trading and traveling. In most mmorpgs with many starting cities, you end up with only one or two actually being populated with people. The others are compelety abondoned. There are only 2 starting cities, but there are more than 2 cities, just they are alot smaller and less important.
Having cities that are too large and that are divided up into zones sounds just like the old EQ... crapfest. In WoW there are 6 capital cities that are extremely easy to navigate in and come with a map incase you do get lost. The areas in them are seperated but aren't totally seperate zones. Each capital city also has it's own unique flavor and style (Stormwind and Ironforge are just breathtaking and are probably the coolest cities you'll ever see in an MMORPG).
15. Exploration: Exporlation will be an important factor in Eq2. With no one knowing what happened to the rest of Norath it will be your job to explore and learn.
WoW world will be quite massive as well but actually gives players bonuses who explore. There will be certian secret areas that will be very hard to find in the wilderness that can be very important to the Warcraft storyline and even places when found or unlocked that will trigger a world event (such as the Dark Portal opening to Draenor, etc.)
16. Boats: Boats will be the primary mode of transportation in Eq2. Players will beable to actually naviagte boats instead of them being on a set course. There of course will be set routes for some boats. But players can guide some boats. Allowing them more freedom in where they want to go.
There are boats in WoW as well as Zepplins for players to use for travel. There will also be flying mounts for players to travel on as well as their own mounts that players can buy that they can fully control and travel on.
17. Graphics: The graphics in Eq2 are simply amazing.
That is merely based on opinion but in Tech terms, yes EQ2 is supierior to WoW's. However, EQ2s graphics simply lack artistic flavor and style that WoW has. Each to their own opinion I guess.
Myself am a EQ2 freak, ive been playing EQ1 for 4 years now nad no other game has made me come back to it as much as EQ has. I can see that in the hype section WoW is first now, the cause is that WoW fanboys are making multiple of accounts just to bring EQ2 hype down. But that does not effect my though of EQ2 being the MmORPG who is gonna bring next generation of great MMORPGS. WoW is a good game, but any reasonable person who even knows a little bout MMORPGS knows that EQ2 is based on the most succesfull MMORPG of all time. Me as a hardcore gamer play multiple games including DaOC, AC,Coh and EQ, and the only game that has so much content to keep me hooked is EQ. Eq2 will be the greatest game after EQ1 just for the simple fact that Sony has experienced and knows that it takes to make a great MMORPG.
For the WoW fanboys all i can say is that they just dont know what a great MMORPG is all about. As a person who backs up everysingle word with logic know that WoW will not live up to what WoW fanboys think it will. WoW has no new content, cartoon graphics, the whole game based on quests mostly, horrible class tree, community which is gonna be full of 10 year old blizzard fanboys and the part where makes WoW even dummer is that its gonna be TOO ez. WoW is for the simple minded ppl who dont like absolutely no kind of challenge in earning their items or anykind of respect in the game. (I know this cause my friend is a FANBOY and he is Beta testing the game.)
But anyways to get to my point that EQ2 is gonna be setting the future of MMORPG gaming, and that any other MMORPG thats gonna come out is just gonna have to learn from EQ.
Originally posted by kptone Myself am a EQ2 freak, ive been playing EQ1 for 4 years now nad no other game has made me come back to it as much as EQ has. I can see that in the hype section WoW is first now, the cause is that WoW fanboys are making multiple of accounts just to bring EQ2 hype down. But that does not effect my though of EQ2 being the MmORPG who is gonna bring next generation of great MMORPGS. WoW is a good game, but any reasonable person who even knows a little bout MMORPGS knows that EQ2 is based on the most succesfull MMORPG of all time. Me as a hardcore gamer play multiple games including DaOC, AC,Coh and EQ, and the only game that has so much content to keep me hooked is EQ. Eq2 will be the greatest game after EQ1 just for the simple fact that Sony has experienced and knows that it takes to make a great MMORPG. For the WoW fanboys all i can say is that they just dont know what a great MMORPG is all about. As a person who backs up everysingle word with logic know that WoW will not live up to what WoW fanboys think it will. WoW has no new content, cartoon graphics, the whole game based on quests mostly, horrible class tree, community which is gonna be full of 10 year old blizzard fanboys and the part where makes WoW even dummer is that its gonna be TOO ez. WoW is for the simple minded ppl who dont like absolutely no kind of challenge in earning their items or anykind of respect in the game. (I know this cause my friend is a FANBOY and he is Beta testing the game.) But anyways to get to my point that EQ2 is gonna be setting the future of MMORPG gaming, and that any other MMORPG thats gonna come out is just gonna have to learn from EQ.
I'd really like to see the look on your face when you finally find out that EQ2 is just another piece of SOE trash...
I am not married to WoW. If EQ2 is just clearly the better game I will be there despite my reservations. However, some of those items mentioned above were going to be in EQ, at least the housing part was, and just never happened.
SoE has a problem with credibility with me, they consistently - in every expansion - OVERPROMISE and UNDERDELIVER, as evidenced thru four years of playing their game.
Like everyone here I want the ultimate badass mmorpg to play. If EQ2 is it, great; however, I would appreciate people posting what they KNOW though rather than reciting a marketing brochure or a pretty webpage set up by guys in charge of making $$ and not the guys who actually have to write the code for it.
Are you in the beta? Are these in-game screens you have taken yourself or professionally done SOE shots produced by their marketing department? Have you fought using their "wheel" combat system? Have you used the WoW system and incorporated warrior rage or a rogue finishing move into it? If not, you are blowing smoke up my ass...
Originally posted by Lugnard I'd really like to see the look on your face when you finally find out that EQ2 is just another piece of SOE trash...
Are you psychic? Are you the producer of EverQuest II? Because i really doubt you know it will turn out like trash when you have never even played the game.
Playing: City of Heroes/ Dark Age of Camelot Upcoming: EverQuest II
Originally posted by kptone Myself am a EQ2 freak, ive been playing EQ1 for 4 years now nad no other game has made me come back to it as much as EQ has. I can see that in the hype section WoW is first now, the cause is that WoW fanboys are making multiple of accounts just to bring EQ2 hype down. But that does not effect my though of EQ2 being the MmORPG who is gonna bring next generation of great MMORPGS. WoW is a good game, but any reasonable person who even knows a little bout MMORPGS knows that EQ2 is based on the most succesfull MMORPG of all time. Me as a hardcore gamer play multiple games including DaOC, AC,Coh and EQ, and the only game that has so much content to keep me hooked is EQ. Eq2 will be the greatest game after EQ1 just for the simple fact that Sony has experienced and knows that it takes to make a great MMORPG. For the WoW fanboys all i can say is that they just dont know what a great MMORPG is all about. As a person who backs up everysingle word with logic know that WoW will not live up to what WoW fanboys think it will. WoW has no new content, cartoon graphics, the whole game based on quests mostly, horrible class tree, community which is gonna be full of 10 year old blizzard fanboys and the part where makes WoW even dummer is that its gonna be TOO ez. WoW is for the simple minded ppl who dont like absolutely no kind of challenge in earning their items or anykind of respect in the game. (I know this cause my friend is a FANBOY and he is Beta testing the game.) But anyways to get to my point that EQ2 is gonna be setting the future of MMORPG gaming, and that any other MMORPG thats gonna come out is just gonna have to learn from EQ.
Well done, well done , if alot of people from diablo 2 move to this game(which im sure they will) i wont be suprised if when people group , 50% of the time they find that people just randomly disband without a word and there will probaly also be alot of MMORPGS newbs that are gunna be playing this game, just like in ffxi cuz of the name, i remeber half of the people didnt even know what macros were
I can see your using the word 'fluff' quite often. What i've also noticed is that you use it in a wrong way, completely. You refer 'fluff' to stuff that an MMORPG doesn't need, or is useless to a mmorpg. In reality, fluff is what makes gamers really appreciate the time and effort put into an MMORPG.
While playing you'll come across a gnome mage and notice his age and say "oh cool! i never noticed that before!" By saying things are 'fluff' are you now stating that character customization if 'fluff' too ? Would you like World of Warcraft if everyone was running around the exact same height, colour, because i could easily argue and tell you that all that customization is just 'fluff'.
One thing i completely disagree with is the fact that NPC talking is fluff. NO WAY man. You dont understand the new level that this will bring to the game. An NPC talking back to you, will create a whole new level of gameplay, whether you accept that now, or later, you will realize it.
As for the whole class selection. You say that 4 Main classes will be boring and the sub-classes too similar whereas WoW will be very unique?
Hmmm. If your telling me that a Rogue or Hunter class will contain all of the skills which those classes will posess, i think your wrong. I wont even go into Warrior's or mages. ITs just plainly obvious. Anyway, time to study - damn summerschool - but theres my insights. Play around with them, i'll respon to you tomorrow. But bewarre, i CAN and WILL smash down your WoW opinion again
haha just kidding man, i love everyone here at mmorpg.com (but seriously)
Y'know it's funny. I like to stay out of any argument that involves WoW versus EQII...but that list was just... moronic. Locked combat? AO came up with private missions (similar) YEARS ago, FFXI has locked encounters, some games simply alleviate the need for 'locked encounters' by coming up with a loot/spawn system that doesn't encourage people to act like assholes.
Housing? HA
16 different races? Who the hell cares if they're almost all the same?
SOE, quite frankly, doesn't know jack shit about good MMORPG's. Let's look at their track record. But they did EQ you say? No, a completely different company came up with the basics of EQ. They made the EQ that got people hooked, then SOE took over. SWG? A mediocre game at best, their main playerbase isn't composed of MMORPGers. it's composed of people who worship Star Wars. If the game had had related concepts, yet been based on a different story line, it would have bombed. So the 'experience in making a wonderful game' bit? Pha, I'll believe it when I see it.
Guild systems, family systems, etc are nothing to get excited about. They've been around the mmorpg world for yeaaars.
Graphics are nothing to get excited about unless you're 12 and you're seeing how little you can make your elf wear.
Quite frankly, I'm not badmouthing EQII, and I'm not salivating in anticipation of WoW. I hope they're both great, so when I get some free time a year from now I can sit down and have a blast trying both. I simply get annoyed when people read a website dedicated to advertising the game and hold that up as proof of greatness. What's more, when you actually mouth the bullshit and half-lies as if they were scripture. They have an experience team designing the game? They had an experienced team design AC2 and SWG, blegh.
All I'm asking is that you wait. Don't advertise for a company that has millions of dollars to advertise for itself. Don't spill forth their lies about being the 'first' in anything, or babble on about how the company has never and therefore can never fail in a complex and finnicky creation process (WoW), because chances are you're going to be wrong. I'm sorry if this turned into somewhat or a rant, but after reading my 5th "this is why X is better than Y bitches", I simply can't take it.
Oh, and for your information... the whole "EQ is the biggest mmorpg EVAH" thing is completely untrue. FFXI and Lineage both blow them out of the water God bless Asian mmorpg populations =P
How will EverQuest II differ from other massively multiplayer games?... et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...
nooblet
Ah yes. Another know-nothing think-nothing who sees plagarism of the manufacturer's marketing hype of a product as the ultimate argument in support of their opinions. Those very opinions that have come to be because they read the very words they have just plagarised.
Don't you just love the circular logic of such a post!?!
--------- "It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." Thomas Jefferson
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
From its very beginnings in Brad McQuaids head EQ was a place where his table top and MUD fantasy came true. Before March 16th 1999 there was no other place as well put together and visually stunning as Norrath.
What was not anticipated was how popular the game got or the ensueing genra it would spawn. The original game dynamic was meant to support a few thousand cooperative people who would work together to "slay the dragon". What they got was a few hundred thousand selfish people who fought over the dragon's loot. A game meant for community play quickly became a competition to reach the next level and get the next best item.
My argument is, not only did large corporate groupthink ruin EQ but so did the players themselves and solving these problems will be key in making future games fun.
Players quickly became obsessed with flying throught he levels and character balance. At first SoE and Verant appeased players by making changes they wanted. Many of you say this is when they were "Doing things right." But for every Nerf and modification SoE put into the gamethere would be a ripple effect. The truth is, no game with several classes and stats, hundreds of spells and items be as well balanced as a game of rock paper scissors. There are too many factors to fine tune. The problem is compounded by the X factor which is human ingenuity. No matter how hard programmers try to balance and tune a game some kid will come along and find and exploit or why the latest patch just made his class the best. Its a given in a population of hundreds of thousands of people.
So after the release of kunark and velious with many changes like more races and classes and spells and other factors to complicate the tuning of the game there was the advent of the uberguild. Uberguilds soon became the most vocal members of the EQ community which is dangerous because they also represented and small minority. They demanded more content to satisfy their huge appetite. Soon Sony realized their fanbase was addicted. The people who played EQ were no different than a dogs with meat dangled in front of them.
With this new philosophy Sony changed the size of the meat and the length at which it dangled. They added tons of content with rediculous rewards with the backdrop of a roleplaying story to keep true to its roots. Content was pushed out before it was finished because execs knew people would buy it anyway. They didn't care they had a poor product as long as they were, "Striking when the anvil was hot." This is the formula they have today and its very effective with half a million subscribers; most of whom will probably never see endgame content. Nick Yee goes into a whole reason for its effectiveness calling EQ the "Virtual Skinner Box" (www.NickYee.com <http://www.NickYee.com>; for more info).
Somewhere along the line Brad McQuaids idea for a fun game became distorted. EQ is still a good game, i played it for about 2 years and would go back if not for potentially better games on the horizon. The main problem with EQ was that the destination became more fun then the journey. More people wanted to walk around with an epic weapon and kill gods than lead a small raid with their friends in a newbie zone. The key to fixing this is with an immersive story line, questing, instancing to minimize player confrontation, and simplicity in factors affecting class/race balancing. So far i've seen a lot of this in WoW. Hopefully when you turn 60 in WoW you'll say, "this was fun, but i really want to make a new character so i can go through all those cool lvl 30 quests i missed, or see what the Horde has to offer." This way instead of extending the endgame you bring the game full circle expanding itself infinitely.
I came up with this idea as i read some previous posters poor arguments, critical ideas, and just generally, "Hateing the game and not the player."
--------------------------------------
I got this from a different forum discussing EQ. I am coming to the conclusion that though EQII will boast better graphics, and be a big hit for the company SOE, I believe WoW will be a overall more "fun" experience. Diverse races and classes, huge storyline to build upon, (inferior to EQII) yet creative graphics, pvp and pve, and plenty of time for the beta and programmers to tweak and make the WoW experience to be a winner.
I don't think EQII will bomb. But I think my money is better spent w/ WoW.
God is a comedian playing to an audience that is too afraid to laugh.
Originally posted by kptone Myself am a EQ2 freak, ive been playing EQ1 for 4 years now nad no other game has made me come back to it as much as EQ has. I can see that in the hype section WoW is first now, the cause is that WoW fanboys are making multiple of accounts just to bring EQ2 hype down. But that does not effect my though of EQ2 being the MmORPG who is gonna bring next generation of great MMORPGS. WoW is a good game, but any reasonable person who even knows a little bout MMORPGS knows that EQ2 is based on the most succesfull MMORPG of all time. Me as a hardcore gamer play multiple games including DaOC, AC,Coh and EQ, and the only game that has so much content to keep me hooked is EQ. Eq2 will be the greatest game after EQ1 just for the simple fact that Sony has experienced and knows that it takes to make a great MMORPG. For the WoW fanboys all i can say is that they just dont know what a great MMORPG is all about. As a person who backs up everysingle word with logic know that WoW will not live up to what WoW fanboys think it will. WoW has no new content, cartoon graphics, the whole game based on quests mostly, horrible class tree, community which is gonna be full of 10 year old blizzard fanboys and the part where makes WoW even dummer is that its gonna be TOO ez. WoW is for the simple minded ppl who dont like absolutely no kind of challenge in earning their items or anykind of respect in the game. (I know this cause my friend is a FANBOY and he is Beta testing the game.) But anyways to get to my point that EQ2 is gonna be setting the future of MMORPG gaming, and that any other MMORPG thats gonna come out is just gonna have to learn from EQ.
This coming from someone who refused to play EQ2 because dark elves could become rangers. Not more than a few months ago. What a blatant fanboy zombie.
Right now all Everquest 2 is going on is Everquest.. They know people know Everquest, they know people know it was one of the best if not the best MMORPG at one point, and that's all they they are relying on.
Oh, and there superior graphics, the only game that i saw that was near Everquest was Warhammer online and judgeing by this www.warhammeronline.com i don't think they need to worry about that anymore.
Originally posted by Farseen As for the whole class selection. You say that 4 Main classes will be boring and the sub-classes too similar whereas WoW will be very unique? World Of Warcraft's Scout Class: Rogue Hunter
Hmmm. If your telling me that a Rogue or Hunter class will contain all of the skills which those classes will posess, i think your wrong. I wont even go into Warrior's or mages. ITs just plainly obvious. Anyway, time to study - damn summerschool - but theres my insights. Play around with them, i'll respon to you tomorrow. But bewarre, i CAN and WILL smash down your WoW opinion again Current Testing: Everquest 2 (soon)
Hmm. Have you ever played EQ? With 15 classes, SoE class balancing was (and is) a complete clusterfuck. The entire Release - Nerf - Tweak thing was policy until Gates of Discord. In Gates of Discord they decided, "Let's go the other way!" and release a Berserker who sucks and then tweak him up when we hear which direction the rants, bitches and whines are headed...
Here is an analogy for the younger folks: You are just finishing up the school year. You took 5 courses and got a D, 3 C's, and a B. You did well enough to pass but not great, so you are registering for next year and decide you should take 10 classes. I mean hell, you got a lot of experience from taking the five last year and, even though you were barely above failing in some of them you ought to do better with your added experience eh?
Well to me that is what I see with SoE having a shitload of classes LOL. They sucked keeping the 15 in EQ balanced and viable and I see some weird class up there like a Dirge with only maybe 400 people total playing it and they never do a friggen thing with it. Why should they when everyone is playing an assassin and that is where all the bitching is coming from on the boards?
Nice post Farm, certainly the Brad McQuaids and the Jeff Butlers were the cream of the crop ( www.sigilgames.com ) and the Absors are the cream of the crap.
There is certainly a a couple big, big differences between WoW and EQ2. EQ2 promises the world and you have to pull teeth to get any info out of WoW. Classes are a good example. WoW has this top secret legendary Hero thing where, at level 40 (?), you can supposedly branch out and there are many sub-classes like Arch-Druids, Mountain Kings, Arhcmages, or Demon Hunters suddenly viable. When asked at E3 they will only smile and say "we aren't releasing that info yet". Irritating.
The second big difference is this. SoE, based on past history, has no problem with slopping stuff out there that isn't finished while Blizzard takes way too long and is anal about releases. Just so you don't think I am bitter because I have a 65 Berserker who is shitty I will use another example. Velious. The ultimate mob in Velious was Kerafyrm, the Sleeper. The lore was cool but the players got their keys made too fast and were ready to tear up Sleeper's Tomb. Do some searches on the guilds who were trying to wake the Sleeper LOL before the content was finished. In some cases GM's came in and killed them all, in some cases they were able to wake him for a second until the Devs pulled the plug on the zone and he was a Giant Naked Human Model LOL. The SoE "cover your ass" tactics because the content was released and not finished is infamous in EQ circles. Go to the Fires of Heaven boards and read all the uber bitching about the Plane of Time not being done by the time the guilds got there and what they had to go through. I am sure I can think of more if I try, those are just a few examples.
Anyway. I HOPE EQ2 is a great game and I am not bashing it, just SOE who has certainly not earned my confidence with EQ and SWG. Perhaps the third time will be the charm, I don't know.
EQ1, and EQ:OA both brought me to places I have never been before, you know that place where you feel like the world you are living in is a faceless planet void of any life. Both these games just about killed the hope of any MMORPG being able to satisfy my RPG needs, and EQ2 is definatly shaping up to be something that I will in time, grow to hate. WoW is the place for me, I don't care about speaking NPCs, reading is fine with me, and to complain about such would be lazy. "Non-confrontational advancement"? I can get that from stealing candy from little kids, how will that make a game more entertaining? anyways, the 48 classes sounded sweet till I fout out it was more like 8 classes each split 6 times out to form only marginally differnt sides of the same class. Though you can say that you dirge is differnt then my happy bardish char, I still feel one in the same
Comments
IT's just one man's opinion. Who knows, graphics dont really matter IMO. It's not like any game will look like the real world any time soon, so who the hell cares about graphics?...
Gameplay matters alot, EQ2 looks good, but so does WoW. Hard to judge I say let's waiT o_ @*)H
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sleepy ~ZZzzZzz
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sleepy ~ZZzzZzz
Have you asked any precisely? From what i've heard (now this is what i've heard, not MY statement anymore) you just click once, then leave the fight be. Keep in mind that's what i heard and now what i experienced myself. But ask some beta tests and try to find out for yourself, maybe my source is faulty!
-Farseen-
______________________________
Tested: Knight Online, Wish Beta, Ryzom Beta, Planeshift Alpha
Played: UO, EQ, AO, SWG, FFXI, Shadowbane, EVE, Horizons, AC2
Current Testing: Everquest 2 (soon)
- Farseen
Current Game: Panzar
Here is a list of reasons why Eq2 will be awsome and will blow WoW out of the water.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
1. Locked encounters: When you engage a monster it becomes a locked encouter. This prevents kitting, kill stealing, loot stealing, ect. I think this is an awsome idea.
2. Combat: The combat in Eq2 looks simply stunning. If you have watched some of the vidoes than you would know what i mean.
3. Guilds: Guilds are much more important in Eq2 than they were in Eq1. Guilds will compete with other guilds for prestige, honor, and favor with the rulers of their city. They are much more involved than in Eq1 where they were just names on a list. Guilds will be able to own guild houses too.
4. Families: They will consist of people with the last name. They will be important, just not as important as guilds. You will beable to notice what family a person is in by observing their last name.
5. Fellowships: They will consist of a maximum of 6 people. They will always share experiance with each other no matter where the other members are.
6. Housing: Players will beable to own their own housing. From instanced appartment style housing, to massive guild mansions. The appartment style will be easy to obtain, but the stand alone housing will mostly only be obtainable by the highest level guilds.
7. Races: There will be 16 playable races. From the shortest gnome, to the tallest ogre.
8. Classes: There will be a total of 46 classes. Eq2 implements a branching style, where you choose what path to take as you advance.
9. Character customization: Players will beable to customize their appearance with complete control. Giving them even more options on how to make their character exactly the way they want them to be.
10. Lore/history: Eq2 will have an unimagianble amount of lore and history. All of this will play an important role in gameplay and guests.
11. NPCs with voices: Every NPC in Eq2 will have their own voice. NPCs will actually call out to you if they have a quest that you are capable of doing.
12. Artisan class: The artisan can get experiance from using their skill. They don't have to fight a single monster ever. They live sort of "normal" lives, having a job, and getting money from it.
13. Tradeskills: Tradeskills are much more advanced and indepth in Eq2 than in any other. Eq2 has a revolutionary system. Instead of just click, click, click, WOOT!!! i made a sword. You actually have to "engage" the furnace and craft your item. You have to keep the tempreture at a right level, and you have to work with the metal to form the desired result.
14. Two starting cities: In Eq2 there will be only 2 starting cities, which is an awsome idea. These will always be populated because there are only 2. Each will have around 17 zones each, making them massive. They will provide a hub for trading and traveling. In most mmorpgs with many starting cities, you end up with only one or two actually being populated with people. The others are compelety abondoned. There are only 2 starting cities, but there are more than 2 cities, just they are alot smaller and less important.
15. Exploration: Exporlation will be an important factor in Eq2. With no one knowing what happened to the rest of Norath it will be your job to explore and learn.
16. Boats: Boats will be the primary mode of transportation in Eq2. Players will beable to actually naviagte boats instead of them being on a set course. There of course will be set routes for some boats. But players can guide some boats. Allowing them more freedom in where they want to go.
17. Graphics: The graphics in Eq2 are simply amazing. Just look at this picture:
Look at the detail, you can actually see the veins in the guy's hands and neck.
I can go on, but i won't at this time.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
It is alright to get excited about this game. But EverQuest will never hold an EQ player's attention for longer than a month. And for anyone else who has been through an MMORPG or two, this game will be just as boring. This game is nothing special. The only people hyping this game are blind fanatics who've never given any other MMORPG a chance other than EverQuest. EverQuest is not the future of MMORPGs. And I still have serious doubts about Warcraft as well. I played EQ from release too, and everything they've talked about in this thread, concerning EQ's history is completely true. This is a SEQUEL to EverQuest, if it was a different game they would have named it something else. Dont expect it to be handled any differently than EverQuest. The only good MMORPGs are the ones you want to keep playing even deep into the night when you are tired even a few months later.
Dum Dah Dummmmm! The world of Tommorow!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
The year, 2005, the place, YOUR HOMETOWN
Everquest II will rule, and the world will kneel before it's new electronic master. It shall summon vast armies of cybernetic robot warriors and roll over the world's combined armed forces. Then the WoW will develop an AI, and summon it's own vast armies of cybernetic robot warriors, but it will be too late, and Eq II will carry the day. WoW will retreat to it's stronghold around Oracle's computer, but the inevitable, unstoppable Eq II army will destroy WoW, Oracle's computer, and Oracle himself! <?xml:namespace prefix = v ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" />
Then I shall be seated at the right hand of Eq II, and my name shall be Lefty!
All the world shall worship the new order!
Peace through MMORPG!
Power thourgh MMORPG!
Victory and the total obliviation of Oracle through Eq II!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-EQ1 character:Grotub, shaman of the Tribunal server
Dev's for SOE have DEFFINATELY taken that into consideration, and want to avoid it at all costs so of course their thinking up all they can to make it addictive. Ide like your opinion on "The only good MMORPG" please.
-Farseen-
______________________________
Tested: Knight Online, Wish Beta, Ryzom Beta, Planeshift Alpha
Played: UO, EQ, AO, SWG, FFXI, Shadowbane, EVE, Horizons, AC2
Current Testing: Everquest 2 (soon)
- Farseen
Current Game: Panzar
1. Locked encounters: When you engage a monster it becomes a locked encouter. This prevents kitting, kill stealing, loot stealing, ect. I think this is an awsome idea.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
WoW already has this...
2. Combat: The combat in Eq2 looks simply stunning. If you have watched some of the vidoes than you would know what i mean.
The EQ videos were scripted and are not actual representations of gameplay. It is your opinion they look "stunning."
3. Guilds: Guilds are much more important in Eq2 than they were in Eq1. Guilds will compete with other guilds for prestige, honor, and favor with the rulers of their city. They are much more involved than in Eq1 where they were just names on a list. Guilds will be able to own guild houses too.
Guilds in EQ2 do seem a little different and more involved in EQ2 than in WoW but in both games there will be housing options for both guilds and players alike.
4. Families: They will consist of people with the last name. They will be important, just not as important as guilds. You will beable to notice what family a person is in by observing their last name.
Sounds just like added fluff for the sole purpose of having a last name. I can understand it being that way for roleplaying purposes but it doesn't add a lot to the game other than the last names. WoW will also have last names.
5. Fellowships: They will consist of a maximum of 6 people. They will always share experiance with each other no matter where the other members are.
Sounds just like a group only in a greater area. This is something new so I'll give EQ2 credit for it.
6. Housing: Players will beable to own their own housing. From instanced appartment style housing, to massive guild mansions. The appartment style will be easy to obtain, but the stand alone housing will mostly only be obtainable by the highest level guilds.
WoW will have housing as well for both Guilds and players.
7. Races: There will be 16 playable races. From the shortest gnome, to the tallest ogre.
WoW has only 8 races but each race is unique in it's own. Each race has a unique list of Talents for their class (not currently in beta yet) as well as racial traits that only that race can have (ie: Undead don't breathe underwater, Dwarves have treasure finding skills, etc.) EQ2 may have more races but more doesn't necessarily mean better. From what I've read there isn't much of a difference between them.
8. Classes: There will be a total of 46 classes. Eq2 implements a branching style, where you choose what path to take as you advance.
This is again another example of more /= better. Because there will be 4 base classes, there won't be any real uniqueness between the subclasses for each base class. WoW on the other hand has 9 completely different and unique classes that don't overlap at all. Each has their own unique talents, gifts as well as Hero class combos (depending on race). Even gameplay mechanics are vastly different among the classes (ie: Rogues have a Fatigue level where they can perform feats and skills unless they become extremely fatigued (full meter) while Warriors rely on rage that is only accquired within battle to perform battlecrys and combat stances and styles).
9. Character customization: Players will beable to customize their appearance with complete control. Giving them even more options on how to make their character exactly the way they want them to be.
I'll give this to EQ2 but again this is merely fluff... when you're covered in armor from head to toe it won't matter much.
10. Lore/history: Eq2 will have an unimagianble amount of lore and history. All of this will play an important role in gameplay and guests.
Lol I'm sorry but there is no way EQ2 can compete with Warcraft in this department... 3 past games, 2 expansions, 4 books, D&D roleplaying game, etc. Warcraft lore and history is vastly supierior to EQ2's.
11. NPCs with voices: Every NPC in Eq2 will have their own voice. NPCs will actually call out to you if they have a quest that you are capable of doing.
This is just added fluff and can be extremely annoying if everyone is constantly calling for you. And there is no way they'll be able to say your character's name so it's not neccesarily direct communication.
12. Artisan class: The artisan can get experiance from using their skill. They don't have to fight a single monster ever. They live sort of "normal" lives, having a job, and getting money from it.
Sounds like the extreme carebear class to me. Reminds me of the crap they had in SWG. Atleast in WoW you can craft anything you want without having to have a seperate character to do it while hunting.
13. Tradeskills: Tradeskills are much more advanced and indepth in Eq2 than in any other. Eq2 has a revolutionary system. Instead of just click, click, click, WOOT!!! i made a sword. You actually have to "engage" the furnace and craft your item. You have to keep the tempreture at a right level, and you have to work with the metal to form the desired result.
Sounds interesting but I foresee it becoming extremely repetitive when the only class able to do this is the Artisan and that's basically the only thing they can do.
14. Two starting cities: In Eq2 there will be only 2 starting cities, which is an awsome idea. These will always be populated because there are only 2. Each will have around 17 zones each, making them massive. They will provide a hub for trading and traveling. In most mmorpgs with many starting cities, you end up with only one or two actually being populated with people. The others are compelety abondoned. There are only 2 starting cities, but there are more than 2 cities, just they are alot smaller and less important.
Having cities that are too large and that are divided up into zones sounds just like the old EQ... crapfest. In WoW there are 6 capital cities that are extremely easy to navigate in and come with a map incase you do get lost. The areas in them are seperated but aren't totally seperate zones. Each capital city also has it's own unique flavor and style (Stormwind and Ironforge are just breathtaking and are probably the coolest cities you'll ever see in an MMORPG).
15. Exploration: Exporlation will be an important factor in Eq2. With no one knowing what happened to the rest of Norath it will be your job to explore and learn.
WoW world will be quite massive as well but actually gives players bonuses who explore. There will be certian secret areas that will be very hard to find in the wilderness that can be very important to the Warcraft storyline and even places when found or unlocked that will trigger a world event (such as the Dark Portal opening to Draenor, etc.)
16. Boats: Boats will be the primary mode of transportation in Eq2. Players will beable to actually naviagte boats instead of them being on a set course. There of course will be set routes for some boats. But players can guide some boats. Allowing them more freedom in where they want to go.
There are boats in WoW as well as Zepplins for players to use for travel. There will also be flying mounts for players to travel on as well as their own mounts that players can buy that they can fully control and travel on.
17. Graphics: The graphics in Eq2 are simply amazing.
That is merely based on opinion but in Tech terms, yes EQ2 is supierior to WoW's. However, EQ2s graphics simply lack artistic flavor and style that WoW has. Each to their own opinion I guess.
Myself am a EQ2 freak, ive been playing EQ1 for 4 years now nad no other game has made me come back to it as much as EQ has. I can see that in the hype section WoW is first now, the cause is that WoW fanboys are making multiple of accounts just to bring EQ2 hype down. But that does not effect my though of EQ2 being the MmORPG who is gonna bring next generation of great MMORPGS. WoW is a good game, but any reasonable person who even knows a little bout MMORPGS knows that EQ2 is based on the most succesfull MMORPG of all time. Me as a hardcore gamer play multiple games including DaOC, AC,Coh and EQ, and the only game that has so much content to keep me hooked is EQ. Eq2 will be the greatest game after EQ1 just for the simple fact that Sony has experienced and knows that it takes to make a great MMORPG.
For the WoW fanboys all i can say is that they just dont know what a great MMORPG is all about. As a person who backs up everysingle word with logic know that WoW will not live up to what WoW fanboys think it will. WoW has no new content, cartoon graphics, the whole game based on quests mostly, horrible class tree, community which is gonna be full of 10 year old blizzard fanboys and the part where makes WoW even dummer is that its gonna be TOO ez. WoW is for the simple minded ppl who dont like absolutely no kind of challenge in earning their items or anykind of respect in the game. (I know this cause my friend is a FANBOY and he is Beta testing the game.)
But anyways to get to my point that EQ2 is gonna be setting the future of MMORPG gaming, and that any other MMORPG thats gonna come out is just gonna have to learn from EQ.
"When you find youself sinking into Madness, dive" - Malkavian Proverb
- MMORPG.COM Staff -
Forum Stalker
Malkavian@mmorpg.com
"When you find yourself sinking into Madness, dive"
I am not married to WoW. If EQ2 is just clearly the better game I will be there despite my reservations. However, some of those items mentioned above were going to be in EQ, at least the housing part was, and just never happened.
SoE has a problem with credibility with me, they consistently - in every expansion - OVERPROMISE and UNDERDELIVER, as evidenced thru four years of playing their game.
Like everyone here I want the ultimate badass mmorpg to play. If EQ2 is it, great; however, I would appreciate people posting what they KNOW though rather than reciting a marketing brochure or a pretty webpage set up by guys in charge of making $$ and not the guys who actually have to write the code for it.
Are you in the beta? Are these in-game screens you have taken yourself or professionally done SOE shots produced by their marketing department? Have you fought using their "wheel" combat system? Have you used the WoW system and incorporated warrior rage or a rogue finishing move into it? If not, you are blowing smoke up my ass...
Playing: City of Heroes/ Dark Age of Camelot
Upcoming: EverQuest II
I can see your using the word 'fluff' quite often. What i've also noticed is that you use it in a wrong way, completely. You refer 'fluff' to stuff that an MMORPG doesn't need, or is useless to a mmorpg. In reality, fluff is what makes gamers really appreciate the time and effort put into an MMORPG.
While playing you'll come across a gnome mage and notice his age and say "oh cool! i never noticed that before!" By saying things are 'fluff' are you now stating that character customization if 'fluff' too ? Would you like World of Warcraft if everyone was running around the exact same height, colour, because i could easily argue and tell you that all that customization is just 'fluff'.
One thing i completely disagree with is the fact that NPC talking is fluff. NO WAY man. You dont understand the new level that this will bring to the game. An NPC talking back to you, will create a whole new level of gameplay, whether you accept that now, or later, you will realize it.
As for the whole class selection. You say that 4 Main classes will be boring and the sub-classes too similar whereas WoW will be very unique?
World Of Warcraft's Scout Class:
Rogue
Hunter
Everquest 2's Scout Classes:
Brigand
Swashbuckler
Dirge
Troubadour
Assasin
Ranger
Hmmm. If your telling me that a Rogue or Hunter class will contain all of the skills which those classes will posess, i think your wrong. I wont even go into Warrior's or mages. ITs just plainly obvious. Anyway, time to study - damn summerschool - but theres my insights. Play around with them, i'll respon to you tomorrow. But bewarre, i CAN and WILL smash down your WoW opinion again
haha just kidding man, i love everyone here at mmorpg.com (but seriously
)
-Farseen-
______________________________
Tested: Knight Online, Wish Beta, Ryzom Beta, Planeshift Alpha
Played: UO, EQ, AO, SWG, FFXI, Shadowbane, EVE, Horizons, AC2
Current Testing: Everquest 2 (soon)
- Farseen
Current Game: Panzar
Y'know it's funny. I like to stay out of any argument that involves WoW versus EQII...but that list was just... moronic. Locked combat? AO came up with private missions (similar) YEARS ago, FFXI has locked encounters, some games simply alleviate the need for 'locked encounters' by coming up with a loot/spawn system that doesn't encourage people to act like assholes.
Housing? HA
16 different races? Who the hell cares if they're almost all the same?
SOE, quite frankly, doesn't know jack shit about good MMORPG's. Let's look at their track record. But they did EQ you say? No, a completely different company came up with the basics of EQ. They made the EQ that got people hooked, then SOE took over. SWG? A mediocre game at best, their main playerbase isn't composed of MMORPGers. it's composed of people who worship Star Wars. If the game had had related concepts, yet been based on a different story line, it would have bombed. So the 'experience in making a wonderful game' bit? Pha, I'll believe it when I see it.
Guild systems, family systems, etc are nothing to get excited about. They've been around the mmorpg world for yeaaars.
Graphics are nothing to get excited about unless you're 12 and you're seeing how little you can make your elf wear.
Quite frankly, I'm not badmouthing EQII, and I'm not salivating in anticipation of WoW. I hope they're both great, so when I get some free time a year from now I can sit down and have a blast trying both. I simply get annoyed when people read a website dedicated to advertising the game and hold that up as proof of greatness. What's more, when you actually mouth the bullshit and half-lies as if they were scripture. They have an experience team designing the game? They had an experienced team design AC2 and SWG, blegh.
All I'm asking is that you wait. Don't advertise for a company that has millions of dollars to advertise for itself. Don't spill forth their lies about being the 'first' in anything, or babble on about how the company has never and therefore can never fail in a complex and finnicky creation process (WoW), because chances are you're going to be wrong. I'm sorry if this turned into somewhat or a rant, but after reading my 5th "this is why X is better than Y bitches", I simply can't take it.
Oh, and for your information... the whole "EQ is the biggest mmorpg EVAH" thing is completely untrue. FFXI and Lineage both blow them out of the water
God bless Asian mmorpg populations =P
How will EverQuest II differ from other massively multiplayer games?... et cetera, et cetera, et cetera...
nooblet
Ah yes. Another know-nothing think-nothing who sees plagarism of the manufacturer's marketing hype of a product as the ultimate argument in support of their opinions. Those very opinions that have come to be because they read the very words they have just plagarised.
Don't you just love the circular logic of such a post!?!
---------
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Thomas Jefferson
From its very beginnings in Brad McQuaids head EQ was a place where his table top and MUD fantasy came true. Before March 16th 1999 there was no other place as well put together and visually stunning as Norrath.
What was not anticipated was how popular the game got or the ensueing genra it would spawn. The original game dynamic was meant to support a few thousand cooperative people who would work together to "slay the dragon". What they got was a few hundred thousand selfish people who fought over the dragon's loot. A game meant for community play quickly became a competition to reach the next level and get the next best item.
My argument is, not only did large corporate groupthink ruin EQ but so did the players themselves and solving these problems will be key in making future games fun.
Players quickly became obsessed with flying throught he levels and character balance. At first SoE and Verant appeased players by making changes they wanted. Many of you say this is when they were "Doing things right." But for every Nerf and modification SoE put into the gamethere would be a ripple effect. The truth is, no game with several classes and stats, hundreds of spells and items be as well balanced as a game of rock paper scissors. There are too many factors to fine tune. The problem is compounded by the X factor which is human ingenuity. No matter how hard programmers try to balance and tune a game some kid will come along and find and exploit or why the latest patch just made his class the best. Its a given in a population of hundreds of thousands of people.
So after the release of kunark and velious with many changes like more races and classes and spells and other factors to complicate the tuning of the game there was the advent of the uberguild. Uberguilds soon became the most vocal members of the EQ community which is dangerous because they also represented and small minority. They demanded more content to satisfy their huge appetite. Soon Sony realized their fanbase was addicted. The people who played EQ were no different than a dogs with meat dangled in front of them.
With this new philosophy Sony changed the size of the meat and the length at which it dangled. They added tons of content with rediculous rewards with the backdrop of a roleplaying story to keep true to its roots. Content was pushed out before it was finished because execs knew people would buy it anyway. They didn't care they had a poor product as long as they were, "Striking when the anvil was hot." This is the formula they have today and its very effective with half a million subscribers; most of whom will probably never see endgame content. Nick Yee goes into a whole reason for its effectiveness calling EQ the "Virtual Skinner Box" (www.NickYee.com <http://www.NickYee.com>; for more info).
Somewhere along the line Brad McQuaids idea for a fun game became distorted. EQ is still a good game, i played it for about 2 years and would go back if not for potentially better games on the horizon. The main problem with EQ was that the destination became more fun then the journey. More people wanted to walk around with an epic weapon and kill gods than lead a small raid with their friends in a newbie zone. The key to fixing this is with an immersive story line, questing, instancing to minimize player confrontation, and simplicity in factors affecting class/race balancing. So far i've seen a lot of this in WoW. Hopefully when you turn 60 in WoW you'll say, "this was fun, but i really want to make a new character so i can go through all those cool lvl 30 quests i missed, or see what the Horde has to offer." This way instead of extending the endgame you bring the game full circle expanding itself infinitely.
I came up with this idea as i read some previous posters poor arguments, critical ideas, and just generally, "Hateing the game and not the player."
--------------------------------------
I got this from a different forum discussing EQ. I am coming to the conclusion that though EQII will boast better graphics, and be a big hit for the company SOE, I believe WoW will be a overall more "fun" experience. Diverse races and classes, huge storyline to build upon, (inferior to EQII) yet creative graphics, pvp and pve, and plenty of time for the beta and programmers to tweak and make the WoW experience to be a winner.
I don't think EQII will bomb. But I think my money is better spent w/ WoW.
God is a comedian playing to an audience that is too afraid to laugh.
This coming from someone who refused to play EQ2 because dark elves could become rangers. Not more than a few months ago. What a blatant fanboy zombie.
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Rangers&message.id=1000&highlight=kptone#M1000
Quit pissing people off and quit threatening to kill people or you will regret it. Ex: "Leave ur wrong and ur will die wrong. ".
will be interesting to see
Sensei Airdrawn Daggr - Lizard Transcendant
Venerable Piocar Ibizahippie - Wood Elf Storm Warden
EQ - Innoruuk Server
Sensei Airdrawn Daggr - Lizard Transcendant
Venerable Piocar Ibizahippie - Wood Elf Storm Warden
EQ - Innoruuk Server
Right now all Everquest 2 is going on is Everquest.. They know people know Everquest, they know people know it was one of the best if not the best MMORPG at one point, and that's all they they are relying on.
Oh, and there superior graphics, the only game that i saw that was near Everquest was Warhammer online and judgeing by this www.warhammeronline.com i don't think they need to worry about that anymore.
http://www.shawkmachinima.tk/
you forgot something eq2 will bring to new hieghts..............
1,2 buckle my shoe 3,4 knock on the door 5,6 pick up sticks
7,8 GO AND SKATE !
without life we'd be dead.
level grinding
1,2 buckle my shoe 3,4 knock on the door 5,6 pick up sticks
7,8 GO AND SKATE !
without life we'd be dead.
Hmm. Have you ever played EQ? With 15 classes, SoE class balancing was (and is) a complete clusterfuck. The entire Release - Nerf - Tweak thing was policy until Gates of Discord. In Gates of Discord they decided, "Let's go the other way!" and release a Berserker who sucks and then tweak him up when we hear which direction the rants, bitches and whines are headed...
Here is an analogy for the younger folks: You are just finishing up the school year. You took 5 courses and got a D, 3 C's, and a B. You did well enough to pass but not great, so you are registering for next year and decide you should take 10 classes. I mean hell, you got a lot of experience from taking the five last year and, even though you were barely above failing in some of them you ought to do better with your added experience eh?
Well to me that is what I see with SoE having a shitload of classes LOL. They sucked keeping the 15 in EQ balanced and viable and I see some weird class up there like a Dirge with only maybe 400 people total playing it and they never do a friggen thing with it. Why should they when everyone is playing an assassin and that is where all the bitching is coming from on the boards?
Nice post Farm, certainly the Brad McQuaids and the Jeff Butlers were the cream of the crop ( www.sigilgames.com ) and the Absors are the cream of the crap.
There is certainly a a couple big, big differences between WoW and EQ2. EQ2 promises the world and you have to pull teeth to get any info out of WoW. Classes are a good example. WoW has this top secret legendary Hero thing where, at level 40 (?), you can supposedly branch out and there are many sub-classes like Arch-Druids, Mountain Kings, Arhcmages, or Demon Hunters suddenly viable. When asked at E3 they will only smile and say "we aren't releasing that info yet". Irritating.
The second big difference is this. SoE, based on past history, has no problem with slopping stuff out there that isn't finished while Blizzard takes way too long and is anal about releases. Just so you don't think I am bitter because I have a 65 Berserker who is shitty I will use another example. Velious. The ultimate mob in Velious was Kerafyrm, the Sleeper. The lore was cool but the players got their keys made too fast and were ready to tear up Sleeper's Tomb. Do some searches on the guilds who were trying to wake the Sleeper LOL before the content was finished. In some cases GM's came in and killed them all, in some cases they were able to wake him for a second until the Devs pulled the plug on the zone and he was a Giant Naked Human Model LOL. The SoE "cover your ass" tactics because the content was released and not finished is infamous in EQ circles. Go to the Fires of Heaven boards and read all the uber bitching about the Plane of Time not being done by the time the guilds got there and what they had to go through. I am sure I can think of more if I try, those are just a few examples.
Anyway. I HOPE EQ2 is a great game and I am not bashing it, just SOE who has certainly not earned my confidence with EQ and SWG. Perhaps the third time will be the charm, I don't know.
EQ1, and EQ:OA both brought me to places I have never been before, you know that place where you feel like the world you are living in is a faceless planet void of any life. Both these games just about killed the hope of any MMORPG being able to satisfy my RPG needs, and EQ2 is definatly shaping up to be something that I will in time, grow to hate. WoW is the place for me, I don't care about speaking NPCs, reading is fine with me, and to complain about such would be lazy. "Non-confrontational advancement"? I can get that from stealing candy from little kids, how will that make a game more entertaining? anyways, the 48 classes sounded sweet till I fout out it was more like 8 classes each split 6 times out to form only marginally differnt sides of the same class. Though you can say that you dirge is differnt then my happy bardish char, I still feel one in the same
Zafar Blightwing
Zafar Blightwing